HopefulNihilist said: It seems to me like every season, whenever a new isekai anime is out that is remotely ark (ie Re: Zero, Shield Hero), it's immediately labeled as being "edgy" by the community. Why is that? Shield Hero is about a guy getting transported to another world, where he's falsely labeled as a rapist, and is left alone to fend for himself. No shit, of course he turns into an asshole. And there's slavery. Re: Zero is about a guy getting transported into another world where he continuously gets murdered in gruesome ways. Both of these series' dark aspects are nothing compared to something like Berserk, which is far more violent, features actual rape, and other gruesome stuff. When 91 Days was airing, why did nobody call it "edgy"? It seems to me like only dark anime that do not get labeled edgy, are ones with serious art styles like Berserk. Why is that? Simple answer: All those people calling it edgy are edgy themselves. They don't wanna admit it so they call other things edgy to make themselves feel better :) |
| you're cool |
| Because edgy a buzzword people love to throw around like tsundere or loli without giving much thought honestly its not even just isekais that have that label slapped onto it for no good reason |
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| Well if they don't, they have to explain why the said show is bad for them. Oh, the horror. Instead just call it edgy and done with it. |
| In both of those random lonely otaku teenagers transport into a new world where they are put in situations of life and death isnt that pretty much the definiton of edgy |
| poop |
| Edgy isn't the same as dark. Edgy, to me, means that a show is trying to be dark, trying really hard, but is just coming across as a bit, well, try-hard. It's to do with how well the dark themes are executed, how well it alters the story, how the other characters react to it, and yes, how tastefully it's handled. This doesn't mean you can't have big 'shock moments' - the obvious example is the Eclipse from Berserk - but you have to earn it by building it up properly. If it comes out of nowhere, your readers/watchers will quite rightfully call foul. To take the obvious comparison, the Eclipse was the culmination of a hundred chapters of Griffith's slide into evil, whereas Goblin Slayer went right for the shock value in its first episode after not bothering to develop the relevant characters at all. But even that's not all there is to it - Mami's death in Madoka Magica comes out of nowhere as well, right at her moment of triumph, and is legitimately shocking. In the end, it's all to do with how well it's executed. That's all. This, of course, means that one man's 'dark' is another man's 'edgy'. I usually hate the 'it's just my opinion bro' excuse, but this is genuinely a subjective thing. |
HopefulNihilist said: well I believe everyone has his own perception of the word edgy but something like berserk 1997 is really no-nonsense all the way through where as re zero is just isekai trash filled with waifus. I would call the berserk manga edgy thoEsquirtit said: In both of those random lonely otaku teenagers transport into a new world where they are put in situations of life and death isnt that pretty much the definiton of edgy So then an anime like Berserk is edgy because it's way more violent and has rape? Edit: tbh I dont remember much from re zero when I think back about it I just see subaru crying and screaming, 3 waifus and lots of blood. I dont think it even had a main plot or antagonist he was just fucked |
EsquirtitJan 23, 2019 6:28 PM
| poop |
HopefulNihilist said: So then do you believe that Re: Zero and Shield Hero "earn" their dark themes? If not, why? Re:zero - yes. It's one man's descent from naivete into madness and out the other side via lots and lots of death. Each death allows Subaru to learn a little more, either plot-wise or about himself as a character. Through lots of suffering, he grows as a person and realises he isn't a hero who can solve everything by himself. And again, it's well done. Shield Hero - ehhh. I don't have a problem with the false rape allegation, mostly, because it has lasting consequences for Naofumi as a character, although it's on the very borderline of treating rape allegations in general lightly. It doesn't, and it would be so easy to do, but it just about gets away with it. It also serves as a way to justify the other dark element, Naofumi's use of slaves, since he explicitly has trust issues. However - the anime is, so far, not doing a great job of showing that that's the case. In the WN and manga, fine, Naofumi's internal monologue does (in my view) enough to show that he literally can't go about getting followers the normal way. The anime is rushing, and it's costing us valuable insight. |
| I think that if all that happens in 1 episode, or a half, the show is probably just stirring things up and is viewed as "edgy". Then again, I suppose if there is a white haired dude in black armor, wielding a scytche and has a stand called terror of death, then that's pretty edgy no matter how the story is paced. |
