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Why do people say anime analysis's aren't impressive?

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Poll: Are anime analysis's in general, impressive?

#1
Jun 17, 9:34 AM

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I got this idea from my thread, "How does the anime community compare to other communities?" where someone named @CHC said this:
CHC said:

I mean, I have seen some videos from people who do formal analysis like Replay Value and Under The Scope, whose effort I do appreciate, but to be honest what they do as not nearly as good as Tony Zhou, in terms of editing, writing, and the actual idea itself. Almost none of their video has made any point that could stay in my mind more than a few minutes. Whereas Zhou's video on Kon to some extent reshaped my understanding of Kon's entire filmography, because he pointed directly to the heart of Kon's style. And Tony Zhou himself isn't even amongst the best film analysts out there (even though he is probably the best on youtube). Film scholars like David Bordwell are often a lot more insightful and rigorous than Zhou. So if we are comparing the standard between anime criticism and film criticism, it's hard to say they are on the same par.

As for literary criticism, it's even on a completely different level. Eg. Hegel and Nietzsche on Greek tragedies, Lukács on Goethe and Dostoevsky, Frye on Blake, etc. Those are highly original studies that can have big impact on the humanities. I'm not saying anitubers should be groundbreaking thinkers, but I just don't see traces that may suggest they're trying to learn from the best critics rather than just other youtubers. I don't blame them for that either. The required amount of study will take up too much time for them to make a living on youtube. I'm just saying that personally I find most anime criticism uninspiring and forgettable.


What they said really interested me and got me thinking: why don't many people find anitubers' anime analysis to be impressive?

Digibro
Under the Scope
Pause and Select
Goat Jesus

I think are great at analyzing themes, and structures of anime.

Digibro's, "10 Killer Cuts in Evangelion Ep 1" goes into serious detail how 10 certain cuts in Eva ep 1 really tells the story:


I remember seeing great videos from @Pause and Select

And so on. I think my real question is: what makes literary and film critics better than anime analysis's?
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#2
Jun 17, 9:38 AM
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That's because most people dont really see the need of analysing anime lol, for most of us it all comes down to enjoyment
 
#3
Jun 17, 9:40 AM

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"I think they are great, oh boy. Somebody wrote a thing with me that said they weren't great. But I think they are great, oh boy. Here is the multi-paragraph response to me where he went over his stance. I don't understand how somebody can think differently than me. I make thread now asking why one person said something that disagreed with me. Oh boy Oh boy."

why not continue talking about it in the thread it was happening in, or if you're worried about it getting derailed, then taking it to profile comments
 
#4
Jun 17, 9:42 AM
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I can't answer this poll, because this can't possibly be boiled down a simple yes or no. I mean, as with any analysis, whether it's "impressive" or not will depend on a multitude of factors, including the degree of depth the analyst pursues, whether the arguments presented remain canon and true to the nature of the work as a whole, the level of bias behind their stance, etc. Not every analysis I've seen has been good, but there are of course many well-researched and compelling ones out there that have helped me to see certain anime/manga in an entirely new light.
 
#5
Jun 17, 9:43 AM

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One reason is that many film analysts are formally studying film. So their YouTube analysis videos are just an extension of what they do regularly and what they are building their expertise on. In contrast, most anitubers do analysis videos as a pastime and aren't expert critics.
 
#6
Jun 17, 9:45 AM

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CHC said:

Almost none of their video has made any point that could stay in my mind more than a few minutes.


Clinically it's referred to as ADHD.

 
#7
Jun 17, 9:45 AM

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Because people say things, it's just a thing they do. On a more serious note it's usually because of the stigma of anime not being considered "intelligent" enough to analyze. Most people are either in the "lol Chinesee cartoons" or the "lemme just watch my shows and have a good time" camps so they don't put much value into anime analysis. Though there are anime analysis channels with thousands of viewers so I guess more people care than you think OP.
 
#8
Jun 17, 9:49 AM

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KindUnicorn said:
That said there are few youtubers who do analysis videos correctly like a aforementioned digibro, mudantv and bobsamurai



Ha, finally, a joke on AD that actually made me laugh

kudos to you good sir
 
#9
Jun 17, 9:51 AM

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Manaban said:
"I think they are great, oh boy. Somebody wrote a thing with me that said they weren't great. But I think they are great, oh boy. Here is the multi-paragraph response to me where he went over his stance. I don't understand how somebody can think differently than me. I make thread now asking why one person said something that disagreed with me. Oh boy Oh boy."


"I don't understand how someone can think differently than me"
No, I do understand: I'm simply curious WHY other people think differently than me on certain topics. You wonder this too.

Manaban said:
why not continue talking about it in the thread it was happening in, or if you're worried about it getting derailed, then taking it to profile comments


Because I'm curious of other peoples' thoughts? Why do you keep asking me the dumbest questions? And don't say, "because your threads are dumb" or something stupid like that: only a 10 year old talks the way you do.

I thought you said you would stop appearing in my threads? It's clear to me at this point you are actively seeking conflict from other people. I moved on from our beef, and you should too.
Grow the fuck up.
You need help. Go see a shrink.

@KindUnicorn

Okay, I keep hearing people say, "anitubers don't make good analysis's", but not WHY they don't make good analysis's.

Manaban said:
KindUnicorn said:
That said there are few youtubers who do analysis videos correctly like a aforementioned digibro, mudantv and bobsamurai



Ha, finally, a joke on AD that actually made me laugh

kudos to you good sir


"I can't handle the fact that I disagree with this person's opinion, so I'm going to label their opinion as a joke"
You're so mature :)
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Jun 17, 9:51 AM

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>And so on. I think my real question is: what makes literary and film critics better than anime analysis?

In terms of literature we have rigorous academic programs that specifically teach us how to analyze and grant access to an enormous database of journals that can be used as sources. Most great literary criticism is from scholars with post graduate degrees that they use to explore a work in a specific context. There is no such thing for anime that I know of, at least in the West where I think we're limited in comparison to Japan, and you can create a well received video without needing as much research as you do to explore a novel using a specific approach. Digibro in the past has complained about not being privy to the wealth of information that college institutions have that could assist his knowledge, and he does have a lot of videos where his opinion overrides the amount of objective research he puts into a video. Literary criticism is also verrrrry old, whereas anime criticism is comparably new.

Literature is also less accessible than visual media, so I'd guess the people who actually commit hours of their time to read are more likely to form concise takeaways.
changelog said:
I have never read Berserk, nor do I plan to in the future, but I can already see this to be the case. It is just ridiculous that Bersek has been publishing for so long and as you have mentioned I doubt the creators really have a passion for this series anymore. It would be hilarious if they just left it incomplete and left a message saying "Fuck You" in Japanese. And by incomplete I don't mean releasing a final chapter and then never touching the series again, I mean releasing a half-done chapter that finishes on a page where Griffith is about to reveal a secret but there is no next page.
 
