Forum Settings
Forums

Why do anime usually have such poor worldbuilding?

Pages (3) [1] 2 3 »
Post New Reply
#1
Feb 27, 5:31 AM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 0
If I have to suffer through another insert generic fantasy MMORPG inspired setting ala Goblin Slayer, Shield Hero, Isekai Smartphone, Re;Zero, TenSura, Konosuba, and so on, I'll go crazy!

Here you got a medium which on paper you can write about absolutely freaking EVERYTHING, and still most of the authors prefer to stick to their copy paste generic fantasy RPG world with zero to no effort. It's not even the case that they can't do it if they try! Look at Spice & Wolf, Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere, or even Zero no Tsukaima. All of which feature some kind of distinct attempt of lore and worldbuilding going on, which doesn't boil down to insert stupid gaming mechanics or terminology and be done!

It's not even the case only with Light Novels, modern shounen series also suffer from it!We went from Naruto One Piece and Bleach to MyHeroAcademia, Fairy Tail, and Black Clover!

PROVE ME WRONG!
Am I the only one who is annoyed at this?
 
#2
Feb 27, 5:38 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4479
What are you talking about? There are a lot of anime with great world building.
 
#3
Feb 27, 5:39 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 13232
Then don't watch anime that lack world building, its that simple
 
#4
Feb 27, 5:39 AM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 0
Maneki-Mew said:
What are you talking about? There are a lot of anime with great world building.

Name some examples then, don't just leave a mystical vague response!

Klad said:
Then don't watch anime that lack world building, its that simple

How am I supposed to know which do and which don't if I do not at least try them out, wow.
 
#5
Feb 27, 5:42 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 13232
DrakoWiz said:
Maneki-Mew said:
What are you talking about? There are a lot of anime with great world building.

Name some examples then, don't just leave a mystical vague response!

Klad said:
Then don't watch anime that lack world building, its that simple

How am I supposed to know which do and which don't if I do not at least try them out, wow.
By asking other people or doing research on that anime beforehand?
 
#6
Feb 27, 5:43 AM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 0
Klad said:
DrakoWiz said:

Name some examples then, don't just leave a mystical vague response!


How am I supposed to know which do and which don't if I do not at least try them out, wow.
By asking other people or doing research on that anime beforehand?

Yet it is easier just to watch the first episode and see for myself than ask others which could not share my preferences or understanding?
 
#7
Feb 27, 5:44 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 430
DrakoWiz said:
Maneki-Mew said:
What are you talking about? There are a lot of anime with great world building.

Name some examples then, don't just leave a mystical vague response!

Made in abyss is an obvious answer , also i don't think Konosuba needs any worldbuilding , you watch that shit to see the main cast being idiots .
 
#8
Feb 27, 5:45 AM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 1021
I think the setting is not as prioritized as the actual story and characters for many anime which results in a lack of world building. Shorter series do not have as much time to do this also which may also contribute to it.
 
#9
Feb 27, 5:47 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1119
DrakoWiz said:
Maneki-Mew said:
What are you talking about? There are a lot of anime with great world building.

Name some examples then, don't just leave a mystical vague response!

Klad said:
Then don't watch anime that lack world building, its that simple

How am I supposed to know which do and which don't if I do not at least try them out, wow.

gintama, mob psycho 100 etc. these animes have fucking great worldbuilding. It is your fault if you haven't watched this. Most of the anime you mentioned were either isekais or mainstream shounen. there are many gems out there, you just need to pick them.


"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost."

 
Feb 27, 5:47 AM
uwu

Offline
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1060
The Aria franchise has god tier world building



“Belief bends reality.”
 
Feb 27, 5:47 AM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 0
BourBon-7so said:
DrakoWiz said:

Name some examples then, don't just leave a mystical vague response!

Made in abyss is an obvious answer , also i don't think Konosuba needs any worldbuilding , you watch that shit to see the main cast being idiots .

Ok, added it. Heard it was a Kaiba wannabe tho.

Almost_Satan said:
The Aria franchise has god tier world building

Added!

@thevagus
Gintama is too long, tried like 30 episodes, did not find it funny. May check Mob Psycho.
Also I could have added Berserk, LoGH, FMAB, and Gundam but .... ehh, I already did here.
Modified by removed-user, Feb 27, 5:50 AM
 
Feb 27, 5:49 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 780
apart from rezero and konosuba they are just garbage. konosuba is a comedy/parody and still has better world building than garbage like incel hero, goblin slayer and slime. rezero focuses on the mc's development and waifus
 
Feb 27, 5:53 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1119
@DrakoWiz you shouldn't drop gintama just after 30 episodes. atleast give it a try until benizakura arc which is about episode 48 and the show after that is pure gold.


"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost."

 
Feb 27, 5:55 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 430
[quote=DrakoWiz message=57031531]
BourBon-7so said:
DrakoWiz said:

Name some examples then, don't just leave a mystical vague response!

Made in abyss is an obvious answer , also i don't think Konosuba needs any worldbuilding , you watch that shit to see the main cast being idiots .

Ok, added it. Heard it was a Kaiba wannabe tho.

haven't seen Kaiba before so i can't answer that , Hope you enjoy it .

 
Feb 27, 5:57 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 761
Idk if it's necessarily Re:Zero's fault that there's a lack of worldbuilding. Apparently it comes from a web novel and when they adapted it to a light novel and anime, the editor asked the author to push the world building back to a later arc in the series. That said, the pacing is still questionable.

Plus Konosuba is a comedy so I don't expect there to be consistent worldbuilding.

Mostly I agree otherwise, Goblin Slayer felt really generic, I'll never watch Isekai smartphone, etc.

I think part of it is that they want to hook readers in before doing any worldbuilding.

I'm level on mal-badges. View my badges.
 
Feb 27, 5:58 AM
Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 10488
Naruto
One Piece
Hunter x Hunter (2011)
Boku no Hero Academia
91 Days
Holy heck I just noticed that the only ones with a good worldbuilding are the popular known ones...except 91 Days. Anyway, these have a great worldbuilding.
 
Feb 27, 6:01 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4479
DrakoWiz said:
Maneki-Mew said:
What are you talking about? There are a lot of anime with great world building.

Name some examples then, don't just leave a mystical vague response!

You are only speaking about some Isekais, but that copy-paste fantasy world is not a "problem" of anime alone. There are tons of copy-paste Tolkien rip-off novels in the west too.

Okay, I only can name high fantasy-like settings and others except science fiction and urban fantasy etc., I personally found interesting and appealing to me, so of course I'm kinda biased for them (no order):

Fullmetal Alchemist - A steampunk world with alchemy powers. There are a lot, a lot of details to them and it's a great worldbuilding.
Attack on Titan - A special setting between high fantasy and steampunk, it's imo pretty original and the author seemed to overthink a lot of details, also from the daily life in the world.
Houseki no Kuni - Never have seen something like that. It's about gems, who look like people, in a future world without humans.
Shinsekai Yori - Also a very special setting in an utopian future and people have powers and live in small villages in a seemingly peaceful world.
Made in Abyss - Very special setting with an abyss people want to explore. There are a lot of interesting creatures and plants and the author put a lot of details into it.
Children of the Whales - An utopian island with people, who have magic powers, but in exchange to that, they will die early. I think their society is very interesting too.
D.Gray-man - Pretty dark steampunk world with demons and teenager from an order fighting against these demons, which are reincarnated souls.
The Promised Neverland - A seemingly peaceful orphanage, but the kids find out they are demon food and try to escape and survive.
12 Kingdoms - It's on first glance a normal isekai fantasy world with mythological creatures etc., but their designs are really creative and you see creatures you normally wouldn't see in such a world. Also it's a lot about politics there.
Inuyasha - Also an Isekai, but the female protagonists lands in a Japanese medieval age with a lot of demons and Japanese mythology.
Dororo - Same, Japanese medieval age with mythological creatures.
Mo Dao Zu Shi - Chinese medieval story with dark fantasy.
Magi - It's an arabic-esque adventure with magic and all.
Arslan Senki - A "normal" historical war story, but it's not european
Shoukoku no Altair - Same, it's a turkish-esque setting
Akatsuki no Yona - Same, it's Korean and has also fantasy in it

I bet I forgot a lot. xD

There are a bunch of interesting scifi and urban fantasy settings too imo. And some great dystopia.
Modified by Maneki-Mew, Feb 27, 6:10 AM
 
Feb 27, 6:05 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 13232
DrakoWiz said:
Klad said:
By asking other people or doing research on that anime beforehand?

