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Dec 11, 2018 12:56 PM

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RetroBite said:
Lunilah said:
Hunter x Hunter (2011) was merciless in over explaining everything from obvious intentions to strengths and weaknesses in an unironic jojos style, to filling episodes up with unnecessary dialogue about literally anything to meet the episode run time.

Yeah, or like in Kaiji. I find that level of spoonfeeding kinda comical, but oh well. Sad part was, that HxH wasn't like that, up until the Chimera Ant Arc.


I totally agree! Having to sit through 5 episodes of filler with that squid guy, or that damn board game, was so boring to me. Though, Kurapika's spider arc was amazingly executed imo.
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Dec 11, 2018 1:02 PM
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How can it be that no one so far has mentioned Code Gayass R2

Never I had lost so many braincells watching an anime than with that thing
 
Dec 11, 2018 1:19 PM

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Zero no Tsukaima. I mean, really. Once the reasons behind the main character's stupid Stockholm Syndrome for the girl who kidnapped and abused him are revealed, said mc ends up staying by her side regardless.
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Dec 11, 2018 1:41 PM

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Re:Creators

all it does is pander to weebs.
https://combosmooth.itch.io/ - I make free-to-play browser games for PC and I sell pixel art animation here
 
Dec 11, 2018 3:06 PM

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I would say Btooom! and Hamatora (although I still feel strongly about those two), the most recent anime to insult my intelligence was the Seven Deadly Sins, specifically Season 2. The Deus ex Machina, Power Level use and training/tournament arcs just greatly insulted my intelligence.
 
Dec 11, 2018 3:11 PM

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Arkab said:
How can it be that no one so far has mentioned Code Gayass R2

Never I had lost so many braincells watching an anime than with that thing

Came to post this, I was convinced they were doing it on purpose when I watched it.
 
Dec 11, 2018 3:17 PM
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Highschool of the Dead - literally the cheapest kind and worst quality of fanservice used only to conceal the overall mess that this show is.

Bikini Warriors / Prison School / Keijo!!! - overall insult. Other than lowest quality possible fanservice, you won't find anything here.
 
Dec 11, 2018 3:28 PM

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NthDegree said:
"People die if they are killed."

The VN is even worse.


It's Type Moon, what did you expect? They can't write a good story to save themselves if their lives were depending on it.

The only thing that's even worse is the guy who wrote the Higurashi/Umineko trainwrecks. Some of the most pointlessly convoluted and pretentious writing that you can find out there. Apparently, he's also a huge fan of Type moon which kind of explains it.
 
Dec 11, 2018 3:33 PM

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xenovibe said:
NthDegree said:
"People die if they are killed."

The VN is even worse.


It's Type Moon, what did you expect? They can't write a good story to save themselves if their lives were depending on it.

The only thing that's even worse is the guy who wrote the Higurashi/Umineko trainwrecks. Some of the most pointlessly convoluted and pretentious writing that you can find out there. Apparently, he's also a huge fan of Type moon which kind of explains it.

Hey, I like Umineko :V

Not to say it's perfect but it has some very interesting ideas and concepts. Plus the characterization of Battler's aunts in particular is magnificent. So yeah, I really love it, actually.

But yeah, I dislike the most of Type-Moon stuff. Especially FSN.
My condolences to KyoAni #PrayForKyoani
 
Dec 11, 2018 3:36 PM

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NthDegree said:
xenovibe said:


It's Type Moon, what did you expect? They can't write a good story to save themselves if their lives were depending on it.

The only thing that's even worse is the guy who wrote the Higurashi/Umineko trainwrecks. Some of the most pointlessly convoluted and pretentious writing that you can find out there. Apparently, he's also a huge fan of Type moon which kind of explains it.

Hey, I like Umineko :V

Not to say it's perfect but it has some very interesting ideas and concepts. Plus the characterization of Battler's aunts in particular is magnificent. So yeah, I really love it, actually.

But yeah, I dislike the most of Type-Moon stuff. Especially FSN.


