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May 4, 2019 12:02 PM
#1
By extension, we can call anime the most artistic category within any medium ever (pinnacle of human expression...!!!!!) Some may say there are many great cartoons too, but cartoons lack the diversity of expression that anime has What do you think, is there any specific category of art that can match up to anime? |
Irka4May 4, 2019 2:32 PM
May 4, 2019 12:06 PM
#2
Paintings and music ? They have been around since centuries or even thousands of years and were simultaneously developed in nearly every civilization known to mankind. |
Truly a Divine Comedy |
May 4, 2019 12:08 PM
#3
No, it's not, it is culturally and geographically confined and that alone is a huge limitation. Though it is reasonably diverse given that. |
May 4, 2019 12:11 PM
#4
reeeeeeeee the medium is animation anime is just a protected designation of origin |
May 4, 2019 12:12 PM
#5
KreatorX said: Paintings and music ? They have been around since centuries or even thousands of years and were simultaneously developed in nearly every civilization known to mankind. Yeah I mostly agree with this. Especially with music. I think literature is the pinnacle of human expression though. Its been around forever and literally is a window into your own world if written well. OP I feel like you haven't explored too much of any sort of art except anime and maybe a few other visual art forms. |
May 4, 2019 12:14 PM
#6
No not really, seeing as the industry itself doesn't let free form and underground stuff survive or even give the creators some form of income compared to mediums like music, which allows both for money-grubbing and free forms of the medium bring in some sort of an income. And when I say free form I really mean free form, music is the only medium that I know of that you can't really objectively judge because there is always a reason why the end product is the way it is, low production on the record? Welp once you know more about the music world you know that lo-fi production is made to give off a certain soundscape that can increase the emotions of said record, low production for an Anime? Welp either the creators were lazy or they ran out of money resulting in an Anime that will end up with a 5 mean score here. To be able to embody many forms of stories and emotions just with sound for thousands of years is much more impressive than Anime that has a lot more aspects to carry it. Yet I can agree Anime can be amazing when it is in the right hands, kinda sad to know the economy crashing in the later 2000s is the reason of the decline of risk taking ideas for Anime which I hope to see again cause when creators are more free to do as they wish for any artform the end result is likely to be something worth giving your time to. |
Ascended Taste I only came back to this site for the forum sets and to promote my RYM list... Anilist ftw still :dab: |
May 4, 2019 12:17 PM
#7
May 4, 2019 12:31 PM
#8
KreatorX said: Paintings and music ? They have been around since centuries or even thousands of years and were simultaneously developed in nearly every civilization known to mankind. That's too big a category But even without that, anime include both, and make them work in perfect harmony. Anime music is also better than most music we have today, and paintings in anime can be phenomenonal |
Irka4May 4, 2019 12:50 PM
May 4, 2019 12:32 PM
#9
jal90 said: No, it's not, it is culturally and geographically confined and that alone is a huge limitation. Though it is reasonably diverse given that. I am talking about among all confined categories There cant be any ranking if we talk broadly GERXjakobson said: Making pictures out of French Fries and doo-doo, also is way more artistic than Anime. Probably reflect your taste lmao |
Irka4May 4, 2019 12:40 PM
May 4, 2019 12:38 PM
#10
Aidoru-Ojisan said: No not really, seeing as the industry itself doesn't let free form and underground stuff survive or even give the creators some form of income compared to mediums like music, which allows both for money-grubbing and free forms of the medium bring in some sort of an income. And when I say free form I really mean free form, music is the only medium that I know of that you can't really objectively judge because there is always a reason why the end product is the way it is, low production on the record? Welp once you know more about the music world you know that lo-fi production is made to give off a certain soundscape that can increase the emotions of said record, low production for an Anime? Welp either the creators were lazy or they ran out of money resulting in an Anime that will end up with a 5 mean score here. To be able to embody many forms of stories and emotions just with sound for thousands of years is much more impressive than Anime that has a lot more aspects to carry it. Yet I can agree Anime can be amazing when it is in the right hands, kinda sad to know the economy crashing in the later 2000s is the reason of the decline of risk taking ideas for Anime which I hope to see again cause when creators are more free to do as they wish for any artform the end result is likely to be something worth giving your time to. Workers may be overworked, but there is no creativity without limitations. Also this means that what drive the workers is not money but passion, which make it even better Anime is also a medium where every drawer can add personal touches to the scene, and every scene is full of expression Another thing is that music is too broad a category compared to anime And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music |
Irka4May 4, 2019 12:43 PM
May 4, 2019 12:40 PM
#11
It's hard to say what the most diverse medium is. Anime is a good pick though. It has the most potential as it contains writing, music, animation, and directing, so in that respect it probably is. Music is part of anime and is used in games along with other mediums. Games are most likely a close second in artistic diversity. |
May 4, 2019 12:42 PM
#12
Irka4 said: What standards are you using to compare anime to other media?By extension, we can call anime the most artistic medium ever (pinnacle of human expression...!!!!!) Some may say there are many great cartoons too, but cartoons lack the diversity of expression that anime has What do you think, is there any specific category of art that can match up to anime? |
"my life at this state could be transposed into a pretty massive biography" - Cneq, "the guy who was literally using BTC in 2012 to make deals in the first main instance of a digital itemized economy forming naturally in all human history (also the precursor of NFTs) and who had 20k+ total trades.", 23 years old MAL's most prolific antivaxxer, Noboru. |
May 4, 2019 12:58 PM
#13
Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: No not really, seeing as the industry itself doesn't let free form and underground stuff survive or even give the creators some form of income compared to mediums like music, which allows both for money-grubbing and free forms of the medium bring in some sort of an income. And when I say free form I really mean free form, music is the only medium that I know of that you can't really objectively judge because there is always a reason why the end product is the way it is, low production on the record? Welp once you know more about the music world you know that lo-fi production is made to give off a certain soundscape that can increase the emotions of said record, low production for an Anime? Welp either the creators were lazy or they ran out of money resulting in an Anime that will end up with a 5 mean score here. To be able to embody many forms of stories and emotions just with sound for thousands of years is much more impressive than Anime that has a lot more aspects to carry it. Yet I can agree Anime can be amazing when it is in the right hands, kinda sad to know the economy crashing in the later 2000s is the reason of the decline of risk taking ideas for Anime which I hope to see again cause when creators are more free to do as they wish for any artform the end result is likely to be something worth giving your time to. Workers may be overworked, but there is no creativity without limitations. Also this means that what drive the workers is not money but passion, which make it even better Anime is also a medium where every drawer can add personal touches to the scene, and every scene is full of expression Another thing is that music is too broad a category compared to anime And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music "And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music" uwot m8? You literally say that for a medium that once the internet age started that single genres of music can span over 100+ sub-genres that can sound different, oh or are you talking about mainstream music? Cause if so yeah Anime has that issue too, where there are shows constantly following tropes and there only being a small portion of original ideas being Animated versus adaptations. If you mean what you say you haven't even gotten past the tip of the music iceberg, cause once you go deeper into it that is when you have thousands of years worth of sound that is still growing to this day, Anime is growing too with its ideas and allowing more creators to have freedom of expression, not only one scene but whole shows cause of the help of corporations like Netflix. Music never needed that, whole folks working a decent job or as a mailman with passion is enough to to bring endless possibilities of sound to the table. |
