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why a lot of anime fans claim they do not care about animation or visual quality when the same fans hate old anime and 3DCG anime?

Poll: do you care about animation or visual quality in anime?


#1
Feb 22, 1:33 PM
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title says it all, and do not forget to vote in the poll

lets hear all opinions about this especially that those that claim they do not care about animation/visual quality while not watching old anime and even 3DCG anime
 
#2
Feb 22, 1:38 PM
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For me it does matter

I might try something even if the visual presentation is bad, and I might stick with it if I find it enjoyable. But if the presentation is god awful, the chance of me dropping it are much higher.
And if the presentation is good, the chance I give it a try are much higher.

Works the same for manga. If it has good art style, I'll usually give it one or two chapters, if it doesn't, other factor will have to play in like recommendations.
 
#3
Feb 22, 1:38 PM

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Art =/ Animation. Old anime have even better animation but I don't care but I care about artstyle and don't like the old ones. CG is fine to me
 
#4
Feb 22, 1:40 PM
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mhkr said:
Art =/ Animation.


animation is a sequence of art/drawings
so art is already part of animation or if you want to be more abstract then animation is art
 
#5
Feb 22, 1:40 PM

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How do you know they're the "same" fans? Couldn't it be there's a number of people saying they don't care and another group that do care?
 
#6
Feb 22, 1:41 PM
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Bad visuals =/= Uncanny visuals
It's hard to take a show seriously when the characters move like puppets.
Also, most CGI made shows aren't the best written.

And CGI does not have an excuse to be so bad.
Literally everything except anime has good CGI.
And Land of The Lustrous exists.

About "Old Anime", they don't look bad to me.
Modified by TodAboT, Feb 22, 8:04 PM
 
#7
Feb 22, 1:41 PM

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Since this thread looks very similar to the thread we had about two weeks ago, it would be better to put the same answer that i did there.
skana said:
The quality of graphics affects one's enjoyment for a show a lot.
Modified by ItsYaBoiSkana, Feb 22, 1:44 PM
 
#8
Feb 22, 1:42 PM

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how can one person not care about animation in a battle?

 
#9
Feb 22, 1:43 PM

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deg said:
mhkr said:
Art =/ Animation.


animation is a sequence of art/drawings
so art is already part of animation or if you want to be more abstract then animation is art


But it's still analyzed as two different things. For example, I love the old Berserk anime's art, but most of the time there's very little movement, just tricks to create the illusion of animation. On the other side, you can have something like Naruto vs Pain, with really fluid animation but characters looking like garbage.

--------------------------------

Tiago_KT said:
how can one person not care about animation in a battle?



If you're like me and don't care too much about fight scenes anymore, you can very well not care about how they're animated.
 
Feb 22, 1:47 PM

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It's just a cop out. They don't care when it's a show they like, and they do care when it's a show they dislike. Whatever one justifies their shit taste.

As for people with critical thinking skills and actually consistent opinions, they realize the visuals should always have an some effect on the overall quality.
 
Feb 22, 1:50 PM
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NickCapricorn said:
deg said:


animation is a sequence of art/drawings
so art is already part of animation or if you want to be more abstract then animation is art


But it's still analyzed as two different things. For example, I love the old Berserk anime's art, but most of the time there's very little movement, just tricks to create the illusion of animation. On the other side, you can have something like Naruto vs Pain, with really fluid animation but characters looking like garbage.


if you care more about art or static drawings then you are not fan of animation or sakuga, a lot of sakuga scenes/episodes/shows have simple character designs that is simple to draw and easy for the animators to make better animation quality with, one recent example of this is Mob Psycho 100, the sakuga episodes of Naruto and Naruto Shippuuden also have simple easy to draw character designs
 
Feb 22, 1:52 PM

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i only care bout animation if its a fight :S
 
Feb 22, 1:54 PM
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CG is fine as long as it's not Overlord CG
 
Feb 22, 2:03 PM

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deg said:
NickCapricorn said:


