Is isekai anime good in general

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Nov 2018

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thepath said:
Isekai is not overpopulated genre. There much more slice of life and sport anime than Isekai. Unlike Isekai, most slice of life anime are boring, while most isekai anime are entertaining.

95% of modern isekai that I've seen are good. Even that smartphone anime that aired sometime ago was entertaining to watch.

I see you like isekai, but i don't think that the genre is that good simply because there is not genre that is that good, i think that isekai are entertaining but that doesn't mean they're good. Also yes is an overpopulated genre.

Nov 29, 2018 5:44 AM

#53

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Nov 2018

1119

Manaban said:
Isekai isn't even the most represented genre right now, let alone an overpopulated one. Just like magic schools before it, people usually pick out one a season (if there even is one), and whenever there is one, these same people will suddenly just go like OH LOOK ANOTHER ISKEAI THIS SEASON JUST LIKE THERE WAS ONE TWO SEASONS AGO THESE THINGS ARE EVERYWHERE AMIRITE. There are 40 - 60 anime per season. One type of show drawing an audience consistently every season - or what feels more like every other season at most in this case, frankly - is not overpopulation. One per season is not overpopulation.

We did the math in another thread on this exact topic, taking a list that listed out every Isekai released from 2012 onwards, and cross-checking it with the amount of anime released between now and then, and it was a pretty fuckin' pitiful amount compared to the entire breadth of anime being released ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ And considering that you can see pretty much every isekai that's been released this decade get named off in these discussions rather than just that being the surface ones people pay specific attention to and there being a huge number of ones that nobody pays attention to beneath the same ones that always get named, it's never felt like anything more than a fabricated criticism or issue being targeted at the industry to me, rooted in overstating the presence of these things to the point of dishonesty.

-----------

Anyway, it can be. There are good ones, there are bad ones, there are in-between ones. This is applicable to any genre, and Isekai is no exception on that front. Being an Isekai in of itself is only an actual problem with a given series whenever the viewer in question just doesn't like Isekai as a matter preference, and as a fundamental concept or proponent to something, it doesn't actually speak of any amount of quality that can be found within, going towards any direction. Haphazardly grouping works that have some shared fundamentals together to discuss them as a uniform entity without taking into consideration how vastly they can differ when extending from said basis seems like it's just outright neglectful to me, and I'd rather focus on things one at a time to build a holistic viewpoint of where a genre is at, rather than taking a genre being laid out before me and ascertaining the quality of said genre just because it exists. It's why comparisons between Overlord and Death March, Smartphone and Log Horizon, KonoSuba and Re:Zero, so on and so forth are going to be warranted, because they're all fucking isekai that extend in pretty stark contrast with each other in spite of their similarities.

Which speaking of Konosuba, Log Horizon, Overlord and Re:Zero You can't just exclude the "good" ones on some weak justification like I've seen people attempt to do, and group the "bad" ones as Isekai and then use that as a means to paint it as bad genre. I do feel like there's often a Texas Sharpshooter at play here with these types of shows and the general approach to trying to treat it as a bad genre tbh, and they're often taking the ones that they do like how it builds on the base and paint it as exceptional whereas taking any other argument for how a different show distinguishes itself from how it grows outwardly from said base and then just dismiss the possibility that there are other Isekai that extend outwards in a completely different direction from this abstract interpretation of "the standard one" that's reflected by how vague and surface-level the tropes associated with it are, which can often be as superficial as just citing that "it's an isekai."

Foundations don't even necessarily need to be different, and how a work extends from said foundation is generally going to be more important than the foundation that's being built on. Isekai does indeed exemplify that, and if the primary concern isn't going to be assessing it from point A to point B and everything in-between, and is just citing that it's an Isekai LN adaptation or something, then I'm sorry, but I don't respect your opinion outside of the matter of it just boiling down to genre preference. Like, at all.

I listed those as examples of good isekai anime, i'm not by any means excluding them from the isekai genre as there are a lot of better isekai than those i listed, also i only made a question. you take it or leave it. I didn't asked if it's an overpopulated genre(which it is) i only asked if as a genre is it good overall not if there are good series, bad series and in-between, my point was that if the average isekai is at least watchable and not an atrocity. Also you can't compare one genre to the rest of anime, it doesn't work that way. It is like saying that one piece isn't long because against the rest shonen is a tiny part.
Also you probably are right it's not overpopulated but i didn't find a better word at the time so i used that, but you can't deny that every season airs at least 3-5 isekai and in the year there are only 3-4 that can be somewhat noteworthy.

Have a nice day.

Nov 29, 2018 5:46 AM

#54

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Nov 2018

1119

IcecreamDrew said:
everything is good if done right.

also wtf character limit. fuck char limit

Nothing is bad if done right.

That character count is something.

Nov 29, 2018 6:11 AM

#55

Arch-Degenerate

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Sep 2015

7676

LiedElfen said:
I listed those as examples of good isekai anime, i'm not by any means excluding them from the isekai genre as there are a lot of better isekai than those i listed, also i only made a question. you take it or leave it. I didn't asked if it's an overpopulated genre(which it is) i only asked if as a genre is it good overall not if there are good series, bad series and in-between, my point was that if the average isekai is at least watchable and not an atrocity. Also you can't compare one genre to the rest of anime, it doesn't work that way. It is like saying that one piece isn't long because against the rest shonen is a tiny part.
Also you probably are right it's not overpopulated but i didn't find a better word at the time so i used that, but you can't deny that every season airs at least 3-5 isekai and in the year there are only 3-4 that can be somewhat noteworthy.

Have a nice day.

Firstly, I can deny that every season airs 3 - 5 isekai, because even the most isekai-filled seasons don't tend to have that many. Like, I can not only deny that, but I'd even go as far as to assert it as an objectively false statement. Here. Look. This is the basis on which I assert that as an objectively false statement.

4 seasons in 2012, 4 in 2013, 4 in 2014, 4 in 2015, 4 in 2016, 4 in 2017, and 3 seasons into 2018 comprise the 1155 total anime released number featured in that post, which is the smaller one that takes the 37 anime released for future seasons at the time out of the equation, none of which were Isekai. 32 Isekai in 27 seasons barely averages out to more than one per season on average since 2012. Out of 40 - 60 anime released per season, I would absolutely not call one per season to be an overpopulation and would consider it hyperbole for one to do so.

Therefore, I reject the notion that it's overpopulated or even that prominent. The prominency is something I very much consider to be on community reaction and discussion, rather than the amount of isekai being produced on a seasonal basis. It's as noticeable as the community makes it, basically, even though numerically it's a very, very small percentage of anime being released.

I didn't asked if it's an overpopulated genre(which it is)

Also you probably are right it's not overpopulated but i didn't find a better word at the time so i used that

I can't make heads or tails of you here.

Are you saying it's overpopulated or was it just that you had issues finding a better word?

Anyway, I don't really care if you were wanting me to focus on that or not, because I saw the sentiment be asserted as part of the thread and I disagree with the sentiment pretty strongly and feel that it's pretty much misinformation at worst or just a drastic overstatement at best.

I also did talk about the type of thing that you wanted the thread to be about, just not in the way it seems you really wanted me to because I think the way you want me to do so would end up being incredibly reductive and negligent and I don't want to cross that threshold. I even isolated it from the part where I expressed just how much I disagree with the concept of it being overpopulated.

