JoJo no Kimyou na Bouken: Ougon no Kaze Episode 12 Discussion

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Feb 2016

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Isidoro4567 said:

Hobgoblin2099 said:

Yeah, that was pretty weird.

bro This doesn't make any sense how did the assasin knew that fugo and the others were going there?lmao

Its pretty bold of you to not consider that every Passione member wouldn't blink an eye after Polpo's death, Leading to Bruno being a Chief now. That would raise suspicions making Bruno's team a target. It would make sense if many members are spread around Italy trying to know what Bruno's team is up to, Specially if some of them are behind Trish and the Big Boss. This is not your everyday dumb Part 4 "villain of the week". We are talking about Mafia this time.

"We could make the world better, but it's easier to just shut our eyes."
~Blackwall

Dec 24, 2018 4:43 PM

#65

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PedroBV96 said:

Isidoro4567 said:

bro This doesn't make any sense how did the assasin knew that fugo and the others were going there?lmao

You can be sure that if other members of the hitman team appear in the Vineyard it will not make sense either.

Did you disconnect your brain while watching this or have you forgotten everything that has happened so far?

It would make sense if an organization with several members targets Bruno's team for several reasons, be it Polpo's death, Bruno's promotion to Chief, The Big Boss's daughter. Of course members would be spread around Italy trying to tail Bruno's Team. This is not Part 4 Dumb villains of the week.

"We could make the world better, but it's easier to just shut our eyes."
~Blackwall

Dec 24, 2018 5:16 PM

#66

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HereticHunter said:

Did you disconnect your brain while watching this or have you forgotten everything that has happened so far?

It would make sense if an organization with several members targets Bruno's team for several reasons, be it Polpo's death, Bruno's promotion to Chief, The Big Boss's daughter. Of course members would be spread around Italy trying to tail Bruno's Team. This is not Part 4 Dumb villains of the week.

Formaggio died before being able to comunicate his partners about the place Trish is hidden, so none of the others knew about it.

With that in mind, how could they know that three of them were going to Pompeya to look for something? How is that one of them appeared right there if they didn't know about it?

And man, how do you think that it will nake sense, that other members make an apperance in the Vineyard, if they didn't know about it? If you think it will make sense, then you're the one who disconnected his brain and forgot everything that has happened up until now.

PedroBV96Dec 24, 2018 5:22 PM

Dec 24, 2018 5:19 PM

#67

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Hobgoblin2099 said:

If I recall correctly, the other assassins tailing the group has more logical consistency.

Did the others come to find out in some way that Trish was hidden in the Vineyard?

Dec 24, 2018 6:06 PM

#68

UtopiaBeyond

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Feb 2016

70

I briefly read about this happening in the manga. Can't wait to see how they get out of this one!

UtopiaBeyondDec 24, 2018 6:10 PM

Dec 24, 2018 7:52 PM

#69

SixPistols

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PedroBV96 said:

HereticHunter said:

Did you disconnect your brain while watching this or have you forgotten everything that has happened so far?

It would make sense if an organization with several members targets Bruno's team for several reasons, be it Polpo's death, Bruno's promotion to Chief, The Big Boss's daughter. Of course members would be spread around Italy trying to tail Bruno's Team. This is not Part 4 Dumb villains of the week.

Formaggio died before being able to comunicate his partners about the place Trish is hidden, so none of the others knew about it.

With that in mind, how could they know that three of them were going to Pompeya to look for something? How is that one of them appeared right there if they didn't know about it?

And man, how do you think that it will nake sense, that other members make an apperance in the Vineyard, if they didn't know about it? If you think it will make sense, then you're the one who disconnected his brain and forgot everything that has happened up until now.

Formaggio found Narancia's rental car incredibly fast. One could infer the other hitmen found the van using the same methods and tailed them.

Of course, none of the other members knew she was in vineyard, but came to the same conclusion that Bruno's gang was guarding Trish.