Ascended Taste I only came back to this site for the forum sets and to promote my RYM list... Anilist ftw still :dab: |
May 4, 2019 1:04 PM
#14
Disagree. Besides, the industry doesn't even support it's workers. |
May 4, 2019 1:12 PM
#15
I'm gonna have to disagree pretty strongly, anime (or rather animation) is quite possibly the least diverse artistic medium there is (with the possible exception of interactive stories like video games). That's not to say that anime isn't great in its own right and I would indeed argue that animation has some of the greatest potential for artistic expression but having been around for only 60 years or so it has yet to even come close to reaching this potential. What's more the expectations the audience places on popular media (like anime) restricts what styles and story types can be reasonably produced meaning so much of what comes out in the medium has such a similar feel to it. You might argue that this effect exists in all mediums and to a point you would be correct but with time and geographic (and therefore cultural) diversity these other mediums have had the room to explore a vastly greater variety of the possible facets of their respective mediums. |
May 4, 2019 1:16 PM
#16
GERXjakobson said: GERXjakobson said: GERXjakobson said: Making pictures out of French Fries and doo-doo, also is way more artistic than Anime. Probably reflect your taste lmao A person who thinks Anime is superior to literature and any other art-forms is a stupid shmok and needs to get educated. I just wanted to confront you with art-forms that are as s*** as Anime to make you realize that you're a Pleb who acts like cancer. 'Pleb'? Can you prove that such a thing even exist? Railey2 said: Irka4 said: What standards are you using to compare anime to other media?By extension, we can call anime the most artistic medium ever (pinnacle of human expression...!!!!!) Some may say there are many great cartoons too, but cartoons lack the diversity of expression that anime has What do you think, is there any specific category of art that can match up to anime? Artistic standards mate look it up |
Irka4May 4, 2019 1:21 PM
May 4, 2019 1:17 PM
#17
Both novels and mangas are dozens of times more diverse than anime. |
I never lie on the internet. What's the point of it... the chinese noodles ad is an anime and avatar isn't! triggered Check out my taste and my profile. |
May 4, 2019 1:19 PM
#18
I kind of want to know what caused you to be overwhelmed with that much passion for anime but it's also kinda fancy that you bash down on cartoons right after saying that. |
May 4, 2019 1:24 PM
#19
Aidoru-Ojisan said: Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: No not really, seeing as the industry itself doesn't let free form and underground stuff survive or even give the creators some form of income compared to mediums like music, which allows both for money-grubbing and free forms of the medium bring in some sort of an income. And when I say free form I really mean free form, music is the only medium that I know of that you can't really objectively judge because there is always a reason why the end product is the way it is, low production on the record? Welp once you know more about the music world you know that lo-fi production is made to give off a certain soundscape that can increase the emotions of said record, low production for an Anime? Welp either the creators were lazy or they ran out of money resulting in an Anime that will end up with a 5 mean score here. To be able to embody many forms of stories and emotions just with sound for thousands of years is much more impressive than Anime that has a lot more aspects to carry it. Yet I can agree Anime can be amazing when it is in the right hands, kinda sad to know the economy crashing in the later 2000s is the reason of the decline of risk taking ideas for Anime which I hope to see again cause when creators are more free to do as they wish for any artform the end result is likely to be something worth giving your time to. Workers may be overworked, but there is no creativity without limitations. Also this means that what drive the workers is not money but passion, which make it even better Anime is also a medium where every drawer can add personal touches to the scene, and every scene is full of expression Another thing is that music is too broad a category compared to anime And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music "And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music" uwot m8? You literally say that for a medium that once the internet age started that single genres of music can span over 100+ sub-genres that can sound different, oh or are you talking about mainstream music? Cause if so yeah Anime has that issue too, where there are shows constantly following tropes and there only being a small portion of original ideas being Animated versus adaptations. If you mean what you say you haven't even gotten past the tip of the music iceberg, cause once you go deeper into it that is when you have thousands of years worth of sound that is still growing to this day, Anime is growing too with its ideas and allowing more creators to have freedom of expression, not only one scene but whole shows cause of the help of corporations like Netflix. Music never needed that, whole folks working a decent job or as a mailman with passion is enough to to bring endless possibilities of sound to the table. Being easy to produce doesn't make an art better. Rather difficult works are more artistic. And you need to specify a category within music to compare with anime, rather than music as a whole |
May 4, 2019 1:31 PM
#20
I dont agree, videogames have a thing that anime dont have... and its you can play a storie, anime dont let you do that |
May 4, 2019 1:34 PM
#21
thevagus said: i dont agree, anime have music and other types of art, i think that, when you have more that 1 type of art, its easyer to be betterAs far as my knowledge goes, it is definitely music. Anime is a great art form but not as diverse as music. |
May 4, 2019 1:38 PM
#22
Low_res_Hibiki said: I disagree, Id say that the most artistically diverse medium would be film or music, as they arent restrained to a single country, which makes it easier for them to be influenced by different cultures and experiences, which makes them more diverse. I think I messed up with the title. Comparing mediums is not possible as they are too broad. Let's focus on comparing category within medium, like anime within animation [quote=GERXjakobson] Irka4 said: GERXjakobson said: GERXjakobson said: GERXjakobson said: Making pictures out of French Fries and doo-doo, also is way more artistic than Anime. Probably reflect your taste lmao A person who thinks Anime is superior to literature and any other art-forms is a stupid shmok and needs to get educated. I just wanted to confront you with art-forms that are as s*** as Anime to make you realize that you're a Pleb who acts like cancer. 'Pleb'? Can you prove that such a thing even exist? The word Pleb or Plebejer goes back to the roman empire and was a word for lower-class individuals like you. Wasn't asking for a definition. And you can't dismiss argument by calling someone lower class And if you mean it as an insult, I will have to report you |
Irka4May 4, 2019 1:47 PM
May 4, 2019 1:42 PM
#23
CitrusBoy said: I dont agree, videogames have a thing that anime dont have... and its you can play a storie, anime dont let you do that I definitely agree, in addition to video games are much more immersive and allow you to enjoy and delve more into the story. Some video games combine scenarios and music in a more epic way than any Anime. |
May 4, 2019 1:44 PM
#24
Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: No not really, seeing as the industry itself doesn't let free form and underground stuff survive or even give the creators some form of income compared to mediums like music, which allows both for money-grubbing and free forms of the medium bring in some sort of an income. And when I say free form I really mean free form, music is the only medium that I know of that you can't really objectively judge because there is always a reason why the end product is the way it is, low production on the record? Welp once you know more about the music world you know that lo-fi production is made to give off a certain soundscape that can increase the emotions of said record, low production for an Anime? Welp either the creators were lazy or they ran out of money resulting in an Anime that will end up with a 5 mean score here. To be able to embody many forms of stories and emotions just with sound for thousands of years is much more impressive than Anime that has a lot more aspects to carry it. Yet I can agree Anime can be amazing when it is in the right hands, kinda sad to know the economy crashing in the later 2000s is the reason of the decline of risk taking ideas for Anime which I hope to see again cause when creators are more free to do as they wish for any artform the end result is likely to be something worth giving your time to. Workers may be overworked, but there is no creativity without limitations. Also this means that what drive the workers is not money but passion, which make it even better Anime is also a medium where every drawer can add personal touches to the scene, and every scene is full of expression Another thing is that music is too broad a category compared to anime And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music "And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music" uwot m8? You literally say that for a medium that once the internet age started that single genres of music can span over 100+ sub-genres that can sound different, oh or are you talking about mainstream music? Cause if so yeah Anime has that issue too, where there are shows constantly following tropes and there only being a small portion of original ideas being Animated versus adaptations. If you mean what you say you haven't even gotten past the tip of the music iceberg, cause once you go deeper into it that is when you have thousands of years worth of sound that is still growing to this day, Anime is growing too with its ideas and allowing more creators to have freedom of expression, not only one scene but whole shows cause of the help of corporations like Netflix. Music never needed that, whole folks working a decent job or as a mailman with passion is enough to to bring endless possibilities of sound to the table. Being easy to produce doesn't make an art better. Rather difficult works are more artistic. And you need to specify a category within music to compare with anime, rather than music as a whole And it being harder to produce makes an art better? Cause from what I recall most Anime from this season cost more to make than an indie label record which has spawned some of the most iconic records in music, but there's also super expensive produced records like Loveless by MBV that has been regarded as one of the greatest records of all time. See? either you putting a decent amount of money or all of your income into a record is enough to create a high-quality work but wait is it really the money and production that makes it good? Nope it's the people and minds behind it that make it good. and for specifics let me drop all of Rock music on you, there's my mic drop cause I don't need to explain how much all of Rock has to offer and made to be offered. Well I feel nice so here's an easier way to explain how a single genre of music is vaster in both history and creation than Anime https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Rock/ |
Aidoru-OjisanMay 4, 2019 1:47 PM
Ascended Taste I only came back to this site for the forum sets and to promote my RYM list... Anilist ftw still :dab: |
May 4, 2019 1:45 PM
#25
Irka4 said: the most artistic medium? whatever the hell is that supposed to mean??By extension, we can call anime the most artistic medium ever (pinnacle of human expression...!!!!!) Some may say there are many great cartoons too, but cartoons lack the diversity of expression that anime has What do you think, is there any specific category of art that can match up to anime? |
May 4, 2019 1:47 PM
#26
Minerbit said: CitrusBoy said: I dont agree, videogames have a thing that anime dont have... and its you can play a storie, anime dont let you do that I definitely agree, in addition to video games are much more immersive and allow you to enjoy and delve more into the story. Some video games combine scenarios and music in a more epic way than any Anime. It is not made of drawings, so the amount of expression is far less And you need to specify category within video games |
May 4, 2019 1:51 PM
#27
Aidoru-Ojisan said: Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: No not really, seeing as the industry itself doesn't let free form and underground stuff survive or even give the creators some form of income compared to mediums like music, which allows both for money-grubbing and free forms of the medium bring in some sort of an income. And when I say free form I really mean free form, music is the only medium that I know of that you can't really objectively judge because there is always a reason why the end product is the way it is, low production on the record? Welp once you know more about the music world you know that lo-fi production is made to give off a certain soundscape that can increase the emotions of said record, low production for an Anime? Welp either the creators were lazy or they ran out of money resulting in an Anime that will end up with a 5 mean score here. To be able to embody many forms of stories and emotions just with sound for thousands of years is much more impressive than Anime that has a lot more aspects to carry it. Yet I can agree Anime can be amazing when it is in the right hands, kinda sad to know the economy crashing in the later 2000s is the reason of the decline of risk taking ideas for Anime which I hope to see again cause when creators are more free to do as they wish for any artform the end result is likely to be something worth giving your time to. Workers may be overworked, but there is no creativity without limitations. Also this means that what drive the workers is not money but passion, which make it even better Anime is also a medium where every drawer can add personal touches to the scene, and every scene is full of expression Another thing is that music is too broad a category compared to anime And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music "And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music" uwot m8? You literally say that for a medium that once the internet age started that single genres of music can span over 100+ sub-genres that can sound different, oh or are you talking about mainstream music? Cause if so yeah Anime has that issue too, where there are shows constantly following tropes and there only being a small portion of original ideas being Animated versus adaptations. If you mean what you say you haven't even gotten past the tip of the music iceberg, cause once you go deeper into it that is when you have thousands of years worth of sound that is still growing to this day, Anime is growing too with its ideas and allowing more creators to have freedom of expression, not only one scene but whole shows cause of the help of corporations like Netflix. Music never needed that, whole folks working a decent job or as a mailman with passion is enough to to bring endless possibilities of sound to the table. Being easy to produce doesn't make an art better. Rather difficult works are more artistic. And you need to specify a category within music to compare with anime, rather than music as a whole And it being harder to produce makes an art better? Cause from what I recall most Anime from this season cost more to make than an indie label record which has spawned some of the most iconic records in music, but there's also super expensive produced records like Loveless by MBV that has been regarded as one of the greatest records of all time. See? either you putting a decent amount of money or all of your income into a record is enough to create a high-quality work but wait is it really the money and production that makes it good? Nope it's the people and minds behind it that make it good. and for specifics let me drop all of Rock music on you, there's my mic drop cause I don't need to explain how much all of Rock has to offer and made to be offered. Well I feel nice so here's an easier way to explain how a single genre of music is vaster in both history and creation than Anime https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Rock/ Amount of money needed to make doesn't have much to do with the amount of artistic effort made, or amount of artistic expression it has Amount of money mostly has to do with hiring the artist, not the work done by the artist |
May 4, 2019 1:52 PM
#28
Minerbit said: Agree although anime can combine music, story and animation pretty good, anime dont have the imersive part CitrusBoy said: I dont agree, videogames have a thing that anime dont have... and its you can play a storie, anime dont let you do that I definitely agree, in addition to video games are much more immersive and allow you to enjoy and delve more into the story. Some video games combine scenarios and music in a more epic way than any Anime. |