Jun 17, 9:54 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:
"I don't understand how someone can think differently than me"
No, I do understand: I'm simply curious WHY other people think differently than me on certain topics. You wonder this too.

sure, i do

the difference is that if i disagree with somebody, i don't make a fucking thread about it with that subtext of one person disagreeing with me

HopefulNihilist said:
I thought you said you would stop appearing in my threads? It's clear to me at this point you are actively seeking conflict from other people. I moved on from our beef, and you should too.
Grow the fuck up.
You need help. Go see a shrink.

why are you acting like this is a result of a personal issue i have with you, and not just taking issue with the entire premise of this thread basically trying to put one guy on blast for disagreeing with you, instead of doing the common sense thing of communicating with the guy you were talking with properly in regards to your disagreement on the topic

HopefulNihilist said:

"I can't handle the fact that I disagree with this person's opinion, so I'm going to label their opinion as a joke"
You're so mature :)

thanks, i try my best

----

HopefulNihilist said:

Okay, I keep hearing people say, "anitubers don't make good analysis's", but not WHY they don't make good analysis's.

also, last time you went off on this topic i wrote you a 1,500 word post citing at least 6 instances of a common behavior across multiple videos about the anituber we were talking about specifically and your entire response was literally one line about thinking i needed more citations, presented totally unironically

just a reminder
Modified by Manaban, Jun 17, 9:57 AM
 
Jun 17, 9:54 AM
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desusama said:
On a more serious note it's usually because of the stigma of anime not being considered "intelligent" enough to analyze. Most people are either in the "lol Chinesee cartoons" or the "lemme just watch my shows and have a good time" camps so they don't put much value into anime analysis.

This is honestly a bit sad to me. As someone who did a bit of film criticism in college, once I began watching anime more frequently a few years back I realized that it has much more artistic merit as a medium at large than anyone ever seems to give it credit for. Animation itself is a far more versatile medium than live-action, especially when it comes to symbolic imagery. So yeah, the people out there who think that way are just closed-minded or conditioned to false beliefs.

And no, I'm not saying that symbolism or analyses are important to everyone, or that everyone cares enough to research into things that way, but it blows my mind that some people would outright disregard the true masterpieces out there as intelligent works.
 
Jun 17, 9:55 AM

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84DaysWithout said:
>And so on. I think my real question is: what makes literary and film critics better than anime analysis?

In terms of literature we have rigorous academic programs that specifically teach us how to analyze and grant access to an enormous database of journals that can be used as sources. Most great literary criticism is from scholars with post graduate degrees that they use to explore a work in a specific context. There is no such thing for anime that I know of, at least in the West where I think we're limited in comparison to Japan, and you can create a well received video without needing as much research as you do to explore a novel using a specific approach. Digibro in the past has complained about not being privy to the wealth of information that college institutions have that could assist his knowledge, and he does have a lot of videos where his opinion overrides the amount of objective research he puts into a video. Literary criticism is also verrrrry old, whereas anime criticism is comparably new.

Literature is also less accessible than visual media, so I'd guess the people who actually commit hours of their time to read are more likely to form concise takeaways.


Okay, that's something I haven't thought of: how literary critics receive actual academic teachings. But what do those academic teachings teach that anitubers aren't aware of?

Manaban said:

the difference is that if i disagree with somebody, i don't make a fucking thread about it with that subtext of one person disagreeing with me


No, there is no subtext: you are ASSUMING there is subtext, because you want an excuse to pick a fight with me. Why would--
Oh wait I forgot you have anger issues: because you blatantly told me you've been suspended for physical assault.
How old are you? You have the attitude of a fucking 5 year old.
Grow the fuck up you tantrum thrower, and stop making a fool of yourself on others' threads.

Manaban said:

why are you acting like this is a result of a personal issue i have with you, and not just taking issue with the entire premise of this thread basically trying to put one guy on blast for disagreeing with you



Same thing.

Manaban said:
instead of doing the common sense thing of communicating with the guy you were talking with properly in regards to your disagreement on the topic


Because I don't want to just talk to ONE guy about this topic, I'm curious what others have to say.
You have the common sense of a 5 year old.
Grow. The fuck. Up.
And get the fuck out of my threads you toxic piece of--
You know what, I'm not even going to finish that last part: because the last thing I want is to get banned from MAL by an immature, man-child with anger issues like you.

Manaban said:

thanks, i try my best


Self-awareness doesn't make you better.
There's no difference between a guy who pisses on the street, and a guy who pisses on the street, and yells, "I'm pissing on the street!"
Modified by HopefulNihilist, Jun 17, 9:59 AM
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Jun 17, 10:01 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:


Okay, that's something I haven't thought of: how literary critics receive actual academic teachings. But what do those academic teachings teach that anitubers aren't aware of?

Gee, Nihil, Iunno, shit by trained professionals who have devoted their lives to academic studies in these fields as opposed to being some mongoloid who made a YT channel and likes anime and ultimately has the discussion ability of a high-end AD poster at *best*? Thousands upon thousands of years of academia and philosophy regarding literary criticism from prominent thinkers and understanding what these concepts mean and how they apply to critique? Studies, treatises, books, theories, schools of thought, literally everything beyond "I watch anime and think dis was gud and dun liek this" which is about the breadth of an opinion that the vast majority of anitubers can put out?

It's like asking what an art major has that makes them more knowledgeable on the topic than a kid sitting at home with a watercolors set.


No, there is no subtext: you are ASSUMING there is subtext, because you want an excuse to pick a fight with me. Why would--
Oh wait I forgot you have anger issues: because you blatantly told me you've been suspended for physical assault.
How old are you? You have the attitude of a fucking 5 year old.
Grow the fuck up you tantrum thrower, and stop making a fool of yourself on others' threads.

remember which one of us started and continued throwing personal attacks here

though you are right about a lack of subtext, subtext wasn't the right word because in this case it was directly stated, so mb

Same thing.

literally where in the post that you quoted did i make this in any way a personal issue with you as an individual, who brought that context into this discussion, the post you started in on didn't even acknowledge you as an existence beyond making this thread

so no, not same thing, reee



Because I don't want to just talk to ONE guy about this topic, I'm curious what others have to say.
You have the common sense of a 5 year old.
Grow. The fuck. Up.
And get the fuck out of my threads you toxic piece of--
You know what, I'm not even going to finish that last part: because the last thing I want is to get banned from MAL by an immature, man-child with anger issues like you.

you never cease to amaze


Self-awareness doesn't make you better.
There's no difference between a guy who pisses on the street, and a guy who pisses on the street, and yells, "I'm pissing on the street!

trying to accuse me of being anywhere at all close to the same level as you is about the cruelest thing somebody could say to anyone
Modified by Manaban, Jun 17, 10:08 AM
 
Jun 17, 10:04 AM

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Manaban said:
HopefulNihilist said:


Okay, that's something I haven't thought of: how literary critics receive actual academic teachings. But what do those academic teachings teach that anitubers aren't aware of?

Gee, Nihil, Iunno, shit by trained professionals who have devoted their lives to academic studies in these fields as opposed to being some mongoloid who made a YT channel and likes anime and ultimately has the discussion ability of a high-end AD poster at *best*? Thousands upon thousands of years of academia and philosophy regarding literary criticism from prominent thinkers and understanding what these concepts mean and how they apply to critique? Studies, treatises, books, theories, schools of thought, literally everything beyond "I watch anime and think dis was gud and dun liek this" which is about the breadth of an opinion that the vast majority of anitubers can put out?

It's like asking what an art major has that makes them more knowledgeable on the topic than a kid sitting at home with a watercolors set.


I was asking for examples.
You would know that, if you had common sense.
But no you don't: you have anger issues, so you take them out on people you had beef with MONTHS ago on the internet.
Well, at least you're not physically assaulting anyone, as far as I know.
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Jun 17, 10:08 AM

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I wouldn't say i've ever been impressed by it. It's just people pointing out obvious stuff you could understand yourself by watching the show.
 
Jun 17, 10:09 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:
\

I was asking for examples.
You would know that, if you had common sense.
But no you don't: you have anger issues, so you take them out on people you had beef with MONTHS ago on the internet.
Well, at least you're not physically assaulting anyone, as far as I know.

again, acting like you're specifically discriminated against in regards to someone taking issue with you acting like a moron, and then trying to levy as many personal accusations about somebody's character/intent as possible while simultaneously framing the issue as lying specifically with them and not you

wonderful
 
Jun 17, 10:10 AM

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fancyjasper said:
I wouldn't say i've ever been impressed by it. It's just people pointing out obvious stuff you could understand yourself by watching the show.


