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Poll: JoJo no Kimyou na Bouken Part 5: Ougon no Kaze Episode 37 Discussion


Jul 6, 11:53 AM

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Ok I undesrtood how GER Works but please,can someone explain to me how giorno got the Arrow? Did he Just picked it up from the floor or bucciarati's cloud gave it to him?
I' m confused...
EL PSY KONGROO!!!
 
Jul 6, 1:23 PM

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How gentlemanly of Bucciarati not to kill or incapacitate Diavolo's body before passing on.
Also, why isn't Mista dead yet? By stand logic shouldn't he have received all the damage from Diavolo's attack? Trish's soul might've changed bodies, but a hole in the chest is a hole in the chest.
The biggest question is why I still bother trying to understand this anime. It's all, frankly, bullshit.

BLaCkGuN69 said:
I' m confused...
You should be.
Modified by AnotherGuy, Jul 6, 1:29 PM
 
Jul 6, 1:59 PM
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PedroBV96 said:
JeXxTaR said:

No, that didn't happen in part 1, 4, 6 and 7.

Having the villain crushed by an ambulance was completely random, despite the ambulance being present at the place before it happened.


The ambulance wasn't the reason for Kira's defeat; it was only a resource to make kira's death look like a suicide from the perspective of the people who were in the place and also so that he wouldn't be identified as the hayato's father, but it's a fact that jotaro killed kira.
 
Jul 6, 2:21 PM

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RIP Bucciarati :(

Truly one of my favorite characters in the series. The amount of wits and intelligence. Truly one hell of a leader. You will be missed for sure.

Definitely my Top 5 characters for sure.

Golden Experience Requiem!!!!!

So glad we finally reach that apex!! I read the Manga last Summer (2018) around this time of last year as well.

Truly blew my mind once they shown the true power of Golden Experience Requiem.

I honestly believe this is the strongest stand out there and not even Dio's Za Warudo or Jotaro's Star Platinum would be able to touch Golden Experience Requiem.

Truly the OP of all Stands!!! Giorno is King!!!!

Still need to read Part VI and VII. I hope Jolyne will be able to top this :)

Next episode will be one final hour special. I honestly think they should have save this on the hour special. Now gonna wait for 3 weeks till we see the finale!

Amazing stuff!! Can't wait for BD for this!!!

I already plan on reading Part VI Stone Ocean after this. I just hope the adaptation of Stone Ocean will be in 2021.

Now the waiting begins!!!!!
Modified by SomaHeir, Jul 6, 2:24 PM
 
Jul 6, 3:11 PM
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Armados said:
So we're finally done with this part, as the last 2 episodes are essentially filler with the stone arc that Araki pushed in the last moment.

Atleast we're done with this part. David Production did an amazing job, but sadly it was the worst part up to date due to Araki's writing. Diavolo was the worst main antagonist, and Giorno didn't even feel like a Jojo unlike the previous 4. Most of the main cast were badly written, and only Bruno felt like a real character every once in a while.


I know anyone can have his opinión but claiming all that shit is straight up retarded.

How is Diavolo the worst antagonist? A dude who just killed 3 main characters ,has rich lore, and strong presence , cant be the Worst , specially when Kars and part 3 Dio already exist. And how in the hell aré the other characters badly written? I know Giorno can be a bit bland compared to other jojos, but Characters like Mista, Abacchio and Narancia are leagues above the likes of Kakyoin, Avdol and Iggy
.
Modified by DeepRiver, Jul 6, 4:55 PM
 
Jul 6, 4:46 PM

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Hobgoblin2099 said:
ZxI said:
i am not sure what is happening but i am enjoying it


Diavolo's mindset = Only the results matter, so King Crimson skips over everything before that point.

Giorno and Co.'s mindset = The actions you take on the way to the results are the most important point. GER prevents Diavolo from skipping to the results.

The real Gold Experience was the friends we made along the way.
 
Jul 6, 4:57 PM
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JeXxTaR said:
Armados said:

Araki repeats those mistakes on every part but part 1 (well mostly because the villain both lost and won at the same time). Every end of part villain gets fucked by several asspulls. He doesn't really know how to write a fight with an overpowered ability that would result in the user's loss through build up, and no, building up requiem arrow isn't a real build up because "lol you lost you can't do anything because I am OP" was just a random power up Araki threw to Giorno's face to end the fight asap.



No, that didn't happen in part 1, 4, 6 and 7.


I did say part 1 is excluded.
Part 4 is an asspull, Josuke survived because Okuyasu decided he doesn't want to die, and saved him before his death. It was badly written regardless because the entire cast ignored the explosions and Jotaro thought it was "the rain". Also Kira forgot about Sheer Heart Attack even though Josuke literally can't do anything to beat it.

Part 6 is also an asspull. Let's assume I agree with Jotaro's behavior (which I really don't considering how much he got lectured in past parts about letting his feelings affect his behavior and thus resulting in problems), but having 2 stands at once as an asspull, as otherwise mr.Pucci should've had way more than Whitesnake. Also Weather Report suddenly having a "secret ability" that a person who isn't its original user suddenly knows isn't an asspull...? sure.

Part 7 was also an asspull. Stuff spin so hard they ignore space and time, or move through time stop? How does that make any sense?
 
Jul 6, 5:06 PM
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DeepRiver said:
Armados said:
So we're finally done with this part, as the last 2 episodes are essentially filler with the stone arc that Araki pushed in the last moment.

Atleast we're done with this part. David Production did an amazing job, but sadly it was the worst part up to date due to Araki's writing. Diavolo was the worst main antagonist, and Giorno didn't even feel like a Jojo unlike the previous 4. Most of the main cast were badly written, and only Bruno felt like a real character every once in a while.


I know anyone can have his opinión but claiming all that shit is straight up retarded.

How is Diavolo the worst antagonist? A dude who just killed 3 main characters ,has rich lore, and strong presence , cant be the Worst , specially when Kars and part 3 Dio already exist. And how in the hell aré the other characters badly written? I know Giorno can be a bit bland compared to other jojos, but Characters like Mista, Abacchio and Narancia are leagues above the likes of Kakyoin, Avdol and Iggy
.