Dec 25, 2018 1:29 AM

#70

Kajo_Senpai69

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May 2016

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Formaggio might've been the only one at the scene at the time but there's bound to be some of the other members in nearby areas so they might've heard all the explosions and went to the scene after the fight and came up of a similar hunch that restricted their search to around the area, which could explain how Illuso was suddenly tailing Fugo and company. They're professional killers who knows what they're doing after all. It's just an assumption but I'm sure that they'll explain how in the next episode anyway.

Fugo definitely reminds me of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde with him being an intellectual plagued by uncontrollable bursts of rage and Purple Haze was the perfect manifestation of his personality. Guy's had it tough with the touchy professors after all. Despite Purple Haze's virus brutally killing those crows, the Stand trying to clumsily clean himself was absolutely adorable in a twisted sort of way.

Man in the Mirror and Purple Haze was a very clever match-up because it's literally a fight that's "smoke and mirrors". The mirror popping out of nowhere while being very out of place reminds me of Mariah's Bastet when it first appeared, while the restriction of the mirror world being just like Atom Heart Father and the Hanged Man's obvious man in the mirror connection.

Leone's such a tsundere, angrily showing intense concern for Giorno being within Purple Haze's range and that's admirable. While he believes that he's eager to sacrifice himself for the mission, it'd be a lot more difficult to leave a comrade in trouble behind because it'll end up like a rewind of his past again with his buddy cop. Really curious how Fugo'll counter the mirror world~

Dec 25, 2018 4:45 AM

#71

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Jan 2016

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SixPistols said:

Formaggio found Narancia's rental car incredibly fast. One could infer the other hitmen found the van using the same methods and tailed them.

Of course, none of the other members knew she was in vineyard, but came to the same conclusion that Bruno's gang was guarding Trish.

Even if they had found the car, they would not know how to trace where it came from, because the map that Formaggio took from Narancia was burned. And even having deduced that Bucciarati's group was protecting Trish, as they do not know where they are hidden, they would not know to what other place they would be moving. That's why Iluso appearing in Pompeii feels out of nowhere and makes no sense, and if other hitmen appear in the vineyard, it will not make sense either.

Dec 25, 2018 8:22 AM

#72

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Feb 2016

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PedroBV96 said:

HereticHunter said:

Did you disconnect your brain while watching this or have you forgotten everything that has happened so far?

It would make sense if an organization with several members targets Bruno's team for several reasons, be it Polpo's death, Bruno's promotion to Chief, The Big Boss's daughter. Of course members would be spread around Italy trying to tail Bruno's Team. This is not Part 4 Dumb villains of the week.

Formaggio died before being able to comunicate his partners about the place Trish is hidden, so none of the others knew about it.

With that in mind, how could they know that three of them were going to Pompeya to look for something? How is that one of them appeared right there if they didn't know about it?

And man, how do you think that it will nake sense, that other members make an apperance in the Vineyard, if they didn't know about it? If you think it will make sense, then you're the one who disconnected his brain and forgot everything that has happened up until now.

You don't seem to understand what I mean. How do you think Polpo's death got spread around Italy so fast? And just then, Bruno became a chief, the one who was in charge of Trish said that she has been tailed by traitors. That would make Bruno's team a target. But if they don't know where his team is hidden, it would only make sense if they spread around Italy trying to tail Bruno's Team.

Those are just rumors between traitors, that's why Illuso didn't knew that much about Giorno since he's new, Illuso could also have some descriptions of the other members and since there were only 3 and one he didn't recognize he guessed Giorno must be the new guy. Also, Illuso didn't knew about their powers at all, just how they behave, that's why he only let Fugo inside the mirror.

