Forum Settings
Forums
Pages (2) [1] 2 »
Post New Reply
#1
Jul 19, 11:43 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 617
Reaching the end of my tether with the negative attitudes. Whether it's the loli debate, feminism, moe. It's really come to a head in this last day or so. Those that follow certain Twitter circles will have been exposed to a lot of rhetoric to the tune of "KyoAni just made moetrash, no big loss" kinds of stuff. And I've seen a lot of it sometimes more subtley on Reddit, here and the chans (say what you like about the chans, it's a good indicator of what people really think, just have to downplay it in your mind a little to conpensate for the trolls).

Now, of course such sentiments are in poor taste considering the loss of life. But put that aside for a second. If no one lost their lives but an equally large amount of damage were done to the studio such that it may never recover, you can bet your ass there would be alot more of this type of rhetoric. Because that is unfortunately what many in the anime community think.

I don't want to go in to the merits of moe or the more broad topic of cute girls and romance which KyoAni is associated with. I'm a big believer that these things have a lot of deep artisitc value. Beauty, sex, romance. These are adult, real, emotional, artistic concepts which for some reason certain types of people look down on and it's sad for them and for those of us on the other side of the coin.

But as I say, I won't go too much in to that because it isn't the point of this post.

For the first time since I became an anime fan I feel genuinely disillusioned with the community to a point where it's got me down a little. I'm not one prone to dwelling on sad things, but... It's not just the moe/romance debate, but all the political stuff around anime; all the anti-this and anti-that angry nonsense that people put out there.

I make a point to be active on Twitter, supporting those I feel are positive forces in the anime community and joining in on condemning those who are anti. I have my blog which is still young but I have lots of ideas and half-finished articles supporting a more positive attitude.

But... at what point is it a better idea to just ignore all the hate and focus on enjoying the actual anime, and only engaging with those elements of the community that bring us joy?

Do we really make a difference, or just make ourselves miserable by trying to fight the haters?

(inb4: "why do you care what other people think?" The dumbest argument I hear and I'm tired of it. It's natural for someone who cares and is passionate about something to care about the perceptions within the community they spend time with and want to connect with as like-minded individuals.)
Blog homepage: http://yossanime.com/
Lastest post: Haganai: How an Ecchi Harem Romcom Became my Favorite Anime

Watching: Kamisama Dolls
Reading: Unred Night (VN)
Watching Weekly: Tejina-senpai, Kawaikereba, Takagi-san 2, Machikado Mazoku

Recently Finished: Fate UBW (9), Your Lie in April (8), Haganai (10), Fate/Extra: Last Encore (9), Saya no Uta (VN)(8), Citrus (8), Dance in the Vampire Bund (8)
 
#2
Jul 19, 11:45 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4954
YossaRedMage said:
For the first time since I became an anime fan I feel genuinely disillusioned with the community to a point where it's got me down a little.

lmao you must be newer than you try to act
 
#3
Jul 19, 11:47 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1781
People love using whatever they can get their hands on as fodder for their political and ideological viewpoints. It's about as human as it gets. But sometimes human behavior can be shitty. The people who did this won't change and so there's no reason for you to interact with them. Don't entertain toxicity.

Just focus on what brings you the most enjoyment. If more people acted like this, maybe the jackasses would get the hint and gain some self-awareness. But even if that never happens, your own enjoyment can remain intact. It's a win-win situation as far as I'm concerned.
Modified by HungryForQuality, Jul 19, 11:56 AM

 
#4
Jul 19, 11:55 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 343
I just think that there will always be all kinds of people, who think in all kinds of ways.. You can ignore them, and let them be, when not feeling like arguing with them, but just more like having good time.. At other times you can say, what you consider of more positive point of view, or how you're calling it.. Provide different interpretation or something.. Just do, what you want really.. What is it you want yourself?.. I guess, both, maybe?.. Like sometime just tired of them, so just take a break, do something else; and sometimes just wanting to say that there is another way to look at things?..
 
#5
Jul 19, 11:55 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2384
That's why I avoid political discussions. Why listen to toxic people all day to just become surrounded and eventually succumb to it myself? I'd rather just chat with people who can respect each other's ideas to a degree and have fun. That's why I like Japan more than other countries, their culture doesn't try to falter to opposing ideals that try to hate on what they do.

Also lolis are cute, leave them alone.
 
#6
Jul 19, 11:58 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 617
Manaban said:
YossaRedMage said:
For the first time since I became an anime fan I feel genuinely disillusioned with the community to a point where it's got me down a little.

lmao you must be newer than you try to act


Entry was late summer 2017 with SNK. Built up slowly from there but heavy exposure to the community with following seasonals etc... about a year. Time wise I'm new but my Japanese getting very good, I'm been to Japan and invested a lot of money in to merch. Passion is sky-high. But yeah, I'll readily admit I'm still quite new.