Part 3 DIO was badly written but was entertaining. Kars wasn't a good villian but Diavolo is just "ohohoh I am the best I deserve everything everyone should fear me ohohoh I am trying to hide my true identity I swear I am not a worse Kira Yoshikage".
How can you call Abacchio a character? He had to deal with his past which is great, but other than that he is just "shut up Giorno". I never cared about his death in the slightest, he felt like a completely flat character.
Mista and Narancia had more personality, but they still were flat. Mista was the person who gets fucked every time and saved, Araki never explored why he has 6 stands that talk with different personalities (unlike other hive-like stands that weren't the case), or why they try to imitate human behavior by asking for food. Narancia was simply dumb. The entire fight with Tiziano and Squalo was a typical "we have to dumb everyone down to make the scenario possible" and Narancia acted completely stupid even though it was his turn to shine.

Polnareff came back nerfed (because Araki likes to nerf the hell out of old characters to make newer ones shine), and his entire Requeim arc never made any sense. First of all, if he was aware of Diavolo, a stand that messes with time, and one of his best friends can freeze time, why the hell didn't he ever contact him? Diavolo never was aware of Polnareff being alive, Polnareff stated that both he and Jotaro were looking for the stand arrows, and I don't know what about you but Star Platinum Requiem wouldn't be an underpowered stand. I know Araki didn't want Jotaro in another part, but it was written badly to write Jotaro out instead of giving a real plotline behind that.

I am sorry if my taste doesn't fit yours, but part 5 felt really bland for me. Avdol is indeed a bad character, I never liked that Araki gave Iggy words to say, as I think he would've felt a way more tragic character if he would've just been a regular dog. Kakyoin is beloved because he is a meme material, and was written badly because Araki didn't know what to do with his powers or with him in general. And yet, Polnareff, Joseph and Jotaro (even though most of the part he was just an egdy yare yare kid) carried the part much more than the entire cast of part 5.

Also bad writing in general made part 5 not as enjoyable as the rest - Araki didn't decide what he wants to do with Giorno's power, throwing Fugo out of the series, Bruno dying just so he can get "ressurected" temporarly because that clearly makes sense and its not that Araki regretted killing him so early, Diavolo not killing everyone when he was capable of doing that, Diavolo having such a strong stand never thought of just randomly walking down the streets near them and killing them in a surprise attack while they were never aware of his face and look in general, or Diavolo not killing Trish instantly in the elevator instead of dragging her down for whatever reason. He wanted her dead, right? Why did he do that then? I can keep on going, many things didn't really make much sense and led to scenarios that kept me thinking "but why didn't he do that and that it would've solved his problem", instead he's monologing 3 minutes everytime about how perfect he is even though he is extremly shallow and boring.
Modified by Armados, Jul 6, 5:12 PM
 
Jul 6, 7:06 PM

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@Modernoir , I was talking about Jotaro as main JoJo, so I had Part 3 in mind. In Part 4 he was alright, well balanced and even behave properly.


Your arguments about Giorno are valid when we look at him only as a single character. He has his talents gained by living a deliquent live on the street (i.e. riding a car quite good) and he is

Two biggest problems about Giorno which justify calling him as Gary Stu are: 1) his overpowered Stand that doesn't need Requiem to have abilities that are way too powerful (in "Vento Aureo" only King Crimson is more powerful, compared to non-Requiem Golden Experience); 2) I know he's DIO's son and such, but he acts as if he had 50:50 brain of Bruno and Diavolo in terms of planning and maturity. He can find calmly a way out of any troubles. Sure, he pays a price after he is wrong, but mostly after one mistake he succeedes anyway.
These two elements combined make make me Giorno as Gary Stu-type of a character, however Jotaro is better in this "humble" cathegory in my oppinion.
I wonder if you agree, @PedroBV96 . You wrote that you consider Giorno as more Gary Stu than Jotaro. I would like to know whether you agree with my arguments in favor of calling Giorno like that, while of course I see Jotaro as more Gary Stu.

@JeXxTaR ,
 
Jul 6, 7:36 PM
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Well @Adnash93, the reasons for which I consider Giorno to be a Gary Stu are the following:

1. He always makes perfect analysis of the situations, which takes away good part of the tension and danger.

2. Derived from the previous one, it seems that he is able to read the minds of others, like when he tought the boss would contact them when Narancia killed Formaggio (before Formaggio could tell his mates about the vineyard, and it was never shown or implied how the boss knew about it) and in the fight with Tiziano and Squalo, when despite being captured and unable to see Narancia, was able to create a new tongue for Narancia, as if he knew Narancia would cut his tongue.

3. His stand became a Crazy Diamond clone after the fight with Babyface Junior, and beyond, since he can now heal everyone, and himself.
Josuke at least couldn't heal himself with Crazy Diamond.

And finally, because after he got the arrow his stand became practically a god, capable of undoing the power of his enemies.
 
Jul 6, 7:43 PM

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To be honest, this was kind of a bad episode. Animation seemed much worse than usual and almost nothing that happened made any sense. At least Giorno was cool.
 
Jul 6, 7:57 PM
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^ This episode was definitely more animated than the last few, so I'm not sure what you mean.
 
Jul 6, 8:17 PM
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Armados said:

I did say part 1 is excluded.
Part 4 is an asspull, Josuke survived because Okuyasu decided he doesn't want to die, and saved him before his death. It was badly written regardless because the entire cast ignored the explosions and Jotaro thought it was "the rain". Also Kira forgot about Sheer Heart Attack even though Josuke literally can't do anything to beat it.



Okuyasu survived because Josuke healed his wounds.
If Jotaro thought that the sound came from the rain, then what is the problem?
It doesn't make sense for kira to use sheer heart attack because:
first, okuyasu can erase sheer heart attack quickly.
and second, Stray cat's air bubbles are more versatile.