I just don't think something like Log Horizon and something like Death March are really all that comparable past characters being isekai'd into a videogame and that it's negligent to whittle both of them down to just this element for comparison's sake whenever one is something much more geared towards concepts like building a society through economic and political means in order to adapt to the new setting, whereas the other features pretty much nothing of that sort and is primarily using the adventure as a vessel for character interactions and fluffy, Slice of Life stuff with a bit of action to it. One has dramatic tension and a degree of gusto towards how it handles its central theme, the other seeks to be pretty upbeat and at ease with the way it progresses and is a very relaxed series overall. The way they build on that is so different that they possesses two completely different forms of appeal and will attract two different audiences, and at most I'd be doing a comparison which would amount to assessing the qualities of each show individually and then slamming the quality of the two together after the fact, as opposed to a direct comparison between the two, because they don't have enough crossover in their holistic identities at all to be able to compare said elements in the first place. I could say Log Horizon did its political and economic intrigue elements better than Death March did its SoL elements, or vice versa, but what's that accomplishing other than forcing a comparison based on a thin thread?

This is one of the issues I believe many isekai face that makes holding it and assessing it as a cohesive entity considerably more difficult than something like the ecchi comedy. Death March and Smartphone can have much more parallels in how they handle themselves so comparisons can be easier to make - they both tend to operate within a series that has the same approach to how it progresses, focuses on similar elements, possesses the same main tone, et cetera. They're not so far removed from each other that I'd have to neglect everything about them to reduce them to a single aspect of them to attempt to do a comparison on the holistic quality of both shows.

But how am I supposed to compare Death March and Log Horizon without just making them both nothing more than their most base component, neglecting everything else about them, just so I can assert whether I prefer stuff that's more lax and slice of life-y in how it handles the setting or something that's more geared towards political and economic intrigue being the basis of an overarching narrative? It's like taking a straight up drama and a straight up comedy and asking which is the better school anime, because, y'know, they both take place in schools and that's really the only important thing here.

It seems like the only fundamental they share is that they're both isekai series involving videogame settings, and the way they diverge from there takes them in two almost completely opposite directions to the point where, no, the only way I see a comparison being warranted is when we reduce them to just being those things and completely neglect the apples to oranges nature of literally everything else they build on the basic premise with. And, yes, I do feel like that happens with isekai a lot.

Also you can't compare one genre to the rest of anime, it doesn't work that way. It is like saying that one piece isn't long because against the rest shonen is a tiny part.

Where did I even do that anywhere in this post?

Where does the One Piece example possess any relevancy to the point I was making, considering the only thing I talked about was Isekai and holding it relative to one another and the issues with making direct comparisons with some of these shows, as well as some of the issues I feel are prevalent within the community consensus when it comes to approaching the genre itself?

Have a nice day.

At least your attempt at a mic drop was as flimsy as your retort, if nothing else.

ManabanNov 29, 2018 6:33 AM

Nov 29, 2018 6:20 AM

#56

DaCraziGuy

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Aug 2018

2136

LiedElfen said:

DaCraziGuy said:

Re creators is not an Isekai because all happens in the normal world. Isekai means another world.

Btw, I think that Re creators was average at best. The animation and music saved it IMO.

I think Re:creators is an isekai, the protagonist came from another world to this world,so in her case this is another world.

The MC by far is the boring dude, the redhead had almost no screentime in the second half. The librarian had more relevance than her (storywise, in screentime and amount of dialogs).

And like I said, the show is totally different to an isekai because a couple of things but mainly: the story is in a world that we all know so we have no exploration nor lack of knowledge about anything, all is familiar to us. Just that fact alone changes everything. With your logic Fairy tail can be called isekai because Lucy summon beings from other dimension to their world.

Nov 29, 2018 7:30 AM

#57

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Nov 2018

1119

Manaban said:

LiedElfen said:
I listed those as examples of good isekai anime, i'm not by any means excluding them from the isekai genre as there are a lot of better isekai than those i listed, also i only made a question. you take it or leave it. I didn't asked if it's an overpopulated genre(which it is) i only asked if as a genre is it good overall not if there are good series, bad series and in-between, my point was that if the average isekai is at least watchable and not an atrocity. Also you can't compare one genre to the rest of anime, it doesn't work that way. It is like saying that one piece isn't long because against the rest shonen is a tiny part.
Also you probably are right it's not overpopulated but i didn't find a better word at the time so i used that, but you can't deny that every season airs at least 3-5 isekai and in the year there are only 3-4 that can be somewhat noteworthy.

Have a nice day.

Firstly, I can deny that every season airs 3 - 5 isekai, because even the most isekai-filled seasons don't tend to have that many. Like, I can not only deny that, but I'd even go as far as to assert it as an objectively false statement. Here. Look. This is the basis on which I assert that as an objectively false statement.

4 seasons in 2012, 4 in 2013, 4 in 2014, 4 in 2015, 4 in 2016, 4 in 2017, and 3 seasons into 2018 comprise the 1155 total anime released number featured in that post, which is the smaller one that takes the 37 anime released for future seasons at the time out of the equation, none of which were Isekai. 32 Isekai in 27 seasons barely averages out to more than one per season on average since 2012. Out of 40 - 60 anime released per season, I would absolutely not call one per season to be an overpopulation and would consider it hyperbole for one to do so.

Therefore, I reject the notion that it's overpopulated or even that prominent. The prominency is something I very much consider to be on community reaction and discussion, rather than the amount of isekai being produced on a seasonal basis. It's as noticeable as the community makes it, basically, even though numerically it's a very, very small percentage of anime being released.

I didn't asked if it's an overpopulated genre(which it is)

Also you probably are right it's not overpopulated but i didn't find a better word at the time so i used that

I can't make heads or tails of you here.

Are you saying it's overpopulated or was it just that you had issues finding a better word?

Anyway, I don't really care if you were wanting me to focus on that or not, because I saw the sentiment be asserted as part of the thread and I disagree with the sentiment pretty strongly and feel that it's pretty much misinformation at worst or just a drastic overstatement at best.

I also did talk about the type of thing that you wanted the thread to be about, just not in the way it seems you really wanted me to because I think the way you want me to do so would end up being incredibly reductive and negligent and I don't want to cross that threshold. I even isolated it from the part where I expressed just how much I disagree with the concept of it being overpopulated.

I just don't think something like Log Horizon and something like Death March are really all that comparable past characters being isekai'd into a videogame and that it's negligent to whittle both of them down to just this element for comparison's sake whenever one is something much more geared towards concepts like building a society through economic and political means in order to adapt to the new setting, whereas the other features pretty much nothing of that sort and is primarily using the adventure as a vessel for character interactions and fluffy, Slice of Life stuff with a bit of action to it. One has dramatic tension and a degree of gusto towards how it handles its central theme, the other seeks to be pretty upbeat and at ease with the way it progresses and is a very relaxed series overall. The way they build on that is so different that they possesses two completely different forms of appeal and will attract two different audiences, and at most I'd be doing a comparison which would amount to assessing the qualities of each show individually and then slamming the quality of the two together after the fact, as opposed to a direct comparison between the two, because they don't have enough crossover in their holistic identities at all to be able to compare said elements in the first place. I could say Log Horizon did its political and economic intrigue elements better than Death March did its SoL elements, or vice versa, but what's that accomplishing other than forcing a comparison based on a thin thread?

This is one of the issues I believe many isekai face that makes holding it and assessing it as a cohesive entity considerably more difficult than something like the ecchi comedy. Death March and Smartphone can have much more parallels in how they handle themselves so comparisons can be easier to make - they both tend to operate within a series that has the same approach to how it progresses, focuses on similar elements, possesses the same main tone, et cetera. They're not so far removed from each other that I'd have to neglect everything about them to reduce them to a single aspect of them to attempt to do a comparison on the holistic quality of both shows.

