| No point having good animation if you have nothing worth showing with it. I've seen numerous cases of people complaining about anime with "good animation" but shitty art, but haven't once seen a case of someone complaining of a static anime but with good art. I also hate that animator that likes to draw cubes in explosions, because 1: Things don't break in the format of cubes and 2: Cubes are boring, but this has nothing to do with the thread. |
| You sure put several words together. |
| Sorry but the point of animation is that the art moves. Like do you rather see mouth flaps or actual lip, mouth, Jaw movements when characters talk? you rather look at characters standing still while just having mouth flaps instead of actual movement? Food wars is an example of how Continueus still shots and mouth flaps just makes it boring to even look at. Anime stands for ANIMATION. so Animes are animation shows and the whole point of animation is the art of MOVEMENT. Also RonnyZapata said: Remember this: -An animated film with a good animation and bad script is a bad film. -An animated film with a bad animation and a great script is an excellent film. -An animated film with a great animation and a great script is a beatifull film. By the way, the director can not do much without a good script. ^This^ |
| You're free to have your own opinion, but this post is so wrong on so many levels it's hard trying to describe this. |
| "Literary experts revealed that reviews on sites like MyAnimeList kill more than 200 brain cells per second." - Joey, "The Anime Man" |
| @Bourmegar Yes, but animating something more detailed is more difficult. While I have the greatest respect for simple art styles that allow great animation (FLCL, Kill la Kill), beautiful, barely animated art like Balladonna of Sadness are a perfectly valid choice. Ofc, lots of shows are both ugly and poorly animated, but that's another problem. |
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| Static anime with good art? Sounds like JC Staff when the character's aren't zoomed away and derped out. They love static imagery with only mouth flaps moving of images sliding across the screen to act as 'animation'. |
| @Bourmegar It is not a case of having animation vs not having it. But a case of either having animation or art quality. That being said, i prefer a well-drawn face talking. |
| The perfect example of this is the latter half of Fate Apocrypha's fight scenes. The animation was superb but the art was so bad it was almost impossible to tell what was happening half the time That being said though, I wouldn't go as far as to say "miles" better. J.C Staff is pretty notorious with having good art (Food Wars, DaL) but having pretty poor animation and it definitely hinders those shows So ye good animation is about as important as good art |
 'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
| lol simple character design (or art style as fans call it) means animators especially talented ones can easily draw more frames and thus better animation (examples are Mob Psycho, Gurren Lagann, Kill la Kill, Ping Pong the Animation, Hells movie, heck even that hated new anime of Pokemon (its called Sun and Moon i think), etc) |
| ah a shame someone with one of my favorite characters as their pfp doesn't like Nakamura's animation. Do you dislike Ping Pong the Animation? It has an ugly art style but the animation makes the value of the show increase to becoming a masterpiece also do you dislike Mob Psycho animation definitely makes artistry better. Clean art will just look crappy if the animation is horrible. Violet Evergarden only looks as beautiful as it does because the animation was on the same par as the artistry. |
Whgedia said: Disagree, I don´t remember the name of the show, but it was about a band of boys, and it had no animations, it was just still images moving. Theres a show that has bad art ( Even tho I really like it ) to show some of the most fluid animation I have ever seen, The show name is Ping Pong the Animation and is a masterpiece ( Aslo by the same director theres Tatami Galaxi and Devilman Crybaby ) TodAboT said: Whgedia said: Disagree, I don´t remember the name of the show, but it was about a band of boys, and it had no animations, it was just still images moving. Theres a show that has bad art ( Even tho I really like it ) to show some of the most fluid animation I have ever seen, The show name is Ping Pong the Animation and is a masterpiece ( Aslo by the same director theres Tatami Galaxi and Devilman Crybaby ) Dynamic Chord! A very ironic title, may I add. And these two words alone demonstrate how dumb OP is. Dynamic Chord didn't have good art either. But supposing it had good art, it's problem was trying to use techniques to try to convey movement that are used in anime (e.g making things "wobbly"). Using the appropriate techniques (e.g. the ones used in JoJo's) it would be miles better. Short_Circut said: The perfect example of this is the latter half of Fate Apocrypha's fight scenes. The animation was superb but the art was so bad it was almost impossible to tell what was happening half the time That being said though, I wouldn't go as far as to say "miles" better. J.C Staff is pretty notorious with having good art (Food Wars, DaL) but having pretty poor animation and it definitely hinders those shows So ye good animation is about as important as good art The fact that in the last fight that one scene were the faces of both Sieg and the antagonist are zoomed in in detail leaves a stronger impression than the entire fight is probably one of the biggest arguments in favor of my point. deg said: lol simple character design (or art style as fans call it) means animators especially talented ones can easily draw more frames and thus better animation (examples are Mob Psycho, Gurren Lagann, Kill la Kill, Ping Pong the Animation, Hells movie, heck even that hated new anime of Pokemon (its called Sun and Moon i think), etc) One can have simple character design and still have good art, some good examples would be HisoMaso or Kaiba. Mob Psycho, Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill have a very good art, i don't know what you're talking about. As for Ping Pong the Animation, the problem lies