Armados said:

Part 6 is also an asspull. Let's assume I agree with Jotaro's behavior (which I really don't considering how much he got lectured in past parts about letting his feelings affect his behavior and thus resulting in problems), but having 2 stands at once as an asspull, as otherwise mr.Pucci should've had way more than Whitesnake. Also Weather Report suddenly having a "secret ability" that a person who isn't its original user suddenly knows isn't an asspull...? sure.



you should put a spoiler label.




Armados said:

Part 7 was also an asspull. Stuff spin so hard they ignore space and time, or move through time stop? How does that make any sense?


 
Jul 6, 9:33 PM
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PedroBV96 said:
Well @Adnash93, the reasons for which I consider Giorno to be a Gary Stu are the following:

1. He always makes perfect analysis of the situations, which takes away good part of the tension and danger.

2. Derived from the previous one, it seems that he is able to read the minds of others, like when he tought the boss would contact them when Narancia killed Formaggio (before Formaggio could tell his mates about the vineyard, and it was never shown or implied how the boss knew about it) and in the fight with Tiziano and Squalo, when despite being captured and unable to see Narancia, was able to create a new tongue for Narancia, as if he knew Narancia would cut his tongue.

3. His stand became a Crazy Diamond clone after the fight with Babyface Junior, and beyond, since he can now heal everyone, and himself.
Josuke at least couldn't heal himself with Crazy Diamond.

And finally, because after he got the arrow his stand became practically a god, capable of undoing the power of his enemies.




and to make it worse:

-giorno has the most broken stand despite being the jojo with less protagonism.
-bruno is basically what giorno should be (past, role in the plot, personality, stand).
-the arrow isn't relevant again.
-this part is pure filler.
-polnareff deserved more the power of ger.
-diavolo's defeat is more disappointing because all the weaknesses of king crimson shown by bruno, risotto and polnareff aren't relevant.
-and finally, the fact that Giorno is the son of Dio isn't important.
 
Jul 6, 9:40 PM
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Armados said:
DeepRiver said:


I know anyone can have his opinión but claiming all that shit is straight up retarded.

How is Diavolo the worst antagonist? A dude who just killed 3 main characters ,has rich lore, and strong presence , cant be the Worst , specially when Kars and part 3 Dio already exist. And how in the hell aré the other characters badly written? I know Giorno can be a bit bland compared to other jojos, but Characters like Mista, Abacchio and Narancia are leagues above the likes of Kakyoin, Avdol and Iggy
.


Part 3 DIO was badly written but was entertaining. Kars wasn't a good villian but Diavolo is just "ohohoh I am the best I deserve everything everyone should fear me ohohoh I am trying to hide my true identity I swear I am not a worse Kira Yoshikage".
How can you call Abacchio a character? He had to deal with his past which is great, but other than that he is just "shut up Giorno". I never cared about his death in the slightest, he felt like a completely flat character.
Mista and Narancia had more personality, but they still were flat. Mista was the person who gets fucked every time and saved, Araki never explored why he has 6 stands that talk with different personalities (unlike other hive-like stands that weren't the case), or why they try to imitate human behavior by asking for food. Narancia was simply dumb. The entire fight with Tiziano and Squalo was a typical "we have to dumb everyone down to make the scenario possible" and Narancia acted completely stupid even though it was his turn to shine.

Polnareff came back nerfed (because Araki likes to nerf the hell out of old characters to make newer ones shine), and his entire Requeim arc never made any sense. First of all, if he was aware of Diavolo, a stand that messes with time, and one of his best friends can freeze time, why the hell didn't he ever contact him? Diavolo never was aware of Polnareff being alive, Polnareff stated that both he and Jotaro were looking for the stand arrows, and I don't know what about you but Star Platinum Requiem wouldn't be an underpowered stand. I know Araki didn't want Jotaro in another part, but it was written badly to write Jotaro out instead of giving a real plotline behind that.

I am sorry if my taste doesn't fit yours, but part 5 felt really bland for me. Avdol is indeed a bad character, I never liked that Araki gave Iggy words to say, as I think he would've felt a way more tragic character if he would've just been a regular dog. Kakyoin is beloved because he is a meme material, and was written badly because Araki didn't know what to do with his powers or with him in general. And yet, Polnareff, Joseph and Jotaro (even though most of the part he was just an egdy yare yare kid) carried the part much more than the entire cast of part 5.

Also bad writing in general made part 5 not as enjoyable as the rest - Araki didn't decide what he wants to do with Giorno's power, throwing Fugo out of the series, Bruno dying just so he can get "ressurected" temporarly because that clearly makes sense and its not that Araki regretted killing him so early, Diavolo not killing everyone when he was capable of doing that, Diavolo having such a strong stand never thought of just randomly walking down the streets near them and killing them in a surprise attack while they were never aware of his face and look in general, or Diavolo not killing Trish instantly in the elevator instead of dragging her down for whatever reason. He wanted her dead, right? Why did he do that then? I can keep on going, many things didn't really make much sense and led to scenarios that kept me thinking "but why didn't he do that and that it would've solved his problem", instead he's monologing 3 minutes everytime about how perfect he is even though he is extremly shallow and boring.


Complaining about a jojo villain for monologuing too much and saiying how perfect he is, is basically complaining about every jojo villain, because everyone is the same. Diavolo is a mafia boss, mafia bosses usually do their best in hiding their identity, Diavolo went so far with his paranoia that literally messed up his head and dedicated himself to erase everything about him, to the point of making questionable decisions and not taking any risks. Thats why he didnt kill Trish in the elevator and thats why he didnt attacked the gang that time. And even so he still managed to be more suceasful than other villains in killing main characters with his dirty and cowardly methods.

