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#1
May 27, 1:44 PM

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So I have a question about this frequent little line that I see in anime series. The teens are out wondering the town and night approaches. Male characters will then frequently tell the girls that "its not safe for girls to walk around alone, a guy should escort you". The girls always need to be walked home, never let them go alone! I am curious for anyone who lives in Japan if this is a real concern for people living there. I am not super familiar with everyday life there but I do know that compared to other industrialized countries the crime rate is absurdly low. Perhaps higher sexual crimes but even so is there this paranoia that there are perverts ready to jump out to attack girls/women who are alone? Or is this just some trope in anime to give an excuse to force characters together to advance the plot?
 
#2
May 27, 4:59 PM
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rather than being a japanese specific thing its more of a univerval thing that i'm aware of. while it is to a certain extent exaggerated there is some truth to it.specially when you consider that rape and other forms of sexual harassement is often unreported in japan. so while it does give the impression that it is low we can't really know considering this sad facet of how things are.

TL;DR its mostly hyperbole that's based on common sense thinking, and it also neatly can serve as a plot device for romantic development if its that's the case.
A: No. but to sum up, This is either real or a transcedental hypersimulation indistinguishable from reality.
Q: how to tell the difference ?
A: wait for the power to fail. it always does.
 
#3
May 27, 5:06 PM

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It's a thing in some cultures; it also seems to happen a lot in North America that parents brainwash their female children into being utterly afraid of life and being completely dependent on males for protection as if having a male aside one when you're facing a gunrobbery is going to help.

If you ask me it's just another case of "daddy's fragile princess complex"; comes from the same bucket of bullshit that parents often seem extremely concerned when their teenage female children gain an interest in sex but not their males.

Naturally it's more common in cultures with strong gender roles like North America and Japan. As far as I know it doesn't happen in the Netherlands; I've never been asked or expected to accompany a female friend because it's late at night and they typically just find their own way home.

Yeah, it's paranoia and gender brainwashing — one can easily see that this is so because many of those crimes they're so afraid of males are statistically more likely to be the victim of because the criminal is not automatically the idiot. It turns out that have one a gun physical strength becomes irrelevant and criminals target whomever they think to have money on him and as it stands they know that males are statistically more likely to carry more money on them so those become their targets.

edit: Also I gain the distinct impression that a lot of those males that waste their time giving into that crap actually enjoy doing so because they're similarly brainwashed into deriving their so-called "sense of masculinity" from wasting their time and energy being a big strong "protector" of these fragile female maidens.
Modified by Sphinxter, May 27, 5:59 PM

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
#4
May 27, 5:07 PM

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I don't know about Japan specifically, but my stepmother says it all the time to my younger sister that she should walk with a guy friend if she's coming home late. So I guess it must be a worldwide thing.

Even if Japan has low crime rates, sexual crimes usually go under reported, because of the feeling of guilt and shame victims feel. Also, they fear police won't take them seriously or will judge them. I suppose in a country so dead set on conservative family views and "being pure for marriage" rape would be massively under reported, but still generally known unofficially. Maybe that's why.
 
#5
May 27, 5:41 PM

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I have an app on my iPhone that I use when I walk alone late at night - if I take my finger off the button on the screen, I have 5 seconds to put in a code before the service calls the police and tells them my location.

It's not a Japanese thing. It's just part of being female. But the "I have to walk with you" thing is probably just for the sake of story progression.

 
#6
May 27, 5:46 PM

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Yea it's not really a cultural thing more of a worldwide thing, especially with women because of sexual assault and stuff

Turning it into a big deal is probably just a plot/romance device
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#7
May 27, 5:52 PM

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haunted said:
I have an app on my iPhone that I use when I walk alone late at night - if I take my finger off the button on the screen, I have 5 seconds to put in a code before the service calls the police and tells them my location.


Damn, that's a really nice idea for an app. Shame it's needed though...
 
#8
May 27, 5:59 PM

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Short_Circut said:
Yea it's not really a cultural thing more of a worldwide thing, especially with women because of sexual assault and stuff
Yes it's a cultural thing; you won't see much of it in North-West Europe.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
#9
May 27, 6:03 PM

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It's not safe in real life either unless you're ugly and even then that doesn't prevent muggings, drive bys, and stray bullets.


 
May 27, 6:04 PM

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Perverts and muggers. Drive-by shooters. Stray gunshots. That sort of thing. Not safe. I've never walked anyone but I have recommended those apps. If I'm sexist for that, then so be it. The hood is not a place to fuck around.


As for Japan, there aren't really any rapists or muggers jumping out of an alleyway there so I'm guessing it's to be polite and look good. Or maybe to be actually helpful. I don't know.


Modified by HungryForQuality, May 27, 6:08 PM

 
May 27, 6:13 PM

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HungryForQuality said:
Perverts and muggers. Drive-by shooters. Stray gunshots. That sort of thing. Not safe. I've never walked anyone but I have recommended those apps. If I'm sexist for that, then so be it. The hood is not a place to fuck around.
It can be unsafe in certain places but that doesn't make having another specifically male individual with one automatically make it safer. Drive-by shooters? How is an unarmed male going to defend you?

The fact that it's so about gender roles and that if you're female you should specifically have a male to escort you shows what it's all about it; chivalry and gender roles; the modern incarnation of "holding the door open for a lady".


