| It was the sole reason I started watching anime. Because I loved Joey wheeler so much. It was so real that I hated Mai out of jealousy. It got worse to the point I didn't watch anime with girls in it cause I didn't want my crush to like another girl. Now I cooled down but still I prefer it if my anime crush doesn't have one. |
Manaban said: DaCraziGuy said: IF YOU CAN'T INTERACT WITH SOMEONE YOU CAN'T FALL IN LOVE, IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT. You can like or be interested on someone you could say, but if you are not part of the ecuation you never are going to develop anything real because you are not part of it. YOUR ARGUMENT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE YOU ARE CONFLATING BEING IN LOVE WITH BEING IN A RELATIONSHIP AND I HAVE SAID THIS ALREADY. WHY YOU'RE CAPS LOCKING ME, I HAVE NO CLUE, BUT I MAY AS WELL JOIN IN ON IT. DaCraziGuy said: Saying that "knowing someone" is a proxy of what interacting with someone is then you are making a huge mistake. Ok, fair enough. Now, how am I making a mistake, rather than just telling me that I am making a mistake? From my perspective, the only way that - "you can only know someone by interacting with them" would make sense is if you were looking at things in a vacuum of someone's entire existence in terms of how they responded to *you* - *you* being the individual in question, rather than in reference to you specifically. People's mannerisms, behaviors, personality, et cetera, aren't entirely centered around their interactions with a single individual, though, and to view things from such a lens is something I'd challenge as being reductive to the person whose personality is being discussed. People exist outside of their interactions with other singular individuals. The other way this could be interpreted is if you're neglecting the entire aspect of how fiction is consumed and the means it is done so by, but I tried going over that in the post you extremely blatantly just didn't read yet pretended that you did, and you acted like I didn't say anything and doubled down on the exact stances I was laying out counterarguments for, so what the fuck is the point of even pointing that out to you? Or it could be neither of those things, I could be missing something ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Fuck if I know what you mean, considering you just told me that I was making a mistake and then said nothing to substantiate it. DaCraziGuy said: So the reasons why someone might "love" a characters are still A, B or C. You don't need to answer anymore, because I have the same feeling as you. It's incredibly arrogant to just begin making accusations of mental deficiencies, ignore every single perspective brought to counter your own, and then double down and say that your conclusion is the only correct one. Like, this is not how you converse with people. This is not how discourse happens, this is not how anything worthwhile happens. It's like you're just plugging your ears and going "la-la-la-la-la can't hear you" to everybody who isn't aligned with you on this subject, yet continue to respond to them and assert yourself correct as regardless. This is how a child behaves, for fuck's sake. Relationship =/= date, I was talking just about interactions with someone. You have a relationship with a friend too. But I guess that was too hard to get so I need to make it more clear. Again, you can't understand someone if YOU don't interact with them. Simple as that, there is no posibility of feedback. That means that you never are going to "test" what kind of relationship you can have with this person. Also, if you are in love with someone that you never talked irl it's because of the 3 reasons a said before. It's not just about anime, irl these things happen too. It's just common sense and if you don't get it, then you guess it !! you have issues !! Loving someone from afar and thinking that you know someone without even talking to them is fucked up !! Besides anime just show the things that they want, is a selective way to show what is going on through their heads so it's never a "real" observation. That is why I agreed with you that this is pointless, it's something so simple that it shouldn't be even explained and despite that you can't grasp the idea (or you just refuse to accept it). |
 |
| It's one thing having a waifu husbando whatever or wanting to fuck an anime character but falling in love with one? Get a life. |
 |
DaCraziGuy said: Relationship =/= date, I was talking just about interactions with someone. You have a relationship with a friend too. But I guess that was too hard to get so I need to make it more clear. Considering what this entire thread is about and the entire context this discussion is taking place in? You would. It'd also need to be relevant, though, which that distinction really isn't, except in the case where I pointed out to you that your issues with the methods people get to know and fall in love with characters are more or less, out of outright necessity, going to be the same methods that people get to know characters in a way entirely removed from any form of intimacy. Which you have continuously refused to acknowledge past just doubling down on your stance and addressing no counterpoints being thrown at you, and considering that you're bringing up the existence of any non-intimate relationship as if you're the one introducing it to the discussion, no, I don't think that's what you had in mind here whatsoever. From the outset you were pointing out the need for interpersonal interactions being the basis for knowing someone - which, in the context of discussing fictional characters, the kind of interaction you push for is literally impossible under any circumstances, so you'd have to deny literally every opinion and interpretation on a fictional character ever for your argument to make any sense. I already outlined the concept of knowing a fictional character's personality based on how the series they're in builds them up and showcases these elements about them and whatnot. I also pointed out that people don't operate in a sole vacuum where their interactions with a single individual doesn't determine every aspect of them as an individual because people are complicated enough to respond to different things in different ways, in different contexts with different meanings, and even basic fictional characters display that degree of complexity. All of these retorts and counterarguments, yet you haven't even tried to address a single one despite continuing to quote me and tell me "I'm right and if you can't grasp that then blah." DaCraziGuy said: Again, you can't understand someone if YOU don't interact with them. Simple as that, there is no posibility of feedback. That means that you never are going to "test" what kind of relationship you can have with this person. Also, if you are in love with someone that you never talked irl it's because of the 3 reasons a said before. It's not just about anime, irl these things happen too. It's just common sense and if you don't get it, then you guess it !! you have issues !! Loving someone from afar and thinking that you know someone without even talking to them is fucked up !! Besides anime just show the things that they want, is a selective way to show what is going on through their heads so it's never a "real" observation. "You see? Everything conclusion that you draw on a character by witnessing their interactions with their surrounding environment and the narrative they're in? You very obviously can't draw any conclusions about them based on seeing what they say, do, act