Most popular anime/manga out there have "interesting ideas and concepts". It's the execution part that they completely fall flat on their face the vast majority of the time.
 
Dec 11, 2018 3:40 PM

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xenovibe said:
NthDegree said:

Hey, I like Umineko :V

Not to say it's perfect but it has some very interesting ideas and concepts. Plus the characterization of Battler's aunts in particular is magnificent. So yeah, I really love it, actually.

But yeah, I dislike the most of Type-Moon stuff. Especially FSN.


Most popular anime/manga out there have "interesting ideas and concepts". It's the execution part that they completely fall flat on their face the vast majority of the time.

Totally unrelated but is that Vergil in your avatar? You have some good tastes in video games.
My condolences to KyoAni #PrayForKyoani
 
Dec 11, 2018 3:42 PM

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Saenai Heroine: mc and every word he say you lose 1 IQ point.
Eromanga-sensei: How to reduce all your argument to the word
"pe**s" and braindead co mc.

 
Dec 11, 2018 3:49 PM
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TodAboT said:
SAO.
Clearly a 14 year-old wrote this fanfic.
It sits you down to watch multiple 10 minute long (or longer) scenes with characters explaining the most basic plot, explaining the thing that was shown already, or even explaining the most basic things that only a baby wouldn't know.
"If you are low level you can only do simple spells, but if you are high level you can do more complicated spells". Actual quote from Season 3 Episode 7 (maybe I got it wrong).

-
wow you are even having a stroke about sao in here too.
"i know anything goes here...
but this!?
this is clearly not fucking okay!"
-fuyuhiko kuzuryuu
 
Dec 11, 2018 3:53 PM

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I don't remember exactly, but things like "you die when you are killed" or "You are you because you are yourself", some BS like that... or when a character realized something painfully obvious and then it start to give a 10 minutes explanation about it.
 
Dec 11, 2018 3:54 PM

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iamYuyaSakaki said:
Gamers! is insulting to true gamers. Paints gamers as a bunch of virgin dweebs interested in playing together. WE ARE NORMAL PEOPLE interested in the game WE LIKE AND WANT, NOT playing together some random game.

I gave that shit a 1/10


Dota 2 is my life dude.. i haven't been outside for longer than a year..
 
Dec 11, 2018 3:57 PM
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idontknowsarcasm said:
TodAboT said:
SAO.
Clearly a 14 year-old wrote this fanfic.
It sits you down to watch multiple 10 minute long (or longer) scenes with characters explaining the most basic plot, explaining the thing that was shown already, or even explaining the most basic things that only a baby wouldn't know.
"If you are low level you can only do simple spells, but if you are high level you can do more complicated spells". Actual quote from Season 3 Episode 7 (maybe I got it wrong).

-
wow you are even having a stroke about sao in here too.

Can you disprove any points I made or are you just going to complain about a person not liking a show, like you usually do?
 
Dec 11, 2018 4:03 PM
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TodAboT said:
idontknowsarcasm said:

-
wow you are even having a stroke about sao in here too.

Can you disprove any points I made or are you just going to complain about a person not liking a show, like you usually do?

-
for starters, it is not a fanfic, a fanfic, as the name says it's fiction about a existent show wich it's written by a fan.
about your other point it's okay, i understand what you mean, you are right there, i just said the thing about the stroke becuase of how much you like hating on sao in any place.
"i know anything goes here...
but this!?
this is clearly not fucking okay!"
-fuyuhiko kuzuryuu
 
Dec 11, 2018 5:01 PM
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idontknowsarcasm said:
TodAboT said:

Can you disprove any points I made or are you just going to complain about a person not liking a show, like you usually do?

-
for starters, it is not a fanfic, a fanfic, as the name says it's fiction about a existent show wich it's written by a fan.
about your other point it's okay, i understand what you mean, you are right there, i just said the thing about the stroke becuase of how much you like hating on sao in any place.

The fanfic part was a joke, though I understand that I didn't make it clear.
And hating on SAO is fun. Like hating on Twilight.
 