Abacchio whole arc is about the search of the truth and his effort in trusting others. Thats why he is the most mean to Giorno, we know that he has an special relationship with Bruno and as a straight and down to earth person when Bruno isnt in the lead, his progression his sutile and is in his death that it comes to a conclusion with giving a piece for Giorno to figure out making clear that at his death, he ended up trusting him. The same with Narancia and Mista, what we know about the characters is enough. Bucciaratis gang is a group of outcasts who dont belong to society anymore and are in there for their own personal reasons, they are happy where they are now, because they found a new family and is only when Giorno joints that they know have to do the effort in acepting him, and they did it. Golden winds goes around loyalty and looking for a place to fit. The way the gang was handled was the most fitting. And because of that i find the cast of golden wind more rounded, solid and tridimensional than the starduat crusaders and more than a half of Morioh
 
Jul 6, 10:44 PM
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Giorno requiem looks like a humanoid pikachu
 
Jul 6, 11:10 PM
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Jojo protags flex the best against villains, watching Diavolo lose his shit was too good. They nailed it in animating in this.
Modified by Gen2K_, Jul 6, 11:17 PM
 
Jul 7, 12:39 AM

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How much of my heart must this series so carefully destroy? T____T
HELP KYOANI HEAL
 
Jul 7, 12:53 AM
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perfectly executed
 
Jul 7, 1:23 AM
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JeXxTaR said:
PedroBV96 said:
Well @Adnash93, the reasons for which I consider Giorno to be a Gary Stu are the following:

1. He always makes perfect analysis of the situations, which takes away good part of the tension and danger.

2. Derived from the previous one, it seems that he is able to read the minds of others, like when he tought the boss would contact them when Narancia killed Formaggio (before Formaggio could tell his mates about the vineyard, and it was never shown or implied how the boss knew about it) and in the fight with Tiziano and Squalo, when despite being captured and unable to see Narancia, was able to create a new tongue for Narancia, as if he knew Narancia would cut his tongue.

3. His stand became a Crazy Diamond clone after the fight with Babyface Junior, and beyond, since he can now heal everyone, and himself.
Josuke at least couldn't heal himself with Crazy Diamond.

And finally, because after he got the arrow his stand became practically a god, capable of undoing the power of his enemies.




and to make it worse:

-giorno has the most broken stand despite being the jojo with less protagonism.
-bruno is basically what giorno should be (past, role in the plot, personality, stand).
-the arrow isn't relevant again.
-this part is pure filler.
-polnareff deserved more the power of ger.
-diavolo's defeat is more disappointing because all the weaknesses of king crimson shown by bruno, risotto and polnareff aren't relevant.
-and finally, the fact that Giorno is the son of Dio isn't important.


-GE isn’t really that broken, I’d say it’s the weakest of the anime protagonists so far
-I agree, Bruno is my favorite character in the whole JoJo franchise
-I don’t get this point. The arrow is the plot device of part 5, how isn’t it relevant?
-If anything, part 4 is most filler. It’s literally just catching a random murderer in a small town that no one has ever heard of, while in this part they stop the biggest criminal boss in Italy, probably in the world
-No he didn’t, Polnareff was just introduced for fan service and to bring the arrow to the story
-I agree they could’ve beat Diavolo by using the blood trick and team up since KC isn’t good at crowd control
-I don’t get the critique about how Giorno being Dio’s son isn’t important.

Like, what did you expect/want? Giorno to be a half vampire, or Giorno being able to stop time? That would be just lame. It’s just a way to keep Dio haunting in the background and keeping him relevant, as well as making Giorno a JoJo and keep the bloodline going without using the ”well he’s the previous JoJo’s child/grandchild” trick for the fourth time. He inherited Dio’s hair color, stand cry, stand color and Dio’s ruthlessness (+ Jonathan’s kindness). What else did you want?
 
Jul 7, 4:19 AM
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JeXxTaR said:
Armados said:

I did say part 1 is excluded.
Part 4 is an asspull, Josuke survived because Okuyasu decided he doesn't want to die, and saved him before his death. It was badly written regardless because the entire cast ignored the explosions and Jotaro thought it was "the rain". Also Kira forgot about Sheer Heart Attack even though Josuke literally can't do anything to beat it.



Okuyasu survived because Josuke healed his wounds.
If Jotaro thought that the sound came from the rain, then what is the problem?
It doesn't make sense for kira to use sheer heart attack because:
first, okuyasu can erase sheer heart attack quickly.
and second, Stray cat's air bubbles are more versatile.


Armados said:

Part 6 is also an asspull. Let's assume I agree with Jotaro's behavior (which I really don't considering how much he got lectured in past parts about letting his feelings affect his behavior and thus resulting in problems), but having 2 stands at once as an asspull, as otherwise mr.Pucci should've had way more than Whitesnake. Also Weather Report suddenly having a "secret ability" that a person who isn't its original user suddenly knows isn't an asspull...? sure.



you should put a spoiler label.




Armados said:

Part 7 was also an asspull. Stuff spin so hard they ignore space and time, or move through time stop? How does that make any sense?




Josuke wouldn't have survived against Sheer Heart Attack, its kind of obvious. Okuyasu himself said he saw the light and his brother told him he shouldn't come with him - which means he was already dying. Josuke healing him doesn't matter as Josuke himself thought he was already dead as Okuyasu didn't react afterwards, which isn't something related to his stand as anyone healed but it immediately reacted unless they were already dead.
Jotaro thinking that Josuke's screaming and explosions is the sound of rain is bad writing... either way, Okuyasu saving Josuke because he decided he doesn't want to die is an asspull.




 
Jul 7, 6:05 AM

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I am very confused as to what the fuck requiem is or doies...
 
Jul 7, 6:36 AM
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Adnash93 said:
@Modernoir , I was talking about Jotaro as main JoJo, so I had Part 3 in mind. In Part 4 he was alright, well balanced and even behave properly.