like, or even think, because you can't personally interact with them." Yeah, sure buddy. Again, you're going to have to negate literally every opinion and every character interpretation in existence for this to make any sense. Because everything you're taking issue with is - again - you trying to deny the fundamental necessity of how people view and get to understand the characterization and personalities of a character in a fictional work. Also, do I need to repeat the basic fucking notion that somebody's entire being isn't determined by how they interact with one fucking person? Actually, why do I ask that, because even if I do, you won't even bother fucking attempting any counters to anybody's reasoning while still sticking around and arsing everybody about how correct you are. Either way, I did so in the last post, I did so in this post once already as well. That is an extremely self-centered and reductive way to look at somebody's entire person, regardless of fiction or reality. That is why I agreed with you that this is pointless, it's something so simple that it shouldn't be even explained and despite that you can't grasp the idea (or you just refuse to accept it). Again, if you want to prove something to people, you have to at least fucking attempt to explain yourself. Going "YOU ARE ALL INSANE I AM RIGHT YOU ARE ALL WRONG" when challenged on it is not how you communicate with people like a mentally capable person. |
ManabanFeb 6, 2019 3:31 PM
 |
| No not really. Funny thing is now that I'm a weeb I don't have anime "crush" but when I was a kid and not really into anime I have crushes from all kinds of shows like Nami from One Piece and Power Rangers Pink and Kim from Kimpossible. |
NANACHO FOR PRESIDENT |
Manaban said: necro_dancer said: i get what u are saying man (i read the whole conversation between u two) but u should probably ignore that idiot his response to me was just him calling me edgy lmao. at first i thought he simply doesn't understand the concept but now i think he just doesn't want to understand (so he can keep feeling superior about himself for being into real girls-pretty sure he thinks losing virginity is the biggest achievement possible in life) Y'see, we can't call them an idiot. They're behaving like one, certainly, but that's because they're not reading the responses they're getting and are making really poor responses as a result. If they put forth more of an effort, we might be able to have an actual discussion here, but meh. But if we call them that, then we're giving them the tools to build a narrative that "Nobody wants accept it lol so they get mad at me." We're invalidating the point they're trying to make, but doing so through aggressive ad hom rather than challenging them on it. At this point, it opens everything said in response to them up to just whittling it down to the people who called them an idiot and building the whole context of what's going on around that. Do I know if this is how they will handle it? No, I don't. But it sure as hell happens often enough that I'd rather everybody pull back on just going down this route in cases like this >_> This happens all of the time whenever I get pissed off at people doing this exact thing when I try to make arguments defending ecchi or something. It's always blegh, but it has to be played along with to some extent. Such is life. yeah you are right but i just hate it when people refuse to look at things from another angle i don't what his problem with "religion example" is tbh, this type of behavior is generally associated with these type of people (simply because they have this strong belief about the world and its really hard to get them to put that belief away for 5 minute and look at the topic in a different way or question the basics) |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Not really, I'm more into pairing tbh, never wanted any character for myself. |
  Grant me one hour on love's most sacred shores To clasp the bosom that my soul adores, Lie heart to heart and merge my soul with yours |
Manaban said: DaCraziGuy said: Relationship =/= date, I was talking just about interactions with someone. You have a relationship with a friend too. But I guess that was too hard to get so I need to make it more clear. Considering what this entire thread is about and the entire context this discussion is taking place in? You would. It'd also need to be relevant, though, which that distinction really isn't, except in the case where I pointed out to you that your issues with the methods people get to know and fall in love with characters are more or less, out of outright necessity, going to be the same methods that people get to know characters in a way entirely removed from any form of intimacy. Which you have continuously refused to acknowledge past just doubling down on your stance and addressing no counterpoints being thrown at you, and considering that you're bringing up the existence of any non-intimate relationship as if you're the one introducing it to the discussion, no, I don't think that's what you had in mind here whatsoever. From the outset you were pointing out the need for interpersonal interactions being the basis for knowing someone - which, in the context of discussing fictional characters, the kind of interaction you push for is literally impossible under any circumstances, so you'd have to deny literally every opinion and interpretation on a fictional character ever for your argument to make any sense. I already outlined the concept of knowing a fictional character's personality based on how the series they're in builds them up and showcases these elements about them and whatnot. I also pointed out that people don't operate in a sole vacuum where their interactions with a single individual doesn't determine every aspect of them as an individual because people are complicated enough to respond to different things in different ways, in different contexts with different meanings, and even basic fictional characters display that degree of complexity. All of these retorts and counterarguments, yet you haven't even tried to address a single one despite continuing to quote me and tell me "I'm right and if you can't grasp that then blah." DaCraziGuy said: Again, you can't understand someone if YOU don't interact with them. Simple as that, there is no posibility of feedback. That means that you never are going to "test" what kind of relationship you can have with this person. Also, if you are in love with someone that you never talked irl it's because of the 3 reasons a said before. It's not just about anime, irl these things happen too. It's just common sense and if you don't get it, then you guess it !! you have issues !! Loving someone from afar and thinking that you know someone without even talking to them is fucked up !! Besides anime just show the things that they want, is a selective way to show what is going on through their heads so it's never a "real" observation. "You see? Everything conclusion that you draw on a character by witnessing their interactions with their surrounding environment and the narrative they're in? You very obviously can't draw any conclusions about them based on seeing what they say, do, act like, or even think, because you can't personally interact with them." Yeah, sure buddy. Again, you're going to have to negate literally every opinion and every character interpretation in existence for this to make any sense. Because everything you're taking issue with is - again - you trying to deny the fundamental necessity of how people view and get to understand the characterization and personalities of a