It's like the more you look at the communty, the more the hateful elements stick out. And now it takes up so much of fucking vision.
Blog homepage: http://yossanime.com/
Lastest post: Haganai: How an Ecchi Harem Romcom Became my Favorite Anime

Watching: Kamisama Dolls
Reading: Unred Night (VN)
Watching Weekly: Tejina-senpai, Kawaikereba, Takagi-san 2, Machikado Mazoku

Recently Finished: Fate UBW (9), Your Lie in April (8), Haganai (10), Fate/Extra: Last Encore (9), Saya no Uta (VN)(8), Citrus (8), Dance in the Vampire Bund (8)
 
#7
Jul 19, 11:58 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 274
You ask at what point is it better to ignore it. If you're feeling bogged down and you feel like you're having trouble enjoying things, then you're already passed that point. Arguing is pointless. I've learned that the hard way. I've come to learn that arguing about this kind of thing is such a waste of my time. Enjoy what you enjoy, and fuck anyone who trashes on it. Life's too short for that type of negativity.
Once you realize that what others think about what you enjoy doesn't matter, you will finally be free

 
#8
Jul 19, 12:00 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4954
YossaRedMage said:

It's like the more you look at the communty, the more the hateful elements stick out. And now it takes up so much of fucking vision.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sounds totally normal to me. This community is garbage. It doesn't even matter if social discourse is prominent in it, it's atrocious even if it's discussing things in a confined-to-fiction manner far more prominently.

Maybe the new car smell just took a long time to wear off.
 
#9
Jul 19, 12:03 PM

Offline
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 423
Can't say I disagree to be honest. MAL discussions alone can prove that.
As far as I perceive it though it's not the haters, trolls and call them what you want that should grind anyone's gears. They and their behaivour are scum to say it mildly and they probably even know that. There's no hassle to feel superior to that if you ask me.
The actual problem (and why the internet is such a shithole in almost any location) are the braindead apologists who had and have no guts to solve this problem during all those years. Instead they tell you to ignore this and "oh that's not so bad, don't make it personal" that. Great stuff we got out of that anno 2019 (and way before obviously), an internet dumpster. Lousy wimps, they'd probably advise you to ignore your bully in real life if they had the chance.

But yeah, internet sucks.
Here are your two choices imo:
Try to ignore that negativity as often as possible
OR
call them both out, haters and their shiny white knights. As they are both source of the problem.
Pick your poison.
 
Jul 19, 12:14 PM
fanservice<3

Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 9863
hey man.. theres a reason i became "famous/infamous" here

as someone who'd been watching anime for a long ass time w/o REALLY talking to others about it, i learned SO MUCH i didn't want to about it when i joined AD



while it can be said of honestly ANY community, i think nerd oriented ones are more stereotypical associated with these kinds of ppl, you know, since many of us grew up feeling alone and weak or w/e.. so so many use w/e opportunity they can to look down on others

its sad


i've just grown to accept that this types of people will ALWAYS exist, so i don't really bother arguing to the degree i used to

Modified by EcchiGodMamster, Jul 19, 12:18 PM
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines.
 
Jul 19, 12:20 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 617
CreativeNam3 said:
You ask at what point is it better to ignore it. If you're feeling bogged down and you feel like you're having trouble enjoying things, then you're already passed that point.


I think that's right. And it seems obvious now. I want to fight against the negativity but at the very least I need a break from it or some way of cutting back on exposure.
Blog homepage: http://yossanime.com/
Lastest post: Haganai: How an Ecchi Harem Romcom Became my Favorite Anime

Watching: Kamisama Dolls
Reading: Unred Night (VN)
Watching Weekly: Tejina-senpai, Kawaikereba, Takagi-san 2, Machikado Mazoku

Recently Finished: Fate UBW (9), Your Lie in April (8), Haganai (10), Fate/Extra: Last Encore (9), Saya no Uta (VN)(8), Citrus (8), Dance in the Vampire Bund (8)
 
Jul 19, 12:20 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 559
I don't like politics in anime either, but when others try and push politics into anime it is only natural for me to argue against it, which results in political debates about anime regardless.

Welcome to the forum.
 
Jul 19, 12:21 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 329
I've been in this forum since 2013, and my negativity went to the point where I just don't usually talk with people at all.
Politic discussions are the perfect example of the reason: people who scream at each other trying to prove that their opinion is the only acceptable one.

Maybe I'm too extreme, and my negaticity towards human doesn't concern the anime community alone, but I'd say that any fight is hardly worth the trouble, all the more in communities where there isn't an actual gain.
 
Jul 19, 12:21 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 617
EcchiGodMamster said:
while it can be said of honestly ANY community, i think nerd oriented ones are more stereotypical associated with these kinds of ppl, you know, since many of us grew up feeling alone and weak or w/e.. so so many use w/e opportunity they can to look down on others


Damn, that's quite insightful. Never thought about it that way before.
Blog homepage: http://yossanime.com/
Lastest post: Haganai: How an Ecchi Harem Romcom Became my Favorite Anime

Watching: Kamisama Dolls
Reading: Unred Night (VN)
Watching Weekly: Tejina-senpai, Kawaikereba, Takagi-san 2, Machikado Mazoku

Recently Finished: Fate UBW (9), Your Lie in April (8), Haganai (10), Fate/Extra: Last Encore (9), Saya no Uta (VN)(8), Citrus (8), Dance in the Vampire Bund (8)
 
Jul 19, 12:29 PM
Offline
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 245
EcchiGodMamster said:
hey man.. theres a reason i became "famous/infamous" here

as someone who'd been watching anime for a long ass time w/o REALLY talking to others about it, i learned SO MUCH i didn't want to about it when i joined AD



while it can be said of honestly ANY community, i think nerd oriented ones are more stereotypical associated with these kinds of ppl, you know, since many of us grew up feeling alone and weak or w/e.. so so many use w/e opportunity they can to look down on others

its sad


i've just grown to accept that this types of people will ALWAYS exist, so i don't really bother arguing to the degree i used to



Unrelated, but what's that little animation thingy at the bottom of your post?
 