I agree that there are definitely anime analysis's that point out the obvious stuff, but I think, in my experience anyway, I've found more anime analysis that pointed out stuff I wasn't aware of.

Manaban said:
HopefulNihilist said:
\

I was asking for examples.
You would know that, if you had common sense.
But no you don't: you have anger issues, so you take them out on people you had beef with MONTHS ago on the internet.
Well, at least you're not physically assaulting anyone, as far as I know.

again, acting like you're specifically discriminated against in regards to someone taking issue with you acting like a moron and then trying to levy as many personal insults at them as possible to try to discredit them

wonderful


No, YOU are the one who's acting like a moron: YOU'RE the one who keeps going onto the threads of someone you clearly had beef with, trying to provoke them.
Why don't you address that, hmm? Cat got your tongue?
It's one thing to CRITICIZE (I'm using all caps in case you skim), it's another thing to INSULT: You are INSULTING me, not CRITICIZING me, kapish?
I'm not acting like I'm "discriminated" against. Fuck, I don't know anything about discrimination: I'm a Turkish privilege white guy from America.
"You don't need a reason to live, you just live"
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Jun 17, 10:11 AM

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Anime analysts are usually -relatively- young people with zero experience with formal analysis beyond self-taught concepts and research, and this shows. This doesn't mean that they aren't useful, but they are probably never going to be as insightful and thorough as, say, what a literary critic with enough academic experience can bring.

When people say that anitubers are shallow it doesn't mean that they aren't entertaining, that they aren't right, or even that they aren't insightful at times. It just means that they have their limitations because they lack professional and academic training on the subject, because they are young, because they haven't pursued further into both media and formal analysis, and because anime doesn't have much of a big, established tradition on this matter in the West.
 
Jun 17, 10:13 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:
84DaysWithout said:
>And so on. I think my real question is: what makes literary and film critics better than anime analysis?

In terms of literature we have rigorous academic programs that specifically teach us how to analyze and grant access to an enormous database of journals that can be used as sources. Most great literary criticism is from scholars with post graduate degrees that they use to explore a work in a specific context. There is no such thing for anime that I know of, at least in the West where I think we're limited in comparison to Japan, and you can create a well received video without needing as much research as you do to explore a novel using a specific approach. Digibro in the past has complained about not being privy to the wealth of information that college institutions have that could assist his knowledge, and he does have a lot of videos where his opinion overrides the amount of objective research he puts into a video. Literary criticism is also verrrrry old, whereas anime criticism is comparably new.

Literature is also less accessible than visual media, so I'd guess the people who actually commit hours of their time to read are more likely to form concise takeaways.


Okay, that's something I haven't thought of: how literary critics receive actual academic teachings. But what do those academic teachings teach that anitubers aren't aware of?


Citing all sources, using specific theories/critical approaches to examine literature through (i.e feminism, post structural, postmodernism), just having access to a wealth of trusted information that is locked behind a subscription or some university privilege, receiving constructive criticism to improve rather than having to filter the online trolls for good advice

I wouldn't say anitubers are unaware of these things. But they just don't have to follow these rules to produce well received videos whereas in academia you have to meet all sorts of guidelines before a paper is publishable. You can also say nothing of unique value in an anime video and still be well received because of great editing. IIRC Digibro complained about this in his "shit talking anitubers" rant
changelog said:
I have never read Berserk, nor do I plan to in the future, but I can already see this to be the case. It is just ridiculous that Bersek has been publishing for so long and as you have mentioned I doubt the creators really have a passion for this series anymore. It would be hilarious if they just left it incomplete and left a message saying "Fuck You" in Japanese. And by incomplete I don't mean releasing a final chapter and then never touching the series again, I mean releasing a half-done chapter that finishes on a page where Griffith is about to reveal a secret but there is no next page.
 
Jun 17, 10:13 AM

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jal90 said:
Anime analysts are usually -relatively- young people with zero experience with formal analysis beyond self-taught concepts and research, and this shows. This doesn't mean that they aren't useful, but they are probably never going to be as insightful and thorough as, say, what a literary critic with enough academic experience can bring.

When people say that anitubers are shallow it doesn't mean that they aren't entertaining, that they aren't right, or even that they aren't insightful at times. It just means that they have their limitations because they lack professional and academic training on the subject, because they are young, because they haven't pursued further into both media and formal analysis, and because anime doesn't have much of a big, established tradition on this matter in the West.


I've heard that argument on this thread, but again, could someone please give an example, like, I dunno, a comparison between how an anituber analyzes a fictional media, vs a film/literary critic who's been trained?

@Manaban

You're immature. Disgusting. A creep. A bully. You're literally the average high schooler, but worse.
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Jun 17, 10:13 AM
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Personally speaking there are many video analysis that impressed me.
A recent one would be:
https://youtu.be/61Kh28P2Pgk

I can't say how low this situates when compared to criticism in film or literature, I don't have enough experience on that yet.
 
Jun 17, 10:16 AM

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Kuraya said:
Personally speaking there are many video analysis that impressed me.
A recent one would be:
https://youtu.be/61Kh28P2Pgk

I can't say how low this situates when compared to criticism in film or literature, I don't have enough experience on that yet.


I think I watched that video before, and I don't think I was too impressed by it: I remember the video maker was basically just comparing Fate/Zero to a Greek tragedy, which I think was done before.
"You don't need a reason to live, you just live"
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Jun 17, 10:17 AM

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Anime criticism are usually crafted by some basement dwellers with second-hand knowledge whereas film/literary criticism are by people who do usually know what they are talking about.

Jokes aside, they are just not remarkable like CHC said. They only scratch the surface of things in a mix of informed opinions with common sense criticism (or a lack thereof) that appeal to their public, which might be a fun watch but isn't capable of changing someone outlook on things if they consume any other kind of media.
 
Jun 17, 10:19 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:
No, YOU are the one who's acting like a moron: YOU'RE the one who keeps going onto the threads of someone you clearly had beef with, trying to provoke them.
Why don't you address that, hmm? Cat got your tongue?

for god's sake nihil

it wasn't a part of this conversation previously, and the last time i showed up in one of your threads was months upon months ago at that

also you were the one who brought the topic of some non-existent beef targeted specifically at you up in the first place, this exists only in your mind, both in this thread and beyond it


HopefulNihilist said:
It's one thing to CRITICIZE (I'm using all caps in case you skim), it's another thing to INSULT: You are INSULTING me, not CRITICIZING me, kapish?

I am

this was never up for debate

what's up for debate is that i'm insulting you because you're *you* and not because you happened to be the one to make this thread, which is rooted in you having ridiculously poor discussion etiquette moreso than anything

HopefulNihilist said:
Fuck, I don't know anything about discrimination: I'm a Turkish privilege white guy from America.

then why are you acting like my issue with your thread is that you were the one making it, and not the way you went about making this thread in general, whenever i made that pretty overtly obvious in the issue

what the hell does your ethnicity have to do with any of this, the entire issue is acting like i'm showing up only to start shit with you, hence i'd be discriminative towards you in this case, whenever i would've said the exact same shit to anybody who made this thread on this premise

HopefulNihilist said:
You're immature. Disgusting. A creep. A bully. You're literally the average high schooler, but worse.

speaking of me being a bully, i thought you blocked me because you thought i was one a while back

i could've made a comment on a public forum thread and you could've had all of the benefits associated with blocking me at your disposal, but yet you turned it into acting like i'm targeting you specifically for harassment or something, and now we're here

thanks nihil

---

also this is worth noting

HopefulNihilist said:
Manaban said:
Thousands upon thousands of years of academia and philosophy regarding literary criticism from prominent thinkers and understanding what these concepts mean and how they apply to critique? Studies, treatises, books, theories, schools of thought, literally everything beyond "I watch anime and think dis was gud and dun liek this"


I was asking for examples.
Modified by Manaban, Jun 17, 10:26 AM
 
Jun 17, 10:20 AM

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Not going to disagree that there are fewer impressive anime analysts than film analysts (duh! the anime community in the West is much smaller and has less formal training of criticism). However, decent analysis does seem to pop up often. I really like Aleczandxr's videos for his take on the philosophical themes in anime.