that every character is just ugly as sin, so it is more of a character design issue than an art one. You could put it in a different artstyle but the characters would still be ugly, since the problem does not lie in the art. Loonitick said: ah a shame someone with one of my favorite characters as their pfp doesn't like Nakamura's animation. Do you dislike Ping Pong the Animation? It has an ugly art style but the animation makes the value of the show increase to becoming a masterpiece also do you dislike Mob Psycho animation definitely makes artistry better. Clean art will just look crappy if the animation is horrible. Violet Evergarden only looks as beautiful as it does because the animation was on the same par as the artistry. Never watched PingPong, but i enjoy Mob Psycho quite a bit, having rated the first season a 7/10 and the second an 8/10. A bit overrated i must say, but a pretty good anime nonetheless. The art in it isn't bad either, it has a descent shading and a good sense of tridimensionality. |
| @Loonitick I also have nothing against Nakamura either, it's just the cubes, i can't stand the cubes. @Whgedia Okay, will add it to my PTW, latelly i have been giving more and more space to "anime that decide to do something differently". deg said: @thewiru i got no idea what you meant by great character design then, give examples of what you meant I have no idea to which specific phrase of mine you're answering, so it is quite hard for me to do so. |
| To the OP: no xD. Artstyle is not more important than animation, not as a default. It depends, as usual with everything. But I do think that animation is sometimes overstated or at least too reduced to some fundamental of it. Like fluidity. Is it really that relevant to the overall aesthetic of the scene? Not always. And there's not always the perfect correspondence that more fluid and lively animation = visually more appealing or praiseworthy. Sometimes a slower pace works, a minimal animation evokes more than an exaggeration of movement, etc. Again, it depends on the mood, the kind of show, what it wants to prioritize and how. Having something moving a lot does not mean being automatically better than other show with a bigger focus on quieter compositions. |
thewiru said: deg said: @thewiru i got no idea what you meant by great character design then, give examples of what you meant I have no idea to which specific phrase of mine you're answering, so it is quite hard for me to do so. i meant the title of this thread give examples of an anime with great art but bad animation |
deg said: thewiru said: I have no idea to which specific phrase of mine you're answering, so it is quite hard for me to do so. i meant the title of this thread give examples of an anime with great art but bad animation Drifters, JoJo's, would be some easy examples. If we enter the realm of opinions, some people complain about Overlord's animation, also, Killing Bites, one of my favorite anime, has various parts where it chooses to do camera movements instead of animation, and it works. |
thewiru said: deg said: i meant the title of this thread give examples of an anime with great art but bad animation Drifters, JoJo's, would be some easy examples. If we enter the realm of opinions, some people complain about Overlord's animation, also, Killing Bites, one of my favorite anime, has various parts where it chooses to do camera movements instead of animation, and it works. welp i see now but i never bothered watching those 2 anime simply because of your reasoning on the thread title i just usually prefer better animation |
| your opinion is objectively wrong. |
| Inferno Cop must be a masterpiece according to this thread lol |
TodAboT said: deg said: Inferno Cop must be a masterpiece according to this thread lol I mean, it is. But not because of the reasons menrioned above. lol ye its very funny at least but its another example of this thread saying good art is better than good animation |
TodAboT said: deg said: lol ye its very funny at least but its another example of this thread saying good art is better than good animation Comedy doesn't really need good animation (Unless it's like Nichijou or something). As long as there is good timing, it doesn't matter. There are a lot of comedies with bad art that are still funny, too. lol ok but im relating Inferno Cop to the thread title |
| It depends on the genre, but generally the animation is more important imo. Also, a lot of shows with bad animation tend to have inconsistent art. |
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| Nice static art is what you've got manga for. |
| Baki (2018) didn't have great animation but the art made up for it. |
 ☆☆☆ "There's a huge difference between one and infinity. However, compared to the difference between existence and non-existence, one and infinite are nearly the same. I am the child destined to become the best witch... no... The greatest Creator in the world...!" -Maria Ushiromiya ☆☆☆ |
| For me art includes character design, animation, background and the quality of the art. Even if people refer to these as separate, when I watch an anime I look at them as one. Examples Character design + animation + quality art + background = Mahou Tsukai no Yome. Character design + Animation = Zetsuen no Tempest Character design - Hakuouki, Black butler And yeah separate them as much as you like, but to me they are one whole criteria. |
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| they are not mutually exclusive so its not a good comparison. I would say having a good storyline with good character development is more important than the animation (inclusive of the artwork). |
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| It should be a compromise between art, animation and what the title wants to say. For example usually drama doesn't need complex animated scenes but in some key moments of Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu there are some amazing sakuga moments that add to the atmosphere and enhance the experience. So neither of those elements is more important than the other, they must work together and be applied with the right dramatic timing. |
| Both of those things just get relegated to the same category when I rate anyway so it doesn't really matter. |