As for Japan, there aren't really any rapists or muggers jumping out of an alleyway there so I'm guessing it's to be polite and look good. Or maybe to be actually helpful. I don't know.
And this is exactly why it's all about gender roles and not about actual risks; Japan has very low violent crime rates but very high præsence of gender roles and that's exactly why it's not really a thing that happens in Denmark, higher crime rates than Japan but low emphasis on gender roles in comparison. If it were actually about safety it wouldn't be such a gendered thing and people would just not walk alone in general and as said having another with you is not going to stop the kinetic force of a bullet.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 27, 6:20 PM

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It's part of something called bushido in Japan, similar to the concept of chivalry in Europe and is a basic code of honor and morals, which more people should have some respect for. Treat people with respect and kindness and protect those in need, which was usually those who didn't fight like women or children. Basically it's a beutiful but sadly dying concept since gender equality became a thing, but so sue me I still open doors for ladies or guys with their hands full and help my elderly neighbors with yard and housework . Still, depending on where you live traveling is numbers at night is still pretty much common sense, especially if you live somewhere with a high crime rate, dangerous terrain, or wildlife and you don't own a vehicle (most of Japan doesn't, they get around by public transportation like subways and rail).
Modified by Kruszer, May 27, 6:26 PM
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May 27, 6:22 PM

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-sexual crime goes under-reported since "the nail that sticks out get hammered down" type of culture will look down on you. There are many variants in which this exists in other cultures that create the same problem.
-even if crime gets seen, police and the law are corrupt.

How badly is it corrupt? A lot of the dead bodies in which show no clear suspect, even without any investigation, will be ruled as suicide.
The NPA has admitted that in Japan only 10 percent of suspicious deaths result in an autopsy. However, when a death initially appears to be due to suicide, only 5 percent are autopsied. The lack of a comprehensive use of autopsies was only brought to the public’s attention after several cases of “missed murders” came to light.
Many bodies won't ever be touched before such a ruling takes place. This is mostly due to insurances not wanting to cover for murder, because it's more expensive (ie. paying for murder investigations). Ever wonder why Japan was infamous for high suicide rates? This is why


Thanks Nintendo
 
May 27, 6:22 PM

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Kruszer said:
It's part of something called bushido in Japan, similar to the concept of chivalry in Europe and is a basic code of honor and morals, which more people should have some respect for. Treat people with respect and kindness and protect those in need, which was usually those who didn't fight like women or children. Basically it's a beutiful but sadly dying concept since gender equality became a thing, but so sue me I still open doors for ladies or guys with their hands full and help the my elderly neighbors with yard and housework . Still, depending on where you live traveling is numbers at night is still pretty much common sense, especially if you live somewhere with a high crime rate, dangerous terrain, or wildlife and you don't own a vehicle (most of Japan doesn't, they get around by public transportation like subways and rail).
That you put "ladies" and "guys with their hands full" in the same category shows how much nonsense it is.

Experience has taught me that "ladies" are typically completely capable of opening doors themselves opposed to whoever has his hands full.

It just goes to show it has nothing to do with "being in need" and just with gender roles.

If one truly want to help those in need then there's a very easy way to do that: vote socialism and relocate more resources from the rich to the poor.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 27, 6:23 PM
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From what I've heard Japan is actually pretty good with crime, there's not as much of it compared to some western countries. It's just about being cautious, and about being polite. Even if there wasn't a risk of the girls getting into trouble, it wouldn't be very chivalrous if someone just let them walk themselves home
 
May 27, 6:33 PM

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@Sphinxter

Yeah, I agree, being with a guy won't stop a woman from getting shot, but that's the most extreme of cases, specially regarding Japan.

The thing women fear the most (from what I've gathered) is being sexually assaulted, not mugged. In that case, being with another person (it doesn't even have to be a man) will lessen the chances of being sexually assaulted (and even mugged, because overpowering two or more people is harder than just one girl, so the criminal will turn to easier targets). Yeah, most rapes are committed by people they know and are close to, but regarding rapists on the streets, which is a crime of chance, even walking with an umbrella (I remember reading it somewhere, I might look for it, if you want to) on their hand makes them less of a potential target.
 
May 27, 6:41 PM

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A woman walking around with a guy decreases the chance of being sexually assaulted. It's really nothing more than that.
 
May 27, 6:42 PM

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Aastra343 said:
@Sphinxter

Yeah, I agree, being with a guy won't stop a woman from getting shot, but that's the most extreme of cases, specially regarding Japan.

The thing women fear the most (from what I've gathered) is being sexually assaulted, not mugged. In that case, being with another person (it doesn't even have to be a man) will lessen the chances of being sexually assaulted (and even mugged, because overpowering two or more people is harder than just one girl, so the criminal will turn to easier targets).


Then why does it have to be a male? Why exactly one male? The way I see it the more the better and the gender isn't that relevant.

The reason why the focus is on getting exactly one male is because it's about gender roles and chivalry. If you get two males to walk you home it lessens the chivalric effect because they can't feel like a knight in a shining armor protecting a fair maiden that way.

I'm sure it helps just like many other things no one is doing help but that it's about this specific scenario shows to me that it's not about actually wanting to solve a problem but just about living up to cultural gender roles. It's a gendered cultural gesture like kissing a hand, just what one is supposed to do.

Yeah, most rapes are committed by people they know and are close to, but regarding rapists on the streets, which is a crime of chance, even walking with an umbrella (I remember reading it somewhere, I might look for it, if you want to) on their hand makes them less of a potential target.
This is indeed exaclty what I was going to mention.

All these parents that instill into their female children the idea that they need a male with them at night don't seem to all put any effort into making their female children safe against the potential of teachers or relatives sexually assaulting them which is the real danger because it's again about gender roles and chivalry. Just something one's supposed to do in those cultures like pulling a chair out.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 27, 7:18 PM
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Ugh, I certainly didn't expect this to become a topic on gender roles and whatnot. No matter what I personally think of this overused trope it's still there.

Even in shoujo manga written by women it's common for something like this to happen, it's a way to show how chivalrous the romantic interest is. Now it might be nonsensical or not as effective as the common saying goes. But this is what these people were ingrained to think works for occassions like this since the shows era. And Japan is really slow to adapt to social changes of any kind. So it stuck on the public memory as a romantic gesture that one does for their love interest.

It also has a bit of a politeness thing to it in Japan, even if you don't particularly want to do it you might be expected to offer it out of politeness.
A: No. but to sum up, This is either real or a transcedental hypersimulation indistinguishable from reality.
Q: how to tell the difference ?
A: wait for the power to fail. it always does.
 