An example (Fatalism vs Determinism in Steins;Gate):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gu7lI4N5zU
 
Jun 17, 10:22 AM
Nana Deviluke❤️

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Just being real
I don't think someone saying something I didn't notice or think of is impressive

Doesn't matter what medium really
I like watching Collective Learning but I'm never impressed with his work despite liking some of the videos from him
 
Jun 17, 10:27 AM

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Manaban said:

it wasn't a part of this conversation previously, and the last time i showed up in one of your threads was months upon months ago at that


You showed up in my thread where I asked people how the anime community compares to other communities.

Manaban said:
also you were the one who brought the topic of some non-existent beef targeted specifically at you up in the first place, this exists only in your mind, both in this thread and beyond it


Cut the BS: if we didn't have beef, why did we spend hours and hours arguing months ago?

Manaban said:

what's up for debate is that i'm insulting you because you're *you* and not because you happened to be the one to make this thread


Then answer the fucking question: why do you keep appearing in my threads, when you clearly don't like me? Get the fuck out. Piss off. Shoo.

Manaban said:

then why are you acting like my issue with your thread is that you were the one making it, and not the way you went about making this thread in general, whenever i made that pretty overtly obvious in the issue


I don't care what your reason for showing up on my thread just to diss me is. I don't trust anything that comes out of you.

Manaban said:
what the hell does your ethnicity have to do with any of this, the entire issue is acting like i'm showing up only to start shit with you, hence i'd be discriminative towards you in this case,


I brought up my ethnicity as a joke, because you mentioned discrimination.

Manaban said:
whenever i would've said the exact same shit to anybody who made this thread on this premise


I don't care: you show up to my thread just to pick a fight with me, I'm taking that personnel.

Manaban said:

speaking of me being a bully, i thought you blocked me because you thought i was one a while back


So?

Manaban said:
i could've made a comment on a public forum thread and you could've had all of the benefits associated with blocking me at your disposal, but yet you turned it into acting like i'm targeting you specifically for harassment or something


Yeah you are targeting me specifically: stop making it sound as though this isn't personnel. How stupid do you think I am?
Oh yeah, you called me a MORON earlier, and for that I reported you.
"You can't handle criticism" is some bullshit you're about to say: cut the bullshit out already. My issue with you was never you criticizing me: my issue with you is that you're rude. Simple as that.
"You don't need a reason to live, you just live"
-Nero Vanetti, 91 Days



 
Jun 17, 10:27 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:
@KindUnicorn

Okay, I keep hearing people say, "anitubers don't make good analysis's", but not WHY they don't make good analysis's.


Again asking why is more of a philosophical question I don't know what goes inside their heads I can only guess and my guess is that making pseudo-intellectual videos makes them appear more intelligent then they actually are(kind a like people who use big words in casual conversations) in the eyes of the YouTube audience.

And if people perceive them to be intelligent they might watch their content which in turn will bring them revenue.
Of course they could also be ignorant instead or the combination of the two.
 
Jun 17, 10:33 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:
jal90 said:
Anime analysts are usually -relatively- young people with zero experience with formal analysis beyond self-taught concepts and research, and this shows. This doesn't mean that they aren't useful, but they are probably never going to be as insightful and thorough as, say, what a literary critic with enough academic experience can bring.

When people say that anitubers are shallow it doesn't mean that they aren't entertaining, that they aren't right, or even that they aren't insightful at times. It just means that they have their limitations because they lack professional and academic training on the subject, because they are young, because they haven't pursued further into both media and formal analysis, and because anime doesn't have much of a big, established tradition on this matter in the West.


I've heard that argument on this thread, but again, could someone please give an example, like, I dunno, a comparison between how an anituber analyzes a fictional media, vs a film/literary critic who's been trained?

@Manaban

You're immature. Disgusting. A creep. A bully. You're literally the average high schooler, but worse.

I think you are looking for examples on something that is not easy to put as specific examples. I am not a media analyst/critic so I can't tell you, but when people find this content shallow it's usually not for a sole reason, it's for a lack of an overall deep or thorough research.

If a video on an aspect of anime history forgets about crucial events in its development, if it doesn't display knowledge about the sociocultural context of Japan and how do they connect, if it relies on mistranslations or biased interpretations, these are concrete elements that can be pointed out in specific videos. However in most cases it's just a matter of superficiality. Conclusions that are too simple or too easy, or not taking into account more than a few factors.
 
Jun 17, 10:35 AM

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jal90 said:
If a video on an aspect of anime history forgets about crucial events in its development, if it doesn't display knowledge about the sociocultural context of Japan and how do they connect, if it relies on mistranslations or biased interpretations, these are concrete elements that can be pointed out in specific videos. However in most cases it's just a matter of superficiality. Conclusions that are too simple or too easy, or not taking into account more than a few factors.


I think I'm starting to understand now: are you saying that anime analysis's are basic when they don't analyze the grander scheme of background context?
"You don't need a reason to live, you just live"
-Nero Vanetti, 91 Days



 
Jun 17, 10:37 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:

You showed up in my thread where I asked people how the anime community compares to other communities.

okay, i'll give you that, now what about the last time i showed up in one of your threads before one time an hour or two ago

HopefulNihilist said:

Cut the BS: if we didn't have beef, why did we spend hours and hours arguing months ago?

i've spent hours arguing with people who are some of my closest friends on this site

why does spending hours arguing suddenly equate to having personal issue

i do have a personal issue with you, admittedly, but it's because of your tendency to act like this and not because i've fought with you

personal issues don't bleed into every action or interaction with a person, though, no matter how much you want to frame it like so

HopefulNihilist said:

Then answer the fucking question: why do you keep appearing in my threads, when you clearly don't like me? Get the fuck out. Piss off. Shoo.

i am sorry that you cannot control or coerce people you don't want to appear in your threads to not appear in them whenever you make them a public discussion to every user of these forums, i guess?

