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Jun 12, 11:04 PM
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GlennMagusHarvey said:
YossaRedMage said:
Also, 'western influence' isn't the same as mainstreamification or westernization. Every time this debate comes up there's someone that repeats the worn-out "but there's western influence"line. Anime with western influence is still Japanese. The concern I and many others share is that anime will become western with Japanese influence. Or worse 'global' and completely lacking in any kind of cultural influence, resulting in a bland inunspired pastiche.
Except anime can't actually be any of these things anyway; these are just summary labels that some people use (and quite inaccurately so) to describe how they see a medium consisting of tens of thousands of shows.

YossaRedMage said:
Also I'm not in the least bit surprised someone who defends the mainstreamifcation and westernization of anime would think that massively overrated, grossly pretentious westaboo trash C&T is the best show of the season.
So is liking Carole & Tuesday considered a bad thing now? How is this guilting people over their tastes any different from what those accursed SJWs are accused of doing?

YossaRedMage said:
And it's also happy to present sexuality in teenagers which is far more interesting time in life sexually as characters will finding their first love and having sex for the first time.
I don't think you've paid much attention to young adult lit in the west.

YossaRedMage said:
Sexuality between teenagers in western media is hardly ever presented with the same respect and care. It's often made out to be kind of sordid like in Skins or similar sorts of teen dramas.
Yes, the "respect and care" of instance after instance of falling-onto-boob-grabs, accidental embarrassing panty shots, boob size jealousy, bouncy boobs, faceplanting into private parts, bouncing tits, oversized tits, faceplanting into oversized tits, butt shots, accidental entry into the ladies' locker room, accidental entry into the ladies' bathroom, and accidentally knocking over hot spring soaking pool dividers. All while fans are complaining that the characters don't just go and sex already.

(Sure, we can pick and choose examples from anime that treat sexuality with actual "respect and care", but we can do the same with western storytelling.)

YossaRedMage said:
I don't know if it's really that accepted when there are huge swaths of the anime community (a little on here, a lot on Reddit, and an infestation on Twitter) that complain about fan service, lolis (even school-age girls) and stuff like slaves in Shield Hero, depiction of rape in Goblin Slayer or depictions of anything resembling 20th century facism. Reddit and Twitter are so paranoid about anime girls because they are presented in a way that is exagerratedly cute that if they have small boobs those companies will think it's underage and censor. Then you have the creator of SAO who has come out repeatedly saying how he wants to change the future of the franchise to "reflect modern global standards". I don't care how much someone hates SAO they have to recognize what an important, influential part of anime it is. If it doesn become 'woke' and continues to see success you can bet other Japanese creators and authors will follow suit. I won't even start on the "modern global standards" cultural imperialism shit. Makes my blood boil, that stuff.
Fanservice has been a topic of disagreement among anime fans since forever, long before this recent fad of/paranoia over "wokeness".

(Meanwhile I'm over here being annoyed that there are not more mature-looking anime girls with flat chests/small breasts.)

Anyhow, you're still seeing this as a grand cultural turf war, which is a vast overblowing of what is basically just people having opinions on stuff.



Saiche said:
As long as the west doesn't get largely involved, you shouldn't have to worry about politics getting pushed in there. Japan is not largely involved in politics and constantly talking about them like we are, or at least that's what I've heard.
To say "Japan is not largely involved in politics" shows how little you know of Japanese politics.

They just aren't necessarily talking about the same issues, at the same time, in the same spaces, as we westerners are.

You want Japanese politics? Here, let me dig up one topic that's vaguely similar to the recent western spat over gender issues. A topic du jour happens to be high heels. This is a pretty big thing; here's the country's health minister, eight days ago, arguing against a petition by telling people that high heels can be "necessary and appropriate" for workplaces to mandate them. You wanna argue about high heels in the office? Enjoy.


From what I've heard the general population is not largely involved in politics. That's what I was saying. I was pointing out it's unlikely that Japan will put politics into anime because the targeted audience doesn't care about politics. I've watched decent amount of anime and not once can I recall political issues popping up (except declining birthrates ofc).
 
Jun 12, 11:13 PM

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@YossaRedMage

Lots of times you have a way of putting what I was thinking into words better than I did. I agree with everything you said. I don't want to see the middle class disappear from the anime medium or to see anime become a "global" product with Japanese influence rather than being a Japanese product with global influence.

SJWs will say that the moe characters and kawaii culture is demeaning to women and complain about the underage girls.
 
Jun 12, 11:23 PM

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If I only I could get a dollar for every time someone throwed around the word "SJWs" in their little tantrum post...phew! I would be making bank.
 
Jun 12, 11:24 PM
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Anime is already mainstream, there might be niche series but it already has many mainstream series. And Japan still won't give an f about Western taste,but there will be anime co-produced by Western companies or some targeted for Western fans but that's few.Japan will always produce anime for the Japanese since 80% of their income comes from Japanese fans.

It's also easier to sell very expensive bd's and merch to Japaneses fans than those outside Japan.
 
Jun 12, 11:42 PM

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Saiche said:
From what I've heard the general population is not largely involved in politics. That's what I was saying. I was pointing out it's unlikely that Japan will put politics into anime because the targeted audience doesn't care about politics. I've watched decent amount of anime and not once can I recall political issues popping up (except declining birthrates ofc).
Politics and politicians have sometimes gotten explicit mentions, from a passing mention in Azumanga Daioh to Mudazumo Naki Kaikaku's going full bore into things. They tend to be less well-known to international audiences, naturally, because non-Japanese people rarely get the references.

More general political topics also show up. Nationalism is present as a thematic element in such shows as Code Geass and Guilty Crown (which is literally about an urban terrorist group rebelling against an evil international regime with control over the country), and international relations are touched on in a variety of other shows too, from a kids show like Element Hunters to an otherwise apolitical action show like Symphogear. Disasters aren't uncommon thematic elements, from Grave of the Fireflies to Tokyo Magnitude 8 to Coppelion. And social issues are very frequently covered -- the role of otakus and NEETS in society, as well as anything from starring them as protagonists to making fun of them with stereotypes, is common. And here is a list of a few manga series dealing with a variety of social issues.

