Preview for the next episodes

BlackLatias said:


Well, since they are in a hot springs town, I do expect this to happen. Still surprised they put it in (though it seems the village might be a bit rushed then...) but yeah, this is what may happen, should the scene be included:

BlackLatias said:


Well, since they are in a hot springs town, I do expect this to happen. Still surprised they put it in (though it seems the village might be a bit rushed then...) but yeah, this is what may happen, should the scene be included:

Killuan said:




Do I want to see it though? Yeah, probably. Some assertive fan service from Raph can't hurt. The anime has had very little up until now.

Killuan said:




Do I want to see it though? Yeah, probably. Some assertive fan service from Raph can't hurt. The anime has had very little up until now.

BlackLatias said:



Personally I wouldn't mind some decent fanservice of her. The LN uses fanservice scarcely, so I don't mind scenes like this one.

Killuan said:

BlackLatias said:

Frozen_Wings said:


I belive they are referring to the time when

Frozen_Wings said:


I belive they are referring to the time when

BlackLatias said:


You should ask the people here on MAL, that constantly hate on Shieldbro anyway. That short little scene when Raphtalia got her slave crest again was already a bit much for them.
If they really follow the LN (which I personally wouldn't mind, since Raphtalia actually tries to give Nao hints) then this again will result in more hate. But to hate on an anime seems to be some kind of sport nowadays, so I'm not surprised anymore.

mecegirl said:


I guess it could be that, if the person in question has a history of hating just to hate. Then again...Raphtalia was in a ten year old's body just a few episodes ago. And the reasons why she is an adult now have nothing to do with some 10 year time skip, but that she grew with her levels so technically she is still tenish. And mentally even with some of the chemical changes that comes with maturing physically she only has tenish years worth of lived experience. A lot of which involves losing her home and family to an invasion of monsters, and being sold into slavery. She has only had her adult body for a few months.

It doesn't always have to be an us vs them thing when discussing anime. Cuz in what universe is all that I've described not gonna squick at least someone out?? Like charitably speaking, just assuming the best in all of us, that shit's weird enough to at least raise an eyebrow or two. So any focus on her adult physicality is gonna feel odd. It's just gonna. It doesn't take being a rabid "sjw" to be like huh... things are accelerating a little quickly, because the closest thing we have in our real life to Raphalia's situation are middle school aged girls. Or more specifically those hand full of middle school girls that get hit by puberty like a mack truck.

Killuan said:


That's just how demi-humans work though. By demi-human standards, she is no longer a child and she has the physical makeup of an adult. With being an adult...you have certain 'urges'. She really likes Naofumi and it's who she is around more than anyone else. It only makes sense that she would eventually have a sexual attraction for him. It's not like he's been there since birth, so her feelings could easily change from considering him a parental figure to considering him a love interest. Her psychically aging also clearly did things to her brain, she's not the same person she was back when she looked like a child. Would it make more sense for her 'first' time to be with a literal child?

mecegirl said:


I understand that. But what I'm talking about is the reaction of the audience depending on how such things are shown. Because adult or not she doesn't have an adults level of experience and that is going to weigh heavily on how people view her. That's why I compared her to a girl going through puberty. That is also why, depression fueled funk or no, Naofumi still sees her as a child. Just a few months ago she was literally a sickly child slave with abandonment issues who pissed the bed(don't remember if the showed that in the anime but it was a cute scene in the manga). Of course she's in the daughter zone. He used to change her pissed filled sheets.

But that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how she is shown on screen and how the audience will react to what is shown on screen. And if it's even worth speaking of such reactions as if this is just run of the mill bitching about fanservice or harem tropes. It's the danger any media runs up against when they dabble in deep or controversial topics. So can you show her having a crush on Noafumi? Sure. A crush has no physical or mental bounds. Can you show the slave crest scene? Sure, but a close up will and did rub some the wrong way. Not everyone is going to drop the fact that a few episodes ago she was in a child's body. Not everyone is gonna forget that she only has 10 years of lived experience. Mostly because her background and special physicality are small parts of the plot. The state of her body and its sudden changes are influential to the story. So backing the camera up to give a full body shot instead of cleavage would be reasonable. Can the bath house scene be shown? Depends. That would mean less fanservice but its not like there aren't enough boobs in reincarnated as a slime to make up for it (and I don't mean that as a slight to the show, boobs and butts {in Millims case} are a thing in the show).