May 27, 7:30 PM

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Megumi Ogata just got GRABBED by a man (at night) so yeah, I'd say this worry is pretty grounded in reality, unfortunately.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2019-05-24/voice-actress-megumi-ogata-describes-sexual-harassment-incident-at-tokyo-bar-district/.147070

I think it's also something that could apply to anywhere but men are less likely to go after a girl who is being escorted by another guy because they don't want their asses kicked. xD



 
May 27, 7:35 PM

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i agree with what everyone has said about it being a culture thing. like my parents would always tell me to walk home with someone whenever i'm out. and i mean, as a safety precaution too, it is wise to be with others that you trust when out and about -- however, when gender comes into to the picture, that's when it becomes cultural... and factual, to my understanding.

not sure if anyone has the numbers, but if boys are statistically more likely to attack girls when out and about, then it has been proven fact that more than likely boys will attack girls outside. and thus, girls will have to take the necessary precautions to avoid such things from happening... and one way of doing so is by having "a male companion escort a girl though-out the night until they are safely home, or at a comfortable space".

again, if that's the case, then the idea of "walking with a boy at night as your escort" falls into factual and cultural backing.

which begs the question: can girls also group up with other girls and create a safe walk through-out the night? in which it may all fall back into cultural and factual backing. culturally, one must have a strong companion that accompanies them -- and being a boy/man fills in those shoes. factually, boys are grow physically stronger than girls by nature (not sure if thats a fact, but I've heard it from multiple sources in the past). Thus, a guy must escort a girl when walking at night in order to fill the status quo of being "safe".

imo this sucks that us girls have to take these extra precautions -- however, as much as i hate saying this: it is what it is. :(

but what do ya'll think? --love discussing!

-Crandall
 
May 27, 7:37 PM

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Recycled_Content said:
Ugh, I certainly didn't expect this to become a topic on gender roles and whatnot. No matter what I personally think of this overused trope it's still there.

Even in shoujo manga written by women it's common for something like this to happen, it's a way to show how chivalrous the romantic interest is. Now it might be nonsensical or not as effective as the common saying goes. But this is what these people were ingrained to think works for occassions like this since the shows era. And Japan is really slow to adapt to social changes of any kind. So it stuck on the public memory as a romantic gesture that one does for their love interest.

It also has a bit of a politeness thing to it in Japan, even if you don't particularly want to do it you might be expected to offer it out of politeness.
I don't deny any of that at all but I do contest two claims that are common in this thread: A) It is universal; B) It is done out of serious practical concern rather than just gender roles.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 27, 7:54 PM

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CrandallCrandy said:


which begs the question: can girls also group up with other girls and create a safe walk through-out the night?


There's a saying "There's safety in numbers", so yes, this is true. If I feel that I'm in an unsafe area, I try to walk close to a group of people when it's dark out. Their genders don't matter; they are people.

It works. Again, someone on their own is an easier target for mugging/assault.



 
May 27, 8:06 PM
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Sure its likely not a universal thing, but from my experience and contact with others it's common pretty much anywhere. It might not be exactly universal but it's certainly frequent.

And while it's not a practical thing to do it's a cultural one, and lo and behold Japan is a country steep into tradition and it's culture, sure there's the gender thing there, but that's just another facet of how their culture developed. Politeness is very important to them, it's one of the things that's there since the timed the bushido was the common practice. Since it's a cultural phenomenon fiction will naturally imitate it without questioning it. And this comes back to the question OP made.
A: No. but to sum up, This is either real or a transcedental hypersimulation indistinguishable from reality.
Q: how to tell the difference ?
A: wait for the power to fail. it always does.
 
May 27, 8:13 PM

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gswelcome said:
So I have a question about this frequent little line that I see in anime series. The teens are out wondering the town and night approaches. Male characters will then frequently tell the girls that "its not safe for girls to walk around alone, a guy should escort you". The girls always need to be walked home, never let them go alone! I am curious for anyone who lives in Japan if this is a real concern for people living there. I am not super familiar with everyday life there but I do know that compared to other industrialized countries the crime rate is absurdly low. Perhaps higher sexual crimes but even so is there this paranoia that there are perverts ready to jump out to attack girls/women who are alone? Or is this just some trope in anime to give an excuse to force characters together to advance the plot?

This is definitely not just some anime trope m8. It's a universal thing.

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May 27, 8:23 PM

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I don't live in Japan, but speaking from purely anecdotal evidence as an 18-year-old Asian American female living in an average suburban area in Southern California, I can say that it's in my damn best interest to not walk alone at night.

Some incidents I've experienced after 2 years of walking home at night from my job (before I got a car):
- Guys whistling at me to get into their car, at least once a week
- A large man following me from the bridge to my neighborhood, I eventually had to take a detour to a large apartment complex across the street and camp out at my friend's house for the night
- Homeless people pestering me for money, food or drugs
- Homeless people offering me drugs, probably to dope me up and then rape me
- A woman grabbing me and begging to dance with me, on the 4th of July, my co-workers had to intervene and we sped out of there very quickly
- A harmless-looking family asking me for directions, and then the father groping me with the mother seeing but turning a blind eye until I decided to run
- People in general following me, to which I've always taken refuge in the Target near my house or at my friend's apartment because fuck that shit

etc. etc. etc.

Not only that but my experiences with walking at night with girls vs walking at night with boys is drastically different. I could walk home with my female co-worker, both of us dressed modestly in uniforms and still get cat-called. But if I walk home with a male co-worker, then it's very rare that I run into trouble.
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It doesn't matter how many bishounens are in an anime if the plot is shit.
 
May 27, 8:27 PM

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CrandallCrandy said:
not sure if anyone has the numbers, but if boys are statistically more likely to attack girls when out and about, then it has been proven fact that more than likely boys will attack girls outside. and thus, girls will have to take the necessary precautions to avoid such things from happening... and one way of doing so is by having "a male companion escort a girl though-out the night until they are safely home, or at a comfortable space".
Well it's a well known statistic on sexual assault et alia that the numbers continue to say that despite what lives in the popular perception that "stranger assault" is comparatively rare compared to assault by agents that are quite well known to the victim.