Yet it is easier just to watch the first episode and see for myself than ask others which could not share my preferences or understanding?
Okay then? That sounds like your own problem
 
Feb 27, 6:11 AM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 0
For all of you that say Konosuba is comedy so there should not be wordbuilding, remember Slayers? It is the same thing, but older and better.

Maneki-Mew said:
DrakoWiz said:

Name some examples then, don't just leave a mystical vague response!

You are only speaking about some Isekais, but that copy-paste fantasy world is not a "problem" of anime alone. There are tons of copy-paste Tolkien rip-off novels in the west too.

Okay, I only can name high fantasy-like settings and others except science fiction and urban fantasy etc., I personally found interesting and appealing to me, so of course I'm kinda biased for them (no order):

Fullmetal Alchemist - A steampunk world with alchemy powers. There are a lot, a lot of details to them and it's a great worldbuilding.
Attack on Titan - A special setting between high fantasy and steampunk, it's imo pretty original and the author seemed to overthink a lot of details, also from the daily life in the world.
Houseki no Kuni - Never have seen something like that. It's about gems, who look like people, in a future world without humans.
Shinsekai Yori - Also a very special setting in an utopian future and people have powers and live in small villages in a seemingly peaceful world.
Made in Abyss - Very special setting with an abyss people want to explore. There are a lot of interesting creatures and plants and the author put a lot of details into it.
Children of the Whales - An utopian island with people, who have magic powers, but in exchange to that, they will die early. I think their society is very interesting too.
D.Gray-man - Pretty dark steampunk world with demons and teenager from an order fighting against these demons, which are reincarnated souls.
The Promised Neverland - A seemingly peaceful orphanage, but the kids find out they are demon food and try to escape and survive.
12 Kingdoms - It's on first glance a normal isekai fantasy world with mythological creatures etc., but their designs are really creative and you see creatures you normally wouldn't see in such a world. Also it's a lot about politics there.
Inuyasha - Also an Isekai, but the female protagonists lands in a Japanese medieval age with a lot of demons and Japanese mythology.
Dororo - Same, Japanese medieval age with mythological creatures.
Mo Dao Zu Shi - Chinese medieval story with dark fantasy.
Magi - It's an arabic-esque adventure with magic and all.
Arslan Senki - A "normal" historical war story, but it's not european
Shoukoku no Altair - Same, it's a turkish-esque setting
Akatsuki no Yona - Same, it's Korean and has also fantasy in it

I bet I forgot a lot. xD

There are a bunch of interesting scifi and urban fantasy settings too imo. And some great dystopia.


I never said that only anime suffers from that. I've read plenty of high fantasy novel series, and at worst they are still better at it than anime at average.
Most you mentioned I've seen, or are based on older shows. I guess I should have specified, I mean modern stuff, I know most of the old.

Mo Dao Zu Shi seems interesting tho.
Modified by removed-user, Feb 27, 6:15 AM
 
Feb 27, 6:15 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 980
the worldbuilding in the tatami galaxy is pretty great, same for haibane renmei
 
Feb 27, 6:15 AM
Offline
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 31253
Fairy Tail still has better worldbuilding than Bleach to be honest and Horizon in the middle of nowhere was a terribly executed show from the start, and what I've seen of it was pretty much the opposite of good worldbuilding. It was rushed, confusing and trying to do way too much in way too little time. I feel like OP is mistaking setting/concept with actual worldbuilding based on him just complaining about 'generic settings' multiple times. But setting =/= worldbuilding. You can have good or bad or no worldbuilding in any kind of setting.

That also explains the generic isekai/fantasy hatred. Plenty of fantasy/isekai have pretty good worldbuilding, like Overlord and Log Horizon, even Death March was decent in that regard, but they do all have fairly similar fantasy settings, albeit they can still differ a lot in tone and focus. A lot of them also don't need worldbuilding, like Grimgar or Konosuba or Goblin Slayer, because they're trying to do different things.

I think it's very reductive to just judge every show solely by its worldbuilding. There is a lot you can do in a story without focusing on just that. Even the positive examples you mentioned don't really focus a lot on worldbuilding, like Spice and Wolf, so I can't really relate to your obsession. The appeal of that show surely lies elsewhere, in the character dynamics, dialogue and all that great stuff.

So yeah as always it's never a good idea to just care about one thing and then expect it from every single show without even trying to understand what they are trying to do and whether you need worldbuilding for that. You don't need it in comedies or introspective character dramas or romance etc... I'd much rather shows like that focus on being good at what they are trying to do instead of cramming in random world building elements just to please someone like OP who seems to have no other interest.

There's still plenty of shows who do focus on worldbuilding and do a good job at it. Stuff like Juuni Kokuki or El Hazard have pretty great and unique fantasy/isekai settings if you ask me. Then there is random stuff like Magi (modern battle shounen with good worldbuilding), Altair (classic swords & empires story with a lot of focus on worldbuilding) or even less typical examples like Banana Fish, JoJo Part 4 and Golden Kamuy which do a good or even great job at expanding the world they're set in.
DrakoWiz said:
Klad said:
By asking other people or doing research on that anime beforehand?

Yet it is easier just to watch the first episode and see for myself than ask others which could not share my preferences or understanding?


You can't judge worldbuilding after 1 or 2 episodes anyway, it's something that happens over time. It's a process, hence it is worldbuild-ing, and not just 'worldbuild' or whatever. So watching an episode doesn't give you any information about how good the worldbuilding will be. I'd say it's more efficient to just ask for recs based on worldbuilding if it's that important to you.

Listen, everybody wants change, don't nobody want to change though
don't nobody want to pray, till they got something to pray for
now everybody's gonna die, but don't everybody live though
 
Feb 27, 6:16 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1247
As much as I hate it, I must admit that One Piece has great world building.. It is not the same thing with Naruto and Bleach though ...

About RPG sekai, I am getting tired of it too, but I think they will keep making another ones as long as idiot people out there keep watching and reading (LN) them.. I like some of it though like ReZero, Log Horizon and of course Konosuba (but it is because that is technically a parody) ...
Modified by Jim_Heart, Feb 27, 6:21 AM
 
Feb 27, 6:16 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 828
DrakoWiz said:
If I have to suffer through another insert generic fantasy MMORPG inspired setting ala Goblin Slayer, Shield Hero, Isekai Smartphone, Re;Zero, TenSura, Konosuba, and so on, I'll go crazy!


Because you're obviously watching (and insisting on) the wrong kind of anime.

Hereby I declare the thread locked.

To name a few that Maneki-Mew didn't mention and have decent world-building and that aren't set in generic pseudo-medieval RPG worlds:

Kemono no Souja Erin
Mahoutsukai no Yome
Kekkai Sensen
Hakumei to Mikochi (good anime but the manga is better)
Tanoshii Muumin Ikka
Monogatari Series
Mushishi
Kino no Tabi
Haibane Renmei
Gankutsuou

I heard Natsume Yuujinchou is good, too. Also Yakusoku no Neverland.

Movies:
Wolf Children
Sayonara no Asa ni Yakusoku no Hana wo Kazarou
Almost everything by Ghibli

Some manga:
Blame! (probably the most impressive I've seen in the medium, as the world is built solely by the art and mostly silent narrative)
Dorohedoro
Tongari Boushi no Atelier
Ran to Haiiro no Sekai
Somali to Mori no Kamisama
Chimoguri Ringo to Kingyobachi Otoko (not a fan, but got some crazy ideas that might be your cup of tea, and fantastic art)
Modified by Satyr_icon, Feb 27, 6:21 AM
 
Feb 27, 6:17 AM
Offline
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 31253
DrakoWiz said:
For all of you that say Konosuba is comedy so there should not be wordbuilding, remember Slayers? It is the same thing, but older and better.

Maneki-Mew said:

You are only speaking about some Isekais, but that copy-paste fantasy world is not a "problem" of anime alone. There are tons of copy-paste Tolkien rip-off novels in the west too.