Your arguments about Giorno are valid when we look at him only as a single character. He has his talents gained by living a deliquent live on the street (i.e. riding a car quite good) and he is

Two biggest problems about Giorno which justify calling him as Gary Stu are: 1) his overpowered Stand that doesn't need Requiem to have abilities that are way too powerful (in "Vento Aureo" only King Crimson is more powerful, compared to non-Requiem Golden Experience); 2) I know he's DIO's son and such, but he acts as if he had 50:50 brain of Bruno and Diavolo in terms of planning and maturity. He can find calmly a way out of any troubles. Sure, he pays a price after he is wrong, but mostly after one mistake he succeedes anyway.
These two elements combined make make me Giorno as Gary Stu-type of a character, however Jotaro is better in this "humble" cathegory in my oppinion.
I wonder if you agree, @PedroBV96 . You wrote that you consider Giorno as more Gary Stu than Jotaro. I would like to know whether you agree with my arguments in favor of calling Giorno like that, while of course I see Jotaro as more Gary Stu.

@JeXxTaR ,

But he isn't a gary stu. He fails far too much to be one. Gold Experience is a very powerful Stand, sure, but it's not invincible. Do you not recall how absolutely powerless it was against White Album? There are plenty of moments where Gio can only prevail because he has to use his ability in conjunction with his teammates, I'd agree he was a gary stu if he won all his battles solo but GE is a support stand more than a powerhouse like Star Platinum. Seriously, in almost every fight Gio only wins through teamwork.

I usually agree with you on a lot of things but I think you're being too harsh here trying to stick to a buzzword, Gio isn't a gary stu at all. People look up to him but I'd argue rightfully so since he proves his worth to the gang whenever he has the chance, but he does more than enough to fuck up at times. He's not just handed respect on a platter, with every initiating fight he's had to do something to prove to the others that he's worthy of being their potential leader. And he screws up plenty; despite having such an OP Stand he wasn't able to save Bruno, Narancia or Abbacchio. I'd argue he's in fact a very balanced protagonist, a huge step-up from Jotaro who basically was a gary stu for a good portion of his runtime as a character. Seriously, compare how Jotaro wins fights to how Gio wins fights. Gio wins fights a lot more similarly to Joseph thanks to his mad tactics and ability applications, but unlike Hamon it actually does make sense given his ability. Would you argue Joseph is a gary stu? I wouldn't. It does these characters a huge disservice simply labelling them "gary stu" or "mary sue" when those terms should really only be reserved for actual offenders, like Kirito from SAO.

EpsilonX said:
To be honest, this was kind of a bad episode. Animation seemed much worse than usual and almost nothing that happened made any sense. At least Giorno was cool.

In what universe is the animation much worse than usual? Good lord you guys on this forum sometimes
 
Jul 7, 7:26 AM
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EpsilonX said:
To be honest, this was kind of a bad episode. Animation seemed much worse than usual and almost nothing that happened made any sense. At least Giorno was cool.


What episode did you watch?
This was easily the best animated episode since EP27, and I was truly unimpressed with the previous episode, which had a lot of Q U A L I T Y.
 
Jul 7, 7:30 AM

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Buccellati’s explanation on destroying Requiem was more comprehensible in the manga. He implied that KC didn’t completely destroy it not only because he’s busy with picking up the arrow, but also because he would like the chaos that SCR created to stay a bit longer. Somehow I found the lines in the anime a bit lacking. Maybe it’s just me.
Anyways, the finale of part 5 has always been quite controversial. It’s very different from how Shounen usually concludes its final battle to an extent that it could be considered anti-climax. That being said, I’m glad that my anime-only friend enjoyed this ep quite much. Hopefully most anime onlies did too. Also glad that GER looked less creepier and more sick in the anime form.

My boi Buccellati fought to the very last second for his beliefs. Now he can finally rest in peace with his soul ascending to heaven. The music was on point. I like how DP didn’t go too sensational on this scene just like how Buccellati himself thought of his fate. Instead of sadness, he felt revived & relieved that he completed what he needed to do.

For me, meeting Buccellatti was kinda decreed by fate. During the airing of DiU, I got to know about All Star Battle and became very interested in the main characters of VA. I was favorably impressed by Sugiyama Noriaki-san’s fantastic performance of voice acting Buccellati’s battle cry.
After struggling for a week whether I should start to read the manga, I finally decided to break my rule of not reading the manga before watching the anime of JOJO. And it kinda surprised me how fast I finished reading part 5. Even though I had already been spoiled of Buccellati’s death by ASB before starting the reading, it didn’t decrease my affection for him & the whole story at all.
On the opposite, I kept feeling insecure that we might lose him at any time. When he was killed by KC in the middle of the story, I felt sad thinking that it was his last moment. So every scenes of him afterwards were gifts to me. I appreciated his stay with us till pretty much the end of the part.

It may be easy to become fond of a character, but it’s hard to love them and even harder to adore & respect them at the same time.
I’m amazed at how versatilely Buccellati uses his stand ability. I respect him for his noble character. And I adore him for being so selfless & true to his beliefs. He is, and will always be my most favorite character of all time!
 
Jul 7, 9:52 AM
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Supersonic_speed said:
JeXxTaR said:




and to make it worse:

-giorno has the most broken stand despite being the jojo with less protagonism.
-bruno is basically what giorno should be (past, role in the plot, personality, stand).
-the arrow isn't relevant again.
-this part is pure filler.
-polnareff deserved more the power of ger.
-diavolo's defeat is more disappointing because all the weaknesses of king crimson shown by bruno, risotto and polnareff aren't relevant.
-and finally, the fact that Giorno is the son of Dio isn't important.


-GE isn’t really that broken, I’d say it’s the weakest of the anime protagonists so far
-I agree, Bruno is my favorite character in the whole JoJo franchise
-I don’t get this point. The arrow is the plot device of part 5, how isn’t it relevant?
-If anything, part 4 is most filler. It’s literally just catching a random murderer in a small town that no one has ever heard of, while in this part they stop the biggest criminal boss in Italy, probably in the world
-No he didn’t, Polnareff was just introduced for fan service and to bring the arrow to the story
-I agree they could’ve beat Diavolo by using the blood trick and team up since KC isn’t good at crowd control
-I don’t get the critique about how Giorno being Dio’s son isn’t important.