So yeah, it makes sense if some members appear in Vineyard in order to tail Bruno's team, sometimes the places you less expect to find something are the ones where you find that something. You just have to think outside the box

"We could make the world better, but it's easier to just shut our eyes."
~Blackwall

Dec 25, 2018 9:56 AM

#73

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HereticHunter said:

You don't seem to understand what I mean. How do you think Polpo's death got spread around Italy so fast? And just then, Bruno became a chief, the one who was in charge of Trish said that she has been tailed by traitors. That would make Bruno's team a target. But if they don't know where his team is hidden, it would only make sense if they spread around Italy trying to tail Bruno's Team.

Those are just rumors between traitors, that's why Illuso didn't knew that much about Giorno since he's new, Illuso could also have some descriptions of the other members and since there were only 3 and one he didn't recognize he guessed Giorno must be the new guy. Also, Illuso didn't knew about their powers at all, just how they behave, that's why he only let Fugo inside the mirror.

So yeah, it makes sense if some members appear in Vineyard in order to tail Bruno's team, sometimes the places you less expect to find something are the ones where you find that something. You just have to think outside the box

First, Polpo was a hood, known by everyone in the gang, so it's obvious that his death would be fastly known.

Second, because Pericolo (a hood) made clear that only the boss and him knew that Trish is with Bruno and the others, the hitman team had no means to know where they were. And they are the only ones who want to take Trish to defeat the boss and take the drug routes, which discards automatically all the other members of the gang. And, since they are supposed to be a experienced team, do you think that they're going to be randomly looking for Trish around Italy? They already had the hunch that Trish would be cared by a hood.

Third, all the members of Bruno's team except Giorno had time being part of the gang, so it's obvious that they would have information about them. That's why Formaggio decided to follow Narancia and managed to find through him the location Trish was hidden. But he died before comunicating the location to his partners.

So, if other members of the hitman team managed to appear in the Vineyard, to face Bruno, Mista and Narancia, without any information about it, it will be convenient they find out that Trish was there by accident, and it will not make sense. And don't come with the lazy statement that I just have to think outside the box, when these kind of things should make sense, inside.

PedroBV96Dec 25, 2018 10:06 AM

Dec 25, 2018 12:17 PM

#74

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Feb 2016

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PedroBV96 said:

HereticHunter said:

You don't seem to understand what I mean. How do you think Polpo's death got spread around Italy so fast? And just then, Bruno became a chief, the one who was in charge of Trish said that she has been tailed by traitors. That would make Bruno's team a target. But if they don't know where his team is hidden, it would only make sense if they spread around Italy trying to tail Bruno's Team.

Those are just rumors between traitors, that's why Illuso didn't knew that much about Giorno since he's new, Illuso could also have some descriptions of the other members and since there were only 3 and one he didn't recognize he guessed Giorno must be the new guy. Also, Illuso didn't knew about their powers at all, just how they behave, that's why he only let Fugo inside the mirror.

So yeah, it makes sense if some members appear in Vineyard in order to tail Bruno's team, sometimes the places you less expect to find something are the ones where you find that something. You just have to think outside the box

First, Polpo was a hood, known by everyone in the gang, so it's obvious that his death would be fastly known.

Second, because Pericolo (a hood) made clear that only the boss and him knew that Trish is with Bruno and the others, the hitman team had no means to know where they were. And they are the only ones who want to take Trish to defeat the boss and take the drug routes, which discards automatically all the other members of the gang. And, since they are supposed to be a experienced team, do you think that they're going to be randomly looking for Trish around Italy? They already had the hunch that Trish would be cared by a hood.

Third, all the members of Bruno's team except Giorno had time being part of the gang, so it's obvious that they would have information about them. That's why Formaggio decided to follow Narancia and managed to find through him the location Trish was hidden. But he died before comunicating the location to his partners.

So, if other members of the hitman team managed to appear in the Vineyard, to face Bruno, Mista and Narancia, without any information about it, it will be convenient they find out that Trish was there by accident, and it will not make sense. And don't come with the lazy statement that I just have to think outside the box, when these kind of things should make sense, inside.