Okay, I only can name high fantasy-like settings and others except science fiction and urban fantasy etc., I personally found interesting and appealing to me, so of course I'm kinda biased for them (no order):

Fullmetal Alchemist - A steampunk world with alchemy powers. There are a lot, a lot of details to them and it's a great worldbuilding.
Attack on Titan - A special setting between high fantasy and steampunk, it's imo pretty original and the author seemed to overthink a lot of details, also from the daily life in the world.
Houseki no Kuni - Never have seen something like that. It's about gems, who look like people, in a future world without humans.
Shinsekai Yori - Also a very special setting in an utopian future and people have powers and live in small villages in a seemingly peaceful world.
Made in Abyss - Very special setting with an abyss people want to explore. There are a lot of interesting creatures and plants and the author put a lot of details into it.
Children of the Whales - An utopian island with people, who have magic powers, but in exchange to that, they will die early. I think their society is very interesting too.
D.Gray-man - Pretty dark steampunk world with demons and teenager from an order fighting against these demons, which are reincarnated souls.
The Promised Neverland - A seemingly peaceful orphanage, but the kids find out they are demon food and try to escape and survive.
12 Kingdoms - It's on first glance a normal isekai fantasy world with mythological creatures etc., but their designs are really creative and you see creatures you normally wouldn't see in such a world. Also it's a lot about politics there.
Inuyasha - Also an Isekai, but the female protagonists lands in a Japanese medieval age with a lot of demons and Japanese mythology.
Dororo - Same, Japanese medieval age with mythological creatures.
Mo Dao Zu Shi - Chinese medieval story with dark fantasy.
Magi - It's an arabic-esque adventure with magic and all.
Arslan Senki - A "normal" historical war story, but it's not european
Shoukoku no Altair - Same, it's a turkish-esque setting
Akatsuki no Yona - Same, it's Korean and has also fantasy in it

I bet I forgot a lot. xD

There are a bunch of interesting scifi and urban fantasy settings too imo. And some great dystopia.


I never said that only anime suffers from that. I've read plenty of high fantasy novel series, and at worst they are still better at it than anime at average.
Most you mentioned I've seen, or are based on older shows. I guess I should have specified, I mean modern stuff, I know most of the old.

Mo Dao Zu Shi seems interesting tho.



almost all of the stuff they listed are modern anime tho. There's maybe 2 or 3 from before 2010, it doesn't get much more modern than that list of recommendations.

Listen, everybody wants change, don't nobody want to change though
don't nobody want to pray, till they got something to pray for
now everybody's gonna die, but don't everybody live though
 
Feb 27, 6:22 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 893
I disagree on Naruto especially, it has decent enough World Building with the Background Lore of the Chakra Fruit, the Creation of Ninjas, the History of Ninjas, the different Countries and Villages and their governments and motivations, although we mainly explored Konoha and some Suna, it was definitely there and it was pretty decent too, the different Elements Ninjutsu Chakra etc are also all a part of what makes the Ninja World.
I wouldn't say One Piece has bad WB either, i don't like the Show and i goddamn hate the pacing and character Design but the WB is there.

From the Isekai Titles you mentioned in your first post i'll agree except for Tensura, Konosuba because not every Show needs World Building, it really depends on what the Focus of a Show is and for Main Comedy as Focus Characters and Dialogue is more important than World Building and Story. As for Tensura, there is decent World Building but it isn't told well, a lot of details are missed that would be necessary to understand it better.. so yeah. I'll agree on the rest of the Shounen and Isekai mentioned..
 
Feb 27, 6:28 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4479
DrakoWiz said:
For all of you that say Konosuba is comedy so there should not be wordbuilding, remember Slayers? It is the same thing, but older and better.

Maneki-Mew said:

You are only speaking about some Isekais, but that copy-paste fantasy world is not a "problem" of anime alone. There are tons of copy-paste Tolkien rip-off novels in the west too.

Okay, I only can name high fantasy-like settings and others except science fiction and urban fantasy etc., I personally found interesting and appealing to me, so of course I'm kinda biased for them (no order):

Fullmetal Alchemist - A steampunk world with alchemy powers. There are a lot, a lot of details to them and it's a great worldbuilding.
Attack on Titan - A special setting between high fantasy and steampunk, it's imo pretty original and the author seemed to overthink a lot of details, also from the daily life in the world.
Houseki no Kuni - Never have seen something like that. It's about gems, who look like people, in a future world without humans.
Shinsekai Yori - Also a very special setting in an utopian future and people have powers and live in small villages in a seemingly peaceful world.
Made in Abyss - Very special setting with an abyss people want to explore. There are a lot of interesting creatures and plants and the author put a lot of details into it.
Children of the Whales - An utopian island with people, who have magic powers, but in exchange to that, they will die early. I think their society is very interesting too.
D.Gray-man - Pretty dark steampunk world with demons and teenager from an order fighting against these demons, which are reincarnated souls.
The Promised Neverland - A seemingly peaceful orphanage, but the kids find out they are demon food and try to escape and survive.
12 Kingdoms - It's on first glance a normal isekai fantasy world with mythological creatures etc., but their designs are really creative and you see creatures you normally wouldn't see in such a world. Also it's a lot about politics there.
Inuyasha - Also an Isekai, but the female protagonists lands in a Japanese medieval age with a lot of demons and Japanese mythology.
Dororo - Same, Japanese medieval age with mythological creatures.
Mo Dao Zu Shi - Chinese medieval story with dark fantasy.
Magi - It's an arabic-esque adventure with magic and all.
Arslan Senki - A "normal" historical war story, but it's not european
Shoukoku no Altair - Same, it's a turkish-esque setting
Akatsuki no Yona - Same, it's Korean and has also fantasy in it

I bet I forgot a lot. xD

There are a bunch of interesting scifi and urban fantasy settings too imo. And some great dystopia.

I never said that only anime suffers from that. I've read plenty of high fantasy novel series, and at worst they are still better at it than anime at average.
Most you mentioned I've seen, or are based on older shows. I guess I should have specified, I mean modern stuff, I know most of the old.

Mo Dao Zu Shi seems interesting tho.

Okay you are saying that, but what actually did you think you could expect from a title like "In another world with my smartphone"? xD
Such things are not the average imo.

At least some of them are pretty new, like 2010-2012+.
Okay, I see. There are actually a lot of the generic fantasy worlds and isekai protagonists, but I view it like that: I don't plan to watch too many anime from a season anyway. So I just pick a few, which look interesting to me. There are always 1-4 anime that catch my interest and I always find a few inbetween all of the others that don't look interesting to me / inbetween of the isekais / generic fantasy, ecchi/harem-stuff and moe-fluffs.
There are actually not so many of them in comparison to the more original ones. At least, it's not like you couldn't find anything else.
 
Feb 27, 6:33 AM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 0
Pullman said:


Fairy Tail still has better worldbuilding than Bleach to be honest and Horizon in the middle of nowhere was a terribly executed show from the start, and what I've seen of it was pretty much the opposite of good worldbuilding. It was rushed, confusing and trying to do way too much in way too little time. I feel like OP is mistaking setting/concept with actual worldbuilding based on him just complaining about 'generic settings' multiple times. But setting =/= worldbuilding. You can have good or bad or no worldbuilding in any kind of setting.

I'll disagree. Even if FT has a larger world, they do not do anything with it. In Bleach the world is smaller, but they do explore the other regions at least. Also for Horizon, I mostly meant the Light Novel, the anime adaptation wa confusing yes, but you see that was because the light novel is a sequel to a previous one, Owari no Chronicle, and hence you need to at least be familiar with what goes on. Hmm, that is why I gave examples like isekais which are set in their own fictional world, and not some random urban setting anime, now did I?

That also explains the generic isekai/fantasy hatred. Plenty of fantasy/isekai have pretty good worldbuilding, like Overlord and Log Horizon, even Death March was decent in that regard, but they do all have fairly similar fantasy settings, albeit they can still differ a lot in tone and focus. A lot of them also don't need worldbuilding, like Grimgar or Konosuba or Goblin Slayer, because they're trying to do different things.

I already gave examples of the good and bad.

I think it's very reductive to just judge every show solely by its worldbuilding. There is a lot you can do in a story without focusing on just that. Even the positive examples you mentioned don't really focus a lot on worldbuilding, like Spice and Wolf, so I can't really relate to your obsession. The appeal of that show surely lies elsewhere, in the character dynamics, dialogue and all that great stuff.