Jul 19, 12:34 PM
Online
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 46857
i do not get the relation of moe with politics though but otherwise MAL bans politics in general except allowing some few threads (selective enforcement that even real life police does) and also current events
 
Jul 19, 12:35 PM

Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5289
YossaRedMage said:
CreativeNam3 said:
You ask at what point is it better to ignore it. If you're feeling bogged down and you feel like you're having trouble enjoying things, then you're already passed that point.


I think that's right. And it seems obvious now. I want to fight against the negativity but at the very least I need a break from it or some way of cutting back on exposure.
And this is why I don't hang out on Twitter.

See, if there's something I hate about the internet as a whole, it's that the speed of communication encourages people to communicate using short, curt, pithy statements, often designed to elicit or display emotional reactions, rather than to discuss something in a sit-down, in-depth, level-headed, comperehensive way.

Twitter's emphasis on short text messages is just one example of this.

I mean, there's a legitimate use of it, which is to get out summary information in a concise, quick manner. For example, announcements from a local police department.

But it's just a very poor choice for in-depth analytical discussion.
Modified by GlennMagusHarvey, Jul 19, 12:42 PM
 
Jul 19, 12:36 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 617
DiscoDespot said:
I don't like politics in anime either, but when others try and push politics into anime it is only natural for me to argue against it, which results in political debates about anime regardless.

I don't really think it's possible to seperate art from politics. It's more the way people use politics to criticize the art and the fans of that art, rather than discussing what the art has to say on a political topic in a more detached, less judgmental way.

I'm all up for hearing conflicting opinions about stuff when it's presented in a reasonable way that invites conversation. But when people throw out insults and labels and talk as if those on other side of the debate are the scum of the earth, it's just being toxic. And you know what? Even then, I wouldn't mind so much if it were a minority of toxic fans, but I've come to realize that there is a serious groundswell of anti mentality which makes me fear for the future of the medium.
Blog homepage: http://yossanime.com/
Lastest post: Haganai: How an Ecchi Harem Romcom Became my Favorite Anime

Watching: Kamisama Dolls
Reading: Unred Night (VN)
Watching Weekly: Tejina-senpai, Kawaikereba, Takagi-san 2, Machikado Mazoku

Recently Finished: Fate UBW (9), Your Lie in April (8), Haganai (10), Fate/Extra: Last Encore (9), Saya no Uta (VN)(8), Citrus (8), Dance in the Vampire Bund (8)
 
Jul 19, 12:41 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 617
deg said:
i do not get the relation of moe with politics though but otherwise MAL bans politics in general except allowing some few threads (selective enforcement that even real life police does) and also current events

I am using a more broad definition of politics. Kind of like 'office politics'. A power struggle between viewpoints. Moe vs anti-moe is a power struggle in the anime fandom so I would argue it falls under 'anime politics' though I may be stretching the definiton somewhat there. In any case, the more one side appears to seem like it's "winning" over the other, the more the generally percieved attitudes of the community shift a certain direction. Hence a power struggle.
Blog homepage: http://yossanime.com/
Lastest post: Haganai: How an Ecchi Harem Romcom Became my Favorite Anime

Watching: Kamisama Dolls
Reading: Unred Night (VN)
Watching Weekly: Tejina-senpai, Kawaikereba, Takagi-san 2, Machikado Mazoku

Recently Finished: Fate UBW (9), Your Lie in April (8), Haganai (10), Fate/Extra: Last Encore (9), Saya no Uta (VN)(8), Citrus (8), Dance in the Vampire Bund (8)
 
Jul 19, 12:42 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1248
I've been watching anime for years and I've managed to stay blissfully unaware of most of the bullshit and hate spread by some members of this fandom just by staying off the majority of social media platforms.
 
Jul 19, 12:43 PM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1744
YossaRedMage said:
Do we really make a difference, or just make ourselves miserable by trying to fight the haters?


Sadly, most people on the internet don't care about learning from their mistakes or changing their viewpoints when presented with information that contradicts and disproves their prior biases. They solely exist to defend "their side" regardless of how good your argument against them is.

So, you can argue with them if you want, but only if you enjoy it or are at the very least not bothered about getting into long, seemingly-pointless arguments. Otherwise, it's better to just ignore them because most of them are not willing or mentally ready to reject viewpoints that they have deeply and stupidly integrated into their actual identity.


What's the difference?
 
Jul 19, 12:47 PM
Online
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 46857
YossaRedMage said:
deg said:
i do not get the relation of moe with politics though but otherwise MAL bans politics in general except allowing some few threads (selective enforcement that even real life police does) and also current events

I am using a more broad definition of politics. Kind of like 'office politics'. A power struggle between viewpoints. Moe vs anti-moe is a power struggle in the anime fandom so I would argue it falls under 'anime politics' though I may be stretching the definiton somewhat there. In any case, the more one side appears to seem like it's "winning" over the other, the more the generally percieved attitudes of the community shift a certain direction. Hence a power struggle.


power struggle seems like regular competitive "versus" arguments of anything though that you can also apply to things like "shonen vs shojo" and etc

but ye i get that loose definition is a thing i usually do that too
 
Jul 19, 12:49 PM

Offline
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 1118
Why do you care what other people think?

