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Poll: JoJo no Kimyou na Bouken Part 5: Ougon no Kaze Episode 30 Discussion


May 19, 9:00 AM
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he dosent need help from anyone realy
black sabbath dead if it wasnt for koichi
soft machine dead if it wasnt for bruno
greatful dead and beach boy bruno and mista saved him
clash and talking head dead if narancia didnt save him
white album mista saved him
Modified by Barnald, May 21, 7:31 AM
 
May 19, 9:02 AM

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R3K_ said:
CondemneDio said:
Giorno rarely needs help from anyone.

>Black Sabbath - he literally says that Koichi's power was the exact thing he needed to win
>The Grateful Dead - unable to fight
>White Album - he worked with Mista and they complement each other
>Clash and Talking Head - Narancia had to do the job
>Notorious B.I.G - Trish did
>Green Day and Oasis - Bruno and Mista works with him

The obnly fight he solo'ed was Baby Face, and Man in the Mirrorr... kinda.

First, he was hated by the group.

Uhm, what.

And that's because Araki wanted the other characters to have moments too, most probably.
Any other problem they have gets cleared by Giorno with no difficulty.

Do you not remember how Giorno was welcomed into the gang?
 
May 19, 9:05 AM

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CondemneDio said:
And that's because Araki wanted the other characters to have moments too, most probably.
Any other problem they have gets cleared by Giorno with no difficulty.

So... he NEEDS help.

Do you not remember how Giorno was welcomed into the gang?

Yes, only Abbachio hated him. The rest was like... "ok, a new member, let's make fun of him!"... is that hatred? lol
 
May 19, 9:08 AM

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R3K_ said:
CondemneDio said:
And that's because Araki wanted the other characters to have moments too, most probably.
Any other problem they have gets cleared by Giorno with no difficulty.

So... he NEEDS help.

Do you not remember how Giorno was welcomed into the gang?

Yes, only Abbachio hated him. The rest was like... "ok, a new member, let's make fun of him!"... is that hatred? lol

Yes, sometimes. Even Jotaro needed help, and I don't think you're saying he is not a Gary Stu for it, right?

Indifference is not love, so my point stands.
 
May 19, 9:13 AM

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CondemneDio said:
R3K_ said:

So... he NEEDS help.


Yes, only Abbachio hated him. The rest was like... "ok, a new member, let's make fun of him!"... is that hatred? lol

Yes, sometimes. Even Jotaro needed help, and I don't think you're saying he is not a Gary Stu for it, right?

Indifference is not love, so my point stands.

So, for you, people only hate or love somebody? Nothing in between? lol

Jotaro literally solo'ed: Dark Blue Moon, Strength, Yellow Temperance, Wheel of Fortune, Enya, High Priestess, Geb (kind of), Anubis, Set and D'Arby the Gambler.
 
May 19, 9:14 AM
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CondemneDio said:
Modernoir said:

You're using the term "gary stu", a term which is used to call out objective traits in the writing of a character to be weak. Not only that but you're not even backing up your points in the slightest. The "muh opinion" argument is such a big cop-out it's unreal, why make vague blanket criticisms to begin with if you're not going to push them beyond the letterbox and actually make a case? That way people could at least see where you're coming from, when you instead turn-tail completely at being called out for being wrong (which has been done by multiple posters on this one page I might add) you contribute nothing.
Also I slept in all day so a snickers sounds good.

To appease your sand-filled vagina, let's go over some Gary Stu traits.

Perfect hero who can do no wrong: check. Giorno is basically portrayed the second coming of Jesus.
Good looks; check. If you can forgive the croissant black holes stuck to his hair.
Talented; check. Giorno rarely needs help from anyone. In fact, he can boss around adults because he is more talented than people 10 or 20 years older than him.
No flaws; check. Giorno can do no wrong. This is also a part of a bigger problem. Giorno really has very little personality to begin with, let alone flaws that would make him a believable character.
Loved by everyone; check, kinda. First, he was hated by the group. He showed a fraction of his Jesus powers, and they all think he is the best thing since sliced bread (with the sole exception of lip-stick policeman).
All the character has took them no effort; check. Giorno's destiny was to become something greater than a commoner. His stand power is what amplifies this.

You're probably going to disagree with these points, and feel free to.

