When it comes to Taiwan, China’s generals say they are simply following the example of U.S. President Abraham Lincoln. China’s Defense Minister Wei Fenghe on Sunday invoked Lincoln’s efforts during the U.S. Civil War to justify Beijing’s approach toward Taiwan, which it sees as an integral part of its territory that must be unified by force if necessary. “American friends told me that Abraham Lincoln was the greatest American president because he led the country to victory in the Civil War and prevented the secession of the U.S.,” Wei said on Sunday at the Shangri-La Dialogue, a security conference in Singapore. “The U.S. is indivisible, so is China. China must be and will be reunified.” Tensions over China and Taiwan have increased in recent months, with the U.S. regularly sailing warships through the Taiwan Strait. The Trump administration has defended the moves as demonstrations of free passage allowed by international law, while China sees them as provocations. Wei said that China could “find no justifiable reasons” for the U.S. to get involved with China through its domestic law. “No attempts to split China shall succeed,” he said, adding that “foreign intervention in the Taiwan question is doomed to failure.” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-02/china-invokes-abraham-lincoln-in-justifying-push-to-take-taiwan Nice quote by the Chinese defense minister, wait until they invoke James Monroe and then finally Truman. |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
| Lol. Unlike Lincoln, it is victory or death for Taiwan. They should be well aware what will happen should they fall to China. They will be imprisoned and cut up like cattle to be sold on the organ black market. You will find folks are much less likely to capitulate with only those options before them. |
SoverignJun 2, 2019 4:41 PM
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Soverign said: I'm not aware of the organ black market thing though I heard about it somewhere.Lol. Unlike Lincoln, it is victory or death for Taiwan. They should be well aware what will happen should they fall to China. They will be imprisoned and cut up like cattle to be sold on the organ black market. You will find folks are much less likely to capitulate with only those options before them. Taiwan Shall fight for its own existence, if they fail they become just a little fraction of a monster population. Nobody wants to lose its rights and representation as a majority and suddenly become a minority in a single party regime. |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
Fate_Saber88 said: Soverign said: I'm not aware of the organ black market thing though I heard about it somewhere.Lol. Unlike Lincoln, it is victory or death for Taiwan. They should be well aware what will happen should they fall to China. They will be imprisoned and cut up like cattle to be sold on the organ black market. You will find folks are much less likely to capitulate with only those options before them. Taiwan Shall fight for its own existence, if they fail they become just a little fraction of a monster population. Nobody wants to lose its rights and representation as a majority and suddenly become a minority in a single party regime. It is old news. There was a documentary on how at first the state supported falun gong as a healthy exercise or something ( think tai-chi or something). Then it got popular and they used it to imprison everyone who did it, seize their wealth and harvest their organs. It is cool I am sure they had low social credit anyways. |
SoverignJun 2, 2019 5:38 PM
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Soverign said: Sounds ''cool'' maybe one day if I ever need an organ I buy some low priced Chinese liver from Taiwan.Fate_Saber88 said: I'm not aware of the organ black market thing though I heard about it somewhere. Taiwan Shall fight for its own existence, if they fail they become just a little fraction of a monster population. Nobody wants to lose its rights and representation as a majority and suddenly become a minority in a single party regime. It is old news. There was a documentary on how at first the state supported falun gong as a healthy exercise or something ( think tai-chi or something). Then it got popular and they used it to imprison everyone who did it, seize their wealth and harvest their organs. It is cool I am sure they had low social credit anyways. |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
Fate_Saber88 said: Soverign said: I'm not aware of the organ black market thing though I heard about it somewhere.Lol. Unlike Lincoln, it is victory or death for Taiwan. They should be well aware what will happen should they fall to China. They will be imprisoned and cut up like cattle to be sold on the organ black market. You will find folks are much less likely to capitulate with only those options before them. Taiwan Shall fight for its own existence, if they fail they become just a little fraction of a monster population. Nobody wants to lose its rights and representation as a majority and suddenly become a minority in a single party regime. How would they even fight lmao Literally the worst type of geography to try to wage a war against overwhelming force. They literally live on an island. It would be a massacre. Their existence pretty much relies on US support and maybe the international community. Ok maybe not the international community because they would probably look the other way since none of them could stand up to China anyways or wouldn't have the political will to do so. |