It is very well known that political discussions are generally toxic.
If you don't like them you don't have to engage in them nobody is forcing you to.

Same goes for twitter if you don't like what other people there have to say or if you feel that they are being overall unjustifiably negative feel free to block them and not engage in further discussion with them.
As Lao Tzu said:
“Care about what other people think and you will always be their prisoner.”

And if your feeling down you can always watch K-ON it always cheers me up^^

X s t a s y

“I'm not crazy, my reality is just different than yours”
―Cheshire Cat

 
Jul 19, 3:11 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 7
I love people who say they don't like politics in anime but have shit like Fullmetal Alchemist, Evangelion, Lain, etc. in their favorites.
 
Jul 19, 3:21 PM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 255
SilentAlarm said:
I love people who say they don't like politics in anime but have shit like Fullmetal Alchemist, Evangelion, Lain, etc. in their favorites.


Please elaborate, I do not see the connection between those two elements.
Anime is cool but manga is too so if you read this and don't have a manga list you better start one or imma spank yo ass
 
Jul 19, 3:34 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 187
@YossaRedMage If all the infighting and haters get you down, just stick to sites, forum, posts, threads etc that are positive and don't respond to posts that are just baiting people with unpopular or vitriolic expressions on anime. This happens in all circles of life, not just anime. Personally I've always found people in the anime community very positive, but then I haven't been on MAL long and before that I didn't often venture onto forums etc.

If it's really getting you down, cut it out your life and focus on your passion for anime and those around you who do support you in a positive way.
 
Jul 19, 4:13 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4415
First, about the anime community in general:

The anime community is a very weird place to be, tbh.
I met like some of the best and the worst people there, from personal experience.

The one part I met at cons etc are great people, open-minded, empathic, modern and some are very artistic or in their own / in a very good way very individualistic and self-confident... here it means they know who they are and what they like.

Then, there are these people, who are not only introverts, but anti-social to a point of becoming negative "nerd stereotypes". Especially guys of these types had been disrespectful and creepy, because they didn't know what's an okay thing to do.
I also guess these people grewing up as outsiders, but some grow out of it and others don't. They thought, the majority of the community will accept them / be like them and then they are disappointed, because they thought "everyone is so 'different' here, most people also don't have a spouse and other ambitions or jobs to do."
At least, here in the community I see that most people are indeed pretty ordinary in that way, that they have jobs, ambitions and social circles.
The others might get angry, because they are outsiders AGAIN, in a community where they only expected to see nerds like themselves, but iR they mainly meet people in the community, who got their life together (at least overall). Someone said something similar to me.
They will flock with people, who think in similar ways too and so their opinions etc become more extreme. It happens all the time, when you only listen to your own opinion being echoed all the time.

More to the actual topic:
The one thing is that everyone is kind of a jerk and is at least a little bit egocentric and self-absorbed. It's impossible to take everyone else feelings and tastes in consideration all the time. It's too much for a brain to manage ALL the time. Everyone is self-absorbed to some degree, because everyone only knows their own point of view on a very personal level. You can't go into someone else head for one day.
Then you are saying "this is shit", "There should be less of... because I hate it." If you think about it, you theoretically could ignore stuff that just doesn't appeal to your taste and you don't have some good reasons.
Some people's egocentrism goes that far that they will value the lives of the deceased artists based in their work. Or they will value their artistic value based on their own taste... which is still better than basing the artists' lives on it.

The second thing is like what @EcchiGodMamster said. Also, even if you don't have an extra reason, I think EVERYONE tries to downplay others sometimes. That's... human nature, but at least you should try to do it less.

The third option is that some people are just edgy and might troll or they actually think an edgy viewpoint makes them so different and more interesting than everyone else, like "you dumb sheeps have empathy with them, I don't have any and I don't care about list lives", I often read that.
A FEW others actually made suffer from personality disorders that don't allow them to understand a lot of feelings and manners and feeling them for themselves.
 
Jul 19, 4:32 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 66
Anime has always been a fun hobby for me. In order to keep it that way, I mostly ignore anything that starts to make it feel stressful or unpleasant. That includes a lot of stupid fan-created drama and nastiness. I just don't need it. I'm into anime for the anime. For the most part, I try to engage with other fans only if and when it adds to the experience for me.

The haters want your attention. They want to argue. They want people to spend their time and energy telling them how and why they're wrong. By engaging with fans who do nothing but spout hate and negativity, or who intentionally say shocking things to see how many people they can rile up, you're playing right into their hands and encouraging them to continue. Nothing good can come from paying any attention to these people, especially if it's starting to get you down.
 
Jul 19, 5:56 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4100
YossaRedMage said:
I make a point to be active on Twitter, supporting those I feel are positive forces in the anime community and joining in on condemning those who are anti. I have my blog which is still young but I have lots of ideas and half-finished articles supporting a more positive attitude.
so you're a part of the cancer problem right there, YOU condemn other and come here and bitch abt negativity and politics?
YossaRedMage said:
But... at what point is it a better idea to just ignore all the hate and focus on enjoying the actual anime, and only engaging with those elements of the community that bring us joy?
well your way past that point now, the correct answer is well u can start new but its the beginning.
 
