Forum Settings
Forums

kiss anime goodbye if it goes mainstream [ENDED]

Pages (6) [1] 2 3 » ... Last »
Post New Reply
#1
Jun 11, 12:07 AM
Offline
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 20
i've seen alot of people saying that if anime goes mainstream like gaming it will be great for the industry and the fans, well it will certaintly be great for the indusrty ecspecially the share holders.

while yes, it would be great speaking optimistically it would make grater budgets fr anime and thus push the quality further, but i see that most of the community fails to see the effects of it becoming mainstream, presuming it becomes mainstream majorally in the west, that would imply that maybe a company will buy certain studio and become liek a publisher in gaming (aka like EA),and being its western audience you know damn well they will start pushing some politics into any anime they get their hands on, and then the cycle begins by making trash and pissing off people just like marvel and other works that leaned hard for the money and fell face first on glass.

NOW this isnt based on my opinion, only on patterns observed by certain mediums becoming either mainstream or too mainstream, and we've already saw cases that happened like the anime crunchy roll tried to put out but failed and when funimation added that dub to miss kobayashi's dragon maid specifically lucoa and the outrage over the first episode of goblin slayer, these are cases that are sure to recure again maybe with a worse effect on the anime industry over time.

in conclusion, the western climte currently does not and need no allow anime to become mainstream it will only work to make studio's greedy and the people more likely to push thier opinions in which will inturn make for worse content and division within the community.

but of course im not a god and i dont know for sure this will happen, so feel free to bash me.
Modified by Romboi, Jun 13, 9:45 PM
 
#2
Jun 11, 12:23 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2502
Good thing anime studios don't give two fucks about what the west thinks.



yeah i like jojo
keep scrolling
 
#3
Jun 11, 12:32 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1064
It's adorable how blissfully unaware you are that all of that has already happened.

When I was a kid you couldn't walk into hot topic and buy an Evangelion t-shirt.
 
#4
Jun 11, 12:32 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1158
Orryx said:
Good thing anime studios don't give two fucks about what the west thinks.
A lot of them clearly do with many productions clearly intended for an international release from the start — typically those that keep references to Japanese culture that would be inscrutable for an international audience to a minimum or nonexistence.

Ghost in the Shell, Attack on Titan, and Full Metal Alchemist got an international release from the start. More than 90% of Ghost in the Shell's box office was outside of Japan; they'd be fools from a financial perspective to not consider and they clearly did.

Then there are of course also a wealth of productions that were collaborations between Japan and other countries that were aired simultaneously in both.

Other things are clearly only meant for the Japanese market and the only sub you're going to get a is a fansub.


It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
#5
Jun 11, 12:36 AM
Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 42
You'll only have to worry about this if you are a brainlet shounen fan. Western normies don't give a fuck about most other genres.
 
#6
Jun 11, 12:41 AM

Online
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4845
Oh gosh this topic again.

Romboi said:
i've seen alot of people saying that if anime goes mainstream like gaming it will be great for the industry and the fans, well it will certaintly be great for the indusrty ecspecially the share holders.
I dunno where the "alot [sic] of people" are but people keep on posting hand-wringing anxiety threads about this supposed "westernization" or "going mainstream" of anime here on AD, like your thread here.

Romboi said:
presuming it becomes mainstream majorally in the west, that would imply that maybe a company will buy certain studio and become liek a publisher in gaming (aka like EA),and being its western audience you know damn well they will start pushing some politics into any anime they get their hands on, and then the cycle begins by making trash and pissing off people just like marvel and other works that leaned hard for the money and fell face first on glass.
2. Politics is already in anime, just perhaps not the politics that you're thinking of.
1. Just because some studios do something different doesn't mean that suddenly niches won't be served anymore. By the way the video game industry is doing just fine too. For all those of us who aren't interested in AAA stuff, there's an immense wealth of lesser-known games that we can and do play. Anime similarly serves a bunch of niche interests, because there's money to be made in those niches, and those niches (and that money-fountain) aren't going anywhere, so someone's going to try making that money one way or another.

Romboi said:
the anime crunchy roll tried to put out but failed
Which one? If you're talking about High Guardian Spice, that isn't even an anime. And far as I know it isn't even out yet; dunno where you heard that it "failed", aside from some people pointing at the trailer and yelling at it.