But how am I supposed to compare Death March and Log Horizon without just making them both nothing more than their most base component, neglecting everything else about them, just so I can assert whether I prefer stuff that's more lax and slice of life-y in how it handles the setting or something that's more geared towards political and economic intrigue being the basis of an overarching narrative? It's like taking a straight up drama and a straight up comedy and asking which is the better school anime, because, y'know, they both take place in schools and that's really the only important thing here.

It seems like the only fundamental they share is that they're both isekai series involving videogame settings, and the way they diverge from there takes them in two almost completely opposite directions to the point where, no, the only way I see a comparison being warranted is when we reduce them to just being those things and completely neglect the apples to oranges nature of literally everything else they build on the basic premise with. And, yes, I do feel like that happens with isekai a lot.

Also you can't compare one genre to the rest of anime, it doesn't work that way. It is like saying that one piece isn't long because against the rest shonen is a tiny part.

Where did I even do that anywhere in this post?

Where does the One Piece example possess any relevancy to the point I was making, considering the only thing I talked about was Isekai and holding it relative to one another and the issues with making direct comparisons with some of these shows, as well as some of the issues I feel are prevalent within the community consensus when it comes to approaching the genre itself?

Have a nice day.

At least your attempt at a mic drop was as flimsy as your retort, if nothing else.

When i say have a nice day i mean it so have a nice day and please stop acting like you are some kind of enemy or justic voice because you are not.

Also have a nice day.

LiedElfenNov 29, 2018 7:38 AM

Nov 29, 2018 7:40 AM

#58

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Feb 2010

34597

Why are people calling Re:Creators or Net-juu 'isekai' in this thread? That's just ridiculous. The term is pretty clearly defined, don't just throw it around for any random title or it becomes meaningless.

Anyway, if you ask me I like most isekai shows and I feel they are pretty varied in tone, story, subgenres, atmosphere etc... Would I prefer some more 'full' fantasy anime? Probably. But I still like fantasy settings enough to just be happy to get a bunch of them in the form of isekai, and the isekai aspect itself can be used interestingly as well.

I probably regret this post by now.

Nov 29, 2018 7:57 AM

#59

romagia

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Feb 2013

17563

Pullman said:
Why are people calling Re:Creators or Net-juu 'isekai' in this thread? That's just ridiculous. The term is pretty clearly defined, don't just throw it around for any random title or it becomes meaningless.

some people are just structural rebels :^)
https://i.redd.it/kno3w6n79xs01.png

Nov 29, 2018 8:00 AM

#60

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Feb 2010

34597

romagia said:

Pullman said:
Why are people calling Re:Creators or Net-juu 'isekai' in this thread? That's just ridiculous. The term is pretty clearly defined, don't just throw it around for any random title or it becomes meaningless.

some people are just structural rebels :^)
https://i.redd.it/kno3w6n79xs01.png

SAO at least starts out as an isekai (trapped in another world) so it never bothered me that much when people talk about it as an isekai. But without another world and being trapped, I don't see how it qualifies for isekai even in the slightest -.-.

I probably regret this post by now.

Nov 29, 2018 8:08 AM

#61

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Nov 2018

1119

Pullman said:

romagia said:

some people are just structural rebels :^)
https://i.redd.it/kno3w6n79xs01.png

SAO at least starts out as an isekai (trapped in another world) so it never bothered me that much when people talk about it as an isekai. But without another world and being trapped, I don't see how it qualifies for isekai even in the slightest -.-.

The mc of that Re:creators series is trapped in this world and this is another world for her, so if it's by trapped in another world it qualifies.

Nov 29, 2018 8:15 AM

#62

thepath

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May 2012

6847

LiedElfen said:

thepath said:
Isekai is not overpopulated genre. There much more slice of life and sport anime than Isekai. Unlike Isekai, most slice of life anime are boring, while most isekai anime are entertaining.

95% of modern isekai that I've seen are good. Even that smartphone anime that aired sometime ago was entertaining to watch.

I see you like isekai, but i don't think that the genre is that good simply because there is not genre that is that good, i think that isekai are entertaining but that doesn't mean they're good. Also yes is an overpopulated genre.

Entertaining = good in my book. If a show entertains me then it is good. Period

Nov 29, 2018 8:17 AM

#63

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Feb 2010

34597

LiedElfen said:

Pullman said:

SAO at least starts out as an isekai (trapped in another world) so it never bothered me that much when people talk about it as an isekai. But without another world and being trapped, I don't see how it qualifies for isekai even in the slightest -.-.

The mc of that Re:creators series is trapped in this world and this is another world for her, so if it's by trapped in another world it qualifies.

not really. Trapped in our, familiar world is different from being trapped in 'another' world. Another meaning, well, not ours. It's a definition that comes from the viewer's perspective after all. We don't even get to see the 'other' world in Re:Creators, it exists only conceptually for the most part. We only ever really see ours IIRC. It has more in common with any random anime where out world is under attack from someone who isn't from this world.

And that's really what should count for categorization. You can get technical and semantical but if that just ends up including shows that are structurally and in any other way very different from all the classic isekai shows, what good does it do to shoehorn those into the definition? The basic premise is that the viewers can relate to the 'being trapped in another world' aspect because they are also from the 'real' world and share the same experiences as the MC when he enters a new world. It being 'another world' for the viewer is just as important, otherwise the whole isekai aspect doesn't have any relevance. Characters coming from unknown, undefined places into our world is not isekai unless you want to stretch the definition of isekai so it becomes utterly meaningless.

I probably regret this post by now.

Nov 29, 2018 8:36 AM

#64

TripleSRank

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Nov 2011

9206

I don’t understand why it gets so much flak categorically. There are good ones and bad ones, just like anything else. There are also few enough that I could feasibly watch them all in a few months if I had a whim.

Also, reminder that SAO isn’t isekai. It’s VR, which is different.

Nov 29, 2018 8:40 AM

#65

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Feb 2010

34597

TripleSRank said:
I don’t understand why it gets so much flak categorically. There are good ones and bad ones, just like anything else. There are also few enough that I could feasibly watch them all in a few months if I had a whim.

Also, reminder that SAO isn’t isekai. It’s VR, which is different.

First arc of SAO is isekai tho. The rest of the series isn't. So I understand why people include it just based on that first arc. Virtual or not doesn't really matter since there is no functional difference, it's still 'another world' and they are being trapped in it for the first arc.

I probably regret this post by now.

Nov 29, 2018 8:40 AM

#66

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Nov 2018

1119

Pullman said:

LiedElfen said:

The mc of that Re:creators series is trapped in this world and this is another world for her, so if it's by trapped in another world it qualifies.

not really. Trapped in our, familiar world is different from being trapped in 'another' world. Another meaning, well, not ours. It's a definition that comes from the viewer's perspective after all. We don't even get to see the 'other' world in Re:Creators, it exists only conceptually for the most part. We only ever really see ours IIRC. It has more in common with any random anime where out world is under attack from someone who isn't from this world.

And that's really what should count for categorization. You can get technical and semantical but if that just ends up including shows that are structurally and in any other way very different from all the classic isekai shows, what good does it do to shoehorn those into the definition? The basic premise is that the viewers can relate to the 'being trapped in another world' aspect because they are also from the 'real' world and share the same experiences as the MC when he enters a new world. It being 'another world' for the viewer is just as important, otherwise the whole isekai aspect doesn't have any relevance. Characters coming from unknown, undefined places into our world is not isekai unless you want to stretch the definition of isekai so it becomes utterly meaningless.

