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#1
Jun 18, 9:37 PM
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welp the news media says this https://www.polygon.com/2019/6/18/18683609/attack-on-titan-fascist-nationalist-isayama-hajime-manga-anime

do you agree? or can you see the subtext like ye maybe Marley is the USA and the Eldians/Paradis Island is Japan lol

is Isayama trying to be political with nationalism or ultra-nationalism or master race here?

regardless of what Isayama wants to express here i still love this stuff, we just gotta separate fiction from reality especially if the fiction is trying to influence our political beliefs for example

EDIT:

this also relates to the death threats sent to Isayama years ago when fans notice Dot Pixis is modeled after a Japanese military imperialist that killed a lot of Koreans and Chinese in the name of Japan imperialism

Isayama’s official blog from 2010 where he said the character Dot Pixis was based on historical figure Yoshifuru Akiyama, who Isayama called frugal and respectable. Because Akiyama was a general of the Imperial Japanese Army who contributed to the colonization of Korea and the commander of the army stationed in Korea under Japanese occupation, Koreans commented on the post in disgust and anger that Isayama would admire someone considered a war criminal, going as far as death treats.

https://kotaku.com/a-thousand-death-threats-against-a-popular-anime-creato-631792221
https://seldomusings.wordpress.com/2013/10/19/migiteorerno/
Modified by deg, Jun 18, 10:13 PM
 
#2
Jun 19, 1:51 AM

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deg said:
welp the news media says this https://www.polygon.com/2019/6/18/18683609/attack-on-titan-fascist-nationalist-isayama-hajime-manga-anime

do you agree? or can you see the subtext like ye maybe Marley is the USA and the Eldians/Paradis Island is Japan lol

is Isayama trying to be political with nationalism or ultra-nationalism or master race here?

regardless of what Isayama wants to express here i still love this stuff, we just gotta separate fiction from reality especially if the fiction is trying to influence our political beliefs for example

EDIT:

this also relates to the death threats sent to Isayama years ago when fans notice Dot Pixis is modeled after a Japanese military imperialist that killed a lot of Koreans and Chinese in the name of Japan imperialism

Isayama’s official blog from 2010 where he said the character Dot Pixis was based on historical figure Yoshifuru Akiyama, who Isayama called frugal and respectable. Because Akiyama was a general of the Imperial Japanese Army who contributed to the colonization of Korea and the commander of the army stationed in Korea under Japanese occupation, Koreans commented on the post in disgust and anger that Isayama would admire someone considered a war criminal, going as far as death treats.

https://kotaku.com/a-thousand-death-threats-against-a-popular-anime-creato-631792221
https://seldomusings.wordpress.com/2013/10/19/migiteorerno/


How do I even begin on this and how wrong it is overall...

First Akiyama wasn't even a war criminal to begin with, in any period of his stay and even raids in Korean and Chinese territory during both First Sino-Japanese war and the Russo-Japanese war. The death threats for the supposed war crime people are claiming that he did is instead to be attributed to Yamaji Motoharu and his men under the command of Ōyama Iwao. He, Akiyama, is just considered to be the father of Japanese Chivalry and also gained a popular tv series about his life on NHK shortly before the time Isayama first introduced him in the manga, likely being the inspiration for the character.

Second, the whole direct paralels in the article are absolutely ridiculous and deceptively difamatory in nature (just look at that headlines and the very link address lol, the clickbait and agenda is real), if you consider the story's current status and developments ever since the basement reveal.

Third, the supposed mentioned tweets from Isayama didn't come from him, but from a anonymous twitter account that had impersonating behavior by a time when that was a thing in Japan (Tite Kubo abandoned Twitter because of that around the same time, they even talk to editors, production staff and other people connected to their work on the artist's behalf as if they were them). Isayama's own story and political jabs straight contradicts what it's being implied to be his opinion at that.

I can further elaborate the argument if anyone is curious about it though, I'll try to make as spoiler free (almost impossible to be honest) as I can, so please especify your questions in that case.
Modified by Danpmss, Jun 19, 2:13 AM
 
#3
Jun 19, 2:12 AM
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@Danpmss

nah i got no specific questions just want to see the reactions of people here on the forums about this since its not just the so called far left media like Polygon that is saying this it was first mentioned by fans on twitter so im sure Polygon made this article in order to sensationalize that fans discussion for years about this fascist or pro-nazi subtext they are saying
 
#4
Jun 19, 2:53 AM

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> Polygon...

Yikes..
 