Romboi said:
when funimation added that dub to miss kobayashi's dragon maid specifically lucoa
I'll get around to actually watching this show sometime, and I'll be watching the dub, and at that point I'll decide what I think of it.

Romboi said:
the outrage over the first episode of goblin slayer
and after one big internet slapfest, people stopped giving a crap about it lol.

Romboi said:
in conclusion,
...there's a bunch of people looking to troll (including concern-troll) over crap these days, rather than just actually try to enjoy the stuff they watch. They're oh-so-concerned about pernicious changes to the industry that they seem to have lost perspective that the anime industry -- from style to staff/studios to audience to format to revenue streams and much much more -- has constantly been changing anyway.

If you REALLY want to be concerned about something, perhaps start being concerned about how we used to have a model where people bought DVDs, but now people are streaming everything and so studios have had to adjust by doing stuff involving mobile gacha games and other crappy stuff like that while also pushing crazy amounts of merch in order to try to squeeze dry the hardcore fans as much as they can.
 
#7
Jun 11, 12:46 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 987
I've felt this way and still do to some degree. It's possible that if too many new people join a thing then that thing might change. I still think it would probably be best if anime became more popular.


The popularity of video games has risen tremendously over the years. This has led to more games coming out. I don't like some business practices that have been normalized though. My point is that video games becoming more popular is a mixed bag but mostly good.


I also wanted to say that the controversy surrounding Goblin Slayer increased interest in the show.
 
#8
Jun 11, 12:51 AM
Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 173
Anime is already mainstream and I don't see any apocalypse occurring.

GlennMagusHarvey said:
Oh gosh this topic again.

By the way the video game industry is doing just fine too. For all those of us who aren't interested in AAA stuff, there's an immense wealth of lesser-known games that we can and do play.
Vastly disagree on the video game industry doing fine. If you ONLY play indies I guess you could call it "fine" but indies are a mere fraction of the industry (and a very minute one, at that) and the fixation for microtransaction and lootbox-filled live services is an absolute cancer that isn't going to go away anytime soon (and a cancer that is spreading far and wide, to boot). I don't think there'll be any crash like in the 80s for a variety of reasons but to call the gaming industry "fine" is, to be brutally honest, either misleading or purely ignorant.
 
#9
Jun 11, 1:40 AM

Online
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4845
Kurgo said:
Anime is already mainstream and I don't see any apocalypse occurring.

GlennMagusHarvey said:
Oh gosh this topic again.

By the way the video game industry is doing just fine too. For all those of us who aren't interested in AAA stuff, there's an immense wealth of lesser-known games that we can and do play.
Vastly disagree on the video game industry doing fine. If you ONLY play indies I guess you could call it "fine" but indies are a mere fraction of the industry (and a very minute one, at that) and the fixation for microtransaction and lootbox-filled live services is an absolute cancer that isn't going to go away anytime soon (and a cancer that is spreading far and wide, to boot). I don't think there'll be any crash like in the 80s for a variety of reasons but to call the gaming industry "fine" is, to be brutally honest, either misleading or purely ignorant.
Well certainly not everything is peachy, but the industry on a whole is stable in the sense that demand isn't going anywhere anytime soon and even if some companies go out of business others are quickly filling the vacuum in the marketplace. Meanwhile, the industry does have many problems, including predatory practices like lootboxes (whose legal status is a very currently active issue) and related issues involving gambling and gambling addiction, horrible working conditions and unstable employment of development staff (such as crunch time demands followed by layoffs), and such. There are some of the same problems as in anime, namely issues with finding revenue streams, though in the case of video games I think it's arguably less of a problem since less money is needed to purchase games outright -- particularly older/smaller/lesser-known ones -- so smaller and lesser-known studios have been able to gain a foothold as distribution costs have fallen. (Though in a way this means that competition for revenue is more fierce, giving devs/pubs with small but dedicated followings an advantage but disadvantaging very large studios that depend on large development budgets.) Like you I don't think there will be a crash like that of 1983, but again that's because demand is very strong -- the crash of 1983 was when supply vastly outstripped demand, in what was then a much smaller industry.
 
Jun 11, 1:57 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 712
This is why the whole "weeaboos are weirdos" stereotype doesn't really bother me. Normal people won't change for anime, they will just demand anime change for them if you get them into the medium.
 