You have a point but i still consider it an isekai eventhough is only in this world and that's because the uniqueness of the mc can't be from this world(just kidding).

Nov 29, 2018 8:44 AM

#67

Laionidas

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Jan 2014

1260

For me the only real palatable isekai is KonoSuba,.. because it's taking a piss at isekai.

There are a few isekai manga that I like, but those ones specifically are not true isekai, in that they either do not feature a real-world person travelling there (so they're more like regular fantasy with action RPG or MMORPG references), or use the travelling trope only to support a narrative about political or historic diversity.

romagia said:
overpopulated maybe compared to the near past but still a small percentage of overall anime in a season.....

uninstallthegame said:
i think you misused the word 'overpopulated' with 'popular'. a genre isn't a place after all

This is precisely the problem. A very basic theme shouldn't become to be considered a genre at all. With any other basic theme, any subsequent releases, at least after the third variation or so, would be considered a rip-off. With any other basic theme having at least one variation each season, would make it 'overpopulated' or rather overly popular. However, with isekai we suddenly consider it a genre, while it really isn't, as most of them follow the exact same course.

CordobezEverdeen said:
99% of them are garbage.
Eventually even the ones that look decent will descent into a power fantasy filled with women.

This.

"I'm a middle schooler bartender!"

- Mishima Hitomi

Nov 29, 2018 8:46 AM

#68

TripleSRank

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Nov 2011

9206

Pullman said:

TripleSRank said:
I don’t understand why it gets so much flak categorically. There are good ones and bad ones, just like anything else. There are also few enough that I could feasibly watch them all in a few months if I had a whim.

Also, reminder that SAO isn’t isekai. It’s VR, which is different.

First arc of SAO is isekai tho. The rest of the series isn't. So I understand why people include it just based on that first arc. Virtual or not doesn't really matter since there is no functional difference, it's still 'another world' and they are being trapped in it for the first arc.

There actually is a difference because they’re still in normal reality. They’re just in a different part of normal reality. You could pull the plug to the servers in person and kill a ton of people playing the game.

It’s the same conceptually as the Matrix, so no, that’s not isekai.

Nov 29, 2018 8:48 AM

#69

sodomized

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Oct 2013

2234

it's only reasonable to think so

shows like sao and rezero are the pinnacle of creativity and wit, don't @ me

Nov 29, 2018 9:05 AM

#70

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Feb 2010

34597

TripleSRank said:

Pullman said:

First arc of SAO is isekai tho. The rest of the series isn't. So I understand why people include it just based on that first arc. Virtual or not doesn't really matter since there is no functional difference, it's still 'another world' and they are being trapped in it for the first arc.

There actually is a difference because they’re still in normal reality. They’re just in a different part of normal reality. You could pull the plug to the servers in person and kill a ton of people playing the game.

It’s the same conceptually as the Matrix, so no, that’s not isekai.

Well, if you want to get technical but for all intents and purposes the setup is the same, the character that the story follows is being trapped in another world. Complicating it beyond that is something you can do but I don't really see the point of it unless the stuff you talk about actually happens and isn't just a theoretical possibility.

It's very different from Matrix as well because first of all in Matrix there is no awareness of being trapped in a virtual world so that isn't really a theme until he's already escaping or escaped. Also the virtual world is 'our' world (or a copy of it) and not some other world they went to and that's the significant twist of Matrix that makes it conceptually very different from SAO. It just uses some similar concepts, but the focus and execution and pretty much everything about them is completely different so I don't see the point in categorizing them as the same type of show.

That's kinda my point. SAO (the arc) is much more similar to other isekai anime titles than to something like Matrix no matter how many technical arguments there are to support your claim. I find it hard not to see that basic similarity. And at the end of the day I find that a much more relevant criteria for categorization than some technicalities they have in common. Functionally the first SAO arc plays out like any isekai setting where the characters are treated like actually being in that other world, so there's nothing wrong in treating them the same way as far as I'm concerned. You can argue about 'what could have happened' (your unplugging argument), but the fact is we know what did actually happen and none of it was really that different from an isekai setup.

So you're not wrong, I just don't see the point of insisting that SAO can't get discussed alongside other isekai titles when that arc is functionally the same.

I probably regret this post by now.

Nov 29, 2018 9:19 AM

#71

TripleSRank

Offline

Nov 2011

9206

Pullman said:

TripleSRank said:

There actually is a difference because they’re still in normal reality. They’re just in a different part of normal reality. You could pull the plug to the servers in person and kill a ton of people playing the game.

It’s the same conceptually as the Matrix, so no, that’s not isekai.

Well, if you want to get technical but for all intents and purposes the setup is the same, the character that the story follows is being trapped in another world. Complicating it beyond that is something you can do but I don't really see the point of it unless the stuff you talk about actually happens and isn't just a theoretical possibility.

It's very different from Matrix as well because first of all in Matrix there is no awareness of being trapped in a virtual world so that isn't really a theme until he's already escaping or escaped. Also the virtual world is 'our' world (or a copy of it) and not some other world they went to and that's the significant twist of Matrix that makes it conceptually very different from SAO. It just uses some similar concepts, but the focus and execution and pretty much everything about them is completely different so I don't see the point in categorizing them as the same type of show.

That's kinda my point. SAO (the arc) is much more similar to other isekai anime titles than to something like Matrix no matter how many technical arguments there are to support your claim. I find it hard not to see that basic similarity. And at the end of the day I find that a much more relevant criteria for categorization than some technicalities they have in common. Functionally the first SAO arc plays out like any isekai setting where the characters are treated like actually being in that other world, so there's nothing wrong in treating them the same way as far as I'm concerned. You can argue about 'what could have happened' (your unplugging argument), but the fact is we know what did actually happen and none of it was really that different from an isekai setup.

So you're not wrong, I just don't see the point of insisting that SAO can't get discussed alongside other isekai titles when that arc is functionally the same.

‘Because being trapped in the mental realm isn’t the same as literally being in another world. If you don’t like the Matrix example then let’s use GitS. In Stand Alone Complex there was a box where the perfect movie played endlessly. The vast, vast majority of people who entered were never able to leave because the movie was so good.

Their physical bodies were in the real world yet they got stuck in a virtual one. Yet I have no doubt you wouldn’t consider this an isekai setup either.

Let’s make it a little tougher: The Greed Island arc in HxH. The protagonists are in the real world under different “rules”, which is conceptually equivalent to VR. They can die, and in this case they are even physically present within the “game”. They’re trapped... but it’s still normal reality. Just like with SAO.

Virtual reality is an interesting concept in its own right, but trying to mix it with isekai just dillutes both concepts.

Edit: Also, who’s to say there can’t be urban fantasy or sci-fi isekai? Being similar to the real world doesn’t preclude a series from being isekai.

TripleSRankNov 29, 2018 9:23 AM

Nov 29, 2018 11:07 AM

#72

Haak

Offline

Apr 2010

19

In the past, stories about being sent to a fantastical world were meant to be coming of age stories where the main character (or the viewer in the case of Now & Then, Here & There) would gain a new perspective that they could apply when they returned to the real world. And in most cases the moral of the story was that wish-fulfillment fantasies don't actually exist past childhood.