HopefulNihilist said:

]I don't care what your reason for showing up on my thread just to diss me is. I don't trust anything that comes out of you.

that's your prerogative, not mine, but i am within my boundaries to defend myself whenever you begin wantonly accusing me of targeted harassment towards you

HopefulNihilist said:

I don't care: you show up to my thread just to pick a fight with me, I'm taking that personnel.

that's your problem and i don't see why you need to force your bastardized narrative of what's leading me to respond to this thread onto me


i literally answered that in the next part of the post you're quoting

do not ask me "So?" because you cannot view responses complexly enough to encompass more than 1 paragraph = 1 train of thought

HopefulNihilist said:

Yeah you are targeting me specifically: stop making it sound as though this isn't personnel.

it really isn't though

HopefulNihilist said:

How stupid do you think I am?

remarkably so, but considering what you're making an issue of here, i'd also accuse you of paranoia

HopefulNihilist said:

Oh yeah, you called me a MORON earlier, and for that I reported you.

i'm fine with that

HopefulNihilist said:

"You can't handle criticism" is some bullshit you're about to say: cut the bullshit out already. My issue with you was never you criticizing me: my issue with you is that you're rude. Simple as that.

i never had any intent to say that, nor have i ever said that in response to anybody on this entire site because i feel it's a stupid thing to accuse people of in a heated discussion

you're projecting behaviors onto me at this point, which in turn does kind of support my theory that you try really hard to build a narrative to yourself about me being a villain who's only ever out to get you and you specifically, same with the accusations of being a bully and whatnot

also your issue this entire time has been that you felt like i was targeting you for harassment and accusing me of as much, why is it suddenly just that i'm rude

Modified by Manaban, Jun 17, 10:43 AM
 
Jun 17, 10:45 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:
jal90 said:
If a video on an aspect of anime history forgets about crucial events in its development, if it doesn't display knowledge about the sociocultural context of Japan and how do they connect, if it relies on mistranslations or biased interpretations, these are concrete elements that can be pointed out in specific videos. However in most cases it's just a matter of superficiality. Conclusions that are too simple or too easy, or not taking into account more than a few factors.


I think I'm starting to understand now: are you saying that anime analysis's are basic when they don't analyze the grander scheme of background context?

This may be one aspect, but of course I don't think background context is the sole element. It's just something that is crucial for proper media analysis because it conditions your premises and approach to the matter in question.
 
Jun 17, 10:55 AM

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Manaban said:

okay, i'll give you that, now what about the last time i showed up in one of your threads before one time an hour or two ago


Why does that matter?

Manaban said:

why does spending hours arguing suddenly equate to having personal issue


It does when you started throwing insults at me back then.

Manaban said:
i do have a personal issue with you, admittedly, but it's because of your tendency to act like this and not because i've fought with you


I'm defending myself from your harassment.

Manaban said:
personal issues don't bleed into every action or interaction with a person, though, no matter how much you want to frame it like so


You appeared in my thread with the intention to provoke me: what do you call that?

Manaban said:

i am sorry that you cannot control or coerce people you don't want to appear in your threads to not appear in them whenever you make them a public discussion to every user of these forums, i guess?


You're not answering the question: you avoid questions that'll destroy you.

Manaban said:

that's your prerogative, not mine, but i am within my boundaries to defend myself whenever you begin wantonly accusing me of targeted harassment towards you


You are harassing me. If not, what do you call it?

Manaban said:

that's your problem and i don't see why you need to force your bastardized narrative of what's leading me to respond to this thread onto me


Then why are you appearing in my thread? Don't tell me it's because I'm dumb: you made it clear months ago, you would stop appearing in my threads. Why didn't you avoid this thread the moment you saw who made it?

Manaban said:

it really isn't though


Then what is it?

Manaban said:
remarkably so, but considering what you're making an issue of here, i'd also accuse you of paranoia


Okay.

Manaban said:

you're projecting behaviors onto me at this point, which in turn does kind of support my theory that you try really hard to build a narrative to yourself about me being a villain who's only ever out to get you and you specifically, same with the accusations of being a bully and whatnot


You have constantly appeared in my threads just to insult me. That's what a bully does.

Manaban said:
also your issue this entire time has been that you felt like i was targeting you for harassment and accusing me of as much, why is it suddenly just that i'm rude


You're both: a harasser and a rude person.
"You don't need a reason to live, you just live"
-Nero Vanetti, 91 Days



 
Jun 17, 10:59 AM

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Greyleaf said:
desusama said:
On a more serious note it's usually because of the stigma of anime not being considered "intelligent" enough to analyze. Most people are either in the "lol Chinesee cartoons" or the "lemme just watch my shows and have a good time" camps so they don't put much value into anime analysis.

This is honestly a bit sad to me. As someone who did a bit of film criticism in college, once I began watching anime more frequently a few years back I realized that it has much more artistic merit as a medium at large than anyone ever seems to give it credit for. Animation itself is a far more versatile medium than live-action, especially when it comes to symbolic imagery. So yeah, the people out there who think that way are just closed-minded or conditioned to false beliefs.

And no, I'm not saying that symbolism or analyses are important to everyone, or that everyone cares enough to research into things that way, but it blows my mind that some people would outright disregard the true masterpieces out there as intelligent works.


That's just how it is. The anime fanbase doesn't help much either since attempts to analyze the deeper meaning behind shows are labelled as pretentious.
 
Jun 17, 11:15 AM
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desusama said:
Greyleaf said:

This is honestly a bit sad to me. As someone who did a bit of film criticism in college, once I began watching anime more frequently a few years back I realized that it has much more artistic merit as a medium at large than anyone ever seems to give it credit for. Animation itself is a far more versatile medium than live-action, especially when it comes to symbolic imagery. So yeah, the people out there who think that way are just closed-minded or conditioned to false beliefs.

And no, I'm not saying that symbolism or analyses are important to everyone, or that everyone cares enough to research into things that way, but it blows my mind that some people would outright disregard the true masterpieces out there as intelligent works.


That's just how it is. The anime fanbase doesn't help much either since attempts to analyze the deeper meaning behind shows are labelled as pretentious.

Idk, analyzing the deeper meaning of just about anything is half of the enjoyment for me. Anime is no exception to this. Of course there are plenty of "face-value" shows I turn my brain off for to enjoy a laugh or whatnot, but I couldn't imagine watching something thought-provoking without dissecting it afterwards lol
 
Jun 17, 11:19 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:

What they said really interested me and got me thinking: why don't many people find anitubers' anime analysis to be impressive?


Perhaps it's because of the relatively small scope that anime itself covers on a cultural and literary level. Film and plays have cemented themselves as the forefront of storytelling through visual media and have been so ages and ages. Anime is comparatively new and niche. Thus, even if an anituber makes an impressive analysis piece that explores several aspects of the anime as well as providing context on the level of a proper film critic/analyzer, it'll always be looked down on as more "hobbyist" in it's conception (the actual video as well as the anime itself).

I should add for @jal90 that there are groups like Sakugablog who analyze anime who take the context of the anime's creation into account and have direct connections to the industry itself without being shillers for major western production companies. Would you put those types on the same level as anitubers?
Stay strong, KyoAni.
 
Jun 17, 11:22 AM
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I love Anime-analysis, when the main purpose of it is
to dickride my favourite anime.
 
Jun 17, 11:25 AM
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jal90 said:
Anime analysts are usually -relatively- young people with zero experience with formal analysis beyond self-taught concepts and research, and this shows. This doesn't mean that they aren't useful, but they are probably never going to be as insightful and thorough as, say, what a literary critic with enough academic experience can bring.

When people say that anitubers are shallow it doesn't mean that they aren't entertaining, that they aren't right, or even that they aren't insightful at times. It just means that they have their limitations because they lack professional and academic training on the subject, because they are young, because they haven't pursued further into both media and formal analysis, and because anime doesn't have much of a big, established tradition on this matter in the West.
84DaysWithout said:
Citing all sources, using specific theories/critical approaches to examine literature through (i.e feminism, post structural, postmodernism), just having access to a wealth of trusted information that is locked behind a subscription or some university privilege, receiving constructive criticism to improve rather than having to filter the online trolls for good advice

I wouldn't say anitubers are unaware of these things. But they just don't have to follow these rules to produce well received videos whereas in academia you have to meet all sorts of guidelines before a paper is publishable. You can also say nothing of unique value in an anime video and still be well received because of great editing. IIRC Digibro complained about this in his "shit talking anitubers" rant
Manaban said:
trained professionals who have devoted their lives to academic studies in these fields as opposed to being some mongoloid who made a YT channel and likes anime and ultimately has the discussion ability of a high-end AD poster at *best*? Thousands upon thousands of years of academia and philosophy regarding literary criticism from prominent thinkers and understanding what these concepts mean and how they apply to critique? Studies, treatises, books, theories, schools of thought, literally everything beyond "I watch anime and think dis was gud and dun liek this" which is about the breadth of an opinion that the vast majority of anitubers can put out?

