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"Its Not Safe To Walk Out At Night For Girls" in Anime

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May 28, 11:45 AM

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It could be a trope, but in my opinion it's mostly showing a part of their culture through anime. As an Asian, I often hear from my mother to never be alone at night as well. Maybe it's mostly the fear of crimes that often happen in night time that makes them consider being alone at night as something ominous but it does have a lot to do with cultural things and gender. I don't know much about Japan, but as far as I've observed, Asians really like to consider females as weak, delicate and dependent. So, whenever it happens in real life or even when I see such things in anime, the first thing that always comes to my mind is that they are indirectly or directly implying that "hey girl you're super delicate, you can't protect yourself nor your female friends can, but one single man is more powerful than a group :)"
 
May 28, 11:55 AM

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Chaet said:
It could be a trope, but in my opinion it's mostly showing a part of their culture through anime. As an Asian, I often hear from my mother to never be alone at night as well. Maybe it's mostly the fear of crimes that often happen in night time that makes them consider being alone at night as something ominous but it does have a lot to do with cultural things and gender. I don't know much about Japan, but as far as I've observed, Asians really like to consider females as weak, delicate and dependent. So, whenever it happens in real life or even when I see such things in anime, the first thing that always comes to my mind is that they are indirectly or directly implying that "hey girl you're super delicate, you can't protect yourself nor your female friends can, but one single man is more powerful than a group :)"
The other side is really interesting in that in Japan it's common to let 5 year olds just take the train alone to fetch something or go to school.

Which really goes to show how much of it is just culture and not a serious threat analysis. Letting a 5 year male take a train alone but be overprotective of an 18 year old female walking alone at night seems skewed to me.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 28, 12:13 PM

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I don’t think it’s just a Japanese thing. I don’t think it’s wise for anyone, male or female, to walk around alone at night (I’m not Japanese)
 
May 28, 12:52 PM

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Sphinxter said:
ixaa said:


Survivor's Bias. "This type of harassment" is only "rare" because most women know better than to walk home every night from work. In my case, I did it out of necessity, not because I wanted to. However, every single woman I know who regularly walks/jogs at night all have crazy stories to tell. It's quite dangerous for us.

Though, to be completely fair, I know guys who have their share of stories. There's lots of them, but as a specific example: Some nights, my ex-boyfriend would walk home from work at 12AM. We worked in the same area (but lived in opposite directions RIP) and he would walk home just as much as I did. Of course, he experienced things like people following him, homeless people asking him for drugs, etc. however, he received far less sexual harassment than I did, and this generally rings true for all other men I've talked to.
Because you're actually mortally afraid when the homeless ask you for money or offer you something. Has anything physical actually happened ever because a homeless person asked you for money?

Indeed — I've had a lot of those things you list happen to me but I don't consider it a threat and don't get afraid of it to require someone else to walk with me to avoid that and I've never been attacked by a homeless person that asked for money with some being clearly under the influence of some lesser-than-legal substance.

These things indeed happen all the time; they're just not an actual real threat and the only reason you get so afraid of it is because of gendered brainwashing.


I'm not going to lie and say homeless people are always a threat because 9/10 times they aren't. I give them money or food if I have it, then I walk away.However, that doesn't excuse the dozen or so times I have actually been physically confronted and assaulted by homeless people. There's lots of stories to share if you want to be here all day, but the most recent incident happened 2 weeks ago.

I was at a donut shop at 6AM, a homeless guy kneeling in front of the shop. I gave him my change when I left. It was no biggie, except when he started cussing at me to give him more money. I ended up running to my car, and he started pounding my windows, slamming the headlights and throwing his shit on it. I was pretty fucking afraid, and I didn't want to drive away because I thought I would run him over, so I sat in the car and called the police. He just kept screaming at me and fucking up my car for five or ten minutes before the police finally arrived.

If I hadn't gotten into my car, he probably would have grabbed me and pinned me down. If I had rolled down the windows, I would have gotten choked. If I hadn't called the police, then who knows how damn long I would have been in that parking lot?

I am NOT afraid of homeless people because of "gendered brainwashing," I am afraid of homeless people because they're more likely to do shit like this. I am afraid when they offer me drugs, not because it's illegal, but because I have a much higher chance of ending up in an unfortunate situation, e.g raped, kidnapped, lost, etc. if I am on drugs. I am not automatically afraid of men or women walking at night, but statistically you're more likely to be stalked/kidnapped/raped when walking alone at night than when walking alone in the morning.
a-wise-man said:
It doesn't matter how many bishounens are in an anime if the plot is shit.
 
May 28, 3:58 PM

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I would argue it's risky for any anime character to walk out at night unless they're in a slice of life.
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May 28, 6:41 PM

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Last time I checked, this is worldwide thing. It’s basically to defend them from a potential sexual assault, rape etc, that would be more likely to happen when they’re alone I guess. Tbh, I tend to see it as more of a gentleman move than anything.
 
May 29, 9:36 AM
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Pullman said:
Idk, I think it's weird when it's the guy just forcing his 'protection' on the girl without even asking. Just feels like a condescending type of sexism paired with white knight fantasies and tricking the girl to be alone with him. And who knows, maybe he's the creep that she needs protection from. If I was a girl I would not go home alone with guys who aggressively want to go home with me alone even when I never asked for it, unless I already know them very well, like family or an actual boyfriend.

There's nothing wrong with a girl not feeling safe along at night, plenty of anecdotes from literally any female justify that, and asking for an escort home is not an issue either, but it should be the girl who's asking, not the guy just assuming and forcing his 'help' on her even when there is no sign that she is worried. At least that's how I feel, I always cringe a little when the guys in anime just do it without even asking, without caring how the girl feels. I'd hate that being done to me, the default assumption being that I need a babysitter.


On a sidenote I do find it a bit amusing how scared some people in this thread seem to be of homeless people and junkies. I constantly get asked for money or drugs when I'm on the street, it doesn't even have to be night for that. The worst thing that ever happened was being forced to buy some shitty drugs at knifepoint basically, and that was pretty much a rarity. Usually I just see these encounters as annoying, but not scary. They're just fucked up people, most of them so fucked up that anyone could probably outrun them quite easily if it came to that. Alcoholics, drug addicts, hustlers. They're more pitiful than scary tbh.


Well this may not be that related to the thread but many anime certainly have a gender tinge to them. I too feel agitated when guys in anime say " you shouldn't do this because you're a girl " and what is more agitating is when the girl falls for such comments.

As far as the OP is concerned , being alone at night is not safe for either male or female. While females are more prone to sexual assaults , men falling victim to violence is more common. So it is good to have a company of someone you can trust instead of being by yourself. According to a particular statistics the difference between how men and women feel about 'walking alone at night' isn't too much related to the crime rates. Here's the link.:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-19/chart-of-the-day-do-you-feel-safe-walking-alone-at-night/9880408
 
May 29, 10:01 AM

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Unfortanetly it same for the real girls to..I wish it wasnt .....
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May 29, 12:31 PM

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crimes tend to happen at night
woman are often seen as more vulnerable than men
there is safety in numbers
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May 29, 12:49 PM

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Stlastd said:
Pullman said:
Idk, I think it's weird when it's the guy just forcing his 'protection' on the girl without even asking. Just feels like a condescending type of sexism paired with white knight fantasies and tricking the girl to be alone with him. And who knows, maybe he's the creep that she needs protection from. If I was a girl I would not go home alone with guys who aggressively want to go home with me alone even when I never asked for it, unless I already know them very well, like family or an actual boyfriend.