Jul 19, 6:08 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 33
The thread title seems misleading; if you're just tired of plain old internet toxicity then I'm very much with you, but I don't see the merit in conflating toxicity and politics in general.

Politics is dumb but important. It's not supposed to be fun, in fact it oftentimes is immensely tiring and depressing, but that's just part of being an adult: we do it because it has to be done. I am all for spreading more positivity, but it's not as simple as you portray it: it's not like there are these nice apolitical people spreading pure positivity on one side and those pesky political trolls who are anti-everything on the other. Many people have no choice but to engage in politics actively, and pretty much everyone engages in it at least passively, whether they know it or not. The important thing is that political discourse has to be done in good faith. This is of course easier said than done, but that's what we should strive for. We can't let trolls and bad faith actors claim something as important as politics. Call them by what they are: toxic people, and as far as my own experience goes, most of them don't have a very developed political consciousness.

And yes, politics also affects art/entertainment in myriads of ways, and pushing back against political discourse therein is itself a highly political stance. I fully understand being "tired of politics", and it's totally okay if you want to stay away from political discussions on the internet and just want to watch some K-On! to relax or whatever (I certainly do that from time to time myself). But the moment you criticize other people for being political, you are taking a political side—the one that supports the status quo, the one that doesn't think art should be held to a higher standard, the one that allows itself to be easily exploited by political actors pretending to be apolitical.

To quote Julian Minci from Legend of the Galactic Heroes (a series I love despite not aligning perfectly with my own politics):

Politics always takes vengeance on those who belittle it.
Currently playing: Persona 3 FES, Subarashiki Hibi ~Furenzoku Sonzai~
 
Jul 20, 12:09 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1085
Don't watch Dougram, I am warning you. If LOTGH is about ww1 politics, Dougram goes deeper into post-ww2 more complex politics and military warfare
 
Jul 20, 12:15 AM
Otaku

Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 733
maybe take the internet not so seriously
i was gunna come in and fuck around
but honestly i don't even feel like it
"KyoAni just made moetrash, no big loss"
is something i'd say but i love the shit that they make so honestly can't bring myself to troll
with everything going on, it's probably a little normal to feel a little down
the world's a shitty place, if you're feeling down cause of what keyboard warriors are saying
just get off the internet and go do something productive, you'll feel better.
promise
“The world is full of nice people. If you can't find one, be one.”
― Nishan Panwar
8=D ~ O:
 
Jul 20, 12:19 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5001
BiDiGiN said:
SilentAlarm said:
I love people who say they don't like politics in anime but have shit like Fullmetal Alchemist, Evangelion, Lain, etc. in their favorites.


Please elaborate, I do not see the connection between those two elements.


Because they are some of the most political anime around and literally contain politics in the anime. XD

Attack on Titan, Gundam, Death Note, Welcome to the NHK, Code Geass, Rose of Versailles, Legend of the Galactic Heroes

I mean NHK is pretty much just really well done propaganda.

Modified by Energetic-Nova, Jul 20, 12:24 AM
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Jul 20, 12:49 AM
Offline
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1
Politics is generally a tiresome subject, but it impacts all of us. That said, most political takes on cartoons and cultural analyses of them usually are just to support an overly political agenda.

Basically, don't shove out all political talks around shows, but also come to your own conclusion about what shows have to say.
 
Jul 20, 1:01 AM
Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 501
Honestly, I can understand where you are coming from. There are times when I'm disappointed with the anime community (and sometimes people in general) too. There are some things that I don't agree with but my main purpose for watching anime is to enjoy it, not hate on it.

I am a debater though. I love stating my opinion and having mature conversations with people who have different opinions. I absolutely do not condone needless insults though. Those are annoying and they start issues that shouldn't have been started in the first place. So, when something just really annoys you, THAT is when you just enjoy the anime and ignore the negativity.

In some cases, people can learn from certain things but it can honestly be very time consuming and even stressful trying to convince other people.

I don't hate politics but it pops up everywhere... Certain situations in anime and other media just cross a line for some people and then the arguments start. Heck, even I fall into the arguments sometimes, especially when it's about certain serious topics (usually never anime related).

When I want a break from it all though...I just stay away from the forums and comments and put on an anime that makes me laugh. We all need a break occasionally.
Modified by Sakurai_Aoi, Jul 20, 1:07 AM
 
Jul 20, 1:29 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 24424
Politics is necessary, but what comes out of it if nobody thinks hard for the people? War or conflict. Between war and peace, there are people getting killed and it's okay because it weren't us? It's a constant struggle to incite or persuade but yeah take a break if you think it's too much.

Those with money can just incite people with their influence and to find good leader who don't abuse power is hard so like it or not politics shouldn't be totally ignored. With that said, I come here for anime but yeah I just disregard the propaganda that comes with it because I know where I stand.
 
Jul 20, 5:52 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 255
Energetic-Nova said:
BiDiGiN said:


Please elaborate, I do not see the connection between those two elements.


Because they are some of the most political anime around and literally contain politics in the anime. XD

Attack on Titan, Gundam, Death Note, Welcome to the NHK, Code Geass, Rose of Versailles, Legend of the Galactic Heroes

I mean NHK is pretty much just really well done propaganda.



I think you misunderstood the OP, yes those anime contains politics but what YossaRedMage tries to say is he doesn't like IRL politics about anime, here in this case the views on Kyoto Animation studio's arson. People had different reactions, some being positive and some being negative, YossaRedMage being on the positive side.