character in a fictional work. Also, do I need to repeat the basic fucking notion that somebody's entire being isn't determined by how they interact with one fucking person? Actually, why do I ask that, because even if I do, you won't even bother fucking attempting any counters to anybody's reasoning while still sticking around and arsing everybody about how correct you are. Either way, I did so in the last post, I did so in this post once already as well. That is an extremely self-centered and reductive way to look at somebody's entire person, regardless of fiction or reality. That is why I agreed with you that this is pointless, it's something so simple that it shouldn't be even explained and despite that you can't grasp the idea (or you just refuse to accept it). Again, if you want to prove something to people, you have to at least fucking attempt to explain yourself. Going "YOU ARE ALL INSANE I AM RIGHT YOU ARE ALL WRONG" when challenged on it is not how you communicate with people like a mentally capable person. Yes, you are insane or you had so little human interaction that you don't know how to feel and interact with other people. Maybe you are lonely and anime is your only ray of hope or maybe you never loved anyone. Or maybe you are just trolling me. I really think you are insane if you think that "watching" someone is enough to know them, besides there is no way to truly know someone so that is why interacting with someone is so important, it's not enough to know them but enough to know how you feel around that person and a lot of more things that I feel pointless to say. Believe what you want. I'm out ! |
|
DaCraziGuy said: Yes, you are insane or you had so little human interaction that you don't know how to feel and interact with other people. Maybe you are lonely and anime is your only ray of hope or maybe you never loved anyone. Or maybe you are just trolling me. I'll chalk this one up as a "W" considering this is the route we're going down at this point, still without anything resembling an actual retort to a counterpoint I've brought up :^) I really think you are insane if you think that "watching" someone is enough to know them, besides there is no way to truly know someone so that is why interacting with someone is so important, it's not enough to know them but enough to know how you feel around that person and a lot of more things that I feel pointless to say. Once again If you think the only way you can come to know a fictional character isn't through watching them, but through personally interacting with them, you have to go forth and negate every opinion on every fictional character whatsoever on that basis. It's the only way you can stay in-line with this way of thinking and continue to assert that nobody who loves a fictional character truly knows anything about them. This is refusing to acknowledge common sense to hang-on to a pre-disposition to such an absurd degree that the irony in trying to portray the people around you as insane is overwhelming. DaCraziGuy said: Believe what you want. I'm out ! |
|
necro_dancer said: yeah you are right but i just hate it when people refuse to look at things from another angle Same fam necro_dancer said: i don't what his problem with "religion example" is tbh, this type of behavior is generally associated with these type of people (simply because they have this strong belief about the world and its really hard to get them to put that belief away for 5 minute and look at the topic in a different way or question the basics) Considering that I (technically) work in a church? Yeah. Nothing I love more than a good 'ol Roman Catholic Mass, lemme tell you >_> Mostly just old people paranoid about dying and the afterlife anyway, either that or a social thing. I feel like the ones who are raised religious and actually stick to it are somewhat few and far between here. Reputably less so with us Catholics, so I can only imagine how it is for the Lutherans xP But yeah, that's really what I feel he did here. It was kind of like, "I say this." "Mana write response." "No, I say this." "But that was what mana was responding to." "No, I say this and I'm right." "Can you offer me a fucking counterpoint if you're going to keep saying you're right?" "No, I'm right and everybody is insane and you can't grasp simple concept I haven't fucking explained at all." Jesus. I hate that this is the most normal type of discussion you can have on this board >_> |
ManabanFeb 6, 2019 3:56 PM
|
| I don't know, because I find myself constantly asking "What is love?" |
 |
| I'm not sure I understand how it's possible to actually fall in love with real, human emotions towards something animated. Sure, I have my waifus and best girls and all that, but it's all in good fun for me. I don't think about them consistently in the way I would towards a girl I'm actually dating. |
 "I am not sure that I exist, actually. I am all the writers that I have read, all the people that I have met, all the women that I have loved; all the cities I have visited." ― Jorge Luis Borges [url=]Goodreads[/url] | [url=]Letterboxd[/url] |
Jaces_Sanctum said: I don't know, because I find myself constantly asking "What is love?" Baby don't hurt me. Don't hurt me, no more. |
Grant me one hour on love's most sacred shores To clasp the bosom that my soul adores, Lie heart to heart and merge my soul with yours |
| I've only been in love with Gwen, cousin from big man Ben 10 himself. Yes, I loved the ben 10 series a child it was fucking awesome |
| poop |
Manaban said: necro_dancer said: yeah you are right but i just hate it when people refuse to look at things from another angle Same fam necro_dancer said: i don't what his problem with "religion example" is tbh, this type of behavior is generally associated with these type of people (simply because they have this strong belief about the world and its really hard to get them to put that belief away for 5 minute and look at the topic in a different way or question the basics) Considering that I (technically) work in a church? Yeah. Nothing I love more than a good 'ol Roman Catholic Mass, lemme tell you >_> Mostly just old people paranoid about dying and the afterlife anyway, either that or a social thing. I feel like the ones who are raised religious and actually stick to it are somewhat few and far between here. Reputably less so with us Catholics, so I can only imagine how it is for the Lutherans xP But yeah, that's really what I feel he did here. It was kind of like, "I say this." "Mana write response." "No, I say this." "But that was what mana was responding to." "No, I say this and I'm right." "Can you offer me a fucking counterpoint if you're going to keep saying you're right?" "No, I'm right and everybody is insane and you can't grasp simple concept I haven't fucking explained at all." Jesus. I hate that this is the most normal type of discussion you can have on this board >_> damn, your work must be quite annoying in my country (its an islamic country), its not really just old people. a lot of young people are also like this because of how they were raised (its like they are brainwashed basically) |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I do understand the liking of an ficitional character but loving one? That's weird. |
 |
| My answer is always a YES!!!!! LOOOOL |
  |
Sachyan said: Jaces_Sanctum said: I don't know, because I find myself constantly asking "What is love?" Baby don't hurt me. Don't hurt me, no more. What is love? Yeah I don't know why you're not fair I give you my love, but you don't care |
|
| Haruhi Fujioka, Meiko Akizuki, Oikura Sodachi and currently Kato Megumi. It hurts knowing they'll never be real. |
