Toaru Majutsu no Index III Episode 24 Discussion

Mar 24, 2019 10:55 AM

Shingster

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Jun 2015

4209

Damm that was one hell of entrance that Mugino had there. She's still crazy as ever huh. Hamazura's decision to try and make peace though sure was a surprise. The talk that between the two though sure was heartwarming due to the feelings that he had and his desire to return to how it was back then. Hmm to think that Lessar is a patriot though. Fiamma's own spells combined with that of index's sure made him a difficult opponent. Still Touma's arm being able to regen sure was an interesting turn of events. Touma's response to someone like Fiamma trying to save the world though was priceless. The Misaka clones are always so fun to see lol. Hope that Misaka will get to the battlefield at some point though. It will be awesome to see her fight alongside Touma.

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Mar 24, 2019 3:15 PM

#82

Elisile

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Mar 2019

48

Shingster said:
The talk that between the two though sure was heartwarming due to the feelings that he had and his desire to return to how it was back then.

That was actually my biggest problem with this episode. Miguno has turned crazy and A) Killed Frenda, B) Tried to kill Takitsubo, C) Tried to kill Hamazura, and D) is now trying to track down and kill both him and Takitsubo simultaneously. Yet, for no apparent reason that the anime shows, Hamazura is suddenly holding Miguno and begging her to let things be how they once were. But that makes zero sense, since the way things used to be involved her being a crazed nutjob who didn't care a lick for the lives of any of them, even before ITEM disbanded. So I don't even know what Hamazura is talking about when he references the "good old times". And meanwhile, as he's wasting all this time with Miguno, where is Takitsubo? The show has set us up to believe that she's the only one he cares about, so why is he suddenly forgetting about her to try and help Miguno, the woman who's only tried to harm him and Takitsubo for her own selfish gain since the beginning?

Look, if they didn't want Hamazura to pull the trigger while Miguno was down, I understand that. He would have been justified in killing her, of course, but if they wanted to show him having compassion, then that's fine. But the whole "I'm gonna reminisce about the non- existent good times with you, a murderous monster, while the girl I supposedly love is still god- knows- where and probably injured"..... Nah. Especially not when it wastes the entire first half of the episode.

Mar 24, 2019 3:56 PM

#83

Elisile

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Mar 2019

48

Botato said:
What you're missing is that, very simply, Mikoto is not a main character while Hamazura is.

Really? I always thought Mikoto was in the top 5 of main characters (along with Touma, Accelerator, Index, and Last Order). On the periphery of the core cast, you might have folks like Kanzaki, Stiyl, Itsuwa, Kuroko, Uiharu, etc. Then from there, you have characters which might not be regulars, but do have clear relevance to the storyline. These would be characters like Acqua, the English princess wielding Curtana, Sasha, Poggle, Fiamma, etc.

ITEM itself was never shown to have relevance to the broader storyline. Unless I missed something during that massive clustertruck of a Battle Royale arc, it seems like Hamazura just kinda popped in out of nowhere to be the love interest of Takitsubo and the raging target of Miguno. But I still haven't seen the anime (not talking about the LNs) explain how any of the ITEM/ Hamazura/ Miguno story is even relevant to the Magic vs. Science struggle, or the Touma vs. Fiamma battle.

Accelerator is there because he needs to help Last Order, and he'll need the help of magic to decipher those documents. Mikoto is there because she wants to help Touma. Hamazura is there because..... ? He had to get away from Miguno, and so he just happened to end up in Russia? Because that's all I got from this "throw 5,000 concepts at you every 30 seconds and hope you can make sense of it all before the next 5,000 concepts hit you in the next minute" anime.

I was able to keep up pretty well for the first two seasons, along with Railgun and the movie, but this thrid season has just been hard for me to follow completely. I get the general flow of what's going on, but now I feel like there must have been a bunch of key details that I missed earlier on in the season, back when every scene change was flipping between 1,000 different mercenary organizations we didn't even know about who were trying to all kill each other for.... reasons? I'll be honest that I could barely understand anything during that entire Battle Royale arc, and it must be having some sort of impact now, because apparently Mikoto, who has been one of the staples of this franchise since season 1, has consistently strong relevance to the plot, has even gotten her own spinoff, is maybe even more popular now than Touma himself, etc., is suddenly not a main character, whereas Hamazura, someone who, only while writing this, did I even remember that he appeared in the end of season 2, apparently is a main character all of a sudden. When did this flip- flop occur?
When did Mikoto become irrelevant and Hamazura become the star? Hell, even seeing the Amakusa show back up would seem to make more sense lol.

