Anime designed to demoralize your mind

NiBer said:
And? Your point? Perhaps you don't understand what I meant? What exactly is in contradiction here? Please do elaborate.

Keenesleyar said:

>demoralization is bad
>KnH demoralizes people
>it can de indicated by the lack of "rebeling" against KnH
>"rebeling" = calling for censorship or banning
>if lack of "rebeling" indicates demoralization and demoralization is bad, than lack of "rebeling" is bad
>if "rebeling" means calls for censorship, than lack of censorship is bad
>if lack of censorship is bad, than censorship is good

NiBer said:
If demoralization is successful most people don't rebel because it is normalized, even though it's not acceptable morally. That's my whole point.
Kind of like why people don't bat an eye anymore at gory/violent/sexually deviant films like they would have 30-40-50-60 years ago to and films that and other disgusting films are being produced. Anime is no different, just less extreme in many cases. Demoralization complete.

Maneki-Mew said:

Because I saw the "not interested"-possibility on anime planet and I wanted to devide them by this, so they won't be recommended to me from the mal system.
I might look through it a little bit and move some to ptw, but I don't plan to watch everything there either. It just looked interesting.

Why did you look out for Maid-sama? I didn't think that there is something particularly wrong with it. I just found it very boring.

Maneki-Mew said:


Kuzu no Honkai even doesn't have hookup culture involved. It's more like a friends with benefits relationship. I also wouldn't say that Akane found real love. She just found the way how she wants to be loved and that's a big theme: how different people define love and how they imagine relationships.

And most prostitutes don't have another chance to get money. I find it inherently immoral, because of the action of buying people for the sake of sex as a service. Also I only knew dumb machos or very desperated guys, who viewed people as their sex object. There shouldn't be money or benefits involved.
That doesn't mean that prostitutes couldn't be good mothers, "even" if they wanted to be one. The one thing shouldn't be connected to the other.

NiBer said:
The following isn't brought up to counter your claims, but rather to shine on the fact in general.
I'd like to bring up the point that it has an opposite effect whether there's a male or a female changing partners often. There's a reason why guys' high sexual activity with different women is seen in a positive light while girls' high sexual activity with different men isn't. Simply put, it's very easy to find different guys willing to take part in sexual activity with you, hence you can get laid often, while very difficult for guys to engage with different women on a successful level, unless you're insanely good with it, only very few guys are capable of it, I'd say less than 2%, just my estimation. Feel free to interpret that in any way you see fit.
When a medium produces content, it plays a gamble. Whether that's acceptable enough to be shown to the public is a gamble, since if there's too many people who see it in a negative light, it might get banned/shut down from viewing experience altogether. It doesn't always have to be in regards to morality, it can also be highly politically controversial, but alas. Therefore, since not an overwhelming majority has 'rebelled' against KnH I'd personally debate it's been successfully normalized, and in my opinion demoralized as well. Kind of like why no one nowadays cares whether some extremely inappropriate gory or deviant movie is made, it has to be extremely, uh..., extremely extreme for it to be banned. I think 'Serbian movie' isn't even banned, when, someone mentioned, depicts rape of an infant in the movie. I could be wrong, it may be banned, dunno for sure.
We agree to disagree, that KnH glorifies it. While I haven't used glorify per so, it's not exactly what I meant, though not far from it. I used normalize/accept the behavior as commonplace when it shouldn't be accepted altogether. You could argue that it's halfway there, hence potentionally demoralizing some of the people.

Mentioned risk behaviors are a mixed bag, some are agreeably bad, some are silly, adults regularly break it.

Maneki-Mew said:

Kuzu no Honkai even doesn't have hookup culture involved. It's more like a friends with benefits relationship. I also wouldn't say that Akane found real love. She just found the way how she wants to be loved and that's a big theme: how different people define love and how they imagine relationships.

And most prostitutes don't have another chance to get money. I find it inherently immoral, because of the action of buying people for the sake of sex as a service. Also I only knew dumb machos or very desperated guys, who viewed people as their sex object. There shouldn't be money or benefits involved.
That doesn't mean that prostitutes couldn't be good mothers, "even" if they wanted to be one. The one thing shouldn't be connected to the other.

NiBer said:
Choosing to be a prostitute and whether a woman is a good or bad mother depends entirely on her, but I would say there's an increased chance of her not fulfilling her motherly roles properly if she chose such a lifestyle. Let's say theoretically, 50% of women are good at parenting, 50% are not (in reality it's probably much higher percentage of good mothers). I'd assume that more of the women (edit:) who are prostitutes would happen to belong to the 50% that aren't good mothers. Again, this is all just hypothetical arguing so it doesn't serve much purpose.

