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What would be the proper duration for training arcs?

#1
Jul 18, 4:25 PM
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This came to my mind when I was remembering how rushed was the training of Taichi and Rin in the second episode of Isekai Cheat Magician. Of course they had broken stats, but it still feels rushed. On the other hand, the training of Goku to master the Kaio Ken at the beginning of Dragon Ball Z was longer and thus more significant, but it feels quite stretched.

So what would be the proper amount of episodes for characters training to master a power?
 
#2
Jul 18, 4:54 PM
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There is no proper duration. What you can do is debate over the context of an existing story and see what you could retroactively improve, otherwise it's entirely how you write it.



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#3
Jul 18, 5:49 PM

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I cant give an exact number of episode, but I think a good 'training arc' should consist of giving some sort of explanation of said power gain kinda like how Naruto did when he learned rasengan. The way he learned it and the show itself explaining how he did it was satisfying to watch. I felt like I grew with Naruto watching that.

You can then compare that to series that just have a tons of episode dedicated to show the MC punching boulders and walks out a forest with scraps and scratches ten episodes later saying " yes I finally master it" is just cheap and boring imo.
 
#4
Jul 18, 6:03 PM
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Lunilah said:
There is no proper duration. What you can do is debate over the context of an existing story and see what you could retroactively improve, otherwise it's entirely how you write it.
If you write a training to be done in just one episode it will feel cheap because the ability mastering was easily achieved. If on the other hand you write a training to be done in 10 episodes for example, it feels significant because in this case the ability was not easily mastered. So altough there is not an exact duration, definitely there is criteria to know if it was done properly.
 
#5
Jul 18, 6:06 PM
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PedroBV96 said:
Lunilah said:
There is no proper duration. What you can do is debate over the context of an existing story and see what you could retroactively improve, otherwise it's entirely how you write it.
If you write a training to be done in just one episode it will feel cheap because the ability mastering was easily achieved. If on the other hand you write a training to be done in 10 episodes for example, it feels significant because in this case the ability was not easily mastered. So altough there is not an exact duration, definitely there is criteria to know if it was done properly.
Midoriya's 10 months of training was done in 1 or 2 episodes, and it facilitated the story without any problems from me.



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#6
Jul 18, 6:24 PM

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I don't think there is a proper amount of episodes. There were some training sessions that lasted months in story time, but only 1 episode irl, and I'm cool with that. Working out can be boring at times, so a little montage to cut out unnecessary parts is fine. There are other times where it takes a character 3-4 arcs to master one ability, and that's okay too. It may be long, but it adds credibility to the ability.

I personally prefer some sign of hard work and effort, but there are people opposite of me who probably wouldn't care if the character was a natural. At the end of think it depends on the person and the state in which it was handled.
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#7
Jul 18, 6:27 PM

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At max, 1 episode. I hate training arc.
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#8
Jul 18, 9:02 PM

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Personally I think they should be long, because I like to feel like I have actually understood the character's growth and journey towards getting stronger. Having them get stronger off-screen and then the author saying, "They're stronger now. Just take my word for it" doesn't really feel satisfying to me. The best training arcs also have a story to them rather than just showing the characters perform mindless and repetitive acts over and over.


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#9
Jul 19, 12:49 AM

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No limit really, though it does need at least one montage per episode. Also if it's a shounen they have to complete their training 30x faster then normal people because yeah.
 
Jul 19, 12:53 AM

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To be honest, I want to see a long and entertaining training arc. The ones we know of only either last 2-3 episodes (or 3 quarters of a volume) or done entirely off-screen.
 
Jul 19, 12:56 AM

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Just one episode, I'd rather train myself or get someone to scold me to train rather than watching it longer than necessary.
 
Jul 19, 1:39 AM

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1- 3 episodes, or a quick 1 minute training montage. I don't mind really, it depends on the series.
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Jul 19, 8:00 AM
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CHLO_JO007 said:
I don't think there is a proper amount of episodes. There were some training sessions that lasted months in story time, but only 1 episode irl, and I'm cool with that. Working out can be boring at times, so a little montage to cut out unnecessary parts is fine. There are other times where it takes a character 3-4 arcs to master one ability, and that's okay too. It may be long, but it adds credibility to the ability.

I personally prefer some sign of hard work and effort, but there are people opposite of me who probably wouldn't care if the character was a natural. At the end of think it depends on the person and the state in which it was handled.


It's hard to see any sign of hard work and effort if the training is presented in just 1 episode, despite how much it lasted in story time.

Gorochu said:
At max, 1 episode. I hate training arc.


So you're in favor of making the characters masters in an instant?

fancyjasper said:
1- 3 episodes, or a quick 1 minute training montage. I don't mind really, it depends on the series.