Jun 11, 1:58 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 602
Anime should just be a lowkey thing.

I dont want it to be mainstream.
Trust me its a lot better if its just a lowky media.
The main world would not treat anime like japan treats it.
Modified by ThreadFazer, Jun 11, 2:07 AM
"I hate Loli's being sexualize in animes and you should too"
"Save the Children people"
"Say No to the brain washing of Anime."
 
Jun 11, 2:05 AM
SHSL Lesbian

Offline
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 19
Only kiss anime, don't say goodbye.
 
Jun 11, 2:11 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 712
ThreadFazer said:
Anime should just be a lowkey thing.

I dont want it to be mainstream.
Trust me its a lot better if its just a lowky media.
The main world would not treat anime like japan treats it.


I don't see why some people want it to become so popular anyways. I mean, look at what going mainstream did to Marvel and the whole superhero stuff? Surely nobody wants that to happen to anime. And its really not hard to find other people into anime. I feel like we're at a really nice sweet spot where there's enough people into anime that its easy to find other people who like it but its not mainstream or popular enough that the normie crowd is able to change what makes it great.
 
Jun 11, 2:12 AM
Offline
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 3
it could be said that anime is already some what mainstream, and if it becomes even more popular in the west that would mean more demand for anime, I personal don't have an issue either way
 
Jun 11, 2:26 AM
VMC President

Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 247
Anime is already mainsteam
Good bye
 
Jun 11, 2:35 AM

Online
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4845
Ryuk9428 said:
look at what going mainstream did to Marvel and the whole superhero stuff? Surely nobody wants that to happen to anime.
What kind of noodle incident happened?

Because superhero stuff was already mainstream. Marvel's superhero comics and their characters have been part of the U.S. popular consciousness for decades now.

And if the complaint is about deviating from the source material, that already happens all the time in anime, and has also happened multiple times before with superhero franchises (at the very least, in the form of continuity reboots).
Modified by GlennMagusHarvey, Jun 11, 2:39 AM
 
Jun 11, 2:53 AM
Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 45419
another gatekeeping thread #AnimeGate

the only thing capitalists like the anime industry wants is to maximize profit and going global or mainstream will help with that
 
Jun 11, 3:19 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2483
You can simply not watch the "bad western type anime" that they'll be making, there's a ton of good old anime. And let me tell you, if said anine doesn't get good ratings, the creators will think twice before making similar stuff. Why make something that won't sell?
"Even if there's a wide world and stories
beyond the main focus, I don't think
it's necessary to end with the protagonist having
been involved in everything." - Yagi Norihiro
 
Jun 11, 3:20 AM
Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2
The only thing affected by normalization of anim are lolicons and things involving sexuality.

All the others stuff is just bullshit. Anim like Gate, Goblin Slayers,Shield Hero and Yojo Senki are recent things actually. They are trending toward west more than others stuff too.

They use the outrage caused by the subject they approach to sell in a niche market in the west and Japan. They know it will never be mainstream.

Try to look back and find 80s and 90s animé like this...

It was actually more "liberal-compatible" before and mainstream.

In Europe Evangelion, GTO, Pokémon and Dragon Ball were a thing.

But since 2000 politics decided to go all against Japan concerning animé TV-show. That's why you think it's not mainstream anymore. (because you were born in late 90's)
 
Jun 11, 4:18 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 964
ThreadFazer said:
Anime should just be a lowkey thing.

I dont want it to be mainstream.
Trust me its a lot better if its just a lowky media.
The main world would not treat anime like japan treats it.


Yeah right or we will see some SJWs and activists shitting over lolis and moe all over the world. There are already a lot of them on MAL.


"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost."

 
Jun 11, 4:23 AM
Offline
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 30925
It's always sad to see these clueless people panicmongering about bullshit and forcing politics into anime. Go home. We don't want your kind in here.

If anything is ruining anime it is thew influx of braindead, right-wing panicmonger threads like this one. There's one almost every single day these days. That's what makes me think of just quitting the anime community after 10+ years. The 'fans' are just becoming more and more hateful and political and they don't give a shit about watching, enjoying and discussing anime anymore, they just use it as a tool to spread their right-wing panicmongering against anything liberal or leftist. They are bringing politics into this hobby while claiming to hate the left dor doing it. It's so utterly hypocritical and ridiculous, but somehow half the community seems to be falling for it still.