Dec 11, 2018 6:17 PM

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R.O.D the TV especially comparing to brilliant R.O.D OVA.
First part of show was ok, but after introducing tv-version of Yomiko Readman it went to crap with the speed of light. All characters suddenly become stupid and start making such irrelevant decisions that I was not sure anymore what exactly am I watching - still R.O.D or maybe some kind of absurd comedy.
 
Dec 11, 2018 6:39 PM
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DesolatePsyche said:
Lunilah said:
Hunter x Hunter (2011) was merciless in over explaining everything from obvious intentions to strengths and weaknesses in an unironic jojos style, to filling episodes up with unnecessary dialogue about literally anything to meet the episode run time.


I liked it. Gave more powerful and epic feeling.



Aside that.. thread answer in general is "no". I don't have such ego to consider having some sort of intelligence "level" that is possible to offend from. (let alone from fiction). That just sounds dumb.
Confused on whether or not i should conflate those two lines and respond to it as one. I'll assume they're different.

I think ego has everything to do with it and that there isn't anybody without ego, but that isn't to say being insulted intellectually by anime tropes talking down to you means you're egotistical, very different. You could equate it with someone telling you a joke, you laughing, and them explaining the joke to you like you didn't catch it despite it being so obvious that you did, but then multiply that by how many times the trope is in anime or a specific one. It may not be bothering the first time, but it will get to you and it won't sound dumb then.



Life happens wherever you are,
whether you make it or not.
 
Dec 11, 2018 6:50 PM

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Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha Vivid really is an insult to Nanoha, to the fans, to my intelligence. Simulated battles? Nanoha as a housewife? The rest of the cast is non existent. What the actual F. I didn't give a 5 because of some random appearances of Teana.

MMemiMMei said:
Saenai Heroine: mc and every word he say you lose 1 IQ point.

Oh, finally somebody who actually thinks that Saekano is shit. That show is literally making me lose a lot of brain cells.
"What a Player, what a Champion here at Wimbledon, the first man to win 8 Championships."
Andrew Castle on Roger Federer winning his 19th Grand Slam title.
 
Dec 11, 2018 6:57 PM

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no game no life. Tried to made the show sound smart instead made viewers confused af.
K-On! is love, K-On!! is life.

 
Dec 11, 2018 7:05 PM

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Any comedy anime where after the punchline pops into existence it has to explain every detail about it instead of letting the joke be a joke
 
Dec 11, 2018 8:03 PM

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SAO

And it’s not even close.

Everything about SAO is a huge middle finger to rationality and comprehensive story telling.

And I’m not memeing or whatever, this anime is intentionally made to being an anime version of a very stupid, low-brow action movie where logic is thrown out the window and replaced by explosions and high speed car chases.

SAO is the antithesis of what a good anime could be.
 
Dec 11, 2018 9:09 PM

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Probably an old Go Nagai title called Kama Sutra-just thinking about it makes me cringe!
Life Is Short But Intense.
 
Dec 11, 2018 9:11 PM

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Lincompoop said:
no game no life. Tried to made the show sound smart instead made viewers confused af.

No, it wasn't confusing--it was just pretending to be about choice and determinism and all that kinda thing when it was just a gross harem with the most eye-bleedingly garish art style imaginable.

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superior reviews! Most Recent: Mirai of the Future!

I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom:

"Isekai peaked in the 90s. The genre has sucked ever since.
There is nothing wrong with liking shounen action anime.
There is no 'Golden Age.' There is always top-shelf anime.
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Dec 11, 2018 9:28 PM

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The movie Mind Game is insulting, I can't watch those stupid character desings and ridiculous animation, it's like watching a WC and calling it art.
"Even if there's a wide world and stories
beyond the main focus, I don't think
it's necessary to end with the protagonist having
been involved in everything." - Yagi Norihiro
 
Dec 11, 2018 9:37 PM

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i forgot to write this in my first post, but aku no hana's existence is also pretty insulting
 
Dec 11, 2018 9:38 PM
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Every anime/manga with a tsundere female lead. Like is this some Japanese fetish to be abuse constantly. The story's are interesting but the abuse just have me cringing.