Sorry if it seems like I'm ranting. I'm just trying to explain why I'm so lost. Maybe I need to go back and re- watch the last episodes of season 2, because all I really remember from those was something about Accelerator joining GROUP and Mikoto's mom being really drunk, and just as I was writing this, I vaguely remember Touma confronting Hamazura at the very end, and I remember even being confused back then as to why on earth they were ending an entire season there.

ElisileMar 24, 2019 4:27 PM

Mar 24, 2019 7:45 PM

#84

Tiau

Offline

Oct 2018

271

Elisile said:

Shingster said:
The talk that between the two though sure was heartwarming due to the feelings that he had and his desire to return to how it was back then.

That was actually my biggest problem with this episode. Miguno has turned crazy and A) Killed Frenda, B) Tried to kill Takitsubo, C) Tried to kill Hamazura, and D) is now trying to track down and kill both him and Takitsubo simultaneously. Yet, for no apparent reason that the anime shows, Hamazura is suddenly holding Miguno and begging her to let things be how they once were. But that makes zero sense, since the way things used to be involved her being a crazed nutjob who didn't care a lick for the lives of any of them, even before ITEM disbanded. So I don't even know what Hamazura is talking about when he references the "good old times". And meanwhile, as he's wasting all this time with Miguno, where is Takitsubo? The show has set us up to believe that she's the only one he cares about, so why is he suddenly forgetting about her to try and help Miguno, the woman who's only tried to harm him and Takitsubo for her own selfish gain since the beginning?

Look, if they didn't want Hamazura to pull the trigger while Miguno was down, I understand that. He would have been justified in killing her, of course, but if they wanted to show him having compassion, then that's fine. But the whole "I'm gonna reminisce about the non- existent good times with you, a murderous monster, while the girl I supposedly love is still god- knows- where and probably injured"..... Nah. Especially not when it wastes the entire first half of the episode.

He's showing compassion, because if you remember Hamazura himself was practically forced to do terrible things by Academy City himself during his first appearance(ironically, his Skill Out group was a group for greater peace effectively). On another note, ITEM does hang out on downtime as friends, you see this in Railgun.

Mar 24, 2019 7:49 PM

#85

Tiau

Offline

Oct 2018

271

Elisile said:

Botato said:
What you're missing is that, very simply, Mikoto is not a main character while Hamazura is.

Really? I always thought Mikoto was in the top 5 of main characters (along with Touma, Accelerator, Index, and Last Order). On the periphery of the core cast, you might have folks like Kanzaki, Stiyl, Itsuwa, Kuroko, Uiharu, etc. Then from there, you have characters which might not be regulars, but do have clear relevance to the storyline. These would be characters like Acqua, the English princess wielding Curtana, Sasha, Poggle, Fiamma, etc.

ITEM itself was never shown to have relevance to the broader storyline. Unless I missed something during that massive clustertruck of a Battle Royale arc, it seems like Hamazura just kinda popped in out of nowhere to be the love interest of Takitsubo and the raging target of Miguno. But I still haven't seen the anime (not talking about the LNs) explain how any of the ITEM/ Hamazura/ Miguno story is even relevant to the Magic vs. Science struggle, or the Touma vs. Fiamma battle.

Accelerator is there because he needs to help Last Order, and he'll need the help of magic to decipher those documents. Mikoto is there because she wants to help Touma. Hamazura is there because..... ? He had to get away from Miguno, and so he just happened to end up in Russia? Because that's all I got from this "throw 5,000 concepts at you every 30 seconds and hope you can make sense of it all before the next 5,000 concepts hit you in the next minute" anime.

I was able to keep up pretty well for the first two seasons, along with Railgun and the movie, but this thrid season has just been hard for me to follow completely. I get the general flow of what's going on, but now I feel like there must have been a bunch of key details that I missed earlier on in the season, back when every scene change was flipping between 1,000 different mercenary organizations we didn't even know about who were trying to all kill each other for.... reasons? I'll be honest that I could barely understand anything during that entire Battle Royale arc, and it must be having some sort of impact now, because apparently Mikoto, who has been one of the staples of this franchise since season 1, has consistently strong relevance to the plot, has even gotten her own spinoff, is maybe even more popular now than Touma himself, etc., is suddenly not a main character, whereas Hamazura, someone who, only while writing this, did I even remember that he appeared in the end of season 2, apparently is a main character all of a sudden. When did this flip- flop occur?
When did Mikoto become irrelevant and Hamazura become the star? Hell, even seeing the Amakusa show back up would seem to make more sense lol.