Manaban said: DaCraziGuy said: Relationship =/= date, I was talking just about interactions with someone. You have a relationship with a friend too. But I guess that was too hard to get so I need to make it more clear. Considering what this entire thread is about and the entire context this discussion is taking place in? You would. It'd also need to be relevant, though, which that distinction really isn't, except in the case where I pointed out to you that your issues with the methods people get to know and fall in love with characters are more or less, out of outright necessity, going to be the same methods that people get to know characters in a way entirely removed from any form of intimacy. Which you have continuously refused to acknowledge past just doubling down on your stance and addressing no counterpoints being thrown at you, and considering that you're bringing up the existence of any non-intimate relationship as if you're the one introducing it to the discussion, no, I don't think that's what you had in mind here whatsoever. From the outset you were pointing out the need for interpersonal interactions being the basis for knowing someone - which, in the context of discussing fictional characters, the kind of interaction you push for is literally impossible under any circumstances, so you'd have to deny literally every opinion and interpretation on a fictional character ever for your argument to make any sense. I already outlined the concept of knowing a fictional character's personality based on how the series they're in builds them up and showcases these elements about them and whatnot. I also pointed out that people don't operate in a sole vacuum where their interactions with a single individual doesn't determine every aspect of them as an individual because people are complicated enough to respond to different things in different ways, in different contexts with different meanings, and even basic fictional characters display that degree of complexity. All of these retorts and counterarguments, yet you haven't even tried to address a single one despite continuing to quote me and tell me "I'm right and if you can't grasp that then blah." DaCraziGuy said: Again, you can't understand someone if YOU don't interact with them. Simple as that, there is no posibility of feedback. That means that you never are going to "test" what kind of relationship you can have with this person. Also, if you are in love with someone that you never talked irl it's because of the 3 reasons a said before. It's not just about anime, irl these things happen too. It's just common sense and if you don't get it, then you guess it !! you have issues !! Loving someone from afar and thinking that you know someone without even talking to them is fucked up !! Besides anime just show the things that they want, is a selective way to show what is going on through their heads so it's never a "real" observation. "You see? Everything conclusion that you draw on a character by witnessing their interactions with their surrounding environment and the narrative they're in? You very obviously can't draw any conclusions about them based on seeing what they say, do, act like, or even think, because you can't personally interact with them." Yeah, sure buddy. Again, you're going to have to negate literally every opinion and every character interpretation in existence for this to make any sense. Because everything you're taking issue with is - again - you trying to deny the fundamental necessity of how people view and get to understand the characterization and personalities of a character in a fictional work. Also, do I need to repeat the basic fucking notion that somebody's entire being isn't determined by how they interact with one fucking person? Actually, why do I ask that, because even if I do, you won't even bother fucking attempting any counters to anybody's reasoning while still sticking around and arsing everybody about how correct you are. Either way, I did so in the last post, I did so in this post once already as well. That is an extremely self-centered and reductive way to look at somebody's entire person, regardless of fiction or reality. That is why I agreed with you that this is pointless, it's something so simple that it shouldn't be even explained and despite that you can't grasp the idea (or you just refuse to accept it). Again, if you want to prove something to people, you have to at least fucking attempt to explain yourself. Going "YOU ARE ALL INSANE I AM RIGHT YOU ARE ALL WRONG" when challenged on it is not how you communicate with people like a mentally capable person. When did I say that making observation about a character is pointless? Generally observation is what makes you interested in something or someone, second time you are making stuff up(before with the relationship deal when nowhere in the thread it was mentioned). Then is when the interaction comes in place and you can have a real idea of what you are dealing with (sometimes interaction happens without observing anything). There is no other point of view, it's like that. Also, stop mixing stuff, you are talking now about perceptions and point of views about unrelated things. This is clealy about love feelings towards a character, not how you see them in a general perspective. So of course I don't talk about thins that weren't in the discussion. If you want to go to the sides because you don't have any real argument so you are trying to create a situation were I can't answer you are wrong. It's not the same that you like or you are interested in a character than feeling a special connection with them and love them. That is the point were interaction comes in place and why a deep emotion should be impossible for any normal person. And last, if you think that watching someone is enough to know them then you are delusional. And this is truly the last thing I'm going to say, writting a lot of words without any real argument besides saying "you are wrong and you don't understand" and trying to mess up what I said to make you look smarter than you are is stupid. |
|
DaCraziGuy said: I mean if you can hear their most inner thoughts and their actions regardless if the character is alone or with a group and you see who they really are along with knowing their past you do practically know the characterAnd last, if you think that watching someone is enough to know them then you are delusional. And this is truly the last thing I'm going to say, writing a lot of words without any real argument besides saying "you are wrong and you don't understand" and trying to mess up what I said to make you look smarter than you are is stupid. Its not delusional at all in the slightest but sure sure my dude keep saying stupid shit and claiming you need to actually spend time with someone to fall in love when love is way more complicated than that  |
 |
