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May 16, 3:06 PM

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@alshu

This might not be relevant now, but wit studio has removed the thick outline since snk season 3 part 1, I believe season 2 as well not sure, honestly when I first watch season 1, it also did bother me but then I got use to it.

Also I can't believe some persons are saying attack on titan is old! I will at least give it until 2023 before the first season is considered to be old, that would make it a decade old.
 
May 16, 3:09 PM

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When its not widescreen, basically.
 
May 16, 3:13 PM

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Generally, anything after 2000 is "new" imo.

I don't consider shows such as Diebuster (2004) or Naruto (2002) to be old.

Though rather than just splitting anime into just 2 categories of old or new, it makes more sense to me to categorize them by decade.
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May 16, 7:32 PM

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EndlessMaria said:
Generally, anything after 2000 is "new" imo.

I don't consider shows such as Diebuster (2004) or Naruto (2002) to be old.

Though rather than just splitting anime into just 2 categories of old or new, it makes more sense to me to categorize them by decade.


I completely agree with you, friend.
Sorting by decade is the best way to go, honestly.
 
May 16, 10:16 PM

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alshu said:
hairu said:

The art-style is was I'm kinda getting at, modern anime looks smoother, the lines are less bolder, colour palette is also much bigger.

OK your examples here are a bit low quality, no substantial differences in them but I could guess that HxH 2011 - had better budget and had more time dedicated for making the visuals appealing and the older version just had time for "by the numbers" adaptation.

The "smoother" part was explained earlier in this topic - in those cases where the original movie type is saved you can get a higher resolution scan with way more detailed image.
And I am not sure if you are aware but same goes with the palette too - movie and video types deteriorate with time and the first thing which goes bad is the colors. When digitally scanned and than after some restoration process you can get the original rich, saturated and vibrant colors.

The problem with the wrong perception of older TV shows is that very few people here have seen them as intended: through high-end analog equipment.
From the movie tape they were transferred, edited on and aired from video type (VTR not VCR) and watching them on a new and expensive CRT TV would give you some nice colorful picture.
But than this video type would be reused and the show transferred to a lower quality media like U-matic VCR which was something technically on par with the VHS.
Home editions on VHS and later on DVD would use those with already decaying magnetic properties. (If you don't know VHS and DVD looked like crap in comparison to analogue TV air...with proper equipment and antenna tho.)
Only latter they began to use some better BETA (or others) VCR storage technology firstly analog then digital.

So to be able to judge an old show or movie you should use some restored/remastered version or it wouldn't be fair comparison. Some of those look better than newer stuff even by nowadays point of view (because the authors had the time and the money).

Here's my opinion: Older TV shows art style include thick lines, limited colour palette, detailed eyes, (puffy hair,) shading, there's an obvious different between the then and now. Even with shows like sailor moon, which has good quality, the use of colour now far surpassed that of then. Technologies and the anime industry has developed a lot, changing a lot. There are still shows from the 70's that are amazing and I'd definitely recommend over shows from now.
People are just used to the art style now.
alshu said:
hairu said:
People have their own preferences

This is understandable but some of them art not just ignoring anime legacy but go with statements like "old = obsolete = bad" which is king of wrong but contagious type of thinking.

I haven't seen much people say this before, but definitely a false statement. Childhood shows are nowhere near "bad"!

alshu said:
hairu said:
I don't see what there isn't to understand in that?

Oh, superficial thinking is really easily understandable and there is nothing wrong with it (at least I am doing it all the time). People just search for entertaining.

But some of them have ambition to be connoisseurs and even do a little bit of [misguided] gate keeping. I don't understand those guys.
They only have idea of some recent trends, point at shows like Death Note or Steins;Gate to be pioneers at something and act like anime didn't exist before they were borne.

The only "connoisseurs" I've seen online that I hate are those that review shows but give them a bad rating, as it's popular and to differentiate themselves from others who give it a good rating.
Modified by hairu, May 17, 7:04 AM
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May 16, 10:50 PM
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I still think of all anime from the 2000's and later as new, 80's & 90's is still in this weird place between old and new for me, 60's & 70's is where I start to think of something as "old". Maybe it's because I'm more into 70's anime that something usually has to be REALLY old for me to consider it old.
 