Excuse me, but when I watch a show set in it own fictional world, I expect smt there. Really, Spice and Wolf can't? Have you read the Light Novel? It has a lot of worldbuilding going on. It's own cities, cultures, history.

So yeah as always it's never a good idea to just care about one thing and then expect it from every single show without even trying to understand what they are trying to do and whether you need worldbuilding for that. You don't need it in comedies or introspective character dramas or romance etc... I'd much rather shows like that focus on being good at what they are trying to do instead of cramming in random world building elements just to please someone like OP who seems to have no other interest.

We ain't talking about every anime here, just about anime set in their own worlds where it is expected to at least have some worldbuilding going on? You are just misunderstanding and coming to your baseless conclusions putting words into my mouth I did not say. Do you disagree that settings set in a medieval world do not need worldbuilding then? If they are historical I can agree, but when they are fictional they do infact need to have smt there.

There's still plenty of shows who do focus on worldbuilding and do a good job at it. Stuff like Juuni Kokuki or El Hazard have pretty great and unique fantasy/isekai settings if you ask me. Then there is random stuff like Magi (modern battle shounen with good worldbuilding), Altair (classic swords & empires story with a lot of focus on worldbuilding) or even less typical examples like Banana Fish, JoJo Part 4 and Golden Kamuy which do a good or even great job at expanding the world they're set in.

Like now you get to the actual point of my post, wow. And I agree here, these have what I want. I still do not understand why you felt the need to demean me and make an ass of your self, but oh well I guess.

DrakoWiz said:

Yet it is easier just to watch the first episode and see for myself than ask others which could not share my preferences or understanding?


You can't judge worldbuilding after 1 or 2 episodes anyway, it's something that happens over time. It's a process, hence it is worldbuild-ing, and not just 'worldbuild' or whatever. So watching an episode doesn't give you any information about how good the worldbuilding will be. I'd say it's more efficient to just ask for recs based on worldbuilding if it's that important to you.

Then a few episodes. Do not take it 100% literal, jeez. I can get a basic understanding of the concept of the show and if I seem to enjoy it I will stick around, even if I do not, I'll give it another few episodes if it has some intriguing ideas before I give up.
 
Feb 27, 6:37 AM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 0
Daphi said:
I disagree on Naruto especially, it has decent enough World Building with the Background Lore of the Chakra Fruit, the Creation of Ninjas, the History of Ninjas, the different Countries and Villages and their governments and motivations, although we mainly explored Konoha and some Suna, it was definitely there and it was pretty decent too, the different Elements Ninjutsu Chakra etc are also all a part of what makes the Ninja World.
I wouldn't say One Piece has bad WB either, i don't like the Show and i goddamn hate the pacing and character Design but the WB is there.

From the Isekai Titles you mentioned in your first post i'll agree except for Tensura, Konosuba because not every Show needs World Building, it really depends on what the Focus of a Show is and for Main Comedy as Focus Characters and Dialogue is more important than World Building and Story. As for Tensura, there is decent World Building but it isn't told well, a lot of details are missed that would be necessary to understand it better.. so yeah. I'll agree on the rest of the Shounen and Isekai mentioned..

But I meant Naruto as a good example? I meant the big three as GOOD EXAMPLES. Man! I meant how battle shounen used to have original and unique worldbuilding, but now do not.

Pullman said:
DrakoWiz said:
For all of you that say Konosuba is comedy so there should not be wordbuilding, remember Slayers? It is the same thing, but older and better.



I never said that only anime suffers from that. I've read plenty of high fantasy novel series, and at worst they are still better at it than anime at average.
Most you mentioned I've seen, or are based on older shows. I guess I should have specified, I mean modern stuff, I know most of the old.

Mo Dao Zu Shi seems interesting tho.



almost all of the stuff they listed are modern anime tho. There's maybe 2 or 3 from before 2010, it doesn't get much more modern than that list of recommendations.

I mean entirely modern, not remakes or sequels based on older manga, sources.

Satyr_icon said:
DrakoWiz said:
If I have to suffer through another insert generic fantasy MMORPG inspired setting ala Goblin Slayer, Shield Hero, Isekai Smartphone, Re;Zero, TenSura, Konosuba, and so on, I'll go crazy!


Because you're obviously watching (and insisting on) the wrong kind of anime.

Hereby I declare the thread locked.

To name a few that Maneki-Mew didn't mention and have decent world-building and that aren't set in generic pseudo-medieval RPG worlds:

Kemono no Souja Erin
Mahoutsukai no Yome
Kekkai Sensen
Hakumei to Mikochi (good anime but the manga is better)
Tanoshii Muumin Ikka
Monogatari Series
Mushishi
Kino no Tabi
Haibane Renmei
Gankutsuou

I heard Natsume Yuujinchou is good, too. Also Yakusoku no Neverland.

Movies:
Wolf Children
Sayonara no Asa ni Yakusoku no Hana wo Kazarou
Almost everything by Ghibli

Some manga:
Blame! (probably the most impressive I've seen in the medium, as the world is built solely by the art and mostly silent narrative)
Dorohedoro
Tongari Boushi no Atelier
Ran to Haiiro no Sekai
Somali to Mori no Kamisama
Chimoguri Ringo to Kingyobachi Otoko (not a fan, but got some crazy ideas that might be your cup of tea, and fantastic art)

Also, thank you a lot for the recs! x)
Modified by removed-user, Feb 27, 6:51 AM
 
Feb 27, 6:44 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 51
I'm surprised nobody has mentionned Ginga eiyuu densetsu yet, it has the best worldbuilding I've seen in any anime.
 
Feb 27, 6:45 AM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 0
Deduleadaa said:
I'm surprised nobody has mentionned Ginga eiyuu densetsu yet, it has the best worldbuilding I've seen in any anime.

DrakoWiz said:
BourBon-7so said:

Made in abyss is an obvious answer , also i don't think Konosuba needs any worldbuilding , you watch that shit to see the main cast being idiots .

Ok, added it. Heard it was a Kaiba wannabe tho.

Almost_Satan said:
The Aria franchise has god tier world building

Added!

@thevagus
Gintama is too long, tried like 30 episodes, did not find it funny. May check Mob Psycho.
Also I could have added Berserk, LoGH, FMAB, and Gundam but .... ehh, I already did here.

I already did myself bro. Read the comments. And agree! After that is FMAB imo.
 
Feb 27, 7:14 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 893
@DrakoWiz

i see i misread your first statement nevermind^^

you are a tough one with your scores

you might enjoy Code Geass or Gundam IBO, standalone
or Jormungand
 
Feb 27, 7:20 AM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 0
Daphi said:
@DrakoWiz

i see i misread your first statement nevermind^^

you are a tough one with your scores

you might enjoy Code Geass or Gundam IBO, standalone
or Jormungand

No prob, and thank you for the recommendations!
 
Feb 27, 7:29 AM

Online
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1191
eh, boku no hero tries to integrate a realistic world into its shonen setting with more focus on mass media and public reputation as well as bureaucratic hurdles even though the mc's get to be the exceptions to the rules anyways. it's still a step-up over what came before
"I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says.
I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby".
"She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other."
 
Feb 27, 7:33 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 14115
Check out Made in Abyss if you want to see some innovative world building.
Kokoro did nothing wrong.

 
Feb 27, 7:35 AM
Offline
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 31253
DrakoWiz said:
Pullman said:

Fairy Tail still has better worldbuilding than Bleach to be honest and Horizon in the middle of nowhere was a terribly executed show from the start, and what I've seen of it was pretty much the opposite of good worldbuilding. It was rushed, confusing and trying to do way too much in way too little time. I feel like OP is mistaking setting/concept with actual worldbuilding based on him just complaining about 'generic settings' multiple times. But setting =/= worldbuilding. You can have good or bad or no worldbuilding in any kind of setting.

I'll disagree. Even if FT has a larger world, they do not do anything with it. In Bleach the world is smaller, but they do explore the other regions at least. Also for Horizon, I mostly meant the Light Novel, the anime adaptation wa confusing yes, but you see that was because the light novel is a sequel to a previous one, Owari no Chronicle, and hence you need to at least be familiar with what goes on. Hmm, that is why I gave examples like isekais which are set in their own fictional world, and not some random urban setting anime, now did I?