Like, what did you expect/want? Giorno to be a half vampire, or Giorno being able to stop time? That would be just lame. It’s just a way to keep Dio haunting in the background and keeping him relevant, as well as making Giorno a JoJo and keep the bloodline going without using the ”well he’s the previous JoJo’s child/grandchild” trick for the fourth time. He inherited Dio’s hair color, stand cry, stand color and Dio’s ruthlessness (+ Jonathan’s kindness). What else did you want?


- obviously I was talking about gold experience requiem.
-
-the requiem arrow is only relevant for this moment.
-In part 4 jotaro is part of the main cast, a relationship is developed between josuke and joseph, and we know from the beginning that all the problems in part 4 are caused by DIO.
In part 5 Giorno is never aware that he is part of the lineage Joestar, Jotaro and Koichi aren't relevant, all the main cast is new and have no relation to the previous parts, the same with the antagonists; and until polnareff appeared, diavolo had no relation to the previous parts.
-polnareff suffered more to defeat diavolo.
-all the things that Giorno inherited from DIO are superficial, these have no relevance to the plot or to his personality (Bruno is ruthless and kind too). If Giorno wasn't DIO's son nothing would change in the story more than small details.
 
Jul 7, 9:53 AM

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mess of an episode
 
Jul 7, 1:56 PM

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Aw I really liked Bucciarati and hoped he could see things through til the end. This is sad.
 
Jul 7, 2:08 PM

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OberonFelsach said:
this was somehow really boring. I can say that I enjoyed every single other episode more than this one.
This is a problem with Part 5's ending in general. Nothing David Pro can do to fix it.
 
Jul 7, 3:48 PM

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Meritas said:
OberonFelsach said:
this was somehow really boring. I can say that I enjoyed every single other episode more than this one.
This is a problem with Part 5's ending in general. Nothing David Pro can do to fix it.


I didn't read the manga but I do believe you....nothing much can be done about it but also, it's not like I will condemn the whole show because of an underwhelming ending. I enjoyed this part a lot and to me JoJo is still the most entertaining franchise in anime.
 
Jul 7, 6:14 PM
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Armados said:

Josuke wouldn't have survived against Sheer Heart Attack, its kind of obvious. Okuyasu himself said he saw the light and his brother told him he shouldn't come with him - which means he was already dying. Josuke healing him doesn't matter as Josuke himself thought he was already dead as Okuyasu didn't react afterwards, which isn't something related to his stand as anyone healed but it immediately reacted unless they were already dead.
Jotaro thinking that Josuke's screaming and explosions is the sound of rain is bad writing... either way, Okuyasu saving Josuke because he decided he doesn't want to die is an asspull.



you're just assuming that josuke couldn't deal with sheer heart attack without explaining why.
the thing with Okuyasu's brother may have been just a dream; Many people have this kind of visions when they are in a state close to death. Koichi didn't wake up instantly when Kira almost killed him.
Why is it bad writing that jotaro thought that the sound came from the rain?


Armados said:







Armados said:



 
Jul 7, 8:39 PM

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Gold Experience Requiem possesses the arcane power of undoing its opponent's actions

 
Jul 8, 2:35 PM

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I am thoroughly confused as to how bucciaratti beat requiem; didn't seem to make any sense
 
Jul 8, 4:43 PM

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ZxI said:
i am not sure what is happening but i am enjoying it


my entire experience with this franchise summed up in one sentence.
 
Jul 8, 5:51 PM

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Modernoir said:
But he isn't a gary stu. He fails far too much to be one. Gold Experience is a very powerful Stand, sure, but it's not invincible. Do you not recall how absolutely powerless it was against White Album? There are plenty of moments where Gio can only prevail because he has to use his ability in conjunction with his teammates, I'd agree he was a gary stu if he won all his battles solo but GE is a support stand more than a powerhouse like Star Platinum. Seriously, in almost every fight Gio only wins through teamwork.

That's why I see Jotaro as a true Gary Stu of JoJo. I wasn't the one claiming that Giorno is one, however I can understand why people might treat him as Gary Stu. That's why I wrote two biggest problems that I see in Giorno which may eventually lead some people to a conclusion that GioGio is a male Mary Sue of JoJo.

Giorno has many traits that I would rather call as "overpowered" rather than Gary Stu-like. Like you said, his Stand despite having really strong powers, is mostly a support that co-operates with other, more offensive Stands that belong to other Giorno's friends. What's more, Giorno is wounded a lot and without his Stand he would've been already dead way before they made it to Colosseum in Rome.
However his Stand, even as a support one, is overpowered and it can't by denied. It's basically boosted as hell Crazy Diamond that can do even more things than only healing others (i.e. turning items into plants or animals) and can affect its user, while Josuke couldn't use Crazy Diamond on himself.
On this case we can find an explaination, like Giorno being DIO's son. DIO had a powerful stand, The World, and he was a superhuman (half-vampire zombie, whatever xD), therefore his son couldn't be a mere kid. By the time DIO impregnated Giorno's mother we can assume that he already was a Stand user, so that kind of power must've been transfered to Giorno.

Jotaro, on the other hand, was only Joseph Joestar's grandson. His Stand was binded to Joestars' legacy, but neither his mother or grandfather didn't possess a strong Stands (and his mom was almost killed by the time her Stand activated, lol).


Modernoir said:
I usually agree with you on a lot of things but I think you're being too harsh here trying to stick to a buzzword, Gio isn't a gary stu at all. People look up to him but I'd argue rightfully so since he proves his worth to the gang whenever he has the chance, but he does more than enough to fuck up at times. He's not just handed respect on a platter, with every initiating fight he's had to do something to prove to the others that he's worthy of being their potential leader. And he screws up plenty; despite having such an OP Stand he wasn't able to save Bruno, Narancia or Abbacchio. I'd argue he's in fact a very balanced protagonist, a huge step-up from Jotaro who basically was a gary stu for a good portion of his runtime as a character. Seriously, compare how Jotaro wins fights to how Gio wins fights. Gio wins fights a lot more similarly to Joseph thanks to his mad tactics and ability applications, but unlike Hamon it actually does make sense given his ability. Would you argue Joseph is a gary stu? I wouldn't. It does these characters a huge disservice simply labelling them "gary stu" or "mary sue" when those terms should really only be reserved for actual offenders, like Kirito from SAO.