But it's still analyzed as two different things. For example, I love the old Berserk anime's art, but most of the time there's very little movement, just tricks to create the illusion of animation. On the other side, you can have something like Naruto vs Pain, with really fluid animation but characters looking like garbage.


if you care more about art or static drawings then you are not fan of animation or sakuga, a lot of sakuga scenes/episodes/shows have simple character designs that is simple to draw and easy for the animators to make better animation quality with, one recent example of this is Mob Psycho 100, the sakuga episodes of Naruto and Naruto Shippuuden also have simple easy to draw character designs


My comment wasn't about my personal tastes, I just wanted to give you examples on how "art" and "animation" are considered as two different subjects, even though, like you said, animation is just a sequence of drawings.

If you want my personal opinion, you're right, I'd rather have better drawings than better animation. I do understand why drawings are simplified for extremely animated scenes (just like I understand why anime characters are simplified compared to their original manga or LN looks), but I'd rather have things more "static" in order to keep a greater amount of detail in the drawings, since also, chances are, those better animated scenes I'll end up considering as just time-wasters.
 
Feb 22, 2:04 PM

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deg said:
title says it all, and do not forget to vote in the poll

lets hear all opinions about this especially that those that claim they do not care about animation/visual quality while not watching old anime and even 3DCG anime

I think I might be one of those people ur refering to, so lemme explain:
I do not care about too much about the visual quality as long as it's decent/accetable, like, if I had to pick between a show with amazing visual but average story and a show with average visual and amazing story I'd go for the latter without a second thought.
The thing is: old anime/bad CGI anime's visual is not decent/accetable to me.

That's it, I think when someone says "I do not care about X's quality", you shouldn't take that literally, everyone cares about it to a certain degree.
Modified by vhagar8, Feb 22, 2:21 PM
 
Feb 22, 2:05 PM
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I have never heard those two were the same group: Most of the time I hear people saying something along the lines of "I only watched things from 2010 onwards and not anything from before the 00s".

Well, to answer your question: it's not that I don't care about animation, it's that I have a hard time noticing those things, although I can recognize bad cgi from shows such as Harukana Receive. Apart from HR, there has been one show which I noticed had been badly animated and that one is Aishiteruze Baby and, as a few users have pointed out, it did affect my enjoyment.
 
Feb 22, 2:08 PM

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animation is important. Bad visuals will leave a nasty taste in our mouth. Bad animation will kill any immersion since our eyes will nearly immediately pick up on it

If animation is a key focus, then it has to be good. Shows that implement CGI can't have bad CGI otherwise it will result in people complaining about said bad CGI. But then you have shows like Kill la Kill that implement it softly but so incredibly well that you just end up enjoying yourself.
Some shows use it plenty during a fight scene like some of the Fate/ shows (ex. Heaven's Feel-- any scene with lancer lmao).
Other shows that utilize it to its fullest, like Land of the Lustrous, are bizarre. CGI has an overwhelming negative appearance, generalized by many years of bad CGI, but when a show happens to have good CGI it amazes you. Land of the Lustrous easily has the cleanest stuff.

Does a show need good quality animation and designs? No.
Does it help a show if it has good quality animation and designs? Yes.
Good quality animation enhances a viewer's experience
 
Feb 22, 2:09 PM

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@NickCapricorn
The animation is obvious important on anime,mainly in fight scenes but not only. If an anime have bad animation i will probabily not see it.
 
Feb 22, 2:12 PM

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Because they are not real anime fans. I lose respect for people that say this stuff. Or wont watch certain anime because its "old"

 
Feb 22, 2:27 PM

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Old animation is ok and there is nothing wrong with it.
CG is so-so. We have both bad (e.g. new Berserk or those ugly battle scenes from Baki 2018) and good (like Houseki no Kuni) examples
 
Feb 22, 5:46 PM

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mhkr said:
Art =/ Animation. Old anime have even better animation but I don't care but I care about artstyle and don't like the old ones. CG is fine to me


This animation from old anime is worse than all other modern animation I seen.



deg said:
title says it all, and do not forget to vote in the poll

lets hear all opinions about this especially that those that claim they do not care about animation/visual quality while not watching old anime and even 3DCG anime


Judging from the current result of the poll, it shows that they do care. The one who said don't care only represent the minority.
Modified by Gorochu, Feb 22, 10:54 PM
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Feb 22, 7:56 PM

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deg said:
why a lot of anime fans claim they do not care about animation or visual quality when the same fans hate old anime and 3DCG anime?
First, the anime fandom is stupid big, so it's probably not the same people saying these things.