Your thread title says only 'anime', you made this thread in 'anime' discussion. Don't blame me for not being able to read your mind, when you list anime I'm going to talk about those and not about their source material which I haven't even read. There's other places you can go to talk about LNs and whatnot, I'm just commenting on the anime you listed. I this isn't your personal fault, but it always annoys me when people make a discussion thread about anime, talk about nothing but anime in their post, and then suddenly try to debunk my points or counterarguments with some LN/manga/source material that neither of us was talking about before. Stick to the one medium please, otherwise it just becomes confusing and arguments become inconsistent.

The Bleach worldbuilding is just atrocious imo, every new arc basically makes up a new part of the world that hasn't been mentioned before, often not even hinted at. Nothing is planned or foreshadowed, everything is only relevant for the one arc that introduced it out of nowhere and usually drifts into obscurity after it's over. It's just terrible at implementing the worldbuilding, I honestly think it's one of the worst cases of worldbuilding I've ever seen in anything. It doesn't feel like we are learning more about a world that existed from the start, but rather like the author himself just keeps making up random new stuff out of nowhere as he goes. That's the opposite of good worldbuilding to me, which should feel natural and like it was there from the start.

FT has similar issues, but definitely does a much better job of making the different aspects of it count even outside the arc that first introduces them. Makes it feel much more like an actual world rather than a just bunch of isolated worldbuilding aspects with no significange or even presence outside of their one arc. I'm still not very high on Fairy Tail, but I definitely think it beats Bleach, overall and specifically in terms of worldbuilding.

Also idk why you only listed fantasy/isekai examples, I still can't read your mind. It just seemed that they have more in common in regards to the setting and not the worldbuilding so I assumed you're mixing up the two to some degree. This gets backed up by you actually only mentioning the setting being generic in your first sentence as your reason for disliking them. Seems like you're annoyed by that part of it more than anything.

That also explains the generic isekai/fantasy hatred. Plenty of fantasy/isekai have pretty good worldbuilding, like Overlord and Log Horizon, even Death March was decent in that regard, but they do all have fairly similar fantasy settings, albeit they can still differ a lot in tone and focus. A lot of them also don't need worldbuilding, like Grimgar or Konosuba or Goblin Slayer, because they're trying to do different things.

I already gave examples of the good and bad.

Yeah and they don't seem very consisistent or agreeable to me which is what I wrote most of my reply about, not sure how 'I already gave examples that you disagreed with' is any kind of argument here, but okay.

And it's hard to not recognize that all your bad examples are isekai/fantasy titles while the positive examples are much more varied. Not hard to reach the conclusion that you just dislike that type of show, especially since you just grouped a bunch of shows that are trying to do completely things together and criticized them as if they were all the same. It just isn't very effective the way you framed your criticism, it just reeks of bias.

I think it's very reductive to just judge every show solely by its worldbuilding. There is a lot you can do in a story without focusing on just that. Even the positive examples you mentioned don't really focus a lot on worldbuilding, like Spice and Wolf, so I can't really relate to your obsession. The appeal of that show surely lies elsewhere, in the character dynamics, dialogue and all that great stuff.

Excuse me, but when I watch a show set in it own fictional world, I expect smt there. Really, Spice and Wolf can't? Have you read the Light Novel? It has a lot of worldbuilding going on. It's own cities, cultures, history.


Again, feel free to discuss light novels in the manga section, but I'm always talking about anime in anime discussion and assume other people are doing the same because otherwise they'd just be off topic. No comment on the LN, but the main appeal and focus of the anime was definitely a lot of other things and not the worldbuilding. There was a bit of it, but it was more incidental than anything.

So yeah as always it's never a good idea to just care about one thing and then expect it from every single show without even trying to understand what they are trying to do and whether you need worldbuilding for that. You don't need it in comedies or introspective character dramas or romance etc... I'd much rather shows like that focus on being good at what they are trying to do instead of cramming in random world building elements just to please someone like OP who seems to have no other interest.

We ain't talking about every anime here, just about anime set in their own worlds where it is expected to at least have some worldbuilding going on? You are just misunderstanding and coming to your baseless conclusions putting words into my mouth I did not say. Do you disagree that settings set in a medieval world do not need worldbuilding then? If they are historical I can agree, but when they are fictional they do infact need to have smt there.


I'm saying the setting has nothing to do with whether a show needs worldbuilding because the setting has nothing to do with what a show is trying to do conceptually, so being set in a medieval world is irrelevant. You can have a romance or a comedy or an adventure show in that setting, among others. Only one of those needs worldbuilding.

Based on that example I think it's you who aren't understanding my point. If a show sets out to introspectively explore the psyche of certain characters and their relationships and interactions and whatnot, who cares about worldbuilding? If a show sets out to be hilarious and make you laugh and be silly and random, who cares about worldbuilding?

An anime needs to be good at what it is trying to do and if worldbuilding isn't one of those things, it's moot to criticize it for that. I get that you want to see it in more anime, but that's just what you'd like, it completely ignores what the shows you listed are actually trying to do and whether they succeed or fail at that.

A show like KonoSuba doesn't need worldbuilding, it's purely comedical so it should focus and does focus on having funny characters and situations and dialogues and visuals. Who cares about worldbuilding if it makes you laugh a ton every episode like it set out to? Apparently you, for some reason, but it makes no sense to me. Criticing it for something that is so irrelevant to the nature of that show just seems to miss the point for me. It's complaining for the sake of complaining. It's like watching K-On and ranting that there weren't enough sword fights in it.

Criticism should always be about what a show was trying to do and whether it was good or bad at that, and why. Otherwise you're not criticizing the show, you're just ranting about what you would like it to be like if it was a completely different kind of show.

There's still plenty of shows who do focus on worldbuilding and do a good job at it. Stuff like Juuni Kokuki or El Hazard have pretty great and unique fantasy/isekai settings if you ask me. Then there is random stuff like Magi (modern battle shounen with good worldbuilding), Altair (classic swords & empires story with a lot of focus on worldbuilding) or even less typical examples like Banana Fish, JoJo Part 4 and Golden Kamuy which do a good or even great job at expanding the world they're set in.

Like now you get to the actual point of my post, wow. And I agree here, these have what I want. I still do not understand why you felt the need to demean me and make an ass of your self, but oh well I guess.


So the point of your post was that there are actually plenty of anime with good worldbuilding and that it's pretty inaccurate to say 'anime usually has poor worldbuilding'? Because that was my point in the paragraph you quoted. To prove wrong your thesis of bad worldbuilding being the norm. In my experience most anime that focus on worldbuilding, do a pretty good job at it.

Also insecure much? If you can't take any criticism of your 'arguments' and opinions without getting all pouty and feeling 'demeaned' and calling me an ass, then idk what you are doing on a forum. If I see someone say stuff that I don't agree with, I'm gonna argue my point. You could do the same or at least just accept the recs for what they are - recommendations - but instead you're just whining about the fact that I dared to argue with your assessment of the examples you listed. What kind of attitude is that to have on a discussion forum?

The whole point is to discuss and argue things, and I'm not gonna pretend I agree with your examples or point just because I'm afraid I might hurt your feelings if I disagree. I'm pretty sure I was being polite and neutral up until now in my disagreements with you, no insults or anything, just making my points like a nerd that cares about arguments and examples. If that's 'making an ass' out of myself, then idk what you are making of yourself right now. But it's definitely something worse than a donkey. Not sure what else to say except for I'm sorry you feel that way? I'm not sorry for anything I said, cause it was all harmless and on topic.

You can't judge worldbuilding after 1 or 2 episodes anyway, it's something that happens over time. It's a process, hence it is worldbuild-ing, and not just 'worldbuild' or whatever. So watching an episode doesn't give you any information about how good the worldbuilding will be. I'd say it's more efficient to just ask for recs based on worldbuilding if it's that important to you.

Then a few episodes. Do not take it 100% literal, jeez. I can get a basic understanding of the concept of the show and if I seem to enjoy it I will stick around, even if I do not, I'll give it another few episodes if it has some intriguing ideas before I give up.


That just supports my initial thesis that you are talking more about setting and concept than worldbuilding tho, without realizig it. In the opening post you complain about generic settings, now you talk about understanding the concept of the show after a few eps. Both are understandable statements, but they aren't really related to worldbuilding, which was my point from the start and why I found your whole post to be so inconsistent.