Ohh and the entire monogatari and fate(type moon specifically) series my brain still trying to process it.
 
Dec 11, 2018 9:52 PM

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RetroBite said:
flannan said:

Indeed. Makes one wonder how these people survived school.

I find anime where authors throw around bogus science like in Geneshaft to be a lot more insulting.


Personally I don't mind explanations cause they are needed. But maybe people mean this ^ here?

The problem is, there is nothing wrong with the picture there. That is exactly the way somebody should point out a building in an audio-visual medium.
Sure, under most circumstances, I would expect people to see the building at greater distance, but I accept that lighting levels are depicted higher than they "actually" are for viewer convenience. That is, it's dark there, and the building is moderately hard to notice in the darkness.

And that's why those people complaining about exposition are annoying.

zrdb said:
Probably an old Go Nagai title called Kama Sutra-just thinking about it makes me cringe!

Why do you even expect a hentai to be intelligent? That said, it was funny. Especially the ruins built with the sole intention of making people have sex.

Piromysl said:
Highschool of the Dead - literally the cheapest kind and worst quality of fanservice used only to conceal the overall mess that this show is.

I'm not sure what do you mean by "mess", but I think HotD is exactly the way zombie-apocalypse movies are supposed to be, except with fanservice (and occasional fan disservice).

Piromysl said:
Bikini Warriors - overall insult. Other than lowest quality possible fanservice, you won't find anything here.

As a gamer (and a fan of RPGs), I strongly disagree. The show is actually full of gaming-related jokes, which are pretty funny.

TodAboT said:
idontknowsarcasm said:

-
wow you are even having a stroke about sao in here too.

Can you disprove any points I made or are you just going to complain about a person not liking a show, like you usually do?

It's useless to argue with dumb SAO haters like you. I know, because I argued a lot.
"only a baby wouldn't know"? What? Reality doesn't work like that. In reality, even a beginning cook can attempt making a complicated dish like a cake. It's more likely to fail in some way, but the cook can attempt it. And most skill-based RPG systems don't work like that either.

--ALEX-- said:
SAO

And it’s not even close.

Everything about SAO is a huge middle finger to rationality and comprehensive story telling.

And I’m not memeing or whatever, this anime is intentionally made to being an anime version of a very stupid, low-brow action movie where logic is thrown out the window and replaced by explosions and high speed car chases.

SAO is the antithesis of what a good anime could be.

Why do you even think anime owes you to be intellectual? If you find yourself unable to make sense of some technical moment of SAO - just read the goddamn book. All of it makes sense.

Pixxonyx said:
Every anime/manga with a tsundere female lead. Like is this some Japanese fetish to be abuse constantly. The story's are interesting but the abuse just have me cringing.

Actually, it's because emotionally unstable characters are moe.
 
Dec 11, 2018 10:03 PM

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@flannan

Two things I want to say.

#1 I’m not saying anime owes me anything...I’m answering the thread’s question.

“Which anime insulted your intelligence?” For me, the best answer is SAO....and that’s not to say I can’t enjoy a dumb anime, because I can, the problem is that SAO is NOT supposed to be a dumb anime, but it is.

#2 If there’s something I don’t like, it’s people who say “go read the book/manga/LN/ or whatever”...

No. That’s not the way it works...when you criticize something like anime, you criticize JUST THAT, I shouldn’t have to read any source material to understand what is going on...and if I DO...then the anime failed miserably.

And I think it’s telling that people feel the need to say “oh you’d understand SAO better if you read the LN”....you’re just proving my point that the anime was very stupid.
 
Dec 11, 2018 10:20 PM
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--ALEX-- said:
@flannan

Two things I want to say.

#1 I’m not saying anime owes me anything...I’m answering the thread’s question.

“Which anime insulted your intelligence?” For me, the best answer is SAO....and that’s not to say I can’t enjoy a dumb anime, because I can, the problem is that SAO is NOT supposed to be a dumb anime, but it is.

#2 If there’s something I don’t like, it’s people who say “go read the book/manga/LN/ or whatever”...