That said, it's not that politics doesn't exist in Japan, it's that -- as you said -- the targeted audience is (at least perceived to be) not very interested in direct discussion of politics (which isn't surprising given anime's status as an escapist medium).

Here's some commentary about it:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-11-28/.109257

https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/3a03bf/are_there_animemanga_about_japanese_politics/

Some interesting tidbits from skimming these pages:

* "mundane subject matter like that is simply not a good fit for anime. It's visually dull, the characters are ugly, and there's usually very little room for humor."
* "There are actually plenty of political manga. ... They tend to run in magazines aimed at salarymen, go on forever, and "look" like seinen manga -- awash in mundane realism." Ironically, as the anime-watching population grows up, this might mean that more anime fans are becoming salarymen...
* "Political manga, and indeed Japanese political media in general tends to be very nonspecific and inoffensive: Japanese media companies very intentionally steer clear of controversy." If anything this suggests that it's media companies in Japan that may be suppressing political ideas from being explored in anime, due to the need to keep the money flowing without ruffling too many feathers. By extrapolation, one might speculate that it's not that people don't talk politics, they just don't talk politics in anime because they can't get away with it easily.
* "There's not really much anime that directly involves Japanese politics; usually it's fairly allegorical."

Also they mention some shows I'm less familiar with, such as Psycho-Pass (which pretty clearly has a political theme to it now that it's been mentioned to me), a Patlabor movie, Hadashi no Gen, and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. Also more nationalist sentiment in Super Sonico apparently.

TL;DR politics, political (and politicized) issues, and political controversies exist in Japan just like everywhere else. In anime, it's just masked due to mundane shit being too boring or too openly controversial if they actually name specific names. But there are definitely political/ideological/philosophical undercurrents running in a lot of works, just that they're often presented as setting elements (sometimes with clear good/bad dichotomies) and/or in allegorical form.
Modified by GlennMagusHarvey, Jun 12, 11:50 PM
 
Jun 12, 11:51 PM
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You're jumping into conclusions in an olympic level. To think Japan gives a damn about Americanos and their social politics and actually saying its not an opinion pfft. Hilarious.
 
Jun 12, 11:54 PM
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Anime has been mainstream for better part of the decade now? We've seen popular people like Michael B Jordan and Elon Musk with anime merch and video games based on anime has been selling like hot cakes. Its as mainstream as it gets.
 
Jun 12, 11:55 PM
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GlennMagusHarvey said:
Saiche said:
From what I've heard the general population is not largely involved in politics. That's what I was saying. I was pointing out it's unlikely that Japan will put politics into anime because the targeted audience doesn't care about politics. I've watched decent amount of anime and not once can I recall political issues popping up (except declining birthrates ofc).
Politics and politicians have sometimes gotten explicit mentions, from a passing mention in Azumanga Daioh to Mudazumo Naki Kaikaku's going full bore into things. They tend to be less well-known to international audiences, naturally, because non-Japanese people rarely get the references.

More general political topics also show up. Nationalism is present as a thematic element in such shows as Code Geass and Guilty Crown (which is literally about an urban terrorist group rebelling against an evil international regime with control over the country), and international relations are touched on in a variety of other shows too, from a kids show like Element Hunters to an otherwise apolitical action show like Symphogear. Disasters aren't uncommon thematic elements, from Grave of the Fireflies to Tokyo Magnitude 8 to Coppelion. And social issues are very frequently covered -- the role of otakus and NEETS in society, as well as anything from starring them as protagonists to making fun of them with stereotypes, is common. And here is a list of a few manga series dealing with a variety of social issues.

That said, it's not that politics doesn't exist in Japan, it's that -- as you said -- the targeted audience is (at least perceived to be) not very interested in politics (which isn't surprising given anime's status as an escapist medium). Here's some commentary about it:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-11-28/.109257

https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/3a03bf/are_there_animemanga_about_japanese_politics/

Common themes one gathers from skimming these pages:
* "mundane subject matter like that is simply not a good fit for anime. It's visually dull, the characters are ugly, and there's usually very little room for humor."
* "There are actually plenty of political manga. ... They tend to run in magazines aimed at salarymen, go on forever, and "look" like seinen manga -- awash in mundane realism." Ironically, as the anime-watching population grows up, this might mean that more anime fans are becoming salarymen...
* "Political manga, and indeed Japanese political media in general tends to be very nonspecific and inoffensive: Japanese media companies very intentionally steer clear of controversy." If anything this suggests that it's media companies in Japan that may be suppressing political ideas from being explored in anime, due to the need to keep the money flowing without ruffling too many feathers. By extrapolation, one might speculate that it's not that people don't talk politics, they just don't talk politics in anime because they can't get away with it easily.
* "There's not really much anime that directly involves Japanese politics; usually it's fairly allegorical."

Also they mention some shows I'm less familiar with, such as Psycho-Pass (which pretty clearly has a political theme to it now that it's been mentioned to me), a Patlabor movie, Hadashi no Gen, and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. Also more nationalist sentiment in Super Sonico apparently.

TL;DR politics and political controversies exist in Japan just like everywhere else. In anime, it's just masked due to mundane shit being too boring or too openly controversial if they actually name specific names. But there are definitely political/ideological/philosophical undercurrents running in a lot of works.


with all due respect, you seem to confuse geopolitics and social politics, the latter is the center of this whole debate, while gepolitics deals with foreign affairs and international relations, i think you focused on the wrong aspect of the the conversation but i do realize its a well constructed argument against the user you quoted, yes its true that japan has politics its a country after all, and yes i know that anime has political idea's and messages but they mostly arent opinionated, sometimes they are anti war or a look into a political idea, again i understand your argument in the context of the user that was quoted, but its far off from the general deabte here.
 