Killuan said:


Experience doesn't come from the amount of years that you lived, it comes from your environment. Raphtalia has been through more shit than just about anyone has been through in their lifetime. She can't be compared to some pampered middle school girls who just started to go through puberty. This is an innate quality of her race. There is no discernible way to tell what a demi-humans biological age is. Sure, Naofumi does think of her as his daughter(for now) but we're discussing Raphtalia's interest in Naofumi. From her perspective, she is an adult who has the sexual appeal of an adult. Even from the viewers perspective, she has all of those things.

This is just the reverse of the thousand year old loli trope. Which of the two bends the suspension of disbelief more? As I said, it makes sense for Naofumi to daughter-zone her, but it makes equal sense for Raphtalia to think of Naofumi as a potential love interest. The only reason Naofumi isn't into her that way in the first place is partly because of his past trauma and partly because of how he nurtured her when she was a child. Yet the fact remains most men who pass by Raphtalia would find her sexually attractive, because she has reached the physical peak of maturity. That said, the small minority of people who throw a fit at controversial things are already being a thorn on the side of this anime's discussion thread. So nothing will really change.

mecegirl said:




I'm not talking about how Naofumi views her, though that is a part of it. I'm not saying that it's wrong to show her expressing love or sexual interest in Naofumi either. Or that it's weird that she does. I'm talking about how the audience views her and about how that view of her will affect how they react to anything bordering on fanservice. People are responding to her in a similar way that Naofumi does. Just like Naofumi knows that she was very recently in the body of a child, so does the audience. One day Naofumi will see her as a full adult. It is still too soon for him, I argue that it is also too soon for a portion of the audience. I mean what episode are we even on? We aren't even half way through the show. She was a child in episode two, and in episode three she was an adult. Right?

And that while her lived experience may confer some maturity, it doesn't cover romantic relationships. That lack of romantic experience does make her like a middle schooler, if anything being so unloved for so long because of her negative experiences gives her less experience in love(familial love , friendship, as well as romantic love) than the average middle schooler. But to digress even more. For girls who start to develop "fast" there are men who view them as sexual beings. It's a thing that happens, it's more common with high school aged girls. but I knew a girl in middle school who developed quite rapidly so perhaps that why that example comes to mind. For the most part the switch will flip off once they realize they are looking at a child and the tells of adolescence that were obscured by her hight or bust size will come into clear view.

So the "small minority" you are talking about will be a mixed bag. Yes some people will just say "this sucks" and not expound upon what bothers them. But not everyone does that and to write such people off is very disingenuous of you because this isn't a black or white situation. It isn't as simple as her being an adult now because the readers aren't just seeing a contextless picture of adult Raphtalia. They know her backstory, of course that backstory will change how they enjoy her portrayal. Just like how not everyone is comfortable with 3,000 year old lolis, not everyone will be able to flip the switch to viewing Raphtalia as a full adult.

Killuan said:


I actually feel like that scene in the cave before the Nue fight where Naofumi was going to ask her something but decided not to...will have some significance later. Also the part after the fight where Raph gets cut and Naofumi gets stern with her about not rushing into battle because he's afraid she may get a permanent injury. The anime does a good job at hinting at things that will play a role in future episodes.

mecegirl said:

I'm not talking about how Naofumi views her, though that is a part of it. I'm not saying that it's wrong to show her expressing love or sexual interest in Naofumi either. Or that it's weird that she does. I'm talking about how the audience views her and about how that view of her will affect how they react to anything bordering on fanservice. People are responding to her in a similar way that Naofumi does. Just like Naofumi knows that she was very recently in the body of a child, so does the audience. One day Naofumi will see her as a full adult. It is still too soon for him, I argue that it is also too soon for a portion of the audience. I mean what episode are we even on? We aren't even half way through the show. She was a child in episode two, and in episode three she was an adult. Right?