No. That’s not the way it works...when you criticize something like anime, you criticize JUST THAT, I shouldn’t have to read any source material to understand what is going on...and if I DO...then the anime failed miserably.

And I think it’s telling that people feel the need to say “oh you’d understand SAO better if you read the LN”....you’re just proving my point that the anime was very stupid.

Well ma dude, I did read the SAO light novel, it ain't much better as far as content goes, wow. Pacing was much better though, seeing how they decided to combine the first two volumes into one arc in the anime. Here is how it works; Reki wrote the first volume when he was 14 and was just getting into gaming, back in the early 00's. He wrote the second one years later, which consisted of Kirito's random girl encounters. The first volume was the love story of Kirito and Asuna, and nobody else. So ... he kinda screwed up when he made a harem out of it in the second volume, and it all went downhill from there, cause SAO was supposed to be a one volume story.
 
Dec 12, 2018 2:30 AM

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I don't think i've ever watched an anime that insulted my intelligence, but just hearing about the different plot holes and contrivances in SAO is astounding.
 
Dec 12, 2018 2:35 AM
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Lunilah said:
Hunter x Hunter (2011) was merciless in over explaining everything from obvious intentions to strengths and weaknesses in an unironic jojos style, to filling episodes up with unnecessary dialogue about literally anything to meet the episode run time.

Square up my dude. Why u talking bad about my baby?
 
Dec 12, 2018 2:36 AM
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fancyjasper said:
I don't think i've ever watched an anime that insulted my intelligence, but just hearing about the different plot holes and contrivances in SAO is astounding.

Oh yeah it's bad. The popularity of it doesn't make a lot of sense
 
Dec 12, 2018 2:39 AM

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dunno about intelligence but shokugeki no souma hurt my pride



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Dec 12, 2018 3:26 AM
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Deeboy said:
Lunilah said:
Hunter x Hunter (2011) was merciless in over explaining everything from obvious intentions to strengths and weaknesses in an unironic jojos style, to filling episodes up with unnecessary dialogue about literally anything to meet the episode run time.

Square up my dude. Why u talking bad about my baby?
Shoot your shot i already squared up and shot mine, it's free smoke since this thread started



Life happens wherever you are,
whether you make it or not.
 
Dec 12, 2018 3:30 AM
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The answer of this thread is The Monogatari Series.
 
Dec 12, 2018 4:37 AM

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Konpurekkusu said:
RetroBite said:

Yeah, or like in Kaiji. I find that level of spoonfeeding kinda comical, but oh well. Sad part was, that HxH wasn't like that, up until the Chimera Ant Arc.


I totally agree! Having to sit through 5 episodes of filler with that squid guy, or that damn board game, was so boring to me. Though, Kurapika's spider arc was amazingly executed imo.

That isn‘t filler. If the board game is boring or not doesn‘t matter in this chat.
 
Dec 12, 2018 4:45 AM

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Ousama Game, just watch it and u will understand why...
 
Dec 12, 2018 5:17 AM
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I'm going to twist the story here and say Phi Brain.

This had the potential to be an excellent anime but one comment on its first episode worried me about it, and sadly I found it to be true and dropped the anime on the second episode.

It's supposed to be a show about complicated puzzles. But to use an analogy, it ended up like a 10,000 x 10,000 Rubik's cube being solved by an A.I. supercomputer. The point is that the anime didn't insult your intelligence by over-explaining something, it insulted it by not even bothering to explain it.

Disappointing.
 
Dec 12, 2018 12:03 PM

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I won't call it insulting my intelligence but recently 'Bunny girl senpai' made me scratched my head a couple of times, and push me into research mode on google just to validate again what I know about science and stuff.



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Dec 12, 2018 12:12 PM

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ChemicalBro said:
Konpurekkusu said:


I totally agree! Having to sit through 5 episodes of filler with that squid guy, or that damn board game, was so boring to me. Though, Kurapika's spider arc was amazingly executed imo.

That isn‘t filler. If the board game is boring or not doesn‘t matter in this chat.