Nowadays Isekai have almost totally lost that element and have gone into full shameless escapist-wank mode. Either that or they're basically the author going "this is the kind of RPG I'd like to play and what I'd do in it". There's just no purpose to them anymore and until they regain that coming of age element then they'll always be deficient. Even Re:Zero isn't perfect in that regards (although it's a damn site better than anything else recent)

Nov 29, 2018 11:13 AM

#73

needlexd

Offline

Sep 2016

337

It can be if the feeling and the story is presented well and they have likable characters and not all cheesy plot twists ;p

Nov 29, 2018 11:59 AM

#74

magaiverix

Offline

Aug 2017

234

Yea sure almost each gamer's dream.

Nov 29, 2018 12:31 PM

#75

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

it's boring and the ecchi in isekai makes everything 10x worse

Nov 29, 2018 4:17 PM

#76

Re_Rem-0

Offline

Feb 2017

89

In my opinion it really depends on the show. It might be due to the popularity of the concept, as it is easy for world building and create a form of escapism in written form. There will always be a lot of shows that have a certain concept/genre and there are shows that won't even in the perception of "watchable." However, they're will be shows that will reach that threshold, even surpassing it, far exceeding viewer initial expectations and turn out to be all time greats. Such shows would be the ones you've mentioned above.

Its funny, a while back there was a writing contest in Japan that disqualified the isekai genre for submission because they're were just too many submissions or it was relatively easy/lazy.

Nov 29, 2018 4:27 PM

#77

NthDegree

Offline

Dec 2013

2104

Isekai is just a genre, so it isn't either good or bad. That being said, most isekai anime lately have been pretty garbage, but there are some good ones there too. My favorite isekai is The Vision of Escaflowne.

Nov 29, 2018 4:32 PM

#78

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

In general? From what I've seen? The answer is no.
It feels like every isekai anime I watch is either just copy and pasting a format, or attempts to "subvert" itself half-assedly.

Manaban said:
Isekai isn't even the most represented genre right now, let alone an overpopulated one. Just like magic schools before it, people usually pick out one a season (if there even is one), and whenever there is one, these same people will suddenly just go like OH LOOK ANOTHER ISKEAI THIS SEASON JUST LIKE THERE WAS ONE TWO SEASONS AGO THESE THINGS ARE EVERYWHERE AMIRITE. There are 40 - 60 anime per season. One type of show drawing an audience consistently every season - or what feels more like every other season at most in this case, frankly - is not overpopulation. One per season is not overpopulation.

Don't you think you're generalizing people? If I remember correctly, weren't you one of the people who criticized me in my past threads for generalizing people too?

Manaban said:
We did the math in another thread on this exact topic, taking a list that listed out every Isekai released from 2012 onwards, and cross-checking it with the amount of anime released between now and then, and it was a pretty fuckin' pitiful amount compared to the entire breadth of anime being released ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well...yeah. If you compare the quantity of one genre vs everything else, than the letter obviously wins. Shouldn't you instead compare individual genre's quantities?

Manaban said:
huge number of ones that nobody pays attention to beneath the same ones that always get named, it's never felt like anything more than a fabricated criticism or issue being targeted at the industry to me, rooted in overstating the presence of these things to the point of dishonesty.

I'm pretty sure most anime that come out per season get enough attention on MAL.

Manaban said:
Anyway, it can be. There are good ones, there are bad ones, there are in-between ones.

Well, my experience disagrees.

Manaban said:
This is applicable to any genre, and Isekai is no exception on that front. Being an Isekai in of itself is only an actual problem with a given series whenever the viewer in question just doesn't like Isekai as a matter preference, and as a fundamental concept or proponent to something, it doesn't actually speak of any amount of quality that can be found within, going towards any direction. Haphazardly grouping works that have some shared fundamentals together to discuss them as a uniform entity without taking into consideration how vastly they can differ when extending from said basis seems like it's just outright neglectful to me, and I'd rather focus on things one at a time to build a holistic viewpoint of where a genre is at, rather than taking a genre being laid out before me and ascertaining the quality of said genre just because it exists. It's why comparisons between Overlord and Death March, Smartphone and Log Horizon, KonoSuba and Re:Zero, so on and so forth are going to be warranted, because they're all fucking isekai that extend in pretty stark contrast with each other in spite of their similarities.

I hope you realize that formatting your points in a more...shall we say, "fancy" we isn't going to make it better for people reading them. I think you should've just stated your point much more simply.

Hatred said:
it's boring and the ecchi in isekai makes everything 10x worse

But...echi is awesome...it's why Highschool DxD is awesome...

removed-userNov 29, 2018 4:45 PM

Nov 29, 2018 4:57 PM

#79

Arch-Degenerate

Offline

Sep 2015

7676

HopefulNihilist said:
Don't you think you're generalizing people? If I remember correctly, weren't you one of the people who criticized me in my past threads for generalizing people too.

There's a difference between generalizing people and stating an issue with a perceived general sentiment and that difference is a pretty large one. In your case, the issues I were taking with you was that you specifically seemed to try to take perspectives of audiences you weren't a part of, take your own experience and try to force that as an objectively tensed argument beyond the parameters of your own experience and then proceeding to blame literally everybody else around you for your lack of forethought in things like word choice or the examples you used and throw temper tantrums because of as much.

In my case here, I am taking an idea that seems to be rooted in enough hyperbole to fringe on outright dishonesty - the concept of Isekai overunning the medium - and am substantiating said issues I have with the sentiment with numerical data. I am telling you that it is a numerically false sentiment and attempting to substantiate as much with how we broke down these numbers in another thread.

Now, am I doing that in a mocking way? Sure, I am. It is an outright dishonest sentiment, and I am going to treat it with disrespect because of as much. I'd be acting conciliatory if I were to just beat around it, which I have no intention of being. This isn't a matter of perspective on what we value and prioritize in entertainment, mind you, we're taking in numbers and releases.

So unless someone, somehow, believes that one-per-season-on-average relative to the rest of the seasonal pools ranging from 2012 to present is overrunning the medium still, then it leaves that foundation I am challenging them on and goes into "How much constitutes oversaturation?" - which isn't a discussion I am concerned about having, because I believe that what I've already said speaks for itself when it comes to my own stance.

If you want to try to make some fallocious argument rooted in Whataboutism to discredit me, you can at least get the parameters of what you're contending and what the issue with your own threads often was straight.

HopefulNihilist said:
Well...yeah. If you compare the quantity of one genre vs everything else, than the letter obviously wins. Shouldn't you instead compare individual genre's quantities?

I will gladly do so and take note of that whenever the ideas that caused me to crunch these numbers and hold them up as an example aren't rooted in "isekai versus everything else" themselves. The issue of "A single genre is overrunning the medium" isn't a case of the criticism being leveraged in being held against a single genre, as much as it is the genre in question (isekai) being held up against everything else.

It'd be making an argument against what isn't even being said if I were to do what you're trying to convince me to do here, basically. That is what dumb people do whenever they do not have an argument to make. I do actually attempt to not be a dumb person.

HopefulNihilist said:
I'm pretty sure most anime that come out per season get enough attention on MAL.

Yes. And the context of what I was saying and you're using to challenge this sentiment was in direct opposition to the idea that there were more than just the ones often brought up, i.e. "there's 3 - 5 for every unpopular one." There is literally not. The DB, the anime release schedules, all of this substantiates this idea, and yet I was met with this retort by another user in this very thread, after I made this post. Go figure.

HopefulNihilist said:
Well, my experience disagrees.

Thank you for sharing that.