>Perfect hero who can do no wrong: check. Giorno is basically portrayed the second coming of Jesus.
Yes of course, because right from the start he was treated as a saint by everyone right? That's why the group gave him the cold-shoulder at the start and why Abba pissed in a cup to greet him right? The only person to actually give Gio the benefit of the doubt from the start was Mista and that's because he's just a great guy in general. Giorno had to earn Fugo's respect in the MiTM fight by being ballsy, he gained Narancia's approval from defending him numerous times in arguments and by directly assisting him in the Clash/Talking Heads fight, and even Abbacchio who goes completely against what you're saying dies without ever verbally expressing his approval to Giorno (but hints at it since he kept that last piece of stone in his hand so that Giorno could trace its origins back to the stone replica he created. It was subtle, but a really nice end to the back-and-forth relationship the two had). Gio isn't literally portrayed as Jesus (despite the biblical imagery here and there), he's a Joestar taking on the role of an actual leader rather than a reactionary protag like the others. That isn't inherently bad.
>Good looks; check. If you can forgive the croissant black holes stuck to his hair.
So, every JoJo then?
>Talented; check. Giorno rarely needs help from anyone. In fact, he can boss around adults because he is more talented than people 10 or 20 years older than him.
Did we watch the same anime? Do you not recall the countless times Giorno has been incapacitated or left useless in a fight? Being deflated in Soft Machine to rely on Abba to solve the mystery, being completely incapacitated in Grateful Dead/Beach Boy, getting his shit royally pushed in in White Album (A stand that might as well have been a direct counter to his ability to create life, if it weren't for Mista Giorno would've been completely useless), or how about the time he was completely incapacitated in Clash/Talking Head and had to put his full faith in Narancia to defeat Squallo and Tiziano? He's talented, but so are all JoJo's. Seriously. Joseph, Jotaro and Josuke play some 4D chess numerous times in their parts, and besides, Giorno takes plenty of shit at the start and it only stops because he proves to the group that he's worth taking seriously. That's called character growth.
>No flaws; check. Giorno can do no wrong. This is also a part of a bigger problem. Giorno really has very little personality to begin with, let alone flaws that would make him a believable character.
The more you go in the more it sounds like you haven't even been watching the show. Giorno can do plenty wrong, him using himself to force Abba into using his Stand was by all means a ridiculously risky move but it paid off, unlike later on like in White Album where he makes reckless decisions under pressure like driving the car into the canal (gee, taking a Stand user who's abilities revolve around ice under water? Sasuga Giorno) which was only salvaged by Mista and their combined efforts after. Not only that but he fucks up at the moments he SHOULD be perfect for, his Stand could potentially save anyone but he's not only fucked up once but twice with Bruno and Abbacchio. I don't know how you can see his reaction to Abba's death and the denial he exclaims when Bruno tells Giorno he was too late in saving him in the car and then tell me Gio has no personality traits that make him human.
>Loved by everyone; check, kinda. First, he was hated by the group. He showed a fraction of his Jesus powers, and they all think he is the best thing since sliced bread (with the sole exception of lip-stick policeman).
You literally debunk yourself in the first line of this complaint. He wasn't loved by everyone at the start, he had to earn his way to be trusted by the members of Bruno's gang, and even then all the way until the end Abba was disapproving/tsundere towards him. What is your complaint? That it's unreasonable for a gang to actually want to get along to efficiently work together? Of course the group will like Giorno by the end, he demonstrated enough qualities as a leader to inspire them while also showing his full trust in his teammates by leaving his life in the hands of them several times.
>All the character has took them no effort; check. Giorno's destiny was to become something greater than a commoner. His stand power is what amplifies this.
That was never just Giorno's destiny though. This was explained in the 2nd episode mate, his life started at the bottom of the barrel until by chance he met and saved a wounded gangster on the street just because the man seemed as lonely as him. The act of kindness he gave resulted in his life being changed for the better all thanks to that man, and it makes perfect sense why that gangster inspired him to follow his dream. He knew first-hand just how shit Italy was thanks to his experience growing up in it, does it not make sense that he'd pursue a dream to fix it? He wouldn't have gotten anywhere in the gang if he'd went solo, as shown by the numerous times throughout the part where he would've fuckin' died if he was on his own.

I disagree with everything you've had to say but I'm at least glad you went into detail this time. I'd honestly advise you to give this part and Giorno more of an open chance, I'm not sure where you got these thoughts from when most of them are easily disprovable/don't make too much sense, but hey there's 9 more eps left so who knows maybe you'll like him a bit better by the end. Or not. Not every part in the series is for everyone, I just hope you can see that a lot of your criticisms apply far more to other characters in the series than Giorno.
 
May 19, 9:14 AM
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CondemneDio said:
WorldoverHeaven said:

im not making clown of myself english is my second language and im bad at spelling and gramar it you whos making a clown of yourself

It's a second language to me too, and that's why I make doubly sure to make my points clean, well-written, and straight to the point.

I think we're done here.

you mean like not knowing what gary stu is and when people call you out you just post some uslelest stuff with no evidence yeah i think we are done here
 
May 19, 9:15 AM

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R3K_ said:
CondemneDio said:

Yes, sometimes. Even Jotaro needed help, and I don't think you're saying he is not a Gary Stu for it, right?

Indifference is not love, so my point stands.

So, for you, people only hate or love somebody? Nothing in between? lol

Jotaro literally solo'ed: Dark Blue Moon, Strength, Yellow Temperance, Wheel of Fortune, Enya, High Priestess, Geb (kind of), Anubis, Set and D'Arby the Gambler.

?
You misunderstood me most probably.
Hate, love, and indifference in a spectrum. Being indifferent about someone is neither love nor hate.

We could go on and count the percentages of how many foes each offending Jojo soloes, but that's a bit of a fruitless labor really.
 