My point is that having 5 episodes of that is clearly cause of overexplaining. English isn’t my first language, so I’m sorry if there were any misunderstandings.
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Dec 12, 2018 2:43 PM

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Naruto, I think they actually believe that we have the memory of a goldfish.
At times they freaking flash backed to stuff that happened 10 minutes earlier
 
Dec 12, 2018 3:21 PM

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Catalano said:
The movie Mind Game is insulting, I can't watch those stupid character desings and ridiculous animation, it's like watching a WC and calling it art.


The message of that movie wasn't anything new/original, a very simple message, but I loved how they presented it.

Honestly speaking, I must say Gintama is the main culprit.

I've seen anime/manga that were just bad all around, like Mars of Destruction.
Works that would throw obvious baits of promising answers to questions they've never bothered answering (Naruto).
Others have promised depth (Lain) or content (Gantz) that they fell short on, leaving many holes or not even attempting to fill anything in.
Some even try to simply copy concepts or complete designs (Big Order) and just throw around twists just for the sake of it.

Most often it is due to constraints (like time or the author's mental capacity), that works just can't amount to much or fall flat in an area. But there are works that actively try to take advantage of the fact that some people are just easily amused and lead astray.

Gintama is really the pinnacle of all of this. People are complaining all the time about pretentious works, but I've never seen Gintama being called out for it despite being the main offender.
If I had to compare it with anything, it is probably most comparable to the series Big Bang Theory.
Big Bang Theory is a show that caters to people who think they are nerds, but aren't. The majority of jokes in the show center on how one of the characters is always completely out of touch with reality with how nerdish his mind is supposedly working, which creates these moments of opportunity for the audience to self-reaffirm how nerdish they are by laughing at these scenes.

Gintama works in a very similar way from what I've noticed. People call it a parody, because it constantly makes references to other manga. Thing is, it's not making fun of the other manga, it's not ridiculing them or bringing them up in a funny scene. It just references them.
And so people use Gintama to display how much anime/manga they supposedly know and how Gintama is so funny if you know those anime.
I could identify quite a couple of manga they were referencing in Gintama, yet none of that added to the jokes to make them funnier, it just made you wonder how retarded the writer must be.
I've watched through entire gintama episodes, where I failed to identify a scene that was even supposed to be a joke. Maybe those were the "serious episodes" some ppl mention, but they seemed very light-hearted for that.
It's either feces humor that does pop up from time to time, slapstick or other kinds of badly executed jokes.
If the setting was at least not so awful, I could at least force myself to read through the manga on the side, but as it is, it's just unbearable.
 
Dec 12, 2018 4:23 PM

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Flevalt said:
Gintama works in a very similar way from what I've noticed. People call it a parody, because it constantly makes references to other manga. Thing is, it's not making fun of the other manga, it's not ridiculing them or bringing them up in a funny scene. It just references them.

No, that's not it. At all. The series never goes with these scenes for namedropping alone.

If anything, what one should get from Gintama and its parodies is that they are not ill-intended against the stuff they reference. The style of comedy of this show is self-deprecation, not making fun of others. They will make Gintoki become Luffy just to illustrate the joke that unlike Luffy, Gintoki is lazy and unmotivated and unfit for a MC of a Shonen Jump series.
Modified by jal90, Dec 12, 2018 4:30 PM
 
Dec 12, 2018 5:20 PM

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jal90 said:
The style of comedy of this show is self-deprecation, not making fun of others. They will make Gintoki become Luffy just to illustrate the joke that unlike Luffy, Gintoki is lazy and unmotivated and unfit for a MC of a Shonen Jump series.


That's another thing I find suspicious. All of it leads back to the weekly shonen jump.
I've been reading manga for over 20 years, shonen like Dragonball or the big three being one of the main content I read when I got into manga.

What you are telling me now is basically that in order to get the jokes, it's about knowing weekly shonen jump. A Japanese magazine.
Something I'm sure a majority of people that like Gintama have never actively read, let alone as hard copy.

Odd, isn't it?
It makes you wonder how far into fawning over Japan one has to be, to be compatible for that anime.