Sorry if it seems like I'm ranting. I'm just trying to explain why I'm so lost. Maybe I need to go back and re- watch the last episodes of season 2, because all I really remember from those was something about Accelerator joining GROUP and Mikoto's mom being really drunk, and just as I was writing this, I vaguely remember Touma confronting Hamazura at the very end, and I remember even being confused back then as to why on earth they were ending an entire season there.

Well no, you wouldn't be wrong in saying Hamazura at this exact point and time has nothing to do with the story of GRS's shenanigans or Accelerator's conflict. But he himself exists because he's the closest you got to someone who's truly not involved and being impacted by everything, he's important because he's a wildcard that shouldn't really be doing the things he's doing so he's a unchecked factor in everything, in this arc in particular he gives you a insight on how everyone else is handling this war, but also one of the examples of Science and Magic characters teaming up(him and Acqua) which served to develop Acqua even more.
Mikoto never really was that important in OT, she's a side character here more so than Hamazura who as you can tell by now has been the protagonist of his own stories as we've went forward, she mostly just does supporting roles and is generally kept in the dark

Mar 24, 2019 9:04 PM

#86

Elisile

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Mar 2019

48

@Tiau Idk, maybe it's because I started with S1&2 of Railgun before even knowing that Index was a thing. So perhaps my perception is skewed. I generally viewed Index as the crossover between Touma and Mikoto's worlds, but from the perspective of Touma, whereas the Railgun spinoff was the view from Mikoto's side, due to her unexpected popularity in Index. I always thought that she and Touma were the two main protagonists, since they're the most popular and recognizable faces of the To Aru franchise, with Accelerator now running at a close thrid. But I guess not.

Mar 24, 2019 9:15 PM

#87

Heimur

Offline

Oct 2017

700

Elisile said:

Botato said:
What you're missing is that, very simply, Mikoto is not a main character while Hamazura is.

Really? I always thought Mikoto was in the top 5 of main characters (along with Touma, Accelerator, Index, and Last Order). On the periphery of the core cast, you might have folks like Kanzaki, Stiyl, Itsuwa, Kuroko, Uiharu, etc. Then from there, you have characters which might not be regulars, but do have clear relevance to the storyline. These would be characters like Acqua, the English princess wielding Curtana, Sasha, Poggle, Fiamma, etc.

The only main characters are Touma, Accelerator and Hamazura.
Index, Misaka, Last Order, etc are supporting characters.

Mar 24, 2019 11:38 PM

#88

Garymad

Offline

Oct 2018

2

No please, don't let Nishikiori touch NT. Index is ruin because of your shitty direct for overbudget fan-service priority.
Fuck You!!!!

Mar 26, 2019 4:52 AM

#89

TKMike

Offline

Jun 2014

226

Ooof, the Light Novel readers can only talk trash while not having clear answer to solve the issue they have lmao

I wouldnt even be surprised if the interpretation of one's individual is considered trash by other Light Novel readers.

Mar 26, 2019 5:45 AM

#90

RayReynolds

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Feb 2019

665

@Heimur because I think that decision is terrible, and speaking of the story of the novel itself and not of this adaptation, that these characters are the protagonists being only one remarkable that is accel

Mar 26, 2019 7:51 AM

#91

ap1001

Offline

Apr 2014

306

RayReynolds said:
@Heimur because I think that decision is terrible, and speaking of the story of the novel itself and not of this adaptation, that these characters are the protagonists being only one remarkable that is accel

I would say that is questionable, while a divisive opinion, Touma is considered memorable by many. Hamazura is arguable, but Touma is not.

The difference in roles as MC is the main difference between Touma and Accel at this point. It’s in my opinion the same as the Captain America vs Iron Man debate.

Of course this is solely focused on the novel.

Additionally, the decision to have these 3 as MC is objectively the right choice, they have skill sets different enough to not eat into the others roles. Mikoto for example runs into the issue of being useless due to presence of Accel, lacking a viewpoint on gods, and being too strong and detached from the common man’s issue. Essentially not strong enough or weak enough to carry her own unique perspective or bring anything to the table. That’s why she gets her own spin-off in the first place.

"You had no free will, you chased your vices along the same path as all of the others." - Shikieiki Yamaxanadu, Diamond in the rough

Mar 26, 2019 8:13 AM

#92

Tiau

Offline

Oct 2018

271

ap1001 said:

RayReynolds said:
@Heimur because I think that decision is terrible, and speaking of the story of the novel itself and not of this adaptation, that these characters are the protagonists being only one remarkable that is accel

Additionally, the decision to have these 3 as MC is objectively the right choice, they have skill sets different enough to not eat into the others roles. Mikoto for example runs into the issue of being useless due to presence of Accel, lacking a viewpoint on gods, and being too strong and detached from the common man’s issue. Essentially not strong enough or weak enough to carry her own unique perspective or bring anything to the table. That’s why she gets her own spin-off in the first place.