zzzeally said: I didn't said Taiwan could win a war against China. I just pointed one of their reasons to at least try to oppose the Chinese forces. Honestly I think Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan are lost causes, they wouldn't get enough endorsement for a full escale military action from NATO, Japan and South Korea. Fate_Saber88 said: I'm not aware of the organ black market thing though I heard about it somewhere. Taiwan Shall fight for its own existence, if they fail they become just a little fraction of a monster population. Nobody wants to lose its rights and representation as a majority and suddenly become a minority in a single party regime. How would they even fight lmao Literally the worst type of geography to try to wage a war against overwhelming force. They literally live on an island. It would be a massacre. Their existence pretty much relies on US support and maybe the international community. Ok maybe not the international community because they would probably look the other way since none of them could stand up to China anyways or wouldn't have the political will to do so. Their best chance is to get strong enough to inflict some considerable damage on the Chinese armed forces in order to make China think twice before an action. If a war breaks out it would be an one sided massacre for sure.(unless American forces fully commit to intervene) |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
Fate_Saber88 said: zzzeally said: I didn't said Taiwan could win a war against China. I just pointed one of their reasons to at least try to oppose the Chinese forces. Honestly I think Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan are lost causes, they wouldn't get enough endorsement for a full escale military action from NATO, Japan and South Korea. How would they even fight lmao Literally the worst type of geography to try to wage a war against overwhelming force. They literally live on an island. It would be a massacre. Their existence pretty much relies on US support and maybe the international community. Ok maybe not the international community because they would probably look the other way since none of them could stand up to China anyways or wouldn't have the political will to do so. Their best chance is to get strong enough to inflict some considerable damage on the Chinese armed forces in order to make China think twice before an action. If a war breaks out it would be an one sided massacre for sure.(unless American forces fully commit to intervene) Japan would be committed based on the fact Taiwan is the barrier separating them from Chinese control. I also believe that American forces would be 100% committed |
| @Nightmare21st There are many hypotheticals so I'm based on the fact of economic damage and the political polarity in the U.S, any war today would be a tragic ending for any American presidential term be it GOP or Democrat. Also the cost of a war thousand miles away against the 3rd strongest military in the world could be catastrophic to the the point it wouldn't worth the effort. As for the Japanese interests I know their military rebuild but the Japanese need to drop their pacific doctrines embedded on their constitution before waging any war. |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
| Abie probably would be remembered less favorably had the secession not been about the continued "States' Right" to own the negroid man as property. Similar to how forcing Catalonia to remain with Spain is not looked at with the greatest admiration around the world — but then again with respect to the hole Crimea situation the world seems to support Ukraine for what I assume is that it's popular to hate Russia and to be fair Russia only cared about "liberating" Crimea because it's a strategically important area for them. |
 It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
| Poohping thinks he's a hero but we all know he's 100% villain that Lincoln would disapprove of. |
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Fate_Saber88 said: @Nightmare21st There are many hypotheticals so I'm based on the fact of economic damage and the political polarity in the U.S, any war today would be a tragic ending for any American presidential term be it GOP or Democrat. Also the cost of a war thousand miles away against the 3rd strongest military in the world could be catastrophic to the the point it wouldn't worth the effort. As for the Japanese interests I know their military rebuild but the Japanese need to drop their pacific doctrines embedded on their constitution before waging any war. I know they would 100% do this. I have studied and read many articles and scenarios about this because its a very interesting topic. The US would have to come to Taiwan aid. How would it look to the world if the US which stands for freedom and democracy lets a tyrannical country take over another democracy? |
| Taiwan's destruction would be pretty immediate, I imagine, whereas Hong Kong is much more gradual. That would leave only Japan and South Korea as the remaining decent countries in East Asia. Anyway, I don't think they would try anything at this very moment since the US has a president in office who would not mind going to war with China. Makes more sense to wait for someone else to take office. |
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China imperialism cannot be stopped so no hope for Taiwan same here in the Philippines  |