Anything you drop after only a few eps won't be dropped because of worldbuilding since that is something that happens slowly and gradually over time, but because of how much you like or dislike the setting or concept or characters or whatever.
Modified by Pullman, Feb 27, 7:40 AM

Listen, everybody wants change, don't nobody want to change though
don't nobody want to pray, till they got something to pray for
now everybody's gonna die, but don't everybody live though
 
Feb 27, 7:48 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 828
Also, don't get discouraged because of the surge of the heavy-handed RPG elements in anime/manga. Although the west has the upper hand in literature, I think Japan is still better when it comes to fantasy in comics and animation. It's just a matter of scavenging for the good stuff.
 
Feb 27, 8:04 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3679
I hate these RPG inspired worlds in Light Novels too. It's like the creators are saying "you've played a video game before, right? Then we don't have to explain the lore and rules of this world anymore!"
 
Feb 27, 8:05 AM
Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 373
2ego said:
Naruto
One Piece
Hunter x Hunter (2011)
Boku no Hero Academia
91 Days
Holy heck I just noticed that the only ones with a good worldbuilding are the popular known ones...except 91 Days. Anyway, these have a great worldbuilding.
my hero academia and world building? Sorry but its laughable
 
Feb 27, 8:15 AM
Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 10488
Striker-3649 said:
2ego said:
Naruto
One Piece
Hunter x Hunter (2011)
Boku no Hero Academia
91 Days
Holy heck I just noticed that the only ones with a good worldbuilding are the popular known ones...except 91 Days. Anyway, these have a great worldbuilding.
my hero academia and world building? Sorry but its laughable


What are you talking about? The Hero society, etc everything is nice, has a nice worldbuilding. Popular doesn't equal bad, & of course the other way around.
 
Feb 27, 8:20 AM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 453
Overlord has pretty good world building... I’m too lazy to elaborate on this or mention any other shows with great worldbuilding... Sorry:(
 
Feb 27, 8:23 AM

Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1513
The fact you say One Piece has bad world building tells me that you didn't even get past the East Blue saga. The reason One Piece is so long is because it takes its time to build the different settings and the Characters that will intervene in the arcs. If it had bad world building it would've ended by now.
Signature removed. Making a new one that won't get fucking removed.
 
Feb 27, 8:24 AM
Offline
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 10
Re:Zero has some of the best world building ever. Much better than Made in Abyss imo. It's just more subtle. So far let me name some pretty big things that have been explained that ya may have missed.
Flugels Tree
Kararagi Empire
Literally the entire history of Lugunica
The Witches
The way the merchants operate in this world.
The dragon
The Alstrea family
The white whale
The witch cult
Beatrice Library

All of these and probably dozens more contribute to the world of ReZero. Each one is very significant and has a long history that contributes to the story. Sure the anime just mentioned some of these without more inspection. But it's only on its first season. I mean Rezero has it's own alphabet for God's sake. And the spells have their own rules and structure for saying them. It's not just saying some generic cool sounding term like in sds.
 
Feb 27, 8:25 AM
Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 373
2ego said:
Striker-3649 said:
my hero academia and world building? Sorry but its laughable


What are you talking about? The Hero society, etc everything is nice, has a nice worldbuilding. Popular doesn't equal bad, & of course the other way around.
sure the "district or region" is fleshed out very well but we are talking about "world building" here, we literally havent heard anything at all from rest of the world even in manga, all of top 100000000 (lol) heroes as well as every villain ever exists in just one city (?) thats not what you call a good "world building".
 
Feb 27, 8:26 AM
Offline
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2028
I don't know, i don't think i've watched enough anime to form an opinion on that, but for some good world building in my opinion, check out these two anime:

Shoukoku no Altair

Tegamibachi + the sequel Tegamibachi Reverse
 
Feb 27, 8:28 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 533
There's kinda a difference between poor worldbuilding and generic world building. Poor worldbuilding is a world where the various elements clash with each other and you wonder how it can exist as a cohesive world. Generic simply means it's been seen before. Given most of your examples seem to be examples of generic worldbuilding as opposed to bad worldbuilding, (since most of them do feel like a cohesive world with thought about how the various elements work in the world to a decent extent) you seem to be angrier at generic worldbuilding.

So you want to see something different than the standard fantasy or slightly modified urban setting. Fair enough. There was Made in Abyss, Girls' Last Tour, Little Witch Academia, Princess Principal, and to a lesser extent Grimoire of Zero from 2017, 2018 had Violet Evergarden, B: The Beginning, and to a lesser extent Megalo Box and Darling in the Franxx (until it screwed that up later), this season we have Promised Neverland which is working to establish it's own new world, and later on this year there's Dr. Stone which has it's own unique world (or so I hear).

There are modern anime with unique worldbuilding, in fact I'd argue there's about as many as existed back then. We just have the benefit of hindsight and can lump them all into one cohesive whole as opposed to how spread out they were even back then.
Modified by MaskOfIce, Feb 27, 8:33 AM
You have shit taste, and then I have taste so shit it makes your taste look good
 
Feb 27, 8:31 AM
Lala Deviluke❤️

Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 4142
Your title doesn't even match what you say in your OP. World building =/= setting or concepts in a particular show.

Also, being generic is not bad.
 
Feb 27, 8:38 AM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 0
[quote=Pullman message=57032142]
DrakoWiz said:
Pullman said:


I'll disagree. Even if FT has a larger world, they do not do anything with it. In Bleach the world is smaller, but they do explore the other regions at least. Also for Horizon, I mostly meant the Light Novel, the anime adaptation wa confusing yes, but you see that was because the light novel is a sequel to a previous one, Owari no Chronicle, and hence you need to at least be familiar with what goes on. Hmm, that is why I gave examples like isekais which are set in their own fictional world, and not some random urban setting anime, now did I?


Your thread title says only 'anime', you made this thread in 'anime' discussion. Don't blame me for not being able to read your mind, when you list anime I'm going to talk about those and not about their source material which I haven't even read. There's other palces you can go to talk about LNs and whatnot, I'm just commenting on the anime you listed.

Ok, I'm guilty of this, you are right. But still doesn't change that it has it, only that the anime interpretation is bad. If you do not want to admit it then, all the power to ya I guess.

The Bleach worldbuilding is just atrocious, every new arc basically makes up a new part of the world that hasn't been mentioned before, often not even hinted at. Nothing is planned or foreshadowed, everything is only relevant for the one arc that introduced it out of nowhere. It's just terrible at implementing the worldbuilding, I honestly think it's one of the worst cases of worldbuilding I've ever seen in anything. It doesn't feel like we are learning more about a world that existed from the start, but rather like the author himself just keeps making up random new stuff out of nowhere as he goes. That's the opposite of good worldbuilding to me.

Yeah, maybe in the anime it doesn't. The Bleach manga is much better. And they foreshadow Hueco Mundo and the second form of Hollows right after the fight of Ichigo with Grand Fisher (ep10), but only in the manga, or special jump OVA which aired in 2004. The anime butchered the fight and added filler. In fact the anime consists of 50% filler. The manga doesn't suffer from this. Read it and see for yourself.

FT has similar issues, but definitely does a much better job of making the different aspects of it count even outside the arc that first introduces them. Makes it feel much more like an actual world rather than a just bunch of isolated worldbuilding aspects with no significange or even presence outside of their one arc.

FT doesn't suffer from fillers, it is just crap, in both versions, sorry. If you want the actually good one, watch/read Mashima's first manga work, Rave Master, of which FT seems to be a bland copy.


If you can't read my mind why put words in my mouth that weren't there just to make me look stupid? Haha. If you thought some more, of which you seem quite good at, you could have come to the same realizations, and ideas I had in mind, they ain't that hard to understand, anyway. I gave two examples of genres which tend to be set in their own fictional worlds, light novels (not limited to isekai), and battle shounens (not limited only to shounen series). So what was so hard exactly?


Yeah and they don't seem very consisistent or agreeable to me which is what I wrote most of my reply about, not sure how 'I already gave examples that you disagreed with' is any kind of argument here, but okay.

And it's hard to not recognize that all your bad examples are isekai/fantasy titles while the positive examples are much more varied. Not hard to reach the conclusion that you just dislike that type of show, especially since you just grouped a bunch of shows that are trying to do completely things together and criticized them as if they were all the same. It just isn't very effective the way you framed your criticism, it just reeks of bias.

We are all biased to an extend so? I already explained this in the upper paragraph.