Well even then, Kuroko was the intended spinoff protag, Misaka was just chosen because Miki and others wanted to bank off her popularity.

Mar 26, 2019 10:51 AM

#93

Botato

Offline

Nov 2013

22765

Tiau said:

ap1001 said:

Additionally, the decision to have these 3 as MC is objectively the right choice, they have skill sets different enough to not eat into the others roles. Mikoto for example runs into the issue of being useless due to presence of Accel, lacking a viewpoint on gods, and being too strong and detached from the common man’s issue. Essentially not strong enough or weak enough to carry her own unique perspective or bring anything to the table. That’s why she gets her own spin-off in the first place.

Well even then, Kuroko was the intended spinoff protag, Misaka was just chosen because Miki and others wanted to bank off her popularity.

And that's a good thing. I dislike the way Kuroko is in half her scenes, if not more.

Mar 26, 2019 1:13 PM

#94

Tiau

Offline

Oct 2018

271

Botato said:

Tiau said:

Well even then, Kuroko was the intended spinoff protag, Misaka was just chosen because Miki and others wanted to bank off her popularity.

And that's a good thing. I dislike the way Kuroko is in half her scenes, if not more.

Kuroko is quite fine outside of the Railgun anime for obvious reasons, personally I liked it when she had the protagonist seat in the remnant arc.

Mar 26, 2019 2:36 PM

#95

Botato

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Nov 2013

22765

Tiau said:

Botato said:

And that's a good thing. I dislike the way Kuroko is in half her scenes, if not more.

Kuroko is quite fine outside of the Railgun anime for obvious reasons, personally I liked it when she had the protagonist seat in the remnant arc.

She's great when she's not lusting after Mikoto for the nth time in a terrible case of beating a dead horse.

Mar 27, 2019 7:19 AM

#96

DelusionalUzume

Offline

Apr 2013

521

Mugino doesn't dissapoint with her Crazy entries

just because I’ve gotten weaker, doesn’t mean that you got stronger, does it?

Apr 4, 2019 11:28 AM

#97

Nurguburu

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Aug 2017

10873

The scene with Touma's arm being cut off by Fiamma caught me off guard. It seems that he is looking terrified after Touma recovered his arm. So, Fiamma has a messiah complex.

I really liked Hamazura's monologue to Mugino. I think that she can't control her anger issues. She is being used by Aleister to kill Hamazura.

Can't wait for the next episode.

All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath.

Apr 5, 2019 12:37 PM

#98

tokidoki921

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Mar 2018

446

So I guess Misaka will arrive in time for the ending credits of the last episode or possibly next season or the one after that.

May 13, 2019 1:55 AM

#99

Sugram22

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Sep 2012

6626

Elisile said:
Am I the only one who genuinely does not understand why Hamazura is even still relevant?

maybe u don't know the source material like me, but i don't care why, time will tell why, not gonna bitch about it cause it doen't bother me

May 26, 2019 4:22 PM

#100

RafaelDeJongh

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May 2012

25827

Amazing episode, the moment his arm was cut off man that sure was something! Really lovely development and I do wonder what will happen next!

Jul 4, 2019 10:04 AM

#101

Playcool

Supreme Tsundere

Offline

Nov 2012

4018

Tiau said:

TomHazard said:
The whole Fiamma LPSaD and Touma IT/Dragon were butchered... Wow fuck off

I thought it was done well

Same, except some cringy faces, like really retarded shit, this was one of the best episodes in like the last 4-5 eps.
I mean it could have been handled better, but at least Touma x Fiamma was kinda thrilling at some parts (action wasnt BAD).
Mugino was kinda cringy, they fucked it up, needed much better execution and less derpy faces!
LN reader here.

Jul 15, 2019 1:20 PM

#102

Dull_Lull

Offline

Jul 2013

4690

Mugino has went full yandere on Hamazura.

Hamazura talk no jutsu! Lets become ITEM again after almost dying in your hands a lot of times uwu. I still can't believe he's an actual MC omg... why just why...

Dull_LullJul 15, 2019 1:49 PM

May 4, 2020 10:44 AM

#103

PrOxAnto

Offline

Jan 2013

6646

I could've seen Mugino becoming one of the more awesome characters but this season is just mediocre and therefore we see all these characters not get the proper development.

I definitely see the potential and that's probably why everyone's saying to just read the novel.