There's nothing wrong with a girl not feeling safe along at night, plenty of anecdotes from literally any female justify that, and asking for an escort home is not an issue either, but it should be the girl who's asking, not the guy just assuming and forcing his 'help' on her even when there is no sign that she is worried. At least that's how I feel, I always cringe a little when the guys in anime just do it without even asking, without caring how the girl feels. I'd hate that being done to me, the default assumption being that I need a babysitter.


On a sidenote I do find it a bit amusing how scared some people in this thread seem to be of homeless people and junkies. I constantly get asked for money or drugs when I'm on the street, it doesn't even have to be night for that. The worst thing that ever happened was being forced to buy some shitty drugs at knifepoint basically, and that was pretty much a rarity. Usually I just see these encounters as annoying, but not scary. They're just fucked up people, most of them so fucked up that anyone could probably outrun them quite easily if it came to that. Alcoholics, drug addicts, hustlers. They're more pitiful than scary tbh.


Well this may not be that related to the thread but many anime certainly have a gender tinge to them. I too feel agitated when guys in anime say " you shouldn't do this because you're a girl " and what is more agitating is when the girl falls for such comments.
Agreed — some of these gender roles can be very off-putting from a Western European perspective. It's not just gender but also the prominent social status and age thing. How much social class in general seems to matter. And of course the unironically gendered school uniforms; that would absolutely never not be struck down by courts here if schools gave their students gendered uniforms.

As far as the OP is concerned , being alone at night is not safe for either male or female.
Yes it is — especially in Japan where violent crime rates are extremely low but for instance traffic death rates are fairly high in comparison.

One has a considerably higher chance to just get scooped by a car in broad daylight and die than facing any malicious crime at night.

While females are more prone to sexual assaults , men falling victim to violence is more common. So it is good to have a company of someone you can trust instead of being by yourself. According to a particular statistics the difference between how men and women feel about 'walking alone at night' isn't too much related to the crime rates. Here's the link.:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-19/chart-of-the-day-do-you-feel-safe-walking-alone-at-night/9880408
No, it's just paranoia — it's the quintessential human flaw to constantly focus on that which is barely a threat and disregard the actual threats.

"murder" opposed to "traffic death" arouses an emotional response thereby inciting greater fear — notwithstanding that of course a dead man cares not whether he were hit by a car or a bullet.

The other force at work is that the news primarily focuses on things that are rare rather than the uneventful so the news tends to broadcast murder but not traffic deaths leading to the paradoxical situation that the news reader often gains the impression that the unlikely is like because the news does not report the likely as it after all is likely and unremarkable.
Modified by Sphinxter, May 29, 2:21 PM

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 29, 1:03 PM

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It's just a gesture of good faith to show that the guy cares about the girl and is watching out for her safety & well being.
 
May 29, 1:31 PM

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Sphinxter said:

"murder" opposed to "traffic death" arouses an emotional response so people are more afraid of it notwithstanding that of course a dead man cares not whether he were hit by a car or a bullet.


You know, it might be more probable overall for the average citizen to get hit by a car than die by being bitten by a tiger shark, but it might still be worth looking into local shark behavior rather than global traffic statistics if you're going to be diving in such area.
 
May 29, 1:58 PM

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mecharobot said:
Sphinxter said:

"murder" opposed to "traffic death" arouses an emotional response so people are more afraid of it notwithstanding that of course a dead man cares not whether he were hit by a car or a bullet.


You know, it might be more probable overall for the average citizen to get hit by a car than die by being bitten by a tiger shark, but it might still be worth looking into local shark behavior rather than global traffic statistics if you're going to be diving in such area.
Quite, but the area here is the same.

"walking alone at night" is typically done in the area where both becoming the victim of violence by a stranger and an incidental car death might happen.

Naturally few are hit by a car go they hiking in the woods.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 29, 2:11 PM

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If there was a country where walking alone at night is safe i'd move there asap.

 
May 29, 2:19 PM

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Medialuna said:
If there was a country where walking alone at night is safe i'd move there asap.
In almost every country it's safer than crossing a street in broad daylight — it's paranoia and sensationalism.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 29, 2:29 PM

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I'd say its just a cultural phenomenon. I mean, movies and TV always exaggerate the risks of life. I've seen so many movies and TV shows for example where the "hero" character becomes a hero because he is witnessing a mugging or a woman being sexually assaulted out on the street as if witnessing random crimes is some sort of regular occurrence in people's lives. I found it especially odd in Death Note given Japan's extraordinarily low crime rate.

So yeah, I agree that its about gender roles and the male character just wants a chance to be alone with the girl. I accept that premise, and disagree with the idea that there's anything wrong with it even if the male protection and chivalry is completely unnecessary. Guys like to feel protective over girls and its a way to show the girl that he's polite and a gentleman as well as just being a convenient excuse to be together. Not every cultural norm needs to have an important function. Guys don't open doors for girls because they believe girls are incapable of opening a door themselves, they do it to be polite.

Formal gender roles are good at facilitating romantic relationships in a way that doesn't put girls in a dangerous situation and allows men to feel protective, I think since we've started trying to abolish them, gender relations between men and women have deteriorated because the basic respect that you're supposed to have for the opposite sex is gone now.
 
May 29, 2:34 PM

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Ryuk9428 said:
Formal gender roles are good at facilitating romantic relationships in a way that doesn't put girls in a dangerous situation and allows men to feel protective, I think since we've started trying to abolish them, gender relations between men and women have deteriorated because the basic respect that you're supposed to have for the opposite sex is gone now.
Yes I know — males had so much respect for females 60 years back when the latter's biggest achievement was a well cooked meal opposed to being the CEO of a multinational company.

Thinking another man requires your protection is the antithesis of "respect"; it's patronizing however much that man has wilfully deluded himself into thinking he requires it over some gender brainwashing.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 29, 2:56 PM

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Sphinxter said:
Ryuk9428 said:
Formal gender roles are good at facilitating romantic relationships in a way that doesn't put girls in a dangerous situation and allows men to feel protective, I think since we've started trying to abolish them, gender relations between men and women have deteriorated because the basic respect that you're supposed to have for the opposite sex is gone now.
Yes I know — males had so much respect for females 60 years back when the latter's biggest achievement was a well cooked meal opposed to being the CEO of a multinational company.

Thinking another man requires your protection is the antithesis of "respect"; it's patronizing however much that man has wilfully deluded himself into thinking he requires it over some gender brainwashing.


Actually, they did.

Not if you go really far in the past, but men in the relatively recent past were a lot more respectful towards girls than men are today.

There's actually a lot of misogyny today that wasn't present in the relatively recent past. You've got entire movements and ideologies of men now where the basis of their ideology is pretty much that they don't like women. A lot of men who aren't a part of these "movements" still seem to treat girls like trash. Sexual assault particularly has become a huge issue in the past 50 years of loosening our codes of chivalry.

I'm saying the reason for this is because the lack of chivalry has eroded a lot of the basic respect that men used to have for girls just for being female. I'd say this basic respect has been eroded to a certain extent among almost all Western men but its particularly bad in certain segments of them. In contrast, Japan doesn't have any movements or large groups of men that have anywhere near the level of hatred towards women that certain groups of Western men have.
 