Maneki-Mew said: DaCraziGuy said: People loving characters, aka imaginary people, has issues. Sorry, but if you really love (the thread said like if it were a real person) a character you should go to a psychologist. The problems start there, where people can't differentiate between real humans and fictional characters. I absolutely can confirm that it's a different thing. I think one of the major reasons why people kinda love fictional characters is that they think, they would know them inside out. It doesn't matter how deep and well-written you think they are, they are still fictional and even if they don't monogolize everything about their motivation, struggles etc. and leave you room for your own interpretations, many parts of these things are still emphasized from the plot or with symbols etc... That's when you think you "get" them and you appreciate their appearance too. xD For real people: Even if you know someone very well, you still can't look into their head and you can't be a part of their mindset and thoughts. Their mind always will be a black box to you, no matter what you try. You are left with the things other people say and how you interpret their gestures and the gap between what is said and shown, but you will never know for sure. You can have the feeling that you know someone perfectly, but they still surprise you, because you can't tell how you, yourself, would act in some situations and people even surprise themselves, because some corners of their own subconsciousness is kind of a black box too. And then, there is the interaction and contact, which is self-explanatory. You will wonder how many people, who aren't all alone and have friends or are in a relationship too and even married, are really enthusiastic about some characters, be it from anime, books, live action series or games. The other thing is the "real women / people are shit and only my waifu is good". I agree with you, but there is something I would like to add, it's fine to like a character, what is bad is loving it or thinking that it's more important that something real. That's when the fucked up part comes in place. I'm not saying that everyone that has a waifu do any of these things tho. |
|
Deknijff said: DaCraziGuy said: I mean if you can hear their most inner thoughts and their actions regardless if the character is alone or with a group and you see who they really are along with knowing their past you do practically know the characterAnd last, if you think that watching someone is enough to know them then you are delusional. And this is truly the last thing I'm going to say, writing a lot of words without any real argument besides saying "you are wrong and you don't understand" and trying to mess up what I said to make you look smarter than you are is stupid. Its not delusional at all in the slightest but sure sure my dude keep saying stupid shit and claiming you need to actually spend time with someone to fall in love when love is way more complicated than that So, if you REALLY want to know them you should listen his thoughs 100% of the screentime and all their actions, things that I never saw so far in any anime. So I think that it's impossible to know a character. Besides in all the shows that do that they always show their thoughs in some important moment, it's selective display of thoughs and not all his line of thoughs. Besides, the author can do wathever he wants with the characters sooo I really say it's pointess thinking that you know them. A lot of times an author kills it's own character with bad ideas or progression, or pull of some crazy twist. Pls, don't insult my intelligence with cheap empty words, piss off kid. |
|
DaCraziGuy said: Then its practically impossible to feel love for a real person also considering your standards on the subject of truly knowing someone or not knowing them So, if you REALLY want to know them you should listen to their thoughts 100% of the screen time and all their actions, things that I never saw so far in any anime. So I think that it's impossible to know a character.  DaCraziGuy said: But shows also show character thoughts in none important ways too about just casual things Besides in all the shows that do that they always show their thoughts in some important moment, it's selective display of thoughts and not all their line of thoughts. and even if you want to claim its only for important moments how does that matter? You still get to see inside their mind and gather a greater introspection of the character for who they are inside than had you not heard any thoughts at all DaCraziGuy said: But what about when that doesn't happen then my dude? Please don't claim that never happens btw because I will ignore that kind of response Besides, the author can do whatever he wants with the characters sooo I really say it's pointless thinking that you know them. A lot of times an author kills it's own character with bad ideas or progression, or pull of some crazy twist. DaCraziGuy said: Im not insulting your intelligence though. I simply said what you are saying is stupid and has no ground to stand on which is heavily indicated based off what little of value you've said in response to @Manaban Pls, don't insult my intelligence with cheap empty words, piss off kid. |
|
Deknijff said: DaCraziGuy said: Then its practically impossible to feel love for a real person also considering your standards on the subject of truly knowing someone or not knowing them So, if you REALLY want to know them you should listen to their thoughts 100% of the screen time and all their actions, things that I never saw so far in any anime. So I think that it's impossible to know a character. Just going to adress this, the rest is pointless. 1 - It is impossible to know someone 100% because not even I know about myself to a 100%, and everyone with at least an average IQ should feel like that. You never know how you would react in some important situations that you never experienced. If you truly know how you would react in any situation that you may encounter in life and what those situations are then congratulations, you must be using 100% of your mental capacity. 2 - I never said that you need to know someone to love it, you need to interact with them, that is why I made 10 comments but you nor the other dude got it. 3 - Stop making dumb assumptions pls. |
|
DaCraziGuy said: You bring up never knowing things that haven't happened but I fail to see how thats relevant tbh when we discussing how someone feels love for a fictional character which happens1 - It is impossible to know someone 100% because not even I know about myself to a 100%, and everyone with at least an average IQ should feel like that. You never know how you would react in some important situations that you never experienced. If you truly know how you would react in any situation that you may encounter in life and what those situations are then congratulations, you must be using 100% of your mental capacity. DaCraziGuy said: But thats based off a faulty premise that love can only occur in one way and only that way which is rather dumb 2 - I never said that you need to know someone to love it, you need to interact with them, that is why I made 10 comments but you nor the other dude got it. DaCraziGuy said: please stop saying dumb things which leads to dumb assumptions then my dude 3 - Stop making dumb assumptions pls.  |
|