Excuse me, but when I watch a show set in it own fictional world, I expect smt there. Really, Spice and Wolf can't? Have you read the Light Novel? It has a lot of worldbuilding going on. It's own cities, cultures, history.


Again, feel free to discuss light novels in the manga section, but I'm always talking about anime in anime discussion and assume other people are doing the same because otherwise they'd just be off topic. No comment on the LN, but the main appeal and focus of the anime was definitely a lot of other things and not the worldbuilding. There was a bit of it, but it was more incidental than anything.

There is more of it later on in the Light Novel. How am I supposed to discuss it then when you give examples from the anime adaptations, which are simply misinformed?


We ain't talking about every anime here, just about anime set in their own worlds where it is expected to at least have some worldbuilding going on? You are just misunderstanding and coming to your baseless conclusions putting words into my mouth I did not say. Do you disagree that settings set in a medieval world do not need worldbuilding then? If they are historical I can agree, but when they are fictional they do infact need to have smt there.


I'm saying the setting has nothing to do with whether a show needs worldbuilding because the setting has nothing to do with what a show is trying to do conceptually, so being set in a medieval world is irrelevant. You can have a romance or a comedy or an adventure show in that setting, among others. Only one of those needs worldbuilding.

So having a romance set in a medieval world which has no history, culture, name of towns even, is ok for you? Ok.

Based on that example I think it's you who aren't understanding my point. If a show sets out to introspectively explore the psyche of certain characters and their relationships and interactions and whatnot, who cares about worldbuilding? If a show sets out to be hilarious and make you laugh and be silly and random, who cares about worldbuilding?

Hmmm, Slayers is a comedy set in its own fantasy world, and still has worldbuilding in it. So it isn't that hard now is it? Some basic kind of it. I do not demand LoTR lore here. I just want some kind of explanation that makes sense and is integrated well into the story. You can still have your comedy and psyche explorations, but if the show relies only on its cast and doesn't bother with it's world, when it is set in the fantasy genre, then idk if I can say the show is good or not. It can be a slice of life then, ya know!

An anime needs to be good at what it is trying to do and if worldbuilding isn't one of those things, it's moot to criticize it for that. I get that you want to see it in more anime, but that's just what you'd like, it completely ignores what the shows you listed are actually trying to do and whether they succeed or fail at that.

Ok, then tell me what exactly are they trying to do? They are part of the fantay/isekai genre bro. Zero no Tsukaima in fact is also a comedy/harem, and that shit has it's own world, it isn't anything original, but still exists. You are looking at the isekai genre as you are looking at a urban setting battle shounen, or what? For those it is excused to not have worldbuilding cause they are set into OUR (or versions of it) world. Isekais aren't alternative realities, they have to be their own world. Isekai = Transported to another world. So when you say that we do not actually need any of that building, you are saying that it doesn't matter if the world make any sense or not, and with that I disagree. When you are in the Isekai/Fantasy genre you especially need this because it is the sole base things of the entire foundation.

A show like KonoSuba doesn't need worldbuilding, it's purely comedical so it should focus and does focus on having funny characters and situations and dialogues and visuals. Who cares about worldbuilding if it makes you laugh a ton every episode like it set out to? Apparently you, for some reason, but it makes no sense to me. Criticing it for something that is so irrelevant to the nature of that show just seems to miss the point for me. It's complaining for the sake of complaining. It's like watching K-On and ranting that there weren't enough sword fights in it.

Criticism should always be about what a show was trying to do and whether it was good or bad at that, and why. Otherwise you're not criticizing the show, you're just ranting about what you would like it to be like if it was a completely different kind of show.

Only that it does! And has it to a lesser extend. Slayers does the same shit Konosuba did, and that never stopped it from having WB in? And again, bad example. Konosuba has worldbuilding, just pretty generic isekai rpg inspired one.


Like now you get to the actual point of my post, wow. And I agree here, these have what I want. I still do not understand why you felt the need to demean me and make an ass of your self, but oh well I guess.


So the point of your post was that there are actually plenty of anime with good worldbuilding and that it's pretty inaccurate to say 'anime usually has poor worldbuilding'? Because that was my point in the paragraph you quoted. To prove wrong your thesis of bad worldbuilding being the norm. In my experience most anime that focus on worldbuilding, do a pretty good job at it.

Well if they do the job for ya, all the power to ya. I guess, haha.

Also insecure much? If you can't take any criticism of your 'arguments' and opinions without getting all pouty and feeling 'demeaned' and calling me an ass, then idk what you are doing on a forum. If I see someone say stuff that I don't agree with, I'm gonna argue my point. You could do the same or at least just accept the recs for what they are - recommendations - but instead you're just whining about the fact that I dared to argue with your assessment of the examples you listed. What kind of attitude is that to have on a discussion forum?

I just pointed out the obvious. No need to get triggered over it, wow. I just pointed out the obvious, I do not like your attitude towards me, and have the right to strike back, smt you aren't accustomed to it seems. ;)

The whole point is to discuss and argue things, and I'm not gonna pretend I agree with your examples or point just because I'm afraid I might hurt your feelings if I disagree. I'm pretty sure I was being polite and neutral up until now in my disagreements with you, no insults or anything, just making my points like a nerd that cares about arguments and examples. If that's 'making an ass' out of myself, then idk what you are making of yourself right now. But it's definitely something worse than a donkey. Not sure what else to say except for I'm sorry you feel that way? I'm not sorry for anything I said, cause it was all harmless and on topic.

Hmm, wow. I'm not offended or anything? That would be foolish. I also took your points and understand them to the extend I can, and took the time to answer myself, see? I guess your attitude rubbed me the wrong way, or I misunderstood some of your mocking. I'm sorry, if that was your way of polite communication and I misinterpreted it.


Then a few episodes. Do not take it 100% literal, jeez. I can get a basic understanding of the concept of the show and if I seem to enjoy it I will stick around, even if I do not, I'll give it another few episodes if it has some intriguing ideas before I give up.


That just supports my initial thesis that you are talking more about setting and concept than worldbuilding tho, without realizig it. In the opening post you complain about generic settings, now you talk about understanding the concept of the show after a few eps. Both are understandable statements, but they aren't really related to worldbuilding, which was my point from the start and why I found your whole post to be so inconsistent.

Anything you drop after only a few eps won't be dropped because of worldbuilding since that is something that happens slowly and gradually over time, but because of how much you like or dislike the setting or concept or characters or whatever.

Yes, world-building happens overtime. Agree. What I want is good world-building then that can actually make sense in the logic of its own world. An unique setting which isn't just a bunch of RPG cliches and mash of races that have no explanation of how they could co-exist together. Take for an example, the goblins from Goblin Slayer. Apparently they are the weakest monsters and nobody bothers with them aside from newbies. Yet, we see that they can pillage villages and castles easily. Overpower warrior elfs and so on. Yet the quest handing organization also sends endless hoards of newbie women to fight them, which only get brutally raped and used to birth more goblins and reverse. In short the setting makes no sense from the get go, so what kind of world building will there be to begin with? Not a good one that's for sure.

MaskOfIce said:
There's kinda a difference between poor worldbuilding and generic world building. Poor worldbuilding is a world where the various elements clash with each other and you wonder how it can exist as a cohesive world. Generic simply means it's been seen before. Given most of your examples seem to be examples of generic worldbuilding as opposed to bad worldbuilding, (since most of them do feel like a cohesive world with thought about how the various elements work in the world to a decent extent) you seem to be angrier at generic worldbuilding.

So you want to see something different than the standard fantasy or slightly modified urban setting. Fair enough. There was Made in Abyss, Girls' Last Tour, Little Witch Academia, Princess Principal, and to a lesser extent Grimoire of Zero from 2017, 2018 had Violet Evergarden, B: The Beginning, and to a lesser extent Megalo Box and Darling in the Franxx (until it screwed that up later), this season we have Promised Neverland which is working to establish it's own new world, and later on this year there's Dr. Stone which has it's own unique world (or so I hear).

There are modern anime with unique worldbuilding, in fact I'd argue there's about as many as existed back then. We just have the benefit of hindsight and can lump them all into one cohesive whole as opposed to how spread out they were even back then.

Oh, I see. Then I guess I mean poor worldbuilding. The generic ones can be done well too, and I do not mind them.