May 29, 3:09 PM

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Ryuk9428 said:
Sphinxter said:
Yes I know — males had so much respect for females 60 years back when the latter's biggest achievement was a well cooked meal opposed to being the CEO of a multinational company.

Thinking another man requires your protection is the antithesis of "respect"; it's patronizing however much that man has wilfully deluded himself into thinking he requires it over some gender brainwashing.


Actually, they did.

Not if you go really far in the past, but men in the relatively recent past were a lot more respectful towards girls than men are today.

There's actually a lot of misogyny today that wasn't present in the relatively recent past. You've got entire movements and ideologies of men now where the basis of their ideology is pretty much that they don't like women. A lot of men who aren't a part of these "movements" still seem to treat girls like trash. Sexual assault particularly has become a huge issue in the past 50 years of loosening our codes of chivalry.

I'm saying the reason for this is because the lack of chivalry has eroded a lot of the basic respect that men used to have for girls just for being female. I'd say this basic respect has been eroded to a certain extent among almost all Western men but its particularly bad in certain segments of them. In contrast, Japan doesn't have any movements or large groups of men that have anywhere near the level of hatred towards women that certain groups of Western men have.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States#Statistics_and_data

And this is not even considering the fact that rape is surely more often reported nowadays and that for large parts of that grap marital rape did not count as rape legally which is one of the most common forms of rape.

It's certainly come to my attention how often there is an overromantic view of "the past". If you honestly think that sexual assault and rape is increasing rather than decreasing in almost every developed nation then you simply have never bothered to look up statistics on the matter and simply base your conclusion on some weird gut feeling because all statistics tell the same.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 29, 3:22 PM

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Sphinxter said:
Ryuk9428 said:


Actually, they did.

Not if you go really far in the past, but men in the relatively recent past were a lot more respectful towards girls than men are today.

There's actually a lot of misogyny today that wasn't present in the relatively recent past. You've got entire movements and ideologies of men now where the basis of their ideology is pretty much that they don't like women. A lot of men who aren't a part of these "movements" still seem to treat girls like trash. Sexual assault particularly has become a huge issue in the past 50 years of loosening our codes of chivalry.

I'm saying the reason for this is because the lack of chivalry has eroded a lot of the basic respect that men used to have for girls just for being female. I'd say this basic respect has been eroded to a certain extent among almost all Western men but its particularly bad in certain segments of them. In contrast, Japan doesn't have any movements or large groups of men that have anywhere near the level of hatred towards women that certain groups of Western men have.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States#Statistics_and_data

And this is not even considering the fact that rape is surely more often reported nowadays and that for large parts of that grap marital rape did not count as rape legally which is one of the most common forms of rape.

It's certainly come to my attention how often there is an overromantic view of "the past". If you honestly think that sexual assault and rape is increasing rather than decreasing in almost every developed nation then you simply have never bothered to look up statistics on the matter and simply base your conclusion on some weird gut feeling because all statistics tell the same.


Yeah because the data is going back to the 1970s. The 1970s and 1980s were when people were trying the hardest to break down existing gender roles. Especially in the late 70s, early 80s period when it peaked. People's parents might've still been conservative but the young people in the 1970s were pushing against gender roles pretty damn hard.

I'd also argue that sexual assault is caused by toxic masculinity subcultures, which really only exist because of the breakdown of previous forms of masculine identity. The previous form of masculinity, the breadwinner, has been discredited by feminism as being a "derogatory" form of masculinity. But the breadwinner role de-valued violent forms of masculinity and instead placed value on gentleness, providing for, and protecting females. In order to replace this lost sense of masculine identity, many men have adopted this "toxic masculinity" instead where they are having what pretty much amounts to "neo-primitive" forms of masculinity where rough, aggressive behaviors are held up as the highest form of "masculinity" when the breadwinner role is no longer available to men.
 
May 29, 3:28 PM
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Well, for the storytelling side, maybe it just what they did to make the heroine or the girl and the boy can just be together. However, in real life, of course it can be dangerous too for girl to walk alone.

I don't really know about Japan myself, but I do know a little thing about it (I got the information from the Japanese person itself, sometimes I read in forum or in their history, but I'm sorry, I don't really remember the source, so I can't give an actual fact). Otaku (it might be Idol otaku or hardcore otaku that doesn't even have life) and pervert person in Japan are real, dude. You never guess there is someone in your class or someone that you didn't even know stalk you and just follow you. Even they are not afraid to rape you. Besides disgusting otakus, Japan has the history about a murderer that not just rape people, but they also torture you and kill you (maybe this is why BDSM is a thingin Japan). It is actually dangerous for a man too, because there is a guy that I ever read in some article, forum and there is actually a video about him and his action in general, that he loves to cut a man's d*ck and eat them.

Well, yes, maybe that is a rare case now a days, because "girl is dangerous walking alone at night" is not implemented in anime alone, but in real life as well.
 
May 29, 4:40 PM

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mohrip said:
Well, for the storytelling side, maybe it just what they did to make the heroine or the girl and the boy can just be together. However, in real life, of course it can be dangerous too for girl to walk alone.

I don't really know about Japan myself, but I do know a little thing about it (I got the information from the Japanese person itself, sometimes I read in forum or in their history, but I'm sorry, I don't really remember the source, so I can't give an actual fact). Otaku (it might be Idol otaku or hardcore otaku that doesn't even have life) and pervert person in Japan are real, dude. You never guess there is someone in your class or someone that you didn't even know stalk you and just follow you. Even they are not afraid to rape you. Besides disgusting otakus, Japan has the history about a murderer that not just rape people, but they also torture you and kill you (maybe this is why BDSM is a thingin Japan). It is actually dangerous for a man too, because there is a guy that I ever read in some article, forum and there is actually a video about him and his action in general, that he loves to cut a man's d*ck and eat them.

Well, yes, maybe that is a rare case now a days, because "girl is dangerous walking alone at night" is not implemented in anime alone, but in real life as well.


Where is the data that shows this is actually a thing more so than in other countries though? All the data shows the opposite that rape is extremely low in Japan in comparison to other countries. And you can't just explain it away by saying that its because the women don't report it because the US rate of rape is 33 times higher than Japan's and Japan is extremely low in pretty much all crimes and that's despite all the people talking about how American women don't report rape.

I'm sorry but "they're not reporting it" doesn't explain a 33 multiplication difference. It could explain why its 50% higher in one country, or maybe even twice as high. It does not explain why America and European countries have several dozen times more sexual assaults than Japan does.

As far as homicides go, the entire country of Japan had as many homicides as Detroit does on a yearly basis.
 
May 29, 4:53 PM

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Ryuk9428 said:
mohrip said:
Well, for the storytelling side, maybe it just what they did to make the heroine or the girl and the boy can just be together. However, in real life, of course it can be dangerous too for girl to walk alone.