That's going to be the underlying implication of claiming that you can't truly get to know a character without interacting with it directly. We base these observations based on how we see them interact with their surroundings and environment, yes. The whole crux of your argument has been that they need to interact with *you* for you to know *them*. I'm arguing that it's not necessarily the case with fiction due to how things are presented to the audience. DaCraziGuy said: Generally observation is what makes you interested in something or someone, second time you are making stuff up(before with the relationship deal when nowhere in the thread it was mentioned). It started here, in the first half half of this post. The difference between having a sort of interaction-response dynamic is that it is required for a relationship. Within the parameters of a fictional work, though, you can witness the character interact with their surroundings and their environment and see angles of their character they generally block off from their interactions with other characters, even. You can get to know a character through these means, through seeing and witnessing them and observing them within their series. That's where the conflation of "falling in love" and "being in a relationship" came from, at least in my eyes. You were demanding that, to know something or someone, you have to personally interact with them. I say that, within the realm of fiction, that is absolute nonsense because of the perspective of the audience member being very much a thing. To be in a relationship with them, of course you'd have to interact with them. But for a fictional character, getting to understand them and their portrayal is possible without having to directly have face to face communication with them. It's how we see them, it's what we base our observations on, it's what we see them do and how we see them act and respond to things. You tried following this up somewhat by making it about "you don't know how they'd respond to YOU" and no, I could probably fathom a guess but I don't know for certain. My counterpoint to this was that fictional characters and real people alike don't have their entire personality based around how they interact with a single individual - in this case the royal *you* - because even basic and simplistic types tend to have more facets than that, real and fictional both. Hence, it's unrealistic and reductive to base anybody's personality down to how they interact with only one person. You just responded with the same argument. Which has been a very consistent theme of this thread ever since your second response to me. DaCraziGuy said: Then is when the interaction comes in place and you can have a real idea of what you are dealing with (sometimes interaction happens without observing anything) If an interaction happens without you observing anything, it's either because you already knew that facet of the person or because you aren't really paying attention to them. There is always observation going on to some degree - this is mandated by things like body language, changes of tones, et cetera, the sort of signals people send to one another in interaction that don't necessarily spell everything out directly and want you to observe and figure out what's going on. Lack of observation is generally translated into "not paying attention," in common sense speak. As for a "real idea of what you are dealing with," in terms of interacting with someone, I feel like Maneki sums it up pretty well: Maneki-Mew said: For real people: Even if you know someone very well, you still can't look into their head and you can't be a part of their mindset and thoughts. Their mind always will be a black box to you, no matter what you try. You are left with the things other people say and how you interpret their gestures and the gap between what is said and shown, but you will never know for sure. You can have the feeling that you know someone perfectly, but they still surprise you, because you can't tell how you, yourself, would act in some situations and people even surprise themselves, because some corners of their own subconsciousness is kind of a black box too. And then, there is the interaction and contact, which is self-explanatory. You don't necessarily get that "real idea" that you speak with personal interaction, perhaps even less so than you could with fictional characters, albeit that's debatable and opening up a can of worms at that. At best, it's observation and interpretation. It's the basis for communicating and speaking, and languages and definitions of words are things meant to guide that as opposed to something concrete and unchangeable. DaCraziGuy said: There is no other point of view, it's like that. Your consistent black and white absolutism is still ridiculous, as an aside. DaCraziGuy said: Also, stop mixing stuff, you are talking now about perceptions and point of views about unrelated things.his is clealy about love feelings towards a character, not how you see them in a general perspective. So of course I don't talk about thins that weren't in the discussion. We're talking about how people get to understand and know characters within a fictional work. The types of perceptions we're discussing are completely and entirely relevant, and, further more, I'd go as far as to say that you introduced the "methods of coming to understand a character" discussion to this thread, even. Like, look: You brought it up with the comparison to a stalker, which I challenged is not only applicable when intimacy is in the response because it's generally the way we come to understand characters within a work, and the issue you were implying was more along the lines of "method" than just "response," which is how I interpreted it and thus responded accordingly in the second half of the post. Your response to as much was more or less a confirmation that, yes, that was indeed what you were saying, even though that was the grounds I was challenging that notion on had already been established. We ended up going in circles and circles after that, with me just reiterating my points and you more or less never challenging the counterpoints. Hence why it was extremely fucking annoying, it was about as useful as talking to a brick wall. DaCraziGuy said: If you want to go to the sides because you don't have any real argument so you are trying to create a situation were I can't answer you are wrong. That's not what I'm doing at all, and I think pretty much every post I've made in response to you in this thread substantiates that, but thanks for pointlessly hostile accusations about my intent. DaCraziGuy said: It's not the same that you like or you are interested in a character than feeling a special connection with them and love them. That is the point were interaction comes in place and why a deep emotion should be impossible for any normal person. Again, we're going in circles. Interaction is a means of getting to know someone in most cases. Beyond that, it could serve as something meant to further some sort of understanding or just for fun and amusement, but in general those come after getting to know someone a little bit. In fiction, the information we're provided through watching the character interact with their environment provides details about their character, personality, values, responses they offer to different scenarios, et cetera. It is not a be all end all to determine how much you know a person, how tangible they are. This is where the conflation of "being in love with a character" and "being in a relationship with a character" came into play - the need for interaction, because I argued that the elements that make someone fall in love with another are these sorts of things. Their personality, values, traits, how they respond to things - just who they are, more or less. You said to know these things you *have* to interact with them personally. I do not think that is the case, especially not in fiction, where the environment is often built around showcasing the characters and who they are without having to personally talk to them. DaCraziGuy said: And last, if you think that watching someone is enough to know them then you are delusional. And this is truly the last thing I'm going to say, writting a lot of words without any real argument besides saying "you are wrong and you don't understand" and trying to mess up what I said to make you look smarter than you are is stupid. I'm not saying you're wrong or don't understand. I don't think you do, mind you, but I'm not lobbying that accusation at you. I think you haven't fucking *read* what I (or anyone else going against your statements in this thread) has said, though, and I have no issue lobbying that accusation at you, though, because I've got a solid enough foundation to lobby it. Which, yes, in a discussion where you've consistently asserted yourself as correct and responded to the other people disagreeing with you without even as much as trying to counter something they've said, is something that I think is completely ridiculous. I'm saying that I'm fucking exhausted with how little you've paid attention to the perspective I've been trying to bring to the table, yet continued trying to push it for discussion and asserting you're correct. My...wait for it...