Second, beyond minimally competent animation to make stuff not look like Mars of Destruction, a lot of preferences are really just matters of taste, often built from what one is used to. For example, one may be used to seeing animation where stretch frames are used, and CG animations lack stretch frames and thus may feel odd to them.

Third, a lot of people who don't watch much in the way of older anime have this preference because they prefer newer art styles, particularly for drawing human faces. Smoother animation or more detailed animation or more isn't going to change the art style much at all in this respect.



Me, personally?

I seem to have a preference for art styles from the 00s. This literally is how I ended up adding a bunch of works to my PTW that I didn't even know were all from that era and specifically by Gonzo. I often choose to PTW stuff based on art style.

I don't hate older anime though. I'll watch it if I think it's interesting enough.

I also don't hate CG. Even when it's conspicuous, it's just another animation technique, to me. It can be done poorly, but I don't hate it right out of the gate.

I also seem to prefer more stable animation styles. Like, Trigger's reputation for all sorts of visually crazy animation doesn't do much for me. Note: animation style is different from art style. I don't really mind limited-animation shots. In general I'm pretty accepting of whatever animation is there, as long as it's at least minimally competent.

But art style is another thing though. If it's gonna be spindly limbs, or excessively moë, or whatever, that isn't my cup of tea.
Modified by GlennMagusHarvey, Feb 22, 8:03 PM
 
Feb 22, 8:07 PM

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Oh, relevant thread: "Is anyone else generally okay with CGI?".

Started by yours truly.

I still prefer the CGI version of the Frame Arms Girl OP. Gourai seriously looks more adorable that way.
 
Feb 22, 8:58 PM

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Gorochu said:

This animation is worse than all other modern animation I seen.



Lol, OK I should correct my statement. Some old anime have better animations compare to modern anime. Nowadays most anime are just slideshows with sound like this...
 
Feb 22, 9:00 PM

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Personally, I prefer old anime. New anime look so... plastic, I guess? You can tell they just used the bucket tool to fill in the colors, it's so lifeless.
But to be clear, that does not stop me from watching newer stuff per se.
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Feb 22, 9:31 PM

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In terms of animatiin I'm pretty neutrall because I usually can't spot the differences in animation quality anyway except when it's done hilariously bad or exceptionally good. I can see the difference in quality from Akira and the latest Berserk just fine but don't ask me to do the same with Madoka Magica and Akatsuki no Yona. With artstyle I generally don't care if the story looks interesting. I did get bothered with the unnaturally long limbs in xxxHolic though.
 
Feb 22, 9:35 PM

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I don't think those anime fans are the same; as in, I don't think an anime fan who claims they don't care about animation/visuals is the same fan who says they hate old anime and 3DCG anime.

holysauron said:
In terms of animatiin I'm pretty neutrall because I usually can't spot the differences in animation quality anyway except when it's done hilariously bad or exceptionally good. I can see the difference in quality from Akira and the latest Berserk just fine but don't ask me to do the same with Madoka Magica and Akatsuki no Yona. With artstyle I generally don't care if the story looks interesting. I did get bothered with the unnaturally long limbs in xxxHolic though.