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
| While things like talking heads might seem like budget cuts, I also do not really like when a dialogue scene is needlessly chaotic in order to be "interesting". |
| good animation is probably more valuable in animation than ''good art'' look at mob psycho for instance but really its a combination of cinematography, direction and animation that really matters. Your art could look like Ping Pong and it wont matter if there is something of value there. |
| https://combosmooth.itch.io/ - I make free-to-play browser games for PC and I sell pixel art animation here |
| Both are equally as important. For the record, having simple (easier to animate) art is not the same as having bad art. |
| Eh, berserk 2016 has good art in some places but terrible animation which turned loads of people off it. |
| By art you mean details or how things look in stilled frames. But a big thing about animation is that they moves. If they dont movie fluidly, they might as well be a manga or an illustration. I think most ppl would disagree if you say the second last episode of naruto vs sasuke fight in part one isnt better than other episodes of the fight. You can have your own preference but there's a reason why animators choose to draw cubes for the sake of more fluid, energetic animation. Edit: People do complain static animation. It's either you didnt see that or it's not so much of "flaw" as trait of mediocrity. People might not complain about sao fights look boring but people praise mob psycho 100 for having insane high octane animation with crazy camerawork. Edit2: Hell people are already complaining about one punch man s2 looking bland when characters dont look too different from those in s1. It's because that the animation from that trailer looks nothing close to what we saw in s1. |
lunarxlunarApr 8, 2019 7:11 AM
| I think the OP is right. Bad art can affect my enjoyment of the show while bad animation can just get mildly annoying. I remember having the urge to pyuk when I watched SoraYori because of those atrociously disgusting character design, but I never reacted like that because of horrible animation. |
| Storyboard = Scripting >>> Animation = Artistic Direction A beautiful show can be as pretty as it wants, if it's hollow it is nothing more than eye candy you glance at and forget. |
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yes but remember the controversy around Pokemon Sun and Moon anime? lots hate the look of the simple character design and they call it ugly same with Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill there are haters of its simple character design too, heck even Mob Psycho is also called ugly by some just because of the simple character design |
dipperdolphin said: Eh, berserk 2016 has good art in some places but terrible animation which turned loads of people off it. No, it doesn't. Those close ups look terrible, the proprotions on these are back and they're too zoomed in, not to mention that it looks like they hired a Pink Pineaple to collour it because it also looks terrible. Also the hatches. |
| @Pylia I couldn't relate to any of your four examples, not at all. deg said: yes but remember the controversy around Pokemon Sun and Moon anime? lots hate the look of the simple character design and they call it ugly same with Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill there are haters of its simple character design too, heck even Mob Psycho is also called ugly by some just because of the simple character design No one nowadays says that either TTGL or Kill la Kill are ugly. dc22 said: Both are equally as important. For the record, having simple (easier to animate) art is not the same as having bad art. At first i would answer this with a certain level of sarcasm as in "Wow, it's almost as it was exactly what i said". But then i remember that i only emphasized that in other place i made this exact same discussion, and while i still say that in this thread, is in the middle of another answer and not easy to find, so it's understandable. Quoting myself: One can have simple character design and still have good art, some good examples would be HisoMaso or Kaiba. Mob Psycho, Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill have a very good art, i don't know what you're talking about. As for Ping Pong the Animation, the problem lies that every character is just ugly as sin, so it is more of a character design issue than an art one. You could put it in a different artstyle but the characters would still be ugly, since the problem does not lie in the art. |
thewiru said: Meh, I’d disagree. I’d certainly say the majority of it was terrible, but there was some decent art splattered around in it ruined by the animation.dipperdolphin said: Eh, berserk 2016 has good art in some places but terrible animation which turned loads of people off it. No, it doesn't. Those close ups look terrible, the proprotions on these are back and they're too zoomed in, not to mention that it looks like they hired a Pink Pineaple to collour it because it also looks terrible. Also the hatches. |
deg said: yes but remember the controversy around Pokemon Sun and Moon anime? lots hate the look of the simple character design and they call it ugly Can't speak for everyone, but I hate the design not because of the simplicity, but because it actually looks ugly. The art looks like it's from a slapstick comedy anime, nothing I would expect from an action adventure kid show or not. The characters look like they're making the "priceless reaction face", except they stay that way 24/7. |
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thewiru said: deg said: yes but remember the controversy around Pokemon Sun and Moon anime? lots hate the look of the simple character design and they call it ugly same with Gurren Lagann and Kill la Kill there are haters of its simple character design too, heck even Mob Psycho is also called ugly by some just because of the simple character design No one nowadays says that either TTGL or Kill la Kill are ugly. yes but im giving examples base on experience and observations so that includes old times |
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