It's like asking what an art major has that makes them more knowledgeable on the topic than a kid sitting at home with a watercolors set.
@HopefulNihilist, you're not going to get much of a better answer to your OP than these. They answer your question most aptly and if you aren't satisfied with that then you're asking the wrong questions, your OP doesn't ask for examples. If you want examples go read the works of philosophers, @CHC himself has cited Immanuel Kant and Friedrich Nietzsche a lot and recommends them specifically a few times if i recall, and has more on his about me.



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whether you make it or not.
 
Jun 17, 11:41 AM

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raisin-kun said:
I should add for @jal90 that there are groups like Sakugablog who analyze anime who take the context of the anime's creation into account and have direct connections to the industry itself without being shillers for major western production companies. Would you put those types on the same level as anitubers?

Not at all, of course. Sakugablog is heavy in research. I don't particularly enjoy their analysis though because they are production notes more than anything, but they are a very reliable source for that and they go into them pretty thoroughly which is great if you are into that aspect of anime analysis.
 
Jun 17, 11:52 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:
why don't many people find anitubers' anime analysis to be impressive?

[...]

I think my real question is: what makes literary and film critics better than anime analysis's?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't consider literary/film critics to be particularly interesting or worth my attention either.

Ironically I probably have seen more anime analysis than literature/film analysis, solely because I've looked for more opinions on anime than opinions on literature/film.

But I also pick and choose.

Your video embed is broken, but I know that I'm only interested in a subset of analysis videos. Based on the video title you mentioned, I'd be mildly curious (since I have watched Neon Genesis Evangelion) though I'd also expect Digibro's choice of "ten cuts" to not be something I'd agree with, considering that my vision of the story is has a heavy focus on the progression of extremes faced by the characters and seeing the Angels as symbolic steps toward and dramatic endgame, while I don't care much about the details of the series lore, and considering that I've drastically disagreed with Digibro on other stuff. Based on this, my boredness threshold for watching it is probably "pretty bored", particularly since I might feel the need to argue with the video afterwards.
 
Jun 17, 12:04 PM
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GlennMagusHarvey said:
HopefulNihilist said:
why don't many people find anitubers' anime analysis to be impressive?

[...]

I think my real question is: what makes literary and film critics better than anime analysis's?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't consider literary/film critics to be particularly interesting or worth my attention either.

Ironically I probably have seen more anime analysis than literature/film analysis, solely because I've looked for more opinions on anime than opinions on literature/film.

But I also pick and choose.
There is quite a lot of overlap, if not short of entirely, with the core of film critique and other mediums like anime, it's just another form of the same thing. If you're really into the process of analysis you'd probably come up with better and more concise opinions than those you look for from most anitubers if you deep dive into film analysis, assuming you haven't already done that.



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whether you make it or not.
 
Jun 17, 12:17 PM

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HopefulNihilist said:

Why does that matter?

Because the last response in any of your threads that I posted - the one that was made a few hours ago - was made completely independent of you or anything you were doing in that thread. It's totally irrelevant to the behaviors you're trying to accuse me of here.

Furthermore, highlighting my own scarcity in your threads serves to be the counterpoint to your accusations of me being a constant presence meant to harass you when I show up in one of your threads. I am about as much of a constant presence as I am out to harass you, neither of which are things that can be upheld under scrutiny.

Which it is extremely scarce, precisely because you tend to act like this at the slightest bit of snark while simultaneously trying to (very poorly) gaslight me as being the one to possess anger issues or a lack of emotional stability or control in my own responses. This is illustrated in this very thread, when you immediately started trying to frame me as having psychological deficiencies immediately after my initial response, which considering what my initial response to this thread was and what it entailed, is pretty much the spitting definition of unwarranted escalation.

Seriously, gaslighting is a far more repulsive and disgusting behavior than anything I've displayed at you, in this thread or any others we've spoken in, yet you make use of it frequently towards me whenever you try to make problems such as this whenever I appear in a thread you made, in ways attempting to be public denouncements of my character at that.

HopefulNihilist said:
It does when you started throwing insults at me back then.

Which I brought up on my own intiative a grand total of 0 times in my response to this thread's premise of isolating a single user's response to you and removing it from the context of your discussion to take it into a thread full of uninvited people to respond to yours and his discussion.

*You* intitiated the discussion involving past hostilities while simultaneously accusing *me* of being the one obsessed with them because I met that behavior with a snarky reply while questioning why you didn't go about handling your conversation with the user in question better. You're bringing it up and framing it as the issue here again, whereas the only time I've ever brought up any past hostilities is directly responding to your accusations towards me of indulging the exact same behavior you've frequently been displaying yourself.

HopefulNihilist said:
You appeared in my thread with the intention to provoke me: what do you call that?

Was I snarky in my response? Yes. If you take offense with that, fair enough; it won't stop me or make me apologetic, frankly, but you're not obligated to respond positively to snark being directed towards you.

Is being snarky inherently trying to provoke a flame war? I'd answer that with a no, albeit it's context reliant. In this case, however, I underlined the primary point of contention with your behavior towards the other user in question and general discussion etiquette involved in taking somebody's conversation with you in another thread and then pretty much attempting to (noncon) make their response to you a matter of greater public contention by shining this direct a spotlight onto it. It is not a matter of dynamic or evolving discussion gaining attention naturally in this case, it's forcing it into a spotlight that it wasn't even close to possessing prior.

I think it's difficult to make the case that this snark was made with the pure purpose of harrassing you or being inciteful towards you specifically with as much in mind. It was snark directed at a single action you took, and that casus belli for being snarky was clearly outlined in the post you responded to.

HopefulNihilist said:
You're not answering the question: you avoid questions that'll destroy you.

I've answered it several times. I'm not out to target you specifically in some grander scheme of planned harassment and targeted bullying towards you. I've been a scarce, if not entirely absent, presence in your threads for months on end now, and you're trying to create a narrative of you being unable to avoid my attempts at bullying you on this site out of as much.

You explicitly refused to acknowledge this because you don't trust me. You're not obligated to trust me, but that doesn't change that this the answer I'm giving to your question. This is the answer that has been laid out several times in response to your question. You not acknowledging an answer doesn't suddenly negate it being a given response from the other party.

HopefulNihilist said:
You are harassing me. If not, what do you call it?

I call it responding to a thread, Nihil.

I am not seeking you out beyond the context of this board. Every single time we've talked outside of AD, you came to me to talk and sought me out on your own accord. I am not siccing other people on you and I am not stalking you by responding to threads you're making on this board whenever I am an active user of this board. I'm not spreading rumors about you, nor am I doing things that would have the intention of isolating you or any other behaviors. I am responding to a fucking thread you made on a discussion board I am an active member of, with the caveat that you dislike me and my responses to things, which isn't in any way an obstacle that's going to keep me from saying my piece.

That's really as complex as it is. You don't like me or what I have to say, and I'm not especially concerned with that in of itself, but it doesn't mean I'm running fucking harassment campaigns towards you. You're the one making it out to be such.

HopefulNihilist said:
Then why are you appearing in my thread? Don't tell me it's because I'm dumb: you made it clear months ago, you would stop appearing in my threads. Why didn't you avoid this thread the moment you saw who made it?