May 17, 12:29 AM

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keragamming said:
@alshu
This might not be relevant now, but wit studio has removed the thick outline since snk season 3 part 1,

Well the outline is not my main issue with AOT, you stop to notice it like 2 minutes into the first episode, Kabaneri (kind of) fixes the problem with the sudden transitions from 24 frames a second sakuga to 4 frames a second slideshoe, Mahoutsukai no Yome looked like regular show and also Wit movies are visually fine.

My point was that it's visuals are hardly a paragon for modern anime design...at least from my point of view.

hairu said:

Older TV shows art style include thick lines, limited colour palette, detailed eyes, (puffy hair,) shading, there's an obvious different between the then and now.

The thick lines are technically characteristic only up to the 80s. Those seen in the 90s are more of a tradition or artistic choice.

The limited colour palette is technically characteristic only up to the beginning of the 70s. The reason you can't see the richness of those shows after is due to a storage problems - even watching some restored stuff can give you only approximation.
Also there are some limited colour palette shows from the 90s but this is an artistic choice and I am not sure what caused it...some trend?

And yes we are speaking about TV here, movies had no limitations since the 60s.

hairu said:
Even with shows like sailor moon, which has good quality

Not really. It's a low budget show except its last season and the first one is the trashier: animation errors, inconsistent art between episodes ect.
Maybe you have seen some restored version - don't take it as some paragon of the 90s!

hairu said:
Technologies and the anime industry has developed a lot, changing a lot.

Well duuuh, but surprisingly the visual peak of contemporary anime is around 2009 - 2013.
We got a lot of half backed or even trashy shows lately and the reasons are economical.
Ignoring for example everything before 2015 because old = bad is depraving yourself from something potentially good.

hairu said:
People are just used to the art style now.

No fixed art style in this moment or any moment. There are many styles that change and the people are accustoming to them because this change is slow.
If some who stopped watching anime in 2010 comes back today he would notice the difference.
The "old" styles are not that alien, they just demand a little but of effort and patience like 2 or 3 episodes but people will prefer to see some new cookie cutter show instead of a classic.

hairu said:
Childhood shows are nowhere near "bad"!

Yeah, lets just ignore nostalgia.

hairu said:
The only "connoisseurs" I've seen online that I hate are those that review shows but give them a bad rating, as it's popular and to differentiate themselves from others who give it a good rating.

Well some popular shows ARE bad. I guess in our cynic internet culture is impossible to tell apart haters from real criticism.

Modified by alshu, May 17, 12:41 AM
 
May 17, 4:45 AM

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Those animé many here consider as "old" are more detailed and better animated compared to their favorite show. So It's fun reading who considers what "old"
 
May 17, 5:00 AM

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@alshu

Well that is true, the design in wit studio isn't the typical design you would see in modern anime, I would say sao art style is what most modern anime look like. Its all comes down to taste though, the new series called Kimetsu no Yaiba also have a unique art style as well, you may like that one.

A lot of person does say that attack on titan look like movie quality compare to your typical anime, but again its down to taste.
 
May 17, 5:01 AM

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When it's older than me - wich means at least 2/3 of you never saw an old anime according to me.
 
May 17, 5:13 AM
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EndlessMaria said:
Generally, anything after 2000 is "new" imo.

I don't consider shows such as Diebuster (2004) or Naruto (2002) to be old.

Though rather than just splitting anime into just 2 categories of old or new, it makes more sense to me to categorize them by decade.

Exactly. I don't see what classifying something as "old" or "new" even achieves. They're just decades or eras of anime to me, with their own art, animation, and storytelling styles and cliches. Same with movies and music.
 
May 17, 5:15 AM

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Anything in the sphere of pre-digital animation is old to me. Calling shows that are 10 years old is still a bit iffy, since you can barely spot any major differences in animation. All you see is overanimation and polishing CGI. Creativity is replaced with eye candy which is why there are barely any groundbreaking shows nowadays. Generally, modern anime just doesn't allow the artistic nature of animation to bear fruit. Furthermore, the only thing that sets itself apart is tinkering with saturation and color palettes. Shot angles that speak the story for itself or the symbolic scenes aren't common anymore.

