JoJo no Kimyou na Bouken Part 5: Ougon no Kaze Episode 30 Discussion

R3K_ said:

So... he NEEDS help.


Yes, only Abbachio hated him. The rest was like... "ok, a new member, let's make fun of him!"... is that hatred? lol

CondemneDio said:

Yes, sometimes. Even Jotaro needed help, and I don't think you're saying he is not a Gary Stu for it, right?

Indifference is not love, so my point stands.

CondemneDio said:

To appease your sand-filled vagina, let's go over some Gary Stu traits.

Perfect hero who can do no wrong: check. Giorno is basically portrayed the second coming of Jesus.
Good looks; check. If you can forgive the croissant black holes stuck to his hair.
Talented; check. Giorno rarely needs help from anyone. In fact, he can boss around adults because he is more talented than people 10 or 20 years older than him.
No flaws; check. Giorno can do no wrong. This is also a part of a bigger problem. Giorno really has very little personality to begin with, let alone flaws that would make him a believable character.
Loved by everyone; check, kinda. First, he was hated by the group. He showed a fraction of his Jesus powers, and they all think he is the best thing since sliced bread (with the sole exception of lip-stick policeman).
All the character has took them no effort; check. Giorno's destiny was to become something greater than a commoner. His stand power is what amplifies this.

You're probably going to disagree with these points, and feel free to.

CondemneDio said:

It's a second language to me too, and that's why I make doubly sure to make my points clean, well-written, and straight to the point.

I think we're done here.

R3K_ said:

So, for you, people only hate or love somebody? Nothing in between? lol

Jotaro literally solo'ed: Dark Blue Moon, Strength, Yellow Temperance, Wheel of Fortune, Enya, High Priestess, Geb (kind of), Anubis, Set and D'Arby the Gambler.

CondemneDio said:

And that's because Araki wanted the other characters to have moments too, most probably.
Any other problem they have gets cleared by Giorno with no difficulty.

Do you not remember how Giorno was welcomed into the gang?

CondemneDio said:

?
You misunderstood me most probably.
Hate, love, and indifference in a spectrum. Being indifferent about someone is neither love nor hate.

We could go on and count the percentages of how many foes each offending Jojo soloes, but that's a bit of a fruitless labor really.

Modernoir said:

>Perfect hero who can do no wrong: check. Giorno is basically portrayed the second coming of Jesus.
Yes of course, because right from the start he was treated as a saint by everyone right? That's why the group gave him the cold-shoulder at the start and why Abba pissed in a cup to greet him right? The only person to actually give Gio the benefit of the doubt from the start was Mista and that's because he's just a great guy in general. Giorno had to earn Fugo's respect in the MiTM fight by being ballsy, he gained Narancia's approval from defending him numerous times in arguments and by directly assisting him in the Clash/Talking Heads fight, and even Abbacchio who goes completely against what you're saying dies without ever verbally expressing his approval to Giorno (but hints at it since he kept that last piece of stone in his hand so that Giorno could trace its origins back to the stone replica he created. It was subtle, but a really nice end to the back-and-forth relationship the two had). Gio isn't literally portrayed as Jesus (despite the biblical imagery here and there), he's a Joestar taking on the role of an actual leader rather than a reactionary protag like the others. That isn't inherently bad.
>Good looks; check. If you can forgive the croissant black holes stuck to his hair.
So, every JoJo then?
>Talented; check. Giorno rarely needs help from anyone. In fact, he can boss around adults because he is more talented than people 10 or 20 years older than him.
Did we watch the same anime? Do you not recall the countless times Giorno has been incapacitated or left useless in a fight? Being deflated in Soft Machine to rely on Abba to solve the mystery, being completely incapacitated in Grateful Dead/Beach Boy, getting his shit royally pushed in in White Album (A stand that might as well have been a direct counter to his ability to create life, if it weren't for Mista Giorno would've been completely useless), or how about the time he was completely incapacitated in Clash/Talking Head and had to put his full faith in Narancia to defeat Squallo and Tiziano? He's talented, but so are all JoJo's. Seriously. Joseph, Jotaro and Josuke play some 4D chess numerous times in their parts, and besides, Giorno takes plenty of shit at the start and it only stops because he proves to the group that he's worth taking seriously. That's called character growth.
>No flaws; check. Giorno can do no wrong. This is also a part of a bigger problem. Giorno really has very little personality to begin with, let alone flaws that would make him a believable character.
The more you go in the more it sounds like you haven't even been watching the show. Giorno can do plenty wrong, him using himself to force Abba into using his Stand was by all means a ridiculously risky move but it paid off, unlike later on like in White Album where he makes reckless decisions under pressure like driving the car into the canal (gee, taking a Stand user who's abilities revolve around ice under water? Sasuga Giorno) which was only salvaged by Mista and their combined efforts after. Not only that but he fucks up at the moments he SHOULD be perfect for, his Stand could potentially save anyone but he's not only fucked up once but twice with Bruno and Abbacchio. I don't know how you can see his reaction to Abba's death and the denial he exclaims when Bruno tells Giorno he was too late in saving him in the car and then tell me Gio has no personality traits that make him human.
>Loved by everyone; check, kinda. First, he was hated by the group. He showed a fraction of his Jesus powers, and they all think he is the best thing since sliced bread (with the sole exception of lip-stick policeman).
You literally debunk yourself in the first line of this complaint. He wasn't loved by everyone at the start, he had to earn his way to be trusted by the members of Bruno's gang, and even then all the way until the end Abba was disapproving/tsundere towards him. What is your complaint? That it's unreasonable for a gang to actually want to get along to efficiently work together? Of course the group will like Giorno by the end, he demonstrated enough qualities as a leader to inspire them while also showing his full trust in his teammates by leaving his life in the hands of them several times.
>All the character has took them no effort; check. Giorno's destiny was to become something greater than a commoner. His stand power is what amplifies this.
That was never just Giorno's destiny though. This was explained in the 2nd episode mate, his life started at the bottom of the barrel until by chance he met and saved a wounded gangster on the street just because the man seemed as lonely as him. The act of kindness he gave resulted in his life being changed for the better all thanks to that man, and it makes perfect sense why that gangster inspired him to follow his dream. He knew first-hand just how shit Italy was thanks to his experience growing up in it, does it not make sense that he'd pursue a dream to fix it? He wouldn't have gotten anywhere in the gang if he'd went solo, as shown by the numerous times throughout the part where he would've fuckin' died if he was on his own.