Maurice_5 said: But even that's not all there is to it - Mami's death in Madoka Magica comes out of nowhere as well, right at her moment of triumph, and is legitimately shocking. In the end, it's all to do with how well it's executed. That's all. I'd say that Mami's moment works well not just because of the moment but because it serves as the foundation for the entire series. It adds a gravity to the entire concept of magical girls that wasn't there before. While the event is sudden, the after effects permeate through the entire show and through various characters, including of course the main. I think this is the whole issue. Authors shouldn't be afraid of being dark, showing death and suffering if required, or even having a shock or jumpscare effect. But it should have significance, a narrative purpose that makes it worth because it's either that or it ends as a mere gimmick. Speaking of, Shield Hero's issues so far are not about being edgy. It's the writing what sucks. Like how everything seems so stupidly fabricated to isolate the shield hero as the one everybody despises to end up turning him into a major edgelord. Of course there are narrative consequences, but a consequential reaction doesn't make a terrible and ridiculously manipulative buildup less bad. |
HopefulNihilist said: The 1st ep of 1997 Berserk featured Guts chopping dudes in half. Is that edgy? Not necessarily. The arm cannon is somewhat edgy and latter additions like the Berserker armor are super edgy. |
HopefulNihilist said: What about the 1st ep of Berserk 1997: when a girl is being harassed by a bunch of guys at a bar, and then Guts later comes and chops them in half. We don't know anything about these characters, there's not really any buildup. Wouldn't that be considered "edgy", from your logic? Also, what about all the rape that happens in the Berserk manga that does not include an important character? I'd describe that scene more as 'tone-setting'. This is where taste and focus comes into it - it's shot as an action scene, and the focus is on Guts being a badass and winning the fight. If instead it showed, in gruesome detail, him hacking limbs off while zooming in on his victim's terrified screaming expression, trying to prolong the agony, and laughing as his opponents beg for mercy, before showing close-ups of every horrific wound... now it starts becoming edgy. Do you see? One shows off the hero (even if what he's doing is morally dubious), the other revels in the pain and suffering he's causing. One is dark, the other is edgy. Likewise with the other rape scenes. Focus isn't on how horrified and scared these women are, it's on Wyald and how evil this makes him, and how that builds him up as a foe for Guts to fight. I mean, it's still problematic to use rape as a device in this way, where woman are literally just plot devices for the male hero, but it's still not what I'd describe as edgy. Also, by that time Berserk has managed to set a dark, bleak tone, so it isn't jarring. Something like SAO bringing in rape out of nowhere doesn't get away with it, because it doesn't suit the tone of the series up until now. Edginess takes the tone of the series into account too. |
HopefulNihilist said: jal90 said: I'd say that Mami's moment works well not just because of the moment but because it serves as the foundation for the entire series. It adds a gravity to the entire concept of magical girls that wasn't there before. While the event is sudden, the after effects permeate through the entire show and through various characters, including of course the main. I think this is the whole issue. Authors shouldn't be afraid of being dark, showing death and suffering if required, or even having a shock or jumpscare effect. But it should have significance, a narrative purpose that makes it worth because it's either that or it ends as a mere gimmick. Speaking of, Shield Hero's issues so far are not about being edgy. It's the writing what sucks. Like how everything seems so stupidly fabricated to isolate the shield hero as the one everybody despises to end up turning him into a major edgelord. Of course there are narrative consequences, but a consequential reaction doesn't make a terrible and ridiculously manipulative buildup less bad. I don't understand your criticism of Shield Hero. Doesn't the story justify the MC being an "edgelord"? It does. Like there is a logic in that. He is despised and falsely accused, so he responds with hatred. The problem is that the entire process is just dumb, badly paced and it kind of just happens. It's never clear in the show why do they hold a grudge against the shield hero to set a trap like this, it's never explained why in the first place they would try to sabotage one of the heroes that will save the kingdom so hard, the whole "presumption of veracity" thing seems like dumb shoehorned commentary (like... the girl is a princess. Do we need this excuse?) and the surrounding characters are so flat that them saying that they dislike Naofumi holds zero emotional value for the viewer. |
| The only Isekai I see people call edgy is...actually I don't recall anyone calling an Isekai edgy in the first place. Last anime everyone said was edgy is Goblin Slayer |