Jun 13, 12:02 AM
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haldattey said:
You're jumping into conclusions in an olympic level. To think Japan gives a damn about Americanos and their social politics and actually saying its not an opinion pfft. Hilarious.


its only what i observed based on the past years its safe to say the western ideology has slowly stretched into other countries and affected their society and social standing, to assume japan is ammune from the whole world is an absured idea, its implausible yes but not impossible, many people outside the western culture know of the so called "woke movement" and its effects, so what makes you think japan wont someday get effected either directly or indirectly
 
Jun 13, 12:06 AM
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haldattey said:
Anime has been mainstream for better part of the decade now? We've seen popular people like Michael B Jordan and Elon Musk with anime merch and video games based on anime has been selling like hot cakes. Its as mainstream as it gets.


again it depends on what you view as "mainstream anime", yes i can go to someone and say "hey you know DBZ and AOT" and its highly likely they would say yes but would it be the same if i asked "hey do you know black bullet" i dont think they'll answer me, what we view as mainstream anime is a fraction of anime the big massive ones that get attention because of being plastered everywhere, as i said they are cultural icons at this point.
 
Jun 13, 12:07 AM

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Romboi said:
GlennMagusHarvey said:
Politics and politicians have sometimes gotten explicit mentions, from a passing mention in Azumanga Daioh to Mudazumo Naki Kaikaku's going full bore into things. They tend to be less well-known to international audiences, naturally, because non-Japanese people rarely get the references.

More general political topics also show up. Nationalism is present as a thematic element in such shows as Code Geass and Guilty Crown (which is literally about an urban terrorist group rebelling against an evil international regime with control over the country), and international relations are touched on in a variety of other shows too, from a kids show like Element Hunters to an otherwise apolitical action show like Symphogear. Disasters aren't uncommon thematic elements, from Grave of the Fireflies to Tokyo Magnitude 8 to Coppelion. And social issues are very frequently covered -- the role of otakus and NEETS in society, as well as anything from starring them as protagonists to making fun of them with stereotypes, is common. And here is a list of a few manga series dealing with a variety of social issues.

That said, it's not that politics doesn't exist in Japan, it's that -- as you said -- the targeted audience is (at least perceived to be) not very interested in politics (which isn't surprising given anime's status as an escapist medium). Here's some commentary about it:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-11-28/.109257

https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/3a03bf/are_there_animemanga_about_japanese_politics/

Common themes one gathers from skimming these pages:
* "mundane subject matter like that is simply not a good fit for anime. It's visually dull, the characters are ugly, and there's usually very little room for humor."
* "There are actually plenty of political manga. ... They tend to run in magazines aimed at salarymen, go on forever, and "look" like seinen manga -- awash in mundane realism." Ironically, as the anime-watching population grows up, this might mean that more anime fans are becoming salarymen...
* "Political manga, and indeed Japanese political media in general tends to be very nonspecific and inoffensive: Japanese media companies very intentionally steer clear of controversy." If anything this suggests that it's media companies in Japan that may be suppressing political ideas from being explored in anime, due to the need to keep the money flowing without ruffling too many feathers. By extrapolation, one might speculate that it's not that people don't talk politics, they just don't talk politics in anime because they can't get away with it easily.
* "There's not really much anime that directly involves Japanese politics; usually it's fairly allegorical."

Also they mention some shows I'm less familiar with, such as Psycho-Pass (which pretty clearly has a political theme to it now that it's been mentioned to me), a Patlabor movie, Hadashi no Gen, and Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. Also more nationalist sentiment in Super Sonico apparently.

TL;DR politics and political controversies exist in Japan just like everywhere else. In anime, it's just masked due to mundane shit being too boring or too openly controversial if they actually name specific names. But there are definitely political/ideological/philosophical undercurrents running in a lot of works.


with all due respect, you seem to confuse geopolitics and social politics, the latter is the center of this whole debate, while gepolitics deals with foreign affairs and international relations, i think you focused on the wrong aspect of the the conversation but i do realize its a well constructed argument against the user you quoted, yes its true that japan has politics its a country after all, and yes i know that anime has political idea's and messages but they mostly arent opinionated, sometimes they are anti war or a look into a political idea, again i understand your argument in the context of the user that was quoted, but its far off from the general deabte here.
Mocking a domestic politician for not visiting a shrine honoring what other countries consider to be war criminals is both geopolitical and social-political. Nationalist sentiment in general has to do with both.

And I mentioned coverage of social issues as well.
 
Jun 13, 12:10 AM

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@GlennMagnusHarvey

I don't care if its there or not. I'm not trying to escape from Japanese politics I'm just specifically trying to escape from the "fuck the white man" propaganda that is in literally every fucking movie now. Gavin McInnes made a great episode on this.

https://youtu.be/ca4lnPwnX3E?t=148
 
Jun 13, 12:13 AM
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Romboi said:
haldattey said:
You're jumping into conclusions in an olympic level. To think Japan gives a damn about Americanos and their social politics and actually saying its not an opinion pfft. Hilarious.


its only what i observed based on the past years its safe to say the western ideology has slowly stretched into other countries and affected their society and social standing, to assume japan is ammune from the whole world is an absured idea, its implausible yes but not impossible, many people outside the western culture know of the so called "woke movement" and its effects, so what makes you think japan wont someday get effected either directly or indirectly


So its only just your opinion, gotcha.

Your argument reeks of "Damn SJWs are ruining everything", somebody please collect your grandpa.
 
Jun 13, 12:32 AM

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Oh I forgot about this! Taishou Baseball Girls. Real-world gender issues as a theme, obviously. It just "gets away with it" by being historical.
 
Jun 13, 12:33 AM

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Ryuk9428 said:
I'm not trying to escape from Japanese politics I'm just specifically trying to escape from the "fuck the white man" propaganda that is in literally every fucking movie now.

- Japanses are kind of prejudice against gaikokujins, so too late to worry about that.
- If you are not guilty of anything those movies condemn, why do you even care?
Are you from some privileged milieu? (If you post here it's not very likely.) Are you abusing women and/or minorities? Do you think they are somehow sub human? Are you against freedom of speech and religion?
I guess not.
 
Jun 13, 12:39 AM

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alshu said:
Ryuk9428 said:
I'm not trying to escape from Japanese politics I'm just specifically trying to escape from the "fuck the white man" propaganda that is in literally every fucking movie now.