I think I'm similar, but I much prefer anime with a distinct visual style. I love anime that have their own "flair" to it. Half the reason why I watch a majority of anime is just for the overall feel of it.
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Feb 22, 9:57 PM

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I don't really care about animation much cause if I did I wouldn't like ajin but if animation is good I might like the show even if it doesn't have that good story
 
Feb 22, 9:59 PM

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holysauron said:
In terms of animatiin I'm pretty neutrall because I usually can't spot the differences in animation quality anyway except when it's done hilariously bad or exceptionally good. I can see the difference in quality from Akira and the latest Berserk just fine but don't ask me to do the same with Madoka Magica and Akatsuki no Yona. With artstyle I generally don't care if the story looks interesting. I did get bothered with the unnaturally long limbs in xxxHolic though.
Yeah, I'm basically this way.

The spaghetti-people art style is conspicuous in a way that animation shortcuts are not.
 
Feb 22, 10:15 PM
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Actually, i do care about anime artstyle quite a lot, as i refuse to watch some anime purely on the fact i don't like their art, also animation is usually not a big problem for me, unless the fights are as crappy and half assed as those in Saiunkoku Monogatari or the anime in general takes a nose dive into atrocious teritory like the last half of Kareshi Kanojo no Jijou, otherwise, i'm not as picky with animation as i am with artstyle.

Although even then i make some exceptions, mostly for really old anime(such as the world masterpiece theater/old shoujou or similar anime, since i grew up with them and at least i think i can tolerate old shoujo style better than old shounen style where everyone is more likely to be ugly/hideous lol)

Also, 3DCG anime makes me sad, because i don't want for all anime to become fully 3DCG like with Western animation, i prefer 2D animation sooo much more since it's a lot more expressive and natural, but i won't completly dismiss it if it sounds interesting, like, i added Beastars to my PTW even if i heard it was Full 3D, because it seems really interesting.

 
Feb 22, 10:35 PM

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deg said:
title says it all, and do not forget to vote in the poll

lets hear all opinions about this especially that those that claim they do not care about animation/visual quality while not watching old anime and even 3DCG anime

Your problem is, you're lumping animation and visual quality together. They're very different things that work for different people.
For example, I have no idea what people are talking about when they discuss animation quality, I only care about how the static picture looks. And I strongly prefer 2D looks of mainstream anime to 3DCG. By the way, most old anime look pretty good to me (and some are actually good if you watch them, but that's a different story).

That said, I still watched Kemono Friends in its ugly CG and eventually enjoyed it. But not for its looks, just for its soul.
Even though shows about animal-themed girls are supposed to be visually enjoyable :(
 
Feb 22, 10:39 PM
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flannan said:
deg said:
title says it all, and do not forget to vote in the poll

lets hear all opinions about this especially that those that claim they do not care about animation/visual quality while not watching old anime and even 3DCG anime

Your problem is, you're lumping animation and visual quality together. They're very different things that work for different people.
For example, I have no idea what people are talking about when they discuss animation quality, I only care about how the static picture looks. And I strongly prefer 2D looks of mainstream anime to 3DCG. By the way, most old anime look pretty good to me (and some are actually good if you watch them, but that's a different story).

That said, I still watched Kemono Friends in its ugly CG and eventually enjoyed it. But not for its looks, just for its soul.
Even though shows about animal-themed girls are supposed to be visually enjoyable :(


a large part of critic about animation is visual quality already though, animation is not just about the movement but also the sequences of drawings or art that created that motion
 
Feb 22, 10:59 PM

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I don't mind the animation style at all. I still rate everything based on story and character / world development.
I suppose I prefer old anime to 3DCG though. It just makes me feel like I need to be holding a controller because the boss fight is about to start and I don't even know the controls.
 
Feb 22, 11:13 PM

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What? Animation/ visual q is one of the most important things for me in any anime (the same for most ppl I'd say).

As for CGI yes most of the CGI stuff I've seen is bad and I say that bcoz animation and visual qlty matters to me.

What i don't get is how OP drew the conclusion that they're the same ppl?
 
Feb 22, 11:50 PM

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This goes without sayin. I really care about the animation/sakuga and it's technicalities. But, I love 2D/traditional animation more than 3D animation. Because I really appreciate more on how much effort and time spent on creating key animation and stuff.