May 4, 2019 1:53 PM
#29
Irka4 said: Some are made with drawings. Want an exemple? The Vanishinf of Ethen CarterMinerbit said: CitrusBoy said: I dont agree, videogames have a thing that anime dont have... and its you can play a storie, anime dont let you do that I definitely agree, in addition to video games are much more immersive and allow you to enjoy and delve more into the story. Some video games combine scenarios and music in a more epic way than any Anime. It is not made of drawings, so the amount of expression is far less And you need to specify category within video games |
May 4, 2019 1:54 PM
#30
Irka4 said: I think I messed up with the title. Comparing mediums is not possible as they are too broad. Let's focus on comparing category within medium, like anime within animation Edit your opening post likewise. The post is misleading in that sense. If we were to compare western animation with eastern animation (what we know as anime), then sure, anime does seem to have an edge when it comes to the range of works available. There's far more works catering to adult audiences in anime, when compared to western works (ignoring the hentai segment, for that's another creative jungle of its own) |
KreatorXMay 4, 2019 2:08 PM
Truly a Divine Comedy |
May 4, 2019 2:01 PM
#31
Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: No not really, seeing as the industry itself doesn't let free form and underground stuff survive or even give the creators some form of income compared to mediums like music, which allows both for money-grubbing and free forms of the medium bring in some sort of an income. And when I say free form I really mean free form, music is the only medium that I know of that you can't really objectively judge because there is always a reason why the end product is the way it is, low production on the record? Welp once you know more about the music world you know that lo-fi production is made to give off a certain soundscape that can increase the emotions of said record, low production for an Anime? Welp either the creators were lazy or they ran out of money resulting in an Anime that will end up with a 5 mean score here. To be able to embody many forms of stories and emotions just with sound for thousands of years is much more impressive than Anime that has a lot more aspects to carry it. Yet I can agree Anime can be amazing when it is in the right hands, kinda sad to know the economy crashing in the later 2000s is the reason of the decline of risk taking ideas for Anime which I hope to see again cause when creators are more free to do as they wish for any artform the end result is likely to be something worth giving your time to. Workers may be overworked, but there is no creativity without limitations. Also this means that what drive the workers is not money but passion, which make it even better Anime is also a medium where every drawer can add personal touches to the scene, and every scene is full of expression Another thing is that music is too broad a category compared to anime And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music "And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music" uwot m8? You literally say that for a medium that once the internet age started that single genres of music can span over 100+ sub-genres that can sound different, oh or are you talking about mainstream music? Cause if so yeah Anime has that issue too, where there are shows constantly following tropes and there only being a small portion of original ideas being Animated versus adaptations. If you mean what you say you haven't even gotten past the tip of the music iceberg, cause once you go deeper into it that is when you have thousands of years worth of sound that is still growing to this day, Anime is growing too with its ideas and allowing more creators to have freedom of expression, not only one scene but whole shows cause of the help of corporations like Netflix. Music never needed that, whole folks working a decent job or as a mailman with passion is enough to to bring endless possibilities of sound to the table. Being easy to produce doesn't make an art better. Rather difficult works are more artistic. And you need to specify a category within music to compare with anime, rather than music as a whole And it being harder to produce makes an art better? Cause from what I recall most Anime from this season cost more to make than an indie label record which has spawned some of the most iconic records in music, but there's also super expensive produced records like Loveless by MBV that has been regarded as one of the greatest records of all time. See? either you putting a decent amount of money or all of your income into a record is enough to create a high-quality work but wait is it really the money and production that makes it good? Nope it's the people and minds behind it that make it good. and for specifics let me drop all of Rock music on you, there's my mic drop cause I don't need to explain how much all of Rock has to offer and made to be offered. Well I feel nice so here's an easier way to explain how a single genre of music is vaster in both history and creation than Anime https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Rock/ Amount of money needed to make doesn't have much to do with the amount of artistic effort made, or amount of artistic expression it has Amount of money mostly has to do with hiring the artist, not the work done by the artist I clearly said that when I spoke that it was the minds and individuals behind making something in "music good". Seriously you bring up this "artistic expression" idea for a medium so bond to money for creation that the day the world economy crashed that Anime studios had to create more "safe works" to make sure they wouldn't become bankrupt? Artistic value for a medium that only grants it in small scenes or projects that are funded by big buck corporations or "fund me" pages? There are projects within Anime that have a lot of artistic value, almost all of the OVAs from the 80s to 90s were artists given money to go with what they wanted, but like I said when the economy crashed they didn't have that freedom anymore but music has always had that freedom, all forms of music have to be more specific. Either with money or little money, all the artist needs is passion and the ability to create the sound he desires. |
Ascended Taste I only came back to this site for the forum sets and to promote my RYM list... Anilist ftw still :dab: |
May 4, 2019 2:01 PM
#32
Irka4 said: Minerbit said: CitrusBoy said: I dont agree, videogames have a thing that anime dont have... and its you can play a storie, anime dont let you do that I definitely agree, in addition to video games are much more immersive and allow you to enjoy and delve more into the story. Some video games combine scenarios and music in a more epic way than any Anime. It is not made of drawings, so the amount of expression is far less And you need to specify category within video games if you need drawings because for that there are kinematics which in modern times are very well made. And let me tell you that a large percentage of video games are made of drawings or "Pixel Art", they are still made as games like Cuphead or Owlboy in which you can see the effort and dedication they put into making a game, I mean times of more than 5 years only for the art made by hand or even more. |
May 4, 2019 2:09 PM
#33
RogertheShrubber said: I'm gonna have to disagree pretty strongly, anime (or rather animation) is quite possibly the least diverse artistic medium there is (with the possible exception of interactive stories like video games). That's not to say that anime isn't great in its own right and I would indeed argue that animation has some of the greatest potential for artistic expression but having been around for only 60 years or so it has yet to even come close to reaching this potential. What's more the expectations the audience places on popular media (like anime) restricts what styles and story types can be reasonably produced meaning so much of what comes out in the medium has such a similar feel to it. You might argue that this effect exists in all mediums and to a point you would be correct but with time and geographic (and therefore cultural) diversity these other mediums have had the room to explore a vastly greater variety of the possible facets of their respective mediums. I mean, anime alone is something produced in Japan. It has its limitations because media produced by one country and one industry can only deviate as much from the norm. But animation overall is something much bigger and much more diverse than you are assuming here I think. Another different thing would be what reaches the mainstream, which tends to be safe and repetitive formulas. But there's a whole lot of experimentation with animation, there's a lot of unique animation styles and artsy stuff around the world, and there's animated productions from like everywhere in the world, each having their own ethnic or cultural approaches. |