#5
Jun 19, 5:07 AM

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The stupidity subtext of Polygon can't go overlooked
 
#6
Jun 19, 6:17 AM

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I'm interested in seeing both sides arguments. Personally, never once saw this series as pro-nazi when reading throughout the years, even when I read this specific part.
 
#7
Jun 19, 6:29 AM

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papsoshea said:
I'm interested in seeing both sides arguments. Personally, never once saw this series as pro-nazi when reading throughout the years, even when I read this specific part.


Except that the other side gives out false facts and most of them are mainstream sjw's who have never read the manga.
Modified by ThatShiny_Hex, Jun 19, 6:39 AM
 
#8
Jun 19, 6:40 AM

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ThatShiny_Hex said:
papsoshea said:
I'm interested in seeing both sides arguments. Personally, never once saw this series as pro-nazi when reading throughout the years, even when I read this specific part.


Except that the other sides gives out false facts and most of them are mainstream sjw's who have never read the manga.
Not a fan of echo chambers. One thing I've learned (still learning) is that there are always 2 sides. Sure, there are those that are misinformed who are making the most noise, but I am sure there are also others out there that have some fresh takes - even if I disagree with them, its always good (well for me anyway) to see where the other side is coming from.
 
#9
Jun 19, 5:50 PM
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papsoshea said:
I'm interested in seeing both sides arguments. Personally, never once saw this series as pro-nazi when reading throughout the years, even when I read this specific part.


you can read this excellent counter argument against the topic of this thread and to me it makes sense too https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/comments/c1s3gg/new_episode_spoilers_the_attack_on_titan/
 
Jun 19, 6:25 PM

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deg said:
papsoshea said:
I'm interested in seeing both sides arguments. Personally, never once saw this series as pro-nazi when reading throughout the years, even when I read this specific part.


you can read this excellent counter argument against the topic of this thread and to me it makes sense too https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/comments/c1s3gg/new_episode_spoilers_the_attack_on_titan/
Hey thanks for this deg! It is an excellent read. I bookmarked it so I can re-read it later.
 
Jun 20, 2:14 AM

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For me history of Eldians is similar to the treatment of German and Japanese after World War II. All these great nations wanted to rule the world and at the end were conquered and to some degree enslaved. Germany nowdays have american bases, has to live in guilt over their world war II actions, has to constantly apologize.

Japan isn't even allowed to wage war, have proper military and is also a puppet of USA.

Maybe King Fritz action of withdrawing to the walls was inspired by Hirohito renouncement of his divinity.

When it comes to facism - well anime for sure has some facist spirit and by that I mean militarism and heroism.
Modified by Andrzej2, Jun 20, 2:37 AM
 
Jun 20, 2:25 AM
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Andrzej2 said:

When it comes to facism - well anime for sure has some facist spirit and by that I mean militarism and heroism.


very true i mean in the real world countless human wars already happen so the idea of fascism is nothing new in war scenarios be it fiction and reality
 
Jun 20, 2:44 AM

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deg said:
Andrzej2 said:

When it comes to facism - well anime for sure has some facist spirit and by that I mean militarism and heroism.


very true i mean in the real world countless human wars already happen so the idea of fascism is nothing new in war scenarios be it fiction and reality


B please. That's why we like it. Fascism is emotional and appealing if you get right propaganda from right perspective. It's theme that is still discussed even 20 years after Starship trooper movie, which is best trope of this kind.

Otherwise, all article and discussion about it is totally pointless, I think Isayama is trying to make best of Grey of his story, and imaginary universes in authors fiction has nothing to do with they political believe. And even if they do, it up to every reader to take interpretation from it.

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Jun 20, 2:49 AM
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Martin_Taylor said:
deg said:


very true i mean in the real world countless human wars already happen so the idea of fascism is nothing new in war scenarios be it fiction and reality


B please. That's why we like it. Fascism is emotional and appealing if you get right propaganda from right perspective. It's theme that is still discussed even 20 years after Starship trooper movie, which is best trope of this kind.

Otherwise, all article and discussion about it is totally pointless, I think Isayama is trying to make best of Grey of his story, and imaginary universes in authors fiction has nothing to do with they political believe. And even if they do, it up to every reader to take interpretation from it.



ye the reddit counter argument about the fascist subtext of this story says that too that Isayama is presenting the positives of both sides (Marley and Eldians or right wing vs left wing or fascism vs pacism) so its not a black and white thing but gray like you pointed out

its just that Isayama certainly takes influence from human history like germany
 
Jun 23, 10:03 PM

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Snowflakes and SJWs strike again.
 
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