How is it even remotely fair to me to try to obligate me not to respond to threads you make because you don't like me personally? I don't care whether or not you dislike me personally, it's not going to stop me from participating in a thread if I have something to say.

Behaving like this towards me every time I pop up also isn't going to have that effect, I'm sorry to tell you.

HopefulNihilist said:
Then what is it?

"Responding to a thread on a discussion board that I am a member of," like I've been saying. Because that's all I'm doing. You are not as relevant to me as to specifically pull me towards or deter me from responding to a thread - or, rather, I'm not going to let you be a deterrent, even if the headache of you inevitably responding to me by trying to publicly accuse me of running a targeted harassment campaign against you is something I'd rather not deal with. It'd be weak and pathetic of me to kowtow to behavior like that.

The only way you're going to get me to never say anything is if you either start making actual use of that block you've put on me, or if my membership on this site gets revoked. I encourage the former, as it's healthier for everybody involved if this is the only way you're capable of responding to my presence in a thread you made, and trying to force the latter would *actually* be trying to run a harassment campaign towards me by trying to force me off of the site.

HopefulNihilist said:
You have constantly appeared in my threads just to insult me. That's what a bully does.

Sarcasm about the premise of a thread you made isn't necessarily demeaning you or undermining your character, or even namecalling. That's important to note, because being sarcastic about the premise of this thread was all I did before you accused me of needing to see a therapist and other forms of namecalling or character diminuation.

I am not on your level here, even if you want to act like we're both doing something wrong to try to deter negativity away from your own behavior or whatever your intent may be behind lines like the one about pissing in the street earlier.

Also, again, I am a very scarce presence in your threads and trying to frame me as a constant presence in them is being outright dishonest. All anybody needs to do to understand that is look at how many times I've replied to a thread you've made in the past few months.

HopefulNihilist said:
You're both: a harasser and a rude person.

I'll cede being rude, and I'll cede having been rude to you specifically in the past. I just happen to not care because I'm not trying to get St. Peter to call my name with the way I respond to people on this board and I'm fine with people thinking I'm an asshole, especially because of my confidence in my ability to pull out that behavior in response to actions that warrant it to an appropriate degree, i.e. why I didn't meet your thread with accusations or namecalling like you met me with, but just some base snark.

But you're not being harassed here by me acting like that in your thread, especially when you've ever been the only one to specifically seek me in any form of non-public communication and you've consistently been the one to initiate the accusative and personal attack behavior, as you did here and as you've done every time in the past. You are not being bullied, and trying to frame me saying stuff like I did at the start of this thread as me actively seeking to bully or harass you over a longer-period of time is a dangerous accusation to make as well as one rooted in absolute hyperbole and being overwrought in your response to me.
Modified by Manaban, Jun 17, 12:35 PM
 
Jun 17, 12:19 PM

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Lunilah said:
GlennMagusHarvey said:
I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't consider literary/film critics to be particularly interesting or worth my attention either.

Ironically I probably have seen more anime analysis than literature/film analysis, solely because I've looked for more opinions on anime than opinions on literature/film.

But I also pick and choose.
There is quite a lot of overlap, if not short of entirely, with the core of film critique and other mediums like anime, it's just another form of the same thing. If you're really into the process of analysis you'd probably come up with better and more concise opinions than those you look for from most anitubers if you deep dive into film analysis, assuming you haven't already done that.
There's an essentially endless number of ways to analyze something, but I'm not familiar with the way literary/film critique does its analysis, so I can't speak for how interested I'd be in in that particular perspective, nor can I make a good comparison. (I rarely even watch films themselves.)
 
Jun 17, 12:24 PM
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GlennMagusHarvey said:
Lunilah said:
There is quite a lot of overlap, if not short of entirely, with the core of film critique and other mediums like anime, it's just another form of the same thing. If you're really into the process of analysis you'd probably come up with better and more concise opinions than those you look for from most anitubers if you deep dive into film analysis, assuming you haven't already done that.
There's an essentially endless number of ways to analyze something, but I'm not familiar with the way literary/film critique does its analysis, so I can't speak for how interested I'd be in in that particular perspective, nor can I make a good comparison. (I rarely even watch films themselves.)
Well if you rarely watch films i guess the motivation would have to purely be analytical, which sounds quite boring. If an opportunity presents itself definitely take advantage of it.



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whether you make it or not.
 
Jun 17, 12:30 PM
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you really like anitubers especially Digibro lol

but anyway Digibro for example talks none sense when it comes to actual anime production stuff for example and that alone makes you wary of his ideas

but ye Digibro is good in talking about philiosophy or just ideas stuff of the anime and its story particularly

and really criticism should be about constructive criticism that means include both positive and negative things about the show and then add suggestions on how to improve the negatives for future works either spin-offs, influenced/clone/copycat works
 
Jun 17, 1:07 PM

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Manaban said:
HopefulNihilist said:

Why does that matter?

Because the last response in any of your threads that I posted - the one that was made a few hours ago - was made completely independent of you or anything you were doing in that thread. It's totally irrelevant to the behaviors you're trying to accuse me of here.

Furthermore, highlighting my own scarcity in your threads serves to be the counterpoint to your accusations of me being a constant presence meant to harass you when I show up in one of your threads. I am about as much of a constant presence as I am out to harass you, neither of which are things that can be upheld under scrutiny.

Which it is extremely scarce, precisely because you tend to act like this at the slightest bit of snark while simultaneously trying to (very poorly) gaslight me as being the one to possess anger issues or a lack of emotional stability or control in my own responses. This is illustrated in this very thread, when you immediately started trying to frame me as having psychological deficiencies immediately after my initial response, which considering what my initial response to this thread was and what it entailed, is pretty much the spitting definition of unwarranted escalation.

Seriously, gaslighting is a far more repulsive and disgusting behavior than anything I've displayed at you, in this thread or any others we've spoken in, yet you make use of it frequently towards me whenever you try to make problems such as this whenever I appear in a thread you made, in ways attempting to be public denouncements of my character at that.

HopefulNihilist said:
It does when you started throwing insults at me back then.

Which I brought up on my own intiative a grand total of 0 times in my response to this thread's premise of isolating a single user's response to you and removing it from the context of your discussion to take it into a thread full of uninvited people to respond to yours and his discussion.

*You* intitiated the discussion involving past hostilities while simultaneously accusing *me* of being the one obsessed with them because I met that behavior with a snarky reply while questioning why you didn't go about handling your conversation with the user in question better. You're bringing it up and framing it as the issue here again, whereas the only time I've ever brought up any past hostilities is directly responding to your accusations towards me of indulging the exact same behavior you've frequently been displaying yourself.

HopefulNihilist said:
You appeared in my thread with the intention to provoke me: what do you call that?

Was I snarky in my response? Yes. If you take offense with that, fair enough; it won't stop me or make me apologetic, frankly, but you're not obligated to respond positively to snark being directed towards you.

Is being snarky inherently trying to provoke a flame war? I'd answer that with a no, albeit it's context reliant. In this case, however, I underlined the primary point of contention with your behavior towards the other user in question and general discussion etiquette involved in taking somebody's conversation with you in another thread and then pretty much attempting to (noncon) make their response to you a matter of greater public contention by shining this direct a spotlight onto it. It is not a matter of dynamic or evolving discussion gaining attention naturally in this case, it's forcing it into a spotlight that it wasn't even close to possessing prior.

I think it's difficult to make the case that this snark was made with the pure purpose of harrassing you or being inciteful towards you specifically with as much in mind. It was snark directed at a single action you took, and that casus belli for being snarky was clearly outlined in the post you responded to.