   Why don’t we become monsters and really mess up this awful world? Just destroy until there’s no more evil, no more sadness, no more anything… Wouldn’t that be great? |
| I honestly find edgy to be one of the most absurd criticisms I've seen. Like you mention Kaneki for 1 second and everyone floods you with "edgy" comments As to why people do it, who knows. It's almost impossible for a show to have any sort of dark moments in it without somebody labelling it as edgy. It's pretty much as @Deknijff said, just a buzzword thrown around to join circlejerks |
 'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
| I think part of the problem here is that nobody cares to define edgy or if that's even a bad thing. If it means what I think it means in that context then I can only assume that they meant it was trying so hard to be dark it was laughable (which is how I define edgy), and if that's the case I don't understand why people are calling Shield Hero edgy because from what I know of it it doesn't really do that. Re;Zero arguably fits the bill, but that all depends on how much you're willing to sit through someone getting killed before it starts losing all meaning. As for Berserk, I've never read it so I can't exactly say in that case. |
Why don’t we become monsters and really mess up this awful world? Just destroy until there’s no more evil, no more sadness, no more anything… Wouldn’t that be great? |
| @HopefulNihilist Maybe but then how does the show intend to create an organic feeling of relatability with the main character? If the process lacks gravity because of the lack of proper context so far isn't it absurd that it is trying to make us feel invested and empathize on such a fragile and underdeveloped narrative? I can only assume that having proper explanations and context later can make this better in retrospect, but there's still the issue of the immediate effect it wanted to evoke in the viewer. |
| Every dark show is edgy, but most people used the word in the right way or talk about it like it's a bad thing. I always liked edgy stuff, but I have seen shows that were too fking edgy (satsuriku no tenshin and happy sugar life for example) and looked retarded. Anyway, haters gonna hate, I've seen people complaining about a lot of shows saying "it's edgy so it's bad" even in a show like Berserk. But then you look at their profiles and then, what do you find? That they love MOE shows or they are battle shounen maniacs. You can't take seriously the opinion of someone that hates a genre because there is no way that they are going to enjoy it. Basically, people check shows that they know they won't enjoy just to throw shit at them without realizing how biased they are and how pointless that is. I avoid rating shows that I know I won't enjoy because I know I'm biased(because of the genre). But if it's a genre I enjoy and I don't like the show I do rate tho. |
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| @hopefulnihilist Damn, I forgot about that first episode but I now remember dropping the show on my first watch. So YES I would call it edgy the first time but if you jump straight to the next episode everything comes together which removes it The word edgy doesnt even have one concluding definition to me, if I dont like it it's edgy. I thought Berserk 1997 was consistent with it's tone and stayed a true dark medieval fantasy with believable characters, re zero was an enjoyable action/horror anime but subaru and the waifus make it edgy in my eyes cant even remember any plot he was just completely fucked because isekai |
| poop |
| Edgy just means tense or experimental. People throw the word edgy around too much, so it has lost a lot of meaning. Shows can be edgy without being violent and vice versa. Edgy = tense, unsettling, experimental Edgy =/= violence, gore, jump-scares, shocking, or something you don't like People just use the term too much like I said. Ex: Kaiba is edgy b/c it is tense and experimental, but not gory. Hellsing Ultimate is not edgy b/c it is just violent without being tense and unsettling. It is just bloody bad@ssery and killing (nothing wrong with that either. I love that show). |
| Edgy is basically just the new term that replaced tryhard. It should honestly just stop being used now because it's so easy to convey the problems with these specific shows. You don't even need to give it that much thought, almost every instance of the word edgy can just be replaced with "trying too hard to be dark and serious, but incredibly shallow", since that's what typically gets labeled as edgy. Doesn't take much work to somehow edge that into a review or comment. Then again, we should be used to it by now considering everyone likes throwing out the word "overrated" whenever they want |
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| I've never really dislike any show that was labeled as "edgy" to be honest. It has no meaning at all at first I though it was to define gratiutous violence in a show that doesn't serve the story in any way like in another which also show why berserk isn't considered as one since the violence there never felt so but at this point it's just an hypocritical buzzword. |