- Japanses are kind of prejudice against gaikokujins, so too late to worry about that.
- If you are not guilty of anything those movies condemn, why do you even care?
Are you from some privileged milieu? (If you post here it's not very likely.) Are you abusing women and/or minorities? Do you think they are somehow sub human? Are you against freedom of speech and religion?
I guess not.


At least the ones who do have a rational reason for it. They worry about Westerners trying to change their culture because we have a reputation for doing that to countries, that's a completely valid reason to worry about us. SJWs think white men are inherently evil for being white men. Besides, the whole reason they started saying gaikokujin is because they thought gaijin was offensive.

You've clearly bought into SJW propaganda of thinking any conservative idea is "abusing women and minorities." And its the SJWs who are against freedom of speech. They're doing their damndest to destroy it.
 
Jun 13, 12:50 AM
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haldattey said:
Romboi said:


its only what i observed based on the past years its safe to say the western ideology has slowly stretched into other countries and affected their society and social standing, to assume japan is ammune from the whole world is an absured idea, its implausible yes but not impossible, many people outside the western culture know of the so called "woke movement" and its effects, so what makes you think japan wont someday get effected either directly or indirectly


So its only just your opinion, gotcha.

Your argument reeks of "Damn SJWs are ruining everything", somebody please collect your grandpa.


its an objective obseravtion of past actions in different media, trying to side line the argument by saying i just hate so called "SJW" is moronic in its own right, the western media has a reach far beyond what you think and as japan society becomes more open it will influence it slowly, again this isnt a prediction and i'm not saying this for a fact but its highly likely it will happen based on what happened to other countries and their entertainment aka america and the EU. this isnt my opinion on a group its what i observed over the past years
 
Jun 13, 12:51 AM

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Ryuk9428 said:
alshu said:

- Japanses are kind of prejudice against gaikokujins, so too late to worry about that.
- If you are not guilty of anything those movies condemn, why do you even care?
Are you from some privileged milieu? (If you post here it's not very likely.) Are you abusing women and/or minorities? Do you think they are somehow sub human? Are you against freedom of speech and religion?
I guess not.


At least the ones who do have a rational reason for it. They worry about Westerners trying to change their culture because we have a reputation for doing that to countries, that's a completely valid reason to worry about us. SJWs think white men are inherently evil for being white men. Besides, the whole reason they started saying gaikokujin is because they thought gaijin was offensive.

You've clearly bought into SJW propaganda of thinking any conservative idea is "abusing women and minorities." And its the SJWs who are against freedom of speech. They're doing their damndest to destroy it.
Why the sudden shift to white-knighting the label of "conservative ideas"? What conservatives ideas are we talking about, and what do they have to do with this?
 
Jun 13, 12:52 AM
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Romboi said:
haldattey said:


So its only just your opinion, gotcha.

Your argument reeks of "Damn SJWs are ruining everything", somebody please collect your grandpa.


its an objective obseravtion of past actions in different media, trying to side line the argument by saying i just hate so called "SJW" is moronic in its own right, the western media has a reach far beyond what you think and as japan society becomes more open it will influence it slowly, again this isnt a prediction and i'm not saying this for a fact but its highly likely it will happen based on what happened to other countries and their entertainment aka america and the EU. this isnt my opinion on a group its what i observed over the past years


r/copypasta, Thanks for the karma.
 
Jun 13, 12:56 AM
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haldattey said:
Romboi said:


its an objective obseravtion of past actions in different media, trying to side line the argument by saying i just hate so called "SJW" is moronic in its own right, the western media has a reach far beyond what you think and as japan society becomes more open it will influence it slowly, again this isnt a prediction and i'm not saying this for a fact but its highly likely it will happen based on what happened to other countries and their entertainment aka america and the EU. this isnt my opinion on a group its what i observed over the past years


r/copypasta, Thanks for the karma.


how childish of you, insted of debating like the rest of the users here you type a subreddit and think you got the upper hand, feel free to post it out of context im sure you'll be cackling.
 
Jun 13, 1:03 AM
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Romboi said:
haldattey said:


r/copypasta, Thanks for the karma.


how childish of you, insted of debating like the rest of the users here you type a subreddit and think you got the upper hand, feel free to post it out of context im sure you'll be cackling.


I was done with the "debate" after my first reply. You're entitled to your opinion and what you're saying is your own opinion, you really didn't present anything convincing to support your argument other than "what ifs" or "how can you be sure", there's nothing of value here to "debate", at least for me and I'm not at interested in going down on a shit flinging contest with you over some alarmist bullshit.
 
Jun 13, 1:09 AM
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You're overreacting and making thinks up just like left-wingers do (you decided to bring up politics for some reason, so I will too). I'm a 100% libertarian and I hate SJWs as much as you do. However, I don't see any politics in anime. Yes, there's some stuff in anime itself, but that's always been there. Anime studios changing things for non-Japanese audiences? Oh please, all of that is minor and I haven't noticed anything. Sure, maybe they'll avoid lewding a loli, but what's wrong with that? They have just as much of a right to dislike it as anyone else has to like it or dislike things such as homosexuality. You people are the ones bringing politics into anime by going on ridiculous, unnecessary right-wing rants about "EVIL SJWS BANNING ANIME OMG!!!!" You're doing the EXACT SAME THING SJWs and modern liberals do: making things up to fit your agenda and somehow give you an "excuse" to spread your political views.

I'm not just saying this to you as an individual, I'm saying this to all of you. SJWs a a small minority who only look big because you lot keep talking about them. They don't have any power just as there's no chance of a Christian theocracy suddenly rising in Saudi Arabia, although I could easily pretend there is like you lot pretend SJWs are somehow the new leaders of America (by that logic, Trump is one too because he supports civil rights and LGBT). They don't have any affect on America. Yeah, okay, there was that ONE incident with the Funimation English dub, but that was done by AMERICANS, not Japanese people. Funimation is an American company that dub anime into English. I don't understand how this really affects JAPANESE anime. I could do a voice over of Code Lyoko and go on about communism. Does that suddenly make France and the show itself communist? No, it'd just be me being an idiot but not affecting anyone. I've seen no change in anime.