May 19, 9:18 AM
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Posts: 474
CondemneDio said:
R3K_ said:

>Black Sabbath - he literally says that Koichi's power was the exact thing he needed to win
>The Grateful Dead - unable to fight
>White Album - he worked with Mista and they complement each other
>Clash and Talking Head - Narancia had to do the job
>Notorious B.I.G - Trish did
>Green Day and Oasis - Bruno and Mista works with him

The obnly fight he solo'ed was Baby Face, and Man in the Mirrorr... kinda.


Uhm, what.

And that's because Araki wanted the other characters to have moments too, most probably.
Any other problem they have gets cleared by Giorno with no difficulty.

Do you not remember how Giorno was welcomed into the gang?

Now this is just ridiculous. You can't call other people stupid then make bottom-of-the-barrel arguments like "Y-Yeah Giorno could've cleared every fight on his own!" despite it being proven in those exact fucking fights he'd have been rendered useless if it weren't for his teammates, as if you know better than the writer of the part himself. Are you just digging for excuses to rip on the character or something? Why are you so obsessed with labelling characters as gary stus? Can you not take a character on their own merits? Do you have to rely on buzzwords because nuance is a concept you can't understand? If you're really this unwilling to see how many times your criticisms have been invalidated by actual evidence then we're done here, I think you've embarrassed yourself in this thread enough after all. It's like arguing with someone who's only thoughts on Golden Wind come from them skim-reading meme criticisms on 4chan JoJo threads lmfao
 
May 19, 9:22 AM

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CondemneDio said:
R3K_ said:

So, for you, people only hate or love somebody? Nothing in between? lol

Jotaro literally solo'ed: Dark Blue Moon, Strength, Yellow Temperance, Wheel of Fortune, Enya, High Priestess, Geb (kind of), Anubis, Set and D'Arby the Gambler.

?
You misunderstood me most probably.
Hate, love, and indifference in a spectrum. Being indifferent about someone is neither love nor hate.

We could go on and count the percentages of how many foes each offending Jojo soloes, but that's a bit of a fruitless labor really.

"First, we was hated by the group." You literally said that lol

Also, you were the one that said Giorno didn't need help, I demonstrate he did, you answered a laughable "Araki wanted the other characters to have moments too" "even Jotaro needed help", and I showed the difference.

Some people here are kind of too defensive about your criticism, but you're not so different now.
 
May 19, 9:26 AM

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Modernoir said:
CondemneDio said:

To appease your sand-filled vagina, let's go over some Gary Stu traits.

Perfect hero who can do no wrong: check. Giorno is basically portrayed the second coming of Jesus.
Good looks; check. If you can forgive the croissant black holes stuck to his hair.
Talented; check. Giorno rarely needs help from anyone. In fact, he can boss around adults because he is more talented than people 10 or 20 years older than him.
No flaws; check. Giorno can do no wrong. This is also a part of a bigger problem. Giorno really has very little personality to begin with, let alone flaws that would make him a believable character.
Loved by everyone; check, kinda. First, he was hated by the group. He showed a fraction of his Jesus powers, and they all think he is the best thing since sliced bread (with the sole exception of lip-stick policeman).
All the character has took them no effort; check. Giorno's destiny was to become something greater than a commoner. His stand power is what amplifies this.

You're probably going to disagree with these points, and feel free to.