Afloo said:
The fact you say One Piece has bad world building tells me that you didn't even get past the East Blue saga. The reason One Piece is so long is because it takes its time to build the different settings and the Characters that will intervene in the arcs. If it had bad world building it would've ended by now.

Man, again with this. I gave the big three as good examples!

KatsutoSaki said:
Your title doesn't even match what you say in your OP. World building =/= setting or concepts in a particular show.

Also, being generic is not bad.

I guess I mean poor then. A bad concept can't have good worldbuilding tho, or can it? Give examples.

AshitaNoJonas said:
I hate these RPG inspired worlds in Light Novels too. It's like the creators are saying "you've played a video game before, right? Then we don't have to explain the lore and rules of this world anymore!"

Yes EXACTLY THIS! I feel you are one of the few who actually got what I mean here, wow. Kudos for that!

Satyr_icon said:
Also, don't get discouraged because of the surge of the heavy-handed RPG elements in anime/manga. Although the west has the upper hand in literature, I think Japan is still better when it comes to fantasy in comics and animation. It's just a matter of scavenging for the good stuff.

Yes, I can agree to this.
Modified by removed-user, Feb 27, 8:47 AM
 
Feb 27, 8:45 AM
Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 10488
Striker-3649 said:
2ego said:


What are you talking about? The Hero society, etc everything is nice, has a nice worldbuilding. Popular doesn't equal bad, & of course the other way around.
sure the "district or region" is fleshed out very well but we are talking about "world building" here, we literally havent heard anything at all from rest of the world even in manga, all of top 100000000 (lol) heroes as well as every villain ever exists in just one city (?) thats not what you call a good "world building".


Yes totally fucking find an anime that shows EVERY part of the world, that's not worldbuilding, the sole city in mha is easily taken as THE WORLD, since if that's how it is in the city - it is in the world, this implies to EVERY this type of anime.
 
Feb 27, 8:47 AM

Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1592
First off, here: Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building[/quote]

Second, to paraphrase Brandon Sanderson, there are generally three main aspects to a story: character, plot, and setting/world. If you have to sacrifice one to have more time to make the other two better, sacrificing/dumbing down on the setting is usually the safer choice. You can still have a successful story.

Case in point, Harry Potter. Surprised? Good world-building does not always mean interesting setting. It just means that the world is consistent with its own rules and everything can make sense in light of everything else. Harry Potter isn't. As one fan puts it:

(https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/aldjqh/what_kind_of_teenage_bullshit_probably_happened/efedpqc/)

Rowling didn't do much worldbuilding before writing the first book, and even as the series went on the world grew organically based on the needs of the characters in the book, without too much thought on how it would affect the wider wizarding world.

So something like a timeturner made some sense for Hermione in the context of the book, but was enormously problematic for the wider world and were quietly forgotten about until they were "all" destroyed in a later book.

Whatever the magical system that enables the Ministry see what all underages do when not at Hogwarts makes sense for Harry's relationship with the Dursleys, that system mysteriously disappears when it comes to the Ministry being able to detect the mass use of very illegal spells by underground Death Eater organizations because that would make for a shorter series.

Rowling started out writing a relatively lighthearted coming of age story about kids at a magic British boarding school, and had to change it over time into the epic fantasy series it ended up becoming

The question now is, are you, @DrakoWiz, actually asking for good world-building or just interesting settings? Because you're probably not going to like my answer if it's just the former.

My answer would be Log Horizon, an MMORPG isekai. Why? Because it creatively uses MMORPG mechanics.

MMORPG mechanics allow for a pretty strong backbone in constructing a hard magic system. In fact, it’s one of the easiest ways of establishing a hard magic system, really.

Hard magic systems, as opposed to soft magic systems, have clearly defined rules so that the reader can understand and predict them, in accordance with Brandon Sanderson’s first of three laws of magic: “An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is directly proportional to how well the reader understands said magic.”

This allows the reader/viewer to participate in the storytelling because the reader/viewer now has a clearer idea of what the characters can do and if he/she is quick enough, he/she can predict what the characters could and would do based on their capabilities. Quick, what does an MMORPG offers you? It offers relatively clearer defined rules that you could understand if you play RPGs or reading the basic straight-forward rules of the game genre.

This also puts the onus of solving problems not on the magic itself but on the character and how he/she utilizes said magic spell. The series, for example, has a character use a barrier spell as impromptu stairs and another character use a bind/root spell as a high damage whip. The spell is Thorn Bind Hostage. It wraps the target in five thorny vines and every vine an ally of the caster cuts deal 1000 HP worth of damage. The spell is a support spell for a squishy support character who's weak in direct combat. But now that they're not in a game anymore, what if someone uses that vine as a whip? Well, now you have a 1000 HP per hit vine, turning said support character into a fearsome damage dealer.

It also clears Sanderson's Second Law of Magic: "The limitations of a magic system are more interesting than its capabilities. What the magic can't do is more interesting than what it can."

One, their magic is limited by mana and by what the magic were specifically designed to do when they were in a game and not in an alternate reality that matches the game. They can't just pull out a new magic. They have to repurpose their preset magic spells; as I pointed above.

The other limitation is the fact that in a typical MMORPG, players are divided into several unique classes, each with its own strengths, weaknesses, and gameplay. This allows players to find and excel in the playstyle they favor. It also means that they can't do everything. Each one can do a couple of things really well. They have to work together because they can't accomplish a lot of the things the game/world expects them to accomplish by going at it alone. The very nature of RPG classes restricts and limits them.

Then we have Sanderson's Third Law of Magic: "Expand on what you have already, before you add something new. A brilliant magic system for a book is less often one with a thousand different powers and abilities -- and is more often a magic system with relatively few powers that the author has considered in depth."

Here's more exploration of the Third Law (and anyone who has completed Season 1 of Log Horizon can attest to how the series does the things mentioned here):

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Sanderson%27s_Laws_of_Magic

Extrapolation

It is important to consider the effects that a magic will have on a world. If for example your magic can create food out of thin air, what will that cause, what will happen? How will it affect trade, politics, warfare, education and social norms? Asking these questions and working out what effects your magic system will add depth to your world.

Interconnection

Another important point is to interconnected. Try to make the powers of a character seem like a coherent whole rather than separate abilities. In Mistborn, for example, magics were designed to be what thieves would want and then the powers named accordingly. Tying your powers together thematically is an important part of worldbuilding and expands the world, rather than adding to it.

Streamlining

Streamlining is also important in any magic system. Combining pre-existing magics and powers is often better than adding new ones. A different culture reacting to a magic entirely differently than what has been shown so far, is often better than a culture with its own unrelated magic system. For example: a simple heat-generating magic may be used by different cultures in very different ways. A warlike culture might use it for assault or for forging weapons, a peaceful one for heating and preparing food, for merchants for making products, nomads for powering transportation and so on.

Remember, however, not to streamline too far as that will make the single culture or character seem too packed and might decrease their plausibility.
You're free to exercise your freedom of speech. But we're not obliged to listen.
Nor are we obliged to give you a platform.
My gaze is the measure of all things:
Latest Review: The RisingRise of the Shield Hero
Latest Blog: Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building
 
Feb 27, 8:50 AM

Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1333
MauledDivine said:
Re:Zero has some of the best world building ever. Much better than Made in Abyss imo. It's just more subtle. So far let me name some pretty big things that have been explained that ya may have missed.
Flugels Tree
Kararagi Empire
Literally the entire history of Lugunica
The Witches
The way the merchants operate in this world.
The dragon
The Alstrea family
The white whale
The witch cult
Beatrice Library

All of these and probably dozens more contribute to the world of ReZero. Each one is very significant and has a long history that contributes to the story. Sure the anime just mentioned some of these without more inspection. But it's only on its first season. I mean Rezero has it's own alphabet for God's sake. And the spells have their own rules and structure for saying them. It's not just saying some generic cool sounding term like in sds.


True, but all of those come later in the novels. The first season didn't delve into that and nor do we know the full story behind them. The season's main target was to setup one of its main characters (Subaru), and then hint at setting up the other (Emilia) at the very end.

In short, not saying there wasn't any but if you dig through the subtleties in the first season alone, more questions were raised than answers. This has mostly to do with the author being advised to shift the world building to later volumes by his editor. So OP's statement of 'lack' of worldbuilding is true up to this point.
'The version of me that lives within you must be amazing. She can understand everything, even if you don't explain it to her'
 
Top
Pages (3) [1] 2 3 »