Just be aware that it is YOUR kind ruining the community, not anyone else.
Modified by Pullman, Jun 11, 4:31 AM
no more forums
 
Jun 11, 4:33 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 338
Damn SJWs, they will RUIN our last retreat against SJW propaganda ;-; The West has already fallen uwu But we have the power of God and Anime by our side. Don't fear, comrades, the SJWs will not conquer us, Deus Vult.




"I'll become a human torch again today and give full rein to my suffering."
 
Jun 11, 4:45 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 2908
Hell nah, stop it with the fallacious arguments. Go and sleep or play with your toys.
No more posts.
 
Jun 11, 4:51 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 47
The only thing I'm worried about is studios deciding to overproduce crappy anime with all the anime buzz going around. Oh wait, that's the reality.
 
Jun 11, 6:12 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 279
Pullman said:
It's always sad to see these clueless people panicmongering about bullshit and forcing politics into anime. Go home. We don't want your kind in here.

If anything is ruining anime it is thew influx of braindead, right-wing panicmonger threads like this one. There's one almost every single day these days. That's what makes me think of just quitting the anime community after 10+ years. The 'fans' are just becoming more and more hateful and political and they don't give a shit about watching, enjoying and discussing anime anymore, they just use it as a tool to spread their right-wing panicmongering against anything liberal or leftist. They are bringing politics into this hobby while claiming to hate the left dor doing it. It's so utterly hypocritical and ridiculous, but somehow half the community seems to be falling for it still.

Just be aware that it is YOUR kind ruining the community, not anyone else.


Speak for yourself. I want a forum that welcomes all kinds of views, even those directly opposed to mine.

I have already watched other online communities turn into echo chambers, and I don't want to see it happen to MAL.

If you want to leave, you're free to do so. I fail to see why you would though. No one is ruining anything, that's just being overly dramatic. It's literally just someone expressing concerns.

Valid ones? Perhaps. Depends on who you ask.
 
Jun 11, 6:20 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9849
That's the biggest non-issue I've seen in a while, thanks for the chuckle and don't forget about fighting to preserve a culture you don't understand from Western influences you don't understand either.
 
Jun 11, 6:54 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 98
You must be really fun at parties, I imagine. You accuse the mainstream of being delicate crybabies while being one yourself. (wo)Man up and stop being paranoid.
doctrina, ingenium, exercitatio
 
Jun 11, 7:09 AM
fanservice<3

Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 9773
the problem isn't going mainstream...


the problem is just getting woke


which Japan isn't... which is why anime isn't... even if most japanese aren't even into anime, as long as the country avoids SJW mentality, anime should be safe of changing to meet a family friendly or w/e bullshit status quo
.
 
Jun 11, 7:14 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4831
so long as ecchi and fanservice don't disappear entirely or get reconstructed into some bastardized form by the same people who think the Witcher's take on nudity would at all be something that'd serve as an adequate replacement, then i don't see a reason to give a fuck, certainly not to take up arms and join what i'm sure is the most absolutely noble and honorabu fight against western influence on anime

niches won't inherently be impacted by a larger audience for works outside of the niche, people who take fundamental issue with a type of work or are offput by it are still much less likely to contribute to the growth of that product in any way and that in of itself will probably relegate them to a role of even less importance than a goddamn peripheral audience, and normie shit has always existed and that in of itself isn't anything to worry over, this isn't even an anime-exclusive thing
Modified by Manaban, Jun 11, 7:19 AM
 
Jun 11, 7:37 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1158
MemeRetro said:
You'll only have to worry about this if you are a brainlet shounen fan. Western normies don't give a fuck about most other genres.
"syounen" is hardly a genre; it's mostly the "magical martial arts" stuff that became popular outside of Japan.


It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
Jun 11, 7:39 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 7
I have to agree with most of the other people, anime is already mainstream. I don't really see any issues occurring
 
Jun 11, 7:45 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1158
vanilie said:
I have to agree with most of the other people, anime is already mainstream. I don't really see any issues occurring
If anything it being mainstream leads to greater acceptance of incest and loli themes which is naturally always a very good idea.


It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
Jun 11, 8:11 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1371
What does mainstream even mean in this context? Because I don't count a growing audience for Crunchyroll as a sign of it becoming mainstream. At least not yet.