Even the ending with Touma and Fiamma was good especially compared to this season's standards.

Oct 23, 2020 4:10 AM

#104

Gator

Offline

Apr 2013

35829

I didn't get why Mugino was fighting Hamazura in the first place, so now I also don't get why they made peace either. But that just fits the whole show I guess, nothing makes sense.

Dec 18, 2020 12:31 AM

#105

Rob

Offline

Dec 2012

5033

Accelerator.
Hyouka.... is fading?
She's gone.
WTF! Its Shizuri!
Almost half her body is...
Dat headbutt.
Shizuri stopped trying to kill Shiage.
Index attacking Stiyl.
Laura oppai.
Sasha and Lessar.
Touma and Fiamma.
Oh shit! Dat satelite fire.
OH SHIT! TOUMA'S ARM WAS CUT OFF!
He absorbed it.
The sky!
Touma is leaking.
Fiamma's attack stopped?
HOLY SHIT! Somethings coming out of Touma!
Imagine Breaker?
Touma regrew his arm!
Biri-Biri.
Dat ending.

When I saw that power come out of Touma, I said "Maybe the Imagine Breaker wasn't the power in our right hand, but the power we had within us this whole time." then Touma rejects it to get IB back. But for a whole now, I wondered if Touma had more power inside him other than IB.

With Shizuri not trying to kill Shiage, I will miss HA-MA-ZU-RA!

RobDec 18, 2020 12:35 AM

If you see that my post is exactly 1 month old (or more) from when it was posted... Don't waste your time, especially when you want to reply with something petty & insignificant. Assume that I've moved on (because I have).

Apr 16, 2021 3:30 AM

#106

FragmantLemon

Offline

Jan 2017

2824

The backgrounds in this ep was really nice, as with the BGM during the Touma vs Fiamma scene

Accel's one step closer to his goal, Hamazura finally made up with Mugino. It's time for the final climax of the WW3 arc

Jun 26, 2021 12:37 PM

#107

Gendolfas

Offline

Aug 2018

3272

Hm, so we got some glimpse, at what actually Touma's right hand might be?.. Touma called it some kind of "being".. Inside himself.. I wonder, who implanted this being inside Touma in the first place.. And who is that being..

Nov 27, 2021 2:00 AM

#108

G_Spark233

Offline

Dec 2013

14940

Mugino really came out of nowhere but at least the two finally stopping their pointless fight was nice.

Touma vs Fiamma was cooler than I expected. Seeing more of imagine breaker has me interested in what it exactly is. Too bad we won't be learning more anytime soon.

Jun 4, 2023 12:58 PM

#109

Softhenic03

Offline

May 2020

10370

There was something really wrong with this episode, and it was the entire first half. Why and how is Hamazura still alive??? Not once, not twice but THRICE Mugino came after him and everytime he simply blasted her.. isn't she a level five? Fourth ranked level five? Then how? If it's once then it might be understandable, but three fucking times??? Hamazura's plot armour is 100x more heavy than that of Touma, I mean atleast Touma sustain injuries, but Hamazura... lmaoooo nothing.

Now to the main thing, which was Touma and Fiamma's final confrontation in the end.. ruling over the world thing aside, it was actually quite shocking when Fiamma just tore off Touma's right arm like that.. but hey it grew back again, and that wasn't surprising. He again started delivering speeches smh.

Also that invisible thing a kind of mystery? Then let it be. Not interested.

Jun 11, 2023 9:51 AM

#110

MizuhoKamui

Offline

Nov 2010

6129

It was so weird that Mugino went bonkers because Hamazura didn't want Takitsubo to use those crystals and her power to track down Kakine so that she could have her revenge on him. Then she lost to Hamazura 1v1 because of that. And since then, she has had this obsession with killing Hamazura, and she keeps failing even though her power is OP. How hard is it to point and shoot those laser beams?

I think Mugino is begging Hamazura to kiss her, lol. Anyway, their entire situation felt pointless.

I wish they made Fiamma's goal evil because, TBH, I'm rooting for him to win. I like his plans, even though he's a narcissist. He's the lesser evil of our current God, both a sadist and a narcissist. At least Fiamma is trying his best to change the world into something better at the expense of some people. Meanwhile, protagonists like Touma are happy to maintain the status quo and save only the people within his circle. What about the other half of the 8 billion people struggling to make ends meet thanks to late-stage capitalism? More than half of the world is suffering; you don't need to travel to see that.

Nov 28, 2023 2:02 PM

#111

WELLERM

Offline

Nov 2023

2793

I wonder what the angel really is!

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