HOWEVER, I have seen A LOT of right-wingers bringing politics into anime groups on Facebook, Reddit, Discord and other palaces like that as well as THIS WEBSITE, YouTube (both videos and comments) and any other place you can think of. Now, like I said before, I'm a libertarian. I dislike fascism, but I also dislike modern left-wing politics just as much as you do. However, I don't go around trying to spread my politics views everywhere. You're doing the EXACT same thing SJWs are supposedly doing. This "anime gate" bullshit or whatever you want to call it is just a myth like the 6,785,456,4322,666,697 genders or any other modern liberal or SJW myth. It's a myth created by right-wingers just so they have an excuse to bring politics into anime. You're just their puppet right now.

So no, anime becoming mainstream won't change anything. There won't be any politics unless right-wingers keep doing this shit and bringing up politics every second. I don't wanna see rants about SJWs, Trump, Hillary, cultural Marxism (whether or not that's a myth, it's irrelevant to anime), communism or ANYTHING ELSE politics. No left-wing, right-wing, libertarian, centrist or religious stuff. I'm a libertarian and a Buddhist, but you know what I'd say to anyone trying to bring up libertarianism or Buddhism? I'd tell them to shut up and go away or just talk about anime. If I want to see politics, I'll check the news or go on some political page, subreddit or whatever else I can get my hands on. I don't watch anime for stupid right-wing rants and myths about SJWs supposedly taking over. SJWs only seem big because YOU LOT keep ranting about them and making it seem that way. Even recently there's been Jewish people getting triggered over Attack on Titan (it's not just Muslims).

Grow the hell up, all of you. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, left-wingers, right-wingers, libertarians, centrists or whatever you are. I don't watch anime for this and you're doing what SJWs, modern liberals and Muslims do. STOP IT! Is it that hard?

Again, anime becoming mainstream won't have any negative effect UNLESS people like you keep bringing your politics intro every god damn thing to do with anime. Anime will still be around, it'll still be the same, there won't be any left-wing propaganda (UNLESS Japan becomes communist for some reason, possibly if invaded by China, which is very unlikely) and you'll still be able to watch it regardless of your political alignment or religion. Yes, even if you're right-wing and Jewish. This is just fear mongering and it's exactly why I hate America because all you Americans do is bring up your politics everywhere, say incredibly stupid things and ruin everything. If it wasn't for you lot, we could have a nice time in this community or anything else. BUT NO, IT HAS TO BE POLITICAL OR RELIGIOUS!

Honestly, just go away if you have nothing to say or contribute to this community or anything else.
 
Jun 13, 1:12 AM
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haldattey said:
Romboi said:


how childish of you, insted of debating like the rest of the users here you type a subreddit and think you got the upper hand, feel free to post it out of context im sure you'll be cackling.


I was done with the "debate" after my first reply. You're entitled to your opinion and what you're saying is your own opinion, you really didn't present anything convincing to support your argument other than "what ifs" or "how can you be sure", there's nothing of value here to "debate", at least for me and I'm not at interested in going down on a shit flinging contest with you over some alarmist bullshit.


you act like you posted the best argument when you merely acted like a smug know it all, saying i hate sjw's , you your self didnt present an argument thus you werent in it in the first place, aside from that you proceeded to post a reddit like you had an uper hand or something,also you show that you only posted that reply without really reading into the whole conversation people had here.
so if you didnt want to debate why are you here, is it just to sling you're attitude at others or was it just a shock reply, either way the reddit like reply was childsh at least and rude at most.
 
Jun 13, 1:14 AM
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thevagus said:
ThreadFazer said:
Anime should just be a lowkey thing.

I dont want it to be mainstream.
Trust me its a lot better if its just a lowky media.
The main world would not treat anime like japan treats it.


Yeah right or we will see some SJWs and activists shitting over lolis and moe all over the world. There are already a lot of them on MAL.


Please tell me where you saw them, because all I see is people complaining about them. I've seen absolutely no SJWs. Not trying to be rude, but I think you might be imagining strange things. It's fine, I've done it before.
 
Jun 13, 1:21 AM

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BlueOtaku2001 said:
thevagus said:


Yeah right or we will see some SJWs and activists shitting over lolis and moe all over the world. There are already a lot of them on MAL.


Please tell me where you saw them, because all I see is people complaining about them. I've seen absolutely no SJWs. Not trying to be rude, but I think you might be imagining strange things. It's fine, I've done it before.

I think I've seen, like, one? But I haven't seen CherryLover post here for a while now.
 
Jun 13, 1:25 AM

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I'm pretty sure western politics aren't going to have any real impact on anime outside the english dub versions any time soon. Japan has it's own problems to deal with. There are plenty of other things to worry about when it comes to anime that may actually happen,like whether or not they go full CG at some point.
 
Jun 13, 1:26 AM

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bunni_x said:
If I only I could get a dollar for every time someone throwed around the word "SJWs" in their little tantrum post...phew! I would be making bank.


We can make a SJW jar. Everytime someone said SJW, 1 buck.

Saiche said:


From what I've heard the general population is not largely involved in politics. That's what I was saying. I was pointing out it's unlikely that Japan will put politics into anime because the targeted audience doesn't care about politics. I've watched decent amount of anime and not once can I recall political issues popping up (except declining birthrates ofc).


You haven't watched Shoujo Kakumei Utena. Or anything directed by Kunihiko Ikuhara, didn't you?

Also:

- Mobile Suit Gundam has anti-war messages
- Miyazaki's movies tend to have anti-war and ecologist messages
- Kanashimi no Belladonna is a feminist movie. Made in the 70s.

And i'm mentioning the most blatant examples.

@Gen_Lightsbane the UN wants to ban lolis? Please tell me where i need to sign.
 
Jun 13, 1:30 AM
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@Ryuk9428

Of course, EVERYONE who disagrees with you is an SJW. Dude, grow up., You're doing the exact same stuff they do. Also I don't see ANY anti-white stuff. You're just making things up to fit YOUR agenda, just like SJWs and modern liberals do. I see literally no SJWs stuff except for that ONE funimation dubbed episode of Miss Kobayashi's dragon Maid. Also, Japanese anime has always had foreign characters and lesbian and gay characters. By your logic, I guess the USSR must've won the cold war, invaded Japan, forced them to create that and history has lied to us this who time. You never know, maybe you're right, so I'll jsut pop to Moscow and try to find a Soviet Uni- oh wait... communism died over 27 years ago. Again, grow up. You're doing the exact same things SJWs are supposedly doing (they're such a small minority as well). There's no white genocide either, stop acting like black supremacists do.