>Perfect hero who can do no wrong: check. Giorno is basically portrayed the second coming of Jesus.
Yes of course, because right from the start he was treated as a saint by everyone right? That's why the group gave him the cold-shoulder at the start and why Abba pissed in a cup to greet him right? The only person to actually give Gio the benefit of the doubt from the start was Mista and that's because he's just a great guy in general. Giorno had to earn Fugo's respect in the MiTM fight by being ballsy, he gained Narancia's approval from defending him numerous times in arguments and by directly assisting him in the Clash/Talking Heads fight, and even Abbacchio who goes completely against what you're saying dies without ever verbally expressing his approval to Giorno (but hints at it since he kept that last piece of stone in his hand so that Giorno could trace its origins back to the stone replica he created. It was subtle, but a really nice end to the back-and-forth relationship the two had). Gio isn't literally portrayed as Jesus (despite the biblical imagery here and there), he's a Joestar taking on the role of an actual leader rather than a reactionary protag like the others. That isn't inherently bad.
>Good looks; check. If you can forgive the croissant black holes stuck to his hair.
So, every JoJo then?
>Talented; check. Giorno rarely needs help from anyone. In fact, he can boss around adults because he is more talented than people 10 or 20 years older than him.
Did we watch the same anime? Do you not recall the countless times Giorno has been incapacitated or left useless in a fight? Being deflated in Soft Machine to rely on Abba to solve the mystery, being completely incapacitated in Grateful Dead/Beach Boy, getting his shit royally pushed in in White Album (A stand that might as well have been a direct counter to his ability to create life, if it weren't for Mista Giorno would've been completely useless), or how about the time he was completely incapacitated in Clash/Talking Head and had to put his full faith in Narancia to defeat Squallo and Tiziano? He's talented, but so are all JoJo's. Seriously. Joseph, Jotaro and Josuke play some 4D chess numerous times in their parts, and besides, Giorno takes plenty of shit at the start and it only stops because he proves to the group that he's worth taking seriously. That's called character growth.
>No flaws; check. Giorno can do no wrong. This is also a part of a bigger problem. Giorno really has very little personality to begin with, let alone flaws that would make him a believable character.
The more you go in the more it sounds like you haven't even been watching the show. Giorno can do plenty wrong, him using himself to force Abba into using his Stand was by all means a ridiculously risky move but it paid off, unlike later on like in White Album where he makes reckless decisions under pressure like driving the car into the canal (gee, taking a Stand user who's abilities revolve around ice under water? Sasuga Giorno) which was only salvaged by Mista and their combined efforts after. Not only that but he fucks up at the moments he SHOULD be perfect for, his Stand could potentially save anyone but he's not only fucked up once but twice with Bruno and Abbacchio. I don't know how you can see his reaction to Abba's death and the denial he exclaims when Bruno tells Giorno he was too late in saving him in the car and then tell me Gio has no personality traits that make him human.
>Loved by everyone; check, kinda. First, he was hated by the group. He showed a fraction of his Jesus powers, and they all think he is the best thing since sliced bread (with the sole exception of lip-stick policeman).
You literally debunk yourself in the first line of this complaint. He wasn't loved by everyone at the start, he had to earn his way to be trusted by the members of Bruno's gang, and even then all the way until the end Abba was disapproving/tsundere towards him. What is your complaint? That it's unreasonable for a gang to actually want to get along to efficiently work together? Of course the group will like Giorno by the end, he demonstrated enough qualities as a leader to inspire them while also showing his full trust in his teammates by leaving his life in the hands of them several times.
>All the character has took them no effort; check. Giorno's destiny was to become something greater than a commoner. His stand power is what amplifies this.
That was never just Giorno's destiny though. This was explained in the 2nd episode mate, his life started at the bottom of the barrel until by chance he met and saved a wounded gangster on the street just because the man seemed as lonely as him. The act of kindness he gave resulted in his life being changed for the better all thanks to that man, and it makes perfect sense why that gangster inspired him to follow his dream. He knew first-hand just how shit Italy was thanks to his experience growing up in it, does it not make sense that he'd pursue a dream to fix it? He wouldn't have gotten anywhere in the gang if he'd went solo, as shown by the numerous times throughout the part where he would've fuckin' died if he was on his own.

I disagree with everything you've had to say but I'm at least glad you went into detail this time. I'd honestly advise you to give this part and Giorno more of an open chance, I'm not sure where you got these thoughts from when most of them are easily disprovable/don't make too much sense, but hey there's 9 more eps left so who knows maybe you'll like him a bit better by the end. Or not. Not every part in the series is for everyone, I just hope you can see that a lot of your criticisms apply far more to other characters in the series than Giorno.

About the perfect hero part: I wasn't referring to how the world inside the anime reacts to him. We see very early on how he is a saint, he has super powers, and we see him doing good things.

Almost every Jojo is a Gary Stu to some degree. The only ones I would exempt are probably parts 4, 7 and 8.

Giorno is a key factor in most conflicts, and outside of conflicts too. He either takes out enemies, or gives information/clues to the other members of the gang.

I'll re-word this one a bit for you: any mistakes Giorno makes have no real consequences. Another part of this is flaws of personality, which he basically does not have.

Not every Gary Stu character has to meet every crtieria at the start of their character arc.

It's pretty pointless to speculate about what Giorno would've done had he not become a ganster. Just my opinion.

It's good to see someone here is not so quick to fling insults at me and have actual conversations. I already gave it a chance years ago when I read it, not my favorite part. Watching the anime version really makes the bad points stick out to me.
And as I think I've made clear at this point, many character in Jojo are Gary Stus. Giorno included, and one of the most egregious examples too.
 
May 19, 9:29 AM

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Modernoir said:
CondemneDio said:

And that's because Araki wanted the other characters to have moments too, most probably.
Any other problem they have gets cleared by Giorno with no difficulty.

Do you not remember how Giorno was welcomed into the gang?

Now this is just ridiculous. You can't call other people stupid then make bottom-of-the-barrel arguments like "Y-Yeah Giorno could've cleared every fight on his own!" despite it being proven in those exact fucking fights he'd have been rendered useless if it weren't for his teammates, as if you know better than the writer of the part himself. Are you just digging for excuses to rip on the character or something? Why are you so obsessed with labelling characters as gary stus? Can you not take a character on their own merits? Do you have to rely on buzzwords because nuance is a concept you can't understand? If you're really this unwilling to see how many times your criticisms have been invalidated by actual evidence then we're done here, I think you've embarrassed yourself in this thread enough after all. It's like arguing with someone who's only thoughts on Golden Wind come from them skim-reading meme criticisms on 4chan JoJo threads lmfao

I'll pretend I did not see this one, since I thought you were a bit more civilized. Take a chill pill.