*observation* is that you've made many statements in this thread, and when I offered a counterperspective, you basically just reiterated your statement and then asserted yourself as correct. That's the thing - I already brought up that I disagreed and tried to explain my stance on the matter. You've more or less told me that "No, you're wrong, I'm right" without any sort of retort. Well, no, I'm not going to let you walk away thinking that you're going unchallenged if that's how you want to be about it, I'm sorry. I've tried explaining my points and counter-arguments. If there was anywhere or anything that didn't make sense to you, well, point it out and I'll try to elaborate. I don't think my meaning was pointless whatsoever, though, and I think it's kind of ridiculous to go around and basically accusing me of using a bunch of rambling filler and reducing everything I've said into a single sentence that suits the perspective you want to take on it, which is how that all comes off. Especially when, well, no, I don't think you've read a fucking thing anybody has brought to you to go counter to your pre-established belief. As for twisting your words, well, I'd love to see where, because I've legitimately done my best to read what you say and offer a response to it, even when you were pissing me way the fuck off earlier. |
ManabanFeb 6, 2019 6:12 PM
|
| Never quite happened to me, or at least I don't recognize it as such. There are of course many characters I find endearing and adore but to grow feelings similar to how a crush in real life operates, I feel they are... too sporadic? I can grow to like and feel very attached to the character, I can feel aroused if it tries to go that way, but then the series ends and that's it. That's the extent. |
Deknijff said: DaCraziGuy said: You bring up never knowing things that haven't happened but I fail to see how thats relevant tbh when we discussing how someone feels love for a fictional character which happens1 - It is impossible to know someone 100% because not even I know about myself to a 100%, and everyone with at least an average IQ should feel like that. You never know how you would react in some important situations that you never experienced. If you truly know how you would react in any situation that you may encounter in life and what those situations are then congratulations, you must be using 100% of your mental capacity. DaCraziGuy said: But thats based off a faulty premise that love can only occur in one way and only that way which is rather dumb 2 - I never said that you need to know someone to love it, you need to interact with them, that is why I made 10 comments but you nor the other dude got it. DaCraziGuy said: please stop saying dumb things which leads to dumb assumptions then my dude 3 - Stop making dumb assumptions pls. First, if you think that you can love someone from afar you are insane. Second, if you make dumb assumptions so you can defend yourself intead of reading the words and building an argument on that then it's your fault. Third, I'm out. |
|
You have said that multiple times and brought very little to substantiate it when it was put under scrutiny relevant to the context it was being discussed in. I hate the be the bearer of bad news, but saying something over and over again doesn't mean people will automatically believe it. DaCraziGuy said: Second, if you make dumb assumptions so you can defend yourself intead of reading the words and building an argument on that then it's your fault. The absolute fucking irony here. For further irony, this is also the third time you've said that. DaCraziGuy said: And this is truly the last thing I'm going to say, writting a lot of words without any real argument besides saying "you are wrong and you don't understand" and trying to mess up what I said to make you look smarter than you are is stupid. The Boy Who Cries Wolf is a thing that exists and has a pretty relevant moral. |
ManabanFeb 6, 2019 6:29 PM
|
DaCraziGuy said: Is funny that the one with crazy in his very username is calling me insane when looking at all the worthless responses he has posted in this thread First, if you think that you can love someone from afar you are insane. DaCraziGuy said: I mean even if I did build a multilayered argument like @Manaban did you'd just keep repeating the same dumb thing anyway so of course I have to make certain assumptions towards what you're saying since its not built upon anything of value Second, if you make dumb assumptions so you can defend yourself instead of reading the words and building an argument on that then it's your fault.  Isn't a matter of defending myself here since I haven't done anything wrong too Im simply saying what needs to be said here  |
|
| Never happened, not even a crush. Sorry mate. |
 |
| If you actually think people can't have a "real" crush or truly fall in love with something/someone that doesn't exist, then you're nothing but delusional yourself. Since you can never fully understand or comprehend people except yourself. And if you think that makes them insane for a reason then you're just describing yourself. |
 |
| Those who answer with NO are not real anime fans |
| Yeah no. I don't think it would be possible for me. To me its just a step before like people who fall romantically in love with their cars or some other inanimate object. I just don't have the psyche to get attached to something I can't actually have a dual interaction with. |
Yeah, that last one was to the other dude not to you. I wasn't going to continue the conversation with you when I said: "This is truly...", but man, with this comment I'm dying hahahah. This is just pathetic, you can even get the context of a simple "I'm out" when I'm talking to another dude. It really makes it clear how despite my simplistic way of talking is so hard for your mind. You never got my point and you started to make up stuff because you couldn't argue. Besides, why the fuck you are following what I'm talking with someone else? That is fking creepy, you really got a boner with me, eh. Really man, you really made my day with this one hahahaha. |
|
DaCraziGuy said: You know whats truly pathetic though my dude Yeah, that last one was to the other dude not to you. I wasn't going to continue the conversation with you when I said: "This is truly...", but man, with this comment I'm dying hahahah. This is just pathetic Every reply you've posted in this thread  Love how you trying to justify your lack of proper points with Manaban to be simply him not understanding what you're saying too lol  |
|