Man you're stubborn and clearly don't get it

Maybe not the entire Italy, but that doesn't means that they won't spread around in order to gather some clues. Also, Formaggio's death is not as meaningless as you think. He might have died and never confirmed Trish was with Bruno's Team but... Do you know what happens to the people that knows to much? they get killed, exactly what Narancia did to him (This is the same case as that time where Giorno and Mista had to get off the boat to rush the coast in order to deal with Zucchero's partner, but reversed). Why do you think Fugo was so pissed about Narancia's failure? Formaggio found out about Trish and he was killed for it which means that "something went wrong" with Formaggio's mission. That would ring the alarm between the traitors, making them think for sure that Bruno's team are keeping Trish.

It seems to me that you expected DP to show the Hitman Team brainstorming the death of Formaggio and coming with the conclusion that he was killed for knowing to much, which gives the conclusion that Trish may be with Bruno's Team.

"We could make the world better, but it's easier to just shut our eyes."
~Blackwall

Dec 25, 2018 12:28 PM

#75

Mirai

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Mar 2015

8317

"What would you like to order good sir?"

"One Pannacotta please.... I should name one of my characters after this"

Araki pls

Dec 25, 2018 1:27 PM

#76

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HereticHunter said:

It seems to me that you expected DP to show the Hitman Team brainstorming the death of Formaggio and coming with the conclusion that he was killed for knowing to much, which gives the conclusion that Trish may be with Bruno's Team.

You said it. If they had shown how the other members of the Hitman Team deduced that Formaggio died at the hands of Narancia, which would have given them the idea that Trish is under the protection of Bruno's team, would make all his later actions completely believable.

Dec 25, 2018 5:02 PM

#77

Ljw

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Jan 2017

143

Kinda wish DP stuck to the flashback from Purple Haze feedback- this version is alright but I don’t think it’s as good

Dec 26, 2018 12:11 PM

#78

TheAzulmagia

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402

PedroBV96 said:

Hobgoblin2099 said:

If I recall correctly, the other assassins tailing the group has more logical consistency.

Did the others come to find out in some way that Trish was hidden in the Vineyard?

The other assassins figure that the group has Trish because Formaggio went after Narancia to investigate that possibility and died in a big flaming explosion. The reason the boss tells the gang to move is because he figures the assassination team will be searching that area, which is why they're getting the key at present.

Dec 26, 2018 4:46 PM

#79

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Hobgoblin2099 said:

The other assassins figure that the group has Trish because Formaggio went after Narancia to investigate that possibility and died in a big flaming explosion. The reason the boss tells the gang to move is because he figures the assassination team will be searching that area, which is why they're getting the key at present.

You know there have been no scenes in the show until now, about the other assassins figuring out that Trish is cared by Bruno's team, neither the boss figuring out that the assassination team goes after his daughter to send the order to Bruno.

Dec 26, 2018 11:27 PM

#80

Rayl1ght

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7188

Haha Abbacchio, it's nice for you for foreshadowing the future
Ofc you all will and it's soon, not all of you though.. Fugo won't xD

Purple Haze is smokin hot, it even make creatures nearby "fall" in love xD

"Signature removed"

Dec 27, 2018 3:37 AM

#81

OberonFelsach

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Apr 2015

241

I kinda understand now why is Abacchio so annoyed with Giorno....seems like Giorno has something against listening to others. He just does whatever the fuck he wants lol

Dec 27, 2018 4:23 AM

#82

TheAzulmagia

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402

PedroBV96 said:

Hobgoblin2099 said:

The other assassins figure that the group has Trish because Formaggio went after Narancia to investigate that possibility and died in a big flaming explosion. The reason the boss tells the gang to move is because he figures the assassination team will be searching that area, which is why they're getting the key at present.

You know there have been no scenes in the show until now, about the other assassins figuring out that Trish is cared by Bruno's team, neither the boss figuring out that the assassination team goes after his daughter to send the order to Bruno.