I appreciate your attempt at an explanation, but I get the feeling that that is not quite it.
Comedy, if it gets very popular as Gintama is now, generally has several layers to it. This means that there are jokes in it directed at people that have parts of the background knowledge and then there are jokes directed at people that understand all of the background knowledge. This way a wide spectrum of people can find something to laugh about. And I'm sure Gintama is no exception.

If what you describe is the latter and all of that simplistic slapstick etc. is the former, then I still don't get the popularity.

A contrast can make for a funny scene, I'll admit to that anytime.
But in that case it is literally making a statement about shonen jump then. So more than self-critique, it would be an indirect bashing of shonen jump and how a story like Gintama shouldn't be in there if strictly following tradition.

That does make it look more redeemable, but at the same time it underlines what I said about it. If it only makes sense in the context of shonen jump, it's a show for weebs to show how weeb they are.
Which is, and I speak here as a fan of many manga that appeared in shonen jump (just no interest in the magazine as an anthology), quite weak.

Or maybe I'm taking the wrong message from your statement and it's really less about any specific extern medium and more about making fun of itself more than anything. But yeah, roughly 10 episodes with only 1 scene that I found funny was a clear sign to stay away.
 
Dec 12, 2018 6:21 PM

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Flevalt said:
jal90 said:
The style of comedy of this show is self-deprecation, not making fun of others. They will make Gintoki become Luffy just to illustrate the joke that unlike Luffy, Gintoki is lazy and unmotivated and unfit for a MC of a Shonen Jump series.


That's another thing I find suspicious. All of it leads back to the weekly shonen jump.
I've been reading manga for over 20 years, shonen like Dragonball or the big three being one of the main content I read when I got into manga.

What you are telling me now is basically that in order to get the jokes, it's about knowing weekly shonen jump. A Japanese magazine.
Something I'm sure a majority of people that like Gintama have never actively read, let alone as hard copy.

Odd, isn't it?
It makes you wonder how far into fawning over Japan one has to be, to be compatible for that anime.

Well... you know, it's the Shonen Jump. Everybody and their mother reads the SJ in Japan. So the series is not really obscure at all for its intended audience, and I'd say it's not either for a minimally knowledgeable anime fan since most of its parodies are to successful shonen franchises. I didn't get the JoJo references of an arc because I hadn't watched it at the time, but you know... it's JoJo. Most people who get invested in this show will get it pretty easily.

Flevalt said:
I appreciate your attempt at an explanation, but I get the feeling that that is not quite it.
Comedy, if it gets very popular as Gintama is now, generally has several layers to it. This means that there are jokes in it directed at people that have parts of the background knowledge and then there are jokes directed at people that understand all of the background knowledge. This way a wide spectrum of people can find something to laugh about. And I'm sure Gintama is no exception.

If what you describe is the latter and all of that simplistic slapstick etc. is the former, then I still don't get the popularity.

A contrast can make for a funny scene, I'll admit to that anytime.
But in that case it is literally making a statement about shonen jump then. So more than self-critique, it would be an indirect bashing of shonen jump and how a story like Gintama shouldn't be in there if strictly following tradition.

That does make it look more redeemable, but at the same time it underlines what I said about it. If it only makes sense in the context of shonen jump, it's a show for weebs to show how weeb they are.
Which is, and I speak here as a fan of many manga that appeared in shonen jump (just no interest in the magazine as an anthology), quite weak.

Or maybe I'm taking the wrong message from your statement and it's really less about any specific extern medium and more about making fun of itself more than anything. But yeah, roughly 10 episodes with only 1 scene that I found funny was a clear sign to stay away.