May 4, 2019 2:14 PM
#34
jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: I'm gonna have to disagree pretty strongly, anime (or rather animation) is quite possibly the least diverse artistic medium there is (with the possible exception of interactive stories like video games). That's not to say that anime isn't great in its own right and I would indeed argue that animation has some of the greatest potential for artistic expression but having been around for only 60 years or so it has yet to even come close to reaching this potential. What's more the expectations the audience places on popular media (like anime) restricts what styles and story types can be reasonably produced meaning so much of what comes out in the medium has such a similar feel to it. You might argue that this effect exists in all mediums and to a point you would be correct but with time and geographic (and therefore cultural) diversity these other mediums have had the room to explore a vastly greater variety of the possible facets of their respective mediums. I mean, anime alone is something produced in Japan. It has its limitations because media produced by one country and one industry can only deviate as much from the norm. But animation overall is something much bigger and much more diverse than you are assuming here I think. Another different thing would be what reaches the mainstream, which tends to be safe and repetitive formulas. But there's a whole lot of experimentation with animation, there's a lot of unique animation styles and artsy stuff around the world, and there's animated productions from like everywhere in the world, each having their own ethnic or cultural approaches. Notice I didn't say that animation wasn't diverse, I said that is was less diverse than other mediums. Which is unequivocally true. |
May 4, 2019 2:20 PM
#35
RogertheShrubber said: jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: I'm gonna have to disagree pretty strongly, anime (or rather animation) is quite possibly the least diverse artistic medium there is (with the possible exception of interactive stories like video games). That's not to say that anime isn't great in its own right and I would indeed argue that animation has some of the greatest potential for artistic expression but having been around for only 60 years or so it has yet to even come close to reaching this potential. What's more the expectations the audience places on popular media (like anime) restricts what styles and story types can be reasonably produced meaning so much of what comes out in the medium has such a similar feel to it. You might argue that this effect exists in all mediums and to a point you would be correct but with time and geographic (and therefore cultural) diversity these other mediums have had the room to explore a vastly greater variety of the possible facets of their respective mediums. I mean, anime alone is something produced in Japan. It has its limitations because media produced by one country and one industry can only deviate as much from the norm. But animation overall is something much bigger and much more diverse than you are assuming here I think. Another different thing would be what reaches the mainstream, which tends to be safe and repetitive formulas. But there's a whole lot of experimentation with animation, there's a lot of unique animation styles and artsy stuff around the world, and there's animated productions from like everywhere in the world, each having their own ethnic or cultural approaches. Notice I didn't say that animation wasn't diverse, I said that is was less diverse than other mediums. Which is unequivocally true. I don't think it's "unequivocally true". |
May 4, 2019 2:21 PM
#36
I think what makes anime interesting is its almost purposeful non-diversity. There are some things only anime can do because of its limited means of expression. |
May 4, 2019 2:27 PM
#37
Aidoru-Ojisan said: Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: No not really, seeing as the industry itself doesn't let free form and underground stuff survive or even give the creators some form of income compared to mediums like music, which allows both for money-grubbing and free forms of the medium bring in some sort of an income. And when I say free form I really mean free form, music is the only medium that I know of that you can't really objectively judge because there is always a reason why the end product is the way it is, low production on the record? Welp once you know more about the music world you know that lo-fi production is made to give off a certain soundscape that can increase the emotions of said record, low production for an Anime? Welp either the creators were lazy or they ran out of money resulting in an Anime that will end up with a 5 mean score here. To be able to embody many forms of stories and emotions just with sound for thousands of years is much more impressive than Anime that has a lot more aspects to carry it. Yet I can agree Anime can be amazing when it is in the right hands, kinda sad to know the economy crashing in the later 2000s is the reason of the decline of risk taking ideas for Anime which I hope to see again cause when creators are more free to do as they wish for any artform the end result is likely to be something worth giving your time to. Workers may be overworked, but there is no creativity without limitations. Also this means that what drive the workers is not money but passion, which make it even better Anime is also a medium where every drawer can add personal touches to the scene, and every scene is full of expression Another thing is that music is too broad a category compared to anime And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music "And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music" uwot m8? You literally say that for a medium that once the internet age started that single genres of music can span over 100+ sub-genres that can sound different, oh or are you talking about mainstream music? Cause if so yeah Anime has that issue too, where there are shows constantly following tropes and there only being a small portion of original ideas being Animated versus adaptations. If you mean what you say you haven't even gotten past the tip of the music iceberg, cause once you go deeper into it that is when you have thousands of years worth of sound that is still growing to this day, Anime is growing too with its ideas and allowing more creators to have freedom of expression, not only one scene but whole shows cause of the help of corporations like Netflix. Music never needed that, whole folks working a decent job or as a mailman with passion is enough to to bring endless possibilities of sound to the table. Being easy to produce doesn't make an art better. Rather difficult works are more artistic. And you need to specify a category within music to compare with anime, rather than music as a whole And it being harder to produce makes an art better? Cause from what I recall most Anime from this season cost more to make than an indie label record which has spawned some of the most iconic records in music, but there's also super expensive produced records like Loveless by MBV that has been regarded as one of the greatest records of all time. See? either you putting a decent amount of money or all of your income into a record is enough to create a high-quality work but wait is it really the money and production that makes it good? Nope it's the people and minds behind it that make it good. and for specifics let me drop all of Rock music on you, there's my mic drop cause I don't need to explain how much all of Rock has to offer and made to be offered. Well I feel nice so here's an easier way to explain how a single genre of music is vaster in both history and creation than Anime https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Rock/ Amount of money needed to make doesn't have much to do with the amount of artistic effort made, or amount of artistic expression it has Amount of money mostly has to do with hiring the artist, not the work done by the artist I clearly said that when I spoke that it was the minds and individuals behind making something in "music good". Seriously you bring up this "artistic expression" idea for a medium so bond to money for creation that the day the world economy crashed that Anime studios had to create more "safe works" to make sure they wouldn't become bankrupt? Artistic value for a medium that only grants it in small scenes or projects that are funded by big buck corporations or "fund me" pages? There are projects within Anime that have a lot of artistic value, almost all of the OVAs from the 80s to 90s were artists given money to go with what they wanted, but like I said when the economy crashed they didn't have that freedom anymore but music has always had that freedom, all forms of music have to be more specific. Either with money or little money, all the artist needs is passion and the ability to create the sound he desires. "Either with money or little money, all the artist needs is passion and the ability to create the sound he desires" Agree with you. And it is one of the things that really set anime apart. Even when studios are creating 'safe works', individual workers have enough space to manoeuvre and input their own distinct touches |