Now to tell you that I do not care about your experience disagreeing with mine if you're not even going to attempt to form a discussion with asserting the difference. There is literally no reason to bring this up in this context other than to try to force some kind of disagreement. Pointless and non-additive.

HopefulNihilist said:
I hope you realize that formatting your points in a more...shall we say, "fancy" we isn't going to make it better for people reading them. I think you should've just stated your point much more simply.

Sorry you feel that way, but I'm going to write in the way I'm most comfortable writing, because I think that's ultimately going to have a better chance of me illustrating my point to people, rather than centering it around any specific individual qualms.

Tough luck, basically, I'll communicate myself how I think works best for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ManabanNov 29, 2018 5:17 PM

Nov 29, 2018 5:16 PM

#80

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

@Manaban

...I have almost no clue what you just said. Except for:
"I think that's ultimately going to have a better chance of me illustrating my point to people"
You...do realize that this is the internet and not an English class, right? If I had almost no clue of what you just said, then surely, there are other people who've read your post that don't either. Look, I'm not trying to argue.

Tantrum? You call going online, and getting into arguments with complete strangers a tantrum? If that's your definition of a tantrum, then I pray to God you never see an actual tantrum in real life.
I never threw a tantrum. I either misunderstood what other people said as dissing me, or I responded to people dissing me. Once again, you're taking things I said out of context.
That's low. I thought you were better than most MAL users, but you're not.
You're no better than the people you insult.

I seriously hope you didn't call me dumb. If you dare throw any disses at me, I'm reporting you. End of story. I'm not going to let you take anything I say out of context like you did to me last time.

"stating an issue with a perceived general sentiment"
...Except you didn't state an issue with a "perceived general sentiment". You literally said

Manaban said:
people usually pick out one a season (if there even is one), and whenever there is one, these same people will suddenly just go like OH LOOK ANOTHER ISKEAI THIS SEASON JUST LIKE THERE WAS ONE TWO SEASONS AGO THESE THINGS ARE EVERYWHERE AMIRITE.

Not only that, your tone is incredibly condescending. And you're one of the people who criticized me for insulting others? Wow.

Manaban said:
There are 40 - 60 anime per season. One type of show drawing an audience consistently every season - or what feels more like every other season at most in this case, frankly - is not overpopulation. One per season is not overpopulation.

This season we have:
-SAO Alicization
-That Time We got Reincarnated as a Slime
-Conception
I'm starting to doubt you actually looked up the amount of isekai every season.

Nov 29, 2018 5:30 PM

#81

Deknijff

Offline

Oct 2013

7889

HopefulNihilist said:
This season we have:
-SAO Alicization
-That Time We got Reincarnated as a Slime
-Conception
I'm starting to doubt you actually looked up the amount of isekai every season.

SAO not even an isekai though Nih so please :/

Nov 29, 2018 5:51 PM

#82

Arch-Degenerate

Offline

Sep 2015

7676

HopefulNihilist said:
...I have almost no clue what you just said. Except for:
"I think that's ultimately going to have a better chance of me illustrating my point to people"
You...do realize that this is the internet and not an English class, right? If I had almost no clue of what you just said, then surely, there are other people who've read your post that don't either. Look, I'm not trying to argue.

Alright, sorry to hear you have trouble understanding what I'm saying, but that's not going to be my problem. The entire point of what I was saying was that I feel better at communicating my ideas whenever I do so in a way I feel most comfortable doing it in because I think that leads to better posts from me, not whether you specifically liked it or got it. I'm not expecting everybody to like or want to read my posts or have an easy time doing so, and I can live with that.

I don't discuss things for you, basically, I still do it for myself. You aren't even very relevant to me past being a nuisance sometimes when you pop up and grab my attention, and I haven't made my posts easier to read for people I tend to be actually concerned with on the basis that it just doesn't seem like it'd actually help me flow easier, it'd just extra to try to force in. So sorry, but again, I just don't care about the issue you're having and I certainly don't see what you're (very non-descriptly) proposing I do to change how I write to be very additive or useful to me. All I can do is offer my condolences, I guess.

HopefulNihilist said:
Tantrum? You call going online, and getting into arguments with complete strangers a tantrum? If that's your definition of a tantrum, then I pray to God you never see an actual tantrum in real life.
I never threw a tantrum. I either misunderstood what other people said as dissing me, or I responded to people dissing me. Once again, you're taking things I said out of context.
That's low. I thought you were better than most MAL users, but you're not.
You're no better than the people you insult.

I don't consider arguing to be throwing a tantrum. I can't even begin to wrap my head around where you got that idea.

I consider doing things like that thing you tried pulling with myself, Noob and Mamster a while back because we didn't agree with you to be a tantrum, i.e.:

I WILL report you from this forum if this continues.
In real life, I am one of the coldest, unsympathetic, people you'll ever know, who's grown up in an even colder household, you really don't want me to break my persona, I know how to make people feel bad.

I also consider the "YOUR POST IS OFF-TOPIC I'M REPORTING YOU FOR DERAILING" that you pulled in every single thread whenever somebody criticized your OP to be throwing a tantrum. The weird "getting upset and telling everyone how hard your life was" didn't help matters at all. There is a littany of things like this that you're conveniently ignoring, it feels like.

You didn't make any arguments. If you had done so instead of the bazillion other bits of bullshit you pulled, then maybe these problems wouldn't have been as pronounced?

HopefulNihilist said:
That's low. I thought you were better than most MAL users, but you're not.

Sorry to disappoint? I'm literally mainly here because I want to defend ecchi and make my voice heard on this topic, specifically because I don't feel like there's enough pro-ecchi-as-it-currently-tends-to-be voices out there, and I want to do my best to provide that perspective. Winning user of the year and the adoration of those around me isn't exactly within my goals, and would probably run outright counter-intuitive to them, considering what they are.

HopefulNihilist said:
I seriously hope you didn't call me dumb. If you dare throw any disses at me, I'm reporting you. End of story. I'm not going to let you take anything I say out of context like you did to me last time.

I mean, I dunno if I called you dumb or not directly, but I will say that I've never really seen you bring anything to the table that I thought was worthwhile or even came off like it had much thought put into it. Mostly just feels like talking to a wall who has trouble with basic communication and discussing perspectives and so I tend to just not pay much attention to you at this point.

Trying to make the topic of my issues with the claims of isekai oversaturating the medium into a personal feud isn't helping matters any, considering you're not even really just addressing them at this point and are primarily complaining about your issues with me as a person.

HopefulNihilist said:
"stating an issue with a perceived general sentiment"
...Except you didn't state an issue with a "perceived general sentiment". You literally said

Alright. Now watch the magic unfold.

There are people who will usually pick out one a season (if there even is one) to blah blah blah

Hope that makes you feel a bit better, I guess. I don't see it as me being careless with words as much as you just being overly literal in how you're wanting things worded, but whatever.

HopefulNihilist said:
Not only that, your tone is incredibly condescending. And you're one of the people who criticized me for insulting others? Wow.

Addressed that already. Please read before responding, it tends to help you navigate things better.

Manaban said:
Now, am I doing that in a mocking way? Sure, I am. It is an outright dishonest sentiment, and I am going to treat it with disrespect because of as much. I'd be acting conciliatory if I were to just beat around it, which I have no intention of being. This isn't a matter of perspective on what we value and prioritize in entertainment, mind you, we're taking in numbers and releases.