He doesn't understand why people can be on the negative side, considering that people died (forever, those persons aren't coming back, they lost their futures and relatives lost them, those ppl saying that kinda shit are stupid to the core). And he realized that some of those KyoAni haters are more sensible than others and won't declare their satisfaction with the arson (because they aren't stupid to the core), so if the accident didn't kill anyone he believes that people would have been more present on social medias to declare their joy with the arson considering that in their opinion the studio only makes "moe" and whatever term used in a negative connotation. He disagrees with the opinions of KyoAni haters and realizes that the "anime community" (I dunno how to say it another way, this is a horrible term but whatever) has a lot of negativism and that it is not only related to the incident, he thinks ppl should go on social media to spread positivity to what you like and not spread negativity about something even though you dislike/hate it which in some way is politics because opinions are confronting.

Not sure if this is exactly what he meant, but that's what I understood. Misunderstandings happen, hope this block of text helped you.
Anime is cool but manga is too so if you read this and don't have a manga list you better start one or imma spank yo ass
 
Jul 20, 6:40 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 617
So I receieved a message about something I mentioned in my OP here. Was from what looks like a throwaway account that isn't accepting replies so I guess I wasted my time replying to it. Not wanting the reply to go to waste, I will post the message and my reply here.

By the way, I haven't been keeping up with this thread since yesterday to avoid any negativity, but it's good to see some conversation taking plaace.

Anyway, here's the mesage I received:

Why exactly did you mention feminism in your recent thread? Nothing else you wrote after that had anything to do with it, so I've no idea if you're blaming something that is irrelevant, or bastards who support the arsonist somehow convinced you to blame something.


And my reponse:

First of all I'm not really talking about the people who 'supported' the arsonist. I think the amount of people thart actually think llike and aren't trolling are very few. And this isn't about the loss of life, it's about the loss of a studio (or at least damage to it) that produces a certain type of anime, namely moe/romance. My issue is with the amount of people who think the loss of a moe/romance studio isn't a big deal because those genres/tropes etc. are lesser.

But beyond that, I was making a general point about all the toxic "anti" attitudes in the community. And some of those attitudes come from modern feminism which is very sex-negative. Any show of skin or prtrayal of phsycial feminine beauty, especially when the girls are young and at the peak of their beauty, is seen as bad.

You might think it's uinfair to generalize but feminism has become a problem in the west and I'm far form alone in thinking that. There may be many reasaonable, sex-positive, open-minded, liberated feminists out there, but they aren't the ones with the microphones. They aren't the ones with the influence.

You can debate me on this stuff if you want, though I usually prefer to do it publicly where many people will see what I have to say. Either way, I'm just explaining why I brought up feminism in that post. I hope the explanation was satisfactory.


Once again, I'm not following this thread so won't engage in debates about the feminism stuff, but if others want to then go for it.
Blog homepage: http://yossanime.com/
Lastest post: Haganai: How an Ecchi Harem Romcom Became my Favorite Anime

Watching: Kamisama Dolls
Reading: Unred Night (VN)
Watching Weekly: Tejina-senpai, Kawaikereba, Takagi-san 2, Machikado Mazoku

Recently Finished: Fate UBW (9), Your Lie in April (8), Haganai (10), Fate/Extra: Last Encore (9), Saya no Uta (VN)(8), Citrus (8), Dance in the Vampire Bund (8)
 
Jul 20, 7:35 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5001
BiDiGiN said:
Energetic-Nova said:


Because they are some of the most political anime around and literally contain politics in the anime. XD

Attack on Titan, Gundam, Death Note, Welcome to the NHK, Code Geass, Rose of Versailles, Legend of the Galactic Heroes

I mean NHK is pretty much just really well done propaganda.



I think you misunderstood the OP, yes those anime contains politics but what YossaRedMage tries to say is he doesn't like IRL politics about anime, here in this case the views on Kyoto Animation studio's arson. People had different reactions, some being positive and some being negative, YossaRedMage being on the positive side.

He doesn't understand why people can be on the negative side, considering that people died (forever, those persons aren't coming back, they lost their futures and relatives lost them, those ppl saying that kinda shit are stupid to the core). And he realized that some of those KyoAni haters are more sensible than others and won't declare their satisfaction with the arson (because they aren't stupid to the core), so if the accident didn't kill anyone he believes that people would have been more present on social medias to declare their joy with the arson considering that in their opinion the studio only makes "moe" and whatever term used in a negative connotation. He disagrees with the opinions of KyoAni haters and realizes that the "anime community" (I dunno how to say it another way, this is a horrible term but whatever) has a lot of negativism and that it is not only related to the incident, he thinks ppl should go on social media to spread positivity to what you like and not spread negativity about something even though you dislike/hate it which in some way is politics because opinions are confronting.

Not sure if this is exactly what he meant, but that's what I understood. Misunderstandings happen, hope this block of text helped you.


Not really politics tho. Politics is like the political people of Japans trying to bend the tragedy to their own messages against otaku and foreigners. And yeah, that is happening in the Japanese media. lol.