DaCraziGuy said: Yeah, that last one was to the other dude not to you. I wasn't going to continue the conversation with you when I said: "This is truly...", but man, with this comment I'm dying hahahah. This is just pathetic, you can even get the context of a simple "I'm out" when I'm talking to another dude. It really makes it clear how despite my simplistic way of talking is so hard for your mind. You never got my point and you started to make up stuff because you couldn't argue. I'd still absolutely adore something mentioning and trying go against any of the counterpoints I brought up. I can't argue them, obviously, so it should be of no issue. DaCraziGuy said: Besides, why the fuck you are following what I'm talking with someone else? That is fking creepy, you really got a boner with me, eh. Well, I did get pinged multiple times in that conversation, but surely that has nothing to do with it. I'm glad to hear it, I live to brighten people's day and spread sunshine and rainbows and happiness everywhere I go :) |
|
| i used to genuinely have a crush (probably still do lol) on Kagamine Rin, but besides her i only ever find them attractive, not a crush |
| *Sade voice* This is no ordinary love. I love all my waifus and they love me, so it's whatever |
| Posts like these make me wonder why an asteroid hasnt destroyed us already. Also i tought "love" were chemical reactions tbh. |
| I never lie on the internet. What's the point of it... the chinese noodles ad is an anime and avatar isn't! triggered Check out my taste and my profile. |
| lmao this thread had me remember something I didn't want to remember. no. I do not "fall in love" with anime characters. Sure, I'll like characters because they're funny, cute, etc. but to go as far as to put them on the same dimension as reality... Yea, no. |
| I want to piss a certain someone off, but I'll resist the temptation. I've never had any crush, real or fictional. Even as a kid I had no innocent crushes rather I admired and looked up to them. I'm wondering if I'm aromantic or something lol. That's not to say I wouldn't want to date people who had similar characteristics as some of my favorite characters. The issue is though that they're too good for this world. |
 |
Maneki-Mew said: Manaban said: You don't necessarily get that "real idea" that you speak with personal interaction, perhaps even less so than you could with fictional characters, albeit that's debatable and opening up a can of worms at that. At best, it's observation and interpretation. It's the basis for communicating and speaking, and languages and definitions of words are things meant to guide that as opposed to something concrete and unchangeable. @DaCraziGuy TIL ... even a word for that haha. >Gnossienne - A moment of awareness that someone you’ve known for years still has a private and mysterious inner life, and somewhere in the hallways of their personality is a door locked from the inside.< But you think you know fictional characters perfectly, even if it's probably only the author who does. Also, you witness their life or a big part of it. If you don't marry your kindergarden-friend, you will meet your partner somewhere in the middle of your life and you can speak about memories and experiences from your former life, but you didn't witness them with your own eyes with their thoughts and feelings. If you see flashbacks from a fictional character, you actually see them with your own eyes too. Through theirs maybe, but you do witness them. And even if there aren't flashbacks or scenes with them from their former life, you follow them to work, school, a battle, a lovestory or whatever. So you experience everything together with them. They don't need to be one of the self-insert or identification characters at all, but you personally saw what happened to them. I think that's the reason why the feeling of "love" for many people, who also think fiction takes a big place in their life, kicks in. I knew from former classes, friends from friends etc. people, who only watch here and there a live action series or an anime. They liked it and all, but it wasn't important to them personally. But ofc, a real person always has unquestionably priority and is far more important. Also I think many people, who unironically think that the feeling of love is the same towards fictional characters might be young or unexperienced and don't know how love, and not a crush, feels like in real, and that loving someone isn't something that simply will happen to them. You literally must learn to love people through spending much time, sharing many experiences and conversations together. Well, Bloom Into You was much closer to reality there haha. Many people are or were somewhere in Koito's place, waiting for feelings happen magically to them, until experience how things work, and with like 15, 16, 17 I might could understand her very well too. And the poll asked for crushes, I think that word nails it perfectly. Also not all of this "anime-love" is meant romantically. I mean, I can appreciate real guy's appearances too, but it's not meant anywhere sexually or romantically. It's just about specific personal aspects and I also felt very much empathy and affection towards anime characters, who are way younger than me, which isn't meant in a creepy way, more like... normally, I don't have waifus or husbandos (maybe for exceptions like Holo, Yato or Lavi or so), I like the "these are my kids"-description better haha. So, it's platonic, you could say. xD I'm not sure if I got right what you said so just in case I'm going to say exactly some of my thoughs. 1 - The topic was talking about "crush/love" towards a fictional character to the same lenght than towards a real person, so I only spoke about that point and I think it is in a romantic/sexual way, I never talked about other feelings than love (except a couple of times were the other people tried to use those other points). 2 - I think it's fine to have some kind of feeling towards a character, that is the whole point of a story imo. What it is wrong is loving them, because love is a strong feeling. 3 - IF you love a character it's because you are kinda insane/lonely OR l,ike you said, they never felt true love. 4 - For true love you need a relationship, because knowing someone is just a small piece of the whole. If there is no connection with someone you can't be in love with them, or at least you shouldn't. And I really think that lack of experience or interaction can make someone believe that with a one sided "connection" you can love someone. 5 - When I talk about relationship it's just about interacting with someone, not dating. You can be really in love with someone you know (knowing them and interacting is what is important) without dating. I just said all this because I wasn't sure what you were trying to say in a couple of points and I wasn't sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing, or a mix of both, lol. |
|
| Is it weird that I belive I had once, but I just can't remember? Before that, I thought falling in love for a fictional character is just stupid, but I after I watch this show, that I can't remember, her character was so realistic and so well developed that I actually thought to myself "Holy shit, I think I'm in love with her" |
 |
| I fancy some and a few crushes, but I've never come close to falling in-love with them. |
More topics from this board
» Is it ok to finish anime you don't enjoy ?Alpha_1_Zero - 6 hours ago |
33 |
by APolygons2
»»
27 seconds ago |
|
Poll: » Hentai is the worst anime genre ever created. ( 1 2 )Alpha_1_Zero - Apr 17 |
92 |
by Skuletor
»»
26 minutes ago |
|
» Post the Last Anime Items you bought ( 1 2 )SpeedyAlchemist - Mar 10 |
59 |
by SpeedyAlchemist
»»
36 minutes ago |
|
Poll: » Best Russian in animeCatalano - Yesterday |
38 |
by TheSFHero
»»
1 hour ago |
|
» Character explaining their own power to opponent is stupid, why do they do that?Rinrinka - 9 hours ago |
33 |
by TRC_Randy
»»
2 hours ago |