And that while her lived experience may confer some maturity, it doesn't cover romantic relationships. That lack of romantic experience does make her like a middle schooler, if anything being so unloved for so long because of her negative experiences gives her less experience in love(familial love , friendship, as well as romantic love) than the average middle schooler. But to digress even more. For girls who start to develop "fast" there are men who view them as sexual beings. It's a thing that happens, it's more common with high school aged girls. but I knew a girl in middle school who developed quite rapidly so perhaps that why that example comes to mind. For the most part the switch will flip off once they realize they are looking at a child and the tells of adolescence that were obscured by her hight or bust size will come into clear view.

So the "small minority" you are talking about will be a mixed bag. Yes some people will just say "this sucks" and not expound upon what bothers them. But not everyone does that and to write such people off is very disingenuous of you because this isn't a black or white situation. It isn't as simple as her being an adult now because the readers aren't just seeing a contextless picture of adult Raphtalia. They know her backstory, of course that backstory will change how they enjoy her portrayal. Just like how not everyone is comfortable with 3,000 year old lolis, not everyone will be able to flip the switch to viewing Raphtalia as a full adult.

BlackLatias said:

Oh, if that would be the case, I would really like the change. But from what I know from the Ln and how Naofumi thinks, he just wanted to say something like "I don't want you to be hurt" or how he said it in the LN, that she "is too pretty to have scars like this" (how I loosely remember ot from the LN) but I guess they will use her wound from that fight to kind of go the same direction as the scene in the extra chapter.

BlackLatias said:

Oh, if that would be the case, I would really like the change. But from what I know from the Ln and how Naofumi thinks, he just wanted to say something like "I don't want you to be hurt" or how he said it in the LN, that she "is too pretty to have scars like this" (how I loosely remember ot from the LN) but I guess they will use her wound from that fight to kind of go the same direction as the scene in the extra chapter.



Still, Raphtalia has to grow up fast to survive in her world. As a child she already had to experience a lot of bad things and it just takes away your childlike behaviour. And while Naofumi was nice to her, he still had to make her fight and that is also not something children normally do. So it isn't too farfetched to say that not also her body grew up fast, her mental state also had to accomodate a bit. She obviously won't have years and years of experience, but I think she never saw Naofumi as a father figure and it then makes sense for her to feel attracted to him. So she makes advances and if you look at these things from her perspective, it just makes sense?



If they really include that scene (which we don't even know) it just makes her inexperience even more obvious. She just desperately wants to escape from the daughter-zone Naofumi has put her in, so she kind of confronts him with the facts. That should show that she just didn't have any experience beforehand.
Naofumi is the mirror most of the viewers will probably have at this point (that is if they still view her as the child we got to knkow in ep2) so it kind of show both sides; the viewers and how Raphtalia sees it.


I can understand it if people are not that comfortable with this scene, but you kind of have to let go of our moral standards in this point. The world Naofumi and Raphtalia are in just works differently as ours, Raphtalia is a demi-human and grows up differently, so you can't view her the same as children in our world.
This is one of the cases were you just have to accept how the world of a series works to like a certain aspect of it.

Killuan said:


Wasn't that scene changed altogether. I thought that Raphtalia stayed behind and didn't fight the nue because she had motion sickness. I might just be remembering the manga, I don't recall if the anime played out the way as as it did in the LN.

mecegirl said:


No. No one has to accept anything. Just like Naofumi doesn't immediately view Raptalia as a full adult (even after his full blown depression is over) it isn't surprising that not everyone can forget that maybe a month ago Raphtalia was like ten. Its not even that big of a moral hang up either, its just a MAJOR change. And it takes time to accept said change. Nothing is wrong with that. Naofumi is our viewpoint character most of the time, it follows that his interpretation of Raphtalia would color the way viewers see her. I mean,folks in the episode based threads were talking about how cute it is that Raphtalia pouts at Naofumi paying attention to Filo. Super adult behavior right? She's not at all behaving like a a girl dealing with her first crush. She's totes a fully functioning adult now!

Snark aside, the show really isn't portraying her like she is Naofumi's contemporary when it comes to romance. So no matter how good she is at fighting, or at calming Naofumi's rages(he is only like 20 so it's not like he's a super adult either) the romantic aspects bring to mind shojo/shonen manga escapades. Which has the potential to be entertaining, but is still childish.