Of course it's not about a single specific extern medium, but it's about franchises that are quite recognizable most of the time. And there are many different approaches. A few other examples:

1. There is an episode where the MCs claim that Gintama has been cancelled and show various alternative conclusions for the series. One of them is a blatant ripoff of the original Evangelion ending. The joke having various layers then like: a) the conclusion of the show becoming a blatant ripoff of another show, b) the original NGE ending was quite infamous and didn't quite convince people at the time so copying it was absurd in the first place, c) the entire narrative hook of the sequence is Shinpachi emulating Shinji by reflecting on how the show just stopped caring about his original arc and having to find a new purpose for his character. There's also several other little jokes in the scene and the visual pun on seiyuu (Madao's VA is the same as Gendo Ikari).
2. In another episode the author of the manga/anime gets killed and the arstyle becomes inconsistent, so much that another author takes the lead and turns it into a Hokuto no Ken ripoff show, with obvious inconsistencies both in physical aspect, personalities for the characters and story. The joke is more on the fact it just doesn't fit the tone of Gintama than in the parody itself.
3. Another example is Kagura suddenly having a tail like Goku from Dragon Ball, which is discovered by another character who is spying through a mirror, which is a clash from her usual aspect and being brought like more than 200 episodes into the show it pokes fun with the idea that we don't really know shit about the character and only when she feels in a safe space she reveals this secret; and then she removes her tail in a quite gory sequence. At the end of the joke we realize that she was just trolling.

In all these examples the reference gives context to the joke, but it doesn't dictate it. The joke is about the statu quo in Gintama, its own narrative and its own flaws or its relationship with the audience. There are, of course, many kinds of parodies in the show. Some are more malicious like the Dragon Ball parody with Hijikata that basically mocks the narrative of that series, but for the most part, the jokes are still about Gintama in contrast to and as a result of. That's what I mean with self-deprecation. And yes, the lack of motivation of Gintoki to be a MC of a SJ manga is a running gag, and so is Kagura's unfitting personality for a SJ heroine. But it's not the only approach of the show, there's plenty from production issues to the lack of an ongoing narrative in the show, from censorship and copyright jokes to the popularity of the characters (there's an entire arc about the characters fighting against each other over a popularity poll in the manga).

Basically the comedy in Gintama, aside from noisy, grotesque and immature, which I won't deny and is part of its charm to me, is very meta and self-aware. To say that it uses parody for the mere shallow reference check is one of the most unfair things one can ever say about this series no matter how much one dislikes it.

And of course the self-deprecation jokes are just pretending and the show is not actually a production disaster without narrative direction and a lazy mangaka. But that's how it plays. You can certainly hold this interpretation that they are actually making fun of their references, but if you know how the comedy of this show usually works, it becomes quite a stretch and has to assume an intent that is never stated or even hinted by the series.
 
Dec 12, 2018 6:31 PM
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Zelkiiro said:
Lincompoop said:
no game no life. Tried to made the show sound smart instead made viewers confused af.

No, it wasn't confusing--it was just pretending to be about choice and determinism and all that kinda thing when it was just a gross harem with the most eye-bleedingly garish art style imaginable.

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you two are wrong, most of the viewers disagree with you,aswell as me.
the art style it's one of the most beatiful you may see and it's also not a harem, like, 3 to 2 girls are in actual love with sora, and i don't consider just 3 a harem.
and the show was explained good, it was not confusing.
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also, i read the LN so the harem thing is most reforced.
"i know anything goes here...
but this!?
this is clearly not fucking okay!"
-fuyuhiko kuzuryuu
 
Dec 12, 2018 6:53 PM

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Goblin Slayer, but only the first half of episode 1. The other parts of the story up to EP5 (where its currently on-hold for me) had their own issues, but none that I'd view as "insulting my intelligence".


What I didn't like about that first half of episode 1 was how over-the-top the mistakes of the rookie adventurers were shown, like "Foreshadowing here! Foreshadowing there! Foreshadowing everywhere!"

It was so much that it fell out of the acceptable range of my suspension of disbelief. This actually got so on my nerves that I really didn't give a single damn about the infamous "rape scene" because the level of writing on that part before that was just so damn horrible. The episode saved itself somewhat once Goblin Slayer finally appeard, but it only made the overall result an "OK", escpacially since I wasn't too impressed by the OST for some reason. Usually I actually quite enjoy that kind of BGM, but something just felt off about it in this case.

For me EPs 1-5 are a solid 7/10 as a whole.
 
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