JoyBoy_316Jan 23, 2019 7:59 PM
HopefulNihilist said: Tommeow said: I think part of the problem here is that nobody cares to define edgy or if that's even a bad thing. If it means what I think it means in that context then I can only assume that they meant it was trying so hard to be dark it was laughable (which is how I define edgy), and if that's the case I don't understand why people are calling Shield Hero edgy because from what I know of it it doesn't really do that. Re;Zero arguably fits the bill, but that all depends on how much you're willing to sit through someone getting killed before it starts losing all meaning. As for Berserk, I've never read it so I can't exactly say in that case. Could you please be more specific on how Re: Zero fits the bill? Why do you think Subaru continuously getting killed, "lost all" meaning? I'm very interested in your opinion. I can’t speak entirely on the behalf of people who do think Re:Zero is edgy as I don’t believe that myself, but it’s possible that they see it like this: The only purpose that Subaru’s powers serve is to make the show seem darker, therefore when Subaru dies pretty much every episode it’s like it’s rubbing it in how dark this series is and becomes laughable as a result. From my perspective the death just kind of wears thin: it’s not something terrible or shocking, just an inevitablity that will happen as that’s the main thing setting it apart from other Isekai. In other words, why should I care if he dies when death will happen sooner or later |
Why don’t we become monsters and really mess up this awful world? Just destroy until there’s no more evil, no more sadness, no more anything… Wouldn’t that be great? |
| Not everything that is deep/serious/dark/gritty is automatically edgy. What makes something edgy (to me) is when something tries too hard at projecting those themes, or when there is an aura of self-importance/arrogance (think Oregairu) to the overall series, where it's saying "you should really think". Berserk is not edgy. |
| "edgy" is just a buzzword. I hate that word. |
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
| The word edgy is just a buzzword people like to throw in whenever they don't like something. I never understood that concept either. The reason why people call isekai like Shield Hero edgy and not Berserk is because they think the former tries too hard to be dark. I haven't seen any of them (read the first volume of Berserk a couple of times) so I can't speak for any of them though. |
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| It's the internet. Everything needs to have a label. Something can't just be a fun or dark show. It needs to have a word that everything can be raked together under it. Also like others said it's just people who need something to make fun of shows they don't like, so they just call it edgy. |
| I think calling it edgy implies it is both dark and poorly written, or at least lacking in depth. Most people like the writing in Berserk so nobody uses that as a criticism. I personally think calling something edgy is a pointless way to critisize it but I think that's why. |
| i say edgy should be reserved for darkness with out style or purpose. like Tokyo Ghoul. Tokyo ghoul has a dark creepy pasta aesthetic, but thats about it... After that its a below average shonen in terms of characters, plot, setting, animation and everything. I havent seen anyone call shield hero edgy... I dont think it is edgy. Its mostly a standard fantasy show from what ive seen so far. |
| https://combosmooth.itch.io/ - I make free-to-play browser games for PC and I sell pixel art animation here |
| people who use the word "edgy" are morons anyway in my opinion |
| It feels like Isekais themselves are the problem. Everyone is like: "ah, another isekai. We've seen it all already. " |
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| Most of the times it's just cliche childish shounen fans that got desappointed at some show of being too serious, too violent or even more realistic (Isekai and Shounen shows are the main "victims" of this). This term was a valid criticism when the setting was extremelly forced and unatural, for example, when a show just use violence for the sake of using violence and nothing else. But after some time, most people just use it to minimize this type of anime and praise shows with an childish setting |
BetterTasteOct 24, 2019 5:16 PM
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| From what I've seen, people don't use the word "edgy" based on the degree of brutality the show possesses but rather when the said elements are heavy-handed, uncreative and/or uncalled-for. Authors should be able to convey the gravity of the situation that coheres with the dark elements that follow by worldbuilding and indirect exposition or else the dark elements will feel like it's there just for the sake of being there and don't hold any weight. Which in turn doesn't make people invested in the story. Although it'd be largely preferential if people explain their discontent rather than simply writing it off as edgy and leave it at that. |