I don't really know about Japan myself, but I do know a little thing about it (I got the information from the Japanese person itself, sometimes I read in forum or in their history, but I'm sorry, I don't really remember the source, so I can't give an actual fact). Otaku (it might be Idol otaku or hardcore otaku that doesn't even have life) and pervert person in Japan are real, dude. You never guess there is someone in your class or someone that you didn't even know stalk you and just follow you. Even they are not afraid to rape you. Besides disgusting otakus, Japan has the history about a murderer that not just rape people, but they also torture you and kill you (maybe this is why BDSM is a thingin Japan). It is actually dangerous for a man too, because there is a guy that I ever read in some article, forum and there is actually a video about him and his action in general, that he loves to cut a man's d*ck and eat them.

Well, yes, maybe that is a rare case now a days, because "girl is dangerous walking alone at night" is not implemented in anime alone, but in real life as well.


Where is the data that shows this is actually a thing more so than in other countries though? All the data shows the opposite that rape is extremely low in Japan in comparison to other countries. And you can't just explain it away by saying that its because the women don't report it because the US rate of rape is 33 times higher than Japan's and Japan is extremely low in pretty much all crimes and that's despite all the people talking about how American women don't report rape.

I'm sorry but "they're not reporting it" doesn't explain a 33 multiplication difference. It could explain why its 50% higher in one country, or maybe even twice as high. It does not explain why America and European countries have several dozen times more sexual assaults than Japan does.

As far as homicides go, the entire country of Japan had as many homicides as Detroit does on a yearly basis.


Rape does happen more in japan then you think. Japan is a very male dominated society where most rapes and assaults go unreported. Its the reason why they have different train cars for men and females, because female groping was a constant problem in the subways.
 
May 29, 5:03 PM

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Nightmare21st said:
Ryuk9428 said:


Where is the data that shows this is actually a thing more so than in other countries though? All the data shows the opposite that rape is extremely low in Japan in comparison to other countries. And you can't just explain it away by saying that its because the women don't report it because the US rate of rape is 33 times higher than Japan's and Japan is extremely low in pretty much all crimes and that's despite all the people talking about how American women don't report rape.

I'm sorry but "they're not reporting it" doesn't explain a 33 multiplication difference. It could explain why its 50% higher in one country, or maybe even twice as high. It does not explain why America and European countries have several dozen times more sexual assaults than Japan does.

As far as homicides go, the entire country of Japan had as many homicides as Detroit does on a yearly basis.


Rape does happen more in japan then you think. Japan is a very male dominated society where most rapes and assaults go unreported. Its the reason why they have different train cars for men and females, because female groping was a constant problem in the subways.


I'm saying there's such an enormous gap in statistics that the common "they don't report it" explanation, is invalid. If I told you that two countries have 100 million people living in it, and one country had 10,000 rapes per year while the other country had 330,000. I find it really difficult to believe any explanation that essentially just says 320,000 additional rapes were not reported.

To the extent that argument works, you might be able to say that one country actually had 15,000, not 10,000, maybe even 20,000 instead.

That wouldn't even come close to explaining the enormous statistical gap. And maybe the lack of feminism in Japan is why they don't have as many sexual assaults. As high as America's rape rate looks in comparison to Japan's. Ultra feminist Sweden is even worse with 60 times the rate of sexual assaults in comparison to Japan.
 
May 29, 5:32 PM

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Nightmare21st said:
Ryuk9428 said:


Where is the data that shows this is actually a thing more so than in other countries though? All the data shows the opposite that rape is extremely low in Japan in comparison to other countries. And you can't just explain it away by saying that its because the women don't report it because the US rate of rape is 33 times higher than Japan's and Japan is extremely low in pretty much all crimes and that's despite all the people talking about how American women don't report rape.

I'm sorry but "they're not reporting it" doesn't explain a 33 multiplication difference. It could explain why its 50% higher in one country, or maybe even twice as high. It does not explain why America and European countries have several dozen times more sexual assaults than Japan does.

As far as homicides go, the entire country of Japan had as many homicides as Detroit does on a yearly basis.


Rape does happen more in japan then you think. Japan is a very male dominated society where most rapes and assaults go unreported. Its the reason why they have different train cars for men and females, because female groping was a constant problem in the subways.
It might happen more than he thinks but but the different train car artefact might as well just be explained by that they just like to segregate the sexes more for their own sake.

The "forbidden fruit effect" is also a potent one in this case; one often hears the argument that such segregation is necessary to stop sexual harassment but the sexual harassment tends to go down when the segregation is ended, not up:

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-03-26/norways-military-cut-down-sexual-harassment-most-remarkable-way

The "forbidden fruit effect" in general is a potent one; it's also frequently observed with drug laws that legalization leads to lower consumption rates, not higher ones.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 29, 5:41 PM

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Ryuk9428 said:
And maybe the lack of feminism in Japan is why they don't have as many sexual assaults. As high as America's rape rate looks in comparison to Japan's. Ultra feminist Sweden is even worse with 60 times the rate of sexual assaults in comparison to Japan.

C'mon, dude, you're implying feminism elevates the number of rapes? That's quite a leap of logic you're taking there. Do you have any kind of source to back that up or are you just basing this upon your views on feminism? Correlation does not equal causation. I can correlate any two data with each other and say one causes the other, but it doesn't make it right. That's what happens with anti-vaxxers claiming vaccines cause autism.

I'd argue the higher "number of rapes" in more gender progressive countries is due to higher courage and incentive to come forward and report sexual crimes, since women in those countries are more aware of their rights, less dependant of men and more outspoken of their experiences. Your claim that feminism causes rape to me is insane, specially because it doesn't explain rapes on males, nor child abuse, and it disregards that rape has always been an issue throughout history.
 
May 29, 5:55 PM

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Aastra343 said:
Ryuk9428 said:
And maybe the lack of feminism in Japan is why they don't have as many sexual assaults. As high as America's rape rate looks in comparison to Japan's. Ultra feminist Sweden is even worse with 60 times the rate of sexual assaults in comparison to Japan.

C'mon, dude, you're implying feminism elevates the number of rapes? That's quite a leap of logic you're taking there. Do you have any kind of source to back that up or are you just basing this upon your views on feminism? Correlation does not equal causation. I can correlate any two data with each other and say one causes the other, but it doesn't make it right. That's what happens with anti-vaxxers claiming vaccines cause autism.

I'd argue the higher "number of rapes" in more gender progressive countries is due to higher courage and incentive to come forward and report sexual crimes, since women in those countries are more aware of their rights, less dependant of men and more outspoken of their experiences. Your claim that feminism causes rape to me is insane, specially because it doesn't explain rapes on males, nor child abuse, and it disregards that rape has always been an issue throughout history.


Feminism is not the only thing that causes rape to happen. The world is more complex than that, but it can indirectly cause it. Its not because feminists are running around raping people its because feminism invalidated the breadwinner role for men so men came up with a different way to feel masculine, which lead to, lo and behold, toxic masculinity. A brand of masculinity that considers it "manly" to be violent, and sexually aggressive towards women. If you notice in the US, the subcultures where the breadwinner role has been invalidated the most have the highest levels of toxic masculinity, and the communities where some elements of the breadwinner role for men remain, toxic masculinity is at its lowest.

Breadwinner type males have a tendency towards white knighting though because their personality is to protect and provide for women. So many of them, not being aware of the consequences of their actions, support feminist ideas, because they think it will protect women. But it doesn't, because feminist ideas don't work once you actually try to put them into action.
 