Another thing that sets old and new anime apart is the sound quality, where newer shows totally dominate oldschool ones that are at times unbearable. Threw this in so that my post is not all gray and infested with criticism of 'new anime' :p
 
May 17, 5:31 AM

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keragamming said:
I would say sao art style is what most modern anime look like.

Yes, that would be a more appropriate example.

keragamming said:
Kimetsu no Yaiba also have a unique art style as well, you may like that one.

Liked the style hated the story (emo teens being even more overemotional )- dropped after first episode.

keragamming said:
A lot of person does say that attack on titan look like movie quality compare to your typical anime, but again its down to taste.

For me this speaks - lack of anime experience in those who say that. (At least kind of insulting to the movies.)
Modified by alshu, May 17, 5:36 AM
 
May 17, 7:25 AM

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@alshu
Not to somewhat change the subject.

But what exactly are the real so called classics though?
Are they the ones that the West likes to circlejerk, pretend like those are the only ones that matter from said eras? Or the ones that the Japanese recommend?

Don't bother if you don't know how special effects were done without computers.

 
May 17, 7:34 AM

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if it's older than me then it's old. i'm not falling for that one
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May 17, 7:36 AM

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If it was made before the turn of the millenia I'd say it's old. Mostly because I got into anime in 00s and anything before that feels old.



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May 17, 7:42 AM

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Anything that's not currently airing
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May 17, 8:31 AM

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Cabron said:

But what exactly are the real so called classics though?

I don't know.
I was half joking because recently I watched some Gigguk video called - The Death of Classic Anime.
But eventually my real answer would be something like this - "You should go, do some extensive digging + watching and decide for yourself what is classic to you personally!"
 
May 17, 10:00 AM
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cel animation + black bars would be considered old. but some titles hold up to their animation years later
I make things, slowly.
 
May 17, 10:45 AM

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If the anime in question is older than me, then I consider it 'old' and I'm from '88 so yeah...
That 30+ year old boomer that teaches paleontology during a hentai review on MAL. *sips*
Anime was indeed a mistake, since we prefer 2D waifu's over 3D wamen.
 
May 17, 10:51 AM
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___________
Sailor moon/Neon Genesis Evangelion age - Old
____________
Code Geass/Death Note - Semi-Old
____________
BNHA/Angel Beats - New
____________
 
May 17, 10:57 AM

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Rounding I think animates with 10 years are already considered old
 
May 17, 11:05 AM
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Subtract your age from the year. That's what I consider old.
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May 17, 12:29 PM

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For me it's when it hits a decade of age.
It's till awesome to watch them of course but that's what I'd consider the "older" category.
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May 17, 12:34 PM
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I consider an anime old if it's before 2007.
 
May 17, 12:38 PM

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If I start considering some anime as old, then that means I'm old. I will remain forever young.
 
May 17, 12:47 PM

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lol

for me 70-early 90s are oldies but nothing wrong with that,sometimes even better
 
May 17, 12:58 PM

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Old is a pretty relative term. I would consider "retro" anything pre-2000's. I feel now that it's been almost 20 yrs anything early 2000's is pretty old... like those anime are legally allowed to drink and give consent and shit... dats old.

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May 17, 3:00 PM

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When streaming platform isn't as widely acknowledge and multiple streaming service sucking anime industry's isekai cock and still milks it to this day; when there's only 1-10 anime and not 100 billion anime in a season....


That I think what separates the old anime compared to.... ummmm now.... I guess....
 
May 17, 3:22 PM
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to me anything before 2000 is considered old
 
May 17, 4:09 PM

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"Old" anime would be the type that uses the pre-1999, hand-drawn animation style. Anything after that can be seen as recent.

You have to wait 20-30 years for an anime to be considered "old." One 10-20 years old can be considered "older."
 
May 17, 4:18 PM

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alshu said:
Cabron said:

But what exactly are the real so called classics though?