This of course begs the quæstion of whether or not asking another to accompany one home might in fact increase the chance of sexual assault simply because of the latter possibly assaulting one.

Sexual assault typically is perpetrated by those whom the victim had prior put his trust in and who then betray said trust, those whom the victim feels comfortable being vulnerable around after which that is taken advantage of.

That sounds like exactly an agent the would-be victim would commission to walk him home.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 27, 9:19 PM

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ixaa said:
I don't live in Japan, but speaking from purely anecdotal evidence as an 18-year-old Asian American female living in an average suburban area in Southern California, I can say that it's in my damn best interest to not walk alone at night.

Some incidents I've experienced after 2 years of walking home at night from my job (before I got a car):
- Guys whistling at me to get into their car, at least once a week
- A large man following me from the bridge to my neighborhood, I eventually had to take a detour to a large apartment complex across the street and camp out at my friend's house for the night
- Homeless people pestering me for money, food or drugs
- Homeless people offering me drugs, probably to dope me up and then rape me
- A woman grabbing me and begging to dance with me, on the 4th of July, my co-workers had to intervene and we sped out of there very quickly
- A harmless-looking family asking me for directions, and then the father groping me with the mother seeing but turning a blind eye until I decided to run
- People in general following me, to which I've always taken refuge in the Target near my house or at my friend's apartment because fuck that shit

etc. etc. etc.

Not only that but my experiences with walking at night with girls vs walking at night with boys is drastically different. I could walk home with my female co-worker, both of us dressed modestly in uniforms and still get cat-called. But if I walk home with a male co-worker, then it's very rare that I run into trouble.


This thread was created because a lot of/most men just aren't aware of how common experiences like you described are. Or how far we go out of our way to avoid bad situations or protect ourselves if we get into one. (Key between the fingers, "I can throw my hot coffee in his face", check the backseat when you get back into your car, etc.)

I've run into street traffic before to escape a guy who was running after me, yelling sexual things, then change to screaming insults and cuss words because I hurt his feelings, I guess? I had a man cross the street last month to ask me how far away the police station is while walking in my extremely safe neighborhood after midnight. (The answer was, "RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER, THEY'LL PROBABLY HEAR ME SCREAM". Then I ran away.)

The culture that thinks girls/women aren't in danger when they're outside alone at night is the exception. I actually don't even think insisting on walking a girl home would be weird unless you don't know her. It just sounds either like you're concerned for her safety or you're flirting.
Modified by haunted, May 27, 9:26 PM

 
May 27, 9:41 PM

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Perhaps I'm not attentive enough, but I don't really see much instances of a someone telling "its not safe for girls to walk around alone, a guy should escort you" in most shows. Which shows this season or last season, beside the one I'm about to mention, has instances of this?

An example of a current airing show that has something like this is GeGeGe no Kitaro. There are numerous times when parents tell their kids to be wary of walking (especially alone) at night. Part is to be wary of regular crimes, but an even bigger part is that Yokais are prevalent in that setting. That threat of Yokais is a fairly good reason to be wary; even groups are vulnerable unless they have a magic user in the party. Ironically, even with her parent's concern, the main human character Mana keeps on wandering around alone at night.
 
May 27, 10:02 PM

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Dave_Adrian said:
gswelcome said:
So I have a question about this frequent little line that I see in anime series. The teens are out wondering the town and night approaches. Male characters will then frequently tell the girls that "its not safe for girls to walk around alone, a guy should escort you". The girls always need to be walked home, never let them go alone! I am curious for anyone who lives in Japan if this is a real concern for people living there. I am not super familiar with everyday life there but I do know that compared to other industrialized countries the crime rate is absurdly low. Perhaps higher sexual crimes but even so is there this paranoia that there are perverts ready to jump out to attack girls/women who are alone? Or is this just some trope in anime to give an excuse to force characters together to advance the plot?

This is definitely not just some anime trope m8. It's a universal thing.


Its used to push characters together by giving them an excuse to be "alone" and pretty frequently so I think even if the concern has real world validation its still a trope if overused. Though I guess it is also an extension of gender rolls, why the female characters are more likely to be clumsy so need rescuing, be scared of ghosts during the tests of courage and so on.

To the real world considerations I do wonder how much has to do with the neighborhoods being lived in. Much of this happens in certain areas of cities so outside of this it is much safer for all (in the US). Japan must be even more so especially in their smaller towns. Politeness and culture certainly would make sense to encourage the escorting especially as everyone (including adults) seem to walk everywhere and no one has a car in an anime.

Didn't mean to make the thread so serious though, srry bout that.
 
May 27, 10:20 PM

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haunted said:
ixaa said:
I don't live in Japan, but speaking from purely anecdotal evidence as an 18-year-old Asian American female living in an average suburban area in Southern California, I can say that it's in my damn best interest to not walk alone at night.

Some incidents I've experienced after 2 years of walking home at night from my job (before I got a car):
- Guys whistling at me to get into their car, at least once a week
- A large man following me from the bridge to my neighborhood, I eventually had to take a detour to a large apartment complex across the street and camp out at my friend's house for the night
- Homeless people pestering me for money, food or drugs
- Homeless people offering me drugs, probably to dope me up and then rape me
- A woman grabbing me and begging to dance with me, on the 4th of July, my co-workers had to intervene and we sped out of there very quickly
- A harmless-looking family asking me for directions, and then the father groping me with the mother seeing but turning a blind eye until I decided to run
- People in general following me, to which I've always taken refuge in the Target near my house or at my friend's apartment because fuck that shit

etc. etc. etc.

Not only that but my experiences with walking at night with girls vs walking at night with boys is drastically different. I could walk home with my female co-worker, both of us dressed modestly in uniforms and still get cat-called. But if I walk home with a male co-worker, then it's very rare that I run into trouble.


This thread was created because a lot of/most men just aren't aware of how common experiences like you described are. Or how far we go out of our way to avoid bad situations or protect ourselves if we get into one. (Key between the fingers, "I can throw my hot coffee in his face", check the backseat when you get back into your car, etc.)