R3K_ said:
CondemneDio said:

?
You misunderstood me most probably.
Hate, love, and indifference in a spectrum. Being indifferent about someone is neither love nor hate.

We could go on and count the percentages of how many foes each offending Jojo soloes, but that's a bit of a fruitless labor really.

"First, we was hated by the group." You literally said that lol

Also, you were the one that said Giorno didn't need help, I demonstrate he did, you answered a laughable "Araki wanted the other characters to have moments too" "even Jotaro needed help", and I showed the difference.

Some people here are kind of too defensive about your criticism, but you're not so different now.

Then I propose you read it as I meant it. Indifferent, not hate. you happy?

Jotaro and Giorno are both Gary Stus. This is about as much as your posts up to this poitn have managed to prove.
 
May 19, 9:29 AM
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Posts: 474
CondemneDio said:
Modernoir said:

>Perfect hero who can do no wrong: check. Giorno is basically portrayed the second coming of Jesus.
Yes of course, because right from the start he was treated as a saint by everyone right? That's why the group gave him the cold-shoulder at the start and why Abba pissed in a cup to greet him right? The only person to actually give Gio the benefit of the doubt from the start was Mista and that's because he's just a great guy in general. Giorno had to earn Fugo's respect in the MiTM fight by being ballsy, he gained Narancia's approval from defending him numerous times in arguments and by directly assisting him in the Clash/Talking Heads fight, and even Abbacchio who goes completely against what you're saying dies without ever verbally expressing his approval to Giorno (but hints at it since he kept that last piece of stone in his hand so that Giorno could trace its origins back to the stone replica he created. It was subtle, but a really nice end to the back-and-forth relationship the two had). Gio isn't literally portrayed as Jesus (despite the biblical imagery here and there), he's a Joestar taking on the role of an actual leader rather than a reactionary protag like the others. That isn't inherently bad.
>Good looks; check. If you can forgive the croissant black holes stuck to his hair.
So, every JoJo then?
>Talented; check. Giorno rarely needs help from anyone. In fact, he can boss around adults because he is more talented than people 10 or 20 years older than him.
Did we watch the same anime? Do you not recall the countless times Giorno has been incapacitated or left useless in a fight? Being deflated in Soft Machine to rely on Abba to solve the mystery, being completely incapacitated in Grateful Dead/Beach Boy, getting his shit royally pushed in in White Album (A stand that might as well have been a direct counter to his ability to create life, if it weren't for Mista Giorno would've been completely useless), or how about the time he was completely incapacitated in Clash/Talking Head and had to put his full faith in Narancia to defeat Squallo and Tiziano? He's talented, but so are all JoJo's. Seriously. Joseph, Jotaro and Josuke play some 4D chess numerous times in their parts, and besides, Giorno takes plenty of shit at the start and it only stops because he proves to the group that he's worth taking seriously. That's called character growth.
>No flaws; check. Giorno can do no wrong. This is also a part of a bigger problem. Giorno really has very little personality to begin with, let alone flaws that would make him a believable character.
The more you go in the more it sounds like you haven't even been watching the show. Giorno can do plenty wrong, him using himself to force Abba into using his Stand was by all means a ridiculously risky move but it paid off, unlike later on like in White Album where he makes reckless decisions under pressure like driving the car into the canal (gee, taking a Stand user who's abilities revolve around ice under water? Sasuga Giorno) which was only salvaged by Mista and their combined efforts after. Not only that but he fucks up at the moments he SHOULD be perfect for, his Stand could potentially save anyone but he's not only fucked up once but twice with Bruno and Abbacchio. I don't know how you can see his reaction to Abba's death and the denial he exclaims when Bruno tells Giorno he was too late in saving him in the car and then tell me Gio has no personality traits that make him human.
>Loved by everyone; check, kinda. First, he was hated by the group. He showed a fraction of his Jesus powers, and they all think he is the best thing since sliced bread (with the sole exception of lip-stick policeman).
You literally debunk yourself in the first line of this complaint. He wasn't loved by everyone at the start, he had to earn his way to be trusted by the members of Bruno's gang, and even then all the way until the end Abba was disapproving/tsundere towards him. What is your complaint? That it's unreasonable for a gang to actually want to get along to efficiently work together? Of course the group will like Giorno by the end, he demonstrated enough qualities as a leader to inspire them while also showing his full trust in his teammates by leaving his life in the hands of them several times.
>All the character has took them no effort; check. Giorno's destiny was to become something greater than a commoner. His stand power is what amplifies this.
That was never just Giorno's destiny though. This was explained in the 2nd episode mate, his life started at the bottom of the barrel until by chance he met and saved a wounded gangster on the street just because the man seemed as lonely as him. The act of kindness he gave resulted in his life being changed for the better all thanks to that man, and it makes perfect sense why that gangster inspired him to follow his dream. He knew first-hand just how shit Italy was thanks to his experience growing up in it, does it not make sense that he'd pursue a dream to fix it? He wouldn't have gotten anywhere in the gang if he'd went solo, as shown by the numerous times throughout the part where he would've fuckin' died if he was on his own.