I don't know.
I was half joking because recently I watched some Gigguk video called - The Death of Classic Anime.
But eventually my real answer would be something like this - "You should go, do some extensive digging + watching and decide for yourself what is classic to you personally!"
Haha I see.
And yeah I watched that video as well, not surprised that he's wrong yet again.
Don't bother if you don't know how special effects were done without computers.

 
May 17, 4:51 PM

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Cabron said:
not surprised that he's wrong yet again

Is he supposed to be right on his own terms? He was joking...I think...
 
May 17, 6:12 PM

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alshu said:
I am watching [the remaster of] Space Cobra that came out in 1982 and it's new to me ...tho I am familiar with the characters and the aesthetics from later Cobra titles.


I don't get you guys.
Why you are so obsessed with newer cutting edge stuff? Are those titles always satisfying to you no matter the content?
Not me.
Not anymore.


Yes, technologies evolve, artists learn how to use them ect...which is overclouded by the fact for what they are used, what kind of imagery and storytelling.

For example Violet Evergarden looks really great but I am totally not interested in what this show is trying to tell me.
Also isn't it an overkill to tell such mostly melodramatic and static story constituted mainly of dialogs with such rich and dynamic visuals?
On the other hand Golden Kamuy which is a way more interesting to me has dynamic story, a lot of action and beautiful scenery...but all this is represented by mostly static shots and horrible low detail 3D CGI additions like bears, wolfs, camp fires ect.


Thus a show could use all the contemporary technologies and still not working properly.
Also trends nowadays skip on some of my favorite genres and themes.


I really can't believe you think that new anime is the only anime that suffered from 1) bad storytelling 2) bad art or animation that was new (for the time) and still being developed depending on funding 3) overused themes/underused themes due to spikes in certain trends (especially the space opera era which has now been so overdone that no one watches new ones that come out and therefore, we see very little of it funded). I watch quite a lot of old and new shows and my dude, anime has always had it's hits and most certainly, it's misses. A lot less used to come out each season, and if you look at what people had to choose from, not all of it was great. I stand by saying that new AND old anime has it's flaws. Bad CGI is hard to look at, but so was bad cel animation. What we can do now with animation and rapid growing international anime popularity is incredible and we should be grateful, even if it's not all to our taste.
 
May 17, 7:01 PM

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Anything that is 10+ years is old to me

 
May 18, 4:24 AM

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spaceinvaderlum said:

I really can't believe you think that new anime is the only anime that suffered from 1) bad storytelling 2) bad art or animation that was new (for the time) and still being developed depending on funding 3) overused themes/underused themes due to spikes in certain trends

You misunderstood my entire post?
Where I am saying that every old anime is perfect?
This is only some kind of automatic [and offending] suggestion from your part. Criticizing on something doesn't mean that one should accept by default everything else.

My point is that technology or not authors rarely get a chance to complete their work as they wanted it and without compromises. Every anime period has mountains of trash in it.
The good stuff is too little to begin with...so limiting yourself only to recent titles will limit your contact with it.
Except if you practice ironic watch and/or guilty pleasure watch (as I do).


spaceinvaderlum said:
especially the space opera era which has now been so overdone that no one watches new ones that come out and therefore, we see very little of it funded

Naaah, the majority people here never touched the stuff so there is no fatigue from it.
It's just not popular in this moment...and in foreseeable future because it's insanely expensive to made and one of the reason it died: most of the shows were cheap and crappy looking.


spaceinvaderlum said:
I watch quite a lot of old and new shows

Congratulations, you win my resp...oooh, but you are shitting on my post and twisting my words.



What, are we know each other?

spaceinvaderlum said:
A lot less used to come out each season, and if you look at what people had to choose from, not all of it was great. I stand by saying that new AND old anime has it's flaws. Bad CGI is hard to look at, but so was bad cel animation.

Have I said anything against this in my previous posts?

spaceinvaderlum said:
What we can do now with animation and rapid growing international anime popularity is incredible and we should be grateful, even if it's not all to our taste.

Not really.
I don't care for stuff that actively displease me.
Like I can give a chance to something new or outside of my comfort zone but if it doesn't have at least some elements which I am interested in there is no reason to follow it.
Modified by alshu, May 18, 6:33 AM
 
May 18, 5:05 AM

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alshu said:
hairu said:

Older TV shows art style include thick lines, limited colour palette, detailed eyes, (puffy hair,) shading, there's an obvious different between the then and now.