HopefulNihilist said:
You're not answering the question: you avoid questions that'll destroy you.

I've answered it several times. I'm not out to target you specifically in some grander scheme of planned harassment and targeted bullying towards you. I've been a scarce, if not entirely absent, presence in your threads for months on end now, and you're trying to create a narrative of you being unable to avoid my attempts at bullying you on this site out of as much.

You explicitly refused to acknowledge this because you don't trust me. You're not obligated to trust me, but that doesn't change that this the answer I'm giving to your question. This is the answer that has been laid out several times in response to your question. You not acknowledging an answer doesn't suddenly negate it being a given response from the other party.

HopefulNihilist said:
You are harassing me. If not, what do you call it?

I call it responding to a thread, Nihil.

I am not seeking you out beyond the context of this board. Every single time we've talked outside of AD, you came to me to talk and sought me out on your own accord. I am not siccing other people on you and I am not stalking you by responding to threads you're making on this board whenever I am an active user of this board. I'm not spreading rumors about you, nor am I doing things that would have the intention of isolating you or any other behaviors. I am responding to a fucking thread you made on a discussion board I am an active member of, with the caveat that you dislike me and my responses to things, which isn't in any way an obstacle that's going to keep me from saying my piece.

That's really as complex as it is. You don't like me or what I have to say, and I'm not especially concerned with that in of itself, but it doesn't mean I'm running fucking harassment campaigns towards you. You're the one making it out to be such.

HopefulNihilist said:
Then why are you appearing in my thread? Don't tell me it's because I'm dumb: you made it clear months ago, you would stop appearing in my threads. Why didn't you avoid this thread the moment you saw who made it?

How is it even remotely fair to me to try to obligate me not to respond to threads you make because you don't like me personally? I don't care whether or not you dislike me personally, it's not going to stop me from participating in a thread if I have something to say.

Behaving like this towards me every time I pop up also isn't going to have that effect, I'm sorry to tell you.

HopefulNihilist said:
Then what is it?

"Responding to a thread on a discussion board that I am a member of," like I've been saying. Because that's all I'm doing. You are not as relevant to me as to specifically pull me towards or deter me from responding to a thread - or, rather, I'm not going to let you be a deterrent, even if the headache of you inevitably responding to me by trying to publicly accuse me of running a targeted harassment campaign against you is something I'd rather not deal with. It'd be weak and pathetic of me to kowtow to behavior like that.

The only way you're going to get me to never say anything is if you either start making actual use of that block you've put on me, or if my membership on this site gets revoked. I encourage the former, as it's healthier for everybody involved if this is the only way you're capable of responding to my presence in a thread you made, and trying to force the latter would *actually* be trying to run a harassment campaign towards me by trying to force me off of the site.

HopefulNihilist said:
You have constantly appeared in my threads just to insult me. That's what a bully does.

Sarcasm about the premise of a thread you made isn't necessarily demeaning you or undermining your character, or even namecalling. That's important to note, because being sarcastic about the premise of this thread was all I did before you accused me of needing to see a therapist and other forms of namecalling or character diminuation.

I am not on your level here, even if you want to act like we're both doing something wrong to try to deter negativity away from your own behavior or whatever your intent may be behind lines like the one about pissing in the street earlier.

Also, again, I am a very scarce presence in your threads and trying to frame me as a constant presence in them is being outright dishonest. All anybody needs to do to understand that is look at how many times I've replied to a thread you've made in the past few months.

HopefulNihilist said:
You're both: a harasser and a rude person.

I'll cede being rude, and I'll cede having been rude to you specifically in the past. I just happen to not care because I'm not trying to get St. Peter to call my name with the way I respond to people on this board and I'm fine with people thinking I'm an asshole, especially because of my confidence in my ability to pull out that behavior in response to actions that warrant it to an appropriate degree, i.e. why I didn't meet your thread with accusations or namecalling like you met me with, but just some base snark.

But you're not being harassed here by me acting like that in your thread, especially when you've ever been the only one to specifically seek me in any form of non-public communication and you've consistently been the one to initiate the accusative and personal attack behavior, as you did here and as you've done every time in the past. You are not being bullied, and trying to frame me saying stuff like I did at the start of this thread as me actively seeking to bully or harass you over a longer-period of time is a dangerous accusation to make as well as one rooted in absolute hyperbole and being overwrought in your response to me.


Alright. You're not a hareasser or a bully: you're just...condescending. One who actively seeks conflict. When your original post is that snarky, condescending, misinformed, of course it's going to result in a flame war.
I already explained to you that this thread came not from an exact response to someone else; I simply got the idea to make this thread, because a new topic idea came to mind when I was talking to someone else. I mentioned that person to credit them for the idea of the thread. Why do you deny this? You're overcomplicating this.
You haven't said anything related to the topic thread in your original post. You still haven't answered why you appeared in this thread.
You're not here to discuss: you're here to provoke me.
"You don't need a reason to live, you just live"
-Nero Vanetti, 91 Days



 
Jun 17, 1:11 PM

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Posts: 4873
Lunilah said:
GlennMagusHarvey said:
There's an essentially endless number of ways to analyze something, but I'm not familiar with the way literary/film critique does its analysis, so I can't speak for how interested I'd be in in that particular perspective, nor can I make a good comparison. (I rarely even watch films themselves.)
Well if you rarely watch films i guess the motivation would have to purely be analytical, which sounds quite boring. If an opportunity presents itself definitely take advantage of it.
?

I'm not sure I understand you, sorry.
 
Jun 17, 1:13 PM

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Posts: 4860
HopefulNihilist said:

Alright. You're not a hareasser or a bully: you're just...condescending. One who actively seeks conflict.

i like this about me so we can agree about that

HopefulNihilist said:
When your original post is that snarky, condescending, misinformed, of course it's going to result in a flame war.

i still heavily contest the "misinformed" bit because i'm still totally right about the way you carried out making this thread at the end of the day and you've done nothing to disprove as much

HopefulNihilist said:
You haven't said anything related to the topic thread in your original post. You still haven't answered why you appeared in this thread.

i'm frequently present in many anituber related threads, if you'd ever take a look, many of which have nothing to do with you

as for the post, the way the OP was handled warranted some snark imo - for shit that i've already explained my position on in reaction to your stated self-defense several times in my responses to you in, i should probably note - and the only reason it escalated like it did was because of your attempts at publicly accusing me of harassing and bullying you and trying to portray me as mentally unstable, which i am going to deny on the basis that you're full of shit about that

HopefulNihilist said:
You're not here to discuss: you're here to provoke me.

Annnnnnnd we've gone full circle again. Back to the "You only exist in threads like this to make me mad!" rhetoric once more.

I've already explained myself and my intentions pretty thoroughly and in a way I'm more than satisfied with. Take it or leave it, I'm not interested in wasting my time entertaining your delusions about my intent towards you any further.

Ciao, spotty.
Modified by Manaban, Jun 17, 1:19 PM
 
Jun 17, 1:25 PM
Slumber

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Posts: 1445
GlennMagusHarvey said:
Lunilah said:
Well if you rarely watch films i guess the motivation would have to purely be analytical, which sounds quite boring. If an opportunity presents itself definitely take advantage of it.
?

I'm not sure I understand you, sorry.
I was just saying that since you rarely watch films, the motivation to even go into film analysis would have to be one that is purely analytical and that would be incredibly boring. But if you watch a movie in future that you specifically really enjoy, take up the opportunity to deep dive into analysis of it.



Life happens wherever you are,
whether you make it or not.
 
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