Also, before you call me the overused word SJW, I'm a libertarian.

Modified by BlueOtaku2001, Jun 13, 1:34 AM
 
Jun 13, 1:32 AM
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@BlancaXLobo
I could buy the entire anime industry if I had a dollar for every time someone started a rant about SJWs in the anime community.
 
Jun 13, 1:34 AM

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Ryuk9428 said:

At least the ones who do have a rational reason for it.

So women, trans and foreigners have nothing rational to fear? Everything is peachy?


Ryuk9428 said:
SJWs think white men are inherently evil for being white men.

Huge amount of those are exactly white men.
SJW has negative connotation nowadays not because such people are behind the wrong cause but because they have no idea how to fight for social justice. Actually they make more damage and tend to abuse their's moral position and go after random dudes for petty reasons.


Ryuk9428 said:
Besides, the whole reason they started saying gaikokujin is because they thought gaijin was offensive.

Not sure what you are trying to say. Gaijin means foreigner. Kokujin means from caucasian race. As you said the japanese have some real reasons to not like us but on the other hand their xenophobia sometimes gets out of control.


Ryuk9428 said:
of thinking any conservative idea is "abusing women and minorities."

I don't care about your american political debates. From my point of view people from all political spectrum, race or gender in USA are being jerks to other people for no other apparent reason that prejudice.
Yes, this goes for other countries and even continents, it's not specifically a political thing. People are just mean by nature.


Ryuk9428 said:
And its the SJWs who are against freedom of speech. They're doing their damndest to destroy it.

It's kind the american/western way isn't it?

- Huawei is spying for the Chinese government...you don't have evidences but you are ruining company's businesses anyway.
- Russian hackers/spys are blamed for anything that's wrong in the US and European political process...still no evidence but the services are "convinced".
- Whistle blowers are discovering horrible practices...government goes against them and changes nothing.
Actually it's a long list it's pointless to put all here...

Are you even surprised that in such toxic and hate mongering atmosphere some guys gang on innocent or even random people to vent their frustration just out of spite?
Modified by alshu, Jun 13, 2:07 AM
 
Jun 13, 1:37 AM
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BlueOtaku2001 said:
@Ryuk9428

Of course, EVERYONE who disagrees with you is an SJW. Dude, grow up., You're doing the exact same stuff they do. Also I don't see ANY anti-white stuff. You're just making things up to fit YOUR agenda, just like SJWs and modern liberals do. I see literally no SJWs stuff except for that ONE funimation dubbed episode of Miss Kobayashi's dragon Maid. Also, Japanese anime has always had foreign characters and lesbian and gay characters. By your logic, I guess the USSR must've won the cold war, invaded Japan, forced them to create that and history has lied to us this who time. You never know, maybe you're right, so I'll jsut pop to Moscow and try to find a Soviet Uni- oh wait... communism died over 27 years ago. Again, grow up. You're doing the exact same things SJWs are supposedly doing (they're such a small minority as well). There's no white genocide either, stop acting like black supremacists do.

Also, before you call me the overused word SJW, I'm a libertarian.



please relax, this isnt about sjw's okay, and it isnt about if left wing politics are in anime, its a debate of the effect of western culture on anime if it were to go mainstream like gaming, please dont start posting shock replies, your first post here was great and had certain good points that i agree with and i belive many do as well
 
Jun 13, 1:38 AM
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@GlennMagusHarvey
Exactly, only one. People will look at one and immediately interpret it as 1 million for some reason. I knew what a small number was even in nursery. THIS IS NURSERY LEVEL MATHS GUYS, COME ON! I haven't seen them anywhere else either except maybe a couple on Twitter.
 
Jun 13, 1:40 AM
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alshu said:
Ryuk9428 said:

At least the ones who do have a rational reason for it.

So women, trans and foreigners have nothing rational to fear? Everything is peachy?


Ryuk9428 said:
SJWs think white men are inherently evil for being white men.

Huge amount of those are exactly white men.
SJW has negative connotation nowadays not because such people are behind the wrong cause but because they have no idea how to fight for social justice. Actually they make more damage and tend to abuse their's moral position and go after random dudes for petty reasons.


Ryuk9428 said:
Besides, the whole reason they started saying gaikokujin is because they thought gaijin was offensive.

Not sure what you are trying to say. Gaijin means foreigner. Kokujin means from caucasian race. As you said the japanese have some real reasons to not like us but on the other hand their xenophobia sometimes gets out of control.


Ryuk9428 said:
of thinking any conservative idea is "abusing women and minorities."

I don't care about your american political debates. From my point of view people from all political spectrum, race or gender in USA are being jerks to other people for not apparent reason except prejudice.
Yes, this goes for other continents too and it's not specifically a political thing. People are just mean by nature.


Ryuk9428 said:
And its the SJWs who are against freedom of speech. They're doing their damndest to destroy it.

It's kind the american/western way isn't it?

- Huawei is spying for the Chinese government...you don't have evidences but you are ruining company's businesses anyway.
- Russian hackers/spys are blamed for anything that's wrong in the US and European political process...still no evidence but the services are "convinced".
- Whistle blowers are discovering horrible practices...government goes against them and changes nothing.
Actually it's a long list it's pointless to put all here...

Are you even surprised that in such toxic and hate mongering atmosphere some guys gang on innocent or even random people to vent their frustration just out of spite?

stop, this isnt a politics fourm and your post has nothing to do with anime, i will not debate it neither should anyone else because it will further side line the actual argument, so please post a reply with respect to the current conversation, i dont want this to turn into twitter
 
Jun 13, 1:42 AM
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@Romboi
Yeah I apologise for that, but I get mad when anyone tries to destroy what I love (not talking about you). Other people here have started rants about conservatism or whatever so I couldn't really help myself. I just wish everyone would stop mentioning politics.
 