There has almost always existed a layer of mainstream anime that managed to somehow keep the normalfags at a distance. I mean, people who watch 2 or 3 anime a year simply aren't attracted to the rest no matter if they exist in 2004 or 2019. Just look at popular anime content on youtube, these people have almost no cultural connection with the rest of the anime fandom.

There are simply too many aspects of anime culture that could never become mainstream, even if some specific anime definitely have the capability of doing so.

 
Jun 11, 8:44 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1179
you are just fear mongering for no reason

your afraid that anime is going to be affected by western sensibilities but i assure you it already has. The world is more connected than not. On the same note, the west has been influenced by Japanese as well.
https://combosmooth.itch.io/ - I make free-to-play browser games for PC and I sell pixel art animation here
 
Jun 11, 8:50 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6475
Unfortunately, when you're not only well-versed with political theory but have spent years having to write about it, you can't help but see everything with some political influence in it, deliberate or not. As for anime becoming mainstream, I wouldn't know what part would be the most ironic - despite the prices of BD's and box sets becoming cheaper, people would still pirate them and complain about how anime is dying and nothing good comes out anymore, or the same people who have been claiming that this would be the best thing for the western anime fans complaining that there is too much western influence in their Chinese cartoons. Either way, I'll continue my support for the series I like and I'll be happy with the occasional gems that get released, mainstream or not.
I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives.

 
Jun 11, 8:57 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5760
I don't understand how a specialization into "otaku territories" going every year stronger will make japanese animation grow up in the general audience... (by the way, it was mainly "mainstream" initially)
 
Jun 11, 9:16 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 839
Vorpality said:
It's adorable how blissfully unaware you are that all of that has already happened.

When I was a kid you couldn't walk into hot topic and buy an Evangelion t-shirt.


Yeah we are already well into being mainstream. In Walmart I see Dragon ball and Attack on Titan Shirts for sale. It's not all bad, I like that now we can easily see anime movies in local theaters.
 
Jun 11, 10:26 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 786
The topic and content of ur thread are totally different LOL. I thought u were gonna talk about disappearing of pirate sites after anime goes mainstream. Which will never be the case coz if u close one pirate site, four new sites will be made at the same time. This is how piracy works.

Best Couple ---> Senjougahara x Araragi
 
Jun 11, 11:27 AM

Online
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 745
Has MAL invented a time machine?

Ryuk9428 said:
I mean, look at what going mainstream did to Marvel and the whole superhero stuff? Surely nobody wants that to happen to anime.

Yes, shitting out box office hits every couple year sure seems like a bad move from them. But no offence, if you honestly think Marvel and DC have never aimed for mainstream appeal until recently you have pretty limited knowledge on comics.
 
Jun 11, 8:36 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 712
Pullman said:
It's always sad to see these clueless people panicmongering about bullshit and forcing politics into anime. Go home. We don't want your kind in here.

If anything is ruining anime it is thew influx of braindead, right-wing panicmonger threads like this one. There's one almost every single day these days. That's what makes me think of just quitting the anime community after 10+ years. The 'fans' are just becoming more and more hateful and political and they don't give a shit about watching, enjoying and discussing anime anymore, they just use it as a tool to spread their right-wing panicmongering against anything liberal or leftist. They are bringing politics into this hobby while claiming to hate the left dor doing it. It's so utterly hypocritical and ridiculous, but somehow half the community seems to be falling for it still.

Just be aware that it is YOUR kind ruining the community, not anyone else.


You complain about the right wing weebs but the right wing weebs are just trying to keep anime the same as it always has been. At most, the only time you have to deal with us is online. Right wing weebs will never change the content of anime itself.

I guarantee you, if there was a large influx of liberal SJWs getting into anime, they'd have a lot to say about you being into lolicon. Furthermore, they won't just pester you online, they will be a lot more outspoken about trying to change the actual content of anime. That's exactly what they did to Marvel and all the comic books. Whereas the right wing weebs aren't going to do anything to change anime.

Sure we can all say that the Japanese don't give a flying fuck about SJWs in America. But do you really want to take the risk that they won't? Even if the Japanese specifically don't listen, the community would change forever if SJWs flooded it.
 
Jun 11, 9:31 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 164
Personally I would like to see the US start producing more of it's own animated TV series that would become as popular as anime is right now... I know there are some but the genres are really limited in comparison to what there is for anime.
 