May 29, 5:58 PM

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Aastra343 said:
Ryuk9428 said:
And maybe the lack of feminism in Japan is why they don't have as many sexual assaults. As high as America's rape rate looks in comparison to Japan's. Ultra feminist Sweden is even worse with 60 times the rate of sexual assaults in comparison to Japan.

C'mon, dude, you're implying feminism elevates the number of rapes? That's quite a leap of logic you're taking there. Do you have any kind of source to back that up or are you just basing this upon your views on feminism? Correlation does not equal causation. I can correlate any two data with each other and say one causes the other, but it doesn't make it right. That's what happens with anti-vaxxers claiming vaccines cause autism.

I'd argue the higher "number of rapes" in more gender progressive countries is due to higher courage and incentive to come forward and report sexual crimes, since women in those countries are more aware of their rights, less dependant of men and more outspoken of their experiences. Your claim that feminism causes rape to me is insane, specially because it doesn't explain rapes on males, nor child abuse, and it disregards that rape has always been an issue throughout history.
There isn't necessarily "more rape" in progressive countries; there is — surprise surprise — in general "more rape" in countries with more violent crime.

Japan has always been a country with extremely low violent crime numbers. The US one with very high numbers.

The Netherlands also has very low numbers compared to the US despite being a far more gender equal culture; it's almost like crime numbers in general are lower in the Netherlands than the US.

If anything I would say that the increase of overall crime numbers no doubt finds a lot of its cause in the amount of poverty in a nation. The US is well known for treating its poor dismally.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 29, 6:14 PM

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Ryuk9428 said:
Aastra343 said:

C'mon, dude, you're implying feminism elevates the number of rapes? That's quite a leap of logic you're taking there. Do you have any kind of source to back that up or are you just basing this upon your views on feminism? Correlation does not equal causation. I can correlate any two data with each other and say one causes the other, but it doesn't make it right. That's what happens with anti-vaxxers claiming vaccines cause autism.

I'd argue the higher "number of rapes" in more gender progressive countries is due to higher courage and incentive to come forward and report sexual crimes, since women in those countries are more aware of their rights, less dependant of men and more outspoken of their experiences. Your claim that feminism causes rape to me is insane, specially because it doesn't explain rapes on males, nor child abuse, and it disregards that rape has always been an issue throughout history.


Feminism is not the only thing that causes rape to happen. The world is more complex than that, but it can indirectly cause it. Its not because feminists are running around raping people its because feminism invalidated the breadwinner role for men so men came up with a different way to feel masculine, which lead to, lo and behold, toxic masculinity. A brand of masculinity that considers it "manly" to be violent, and sexually aggressive towards women. If you notice in the US, the subcultures where the breadwinner role has been invalidated the most have the highest levels of toxic masculinity, and the communities where some elements of the breadwinner role for men remain, toxic masculinity is at its lowest.

Breadwinner type males have a tendency towards white knighting though because their personality is to protect and provide for women. So many of them, not being aware of the consequences of their actions, support feminist ideas, because they think it will protect women. But it doesn't, because feminist ideas don't work once you actually try to put them into action.

Rape is, in most cases, a power trip fantasy. It's about exerting control, not about "feeling masculine" or even sexual gratification in the vulgar sense. When men lost control they had for millennia over women, yes, it may have led some of them to turn to rape, not because they don't feel "manly enough" and violence is the answer, but because sexual violence is based upon taking control out of the hands of the victim into the hands of the perpretator. It's a way to take back the control previously lost.

The notion that "being manly" is threatened because feminism makes women independent is itself baffling. Why women being more independent threatens men? Is the value of a man solely based on providing for a woman? If a woman provides for herself, her husband is emasculated?

But I guess this convo is useless. You already decided for yourself that feminism is the devil reincarnate. It won't be I, a soyboy breadwinner whiteknight orbiter, on an anime forum that will change your mind. Please, go on fighting against evil for the sake of us, whiteknights.

Ps: If it were true that invalidating a man's breadwinner role leads men to more violent acts, then the increase of women in the Japanese workforce should mean that Japan now has higher criminal rates for sex crimes, but at the same time, you're saying they don't and under reporting is not a problem, so...
Modified by Aastra343, May 29, 6:31 PM
 
May 29, 6:15 PM

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Aastra343 said:
Ryuk9428 said:
And maybe the lack of feminism in Japan is why they don't have as many sexual assaults. As high as America's rape rate looks in comparison to Japan's. Ultra feminist Sweden is even worse with 60 times the rate of sexual assaults in comparison to Japan.

C'mon, dude, you're implying feminism elevates the number of rapes? That's quite a leap of logic you're taking there. Do you have any kind of source to back that up or are you just basing this upon your views on feminism? Correlation does not equal causation. I can correlate any two data with each other and say one causes the other, but it doesn't make it right. That's what happens with anti-vaxxers claiming vaccines cause autism.

I'd argue the higher "number of rapes" in more gender progressive countries is due to higher courage and incentive to come forward and report sexual crimes, since women in those countries are more aware of their rights, less dependant of men and more outspoken of their experiences. Your claim that feminism causes rape to me is insane, specially because it doesn't explain rapes on males, nor child abuse, and it disregards that rape has always been an issue throughout history.


As far as rape statistics go...

If Japan actually had a serious problem with unreported rapes, then it would be more well known. It would be like India, Egypt, or Pakistan where people are actually very aware of the fact that there's a huge amount of rape that isn't getting reported.

Course in Egypt, they actually do report a much higher rate of sexual assault than Japan does and Egypt has much stronger notions of sexual purity than Japan does. But that's probably because Egypt has a massive sexual assault problem.

I also agree that looking at other violent crimes is indicative of whether there's something fishy about the data or not. Japan has a very low rate of crime in every category, homicide, rape, assault, kidnappings, theft, robbery. Everything. Whereas Pakistan, has a relatively high rate of homicide (8.0 per 100,000 compared to 0.25 in Japan, 0.9 in the Netherlands and 5.1 in the US) yet reports a tiny rape rate despite it being well known that sexual violence is a huge problem in Pakistan, in this case, its obvious something doesn't add up.
 
May 29, 6:41 PM

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Aastra343 said:
Ryuk9428 said:


Feminism is not the only thing that causes rape to happen. The world is more complex than that, but it can indirectly cause it. Its not because feminists are running around raping people its because feminism invalidated the breadwinner role for men so men came up with a different way to feel masculine, which lead to, lo and behold, toxic masculinity. A brand of masculinity that considers it "manly" to be violent, and sexually aggressive towards women. If you notice in the US, the subcultures where the breadwinner role has been invalidated the most have the highest levels of toxic masculinity, and the communities where some elements of the breadwinner role for men remain, toxic masculinity is at its lowest.

Breadwinner type males have a tendency towards white knighting though because their personality is to protect and provide for women. So many of them, not being aware of the consequences of their actions, support feminist ideas, because they think it will protect women. But it doesn't, because feminist ideas don't work once you actually try to put them into action.

Rape is, in most cases, a power trip fantasy. It's about exerting control, not about "feeling masculine" or even sexual gratification in the vulgar sense. When men lost control they had for millennia over women, yes, it may have led some of them to turn to rape, not because they don't feel "manly enough" and violence is the answer, but because sexual violence is based upon taking control out of the hands of the victim into the hands of the perpretator. It's a way to take back the control previously lost.