I've run into street traffic before to escape a guy who was running after me, yelling sexual things, then change to screaming insults and cuss words because I hurt his feelings, I guess? I had a man cross the street last month to ask me how far away the police station is while walking in my extremely safe neighborhood after midnight. (The answer was, "RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER, THEY'LL PROBABLY HEAR ME SCREAM". Then I ran away.)

The culture that thinks girls/women aren't in danger when they're outside alone at night is the exception. I actually don't even think insisting on walking a girl home would be weird unless you don't know her. It just sounds either like you're concerned for her safety or you're flirting.


Oh cry me a river with your whining. Almost everywhere males are statistically more likely to be assaulted, beaten, murdered, stolen and what-not (and it's still not likely enough to warrant not walking home alone) but they're not as afraid simply because they've not been brainwashed into being since childhood — or who knows maybe they actually are but they're just too proud to admit it because they have been brainwashed since childhood into putting up a big-strong-man-front.

This isn't about threat; this is about gender roles and apart from that it's a general problem with most cultures that those therein fear the most that which is the least likely to affect them and this is an example thereof alongside the classic that people often are very afraid of flying whilst they have a higher chance of dying in the taxi ride to the airport than on the plane.

As said — one's probably more likely to be sexually assaulted by whoever walks one home than by a stranger whilst walking home alone. Fear is almost never a rational response based on threat analysis but based on emotion and what people are raised with. In almost every discussion about sexual assault it becomes clear that people fear being assaulted by strangers the most whilst the statistics are clear that it's comparatively rare to being assaulted by someone one is familiar with and trusts.

Statistics have never made a man afraid it seems. If he read a statistic about how something is dangerous he merely thinks "Heh, that's funny." but then continues to do it anyway. What makes a man afraid is cultural memes, not objective numbers.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 27, 10:28 PM

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ixaa said:
I don't live in Japan, but speaking from purely anecdotal evidence as an 18-year-old Asian American female living in an average suburban area in Southern California, I can say that it's in my damn best interest to not walk alone at night.

Some incidents I've experienced after 2 years of walking home at night from my job (before I got a car):
- Guys whistling at me to get into their car, at least once a week
- A large man following me from the bridge to my neighborhood, I eventually had to take a detour to a large apartment complex across the street and camp out at my friend's house for the night
- Homeless people pestering me for money, food or drugs
- Homeless people offering me drugs, probably to dope me up and then rape me
- A woman grabbing me and begging to dance with me, on the 4th of July, my co-workers had to intervene and we sped out of there very quickly
- A harmless-looking family asking me for directions, and then the father groping me with the mother seeing but turning a blind eye until I decided to run
- People in general following me, to which I've always taken refuge in the Target near my house or at my friend's apartment because fuck that shit

etc. etc. etc.

Not only that but my experiences with walking at night with girls vs walking at night with boys is drastically different. I could walk home with my female co-worker, both of us dressed modestly in uniforms and still get cat-called. But if I walk home with a male co-worker, then it's very rare that I run into trouble.


While yes, Women are far more likely to sexually assaulted, the trope is far overused when looking at the statistics. According to homicide statistics, 80% of people who are killed in homicides/ murder are men (US statistics) while many countries are closer to it being 90-99% of deaths being men. So men have much more to feat then women due. Albeit that the culture makes women more scared then they need to be
 
May 27, 10:49 PM

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Nightmare21st said:
ixaa said:
I don't live in Japan, but speaking from purely anecdotal evidence as an 18-year-old Asian American female living in an average suburban area in Southern California, I can say that it's in my damn best interest to not walk alone at night.

Some incidents I've experienced after 2 years of walking home at night from my job (before I got a car):
- Guys whistling at me to get into their car, at least once a week
- A large man following me from the bridge to my neighborhood, I eventually had to take a detour to a large apartment complex across the street and camp out at my friend's house for the night
- Homeless people pestering me for money, food or drugs
- Homeless people offering me drugs, probably to dope me up and then rape me
- A woman grabbing me and begging to dance with me, on the 4th of July, my co-workers had to intervene and we sped out of there very quickly
- A harmless-looking family asking me for directions, and then the father groping me with the mother seeing but turning a blind eye until I decided to run
- People in general following me, to which I've always taken refuge in the Target near my house or at my friend's apartment because fuck that shit

etc. etc. etc.

Not only that but my experiences with walking at night with girls vs walking at night with boys is drastically different. I could walk home with my female co-worker, both of us dressed modestly in uniforms and still get cat-called. But if I walk home with a male co-worker, then it's very rare that I run into trouble.


While yes, Women are far more likely to sexually assaulted, the trope is far overused when looking at the statistics. According to homicide statistics, 80% of people who are killed in homicides/ murder are men (US statistics) while many countries are closer to it being 90-99% of deaths being men. So men have much more to feat then women due. Albeit that the culture makes women more scared then they need to be

You seem to be dismissing her whole post. The trope is about being safe. Just because women are less likely to be murdered doesn't mean it's safe to walk home alone. Besides, some people would rather die than have to live through some of the shit that happens to women. The experiences above are very frightening to say the least.
 
May 27, 10:51 PM

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modboy said:
Nightmare21st said:


While yes, Women are far more likely to sexually assaulted, the trope is far overused when looking at the statistics. According to homicide statistics, 80% of people who are killed in homicides/ murder are men (US statistics) while many countries are closer to it being 90-99% of deaths being men. So men have much more to feat then women due. Albeit that the culture makes women more scared then they need to be

You seem to be dismissing her whole post. The trope is about being safe. Just because women are less likely to be murdered doesn't mean it's safe to walk home alone. Besides, some people would rather die than have to live through some of the shit that happens to women. The experiences above are very frightening to say the least.


I know many women who haven't experienced this type of harassment because its rare. On more then one occasion they do the same thing that men are not supposed to do. Even though we don't really care, its the same thing because you shouldn't do it in general.
 