Jun 11, 10:22 PM

Online
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4845
syncrogazer said:
What does mainstream even mean in this context? Because I don't count a growing audience for Crunchyroll as a sign of it becoming mainstream. At least not yet.

There has almost always existed a layer of mainstream anime that managed to somehow keep the normalfags at a distance. I mean, people who watch 2 or 3 anime a year simply aren't attracted to the rest no matter if they exist in 2004 or 2019. Just look at popular anime content on youtube, these people have almost no cultural connection with the rest of the anime fandom.

There are simply too many aspects of anime culture that could never become mainstream, even if some specific anime definitely have the capability of doing so.

Yeah, the audience for every large medium (of which anime is an example) includes people in it for both more "mainstream" stuff and for more niche stuff.

To try to put all of the anime fandom into one single bin is like trying to group me (someone who pretty much only ever watches Law & Order anymore, as far as TV fiction is concerned) with all those fans of Game of Thrones (which is a series I've pretty much entirely ignored from beginning to end) because we both "watch TV".

Ryuk9428 said:
You complain about the right wing weebs but the right wing weebs are just trying to keep anime the same as it always has been. At most, the only time you have to deal with us is online. Right wing weebs will never change the content of anime itself.
They won't because they geographically can't. Meanwhile, they keep forcing their own political insinuations on others, raising ideological panics (in analogy to "moral panic") like this, concern trolling to get others to join their crusade against "SJWs"/"feminists"/"liberals"/etc., and drawing battle lines in opinion-space to turn simple disagreements of opinion into existential turf-warfare.

Let's be frank here, people have a variety of opinions on anime and the anime fandom. Cool. I'm not going to be guilted into liking/disliking things just because they fit someone's agenda.

And if someone wants to rally people to their shadowboxing crusade, then they have as much right to do so as I do to opine that I think their crusade is a load of paranoid crap.
 
Jun 11, 10:52 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 712
GlennMagusHarvey said:
syncrogazer said:
What does mainstream even mean in this context? Because I don't count a growing audience for Crunchyroll as a sign of it becoming mainstream. At least not yet.

There has almost always existed a layer of mainstream anime that managed to somehow keep the normalfags at a distance. I mean, people who watch 2 or 3 anime a year simply aren't attracted to the rest no matter if they exist in 2004 or 2019. Just look at popular anime content on youtube, these people have almost no cultural connection with the rest of the anime fandom.

There are simply too many aspects of anime culture that could never become mainstream, even if some specific anime definitely have the capability of doing so.

Yeah, the audience for every large medium (of which anime is an example) includes people in it for both more "mainstream" stuff and for more niche stuff.

To try to put all of the anime fandom into one single bin is like trying to group me (someone who pretty much only ever watches Law & Order anymore, as far as TV fiction is concerned) with all those fans of Game of Thrones (which is a series I've pretty much entirely ignored from beginning to end) because we both "watch TV".

Ryuk9428 said:
You complain about the right wing weebs but the right wing weebs are just trying to keep anime the same as it always has been. At most, the only time you have to deal with us is online. Right wing weebs will never change the content of anime itself.
They won't because they geographically can't. Meanwhile, they keep forcing their own political insinuations on others, raising ideological panics (in analogy to "moral panic") like this, concern trolling to get others to join their crusade against "SJWs"/"feminists"/"liberals"/etc., and drawing battle lines in opinion-space to turn simple disagreements of opinion into existential turf-warfare.

Let's be frank here, people have a variety of opinions on anime and the anime fandom. Cool. I'm not going to be guilted into liking/disliking things just because they fit someone's agenda.

And if someone wants to rally people to their shadowboxing crusade, then they have as much right to do so as I do to opine that I think their crusade is a load of paranoid crap.


Geographically, they can't do anything about what's happening in Japan, true. But they if something becomes too international, the companies will start thinking about what will appeal to foreigners and will start limiting tropes in anime that they think mainstream foreigners would be uncomfortable with. The main reason this hasn't happened is because Japan is a particularly isolated country culturally. They get some tourists but that's about it. Even internet wise, I hardly ever see anybody from Japan on an English speaking website despite how many Japanese there are out there because the Japanese have a hard time with foreign languages compared to other countries. This is true of several other Asian countries too whereas I see Europeans on English speaking websites all the time. I even see Russians somewhat often despite the major differences in our languages.