The notion that "being manly" is threatened because feminism makes women independent is itself baffling. Why women being more independent threatens men? Is the value of a man solely based on providing for a woman? If a woman provides for herself, her husband is emasculated?

But I guess this convo is useless. You already decided for yourself that feminism is the devil reincarnate. It won't be I, a soyboy breadwinner whiteknight orbiter, on an anime forum that will change your mind. Please, go on fighting against evil for the sake of us, whiteknights.


Toxic masculinity causes sexual assault by encouraging aggressive behavior and then basically saying that its not really sexual assault because women like men who behave that way. The entire basis of it is that the other men don't respect you because you were able to find a nice woman who wants to raise your kids, instead, your value is given to you based on how many women want your dick. Even more value is given to you if you don't want to be married at all because they'll assume so many women want your dick that you couldn't possibly want to settle down with one girl. I've been around enough of these guys that I've seen how they are. They talk about how women want to be sexually dominated, that men who aren't sexually aggressive towards them are "pussies" and that men should ignore women's signals because women lie about whether they want it or not or that they will initially say no but cave in to a masculine man. You need to think about this on a deeper level than a simple "stranger leaps out of the bushes and forces himself on a woman" image.

At clubs and parties, if you've ever been to them, you'll notice lots of guys walking up behind girls and grinding on them without asking, or grabbing them, and doing various stuff like that. This is a lower level version of what I'm talking about but you literally see it all the time at these places.

Women aren't really all that visually stimulated by men's bodies unless they are in a very elite category of physical attractiveness. Women are more turned on by behavior. Being allowed to have the breadwinner role gives you a chance to be attractive to women through your behavior because she'll be attracted to the idea that you can provide for her as well as being a good father to your future kids. You can be a "soyboy," as you call yourself, and still be attractive to her this way.

The "white knight" personality isn't necessarily a bad thing. Having a white knight personality can be a very positive thing, its just that those tendencies are being misdirected in the case of men supporting feminist ideas that don't work.
Modified by Ryuk9428, May 29, 6:44 PM
 
May 29, 6:48 PM

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Even i (21 male) am friggin terrified of walking alone at night or at the morning.

Sure walking in the center and enjoying the scenery is fine but when the streets are dead empty i cannot help but always look to the nearest police officer (there is one every 2-3 blocks) to know that im safe.


Hell ill gladly accept if anyone wants to walk with me at late night.
Y'all discussing the morality of representing these things in anime (or saying its sexist) must live on friggin heaven.

Dimethylanime said:
I don’t think it’s just a Japanese thing. I don’t think it’s wise for anyone, male or female, to walk around alone at night (I’m not Japanese)


Thank god, someone using real life common sense.
Modified by CordobezEverdeen, May 29, 6:51 PM
I never lie on the internet. What's the point of it...
the chinese noodles ad is an anime and avatar isn't!
triggered

Pingu in the City in the rank 100. I hate this site.
 
May 29, 8:34 PM

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CordobezEverdeen said:
Even i (21 male) am friggin terrified of walking alone at night or at the morning.

Sure walking in the center and enjoying the scenery is fine but when the streets are dead empty i cannot help but always look to the nearest police officer (there is one every 2-3 blocks) to know that im safe.


Hell ill gladly accept if anyone wants to walk with me at late night.
Y'all discussing the morality of representing these things in anime (or saying its sexist) must live on friggin heaven.

Dimethylanime said:
I don’t think it’s just a Japanese thing. I don’t think it’s wise for anyone, male or female, to walk around alone at night (I’m not Japanese)


Thank god, someone using real life common sense.


I agree with what your saying, its not sexist its based on common sense.
P.S love your forum pic its the goat
 
May 29, 8:42 PM

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Are you being serious? Night is always more dangerous than day, and just the fact of having more people is more safe (for both genders)... also, there is the fact of men being a lot stronger than women... that is why femicide is a thing...

Btw, I just talking about physical strength.
 
May 29, 9:59 PM

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I'm a girl and I think this is just a common thing girls are told regardless of the country. Especially if you live in a city or higher populated area. It's kinda fucked up but rape and sexual assault is just something you kind of have to be extra wary about as a woman. I'm going off to college soon and both of my grandmas gave me similar pieces of advice about sticking with friends when going out and the whole not leaving your drinks unattended thing. Though that is also good advice for men.
 
May 30, 2:34 AM

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Being both a woman and having lived in Japan for a year, I honestly don't get what the fuss is about. I walked around at night and found nothing even remotely threatening. Even the single time when someone actually talked to me (he asked if I wanted to go for a drink) he was both polite and left when I said no. And this was in Shibuya which is known for its night life. So yeah, I think warning about it has more to do with Japan's rather conservative culture than actual danger. If you look at the statistics any kind of violent crime is extremely rare.

I frankly think it's pointless to say it's dangerous because you aren't as strong as men... It's the society's job to ensure the streets are safe and if they can't do that it's a problem with them. I do realize that the society I live in is extremely safe, but I can't imagine wanting to live somewhere that wasn't. I know I'm privileged in being able to choose where I live, but as long as I have that right I will exert it.

So yeah, seeing people say that in anime triggers me pretty hard, knowing that Japan is as safe as it is.
My condolences to KyoAni #PrayForKyoani
 
May 30, 2:35 AM

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Pullman said:
I constantly get asked for money or drugs when I'm on the street, it doesn't even have to be night for that. The worst thing that ever happened was being forced to buy some shitty drugs at knifepoint basically
Where were you from? So I avoid crossing your neighborhood lol
 
May 30, 6:27 AM
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Unowen said:
Pullman said:
I constantly get asked for money or drugs when I'm on the street, it doesn't even have to be night for that. The worst thing that ever happened was being forced to buy some shitty drugs at knifepoint basically
Where were you from? So I avoid crossing your neighborhood lol


I'm from the city with the highest living quality worldwide :>

Listen, everybody wants change, don't nobody want to change though
don't nobody want to pray, till they got something to pray for
now everybody's gonna die, but don't everybody live though
 
May 30, 12:47 PM
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Women are more likely to get attacked and/or sexually harassed at night than men.

Anyways, I hate going out after sunset.
 
May 30, 1:03 PM

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NthDegree said:
Being both a woman and having lived in Japan for a year, I honestly don't get what the fuss is about. I walked around at night and found nothing even remotely threatening. Even the single time when someone actually talked to me (he asked if I wanted to go for a drink) he was both polite and left when I said no. And this was in Shibuya which is known for its night life. So yeah, I think warning about it has more to do with Japan's rather conservative culture than actual danger. If you look at the statistics any kind of violent crime is extremely rare.

I frankly think it's pointless to say it's dangerous because you aren't as strong as men... It's the society's job to ensure the streets are safe and if they can't do that it's a problem with them. I do realize that the society I live in is extremely safe, but I can't imagine wanting to live somewhere that wasn't. I know I'm privileged in being able to choose where I live, but as long as I have that right I will exert it.

So yeah, seeing people say that in anime triggers me pretty hard, knowing that Japan is as safe as it is.
Might I ask where you were originally raised?
MeisterDM said:
Women are more likely to get attacked and/or sexually harassed at night than men.

Anyways, I hate going out after sunset.
Sexually harassed: yes; attacked: no.