I disagree with everything you've had to say but I'm at least glad you went into detail this time. I'd honestly advise you to give this part and Giorno more of an open chance, I'm not sure where you got these thoughts from when most of them are easily disprovable/don't make too much sense, but hey there's 9 more eps left so who knows maybe you'll like him a bit better by the end. Or not. Not every part in the series is for everyone, I just hope you can see that a lot of your criticisms apply far more to other characters in the series than Giorno.

About the perfect hero part: I wasn't referring to how the world inside the anime reacts to him. We see very early on how he is a saint, he has super powers, and we see him doing good things.

Almost every Jojo is a Gary Stu to some degree. The only ones I would exempt are probably parts 4, 7 and 8.

Giorno is a key factor in most conflicts, and outside of conflicts too. He either takes out enemies, or gives information/clues to the other members of the gang.

I'll re-word this one a bit for you: any mistakes Giorno makes have no real consequences. Another part of this is flaws of personality, which he basically does not have.

Not every Gary Stu character has to meet every crtieria at the start of their character arc.

It's pretty pointless to speculate about what Giorno would've done had he not become a ganster. Just my opinion.

It's good to see someone here is not so quick to fling insults at me and have actual conversations. I already gave it a chance years ago when I read it, not my favorite part. Watching the anime version really makes the bad points stick out to me.
And as I think I've made clear at this point, many character in Jojo are Gary Stus. Giorno included, and one of the most egregious examples too.

Disregard my last post then, I was too defensive in calling you out like that. I can see where you're coming from to some extent but I think in general you should stop being so reliant on the phrase "gary stu". If you generalize characters by sweeping traits used to criticize them you lose out on their individual nuances. I don't think any JoJo is a gary stu because they're all genuinely interesting characters in one way or another that have numerous bits to them that make them human (Jotaro's autistic tendencies like ringing doorbells/being so infatuated with the sea and giving one-liners, Giorno yearning to go back home for some pizza etc). I just don't like seeing people rip into what I think is good writing without at least giving things a bit of a chance if that makes sense? But in the end this is an agree-to-disagree manner. Thank you for actually going through with the conversation.
 
May 19, 11:40 AM
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found some people in this thread talking about the poor animation ? personally it looked pretty much like the other episodes and haven't really found any proof of their statement from anywhere. but really cant wait to for the next episode to show girono's personality to towards a person such as cioccolata and the mudas
 
May 19, 1:32 PM
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damn now it's confirmed that he is dead.It was obvious but the confirmation still hurts.
 
May 19, 3:38 PM
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CondemneDio said:
R3K_ said:

>Black Sabbath - he literally says that Koichi's power was the exact thing he needed to win
>The Grateful Dead - unable to fight
>White Album - he worked with Mista and they complement each other
>Clash and Talking Head - Narancia had to do the job
>Notorious B.I.G - Trish did
>Green Day and Oasis - Bruno and Mista works with him

The obnly fight he solo'ed was Baby Face, and Man in the Mirrorr... kinda.


Uhm, what.

And that's because Araki wanted the other characters to have moments too, most probably.
Any other problem they have gets cleared by Giorno with no difficulty.

Do you not remember how Giorno was welcomed into the gang?

Those are the majority of the fights he is in though. The other fights are soloed by the other gang members or only involve villains. I honestly don't know how you can honestly say completely seriously that a character that is completely absent from fights or if he is present needs help to win it 90% of the time. The other users basically listed every fight Giorno has even a passing influence in and most of them he either messed up and needed help or was completely useless from the start of the fight. So again, how is he a Gary Stu that wins every fight he is a part of without difficulty.

And yeah he was welcomed. Bruno, the boss, introduced him. Why wouldn't they welcome him? He's a coworker. Even then Abbacchio doesn't like him for a majority of the part like many workplace environments.
Modified by darkstom248, May 19, 3:42 PM
 
May 19, 11:23 PM

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darkstom248 said:
CondemneDio said:

And that's because Araki wanted the other characters to have moments too, most probably.
Any other problem they have gets cleared by Giorno with no difficulty.

Do you not remember how Giorno was welcomed into the gang?

Those are the majority of the fights he is in though. The other fights are soloed by the other gang members or only involve villains. I honestly don't know how you can honestly say completely seriously that a character that is completely absent from fights or if he is present needs help to win it 90% of the time. The other users basically listed every fight Giorno has even a passing influence in and most of them he either messed up and needed help or was completely useless from the start of the fight. So again, how is he a Gary Stu that wins every fight he is a part of without difficulty.

And yeah he was welcomed. Bruno, the boss, introduced him. Why wouldn't they welcome him? He's a coworker. Even then Abbacchio doesn't like him for a majority of the part like many workplace environments.

Gary Stus need help too, this was established with Jotaro before.
 
May 20, 2:30 AM

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@Comander-07

It's not a right or wrong situation. It almost never is in cinemá, you either feel it or not.
 