Jun 13, 1:46 AM
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Romboi said:
haldattey said:


I was done with the "debate" after my first reply. You're entitled to your opinion and what you're saying is your own opinion, you really didn't present anything convincing to support your argument other than "what ifs" or "how can you be sure", there's nothing of value here to "debate", at least for me and I'm not at interested in going down on a shit flinging contest with you over some alarmist bullshit.


you act like you posted the best argument when you merely acted like a smug know it all, saying i hate sjw's , you your self didnt present an argument thus you werent in it in the first place, aside from that you proceeded to post a reddit like you had an uper hand or something,also you show that you only posted that reply without really reading into the whole conversation people had here.
so if you didnt want to debate why are you here, is it just to sling you're attitude at others or was it just a shock reply, either way the reddit like reply was childsh at least and rude at most.


Lmao, sounds like you're not paying enough attention to your own replies. Let's recap, I did presented my arguments in my first two replies to your post, you said Anime would be affected by social politics of USA, I counted "Japan doesn't give a damn", then you explained how your conclusions are not your own opinions but "objective observation", but your observations are not facts that support your claim, your observations are just validation for your own opinions. In my later replies, I denied your "objective observation" as just your opinion, because it is. The "debate" ended right then and there. I didn't link the subreddit to have an upper hand, its not like you had so much as a slight edge, I linked it to demonstrate how ridiculous your post is. It certainly was a low-hanging fruit, I admit that, but its not like I had anything to better here anyway because the debate ended with my earlier replies.
 
Jun 13, 1:47 AM
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unfortunately it seems like this conversation has gotten too politisized, so please refrain from any political idea's and if needed make a clean cut argument and leave it at that not need for this to become the presidentail debate ya know
 
Jun 13, 1:48 AM

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Yeah, OP, because only Westerners have politics, Japan doesn't have politics. I have a solution for you: move to Africa. Because then you would be so out of the loop of Western politics that you wouldn't recognize it anymore. Anime must be this perfectly isolated ecosystem that exists in a metaphysical artistic vacuum, not subjected to anything in real life. The manga authors don't have biases at all.
My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com
THE CHAT CLUB.
 
Jun 13, 1:48 AM

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Man, this is like the 100th time I've seen a thread like this and 100th time several people responded with "Japan don't care about filthy gaikokujin man daijobu!!" I'm burning out from the forums it seems.

Also, interesting to note that whenever someone says they don't want politics in anime, what they mean is not politics but political correctness. Shows like Death Note, Psycho Pass, Patlabor, ACCA: 13, Princess Principal, Code Geass, LotGH who directly delves in political elements are all A-ok it seems.
 
Jun 13, 1:51 AM

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BlueOtaku2001 said:
@GlennMagusHarvey
Exactly, only one. People will look at one and immediately interpret it as 1 million for some reason. I knew what a small number was even in nursery. THIS IS NURSERY LEVEL MATHS GUYS, COME ON! I haven't seen them anywhere else either except maybe a couple on Twitter.
I think what basically happened was that you had people writing incendiary shitposts and then other people took them seriously.

For example:

"all men should die!"
"OMG WTF DID YOU SEE THAT POST??? CRAZY MURDEROUS FEMINAZIS!!!"

This phenomenon exists elsewhere too, of course. For example:

"i want to have sex with lolis"
"OMG DID YOU SEE THAT POST??? CRAZY PEDOPHILE WEEBS!!!"
 
Jun 13, 1:58 AM
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@Orhunaa
You're correct. I don't want it in anime either and yes, that Funimation dub was annoying, but I never see that stuff in anime. It's funny how people complain about it because Japanese anime in fact DOES have LGBT, foreign and heroine characters. They don't make a massive fuss like SJWs would, but it's clear the majority of Japan don't really care about sexuality or that stuff. Japan is more accepting and less xenophobic than people would have you think. If anything I guess they still have problems with sexism in the workplace, but that's not anime related and is a topic for another day.
 
Jun 13, 2:00 AM
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@GlennMagusHarvey
Just wondering, have you heard of Poe's Law? That's pretty much what it is, and i admit to doing it myself. People need to realise the difference between and obvious troll and actual idiots. For example, some in this thread are idiots, while the example you have would be an obvious troll doing Poe's Law by pretending to be a certain political or religion alignment to get people to hate that particular ideology or religion even more and rant about it. I've done it before myself and I've been successful. It can be funny, but it just gets old after a while.
 
Jun 13, 2:07 AM
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haldattey said:
Romboi said:


you act like you posted the best argument when you merely acted like a smug know it all, saying i hate sjw's , you your self didnt present an argument thus you werent in it in the first place, aside from that you proceeded to post a reddit like you had an uper hand or something,also you show that you only posted that reply without really reading into the whole conversation people had here.
so if you didnt want to debate why are you here, is it just to sling you're attitude at others or was it just a shock reply, either way the reddit like reply was childsh at least and rude at most.


Lmao, sounds like you're not paying enough attention to your own replies. Let's recap, I did presented my arguments in my first two replies to your post, you said Anime would be affected by social politics of USA, I counted "Japan doesn't give a damn", then you explained how your conclusions are not your own opinions but "objective observation", but your observations are not facts that support your claim, your observations are just validation for your own opinions. In my later replies, I denied your "objective observation" as just your opinion, because it is. The "debate" ended right then and there. I didn't link the subreddit to have an upper hand, its not like you had so much as a slight edge, I linked it to demonstrate how ridiculous your post is. It certainly was a low-hanging fruit, I admit that, but its not like I had anything to better here anyway because the debate ended with my earlier replies.


when you said "You're jumping into conclusions in an olympic level. To think Japan gives a damn about Americanos and their social politics and actually saying its not an opinion pfft. Hilarious."

i belive this is where your argument starts, or have you left out the one where i replied to you about what mainstream anime is, none the less

now i admit my observations may be baised but not by any direct means, if i should explain it more i merely saw patterns and thats what i argued with, again you could say its my opinion but you could go and look at past events from three years ago and see for you self how the gaming and generally the media has changed, based on the information i drew a conclusion that it is possible anime may face the same fate.

as for your arguments, here they are
"So its only just your opinion, gotcha.