No problem, the forum is to share thoughts on various topics; here we discuss which main character after five anime adaptations of JoJo is Gary Stu. :-)

If I were to add something I wrote above, I would like to agree with comparing Giorno to Joseph. While I see Giorno as a character presented as more powerful than Joseph was in Part 2, I get what you meant. Yes, they are similar in being strong, but not unbalanced, therefore they are capable of screwing things in various situations a lot and are not to have control over everything. Joseph couldn't stop Esidisi from killing Loggs or Whammu from killing Caesar. He had to prove his worth to Lisa Lisa as well. Hell, way before that he was defeated and survived by pure luck, getting a punishment of having two time bombs inside his body (those rings, I mean).

That's why, I will repeat once again, I don't see Giorno is genuinely Gary Stu, even if he shares some traits of Gary Stu, he is not "Gary Stu of JoJo" for me. This humble title I give to Jotaro from Part 3. While Giorno could seem like somebody omnipotent at start, he turned out to be a regular guy wanting to become Gangstar, with overpowered Stand. And DIO's son, of course, but it didn't turn him into 100% unbeatable character.
What I wanted to emphase is that I understand people who see Giorno as Gary Stu and I presented two arguments corresponding (or which might've corresponded, lol) with those oppinions. While I don't see Giorno as somebody equal or "better" in terms of "Gary Stueness", I can understand the point of people who actually see him as one.
 
Jul 8, 6:23 PM

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Armados said:
Also Kira forgot about Sheer Heart Attack even though Josuke literally can't do anything to beat it.


Armados said:

Josuke wouldn't have survived against Sheer Heart Attack, its kind of obvious.


Josuke can't do anything to Sheer Heart Attack? The same Sheer Heart Attack that Kira launched at Josuke when he first discovered his identity? The same Sheer Heart Attack that Josuke healed and sent back into Kira's hand five seconds after he saw it?

Supersonic_speed said:

-GE isn’t really that broken, I’d say it’s the weakest of the anime protagonists so far


I'm HEAVILY inclined to disagree with that. In past parts we've seen Hermit Purple, Star Platinum, and Crazy Diamond fail against Stands that they're poor matches for. In Part 5, the closest instance I can think of GE failing in a fight is when his arm got punched off by Diavolo, and even then he managed to turn that into an advantage.

Not to mention how its power is extraordinarily versatile compared to "I can stop time" or "I can heal things". Heck, it even basically becomes Crazy Diamond but with less strength and more powers. And Giorno almost never has to fight Power type Stands, so even that barely matters as a shortcoming.
Modified by Hobgoblin2099, Jul 8, 6:32 PM
 
Jul 8, 7:25 PM
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GosuDR said:
Gold Experience Requiem possesses the arcane power of undoing its opponent's actions

And it's basically making Giorno a Jesus-kun.
 
Jul 8, 7:31 PM
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Adnash93 said:

DIO had a powerful stand, The World, and he was a superhuman (half-vampire zombie, whatever xD), therefore his son couldn't be a mere kid. By the time DIO impregnated Giorno's mother we can assume that he already was a Stand user, so that kind of power must've been transfered to Giorno.

Giorno being DIO's son had no implications at all in his life or what he is now, unlike in part 4. Like @JeXxTaR said, all the things that Giorno inherited from DIO are superficial and if Giorno wasn't DIO's son nothing would change in the story more than small details.
 
Jul 8, 8:13 PM

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The last Jojo Friday until we get Part 6 (although I'm watching it on a Monday at 11 PM). F.

I guess because we got the sound effects OP this time the hour-long special won't have an OP/ED? Even after finishing the episode, I have no idea why King Crimson's hand began falling apart. Seeing Diavolo trying to bargain with Bucciarati was so satisfying. I thought Mista's body got donuted. Oh well. Bucciarati was reborn because of his R E S O L V E. Okay, so Giorno is holding the arrow in an upright sitting position. Why did it then cut to him lying unconscious? Trish's Daddy-Tingle is still weird. The scene of Giorno impaling himself with the arrow was really awesome. Since when are Stand Users able to physically hold their Stands? The eye peeping out of Gold Experience was creepy. Gold Experience Requiem looks fucking awesome. It can shoot laser beams now? The whole King Crimson sequence was super trippy, I loved it. GER's ability doesn't make any sense but I'm sure it will make sense after the next episode.
 
Jul 8, 8:21 PM

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What an episode!
RIP Bucciarati :/
"There is no such thing as an Anime elitist. You watch Anime, therefore, you are trash by society's standards."

 
Jul 9, 5:25 AM

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I thought the final two eps would be dedicated solely to the next arc which is why the wait didn't bother me that much, but now we gotta wait for the end of this bit too. I'm looking forward to how anime onlines react to all that.

RarePepes said:
I am thoroughly confused as to how bucciaratti beat requiem; didn't seem to make any sense
The same way Diavolo did. The bullshit about attacking the light that casts the shadow of the soul. It makes sense following its own logic, but it really came out of nowhere.
 
Jul 9, 7:22 AM

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PedroBV96 said:
Giorno being DIO's son had no implications at all in his life or what he is now, unlike in part 4. Like @JeXxTaR said, all the things that Giorno inherited from DIO are superficial and if Giorno wasn't DIO's son nothing would change in the story more than small details.