Fair game to think that I'm acting like a dickhead about it, because I am. I just don't care that I am given what I'm acting like one about - I pretty much explicitly told you I wanted to be because of how I viewed the sentiment - and it doesn't suddenly invalidate anything else I brought up. So there you have it.

HopefulNihilist said:
This season we have:
-SAO Alicization
-That Time We got Reincarnated as a Slime
-Conception
I'm starting to doubt you actually looked up the amount of isekai every season.

Well, I showed the source I used to count them. It doesn't hurt to look at the date of which that was posted as well, which was last season. I literally noted that in this very thread already, the metric by which I used the 1155 number, the one I consider to be more accurate:

4 seasons in 2012, 4 in 2013, 4 in 2014, 4 in 2015, 4 in 2016, 4 in 2017, and 3 seasons into 2018 comprise the 1155 total anime released number featured in that post, which is the smaller one that takes the 37 anime released for future seasons at the time out of the equation, none of which were Isekai. 32 Isekai in 27 seasons barely averages out to more than one per season on average since 2012. Out of 40 - 60 anime released per season, I would absolutely not call one per season to be an overpopulation and would consider it hyperbole for one to do so.

If we wanna do this, then I'll give full benefit of the doubt and include SAO, so here:

32 + 3 = 35

1155+54 = 1209

35/1209 = 2.8949545078577%

Woo. There you have it. It actually ups the percentage from the original by around 0.2%, because 3 is still two more than what the average is. And that number of "Three" is still coming from a pool of 54 TV anime, meaning we have 51 non-isekai anime in an overachieving season for isekai anime.

Good lord, we're doomed. It's truly spreading like wildfire.

ManabanNov 29, 2018 6:14 PM

Nov 29, 2018 6:28 PM

#83

Kruszer

Offline

Dec 2012

9374

The medieval "magic and swords" type fantasy is often hit or miss with me. and the particular branching sub-genre of it you're talking about is no exception.

As far as Isekai goes, I like:

KruszerNov 29, 2018 6:38 PM

"Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them."
-Souske Aizen "Bleach"

Nov 29, 2018 6:32 PM

#84

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

Manaban said:

Alright, sorry to hear you have trouble understanding what I'm saying, but that's not going to be my problem. The entire point of what I was saying was that I feel better at communicating my ideas whenever I do so in a way I feel most comfortable doing it in because I think that leads to better posts from me, not whether you specifically liked it or got it. I'm not expecting everybody to like or want to read my posts or have an easy time doing so, and I can live with that.

That's fair. I have no intention of interfering with your writing style.

Manaban said:
I consider doing things like that thing you tried pulling with myself, Noob and Mamster a while back because we didn't agree with you to be a tantrum, i.e.:

Manaban said:

I also consider the "YOUR POST IS OFF-TOPIC I'M REPORTING YOU FOR DERAILING" that you pulled in every single thread whenever somebody criticized your OP to be throwing a tantrum. The weird "getting upset and telling everyone how hard your life was" didn't help matters at all. There is a littany of things like this that you're conveniently ignoring, it feels like.

Again, you are taking what I said out of context: where did I ever threaten to report people for DISAGREEING with me? You have never cited a single post where I've done this. The only people I threatened to report were ones who insulted me, like katsucat's, who repeatedly keeps coming onto every thread I post about socialization just to insult me.

Manaban said:
You didn't make any arguments. If you had done so instead of the bazillion other bits of bullshit you pulled, then maybe these problems wouldn't have been as pronounced?

Arguments on what? You're not being clear on what topic you are talking about.

Manaban said:

Sorry to disappoint? I'm literally mainly here because I want to defend ecchi and make my voice heard on this topic, specifically because I don't feel like there's enough pro-ecchi-as-it-currently-tends-to-be voices out there, and I want to do my best to provide that perspective. Winning user of the year and the adoration of those around me isn't exactly within my goals, and would probably run outright counter-intuitive to them, considering what they are.

So in other words, are you admitting that you are no better than the average MAL user: rude, immature, short-tempered?

Manaban said:

I mean, I dunno if I called you dumb or not directly, but I will say that I've never really seen you bring anything to the table that I thought was worthwhile or even came off like it had much thought put into it. Mostly just feels like talking to a wall who has trouble with basic communication and discussing perspectives and so I tend to just not pay much attention to you at this point.

...Then how come you always posted on any thread I made?

Manaban said:
Trying to make the topic of my issues with the claims of isekai oversaturating the medium into a personal feud isn't helping matters any, considering you're not even really just addressing them at this point and are primarily complaining about your issues with me as a person.

I apologize if it looks like I'm trying to turn this into a, "personnel feud": my problem isn't with you: it's with your attitude, which I wanted to talk about, alongside isekai.

Manaban said:
you just being overly literal in how you're wanting things worded, but whatever.

Um...welcome to the internet?

Manaban said:

Well, I showed the source I used to count them. It doesn't hurt to look at the date of which that was posted as well, which was last season. I literally noted that in this very thread already, the metric by which I used the 1155 number, the one I consider to be more accurate:

4 seasons in 2012, 4 in 2013, 4 in 2014, 4 in 2015, 4 in 2016, 4 in 2017, and 3 seasons into 2018 comprise the 1155 total anime released number featured in that post, which is the smaller one that takes the 37 anime released for future seasons at the time out of the equation, none of which were Isekai. 32 Isekai in 27 seasons barely averages out to more than one per season on average since 2012. Out of 40 - 60 anime released per season, I would absolutely not call one per season to be an overpopulation and would consider it hyperbole for one to do so.

If we wanna do this, then I'll give full benefit of the doubt and include SAO, so here:

32 + 3 = 35

1155+54 = 1209

35/1209 = 2.8949545078577%

Ah, I'm sorry about that: I misread. It tends to happen with many people online when they read walls of text.

Manaban said:

Woo. There you have it. It actually ups the percentage from the original by around 0.2%, because 3 is still two more than what the average is. And that number of "Three" is still coming from a pool of 54 TV anime, meaning we have 51 non-isekai anime in an overachieving season for isekai anime.

Good lord, we're doomed. It's truly spreading like wildfire.

I think the reason people emphasize isekai as being "saturated" is because:

1) The most popular shows tend to be isekai nowadays
2) They tend to have very similar premises

Nov 29, 2018 6:46 PM

#85

Arch-Degenerate

Offline

Sep 2015

7676

HopefulNihilist said:
Again, you are taking what I said out of context: where did I ever threaten to report people for DISAGREEING with me? You have never cited a single post where I've done this. The only people I threatened to report were ones who insulted me, like katsucat's, who repeatedly keeps coming onto every thread I post about socialization just to insult me.

Except for where I did? On top of the - admittedly kind of funny - attempts to intimidate that you heaped on top of it aside from threatening reporting?

Ok.

HopefulNihilist said:
...Then how come you always posted on any thread I made?

The better question here would be "When was the last time I did so?" but, again, Ok.

HopefulNihilist said:
So in other words, are you admitting that you are no better than the average MAL user: rude, immature, short-tempered?

Whatever helps you sleep at night, buddy.

HopefulNihilist said:
I apologize if it looks like I'm trying to turn this into a, "personnel feud": my problem isn't with you: it's with your attitude, which I wanted to talk about, alongside isekai.

Too bad we're not doing much of the latter, really, albeit it doesn't really end up amounting to much when it's attempted later, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Aannnnd I just so happen to not care much about people thinking I'm a dickhead at this point, hence why I tend to have no qualms presenting myself in a way that can easily portray me as much. I don't go out of my way to be disrespectful to people, for whatever that's worth, but I see no need to hold back either. I'm also not mocking people for disliking isekai here, I could not feasibly care less whether they like it or not, my main issue that I've been disrespectful towards has been the notion of oversaturation and overrunning the medium in the first place. Which is generally presented from a numerical standpoint based on releases, rather than one of popularity, which is, again, something that's rather dubious.