It depends on the ability to be mastered. The more difficult, the longer should be the time invested in presenting how the character master it.
 
Jul 19, 8:06 AM
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The less the better. Training arcs are some of the most pointless and boring segments of any anime. Yeah of course the characters need to get stronger but none of that is usually of any actual interest to watch for the viewers so if you ask me they could just fast forward through that as much as they want

I mean imagine that you're a fan of a football club. You follow all their matches with great interest. But how many people would seriously say they're gonna actually watch footage of their training sessions in-between matches? Probably almost no one because it really isn't very interesting to watch for anyone

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Jul 19, 8:09 AM

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There isn't a proper duration for a training arc. However, I really liked how Shippuden managed the training of Naruto. Both the Rasen-shuriken training and the Sennin mode training.
 
Jul 19, 10:29 AM
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HaXXspetten said:
The less the better. Training arcs are some of the most pointless and boring segments of any anime. Yeah of course the characters need to get stronger but none of that is usually of any actual interest to watch for the viewers so if you ask me they could just fast forward through that as much as they want

I mean imagine that you're a fan of a football club. You follow all their matches with great interest. But how many people would seriously say they're gonna actually watch footage of their training sessions in-between matches? Probably almost no one because it really isn't very interesting to watch for anyone
So you think Goku's training to master Kaio Ken should have been presented n 1 episode?
 
Jul 19, 12:25 PM

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PedroBV96 said:
It's hard to see any sign of hard work and effort if the training is presented in just 1 episode, despite how much it lasted in story time.


That's just your opinion. It's not impossible, and not as hard as you think. Again, just because you're seeing it in 20-30 minutes doesn't mean it happened in 20-30 minutes. Someone above mentioned My Hero as a good example of a short, but good quality training session. One Punch Man is also another example of a short training montage that served its purpose. Also, do you realize that on a lot of days, training just means repeating the same exercise over and over until it's effortless? That's boring and unnecessary coverage, especially if the show's only getting 11-13 episodes.
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Jul 19, 3:37 PM
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PedroBV96 said:
HaXXspetten said:
The less the better. Training arcs are some of the most pointless and boring segments of any anime. Yeah of course the characters need to get stronger but none of that is usually of any actual interest to watch for the viewers so if you ask me they could just fast forward through that as much as they want

I mean imagine that you're a fan of a football club. You follow all their matches with great interest. But how many people would seriously say they're gonna actually watch footage of their training sessions in-between matches? Probably almost no one because it really isn't very interesting to watch for anyone
So you think Goku's training to master Kaio Ken should have been presented n 1 episode?
I don't watch Dragon Ball so I can't really give you a proper answer there. But my point was rather that if you're gonna have training arcs then it should be presented in a way which actually feels like unique and interesting content story-wise. Not just the same old stereotypical shounen formula where it just goes through the same routines over and over again

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Jul 19, 4:00 PM

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They should be short ir skipped altogether.

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Jul 19, 4:15 PM

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i think training arcs work best when they are not presented as the main focus of the show, but rather a subplot. if training is a minor element that is featured consistently for 10+ episodes rather than the main focus of 1-3, the progression feels more significant because it took a longer time in actual minutes of anime from start to finish. also, training isn't super enjoyable on its own, so it should be blended with the more interesting plot elements to preserve the momentum of the story and the viewers' interest.
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Jul 19, 4:19 PM

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I like short training arcs, but I like it more, when training is mentioned here and there, because that how it works. You can't do excessively sports for one week and then you are fit for the rest of your life lol.
 
Jul 19, 4:28 PM

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I don't like them they are usually the most boring part of shounen so I would prefer if they would just time skip them instead.

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Jul 19, 6:48 PM
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Nick-Knight said:
They should be short ir skipped altogether.


Xstasy said:
I don't like them they are usually the most boring part of shounen so I would prefer if they would just time skip them instead.


Excuse me but, how would you be able to defend a character who went up in ranks from one part of the story to another, if someone says the character became more powerful out of nowhere, if you skip the training?
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Jul 19, 7:06 PM
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I prefer 1-2 eps for short anime. Training arcs usually only occur in long shounen though so I'd say 10 eps at max. I feel like, at that point, it'd get tiring.
Training arcs are only used to boost the MC's strength in a short amount of time. So I think being over 2 eps is fine because the MC can't just double his mf power in the span of a few eps (unless it's a short anime ofc)
 
Jul 19, 7:11 PM

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I think that the trainings Musashi went through in Vagabond before important fights were really well done and were more than just training to become stronger but also kind of understanding why you're training and what you're doing. To make a good training arc it doesn't only have to be hard work, it also has to feel like viewer understands the growth of the character through his training. It can be done shorty, altough I think it is harder to convey the character's growth through his training in 1 episodes than in like a small arc. In the end, the duration all depends.
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Jul 19, 7:15 PM

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Dolabella said:
i think training arcs work best when they are not presented as the main focus of the show, but rather a subplot. if training is a minor element that is featured consistently for 10+ episodes rather than the main focus of 1-3, the progression feels more significant because it took a longer time in actual minutes of anime from start to finish. also, training isn't super enjoyable on its own, so it should be blended with the more interesting plot elements to preserve the momentum of the story and the viewers' interest.