I think it had mostly due to his inherited talents and overpowered Stand.
What's more, if he wasn't DIO's son, his hair would stay black without those fancy curls. ;D

@Gytanzo , I would love to see an opening with new gimmick featuring GER. :D
 
Jul 9, 7:55 AM

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Since Diavolo revealed the answer to acquiring the Requiem Arrow, Bucciarati decided to do the same but he destroyed his own soul's light to put an end to Silver Chariot's madness at the cost of his remaining borrowed time in the world to save Trish and the others. He might've died at the first encounter with the boss but this moment when he was finally laid to rest for good was a very emotional moment for me. May the real boss celebrate with his fellow Gang-Stars up above...

Golden Experience Requiem's mysterious ability just pulled a "Great Days" on him! I can't really say that I fully understood what GER did but I imagine that it would be like having to forcibly sit through the entirety of a hundred "X does X for 24 hours" videos in a row without being able to skip to the end nor reach it for the matter. Yikes. It might not be the most conventional of last boss fights compared to the other parts but I was entertained regardless!









 
Jul 9, 9:41 AM
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Air-117 said:
Am I the only one thought this was the weakest part since 1?


bro i think you're right because this part is very good but it's not as good as other parts
 
Jul 9, 12:16 PM

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ReaperCreeper said:
I thought the final two eps would be dedicated solely to the next arc which is why the wait didn't bother me that much, but now we gotta wait for the end of this bit too. I'm looking forward to how anime onlines react to all that.

RarePepes said:
I am thoroughly confused as to how bucciaratti beat requiem; didn't seem to make any sense
The same way Diavolo did. The bullshit about attacking the light that casts the shadow of the soul. It makes sense following its own logic, but it really came out of nowhere.


so what, diavolo only weakened him and bucciaratti finished it off? why didn't everyone just do that? idk, it's Jojo what can I say? Not really bothered by it but like you said it kinda came out of left field.
 
Jul 9, 12:47 PM
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Hobgoblin2099 said:
Armados said:
Also Kira forgot about Sheer Heart Attack even though Josuke literally can't do anything to beat it.


Armados said:

Josuke wouldn't have survived against Sheer Heart Attack, its kind of obvious.


Josuke can't do anything to Sheer Heart Attack? The same Sheer Heart Attack that Kira launched at Josuke when he first discovered his identity? The same Sheer Heart Attack that Josuke healed and sent back into Kira's hand five seconds after he saw it?

Supersonic_speed said:

-GE isn’t really that broken, I’d say it’s the weakest of the anime protagonists so far


I'm HEAVILY inclined to disagree with that. In past parts we've seen Hermit Purple, Star Platinum, and Crazy Diamond fail against Stands that they're poor matches for. In Part 5, the closest instance I can think of GE failing in a fight is when his arm got punched off by Diavolo, and even then he managed to turn that into an advantage.

Not to mention how its power is extraordinarily versatile compared to "I can stop time" or "I can heal things". Heck, it even basically becomes Crazy Diamond but with less strength and more powers. And Giorno almost never has to fight Power type Stands, so even that barely matters as a shortcoming.


I mean GE doesn’t stand a chance against Star Platinum. SP wipes the floor with GE in close combat even without time stop. Giorno’s only option is using tricks or ranged attacks somehow, but with Jotaro’s passive perception 500 and Star Platinum’s op precision which gives him reactions faster than bullets and being able to shoot projectiles with an insane accuracy, that’s a difficult task.

Giorno vs Josuke would be a tougher match up, but I would say Josuke wins 6 or 7 times out of 10. Again, GE loses in pretty much every stats in close combat, and Giorno has to rely on tricks and gimmicks again. But Josuke is no idiot either, and we have seen him come up with excellent plans during a fight before. Also, Giorno’s healing takes time and patience because of the pain, and Giorno has to focus on healing ”right” unlike Josuke’s which is automatic and happens in seconds.

I’d rank Josuke on the same level as Bruno, CD has a bit better stats and Josuke still has main character plot armor, but Bruno is a genius when it comes to fighting and has years of experience in fighting and assassinations, while Josuke had his first fight against Jotaro.

And Giorno lost to Bruno. Technically. Giorno admitted that if Bruno wasn’t a nice guy and stopped his attack when he saw the drug marks on the kid, Giorno would be rolling on the ground in pieces. So there’s that
 
Jul 9, 4:10 PM
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otakugamer04 said:
Air-117 said:
Am I the only one thought this was the weakest part since 1?


bro i think you're right because this part is very good but it's not as good as other parts


Dont know, but i find this the best one yet
 
Jul 9, 5:17 PM
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RarePepes said:
ReaperCreeper said:
I thought the final two eps would be dedicated solely to the next arc which is why the wait didn't bother me that much, but now we gotta wait for the end of this bit too. I'm looking forward to how anime onlines react to all that.

The same way Diavolo did. The bullshit about attacking the light that casts the shadow of the soul. It makes sense following its own logic, but it really came out of nowhere.


so what, diavolo only weakened him and bucciaratti finished it off? why didn't everyone just do that? idk, it's Jojo what can I say? Not really bothered by it but like you said it kinda came out of left field.


Well if King Crimson completely destroyed Chariot Requiem he would have died
Modified by BoborRUU, Jul 9, 5:26 PM
 
Jul 10, 6:42 AM

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Ardis160 said:
EpsilonX said:
To be honest, this was kind of a bad episode. Animation seemed much worse than usual and almost nothing that happened made any sense. At least Giorno was cool.


What episode did you watch?
This was easily the best animated episode since EP27, and I was truly unimpressed with the previous episode, which had a lot of Q U A L I T Y.


I may have exaggerated how bad it was, but I still wasn't impressed. The main thing that stood out to me was Mista firing his gun, which seem unusually bad.

DeepRiver said:
otakugamer04 said:


bro i think you're right because this part is very good but it's not as good as other parts


Dont know, but i find this the best one yet


I hated part 5 in the manga, but it's my favorite season of the anime. They've done such a great job with the adaptation.
Modified by EpsilonX, Jul 10, 6:48 AM
 
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Diavolo: There is... no next time (Charging at Giorno).

Giorno: Oh? You're approaching me?! Kono Di.. Giorno...
 
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