That's what the scene about the key in the last episode was about.

Dec 27, 2018 5:38 AM

#83

Terium

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136

This is just getting better and better and better. I fucking love this part!

Dec 27, 2018 7:47 AM

#84

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Hobgoblin2099 said:

That's what the scene about the key in the last episode was about.

That scene tells us the boss reaction to figuring it out, not how he was informed. We just can assume that he somehow knew about it, without anything previously shown in the show that can confirm it. And it doesn't tell us how the assasins could figure out that Trish is cared by Bruno's team.

PedroBV96Dec 27, 2018 7:54 AM

Dec 27, 2018 9:59 AM

#85

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Dec 2018

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PedroBV96 said:

Hobgoblin2099 said:

That's what the scene about the key in the last episode was about.

That scene tells us the boss reaction to figuring it out, not how he was informed. We just can assume that he somehow knew about it, without anything previously shown in the show that can confirm it. And it doesn't tell us how the assasins could figure out that Trish is cared by Bruno's team.

Bruno's team was the only one that didn't show up to Polpo's funeral, and as previously mentioned by Sale on the fifth episode, Polpo likes Bucciarati at the point of trusting him his own fortune. So if he and his gang didn't appeared there, they must be up to something, also, they probably already knew that Polpo was the one that had to protect Trish,so after he died they just assumed that the closest person to him,Bucciarati, would take care of his unfinished task.

About how the boss was informed, he commands a mafia that basically took over Italy, and as seen on the fifth episode, the information about Polpo's death was spread pretty quickly, so if that happened, imagine what would after multiple cars being exploded on a street,they're protecting his own daughter, of course he would know about their situation and always try to keep in touch with them, besides, the message wasn't sent to Bucciarati immediately after that happened, we don't really know how much time Narancia took to go back to the vineyard, and even there, the message was sent after Narancia tell Bruno and the rest of the team about the whole situation, plus, the fact that the Hitman team communicates through the computer was established since the first time they appeared, so it makes sense that the boss would too, its a very effective way of communicating.

Dec 27, 2018 12:00 PM

#86

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buracoo said:

Bruno's team was the only one that didn't show up to Polpo's funeral, and as previously mentioned by Sale on the fifth episode, Polpo likes Bucciarati at the point of trusting him his own fortune. So if he and his gang didn't appeared there, they must be up to something, also, they probably already knew that Polpo was the one that had to protect Trish,so after he died they just assumed that the closest person to him,Bucciarati, would take care of his unfinished task.

About how the boss was informed, he commands a mafia that basically took over Italy, and as seen on the fifth episode, the information about Polpo's death was spread pretty quickly, so if that happened, imagine what would after multiple cars being exploded on a street,they're protecting his own daughter, of course he would know about their situation and always try to keep in touch with them, besides, the message wasn't sent to Bucciarati immediately after that happened, we don't really know how much time Narancia took to go back to the vineyard, and even there, the message was sent after Narancia tell Bruno and the rest of the team about the whole situation, plus, the fact that the Hitman team communicates through the computer was established since the first time they appeared, so it makes sense that the boss would too, its a very effective way of communicating.

1. The funeral was never shown, so we can't make such an affirmation. In fact, the funeral was happening during Narancia and Formaggio's fight, so we can suppose that the hitman team was absent too.

2. Polpo was a hood, known by everyone in the gang, so it's natural that his death would be fastly known. That wouldn't be the case with an incident on a street.

3. Did we see some sort of individual, object, or stand wacthing from the distance, the place where Narancia and Formaggio were fighting, so the boss could be known about it? We didn't.

4. If you noticed, Iluso asked Fugo about the place Trish is hidden, so they still don't know where she is.

Note apart, I find strange that they don't use cell phones.