May 27, 11:02 PM

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modboy said:
Nightmare21st said:


While yes, Women are far more likely to sexually assaulted, the trope is far overused when looking at the statistics. According to homicide statistics, 80% of people who are killed in homicides/ murder are men (US statistics) while many countries are closer to it being 90-99% of deaths being men. So men have much more to feat then women due. Albeit that the culture makes women more scared then they need to be

You seem to be dismissing her whole post. The trope is about being safe. Just because women are less likely to be murdered doesn't mean it's safe to walk home alone.
"safe" is a relative term. The remarkable part is more so how gendered it is whilst females don't actually suffer more risk than males and on top of that there's no good justification why one would specifically need a male to protect oneself. Why not two females which would surely be stronger than one male?

It's not about safety — it's about gender roles in the same way that pulling a chair in a very gendered way serves no practical function but is just done to keep the chivalry flowing just like this. There's a reason why specifically exactly one male is requested rather than two because how I see it the more the better and you're better off just walking back as a crowd, but that ruins the chivalry.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 27, 11:06 PM

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Sphinxter said:
haunted said:


This thread was created because a lot of/most men just aren't aware of how common experiences like you described are. Or how far we go out of our way to avoid bad situations or protect ourselves if we get into one. (Key between the fingers, "I can throw my hot coffee in his face", check the backseat when you get back into your car, etc.)

I've run into street traffic before to escape a guy who was running after me, yelling sexual things, then change to screaming insults and cuss words because I hurt his feelings, I guess? I had a man cross the street last month to ask me how far away the police station is while walking in my extremely safe neighborhood after midnight. (The answer was, "RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER, THEY'LL PROBABLY HEAR ME SCREAM". Then I ran away.)

The culture that thinks girls/women aren't in danger when they're outside alone at night is the exception. I actually don't even think insisting on walking a girl home would be weird unless you don't know her. It just sounds either like you're concerned for her safety or you're flirting.


Oh cry me a river with your whining. Almost everywhere males are statistically more likely to be assaulted, beaten, murdered, stolen and what-not (and it's still not likely enough to warrant not walking home alone) but they're not as afraid simply because they've not been brainwashed into being since childhood — or who knows maybe they actually are but they're just too proud to admit it because they have been brainwashed since childhood into putting up a big-strong-man-front.

This isn't about threat; this is about gender roles and apart from that it's a general problem with most cultures that those therein fear the most that which is the least likely to affect them and this is an example thereof alongside the classic that people often are very afraid of flying whilst they have a higher chance of dying in the taxi ride to the airport than on the plane.

As said — one's probably more likely to be sexually assaulted by whoever walks one home than by a stranger whilst walking home alone. Fear is almost never a rational response based on threat analysis but based on emotion and what people are raised with. In almost every discussion about sexual assault it becomes clear that people fear being assaulted by strangers the most whilst the statistics are clear that it's comparatively rare to being assaulted by someone one is familiar with and trusts.

Statistics have never made a man afraid it seems. If he read a statistic about how something is dangerous he merely thinks "Heh, that's funny." but then continues to do it anyway. What makes a man afraid is cultural memes, not objective numbers.


I skimmed your response and I don't see anything I care to respond to, except that it's always good to raise awareness of how much more likely people are to be assaulted by someone they know. Beyond that ... you went off on a tangent and I'm not joining you.

OP, the direct answer to your question is "gender norms, bushido, female socialization and experience - and, no, it's not unusual or unwarranted."

 
May 27, 11:17 PM

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Nightmare21st said:
modboy said:

You seem to be dismissing her whole post. The trope is about being safe. Just because women are less likely to be murdered doesn't mean it's safe to walk home alone. Besides, some people would rather die than have to live through some of the shit that happens to women. The experiences above are very frightening to say the least.


I know many women who haven't experienced this type of harassment because its rare. On more then one occasion they do the same thing that men are not supposed to do. Even though we don't really care, its the same thing because you shouldn't do it in general.


Survivor's Bias. "This type of harassment" is only "rare" because most women know better than to walk home every night from work. In my case, I did it out of necessity, not because I wanted to. However, every single woman I know who regularly walks/jogs at night all have crazy stories to tell. It's quite dangerous for us.

Though, to be completely fair, I know guys who have their share of stories. There's lots of them, but as a specific example: Some nights, my ex-boyfriend would walk home from work at 12AM. We worked in the same area (but lived in opposite directions RIP) and he would walk home just as much as I did. Of course, he experienced things like people following him, homeless people asking him for drugs, etc. however, he received far less sexual harassment than I did, and this generally rings true for all other men I've talked to.
a-wise-man said:
It doesn't matter how many bishounens are in an anime if the plot is shit.
 
May 27, 11:29 PM

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It universal, of course women should be free to walk alone at night but male friends should always walk women home, even if that means giving up a chance to get laid at a party.

Either that or make them get a taxi and not an uber or similar.
 
May 27, 11:35 PM

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ixaa said:
Nightmare21st said:


I know many women who haven't experienced this type of harassment because its rare. On more then one occasion they do the same thing that men are not supposed to do. Even though we don't really care, its the same thing because you shouldn't do it in general.


Survivor's Bias. "This type of harassment" is only "rare" because most women know better than to walk home every night from work. In my case, I did it out of necessity, not because I wanted to. However, every single woman I know who regularly walks/jogs at night all have crazy stories to tell. It's quite dangerous for us.

Though, to be completely fair, I know guys who have their share of stories. There's lots of them, but as a specific example: Some nights, my ex-boyfriend would walk home from work at 12AM. We worked in the same area (but lived in opposite directions RIP) and he would walk home just as much as I did. Of course, he experienced things like people following him, homeless people asking him for drugs, etc. however, he received far less sexual harassment than I did, and this generally rings true for all other men I've talked to.
Because you're actually mortally afraid when the homeless ask you for money or offer you something. Has anything physical actually happened ever because a homeless person asked you for money?

Indeed — I've had a lot of those things you list happen to me but I don't consider it a threat and don't get afraid of it to require someone else to walk with me to avoid that and I've never been attacked by a homeless person that asked for money with some being clearly under the influence of some lesser-than-legal substance.