May 20, 7:18 AM

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This episode was good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good! The combination of Cioccolata and Secco's stands are just insane. Giorno discovered the truth about Bruno.
 
May 20, 12:02 PM
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Amazing episode. Animation, voice acting, ost, everything. This is one of my favs and I think episode 31 will be even more amazing, I hope they don't screw it, we've all been waiting for it.
Oasis compatibility with Green Day makes this stand group one of the most powerful I've seen in JoJo, unlucky for then that Buccellati isn't affected due to that sad truth. Talking about Bruno, that moment when he decided to jump was so amazingly well done, it's one of the best scenes in all of the part 5 anime. The ost pause and then change, animation, even the "Ari Ari Ari Arrivederci" (in my opinion this was so much better than the first one, I absolutely love it!!). It all made this scene so incredible, I have really high hopes for that one scene that's coming.
Enough Bruno, now about Giorno and Mista. That one really gay scene... damn... I loved it, if the episode wasn't good enough, that made it even better imo.
I can't wait for the next episode, all this hype makes me want to watch it right now...
Anyways, 11/10 episode, time to watch fan made videos and hope DP doesn't screw ep 31
 
May 20, 12:24 PM

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Shoryuuken said:
@Comander-07

It's not a right or wrong situation. It almost never is in cinemá, you either feel it or not.
What has that to do with your original reply? Are you one of those people who think different people cant come to the same conclusion and therefore have the same opinion?
"This emotion is mine alone.
It is for Madoka alone." - Homura
or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica.
 
May 20, 12:49 PM
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I have no idea why people are arguing here, mal sure gotten bad these days

I'm personally enjoying this part but if some people aren't enjoying then it's completely fine. Jojo parts are separated for a reason so they can be enjoy differently and in the end it's all about opinion.
Modified by ExodiaX, May 20, 1:04 PM
 
May 20, 1:16 PM

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The animation in this episode seemed a bit mediocre compared to the other recent episodes but I guess DP are saving their budget for next weeks "I wonder how long 7 pages could be" MUDA.
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May 20, 3:26 PM
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I always come to MAL and look at comments before watching episode thinking: "This episode gonna suck according to some of these ppl" and the opposite is always true *facepalm*
 
May 20, 4:34 PM

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R3K_ said:
Uhm, what.
How exactly was he hated?


He gets hazed by everyone when he first meets the gang. Everyone except Abbacchio gets over really fast, though.
 
May 20, 4:59 PM
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Hobgoblin2099 said:
R3K_ said:
Uhm, what.
How exactly was he hated?


He gets hazed by everyone when he first meets the gang. Everyone except Abbacchio gets over really fast, though.

i mean besides abba who hated him and mista who was good with him the rest were pretty ok with giorno
fugo started respecting him after man in the mirror and naran after clash and talking head
 
May 20, 5:21 PM

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HEEEEEEEEEEELL Bucciarati was all along a walking corpse...I like him, heck Boss... The talk in the car was brilliant, it was so awesome. Good episode.
 
May 20, 8:45 PM

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Hobgoblin2099 said:
R3K_ said:
Uhm, what.
How exactly was he hated?


He gets hazed by everyone when he first meets the gang. Everyone except Abbacchio gets over really fast, though.

How is that hatred?
 
May 21, 7:47 AM
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Thread cleaned

Removed baiting and insults
 
May 21, 6:41 PM

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"Good Good Good Good Good Good Good Good Good Good Good Good Good Good Good Good" 🤣🤣 This is me and my dog 🤣

Chocolate Shake filming & enjoying the horror expressions on people's faces is both comical and lunatic.

Damn, this fight is gonna be even more awesome! It's a big advantage that Bucciarati can't be "molded".

Trish seems to be developing a crush on Bucci there. ~ Or that she's yearning for some fatherly affection from him. But then if she only saw him as a fatherly figure then she wouldn't be so upset that he "forgot" to ask how she was, right?

The scene in the car: 😭 Just as I thought, it is Gold Experience that keeps Bucci going. It took Gornio 10 episodes to figure out that Bucci is dead :(

The split-screen close up of Bucciarati and Giorno: Giorno is ready to take over as the leader once Bucci is gone. And Bucciarati trusts him.
 
May 23, 8:46 AM

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Doctor and Patient, Director and Cameraman, Master and Pet; Cioccolata and Secco are absolutely perfect for each other! Their Stands complement each other flawlessly with Oasis further making Green Day's mass-murdering ability even deadlier by dragging down everything around him with his bizarre power. Secco's really sharp as well for someone who looks and acts brainwashed and brain dead at the same time, pointing out how weird it was when Bruno dived down and Ari-Ari'd him without any moldy consequences.

Bruno took a gamble and jumped down from a very high place to ambush Secco and it shows that he's actually aware of his undead condition, confirming Giorno's worst fears. Gold Experience didn't heal him on time before he died after all but he healed his body just in time to make it barely habitable for his soul to reside in for who knows how long.