People being trolls =/= politics.
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Jul 20, 7:48 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1441
1 - The community is thrash, or at least most of it. No surprise there.
2 - What happened was sad, because people died. I don't give a fuck about the studio, I do care for the people.
3 - Everything is replaceable, so even if KyoAni nevers recovers a new studio with the same niche will appear. Especially considering that people is what makes a studio, they have to work at some moment.
4 - Stop getting seriously tired about meaningless stuff.
 
Jul 20, 8:16 AM
Offline
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 7
I definitely agree w the part about people saying it's not a loss. I mean I don't enjoy mecha but i know alot of people do so I never would say mecha is trash because I know that's a personal taste. I think people are super self important so when things don't pertain to them they think its alright to disrespect or say it's ok to do without. But that's my opinion on it. I rarely even enter discussions anymore bc people don't seem to think rationally or they are so biased it's hard to communicate a point. But you have to wonder when you start replicating the process by "calling out the haters" you then become a hater yourself.
 
Jul 20, 8:56 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5289
I'd like to take a moment to connect this thread and that thread about calling other people's tastes "shit taste".
 
Jul 20, 9:25 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 18017
There is TPO for everything. You can discuss anything all you want but choose an appropriate place to do so.
"Kickstarter for Rokujouma physical book will be live this fall. Be sure to back it up guys."
 
Jul 20, 9:30 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1594
Well welcome to fandoms I guess, they're basically all like this. I also think it's pretty reprehensible people are using this tragic event as a vehicle to brag about their taste in anime. Its pathetic.

Not getting how that's related to feminism tho. Sounds like you might be getting a bit over emotional op.

Sometimes it's best to take a step back from these things. Especially now in the wake of an actual tragedy. It's easy to get overwhelmed.
Modified by simonephone, Jul 20, 10:11 AM
come with me empty human
 
Jul 20, 10:01 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2239
People on the internet are disrespectful in general so I'm surprised I haven't seen more of the negativity you mentioned. It's depressing to think about it. If this is the first time you really got disappointed in the anime community then you have some high tolerance towards such things because even if not as bad as soccer hooligans some fans do take it a bit too serious. I do however hope to encounter others who are positive voices in the community.
 
Jul 20, 10:06 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2891
Stay the fuck away from Twitter and you'll be a much happier person.

And I'm not saying that to appear "edgy" or even to bait others. I genuinely mean it. That place is not good for your mental health.
1 hour = 10,000 yen.
2 hours = 20,000 yen.
3 hours = 3 loaves of French bread.
4 hours = 4 loaves of French bread.
 
Jul 20, 10:12 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 1488
YossaRedMage said:

But... at what point is it a better idea to just ignore all the hate and focus on enjoying the actual anime, and only engaging with those elements of the community that bring us joy?


At what point? How about all the time. Just focus on watching anime and discussing about anime. I don't really care about all those insecurity of feminist/SJW's or whatever political influence on anime. Remember, arguing in the internet is useless. Don't waste too much of your time in Twitter, Reddit, internet etc.


My Wife is a Demon Queen
 
Jul 20, 10:45 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1147
Maneki-Mew said:
First, about the anime community in general:

The anime community is a very weird place to be, tbh.
I met like some of the best and the worst people there, from personal experience.

The one part I met at cons etc are great people, open-minded, empathic, modern and some are very artistic or in their own / in a very good way very individualistic and self-confident... here it means they know who they are and what they like.

Then, there are these people, who are not only introverts, but anti-social to a point of becoming negative "nerd stereotypes". Especially guys of these types had been disrespectful and creepy, because they didn't know what's an okay thing to do.
I also guess these people grewing up as outsiders, but some grow out of it and others don't. They thought, the majority of the community will accept them / be like them and then they are disappointed, because they thought "everyone is so 'different' here, most people also don't have a spouse and other ambitions or jobs to do."
At least, here in the community I see that most people are indeed pretty ordinary in that way, that they have jobs, ambitions and social circles.
The others might get angry, because they are outsiders AGAIN, in a community where they only expected to see nerds like themselves, but iR they mainly meet people in the community, who got their life together (at least overall). Someone said something similar to me.
They will flock with people, who think in similar ways too and so their opinions etc become more extreme. It happens all the time, when you only listen to your own opinion being echoed all the time.

More to the actual topic:
The one thing is that everyone is kind of a jerk and is at least a little bit egocentric and self-absorbed. It's impossible to take everyone else feelings and tastes in consideration all the time. It's too much for a brain to manage ALL the time. Everyone is self-absorbed to some degree, because everyone only knows their own point of view on a very personal level. You can't go into someone else head for one day.
Then you are saying "this is shit", "There should be less of... because I hate it." If you think about it, you theoretically could ignore stuff that just doesn't appeal to your taste and you don't have some good reasons.
Some people's egocentrism goes that far that they will value the lives of the deceased artists based in their work. Or they will value their artistic value based on their own taste... which is still better than basing the artists' lives on it.

The second thing is like what @EcchiGodMamster said. Also, even if you don't have an extra reason, I think EVERYONE tries to downplay others sometimes. That's... human nature, but at least you should try to do it less.

The third option is that some people are just edgy and might troll or they actually think an edgy viewpoint makes them so different and more interesting than everyone else, like "you dumb sheeps have empathy with them, I don't have any and I don't care about list lives", I often read that.
A FEW others actually made suffer from personality disorders that don't allow them to understand a lot of feelings and manners and feeling them for themselves.