As for the 3D animation, there so much less to be desired especially on anime, as of now. But I know 3D will eventually get it right someday and will become the norm on japanese animation.



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Feb 23, 1:23 AM

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I care about animation and visual quality. That's also a reason to watch old anime.
 
Feb 25, 12:49 PM
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"dont care" does not mean bad animation is okay. For them mediocre is enough.
by the way i care but not very much. i give more points for good-looking animation(houseki no kuni) but i dont give bad score if animation a little bad(piano no mori)
 
Feb 25, 12:58 PM

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3DCG is exceptionally difficult to do right without at least a Toei, Bamco, or Sunrise budget.


 
Feb 25, 1:17 PM

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Neutral

I care only about actual bad, glaringly obvious, animation mistakes, or shows with transparent production problems and shortcuts.
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Feb 25, 1:57 PM
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Let's set aside the baity thread title and the fact that people who care about animation quality should not pay attention to the production year, but the actual animation quality.

Personally I both care and don't care about the visuals. I don't care in the sense that I don't require great animation or designs to enjoy the shit out of an anime that has great writing, an interesting story and characters, hilarious comedy or any other attributes that I enjoy a lot. Bad or mediocre visuals alone will never make me not like a show, they're only annoying if anything else is bad or boring already and I can't even focus on the visuals to get some enjoyment.

But I do care in the sense that it's always a plus to have good animation and a generally appealing art style. I'll never not notice and appreciate it when there's some great sakuga scenes, interesting visual direction or just a general high level of animation quality and consistency. I really love animation and art in general so I can even enjoy shorter stuff like Movies or shorts solely because of the animation. I always give props to anime with outstanding visuals and love watching sakuga compilations and so on. It's just that I also love storytelling and writing and I'm totally fine with a show just impressing me on one of those fronts, I don't require great animation to enjoy a good story and vice versa, but I will always appreciate it when a show is top-tier in both regards.

I think I just have an easy time focusing on whatever a show is best at and then not getting too hung up on other stuff as long as I get to enjoy at least that one thing a lot. It goes beyond visuals and writing too, it's just my general attitude to anime and other things: focus on the positive stuff, focus on what you enjoy about them and just kinda laugh away the rest if you can. That way I spend more time enjoying things and less time hating things than most anime fans I've met, which is nice. And there's so many aspects of anime that I love, from the visuals to the music to the story to the characters. It's not that common for something to be-subpar in every way, and most other shows I can enjoy to some degree.

I'm often surprised how strongly people dislike perfectly fine shows because they get hung up on one aspect about them that was sub-par or bad (be it animation or a particular character or one arc, one story development etc...), and which I might even agree on, but which just didn't impact my overall enjoyment nearly as much. But I guess some people are just super picky and need everything they watch to excel in every single way.

And to be honest I think even a lot of people who say they care and always want good animation, don't really care when they're already enjoying something, they just don't realize it. I can't count how many times I've seen people trash shows because of animation quality when they have favorites with very mediocre animation themselves. It's just easy to not notice or not care about mediocre or even below average animation when you're into a show, while disliking or being bored by a show will make you notice every little flaw in the visuals.

So yeah, I think most people have a sort of 'selective caring' going on, where they start caring the moment they 'notice', but when or if they do depends a lot on their level of immersion which is shaped by a lot of different factors aside from the actual visuals.

Most people don't have a trained eye, never studied animation in any way and just go purely on instinct when they make their value judgments about animation quality. That's to be expected, most people aren't experts. But it leads to a lot of contradictory and uninformed opinions which are more determined by how much they like a show as a whole, or simply going by hearsay, pre-existing biases or vague first impressions that often mix up art style, animation quality and designs into one jumbled mess.

When people intuitively dislike something for any reason, or even just 'not like' it because they aren't used to it, they often rationalize it with 'I didn't like it, so it must be bad' and if you extend that to something like animation quality, which isn't just opinion-based, it leads to a lot of questionable or straight-up wrong opinions and ignorant statements that just seem insane to anyone who knows even a little bit about animation.

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