gaq_t said: All right none of the interventions mentioned above applies for Taiwan and it doesn't make a Chinese military action any better.Anyone that thinks foreign intervention, And especislly U.S intervention, would help - is insane. No matter where the U.S's freedom and democracy go, it leave a path of blood and massacre. 1 - Iraq where they left 500k+ Civilians dead 2 - Syria where they supported tons if rebel groups who commited terrorist acts to defy the Syrian army, hurting civilians and prolonging the war 3 - in the Saudi/Yemeni war, arming KSA to literally commit genocide against Yemenis. 4 - in the Saudi/Iran war, America has taken KSA's side. ^ That's for the Middle East, Funny how it has the most de-stability and the most western intervention at the same time. But hey, the tErRoRiStS. 5. Overthrowing a dictator in Argentina and installing a U.S supported authoritarian leader which lead to more rape and murder under this leadership. 6. Supporting Chilean dictator Augustus Pinochet. 7. After Venezuelans re-elected Chavez, Bush's administration started a coup yo get rid of him again. Honestly, I'd feel bad for Taiwan if the U.S intervened. I'd feel bad for Taiwan if they get overpowered by the Chinese regime as well. |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
| I've been looking after the Filipino struggle to keep away the Chinese abusive maritime claims. I guess the best option is to strengthen the armed forces of all regional nations and start bullying Chinese fishing boats so they can get a bit of their poison. Also I think it's counterproductive for China to start bullying other regional nations they won't gain the hearts of the people and they might bite their own tongue one day. Japan is getting a strong military as well if Japan change their stance towards military interventions (I think one day they will) the Chinese might get stranded in an eternal regional power struggle that they won't win if they fail to gain popularity. |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
Veronin said: Taiwan's destruction would be pretty immediate, I imagine, whereas Hong Kong is much more gradual. I don't think so, China's military isn't that strong atm. and Taiwan is an island which means it has a really huge natural advantage when it comes to defending itself against a foreign invader. It may take months or even years. The video below explains it in detail (of course no nukes or international intervention). |
| Man, these guys have gone against what Deng Xiaoping had warned decades ago. China became the tyrant he feared it'd turn into. I can only guess the huge loss for China in the long run assuming they successfully took over Taiwan. There's really not much to gain anymore to that afterwards, only more resentment and defiance to its neighbors and its allies. |
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gaq_t said: Anyone that thinks foreign intervention, And especislly U.S intervention, would help - is insane. No matter where the U.S's freedom and democracy go, it leave a path of blood and massacre. 1 - Iraq where they left 500k+ Civilians dead 2 - Syria where they supported tons if rebel groups who commited terrorist acts to defy the Syrian army, hurting civilians and prolonging the war 3 - in the Saudi/Yemeni war, arming KSA to literally commit genocide against Yemenis. 4 - in the Saudi/Iran war, America has taken KSA's side. ^ That's for the Middle East, Funny how it has the most de-stability and the most western intervention at the same time. But hey, the tErRoRiStS. 5. Overthrowing a dictator in Argentina and installing a U.S supported authoritarian leader which lead to more rape and murder under this leadership. 6. Supporting Chilean dictator Augustus Pinochet. 7. After Venezuelans re-elected Chavez, Bush's administration started a coup yo get rid of him again. Honestly, I'd feel bad for Taiwan if the U.S intervened. It is pretty amusing that the KSA amassed more soldiers in Northern Thunder than Russia in Vostok -2018. 350,000 to 300,000. Before the US sent a carrier strike group and some B-52s |
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149597871 said: What you on about mate? lol China literally has one of the strongest militaries next to russia and the USVeronin said: Taiwan's destruction would be pretty immediate, I imagine, whereas Hong Kong is much more gradual. I don't think so, China's military isn't that strong atm. and Taiwan is an island which means it has a really huge natural advantage when it comes to defending itself against a foreign invader. It may take months or even years. The video below explains it in detail (of course no nukes or international intervention). |
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149597871 said: All right the video is good and shows a good equiped Taiwanese armed forces but being nicely equiped doesn't mean anything there because China is also good equiped , do you really think defend a tiny island is an advantage? Taiwan is nothing like Nam or Afghanistan, China is just a few miles from Taiwan and they are the 3rd strongest military in the world.Veronin said: Taiwan's destruction would be pretty immediate, I imagine, whereas Hong Kong is much more gradual. I don't think so, China's military isn't that strong atm. and Taiwan is an island which means it has a really huge natural advantage when it comes to defending itself against a foreign invader. It may take months or even years. The video below explains it in detail (of course no nukes or international intervention). If no superpower intervene Taiwan doesn't have much chances, China just needs to carry a naval quarantine a few miles from its homeland and it's already 50% of a victory. |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