I disagree with everything you've had to say but I'm at least glad you went into detail this time. I'd honestly advise you to give this part and Giorno more of an open chance, I'm not sure where you got these thoughts from when most of them are easily disprovable/don't make too much sense, but hey there's 9 more eps left so who knows maybe you'll like him a bit better by the end. Or not. Not every part in the series is for everyone, I just hope you can see that a lot of your criticisms apply far more to other characters in the series than Giorno.

Modernoir said:

Now this is just ridiculous. You can't call other people stupid then make bottom-of-the-barrel arguments like "Y-Yeah Giorno could've cleared every fight on his own!" despite it being proven in those exact fucking fights he'd have been rendered useless if it weren't for his teammates, as if you know better than the writer of the part himself. Are you just digging for excuses to rip on the character or something? Why are you so obsessed with labelling characters as gary stus? Can you not take a character on their own merits? Do you have to rely on buzzwords because nuance is a concept you can't understand? If you're really this unwilling to see how many times your criticisms have been invalidated by actual evidence then we're done here, I think you've embarrassed yourself in this thread enough after all. It's like arguing with someone who's only thoughts on Golden Wind come from them skim-reading meme criticisms on 4chan JoJo threads lmfao

R3K_ said:

"First, we was hated by the group." You literally said that lol

Also, you were the one that said Giorno didn't need help, I demonstrate he did, you answered a laughable "Araki wanted the other characters to have moments too" "even Jotaro needed help", and I showed the difference.

Some people here are kind of too defensive about your criticism, but you're not so different now.

CondemneDio said:

About the perfect hero part: I wasn't referring to how the world inside the anime reacts to him. We see very early on how he is a saint, he has super powers, and we see him doing good things.

Almost every Jojo is a Gary Stu to some degree. The only ones I would exempt are probably parts 4, 7 and 8.

Giorno is a key factor in most conflicts, and outside of conflicts too. He either takes out enemies, or gives information/clues to the other members of the gang.

I'll re-word this one a bit for you: any mistakes Giorno makes have no real consequences. Another part of this is flaws of personality, which he basically does not have.

Not every Gary Stu character has to meet every crtieria at the start of their character arc.

It's pretty pointless to speculate about what Giorno would've done had he not become a ganster. Just my opinion.

It's good to see someone here is not so quick to fling insults at me and have actual conversations. I already gave it a chance years ago when I read it, not my favorite part. Watching the anime version really makes the bad points stick out to me.
And as I think I've made clear at this point, many character in Jojo are Gary Stus. Giorno included, and one of the most egregious examples too.

CondemneDio said:

And that's because Araki wanted the other characters to have moments too, most probably.
Any other problem they have gets cleared by Giorno with no difficulty.

Do you not remember how Giorno was welcomed into the gang?

darkstom248 said:

Those are the majority of the fights he is in though. The other fights are soloed by the other gang members or only involve villains. I honestly don't know how you can honestly say completely seriously that a character that is completely absent from fights or if he is present needs help to win it 90% of the time. The other users basically listed every fight Giorno has even a passing influence in and most of them he either messed up and needed help or was completely useless from the start of the fight. So again, how is he a Gary Stu that wins every fight he is a part of without difficulty.

And yeah he was welcomed. Bruno, the boss, introduced him. Why wouldn't they welcome him? He's a coworker. Even then Abbacchio doesn't like him for a majority of the part like many workplace environments.

Shoryuuken said:
@Comander-07

It's not a right or wrong situation. It almost never is in cinemá, you either feel it or not.

R3K_ said:
Uhm, what.
How exactly was he hated?

Hobgoblin2099 said:


He gets hazed by everyone when he first meets the gang. Everyone except Abbacchio gets over really fast, though.

Hobgoblin2099 said:


He gets hazed by everyone when he first meets the gang. Everyone except Abbacchio gets over really fast, though.

Comander-07 said:
What has that to do with your original reply? Are you one of those people who think different people cant come to the same conclusion and therefore have the same opinion?

Shoryuuken said:

Sorry, didn't feel like responding to baseless assumptions.

Comander-07 said:
what is the message of your comment though?

Shoryuuken said:

Whatever you decided to interpret by reading it. Carry on.

Comander-07 said:
so you actually had nothing to say? But you wanted to say something.

Shoryuuken said:

What are you trying to get at? I said media can't ever be objectively looked at because not every person can feel the directors vision. That's it, there is nothing more to it, what is your actual problem?

Shoryuuken said:
I honestly don't give two shits what a nobody thinks about my demeanor online, nor do I have anything to proof, nor do I have the motivation to discuss with someone so insecure to think that anyone always has an ill motive on this godforsaken website. I said it was a coincidence, yes, but that has nothing to do with YOU as a person. You're acting like a an ass that's sensitive of any form of feeback on their view of a Japanese series. Your "feeling" is kind of off though, I know that for a certain.

SomaHeir said:
Heck, I would love to see Fugo vs Cioccolata. Let's see if he's mold can stand with the virus.