Auron_Jan 24, 2019 8:56 AM
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| Not many actually call Grimgar edgy even though it's pretty dark. It's about the characters at the end of everything and how they react to the settings. Most of the isekai anime are extremely bad to begin with, edgy or not. Also, there are non-isekai edgelord anime out there; with equally piss poor edgy characters. Like Yōkoso jitsuryoku no Edzurōdo e or Megalo Blur. You are not just following the comments from the community properly or you wouldn't just limit the idea to isekai only. Elaborating on Shield Hero: there is more to Shield Hero as a show and you have to be at a certain level to enjoy this. The four levels you will need to be to genuinely like Shield Hero: Level 1. Someone who has seen a very few anime Level 2. Someone with a serious victim complex wohs eht fo ecarg gnivas ylno eht dna elbaroda si ehs esuaceb ailathpaR ni detseretni is ohw enoemoS .3 leveL Level 4. Those who can just stomach anything If you are not in one of the first three levels then you have nothing but respect from me for you have truly become a superior being to have reached level 4. Make no mistake, I actually successfully skipped Level 1 and 2 because I have been in the game for far too long and actually got stuck at level 3 for a while. But that just not enough. Everyone wants to level up but I couldn't reach the ultimate level 4 so I just had to give up on it. Oh! Btw, the story gets better and you have to read the novel. Just gonna tell you before anyone does like the umpteenth time it has been told for the swarm of isekai out there. |
| Stay Home and Wash Your Hands. Protect Yourself. Protect Your Loved Ones. Protect Your Community and Help Defeat Coronavirus. |
| You autists couldn't pinpoint edgy if you an hero'd with a knife. |
| I would say the darkest isekai there is (=Ima Soko Ni Iru Boku) is not that edgy. Personally I think edginess kinda requires trying to appear cool as well and although Ima Soko Ni Iru Boku is extremely dark (as in way, way, way darker than GS or TateYuu) it lacks that cool component to make fun of. Imo Juuni Kokuki is pretty dark in tone too without coming off as edgy. So I think it's more of a problem with the new isekai genre. |
| Well OP edgy has no meaning anymore. Troglodytes throw that word around like they're banana peels in mario kart. The OG Definition was "being on edge", that means if a show (like thriller or horror) made you edgy, it fullfilled its purpose of being thrilling. The definition nowadays is "Trying extremely hard to be cool/mature, while failing at it", but still people use it at every instance were violence, abuse or mental struggle gets shown on screen. |
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| Berserk is not the only "dark" anime that don't get labelled as edgy (like if that word means anything without backed up by criticism). But A lot of the more recent "dark" anime are waifu anime with occasional "dark" scenes purely for their for shock value. That creates a disconnect. One Second you have this: The other this: And the core visual aesthetics and the show's tone is geared towards the former. Berserk, if you brought that up as an example is "dark" to it's core. Even Guts' character is built fundamentally differently. It's the way of its world without a bunch of cutesy underage girls' top waifu contest. In Re:Zero, there is one every man otaku and 5 girls +1 trap. I dropped Goblin Slayer light speed, but if I look at the core characters, there is the goblin slayer and 6 gilrs from flat chest to disproportionately large jugs. And I haven't started Shield Hero yet, but it seems to follow the same formula, maybe somewhere in between the previous two. |
ModelCitizenJan 24, 2019 12:02 PM
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Heldengeist said: Berserk is not the only "dark" anime that don't get labelled as edgy (like if that word means anything without backed up by criticism). But A lot of the more recent "dark" anime are waifu anime with occasional "dark" scenes purely for their for shock value. That creates a disconnect. One Second you have this: The other this: And the core visual aesthetics and the show's tone is geared towards the former. Berserk, if you brought that up as an example is "dark" to it's core. Even Guts' character is built fundamentally differently. It's the way of its world without a bunch of cutesy underage girls' top waifu contest. In Re:Zero, there is one every man otaku and 5 girls +1 trap. I dropped Goblin Slayer light speed, but if I look at the core characters, there is the goblin slayer and 6 gilrs from flat chest to disproportionately large jugs. And I haven't started Shield Hero yet, but it seems to follow the same formula, maybe somewhere in between the previous two. Then, to my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, "edgy" to you, is when there's a huge disconnect between the dark elements and light-heartedness? How do you feel about Higurashi then? |
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