So basically, I get the feeling most Japanese people are only visiting Japanese websites, which contributes to their country being unusually isolated in a cultural sense despite the fact that foreigners consume their culture a lot. I think the cultural isolation is really protecting Japan from SJW influence more than anything.

Ultimately though, companies go where the money is, and if Westerners started becoming an important market for anime companies to appeal to or if they thought anime was becoming mainstream in the US, they might try to make anime seem more international rather than being a strongly Japanese product if that makes any sense. The impression that I get is that the Japanese aren't even aware of how many Westerners like anime right now. It could be that we aren't contributing a whole lot due to rampant piracy, but it also just seems like Japan is really caught up in their own bubble.

I think they're better off that way though and would rather not disturb that bubble.
 
Jun 11, 11:13 PM
Offline
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 703
I have a hard time taking someone seriously when they just overexaggerate and don't really acknowledge how complicated things like this actually are. Anime is big, but it's not video game levels of big, the biggest market is still Japan, and while it's not completely mainstream over there, it's still pretty damn big. Why would becoming mainstream in other countries that barely net these studios money have such a gigantic change as you anticipate? Yes certain studios will see overseas interest and will adjust their business model, but nothing nearly as abhorrent as what's going on with the video game industry.

Also, very, VERY different mediums. Not only is it dumb to compare, but it also makes it hard to see certain practices in one medium roll over to another. It's not nearly as simple as you fearmongerers attempt to make it seem. When I see people attempting to "inform" others of "dangers" like this, I feel like I', seeing a college student who passed Economics 101 with a C+ attempting to persuade people he's completely knowledgeable about what caused the Great Depression.
 
Jun 11, 11:31 PM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 712
OnionKnightRises said:
I have a hard time taking someone seriously when they just overexaggerate and don't really acknowledge how complicated things like this actually are. Anime is big, but it's not video game levels of big, the biggest market is still Japan, and while it's not completely mainstream over there, it's still pretty damn big. Why would becoming mainstream in other countries that barely net these studios money have such a gigantic change as you anticipate? Yes certain studios will see overseas interest and will adjust their business model, but nothing nearly as abhorrent as what's going on with the video game industry.

Also, very, VERY different mediums. Not only is it dumb to compare, but it also makes it hard to see certain practices in one medium roll over to another. It's not nearly as simple as you fearmongerers attempt to make it seem. When I see people attempting to "inform" others of "dangers" like this, I feel like I', seeing a college student who passed Economics 101 with a C+ attempting to persuade people he's completely knowledgeable about what caused the Great Depression.


The primary market right now is Japan. Japan is a country of 125 million people. The US has 330 million people, Canada has 40 million people, the continent of Europe has a total of 750 million people.

Even if anime only went mainstream in the US, Canada, and Australia, that'd be 400 million people which is over three times the size of Japan. Let's say 1/3 of the population of Japan regularly watches anime. Pretty generous number. All it would take is 40 million people from those three countries combined which would be about 10% of the population to compete with the Japanese market.
 
Jun 11, 11:34 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 816
Damn dude I thought kissanime gone byebye.



"... Because when you live in this world of my closed eyes...
... Being alone is very lonely..."
.


 
Jun 11, 11:45 PM
Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 20
Kurgo said:
Anime is already mainstream and I don't see any apocalypse occurring.

GlennMagusHarvey said:
Oh gosh this topic again.

By the way the video game industry is doing just fine too. For all those of us who aren't interested in AAA stuff, there's an immense wealth of lesser-known games that we can and do play.
Vastly disagree on the video game industry doing fine. If you ONLY play indies I guess you could call it "fine" but indies are a mere fraction of the industry (and a very minute one, at that) and the fixation for microtransaction and lootbox-filled live services is an absolute cancer that isn't going to go away anytime soon (and a cancer that is spreading far and wide, to boot). I don't think there'll be any crash like in the 80s for a variety of reasons but to call the gaming industry "fine" is, to be brutally honest, either misleading or purely ignorant.


To bring the video game analogy back, you can get along very well in video games just following indies and a couple of studios that do as you like. The industry is large enough that I can ignore everything I don't care about. If I'm concerned about anything, I guess, it's the awful workplace conditions and overcrowded markets.