gaq_t said: Fate_Saber88 said: All right none of the interventions mentioned above applies for Taiwan and it doesn't make a Chinese military action any better. I'd feel bad for Taiwan if they get overpowered by the Chinese regime as well. How do none apply? Are you waiting for history to play over again and again? Taiwanese people are going to be massacred and raped left and right, not only by Chinese troops, but this time American ones too. Do you really think America cares about Taiwan? It just wants to stop China in any way. You got everything wrong from a power and moral perspective they would defend Taiwan. Thats based on the fact that how would it look if a hostile power would took over a democracy and the US just didn't do anything, they would lose their influence. Not to mention that Taiwan is the only thing separating the Japanese from China. |
gaq_t said: Fate_Saber88 said: All right none of the interventions mentioned above applies for Taiwan and it doesn't make a Chinese military action any better. I'd feel bad for Taiwan if they get overpowered by the Chinese regime as well. How do none apply? Are you waiting for history to play over again and again? Taiwanese people are going to be massacred and raped left and right, not only by Chinese troops, but this time American ones too. Do you really think America cares about Taiwan? It just wants to stop China in any way. Story about US army raping Okinawa women is nothing new, which is why there are protest by Okinawa people to chase out US military from Okinawa. Japan protests alleged rape case by US sailor on Okinawa https://apnews.com/2d8e24d128cd497fb5cbe1741613e67b These are list of countries that recognize Taiwan as independent state. All nations that recognize Taiwan as an independent state are: Belize El Salvador Guatemala Haiti Honduras Kiribati Marshall Islands Nauru Nicaragua Palau Paraguay Saint Kitts and Nevis Saint Lucia Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Solomon Islands Swaziland Tuvalu Vatican City http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-that-recognize-taiwan/ Japan is not on the list. Japan will not intervene if China do anything to Taiwan as Japan officially recognize Taiwan as part of China. I doubt Trump care about Taiwan. He just want to use Taiwan as a way to get China into trade war agreement. Trump even ask Japan to pay more for US military, Taiwan pay none. Trump wants Germany, Japan and others to pay full cost plus a premium for US troops https://www.stripes.com/news/report-trump-wants-germany-japan-and-others-to-pay-full-cost-plus-a-premium-for-us-troops-1.571839 US and Japan won't do anything if China really attack Taiwan as both officially recognize Taiwan as part of China. |
Papa_ScorchJun 3, 2019 7:25 PM
deg said: @gaq_t looking at the 3 superpowers military wise (USA, China, Russia) who is the lesser evil? dont say i rather remove them all because that is not possible at the moment Most evil list backed by evidence: 1. China 2. Russia 3. US Countries most threat to world peace: 1. China 2. US. 3. Russia |
| @Fate_Saber88 @Cneq Maybe I shouldn't use the adjective "strong" although it is accurate. Having the weapons and numbers isn't the same as having military strength. Yes, China is one of the "strongest" on paper but when it comes to organizing and deploying the army it is safe to say that their current state isn't that good. To put it simple, they aren't ready for war. Although yes, Taiwan will ultimately lose if there is no intervention. What I said is that it is not going to be an "instant loss" as many people believe. |
gaq_t said: deg said: @gaq_t looking at the 3 superpowers military wise (USA, China, Russia) who is the lesser evil? dont say i rather remove them all because that is not possible at the moment Most evil/ U.S My reason: leaving over half a million innocent civilians dead in the Middle East, supporting wars and prolonging wars in the Middle East, overthrowing leaders to instal U.S supported leaders and on and on. Russia is also horrible, But most of ehat China does is to it's own people lol.. ye you can say that but to me its because the world police right now is USA so all eyes and all criticisms are on them, but if the world police becomes either Russia and China being authoritatians and master of disinformation to destabilize countries or deceive its own citizens then damn what more if they are the world police lol |
deg said: gaq_t said: Most evil/ U.S My reason: leaving over half a million innocent civilians dead in the Middle East, supporting wars and prolonging wars in the Middle East, overthrowing leaders to instal U.S supported leaders and on and on. Russia is also horrible, But most of ehat China does is to it's own people lol.. ye you can say that but to me its because the world police right now is USA so all eyes and all criticisms are on them, but if the world police becomes either Russia and China being authoritatians and master of disinformation to destabilize countries or deceive its own citizens then damn what more if they are the world police lol I think China will say : "hey, everybody ,let's make money."→з→ |
| Just based on some of these comments I find it funny how everybody hates the U.S. so much for its foreign policy but as soon as another country gives them problems America is the first they go to for help. As for Taiwan, I can't see anybody coming to Taiwan's direct military aid. From a strategic standpoint it is not significant enough to merit a full on clash between powers, the most China will get is international protest, some sanctions and some tariffs or some junk while Japan and SK will have a fit and build up their military some more. |
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layken001 said: Soverign said: Many people there about one or two firing drills in the entire 1 or 1.5 years of service. Most of that time is spent doing bullshit tasks like painting the grass green and being abused by senior recruits (dedovschina). People who served compare their mandatory service in the army to a prison term. As a result, mandatory service there is extremely unpopular and pretty much everyone who can do draft-dodging do so.It is pretty amusing that the KSA amassed more soldiers in Northern Thunder than Russia in Vostok -2018. 350,000 to 300,000. Before the US sent a carrier strike group and some B-52s Luckily I don't think Taiwan has that problem.  Niqqas start wearing masks like that an shit gonna get real for whatever poor dumb fuck they drafted to send into a meat grinder. Them Taiwanese niqqas channeling the spirit of Jason Voorhees on that island son. |