Giorno and Mista had shared another no homo GioSta moment and successfully restrained that bioweapon of a helicopter too! The visuals of the episode looked absolutely gorgeous, especially the shots of Giorno in the car~








 
May 23, 9:55 PM

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DP is just hitting all the right notes. Torture dance went beyond my expectations so I'm really hope they deliver next ep with the
 
May 26, 6:19 AM

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Comander-07 said:
Shoryuuken said:
@Comander-07

It's not a right or wrong situation. It almost never is in cinemá, you either feel it or not.
What has that to do with your original reply? Are you one of those people who think different people cant come to the same conclusion and therefore have the same opinion?

Sorry, didn't feel like responding to baseless assumptions.
 
May 26, 2:52 PM

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Shoryuuken said:
Comander-07 said:
What has that to do with your original reply? Are you one of those people who think different people cant come to the same conclusion and therefore have the same opinion?

Sorry, didn't feel like responding to baseless assumptions.
what is the message of your comment though?
"This emotion is mine alone.
It is for Madoka alone." - Homura
or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica.
 
May 26, 3:49 PM

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Amazing episode! Honestly when I read the manga last year. I feel that Fugo would have easily killed Secco with the virus. Such a shame he was so underutlized in the series.

Heck, I would love to see Fugo vs Cioccolata. Let's see if he's mold can stand with the virus.

I already know how this is going to end. This is definitely one of the best fights alongside the train arc :)
 
May 27, 6:29 AM

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Comander-07 said:
Shoryuuken said:

Sorry, didn't feel like responding to baseless assumptions.
what is the message of your comment though?

Whatever you decided to interpret by reading it. Carry on.
 
May 27, 9:37 AM

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Shoryuuken said:
Comander-07 said:
what is the message of your comment though?

Whatever you decided to interpret by reading it. Carry on.
so you actually had nothing to say? But you wanted to say something.
"This emotion is mine alone.
It is for Madoka alone." - Homura
or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica.
 
May 27, 3:09 PM

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Comander-07 said:
Shoryuuken said:

Whatever you decided to interpret by reading it. Carry on.
so you actually had nothing to say? But you wanted to say something.

What are you trying to get at? I said media can't ever be objectively looked at because not every person can feel the directors vision. That's it, there is nothing more to it, what is your actual problem?
 
May 27, 3:29 PM

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Shoryuuken said:
Comander-07 said:
so you actually had nothing to say? But you wanted to say something.

What are you trying to get at? I said media can't ever be objectively looked at because not every person can feel the directors vision. That's it, there is nothing more to it, what is your actual problem?
No you didnt. You said "Someone else in this forum made a post about the same thing, what a coincidence." So are you one of those people who think different persons cant get to the same opinion? You give me the feeling of a kneeler who screams "hurr durr bandwagon" whenever a different opinion gets popular.
"This emotion is mine alone.
It is for Madoka alone." - Homura
or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica.
 
May 28, 4:44 AM

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I honestly don't give two shits what a nobody thinks about my demeanor online, nor do I have anything to proof, nor do I have the motivation to discuss with someone so insecure to think that anyone always has an ill motive on this godforsaken website. I said it was a coincidence, yes, but that has nothing to do with YOU as a person. You're acting like a an ass that's sensitive of any form of feeback on their view of a Japanese series. Your "feeling" is kind of off though, I know that for a certain.
Modified by Shoryuuken, May 28, 4:49 AM
 
May 28, 3:02 PM

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Shoryuuken said:
I honestly don't give two shits what a nobody thinks about my demeanor online, nor do I have anything to proof, nor do I have the motivation to discuss with someone so insecure to think that anyone always has an ill motive on this godforsaken website. I said it was a coincidence, yes, but that has nothing to do with YOU as a person. You're acting like a an ass that's sensitive of any form of feeback on their view of a Japanese series. Your "feeling" is kind of off though, I know that for a certain.
No point then. Carry on.
"This emotion is mine alone.
It is for Madoka alone." - Homura
or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica.
 
May 31, 6:20 PM

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"Yoshi yoshi yoshi!" moment destroyed me. xD But on the other side it shows how Cioccolata and Secco really are like - bunch of two psychos killing and tormenting people for pure enjoyment. If even the Boss loathed them then surely he also felt that their methods are too radical and cruel, although wasting their abilities would've been a huge mistake.

It was a solid episode, with beautiful-drawn and emotional scene in the car, with Giorno and Bucciarati talking with each other. We also got a confirmation that Bucciarati had been dead since the moment after he faced King Crimson back in Venice. So should we assume he is like, dunno, a zombie? :P

SomaHeir said:
Heck, I would love to see Fugo vs Cioccolata. Let's see if he's mold can stand with the virus.

Not only you, mate. I'm wondering what Fugo was doing while Bruno's group was fighting for their lives in Rome, lol.
 
Jun 28, 4:35 PM

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I wonder who would win between Cioccolata and Fugo
 
Jul 13, 4:30 PM

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Looks like Bruno’s days are numbered. Rest in pepperonis Bruno, it was nice knowing you.

Its amazing how many injuries Mista can survive.
 
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