And, for whatever it's worth, I find myself to have been more respectful here throughout than the posts on the first page that pretty much amount to calling people who like isekai no-lifers who need escapist fantasy to feel good about themselves from the first page. Better to mock a dishonest idea than to mock people for projections being made on their lifestyle for something as menial as liking something if you ask me. For some reason you seem much less interested in that and more interested in me making fun of a bad notion and explaining why I think the notion is kind of worthy of scorn.

HopefulNihilist said:
I think the reason people emphasize isekai as being "saturated" is because:

1) The most popular shows tend to be isekai nowadays
2) They tend to have very similar premises

I mean, I already brought forth the notion that it's a perception based entity in the sense that it's more a result of the attention being given to it than actual saturation. Or at least theorized it.

Manaban said:
The prominency is something I very much consider to be on community reaction and discussion, rather than the amount of isekai being produced on a seasonal basis. It's as noticeable as the community makes it, basically, even though numerically it's a very, very small percentage of anime being released.

I kind of feel like you just don't want to read text walls. That's fine and all, but you probably shouldn't try to start arguments with one if you're not actually going to read it. Otherwise we end up in situations where I'm just reiterating myself and we're going in circles and accomplishing absolutely nothing and you end up wasting my time with...well, stuff that amounts to nothing more than an inadvertent +1 to something I said previously, just being posed as some sort of differing perspective.

ManabanNov 29, 2018 6:57 PM

Nov 29, 2018 6:54 PM

#86

MScientist0

Offline

Oct 2018

109

I think the isekai genre fits with most escapist fantasies, therefore they're mostly quite enjoyable for the majority of people. Some of them are really good, while others are just mediocre. I do think that this genre is overpopulating the anime seasons, but I wouldn't mind it if the isekai anime presented had an interesting plot and decent characters.

Nov 29, 2018 7:04 PM

#87

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

Manaban said:

Except for where I did? On top of the - admittedly kind of funny - attempts to intimidate that you heaped on top of it aside from threatening reporting?

Ok.

You keep claiming that I, "threatened to report anybody for disagreeing" with me, but WHERE did I do this?

Manaban said:

The better question here would be "When was the last time I did so?" but, again, Ok.

Why did you ever post in any thread I made in the PAST if, according to you, none of what I said was interesting?

Manaban said:

Whatever helps you sleep at night, buddy.

Why are you being so condescending? I verified that I'm NOT trying to pick a fight with you.

Manaban said:

Too bad we're not doing much of the latter

Apologies for that. I've been having difficulty coming up with more points to discuss about isekai.

Manaban said:
really, albeit it doesn't really end up amounting to much when it's attempted later, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Any discussion is good discussion.

Manaban said:

I mean, I already brought forth the notion that it's a perception based entity in the sense that it's more a result of the attention being given to it than actual saturation. Or at least theorized it.

You may have, but you didn't word it clearly enough.

Manaban said:

I kind of feel like you just don't want to read text walls. That's fine and all, but you probably shouldn't try to start arguments with one if you're not actually going to read it. Otherwise we end up in situations where I'm just reiterating myself and we're going in circles and accomplishing absolutely nothing and you end up wasting my time with...well, stuff that amounts to nothing more than an inadvertent +1 to something I said previously, just being posed as some sort of differing perspective.

Where did you get the idea that I was trying to "argue" with you?
I think I did read your entire posts. I simply didn't understand a lot of it.

Okay, since you said we're not talking much about isekai, I'll ask you several questions:

1) What is your experience with isekai the genre as a WHOLE? Positive? Negative?
2) Do you think there will be higher quality isekai anime in the future?
3) What isekai light/visual novels or manga would you want to see adapted, and that you think would be good isekai anime?

Nov 29, 2018 7:10 PM

#88

Arch-Degenerate

Offline

Sep 2015

7676

@HopefulNihilist

1) What is your experience with isekai the genre as a WHOLE? Positive? Negative?

Positive, I guess. I can't think of any I strongly disliked and I can think of a few I had positive feelings towards. It's rarely the thing that I find myself caring about the most in these types of shows and tends to just be a vessel for other things I end up liking.

2) Do you think there will be higher quality isekai anime in the future?

Iunno and I don't really care. I'm not particularly invested in the concept enough to think about what direction I want it to head and what area I want to see more of. It's more a case of "Oh this seems like it could be cool" and I'll watch it, and if I like it I'll like it. It isn't like ecchi to me, where I avidly keep track of releases and try to watch shows just because that's a big thing in them and put forth a lot of thought in trying to figure out what I like most about these things and where I think it's headed.

3) What isekai light/visual novels or manga would you want to see adapted, and that you think would be good isekai anime?

Dude, I know fuck all about LNs, VNs, and manga running about, outside of whatever Yabuki is doing. I have no clue.

ManabanNov 29, 2018 7:15 PM

Nov 29, 2018 7:51 PM

#89

15poundfish

Offline

Jun 2015

1949

Isekai as a sub genre is pretty diverse in the type of titles that exist within it. There are Isekai about cooking, farming, finance, business, economics, alchemy, chemistry, metal working, ruling as a king, building societies, etc. They might have similar fantasy settings and sometimes have game elements but the type of stories are often pretty diverse. There might be a popular trend where an average protagonist is given a cheat that gets him a harem but there are also stories that have more grounded characters without harems.

Nov 29, 2018 7:54 PM

#90

Elliesty

Offline

Apr 2015

806

I can only count maybe two out three decent isekai in my head, but most isekai shows out there are quite unpleasant to watch. Hopefully we get to move out to better things years down the road, not like isekai is planning to go anywhere anytime soon that's for sure.

Nov 29, 2018 10:18 PM

#91

chriskor022

Offline

Jul 2016

1688

Yes to some extent. Few isekai titles are great but mostly is bad and redundant.

Nov 30, 2018 7:42 AM

#92

red-tomato

Offline

Mar 2017

1507

if it revolves around the world and not the self insert mc, then yes.

An admin's dickhead Soul banned me from MAL t('v't)

Nov 30, 2018 11:02 AM

#93

Fleeting_Dream

Offline

Oct 2018

1566

I've only seen a couple older isekai anime (Digimon series and Magic Knight Rayearth) and they were pretty good.

Summertime days, passing gently

Sunlight, leading to an encounter;

Dreams that don't want to end

Continue onwards toward the next day

While she waits in the air.

Nov 30, 2018 12:06 PM

#94

D-ohnuts

Offline

Jul 2014

3117

There are probably good ones, but I haven't seen any I enjoyed.

Nov 30, 2018 1:45 PM

#95

Energetic-Nova

Offline

Jun 2011

5537

I liked a lot of older ones. But I am sure a new one will come around that I like just fine. <3

The anime community in a nutshell.

Nov 30, 2018 1:54 PM

#96

XXXroxaspew

Offline

Nov 2018

49

Is isekai well received? No.
But your level of enjoyment is unique to you.

Manga is expensive af

Nov 30, 2018 5:26 PM

#97

Stripes

otp haver 🤪

Offline

Jul 2017

6386

Isekai is great. We just need more people to be creative with it and stop making it about fucking video games.

Nov 30, 2018 5:35 PM

#98