However, I'm aware that this is just my perspective as someone who prefers indie stuff. I'm only immune because I never got into the big franchises or trends.

The equivalent in anime and movies would be following arthouse productions. Nutjob creators like Ikuhara are always going to be doing their own thing, never gaining mainstream popularity but also being hardly immune against mainstream influence.
 
Jun 12, 12:25 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 5178
1. blame capitalism
2. stop crying about studios catering to other audiences, you can’t expect to always be among the ones all the content is produced for.
3. muh Politics, politics is in fucking everything, deal with it.
Go read the One Punch Man manga please, this awful adaptation by JC Staff is a disgrace.
 
Jun 12, 12:54 AM

Online
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4845
Ryuk9428 said:
Geographically, they can't do anything about what's happening in Japan, true. But they if something becomes too international, the companies will start thinking about what will appeal to foreigners and will start limiting tropes in anime that they think mainstream foreigners would be uncomfortable with.
You make it sound like the Japanese don't limit their tropes in the first place, but in fact they do, and people complain about it all the time already.

Besides, the anime industry is already an entertainment industry, and not only that, it is already an entertainment industry that appeals lucratively to a variety of niches, even in its home country.

The reasons for the "tropeyness" you often see people complain about -- the reasons for limiting their tropes -- are actually commercial reasons, and in fact, they are specifically because they are trying to appeal specifically to niches -- rather than to shut them out, as your reasoning suggests.

Going "mainstream" by gaining popularity, ironically, would mean exposing the anime industry to a wider variety of audiences, meaning expanding the variety of niches they could serve, thus serving to de-limit the tropeyness. It would only mean they can serve more niches -- since more people means more varied tastes, and more varied tastes to appeal to means more potential ways to make money.

On the other hand, if by "mainstream" you mean works that have a wide demographic appeal...they already exist. We have had Ghibli movies for many years now. We have movies like A Silent Voice. And so on. And the anime industry has not suffered for their existence; on the contrary, they just serve to enrich the landscape of the medium. And they, too, will continue to be made, because...again, there's money to be made from them.

(And let's be frank, this is probably a more generalized way of saying "SJWs are gonna take away our beloved fanservice". Except they won't, because they don't even make anime, and let's face it, there's money to be made in fanservice, criticisms be damned. Consider that people have regarded prostitution as seedy since frackin' forever, yet "the world's oldest profession" still exists today.)

Ryuk9428 said:
Ultimately though, companies go where the money is, and if Westerners started becoming an important market for anime companies to appeal to or if they thought anime was becoming mainstream in the US, they might try to make anime seem more international rather than being a strongly Japanese product if that makes any sense.
That only makes sense if "anime" is only one thing that can only have one cultural perspective.

But "anime" is not one thing.

"Anime" is hundreds (possibly thousands, if we count the ones we don't know about?) of different productions every single year. Like I mentioned above, there's a variety of works, including both of ones that appeal to more mainstream audiences and ones that appeal to specific niches.

Ryuk9428 said:
The impression that I get is that the Japanese aren't even aware of how many Westerners like anime right now. It could be that we aren't contributing a whole lot due to rampant piracy, but it also just seems like Japan is really caught up in their own bubble.
That might have been true back in the early 90s, but that almost certainly hasn't been true starting from when kids' shounen shows got big back then, and is very definitely no longer true today. And even if the anime shows themselves are pirated, there's clearly a demand for merchandise, as well as a demand for other fan activities, from cosplay at conventions to gacha games. Even the Japanese government is aware that a medium that they once considered to be their cultural seedy underbelly is now one of their biggest cultural exports. They ain't stupid; it's sorta obvious what those gaijin are up to.
Modified by GlennMagusHarvey, Jun 12, 12:58 AM
 
Jun 12, 1:33 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1097
Vorpality said:
It's adorable how blissfully unaware you are that all of that has already happened.

When I was a kid you couldn't walk into hot topic and buy an Evangelion t-shirt.


This.

When the Anime community as a whole neglects raising the bar and keeping standards low we get forum post like this. I mean the poor bastard thought this wasn't mainstream yet. Just a glance around and it's obvious half the people who watch Anime now do so because it's WAAAYYY more fashionable now then it was just a decade ago.

Speaking of days gone. Anime died in 2009. Buried in 2012. Resurrection pending.
 
Top
Pages (6) [1] 2 3 » ... Last »