Also sexual harassment happens more often during the day than during the night so to only have another escort one at night makes no sense in this respect. I'd go so far as to say that it's just being afraid in the dark.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 30, 6:35 PM

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Sphinxter said:
NthDegree said:
Being both a woman and having lived in Japan for a year, I honestly don't get what the fuss is about. I walked around at night and found nothing even remotely threatening. Even the single time when someone actually talked to me (he asked if I wanted to go for a drink) he was both polite and left when I said no. And this was in Shibuya which is known for its night life. So yeah, I think warning about it has more to do with Japan's rather conservative culture than actual danger. If you look at the statistics any kind of violent crime is extremely rare.

I frankly think it's pointless to say it's dangerous because you aren't as strong as men... It's the society's job to ensure the streets are safe and if they can't do that it's a problem with them. I do realize that the society I live in is extremely safe, but I can't imagine wanting to live somewhere that wasn't. I know I'm privileged in being able to choose where I live, but as long as I have that right I will exert it.

So yeah, seeing people say that in anime triggers me pretty hard, knowing that Japan is as safe as it is.
Might I ask where you were originally raised?

*points at the profile*
I'm Finnish.
My condolences to KyoAni #PrayForKyoani
 
May 30, 6:36 PM

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Pullman said:
Unowen said:
Where were you from? So I avoid crossing your neighborhood lol


I'm from the city with the highest living quality worldwide :>


Just because you come from a place with the highest building quality does equal to personal safety
 
May 30, 7:00 PM

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Sphinxter said:
It's a thing in some cultures; it also seems to happen a lot in North America that parents brainwash their female children into being utterly afraid of life and being completely dependent on males for protection as if having a male aside one when you're facing a gunrobbery is going to help.

It IS actually safer, if a guy is on your side. I always was and I am thankful at some places to have a (male) company. Especially, if they are tall(er) and not that totally slim. The offender will think twice, because they respect them more than a woman and they see less chance to attack you.
Also, it was very comfortable in bars, when they lied about being my, or another's woman, boyfriend.

Back to topic: I think, Japan's criminal statistics are pretty good, but no country is free of crime.
Still would understand that sentence more in America or Europe or somewhere else.
Modified by Maneki-Mew, May 30, 7:12 PM
 
May 30, 7:07 PM

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NthDegree said:
Sphinxter said:
Might I ask where you were originally raised?

*points at the profile*
I'm Finnish.
And you feel this mentality is not common in Finland?

My experience with Finland is that it seems to have a weird love–hate relationship with gender roles simultaneously being very progressive and very conservative about them in different areæ.

Maneki-Mew said:

It IS actually safer, if a guy is on your side. I always was and I am thankful at some places to have a (male) company. Especially, if they are tall(er) and not that totally slim. The offender will think twice, because they respect them more than a woman and they see less chance to attack you.
Also, it was very comfortable in bars, when they lied about being my, or another's woman, boyfriend.
That I am super sceptical about given that statistics all indicate that one is considerably more likely to be sexually harassed by a familiar whom one is comfortable with and whom one trusts than a stranger.

It wouldn't at all surprise me if the male walking you home is more likely to sexually harass you than the stranger he's supposed to protect you from.

Also most sexual harassment happens during the day, not at night, so why is it specifically needed at night? All this to me screams that it's an act based in tradition and gender roles and not an actual rational risk-analysis.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 30, 7:27 PM

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Sphinxter said:
[That I am super sceptical about given that statistics all indicate that one is considerably more likely to be sexually harassed by a familiar whom one is comfortable with and whom one trusts than a stranger.

It wouldn't at all surprise me if the male walking you home is more likely to sexually harass you than the stranger he's supposed to protect you from.

Also most sexual harassment happens during the day, not at night, so why is it specifically needed at night? All this to me screams that it's an act based in tradition and gender roles and not an actual rational risk-analysis.

That's what the statistics say, but (your personal) reality often looks different.
When I was without company of male friends, I found myself a few times in very frightening situations. So, I know very well what I'm speaking of.

Also, two of them are gay and the other three (and other Inwould trust), well... friendship is based on trust and I don't believe that the majority of guys are these hormone driven to become attacking sex monsters. I know from two that they are attracted to me, because we are saying such things for fun, but that doesn't mean that I can't trust them to respect me.

@Pullman is completely right about that. I'm living in Vienna too and it matters, where you are. Few years ago, I had to take the trains from "well-known" stations sometimes or crossing some places to get there after midnight.
It's not like these friends come with you everytime, when you are out or vice versa.
When I'm going home from a bar or an evening with friends in other districts like today, I never ran into a seriously frightening encounter.
 
May 31, 8:34 AM

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Sphinxter said:
NthDegree said:

*points at the profile*
I'm Finnish.
And you feel this mentality is not common in Finland?

My experience with Finland is that it seems to have a weird love–hate relationship with gender roles simultaneously being very progressive and very conservative about them in different areæ.

I'm not sure to be honest. It's not the kind of topic that comes up very often. Tbh, I don't remember the last time I've talked about safety with anyone.

I'm curious on what the conservative part is from outsider's perspective?
My condolences to KyoAni #PrayForKyoani
 
May 31, 8:58 AM
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Sphinxter said:
NthDegree said:
Being both a woman and having lived in Japan for a year, I honestly don't get what the fuss is about. I walked around at night and found nothing even remotely threatening. Even the single time when someone actually talked to me (he asked if I wanted to go for a drink) he was both polite and left when I said no. And this was in Shibuya which is known for its night life. So yeah, I think warning about it has more to do with Japan's rather conservative culture than actual danger. If you look at the statistics any kind of violent crime is extremely rare.

I frankly think it's pointless to say it's dangerous because you aren't as strong as men... It's the society's job to ensure the streets are safe and if they can't do that it's a problem with them. I do realize that the society I live in is extremely safe, but I can't imagine wanting to live somewhere that wasn't. I know I'm privileged in being able to choose where I live, but as long as I have that right I will exert it.

So yeah, seeing people say that in anime triggers me pretty hard, knowing that Japan is as safe as it is.
Might I ask where you were originally raised?
MeisterDM said:
Women are more likely to get attacked and/or sexually harassed at night than men.

Anyways, I hate going out after sunset.
Sexually harassed: yes; attacked: no.

Also sexual harassment happens more often during the day than during the night so to only have another escort one at night makes no sense in this respect. I'd go so far as to say that it's just being afraid in the dark.


Yep, I have nyctophobia (fear of the dark) since childhood. I thought it would go away when I got older, but it didn’t.
 
May 31, 1:43 PM

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NthDegree said:
Sphinxter said:
And you feel this mentality is not common in Finland?

My experience with Finland is that it seems to have a weird love–hate relationship with gender roles simultaneously being very progressive and very conservative about them in different areæ.

I'm not sure to be honest. It's not the kind of topic that comes up very often. Tbh, I don't remember the last time I've talked about safety with anyone.
Well then it isn't I guess at least not in your circles.

One has to appreciate that in say Japan or the US female children are taught repeatedly the idea since childhood to never be alone at night and are constantly taught to be afraid and even before puberty taught the lie that they are weaker than males whilst these strength disparities do not emerge before puberty.

I'm curious on what the conservative part is from outsider's perspective?
What stands out is that Finland actually has sex-segregated p.e. classes even before puberty, single-sex conscription and fashion police in the army, mixed-sex saunas and a particularly strong "macho culture" amongst males in my experience.