SoverignJun 4, 2019 2:19 PM
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| No Abrahams Lincoln was seen as a great priesident beause he pushed to end slavery |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
Soverign said: Lol. Unlike Lincoln, it is victory or death for Taiwan. They should be well aware what will happen should they fall to China. They will be imprisoned and cut up like cattle to be sold on the organ black market. You will find folks are much less likely to capitulate with only those options before them. How do you tell Taiwanese and Chinese people apart? They look the same to me. |
SpamuraiSensei said: Soverign said: Lol. Unlike Lincoln, it is victory or death for Taiwan. They should be well aware what will happen should they fall to China. They will be imprisoned and cut up like cattle to be sold on the organ black market. You will find folks are much less likely to capitulate with only those options before them. How do you tell Taiwanese and Chinese people apart? They look the same to me. It is actually, really, rather easy my good sir. One looks soft, like reeeaalllly soft, like this  and the other one looks like asian Jason Voorhees.   |
SoverignJun 5, 2019 1:51 PM
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Soverign said: I love how the Chinese like to make their things look cooler by adding girls with tons of makeup on everything even the military.It is actually, really, rather easy my good sir. One looks soft, like reeeaalllly soft, like this and the other one looks like asian Jason Voorhees. |
''Enemies' gifts are no gifts and do no good.'' |
Soverign said: There's a reason for that. See...the male Chinese population has small testicular veins because of too much masturbation to fight. No really.It is actually, really, rather easy my good sir. One looks soft, like reeeaalllly soft, like this |
layken001 said: Soverign said: There's a reason for that. See...the male Chinese population has small testicular veins because of too much masturbation to fight. No really.It is actually, really, rather easy my good sir. One looks soft, like reeeaalllly soft, like this But... how are they ever going to be a global military power if they keep aborting their soldiers? https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/11/151113-datapoints-china-one-child-policy/ shortly thereafter https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2018-05-21/china-to-eliminate-2-child-policy |
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Soverign said: layken001 said: There's a reason for that. See...the male Chinese population has small testicular veins because of too much masturbation to fight. No really. But... how are they ever going to be a global military power if they keep aborting their soldiers? https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/11/151113-datapoints-china-one-child-policy/ shortly thereafter https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2018-05-21/china-to-eliminate-2-child-policy Not a problem for them consider that Taiwan, Hong Kong and Japan has lower birth rate than China. http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/total-fertility-rate/ Even some European countries has lower birth rate than China despite not having one child policy. |
Papa_ScorchJun 7, 2019 8:04 PM
Gorochu said: Soverign said: But... how are they ever going to be a global military power if they keep aborting their soldiers? https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/11/151113-datapoints-china-one-child-policy/ shortly thereafter https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2018-05-21/china-to-eliminate-2-child-policy Not a problem for them consider that Taiwan, Hong Kong and Japan has lower birth rate than China. http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/total-fertility-rate/ Even some European countries has lower birth rate than China despite not having one child policy. But... it has been scientifically established previously that China has a aging population (urban birth rates are 1) that is heavily skewed towards males with underdeveloped testicles resulting in inferior esprit de corps. Leaving Chinese women to do all the fighting. |
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Soverign said: Gorochu said: Not a problem for them consider that Taiwan, Hong Kong and Japan has lower birth rate than China. http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/total-fertility-rate/ Even some European countries has lower birth rate than China despite not having one child policy. But... it has been scientifically established previously that China has a aging population (urban birth rates are 1) that is heavily skewed towards males with underdeveloped testicles resulting in inferior esprit de corps. Leaving Chinese women to do all the fighting. In that case, Japan,Taiwan, Germany, Spain, Greece, Portugal has even more underdeveloped testicles and inferior esprit de corps since their birth rate lower than China. Japanese and European men are too beta, which is why feminism came from west(not China) and European need to import black and Muslim immigrants to pump out more babies with white women. |
Papa_ScorchJun 7, 2019 8:38 PM
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