Dec 27, 2018 12:56 PM

#87

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Dec 2018

20

PedroBV96 said:

buracoo said:

Bruno's team was the only one that didn't show up to Polpo's funeral, and as previously mentioned by Sale on the fifth episode, Polpo likes Bucciarati at the point of trusting him his own fortune. So if he and his gang didn't appeared there, they must be up to something, also, they probably already knew that Polpo was the one that had to protect Trish,so after he died they just assumed that the closest person to him,Bucciarati, would take care of his unfinished task.

About how the boss was informed, he commands a mafia that basically took over Italy, and as seen on the fifth episode, the information about Polpo's death was spread pretty quickly, so if that happened, imagine what would after multiple cars being exploded on a street,they're protecting his own daughter, of course he would know about their situation and always try to keep in touch with them, besides, the message wasn't sent to Bucciarati immediately after that happened, we don't really know how much time Narancia took to go back to the vineyard, and even there, the message was sent after Narancia tell Bruno and the rest of the team about the whole situation, plus, the fact that the Hitman team communicates through the computer was established since the first time they appeared, so it makes sense that the boss would too, its a very effective way of communicating.

1. The funeral was never shown, so we can't make such an affirmation. In fact, the funeral was happening during Narancia and Formaggio's fight, so we can suppose that the hitman team was absent too.

2. Polpo was a hood, known by everyone in the gang, so it's natural that his death would be fastly known. That wouldn't be the case with an incident on a street.

3. Did we see some sort of individual, object, or stand wacthing from the distance, the place where Narancia and Formaggio were fighting, so the boss could be known about it? We didn't.

4. If you noticed, Iluso asked Fugo about the place Trish is hidden, so they still don't know where she is.

Note apart, I find strange that they don't use cell phones.

1. They don't really need to be there, all it takes is talking to someone through the computer to confirm it,Formaggio was there to follow one of Bruno's gang members and make sure their assumptions were correct,probably the message that Formaggio received while he was in the Hotel where we see him at first its confirming that they were in fact absent.

2.It's not a simple incident, at least 5 cars were blown by someone that wasn't at Polpo's funeral and happens to be taking care of Trish, even if the normal gang members don't know about the details of everything it would eventually get to the boss.

3.It's not because we didn't see it that it didn't happen, the boss basically controls Italy so if something happened to the crew that is taking care of his daughter he definitely would have some way of discovering it.

4.Yeah,they don't know, that's why they're following the tracks that the gang is leaving and not going straight to the vineyard.The explosion,the rented car.

The story takes place in 2001, I don't think the cell phones back then were as useful as a computer. But yeah, they could probably use it.

Dec 27, 2018 3:17 PM

#88

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Jan 2016

211

buracoo said:

3.It's not because we didn't see it that it didn't happen, the boss basically controls Italy so if something happened to the crew that is taking care of his daughter he definitely would have some way of discovering it.

We can be sure that it happened, but because we didn't see it, is that it feels that he discovered it out of nowhere.

Note apart, this made me think the next: If the boss discovered that something happened to the crew that is taking care of his daughter, don't you think the boss could have discovered what Giorno is trying to do? Altough Bruno didn't tell anything, he could somehow know about the conversation Bruno and Giorno had after his fight, and sending someone to kill Giorno in consequence, since you already stated that the boss basically controls Italy.

PedroBV96Dec 27, 2018 3:27 PM

Dec 27, 2018 3:33 PM

#89

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Dec 2018

20

PedroBV96 said:

buracoo said:

3.It's not because we didn't see it that it didn't happen, the boss basically controls Italy so if something happened to the crew that is taking care of his daughter he definitely would have some way of discovering it.

We can be sure that it happened, but because we didn't see it, is that it feels that he discovered it out of nowhere.

I think this is a more subtle way of demonstrating how the boss has control over everything, but I get where you're coming from. Later we'll get more instances where the boss demonstrates directly his power.

Dec 27, 2018 5:00 PM

#90