Huge +1, this is how training arcs should be done.
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Jul 19, 7:18 PM
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Dolabella said:
i think training arcs work best when they are not presented as the main focus of the show, but rather a subplot. if training is a minor element that is featured consistently for 10+ episodes rather than the main focus of 1-3, the progression feels more significant because it took a longer time in actual minutes of anime from start to finish. also, training isn't super enjoyable on its own, so it should be blended with the more interesting plot elements to preserve the momentum of the story and the viewers' interest.

This is exactly what I was thinking. This is honestly the best way to do it.
 
Jul 19, 7:20 PM

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PedroBV96 said:
Nick-Knight said:
They should be short ir skipped altogether.


Xstasy said:
I don't like them they are usually the most boring part of shounen so I would prefer if they would just time skip them instead.


Excuse me but, how would you be able to defend a character who went up in ranks from one part of the story to another, if someone says the character became more powerful out of nowhere, if you skip the training?


Uhh For the love of Kami-Sama Learn2Read I said time skip them(they would happen off screen) not skip them all together.

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Jul 19, 7:39 PM

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Well depends on what you'd call 'Training'.

If you mean training as in fighting enemies and progressing the story while trying to master it through experience, I don't really care how long it takes (just don't bring it up every single time, it gets annoying).

If you mean training as in being taught by a senior/master, 1 episode with a training montage would be enough.

If you mean training as in, coming up and perfecting new moves over a long period of time, as in the case with Naruto (1 year) or One Piece (2 years), a timeskip would be the best imo.
 
Jul 19, 8:13 PM

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Gythia said:
Well depends on what you'd call 'Training'.

If you mean training as in fighting enemies and progressing the story while trying to master it through experience, I don't really care how long it takes (just don't bring it up every single time, it gets annoying).

If you mean training as in being taught by a senior/master, 1 episode with a training montage would be enough.

If you mean training as in, coming up and perfecting new moves over a long period of time, as in the case with Naruto (1 year) or One Piece (2 years), a timeskip would be the best imo.


Though timeskips aren't always appliable, as the plot can be moving forward too and you have to go through the story with the training which isn't bad in itself. Timeskips are appliable in Naruto and One Piece because there's no near enemy trying to fight the enemy, it is kind of in between arcs so it works well without disrupting its story.
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Jul 19, 8:43 PM

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Let there be a couple of episodes for that kinda thing - you can pack more in through use of montages as well LOL.

 
Jul 20, 1:19 PM
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Xstasy said:
Uhh For the love of Kami-Sama Learn2Read I said time skip them(they would happen off screen) not skip them all together.

If they happen off screen you would still have the same problem I asked. And it's actually even worse because why would you have the training to be done off screen instead of (@HaXXspetten: presenting them in a way which actually feels like unique and interesting content story-wise.)
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Jul 20, 1:26 PM

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PedroBV96 said:
Xstasy said:
Uhh For the love of Kami-Sama Learn2Read I said time skip them(they would happen off screen) not skip them all together.

If they happen off screen you would still have the same problem I asked.


No you would not. There is this thing called suspension of disbelief and time skips are already a common occurrence in shounen anime in general.

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Jul 20, 2:20 PM
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Xstasy said:

No you would not. There is this thing called suspension of disbelief and time skips are already a common occurrence in shounen anime in general.

You will end up shooting yourself in the foot if you try to use that as an excuse for how a character became more powerful without showing the training. You may dislike training arcs all you want, but they are necessary for the character power upgrade to be consistent.
 
Jul 20, 2:34 PM

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To be perfectly honest I would rather not have them there at all. They are unnecessary and always boring.
 
Jul 20, 2:45 PM

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Depends on the show. Training arcs, at least to me, are quite boring and some of the longer ones are equivalent to watching paint dry. I think as long as it's executed well and involves good content, it doesn't really matter if it's one episode or a couple. I do prefer though that it stays on the shorter side because like I said, training arcs are kind of boring..
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Jul 20, 2:59 PM
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Imaishi said:
To be perfectly honest I would rather not have them there at all. They are unnecessary and always boring.

Then you wouldn't be able to defend how a character became more powerful from one point of the story to another if someone else points out it happened out of nowhere.
 
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