Your argument reeks of "Damn SJWs are ruining everything", somebody please collect your grandpa."

this one is isnt an argument its only mockery, in my argument i never once stated that it was my opinion so you concluded that my "observations" are my opinion which is hypocritical coming from you as you said " "You're jumping into conclusions in an olympic level" as for if japan cares about
USA politics, one that isnt the subject of the debate, and even if they dont as i stated earlier the USA has such a massive reach around the world that its not impossible that, again if anime becomes mainstream in the west it my get effected, how and when i dont know.

and the reddit link was just as you said low blow and only devalued your argument further, now the only real argument you made was this "Anime has been mainstream for better part of the decade now? We've seen popular people like Michael B Jordan and Elon Musk with anime merch and video games based on anime has been selling like hot cakes. Its as mainstream as it gets."
and i believe i replied to it rather appropriately but anyhow you did not further that argument and choose to make your own conclusion of my argument and mock it.



 
Jun 13, 2:11 AM
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Orhunaa said:
Man, this is like the 100th time I've seen a thread like this and 100th time several people responded with "Japan don't care about filthy gaikokujin man daijobu!!" I'm burning out from the forums it seems.

Also, interesting to note that whenever someone says they don't want politics in anime, what they mean is not politics but political correctness. Shows like Death Note, Psycho Pass, Patlabor, ACCA: 13, Princess Principal, Code Geass, LotGH who directly delves in political elements are all A-ok it seems.


yes exactly, thank you thats what we need to hear
 
Jun 13, 2:11 AM

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Romboi said:
stop, this isnt a politics fourm and your post has nothing to do with anime, i will not debate it neither should anyone else because it will further side line the actual argument, so please post a reply with respect to the current conversation, i dont want this to turn into twitter

- It's @Ryuk9428 how started it.
- My point was to comment why people react so weirdly and with such hate to irrelevant stuff.
 
Jun 13, 2:12 AM
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katsucats said:
Yeah, OP, because only Westerners have politics, Japan doesn't have politics. I have a solution for you: move to Africa. Because then you would be so out of the loop of Western politics that you wouldn't recognize it anymore. Anime must be this perfectly isolated ecosystem that exists in a metaphysical artistic vacuum, not subjected to anything in real life. The manga authors don't have biases at all.


sorry i didnt mean geopolitics what i meant was political correctness
 
Jun 13, 2:14 AM
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alshu said:
Romboi said:
stop, this isnt a politics fourm and your post has nothing to do with anime, i will not debate it neither should anyone else because it will further side line the actual argument, so please post a reply with respect to the current conversation, i dont want this to turn into twitter

- It's @Ryuk9428 how started it.
- My point was to comment why people react so weirdly and with such hate to irrelevant stuff.

i see, my apologies, i didnt quite understand your reply to him and thought it was just political bable
 
Jun 13, 2:15 AM

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Romboi said:
please relax, this isnt about sjw's okay, and it isnt about if left wing politics are in anime, its a debate of the effect of western culture on anime if it were to go mainstream like gaming, please dont start posting shock replies, your first post here was great and had certain good points that i agree with and i belive many do as well
Okay, let's try this again. What is "going mainstream like gaming"?

In gaming, we have these franchises with huge budgets and huge customer bases, and so you're saying they can't sustain themselves because they are trying to appeal to too many people by being "mainstream"? Perhaps, but...then what explains Nintendo's success? Their products certainly aren't niche.

Rather, it's various big publishers squandering their budgets on crazy amounts of graphical quality and such while not focusing sufficiently on the gameplay experience. And then they further make it worse by trying to make back some of the money using gacha mechanisms.
 
Jun 13, 2:21 AM

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Orhunaa said:
Man, this is like the 100th time I've seen a thread like this and 100th time several people responded with "Japan don't care about filthy gaikokujin man daijobu!!" I'm burning out from the forums it seems.

Also, interesting to note that whenever someone says they don't want politics in anime, what they mean is not politics but political correctness. Shows like Death Note, Psycho Pass, Patlabor, ACCA: 13, Princess Principal, Code Geass, LotGH who directly delves in political elements are all A-ok it seems.
Going by the commentary I found when I looked for people discussing why anime isn't political, it seems that "political correctness" in the sense of avoiding political issues happens in the Japanese anime industry too, because they don't want to offend (or bore) their audience.

It's just that socially-accepted stuff is different between Japan and "the west" (which is actually a whole crapton of different countries each with different political and cultural settings anyway so it's really silly to lump every one together like that), so westerners bat eyes at stuff that the Japanese wouldn't bat their eyes over.
 
Jun 13, 2:23 AM
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GlennMagusHarvey said:
Romboi said:
please relax, this isnt about sjw's okay, and it isnt about if left wing politics are in anime, its a debate of the effect of western culture on anime if it were to go mainstream like gaming, please dont start posting shock replies, your first post here was great and had certain good points that i agree with and i belive many do as well
Okay, let's try this again. What is "going mainstream like gaming"?

In gaming, we have these franchises with huge budgets and huge customer bases, and so you're saying they can't sustain themselves because they are trying to appeal to too many people by being "mainstream"? Perhaps, but...then what explains Nintendo's success? Their products certainly aren't niche.

Rather, it's various big publishers squandering their budgets on crazy amounts of graphical quality and such while not focusing sufficiently on the gameplay experience. And then they further make it worse by trying to make back some of the money using gacha mechanisms.


on a base level you are very much correct, but since the time games went a for a broader audience like they tend to lean to some side like "hey guys look at us we are inclusive" , in the case of nintendo they havent tried to push anything that was outragoues ( except that time when they copystirked everything under the sun) so they have been on the safe side of gaming, unlike EA and other companies with the same practices, my fear is that this notion somehow translates to anime if it were to go mainstream and work outside japan as i said like a studio and publisher in gaming
 
Jun 13, 2:26 AM
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@Romboi

you are confuse it seems, its not western cultures that is doing the censoring its their laws like age rating laws and laws are made through politics and political correctness is part of politics
 
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