The thick lines are technically characteristic only up to the 80s. Those seen in the 90s are more of a tradition or artistic choice.

The limited colour palette is technically characteristic only up to the beginning of the 70s. The reason you can't see the richness of those shows after is due to a storage problems - even watching some restored stuff can give you only approximation.
Also there are some limited colour palette shows from the 90s but this is an artistic choice and I am not sure what caused it...some trend?

And yes we are speaking about TV here, movies had no limitations since the 60s.

All still characteristics of older shows over modern, which are evidently different from the colour and use of lines now. Especially quality, it's easier to find modern shows with better quality over older shows, but then it isn't older shows fault because they might've actually had good quality.

alshu said:
hairu said:
Even with shows like sailor moon, which has good quality

Not really. It's a low budget show except its last season and the first one is the trashier: animation errors, inconsistent art between episodes ect.
Maybe you have seen some restored version - don't take it as some paragon of the 90s!

From what I remember I've always thought of sailor moon as an anime with great visuals for its time, especially all the colours.
I've always remembered of sailor moon as good quality, especially because of it's colour. Show with good quality do surpass modern shows but mordern shows with good quality, are equally as good and or better.

alshu said:
hairu said:
Technologies and the anime industry has developed a lot, changing a lot.

Well duuuh, but surprisingly the visual peak of contemporary anime is around 2009 - 2013.
We got a lot of half backed or even trashy shows lately and the reasons are economical.
Ignoring for example everything before 2015 because old = bad is depraving yourself from something potentially good.

I've never thought old = bad and I never will, but to others new shows are preferable which is why they'd rather watch newer shows over old(and sometimes don't bother).

alshu said:
hairu said:
People are just used to the art style now.

No fixed art style in this moment or any moment. There are many styles that change and the people are accustoming to them because this change is slow.
If some who stopped watching anime in 2010 comes back today he would notice the difference.
The "old" styles are not that alien, they just demand a little but of effort and patience like 2 or 3 episodes but people will prefer to see some new cookie cutter show instead of a classic.

People find themselves getting used to this art-style over the old. Many see the difference like with the example of hxh I showed before.

alshu said:
hairu said:
The only "connoisseurs" I've seen online that I hate are those that review shows but give them a bad rating, as it's popular and to differentiate themselves from others who give it a good rating.

Well some popular shows ARE bad. I guess in our cynic internet culture is impossible to tell apart haters from real criticism.

Very true, but some people it's quite clear.
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May 18, 6:08 AM

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Oh boy now we're getting into modern anime is better because technology...

alshu said:
Cabron said:
not surprised that he's wrong yet again

Is he supposed to be right on his own terms? He was joking...I think...
Idk, it looked pretty serious to me.
Reminded of his idol and mecha video, dropped the ball on that one as well.

>Except if you practice ironic watch and/or guilty pleasure watch (as I do).
Why would you do this lol
I feel like you're not really giving them a chance.
Unless I misread that sentence?
Modified by Cabron, May 18, 9:01 AM
Don't bother if you don't know how special effects were done without computers.

 
May 18, 7:14 AM

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hairu said:

All still characteristics of older shows over modern, which are evidently different from the colour and use of lines now.

I see it as a good thing. Imagine this media stuck in some "perfect" art style (or family of styles) for decades.

hairu said:
Especially quality, it's easier to find modern shows with better quality over older shows

Yeah, quality.
You can't imagine how hype I was around 2007-2010 when the artists started to use en mass fuller potential of those digital tools with which they were tinkering only experimentally to this point.
Not only in anime but in western cartoon shows too.
But the wave of quality shows (like technical quality) have withdrawn a bit after 2015 and for example from my perspective 2019 is weaker in comparison with the previous two years.
This is [I think] caused by factored outside of the technology, as I mentioned many many times before. Of course such things happened in the past too, the business is like an ocean - it has high and low tides.
So my point is for me it's not easier to find shows with better quality. It's like almost the same from when I started actively to watch more anime around the 00's.


hairu said:
From what I remember I've always thought of sailor moon as an anime with great visuals for its time, especially all the colours.
I've always remembered of sailor moon as good quality, especially because of it's colour.