In the Netherlands p.e. classes are mixed even in secondary school because it's an informal secondary school game and not a serious athletic competition; conscription is unisex and the military in all respects holds the same standards to males and females (females can attempt to join the commandos (rejects 90% of its applicants) but no female thus far has succeeded to meet the physical demands); saunas are mixed-sex and all that good stuff.

Just talking to Finns in general I often see justifications and defences of gender roles that would be severely faux-pas in the Netherlands; it seems to be fairly common of Finns to defend the fact that the military holds different fashion standards for males and females whereas in the Netherlands that was shot down in the 70s already because a male refused to comply with it arguing that females were allowed long hair too and the people were of the opinion "Well, if females can have it there is no reason to prohibit males; let the man have his long hair as he wants" and they voted and changed the law.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 31, 3:26 PM

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Posts: 1709
Sphinxter said:
NthDegree said:

I'm not sure to be honest. It's not the kind of topic that comes up very often. Tbh, I don't remember the last time I've talked about safety with anyone.
Well then it isn't I guess at least not in your circles.

One has to appreciate that in say Japan or the US female children are taught repeatedly the idea since childhood to never be alone at night and are constantly taught to be afraid and even before puberty taught the lie that they are weaker than males whilst these strength disparities do not emerge before puberty.

I'm curious on what the conservative part is from outsider's perspective?
What stands out is that Finland actually has sex-segregated p.e. classes even before puberty, single-sex conscription and fashion police in the army, mixed-sex saunas and a particularly strong "macho culture" amongst males in my experience.

In the Netherlands p.e. classes are mixed even in secondary school because it's an informal secondary school game and not a serious athletic competition; conscription is unisex and the military in all respects holds the same standards to males and females (females can attempt to join the commandos (rejects 90% of its applicants) but no female thus far has succeeded to meet the physical demands); saunas are mixed-sex and all that good stuff.

Just talking to Finns in general I often see justifications and defences of gender roles that would be severely faux-pas in the Netherlands; it seems to be fairly common of Finns to defend the fact that the military holds different fashion standards for males and females whereas in the Netherlands that was shot down in the 70s already because a male refused to comply with it arguing that females were allowed long hair too and the people were of the opinion "Well, if females can have it there is no reason to prohibit males; let the man have his long hair as he wants" and they voted and changed the law.

I don't know what whether that's common in other schools but my PE classes in elementary school were co-ed. They only changed it into separated in the last two years of elementary school, ie. when puberty starts to become a thing. I don't know where you get your information but at least it doesn't reflect on my personal experience. It could be that different schools do things differently, since school have quite a lot of autonomy here.

As for mixed sex saunas... How is that conservative? If anything I'd say it's quite liberal. Either way, although there are plenty of mixed saunas gender separated ones are even more common. I think you're already aware but just in case... nudity is not seen as sexual by default here.

I actually do agree with that "macho" culture somewhat... That type of "tears are for the weak" mentality... Even though it's mostly the older generation by now. I'm not sure what part of it is the culture and what's just the stereotype as Finnish people (including women) as "manly" though. The Swedish people I know like to poke fun at that stereotype.

I'm unaware of the military protocols, since I'm too weak and nerdy to consider joining it an option lol... Well, maybe I'd have a chance on the web security side lol. Either way, I don't really have any defense for those. In general though, I do think people who choose occupations such as soldier or police tend to be more conservative than the average population, so perhaps that's why they still have such a rule. The same is true in religious institutions too - here people tend to deal with religion by denouncing their faith, leaving the church full of stubborn old farts.

It seems like you've talked to some Finns before, but I think opinions on these kind of things depend largely person by person. Well, I'm glad to hear the Netherlands is progressive in these fronts, since my bf is dutch lol. Sadly, he doesn't like talking about politics though.
My condolences to KyoAni #PrayForKyoani
 
May 31, 4:00 PM

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NthDegree said:

I don't know what whether that's common in other schools but my PE classes in elementary school were co-ed. They only changed it into separated in the last two years of elementary school, ie. when puberty starts to become a thing. I don't know where you get your information but at least it doesn't reflect on my personal experience. It could be that different schools do things differently, since school have quite a lot of autonomy here.
Well segregating it all from my perspective is strange. They were mixed sex all till the end here and even amateur sports mix them; only at the professional level are they segregated here. To segregate 10 year old children in p.e. classes seems strange to me.

As for mixed sex saunas... How is that conservative? If anything I'd say it's quite liberal. Either way, although there are plenty of mixed saunas gender separated ones are even more common. I think you're already aware but just in case... nudity is not seen as sexual by default here.
Yeah I misspoke; what I meant to say is that in Finland the saunas are segregated whereas here they are mixed. There essentially do not exist segregated saunas here but there are saunas where one wears swimwear opposed to full nudity.

I actually do agree with that "macho" culture somewhat... That type of "tears are for the weak" mentality... Even though it's mostly the older generation by now. I'm not sure what part of it is the culture and what's just the stereotype as Finnish people (including women) as "manly" though. The Swedish people I know like to poke fun at that stereotype.
Yes, the thing is that it also extends to the females I guess but not to the same extend so in that sense I can't fault it too much. But a big part of what keeps single-sex conscription alike seems to be a pervasive belief shared by Finns that if one partook not one isn't "a real man". There seems to be a lot of cock behavior amongst Finnish males which is probably also one of the reasons of the high violent crime rates compared to neighbouring countries.

I'm unaware of the military protocols, since I'm too weak and nerdy to consider joining it an option lol... Well, maybe I'd have a chance on the web security side lol. Either way, I don't really have any defense for those. In general though, I do think people who choose occupations such as soldier or police tend to be more conservative than the average population, so perhaps that's why they still have such a rule. The same is true in religious institutions too - here people tend to deal with religion by denouncing their faith, leaving the church full of stubborn old farts.
Well the major problem is I guess that for males in Finland a year of service is mandatory. Each male has the legal requirement in Finland to cut his hair short at least once in his life which I find a severe infringement on personal rights.

What is indeed a major thing is that in Finland the military is fairly autonomous and can set its own standards. There have been two cases in the Netherlands of a fairly high commanding officer writing a memo requiring males to have short hair; the military union in both cases alerted the authorities and the government reigned them back and just said "Nope, not going to happen; the law is clear and if you can't work with the law we will find someone who can."; I wouldn't be surprised if the conservative higher-ups in the Netherlands want a more conservative dresscode and that one general that was the supreme commander of the air force at the time has made such statement of his desire for "external discipline" as he called it but the legislative as a repræsentation of the people won't have it. The people by and large feel that a soldier can still be a good soldier have he a green mohawk or be he male with long hair. And that just doesn't seem to be the case in Finland because there have been attempts to get it to lax up but they never got traction.

It seems like you've talked to some Finns before but I think opinions on these kind of things depend largely person by person. Well, I'm glad to hear the Netherlands is progressive in these fronts, since my bf is dutch lol. Sadly, he doesn't like talking about politics though.
No, mulla oli sama juttu. Mun suomalainen ystävä joka eläi Hollanissa ei tykännyt puhua politiikasta. Niin kaikki josta mä voin puhua suomeks on jutut niin kuin "Juu, pane mua neekerikyrvälläs silmäkuoppaani." ja "Mä tykkään söpöista loleista".

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
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