May 4, 2019 2:28 PM
#38
Anime music is also better than most music we have today This is where I realized it was bait. |
あなたは誰? |
May 4, 2019 2:28 PM
#39
Maybe for the purpose of telling linear stories, but the most diverse medium in general? I don't think that's true. It's limited by way to many factors that need to be there in order for us to recognise it as anime in the first place. In my view, the place to find the most diverse forms of art are in a modern art museum. |
May 4, 2019 2:33 PM
#40
Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: Irka4 said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: No not really, seeing as the industry itself doesn't let free form and underground stuff survive or even give the creators some form of income compared to mediums like music, which allows both for money-grubbing and free forms of the medium bring in some sort of an income. And when I say free form I really mean free form, music is the only medium that I know of that you can't really objectively judge because there is always a reason why the end product is the way it is, low production on the record? Welp once you know more about the music world you know that lo-fi production is made to give off a certain soundscape that can increase the emotions of said record, low production for an Anime? Welp either the creators were lazy or they ran out of money resulting in an Anime that will end up with a 5 mean score here. To be able to embody many forms of stories and emotions just with sound for thousands of years is much more impressive than Anime that has a lot more aspects to carry it. Yet I can agree Anime can be amazing when it is in the right hands, kinda sad to know the economy crashing in the later 2000s is the reason of the decline of risk taking ideas for Anime which I hope to see again cause when creators are more free to do as they wish for any artform the end result is likely to be something worth giving your time to. Workers may be overworked, but there is no creativity without limitations. Also this means that what drive the workers is not money but passion, which make it even better Anime is also a medium where every drawer can add personal touches to the scene, and every scene is full of expression Another thing is that music is too broad a category compared to anime And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music "And music increasingly sound the same, and rate of development of new expression is faster in anime than in music" uwot m8? You literally say that for a medium that once the internet age started that single genres of music can span over 100+ sub-genres that can sound different, oh or are you talking about mainstream music? Cause if so yeah Anime has that issue too, where there are shows constantly following tropes and there only being a small portion of original ideas being Animated versus adaptations. If you mean what you say you haven't even gotten past the tip of the music iceberg, cause once you go deeper into it that is when you have thousands of years worth of sound that is still growing to this day, Anime is growing too with its ideas and allowing more creators to have freedom of expression, not only one scene but whole shows cause of the help of corporations like Netflix. Music never needed that, whole folks working a decent job or as a mailman with passion is enough to to bring endless possibilities of sound to the table. Being easy to produce doesn't make an art better. Rather difficult works are more artistic. And you need to specify a category within music to compare with anime, rather than music as a whole And it being harder to produce makes an art better? Cause from what I recall most Anime from this season cost more to make than an indie label record which has spawned some of the most iconic records in music, but there's also super expensive produced records like Loveless by MBV that has been regarded as one of the greatest records of all time. See? either you putting a decent amount of money or all of your income into a record is enough to create a high-quality work but wait is it really the money and production that makes it good? Nope it's the people and minds behind it that make it good. and for specifics let me drop all of Rock music on you, there's my mic drop cause I don't need to explain how much all of Rock has to offer and made to be offered. Well I feel nice so here's an easier way to explain how a single genre of music is vaster in both history and creation than Anime https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Rock/ Amount of money needed to make doesn't have much to do with the amount of artistic effort made, or amount of artistic expression it has Amount of money mostly has to do with hiring the artist, not the work done by the artist I clearly said that when I spoke that it was the minds and individuals behind making something in "music good". Seriously you bring up this "artistic expression" idea for a medium so bond to money for creation that the day the world economy crashed that Anime studios had to create more "safe works" to make sure they wouldn't become bankrupt? Artistic value for a medium that only grants it in small scenes or projects that are funded by big buck corporations or "fund me" pages? There are projects within Anime that have a lot of artistic value, almost all of the OVAs from the 80s to 90s were artists given money to go with what they wanted, but like I said when the economy crashed they didn't have that freedom anymore but music has always had that freedom, all forms of music have to be more specific. Either with money or little money, all the artist needs is passion and the ability to create the sound he desires. "Either with money or little money, all the artist needs is passion and the ability to create the sound he desires" Agree with you. And it is one of the things that really set anime apart. Even when studios are creating 'safe works', individual workers have enough space to manoeuvre and input their own distinct touches I wasn't talking about Anime in that statement, I was talking about music lol. Wonder how you got that, cause from what I recall my post clearly said that artistic freedom within Anime was limited once studios lost money from the economy crashing. Yet like a few posts ago the freedom that was seen in the OVAs of the 80s and 90s will come back thanks to Anime being less of a niche medium now and big buck corporations helping out studios. Yet since I said that, like I said with most of my posts music has more artistic value since it doesn't matter the amount of money to create a piece filled with passion. |
Ascended Taste I only came back to this site for the forum sets and to promote my RYM list... Anilist ftw still :dab: |
May 4, 2019 2:38 PM
#41
CitrusBoy said: thevagus said: i dont agree, anime have music and other types of art, i think that, when you have more that 1 type of art, its easyer to be betterAs far as my knowledge goes, it is definitely music. Anime is a great art form but not as diverse as music. Nope, that's not about having more types of art. Music has been developing for thousands of years now, every region of every country has different type of music and the list of genres that music is able to offer are just too long. Anime is nowhere near atleast in its current state. Also, music is constantly evolving today as well. |
May 4, 2019 2:40 PM
#42
jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: I'm gonna have to disagree pretty strongly, anime (or rather animation) is quite possibly the least diverse artistic medium there is (with the possible exception of interactive stories like video games). That's not to say that anime isn't great in its own right and I would indeed argue that animation has some of the greatest potential for artistic expression but having been around for only 60 years or so it has yet to even come close to reaching this potential. What's more the expectations the audience places on popular media (like anime) restricts what styles and story types can be reasonably produced meaning so much of what comes out in the medium has such a similar feel to it. You might argue that this effect exists in all mediums and to a point you would be correct but with time and geographic (and therefore cultural) diversity these other mediums have had the room to explore a vastly greater variety of the possible facets of their respective mediums. I mean, anime alone is something produced in Japan. It has its limitations because media produced by one country and one industry can only deviate as much from the norm. But animation overall is something much bigger and much more diverse than you are assuming here I think. Another different thing would be what reaches the mainstream, which tends to be safe and repetitive formulas. But there's a whole lot of experimentation with animation, there's a lot of unique animation styles and artsy stuff around the world, and there's animated productions from like everywhere in the world, each having their own ethnic or cultural approaches. Notice I didn't say that animation wasn't diverse, I said that is was less diverse than other mediums. Which is unequivocally true. I don't think it's "unequivocally true". I defy anyone to name an artistic medium which is less diverse than animation and try to justify themselves with any degree of validity (notice I use this term very carefully). There will always be someone who disagrees no matter how obvious the conclusion but unless that person can produce a valid argument for their position it is immaterial to the discussion. I deny that such an argument could possibly exist, the burden of proof falls on you to contradict this. |
May 4, 2019 2:46 PM
#43
Hate to break it to ya fella but books top out any other form of media when it comes to diversity. If you can think it, there's probably been a story written about it. EDIT :- Also, it's beyond laughable to call anime the pinnacle of human expression. I mean come on, dude. I enjoy anime, sure, but if you think that it's the pinnacle of human creativity you're purposefully deluding yourself. |
CallMeHootMay 4, 2019 2:52 PM
May 4, 2019 2:54 PM
#44
RogertheShrubber said: jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: I'm gonna have to disagree pretty strongly, anime (or rather animation) is quite possibly the least diverse artistic medium there is (with the possible exception of interactive stories like video games). That's not to say that anime isn't great in its own right and I would indeed argue that animation has some of the greatest potential for artistic expression but having been around for only 60 years or so it has yet to even come close to reaching this potential. What's more the expectations the audience places on popular media (like anime) restricts what styles and story types can be reasonably produced meaning so much of what comes out in the medium has such a similar feel to it. You might argue that this effect exists in all mediums and to a point you would be correct but with time and geographic (and therefore cultural) diversity these other mediums have had the room to explore a vastly greater variety of the possible facets of their respective mediums. I mean, anime alone is something produced in Japan. It has its limitations because media produced by one country and one industry can only deviate as much from the norm. But animation overall is something much bigger and much more diverse than you are assuming here I think. Another different thing would be what reaches the mainstream, which tends to be safe and repetitive formulas. But there's a whole lot of experimentation with animation, there's a lot of unique animation styles and artsy stuff around the world, and there's animated productions from like everywhere in the world, each having their own ethnic or cultural approaches. Notice I didn't say that animation wasn't diverse, I said that is was less diverse than other mediums. Which is unequivocally true. I don't think it's "unequivocally true". I defy anyone to name an artistic medium which is less diverse than animation and try to justify themselves with any degree of validity (notice I use this term very carefully). There will always be someone who disagrees no matter how obvious the conclusion but unless that person can produce a valid argument for their position it is immaterial to the discussion. I deny that such an argument could possibly exist, the burden of proof falls on you to contradict this. Do you think I can't name you examples of animation from many places and cultural nuances around the world being made, or of completely different animation styles and techniques, or name experimental authors? Of course I can. And if you take your time to Google you can as well. But that won't prove shit to you. You are throwing me a burden of proof when you haven't even defined clearly what do you call a standard of diversity. And I do not intend you to explain how diverse other media are, because I know how big of a task it is and how difficult it is to explain that through some specific examples and names. But unequivocally true my ass. Don't throw stuff like they are facts when you can't factually prove them (and I'm not asking you to). Plus I could be a little nitpicky and for starters take your statements with a grain of salt when just by saying "having been around for only 60 years" you are shortening animation to like half of its lifespan. |
May 4, 2019 2:58 PM
#45
RogertheShrubber said: jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: I'm gonna have to disagree pretty strongly, anime (or rather animation) is quite possibly the least diverse artistic medium there is (with the possible exception of interactive stories like video games). That's not to say that anime isn't great in its own right and I would indeed argue that animation has some of the greatest potential for artistic expression but having been around for only 60 years or so it has yet to even come close to reaching this potential. What's more the expectations the audience places on popular media (like anime) restricts what styles and story types can be reasonably produced meaning so much of what comes out in the medium has such a similar feel to it. You might argue that this effect exists in all mediums and to a point you would be correct but with time and geographic (and therefore cultural) diversity these other mediums have had the room to explore a vastly greater variety of the possible facets of their respective mediums. I mean, anime alone is something produced in Japan. It has its limitations because media produced by one country and one industry can only deviate as much from the norm. But animation overall is something much bigger and much more diverse than you are assuming here I think. Another different thing would be what reaches the mainstream, which tends to be safe and repetitive formulas. But there's a whole lot of experimentation with animation, there's a lot of unique animation styles and artsy stuff around the world, and there's animated productions from like everywhere in the world, each having their own ethnic or cultural approaches. Notice I didn't say that animation wasn't diverse, I said that is was less diverse than other mediums. Which is unequivocally true. I don't think it's "unequivocally true". I defy anyone to name an artistic medium which is less diverse than animation and try to justify themselves with any degree of validity (notice I use this term very carefully). There will always be someone who disagrees no matter how obvious the conclusion but unless that person can produce a valid argument for their position it is immaterial to the discussion. I deny that such an argument could possibly exist, the burden of proof falls on you to contradict this. That is fairly easy to prove mathematically. Ability to combine both music and drawings make amount of expression possible in animation more than plain music or drawings |
May 4, 2019 3:06 PM
#47
jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: I'm gonna have to disagree pretty strongly, anime (or rather animation) is quite possibly the least diverse artistic medium there is (with the possible exception of interactive stories like video games). That's not to say that anime isn't great in its own right and I would indeed argue that animation has some of the greatest potential for artistic expression but having been around for only 60 years or so it has yet to even come close to reaching this potential. What's more the expectations the audience places on popular media (like anime) restricts what styles and story types can be reasonably produced meaning so much of what comes out in the medium has such a similar feel to it. You might argue that this effect exists in all mediums and to a point you would be correct but with time and geographic (and therefore cultural) diversity these other mediums have had the room to explore a vastly greater variety of the possible facets of their respective mediums. I mean, anime alone is something produced in Japan. It has its limitations because media produced by one country and one industry can only deviate as much from the norm. But animation overall is something much bigger and much more diverse than you are assuming here I think. Another different thing would be what reaches the mainstream, which tends to be safe and repetitive formulas. But there's a whole lot of experimentation with animation, there's a lot of unique animation styles and artsy stuff around the world, and there's animated productions from like everywhere in the world, each having their own ethnic or cultural approaches. Notice I didn't say that animation wasn't diverse, I said that is was less diverse than other mediums. Which is unequivocally true. I don't think it's "unequivocally true". I defy anyone to name an artistic medium which is less diverse than animation and try to justify themselves with any degree of validity (notice I use this term very carefully). There will always be someone who disagrees no matter how obvious the conclusion but unless that person can produce a valid argument for their position it is immaterial to the discussion. I deny that such an argument could possibly exist, the burden of proof falls on you to contradict this. Do you think I can't name you examples of animation from many places and cultural nuances around the world being made, or of completely different animation styles and techniques, or name experimental authors? Of course I can. And if you take your time to Google you can as well. But that won't prove shit to you. You are throwing me a burden of proof when you haven't even defined clearly what do you call a standard of diversity. And I do not intend you to explain how diverse other media are, because I know how big of a task it is and how difficult it is do explain that through examples and names. But unequivocally true my ass. Don't throw stuff like they are facts when you can't factually prove them (and I'm not asking you to). Plus I could be a little nitpicky and for starters take your statements with a grain of salt when just by saying "having been around for only 60 years" you are shortening animation to like half of its lifespan. It's not up to anyone to factually prove or disprove it. I think you have a warped concept of academic discourse, I presented a position it's up to you to provide a logically consistent contradiction. Of course I won't be swayed by your argument I'm not asking you to try, I'm merely asking you to present a cogent argument if you can do this I will stand corrected. Also I didn't provide a definition for a standard of diversity since I assumed this was unnecessary since this term is already well defined. Your second point stands however, I was arbitrarily choosing the point in time when animation started becoming a recognized form of artistic expression rather than a mere novelty. But you are correct I should have justified this more. |
May 4, 2019 3:09 PM
#48
Irka4 said: RogertheShrubber said: jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: I'm gonna have to disagree pretty strongly, anime (or rather animation) is quite possibly the least diverse artistic medium there is (with the possible exception of interactive stories like video games). That's not to say that anime isn't great in its own right and I would indeed argue that animation has some of the greatest potential for artistic expression but having been around for only 60 years or so it has yet to even come close to reaching this potential. What's more the expectations the audience places on popular media (like anime) restricts what styles and story types can be reasonably produced meaning so much of what comes out in the medium has such a similar feel to it. You might argue that this effect exists in all mediums and to a point you would be correct but with time and geographic (and therefore cultural) diversity these other mediums have had the room to explore a vastly greater variety of the possible facets of their respective mediums. I mean, anime alone is something produced in Japan. It has its limitations because media produced by one country and one industry can only deviate as much from the norm. But animation overall is something much bigger and much more diverse than you are assuming here I think. Another different thing would be what reaches the mainstream, which tends to be safe and repetitive formulas. But there's a whole lot of experimentation with animation, there's a lot of unique animation styles and artsy stuff around the world, and there's animated productions from like everywhere in the world, each having their own ethnic or cultural approaches. Notice I didn't say that animation wasn't diverse, I said that is was less diverse than other mediums. Which is unequivocally true. I don't think it's "unequivocally true". I defy anyone to name an artistic medium which is less diverse than animation and try to justify themselves with any degree of validity (notice I use this term very carefully). There will always be someone who disagrees no matter how obvious the conclusion but unless that person can produce a valid argument for their position it is immaterial to the discussion. I deny that such an argument could possibly exist, the burden of proof falls on you to contradict this. That is fairly easy to prove mathematically. Ability to combine both music and drawings make amount of expression possible in animation more than plain music or drawings Yikes, I did not say POTENTIAL for diversity of expression I said actual diversity I.e. what has actually thus far been produced |
May 4, 2019 3:15 PM
#49
RogertheShrubber said: Irka4 said: RogertheShrubber said: jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: jal90 said: RogertheShrubber said: I'm gonna have to disagree pretty strongly, anime (or rather animation) is quite possibly the least diverse artistic medium there is (with the possible exception of interactive stories like video games). That's not to say that anime isn't great in its own right and I would indeed argue that animation has some of the greatest potential for artistic expression but having been around for only 60 years or so it has yet to even come close to reaching this potential. What's more the expectations the audience places on popular media (like anime) restricts what styles and story types can be reasonably produced meaning so much of what comes out in the medium has such a similar feel to it. You might argue that this effect exists in all mediums and to a point you would be correct but with time and geographic (and therefore cultural) diversity these other mediums have had the room to explore a vastly greater variety of the possible facets of their respective mediums. I mean, anime alone is something produced in Japan. It has its limitations because media produced by one country and one industry can only deviate as much from the norm. But animation overall is something much bigger and much more diverse than you are assuming here I think. Another different thing would be what reaches the mainstream, which tends to be safe and repetitive formulas. But there's a whole lot of experimentation with animation, there's a lot of unique animation styles and artsy stuff around the world, and there's animated productions from like everywhere in the world, each having their own ethnic or cultural approaches. Notice I didn't say that animation wasn't diverse, I said that is was less diverse than other mediums. Which is unequivocally true. I don't think it's "unequivocally true". I defy anyone to name an artistic medium which is less diverse than animation and try to justify themselves with any degree of validity (notice I use this term very carefully). There will always be someone who disagrees no matter how obvious the conclusion but unless that person can produce a valid argument for their position it is immaterial to the discussion. I deny that such an argument could possibly exist, the burden of proof falls on you to contradict this. That is fairly easy to prove mathematically. Ability to combine both music and drawings make amount of expression possible in animation more than plain music or drawings Yikes, I did not say POTENTIAL for diversity of expression I said actual diversity I.e. what has actually thus far been produced Then I would have to quote Jal's answer (potential for diversity is still a pretty good argument for actual diversity though). I defy you to prove a specific category in music has more diversity of expression than animation nongcom said: Replies can be non serious, but I believe what I am arguing for. It is a conclusion I have reached, and none of the replies have convinced me otherwiseIs this a bait or is the OP actually serious? |
Irka4May 4, 2019 3:25 PM
May 4, 2019 3:17 PM
#50
Even in animation there are features that surpass anime if you look into indie and arthouse scene. I assume you refer to the commercial anime you see on TV because even among Japan there is a big independent animation scene. Have this book and just a glimpse suffices |
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