The OP/ED + the eye catches were great also the colour palette but the art and the animation of the actual show were meh in the first seasons.
 
May 18, 7:50 AM

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Anything prior to 2010, as well as animation-wise
There's still some anime around this time period that has animation feeling like those back in the days
 
May 18, 8:33 AM

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Cabron said:

Why would you do this lol

Because I am addicted to anime and must watch something every season to not get severe withdrawal symptoms.

Cabron said:
I feel like you're not really giving them a chance.

If watching something because you think it's entertainingly stupid equals to not giving a chance than yes I am not.
Also it would be a pointless offtopic if I list all genres, settings, themes ect. I have or I haven't given a chance and why.
Modified by alshu, May 18, 8:40 AM
 
May 18, 8:51 AM

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I think if it came out at least 10 years ago it can be considered old at this point.
 
May 18, 9:00 AM
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If an anime gets a ANIMAX dub...its old
 
May 18, 9:00 AM
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I'd say the pre-2000 to 2009 is what I would consider "old"
 
May 18, 9:57 AM
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anything before 2004
from 2004-2010 would be not old, but not new
2010s feel relatively new
 
May 18, 10:03 AM

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Anything pre 2000 is old imo. I dunno why, but with the changing animation during the years one can see the big difference. Like for instance there is a big difference in the animation of DB and OP. It's done by the same studio, but the gap between them is 10 years. Now back to our question, I would consider the first part of One Piece old, but not the whole anime ofc. Dragon Ball is old imo though the artist is still alive and kicking. ^^ So anything pre 2000 is old imo for now. So maybe in about 50 years all these anime now would be old. So yeah, maybe any anime 20 years from now is old. ^^
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May 19, 6:26 PM

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Weirdly enough I can watch anime from the 80s/90s/early 00s without the thought of them being old ever crossing my mind, but anime from my weeb formative years(early 10s and a little before that) just feels really fucking dated and brings a sense of dysphoric nostalgia on me("oh no am i old???"). Even though I don't care at all about staying up to date on seasonal anime, sometimes stuff a couple of seasons old seems older than it is. Maybe because of how fast the internet's hype moves its focus nowadays.
Modified by paranesiancircle, May 19, 9:33 PM
 
May 19, 9:31 PM

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Usually stuff from the 90's, maybe early 00's.
 
May 19, 11:50 PM

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alshu said:
hairu said:

All still characteristics of older shows over modern, which are evidently different from the colour and use of lines now.

I see it as a good thing. Imagine this media stuck in some "perfect" art style (or family of styles) for decades.

Others may not see it as a good thing, preferences always differ.

alshu said:
hairu said:
Especially quality, it's easier to find modern shows with better quality over older shows

Yeah, quality.
You can't imagine how hype I was around 2007-2010 when the artists started to use en mass fuller potential of those digital tools with which they were tinkering only experimentally to this point.
Not only in anime but in western cartoon shows too.
But the wave of quality shows (like technical quality) have withdrawn a bit after 2015 and for example from my perspective 2019 is weaker in comparison with the previous two years.
This is [I think] caused by factored outside of the technology, as I mentioned many many times before. Of course such things happened in the past too, the business is like an ocean - it has high and low tides.
So my point is for me it's not easier to find shows with better quality. It's like almost the same from when I started actively to watch more anime around the 00's.

2015 had so much amazing anime it's hard to compare it with now. quality had decreased a lot from previous years, but wouldn't this just be a low tide? I'm sure a high tide will come soon and current quality will increase and become much better.

alshu said:
hairu said:
From what I remember I've always thought of sailor moon as an anime with great visuals for its time, especially all the colours.
I've always remembered of sailor moon as good quality, especially because of it's colour.

The OP/ED + the eye catches were great also the colour palette but the art and the animation of the actual show were meh in the first seasons.

damn that's a let down, should definitely try rewatching it.
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May 19, 11:53 PM
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Anything before the 2000's I guess.
 
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