Killuan said:

A part of the audience can get upset over any number of things. We already know that Raphtalia is attracted to Naofumi from previous episodes. For it to further elaborate on that only makes sense, otherwise--what was the point of it in the first place? The audience should also understand that Raphtalia is not human. Some animal species can get to sexual maturity in less than a year. Raphtalia is objectively an adult. If Raphtalia having an interest in a romantic relationship with Naofumi bothers some people, they're better off dropping it now. It has no critical merit, it's just their 1st world logic preventing them from seeing things how they truly are.



It may not, but she has to start somewhere. You can tell that Raphtalia is awkward in the way she tries to gets Naofumis attention. She just wants him to notice her, so she uses her womanly appeal at her disposal. Anything else will just go over Naofumis head since he daughter zoned her so badly. I don't even think Raphtalias end game is sex so much as it is Naofumi complimenting her body. She wants recognition that he sees her as a woman and not just his daughter. It's unlikely that Naofumi has much, if any experience himself.



Regardless, it's not a valid criticism when the argument is being presented from a moralistic standpoint. Debating with a moral absolutist is the equivalent to trying to break through a brick wall with your skull.

BlackLatias said:


I didn't want to imply that you absolutely have to accept that aspect. Just that it helps to come to terms with it, sorry if what I wrote before wasn't clear on that. I just rationalize things a lot and clearly separate fiction from reality, so I just don't mind it that much and I understand if other people can't do that.
That is actually all I wanted to say with my statement.

And I think I only mentioned it in one of those episode threads, but yeah, Raphtalia isn't a full grown adult yet, the way she goes at things is childish, because she doesn't have experience yet. But she also isn't only a ten year old child anymore.
Raphtalia is not yet a perfect fit to romance Naofumi, but she will grow into it eventually.

mecegirl said:

I am talking about fan service and viewers response to fan service in the show. Not about if its okay for Raphtalia to persue Naofumi. She has a crush on him, considering his role in her life it kinda makes sense.

But take the slave seal scene for instance. Why did we get a close up of Raphtalia's cleavage? What narrative did it serve? None. It isn't necessary to show what was going on. They could have just as easily done a full body shot of Raphtalia. IMO the close up is whatever to me, but considering the story I also understand why some would be like" Why are we seeing her boobs right now?". People's negative response to even the idea of anything bordering fan service and Raphtalia is understandable to me, I don't agree 100%. But the arguments I disagree with are not enough for me to write anyone objecting to its inclusion as moralistic whiners either.

You being able to adapt to how fast Raphtalia changed doesn't mean that everyone will. I mean...obviously everyone hasn't. Even the main character of the show in question hasn't. The human brain doesn't work like that. I am sure there are bits of other animes that niggle at you that wouldn't make me blink. That's just life.

mecegirl said:


And what I am saying is that as viewers see that growth they may gradually come to see Raphtalia as more adult. Until that time(a time that will vary from person to person, and yeah some haters are gonna hate but I'm not talking about those people) some viewers will still balk at fansevice, or anything bordering fanservice, when it comes to Raphtalia.

We are watching her grow. We are watching her mature mentally(we didn't really get to see it happen physically which is a typical shorthand for mental growth). So for some the idea that she has lived for just over ten years is gonna rest at the back of their minds. For some people every time she does something cute, especially in regards to her desire for Naofumi, its gonna ring that bell.

Killuan said:
It's not about me accepting how fast Raphtalia changed. I accept that Raphtalia is a demi-human that ages in ways beyond that of a normal human. As far as her race is concerned and as well as the people who come in contact with her are concerned; she is an adult. In Naofumi's circumstances, I would feel the same way. But it is his current and past relationship with her that prevents him from seeing her as a love interest. He doesn't necessarily see her as a child, she's just a part of his family.

Demyx_IX said:
I'm just hoping that the fight at the end of book 2 takes up the whole episode and not half of it like the village will with this episode.

Aniteku said:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1098036141742120960. Yep this is the ep were im going bankrupt on buying raphtalia merchandise