These things indeed happen all the time; they're just not an actual real threat and the only reason you get so afraid of it is because of gendered brainwashing.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 27, 11:44 PM

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ixaa said:
Nightmare21st said:


I know many women who haven't experienced this type of harassment because its rare. On more then one occasion they do the same thing that men are not supposed to do. Even though we don't really care, its the same thing because you shouldn't do it in general.


Survivor's Bias. "This type of harassment" is only "rare" because most women know better than to walk home every night from work. In my case, I did it out of necessity, not because I wanted to. However, every single woman I know who regularly walks/jogs at night all have crazy stories to tell. It's quite dangerous for us.

Though, to be completely fair, I know guys who have their share of stories. There's lots of them, but as a specific example: Some nights, my ex-boyfriend would walk home from work at 12AM. We worked in the same area (but lived in opposite directions RIP) and he would walk home just as much as I did. Of course, he experienced things like people following him, homeless people asking him for drugs, etc. however, he received far less sexual harassment than I did, and this generally rings true for all other men I've talked to.


I see your point, but all the things you mention are not unique purely based on gender. Back to the point being that even though men should be afraid to walk around at night based on statistics, they aren't. Since in almost any category males have way higher risk then a female they should be the ones scared. Don't believe in what people tell you and don't base everything on your experiences, because while they are your experiences, its not relative to what reality actually is.
 
May 27, 11:51 PM
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its just better be safe than sorry thing (or safety first)
 
May 27, 11:57 PM
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It's not an anime trope. It's a universal thing. Me or my parents would never let my little sister walk outside at night by herself. People aren't trustworthy at all.
FUCK THE CHARACTER COUNT CHECK!
 
May 28, 12:20 AM

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I mean I never have been told this (more like i get the 'your being paranoid stupid' look when i mentioned this) but i get major social anxeity walking in the dark. Like I just don't know what is out there. Walking with someone being it female, male, child etc just feels safer to me (live in western europe btw). It's more of a mental thing? I have never been told to be fearful of this shit by anyone but it naturally develops when you know what shit is out there....seriously it's better safe than sorry.
'Those who like space, can't be bad people'


 
May 28, 12:40 AM

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Victinimad said:
I mean I never have been told this (more like i get the 'your being paranoid stupid' look when i mentioned this) but i get major social anxeity walking in the dark. Like I just don't know what is out there. Walking with someone being it female, male, child etc just feels safer to me (live in western europe btw). It's more of a mental thing? I have never been told to be fearful of this shit by anyone but it naturally develops when you know what shit is out there....seriously it's better safe than sorry.
This I can respect far more than the usual stuff in this thread.

It seems like irrational paranoia to me but at least you don't turn it into a gender role thing.

A friend of mine is afraid in the dark, inside or outside, a 28 year old that still crawls in bed with his parents (who seem to appreciate it less than I do and put him on a quotum) but he doesn't turn it into a gender thing.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
May 28, 3:36 AM
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Nightmare21st said:
ixaa said:
I don't live in Japan, but speaking from purely anecdotal evidence as an 18-year-old Asian American female living in an average suburban area in Southern California, I can say that it's in my damn best interest to not walk alone at night.

Some incidents I've experienced after 2 years of walking home at night from my job (before I got a car):
- Guys whistling at me to get into their car, at least once a week
- A large man following me from the bridge to my neighborhood, I eventually had to take a detour to a large apartment complex across the street and camp out at my friend's house for the night
- Homeless people pestering me for money, food or drugs
- Homeless people offering me drugs, probably to dope me up and then rape me
- A woman grabbing me and begging to dance with me, on the 4th of July, my co-workers had to intervene and we sped out of there very quickly
- A harmless-looking family asking me for directions, and then the father groping me with the mother seeing but turning a blind eye until I decided to run
- People in general following me, to which I've always taken refuge in the Target near my house or at my friend's apartment because fuck that shit

etc. etc. etc.

Not only that but my experiences with walking at night with girls vs walking at night with boys is drastically different. I could walk home with my female co-worker, both of us dressed modestly in uniforms and still get cat-called. But if I walk home with a male co-worker, then it's very rare that I run into trouble.


While yes, Women are far more likely to sexually assaulted, the trope is far overused when looking at the statistics. According to homicide statistics, 80% of people who are killed in homicides/ murder are men (US statistics) while many countries are closer to it being 90-99% of deaths being men.


That’s true men have a higher change of being assaulted/sexual assaulted
 
May 28, 3:37 AM

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Sphinxter said:
Aastra343 said:
@Sphinxter

Yeah, I agree, being with a guy won't stop a woman from getting shot, but that's the most extreme of cases, specially regarding Japan.

The thing women fear the most (from what I've gathered) is being sexually assaulted, not mugged. In that case, being with another person (it doesn't even have to be a man) will lessen the chances of being sexually assaulted (and even mugged, because overpowering two or more people is harder than just one girl, so the criminal will turn to easier targets).


Then why does it have to be a male? Why exactly one male? The way I see it the more the better and the gender isn't that relevant.

The reason why the focus is on getting exactly one male is because it's about gender roles and chivalry. If you get two males to walk you home it lessens the chivalric effect because they can't feel like a knight in a shining armor protecting a fair maiden that way.

I'm sure it helps just like many other things no one is doing help but that it's about this specific scenario shows to me that it's not about actually wanting to solve a problem but just about living up to cultural gender roles. It's a gendered cultural gesture like kissing a hand, just what one is supposed to do.

Yeah, most rapes are committed by people they know and are close to, but regarding rapists on the streets, which is a crime of chance, even walking with an umbrella (I remember reading it somewhere, I might look for it, if you want to) on their hand makes them less of a potential target.
This is indeed exaclty what I was going to mention.

All these parents that instill into their female children the idea that they need a male with them at night don't seem to all put any effort into making their female children safe against the potential of teachers or relatives sexually assaulting them which is the real danger because it's again about gender roles and chivalry. Just something one's supposed to do in those cultures like pulling a chair out.