No see, what is happening is that you have normies that want to think of themselves as "quirky." Oh anime looks kind of cool to me. But you don't want to endure the stigma that actually being weird gives you. Such as being unable to have a dating life for years on end because you're too awkward or living with social anxiety. You don't want to be "one of those weirdo weeaboos" or for people to think you are one.

I don't mind anime being a bit stigmatized because I didn't join this forum and I don't want to go to anime cons and interact with normal people. I am here for the lolicons, the shut-ins who don't leave their house or apartment for days, the people who randomly insert Japanese words into English sentences, and the guy who has been unironically dating his body pillow for the past two years.
 
Jul 20, 10:51 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 161
YossaRedMage said:
Reaching the end of my tether with the negative attitudes. Whether it's the loli debate, feminism, moe. It's really come to a head in this last day or so. Those that follow certain Twitter circles will have been exposed to a lot of rhetoric to the tune of "KyoAni just made moetrash, no big loss" kinds of stuff. And I've seen a lot of it sometimes more subtley on Reddit, here and the chans (say what you like about the chans, it's a good indicator of what people really think, just have to downplay it in your mind a little to conpensate for the trolls).

Now, of course such sentiments are in poor taste considering the loss of life. But put that aside for a second. If no one lost their lives but an equally large amount of damage were done to the studio such that it may never recover, you can bet your ass there would be alot more of this type of rhetoric. Because that is unfortunately what many in the anime community think.

I don't want to go in to the merits of moe or the more broad topic of cute girls and romance which KyoAni is associated with. I'm a big believer that these things have a lot of deep artisitc value. Beauty, sex, romance. These are adult, real, emotional, artistic concepts which for some reason certain types of people look down on and it's sad for them and for those of us on the other side of the coin.

But as I say, I won't go too much in to that because it isn't the point of this post.

For the first time since I became an anime fan I feel genuinely disillusioned with the community to a point where it's got me down a little. I'm not one prone to dwelling on sad things, but... It's not just the moe/romance debate, but all the political stuff around anime; all the anti-this and anti-that angry nonsense that people put out there.

I make a point to be active on Twitter, supporting those I feel are positive forces in the anime community and joining in on condemning those who are anti. I have my blog which is still young but I have lots of ideas and half-finished articles supporting a more positive attitude.

But... at what point is it a better idea to just ignore all the hate and focus on enjoying the actual anime, and only engaging with those elements of the community that bring us joy?

Do we really make a difference, or just make ourselves miserable by trying to fight the haters?

(inb4: "why do you care what other people think?" The dumbest argument I hear and I'm tired of it. It's natural for someone who cares and is passionate about something to care about the perceptions within the community they spend time with and want to connect with as like-minded individuals.)


Outside of your general opinion on the studios route (which anyone can have), you should by no means express them as a way to minimize their deaths or offend people on such a tragic event, it's just plain disgusting, that is true.
 
Jul 20, 10:57 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 608
The thing is, as I've seen pointed out here by others on multiple occasions in recent days with the threads about people liking or disliking anime as a whole or how to best try to get people into anime, anime is a medium. It isn't a genre and it isn't a lifestyle. As such, the amount of people with different backgrounds, lifestyles, other tastes, political or religious views, etc. who are going to be into some of it and by extension "part of the anime community" is truly a massive broad brush sample that cuts across a lot of different shades of humanity.

On one hand, many of those of us, myself included, who've increasingly turned to it as a bastion of great storytelling, are overjoyed to find some fellowship and people to just discuss and share appreciation with in an anime community. On the other hand, this community, here, on the social media webpages, or any other site, is the opposite of homogeneous. It's a patchwork of different personalities with different beliefs and different tastes. The medium is vast enough to accommodate them all, but they're all not going to get on well with each other. Hence the bickering and factionalism.

Some people like anime but only one aspect of it, to the exclusion and even hatred of other aspects, so they want anime as a whole to universally reflect and embody that one treasured aspect for them and stamp out the others as aberrations and deviancy. They want to have a bigger say over the flow of content, or at least how it's received critically. These busybodies have always existed to try to police Western animation and live action filmmaking too, and are still around today doing the same thing as we speak in the other mediums.

So I don't see the clash as between people who love Slice of Life shows featuring middle school girls baking muffins and those who want battle shounen or psychological thrillers, since you can love all for different reasons and even if you only like one or a few, it doesn't necessitate wanting to see the others erased from anime. It's more between people/factions who want anime to embody and conform to their ideal and those who want it to remain as open and diverse as possible.

Western liberals claim to love diversity, but tend to only want their own beliefs and value systems reflected and to call that diversity, and are as quick to regard anything giving a voice to non-politically-approved relations, lifestyles, or actions (age gap or incestuous romances, for example) as degeneracy and abhorrent and in need of blacklisting as quick as any fundamentalist Christian or Muslim. Then you have the far-right, who tend to be a lot of autistic otakus (I know because I'm also one and hold a lot of views that would be considered rightist), who tend to have a very specific and idiosyncratic vision of what they believe anime should be and tend to want to enforce that on everyone and weed out its perceived aberrant strains in the name of upholding art and culture. These people are not as brainwashed as normie liberals since a lot of their views inherently go against the grain of the society they live in in the first place, but they can be just as rigid and ruthless in their thinking and calculations once selecting an ideology for themselves.

 
Top
Pages (2) [1] 2 »