Eneko-chan said:


Mm, it’s an arguable point. Firstly, your theory only explains why male promiscuity (and I use this term without any moral connotations, purely to designate high sexual activity) is seen in positive light, but doesn’t explain why female promiscuity is viewed as something bad. I understand how managing to accomplished a difficult feat evokes admiration, but doing something that is easy should be viewed as, well, neutral, but not negative.

Secondly, the idea that male promiscuity is positive, while female is negative, is very old. Nowadays, women have more resources (money, education etc.), so they feel confident about refusing unwanted sexual advances, and they have the power of the law on their side in case the potential partner tries to force them, so it has become more difficult to get them to have sex with you.
However, in earlier times, and, arguably, nowadays in less developed societies, women can be coerced into sex by force (whether physical or force of authority, for example) and that would be perceived as completely normal, or the society’s outrage at the act would be pointed at the woman despite her being the victim. So, a man could easily coerce several women into having sex. That is to say, it may now be difficult to get multiple women to sleep with you, but in the days when this stereotype has taken form and flourished, it wasn’t so, which makes your point questionable.

It also doesn’t take into account how access to resources (i.e. money and status) can influence a man’s ability to get laid. If you’re rich and famous, sex will just fall into your lap. Should you still be admired for your ability to get it, despite the odds being overwhelmingly stacked in your favor so it costs you absolutely no effort?

I’d argue it’s not always and not necessarily a gamble. Most media will try to manage risks by carefully choosing a target audience and making content tailored to their needs, wishes and expectations, because if they don’t, they won’t make a profit, it’s that simple. Of course, there’s indie/art-house stuff that has the purpose of making a statement rather than making profit, but KnH is clearly a commercial product.

Now, “normalize” means basically “to make something normal”. So, in your opinion, if I have understood it correctly, the logic goes like this: KnH that contains “normalizing immoral behavior” gets produced -> it successfully “normalizes immoral behavior” in people who have watched it -> they now accept “immoral behavior” as normal, engage in it, and don’t show indignation at such anime. To that, I would argue that

a) As the “immoral behavior” in question is framed in a negative light – i.e. “showing” of the deteriorating effects it has on the characters’ psyche and wellbeing, it will hardly influence anyone to accept it.

b) The purpose of the show is, in any case, not to argue whether certain behavior is acceptable or not, although, again, it does frame “immoral behavior” in negative light. The purpose is, first of all, to stir up some delicious teenage drama to entertain viewers who are entertained by it, and, arguably, offer a reflection on love, loneliness, desire to belong and how it controls people, especially in their teenage years.
Similarly, the purpose of Yosuga no Sora is not to offer moral commentary on incest and rape. It’s a show designed to entertain the viewer with titties and romantic love stories with several girls in a school setting. They’re the same in this regard – their purpose is entertainment. They’re also the same in the regard that morally questionable stuff happens there. If a moron watches both, he’ll think that both sleeping around and raping people\banging your siblings is okay.

c) The effect of such show largely depends on the viewer. If they are against “immoral behavior”, they’ll react to such anime with subconscious indignation, like you have. If they’re okay with it, they won’t. If they are yet undecided, it might arguably influence them one way or the other, but, again, it’s the same for both Yosuga no Sora and Kuzu no Honkai.
If you’re undecided on whether it might be allowed to have sex with your sister, you might think that it is after watching YnS (and you’re a degenerate). If you’re undecided about whether it’s okay to sleep around, I’d argue that after watching Kuzu no Honkai and how much drama and tears happened there, you’ll want to stay clear of that. The only thing that differs in YnS and KnH is that, as you have mentioned before, there is a common understanding that rape and incest are bad, whereas sleeping around is becoming increasingly accepted.
But, I’d argue, this common opinion existing prior to KnH’s emergence will influence an undecided person much more than KnH ever could, and that’s disregarding the fact that KnH’s stance towards sleeping around is generally negative.

Mentioned risk behaviors are just that – risk behaviors. The point is not that adults don’t do it, of course they do. The point is that teens are biologically wired to have a higher chance of engaging in them.

Well, firstly, as @Maneki-Mew has mentioned, a lot of women don’t “choose” the lifestyle. They get coerced into it, sometimes kidnapped and forced, and for some, it’s the only way to feed their kids. Secondly, I’d appreciate it if you added some evidence to back up such claims. I don’t see why a prostitute, just by virtue of her occupation alone, would be a bad mother.