As I said, it doesn't even have to be a man, just another human being is already an effective protection against wannabe perverts or harassers. Despite the "guy walks girl home" trope in anime (which is nothing more than a way to put the male romantic interest under a good light/leave the two alone), it's more than that. Time and time again, the following exchange can be seen even between two girls/in a group:
"This is where we part/Bye."
"Are you sure? I can walk you home."
"Yes, I can get home from here/I live closeby. Thank you."

I believe it's a matter of etiquette in Japan to offer to accompany someone to their home, even if the ones involved are all of the same gender.

I think we agree on most things, but still I get a feeling you think we don't lol. The thing I said about my stepmother earlier... She was born and raised in Latin America, in general a still pretty much conservative society, so I guess that's why she gets the notion it must be a man to protect a girl alone at night.

I personally don't agree with that. As long as it's not walking alone, anyone of trust is okay. As you said on other posts, even that person of trust is more statistically possible to take advantage of a girl than the chance rapist on the back alley. Still, that probably happens because women are more cautious about strangers (and therefore take more steps to protect themselves from them) than they are with friends/relatives/coworkers.
 
May 28, 3:53 AM

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Nerdanimefan1992 said:

That’s true men have a higher change of being assaulted/sexual assaulted

Well, the data I could find is from 2015 in the US and it says:
One in five women and one in 71 men will be raped at some point in their lives.[...]
91% of the victims of rape and sexual assault are female, and 9% are male.

So, I'd like to know where you got that statement from, if you got it from anywhere.
 
May 28, 4:12 AM

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It's just an excuse that the boy uses to be alone with the girl, hell, even she knows this and accepts it because it's romantic and somerthing could happen: maybe a kiss or a confession, telling a secret. Why would you decline that? I used it all the time in hi school.
"Even if there's a wide world and stories
beyond the main focus, I don't think
it's necessary to end with the protagonist having
been involved in everything." - Yagi Norihiro
 
May 28, 9:37 AM
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Idk, I think it's weird when it's the guy just forcing his 'protection' on the girl without even asking. Just feels like a condescending type of sexism paired with white knight fantasies and tricking the girl to be alone with him. And who knows, maybe he's the creep that she needs protection from. If I was a girl I would not go home alone with guys who aggressively want to go home with me alone even when I never asked for it, unless I already know them very well, like family or an actual boyfriend.

There's nothing wrong with a girl not feeling safe along at night, plenty of anecdotes from literally any female justify that, and asking for an escort home is not an issue either, but it should be the girl who's asking, not the guy just assuming and forcing his 'help' on her even when there is no sign that she is worried. At least that's how I feel, I always cringe a little when the guys in anime just do it without even asking, without caring how the girl feels. I'd hate that being done to me, the default assumption being that I need a babysitter.


On a sidenote I do find it a bit amusing how scared some people in this thread seem to be of homeless people and junkies. I constantly get asked for money or drugs when I'm on the street, it doesn't even have to be night for that. The worst thing that ever happened was being forced to buy some shitty drugs at knifepoint basically, and that was pretty much a rarity. Usually I just see these encounters as annoying, but not scary. They're just fucked up people, most of them so fucked up that anyone could probably outrun them quite easily if it came to that. Alcoholics, drug addicts, hustlers. They're more pitiful than scary tbh.

Listen, everybody wants change, don't nobody want to change though
don't nobody want to pray, till they got something to pray for
now everybody's gonna die, but don't everybody live though
 
May 28, 11:10 AM

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Aastra343 said:
Sphinxter said:


Then why does it have to be a male? Why exactly one male? The way I see it the more the better and the gender isn't that relevant.

The reason why the focus is on getting exactly one male is because it's about gender roles and chivalry. If you get two males to walk you home it lessens the chivalric effect because they can't feel like a knight in a shining armor protecting a fair maiden that way.

I'm sure it helps just like many other things no one is doing help but that it's about this specific scenario shows to me that it's not about actually wanting to solve a problem but just about living up to cultural gender roles. It's a gendered cultural gesture like kissing a hand, just what one is supposed to do.

This is indeed exaclty what I was going to mention.

All these parents that instill into their female children the idea that they need a male with them at night don't seem to all put any effort into making their female children safe against the potential of teachers or relatives sexually assaulting them which is the real danger because it's again about gender roles and chivalry. Just something one's supposed to do in those cultures like pulling a chair out.


As I said, it doesn't even have to be a man, just another human being is already an effective protection against wannabe perverts or harassers. Despite the "guy walks girl home" trope in anime (which is nothing more than a way to put the male romantic interest under a good light/leave the two alone), it's more than that. Time and time again, the following exchange can be seen even between two girls/in a group:
"This is where we part/Bye."
"Are you sure? I can walk you home."
"Yes, I can get home from here/I live closeby. Thank you."

I believe it's a matter of etiquette in Japan to offer to accompany someone to their home, even if the ones involved are all of the same gender.

I think we agree on most things, but still I get a feeling you think we don't lol. The thing I said about my stepmother earlier... She was born and raised in Latin America, in general a still pretty much conservative society, so I guess that's why she gets the notion it must be a man to protect a girl alone at night.

I personally don't agree with that. As long as it's not walking alone, anyone of trust is okay. As you said on other posts, even that person of trust is more statistically possible to take advantage of a girl than the chance rapist on the back alley. Still, that probably happens because women are more cautious about strangers (and therefore take more steps to protect themselves from them) than they are with friends/relatives/coworkers.
Well as I replied to someone else here if it's not a gender thing I don't have as much objections as I normally would but I still think it's paranoid in the same way I think a man who's afraid of dying from terrorism but not by being hit by a car is paranoid.

There seem to be a couple of culturally ingrained things that are often not that likely to happen that men are exceedingly afraid and take wild præcautions not to be struck by contrasting their often callous disregard for the events that are actually more probable. Like citizens of nations standing in line left and right to surrender their civil liberties to combat terrorism whilst they're fairly indifferent about making their roads saver which præsents them with far more lethal risks.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if having another with you increases your chance of dying simply because it's easier to get hit by a car be one distracted from conversing with said other.

It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate".

— Bertrand Russell
 
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