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| @giraffemangome I am not disappointed, I just didn’t like how they ended such an emotional and heartfelt scene. |
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ABDoesThings said: RobertBobert said: Read the manga bruh. @ABDoesThings In any case, it’s hard for me to imagine that the same work could first say that homosexuality is an innate part of a person, but later use the plot with "love is stronger than gender, you can fall in love with person of any gender if you truly want!". Lol, this is not a problem for me. It is enough for me that they are a canonical couple. |
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| Wow. i really liked this episode. We got to see things from Sayaka's perspective. So she really is in love with Touko. Their teacher and that coffee shop owner are dating. I feel a bit sad for Sayaka though. She doesn't know anything and seems like she's falling in love more and more. |
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| I don't know where you people live, but lmao, I study japanese and in my class there are four people + my teacher. One straight woman, me and another girl (Both bi), and two gay guys (a classmate and my teacher) What is unreal is watching some anime/movies that feature 0 LGBT character AND in YagaKimi you have Yuu's friend, who is in love with a boy, Yuu's parents, and Yuu's sister. So the "OMG LGBT PEOPLE EVERYWHERE" comment is just dumb tbh Now, about this episode: That was really nice. I already knew that the coffee woman was LGBT because of the ending, but I didn't know about the teacher. That's pretty cool. And nice that we were able to see Sayaka being able to open up to someone. I thought she was a bitch last week, but now I can see she's just jealous of Koito and overwhelmed by her feelings towards Touko. Also sad past :( |
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| Rip Doujima-kun Nice to see some older lesbian relationships, it's just nice to see. Hopefully, this anime inspires other studios to stop adapting only-trashy shoujo/shounen-ai series and adapt a mix of both. |
BackstageMageNov 18, 2018 12:20 PM
  Don't worry about being lame now, you were always lame anyway!  |
kuorell said: smoledman said: This is the first 'serious' yuri show I've come across where it's not just the high school girl couple, but there's a nearby adult couple to provide an example. Obviously LGBT is still quite taboo in 'real' Japanese society and they seem to deal with it sensibly so far. Not sure about jap society, buy I'd suppose that it's healthy to disallow teachers to display they are homosexual, the problem is: same sex relationship is that much more approachable for kids/teens, that just not being intrinsically against it would pull them on "the easy route", as they are that much more used to communicate with same sex peers. (not sure if this happens due to upbringing/culture or because it's natural for humans to pick company that looks similar to themselves) P.s. Sayaka was obvious from the start. You have to remember that homophobia is almost originally a Western thing. |
Abusaeed said: You have to remember that homophobia is almost originally a Western thing. Homosexuality is so unheard of in Japan that they don't feel any reason to feel phobic. It's more of a curiosity item. Regarding Sayaka Saeki, that flashback to middle school when she was 'dating' the other girl and that girl dumped her at the end. I interpreted it like the other girl was not really lesbian but was 'practicing' with Saeki for dating boys. You do hear alot about 'college lesbians' in America it sounds similar. |
RobertBobert said: @ABDoesThings In any case, it’s hard for me to imagine that the same work could first say that homosexuality is an innate part of a person, but later use the plot with "love is stronger than gender, you can fall in love with person of any gender if you truly want!". The way I see it, is that it really varies from person. There are people who grew up preferring a same-sex relationship, and there are those who don't. For Sayaka, all signs point towards her being the former, but for a lot of people out there, they never even actively wanted a homosexual relationship, it's only after growing closer to a person that eventually convinced them into one. This is especially true considering, uh, manga spoilers. |
smoledman said: Abusaeed said: You have to remember that homophobia is almost originally a Western thing. Homosexuality is so unheard of in Japan that they don't feel any reason to feel phobic. It's more of a curiosity item. . Historically speaking, at's actually more common in Asiatic societies. Like in my own country there's legit well-known poems about homosexual relationships |
smoledman said: It's probably that she is lesbian, or at least bisexual but is so afraid of coming out of the closet she pretends not to be. Her friends in high school are probably all talking about boyfriends so her having a girlfriend would probably be "awkward" or something for her. Abusaeed said: You have to remember that homophobia is almost originally a Western thing. Homosexuality is so unheard of in Japan that they don't feel any reason to feel phobic. It's more of a curiosity item. Regarding Sayaka Saeki, that flashback to middle school when she was 'dating' the other girl and that girl dumped her at the end. I interpreted it like the other girl was not really lesbian but was 'practicing' with Saeki for dating boys. You do hear alot about 'college lesbians' in America it sounds similar. |
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Abusaeed said: Historically speaking, at's actually more common in Asiatic societies. Like in my own country there's legit well-known poems about homosexual relationships But also remember in Asian societies it's expected to be kept hidden and definitely not make into political hay. Whereas in America everything is made very political. |
DumpsterKing said: It's probably that she is lesbian, or at least bisexual but is so afraid of coming out of the closet she pretends not to be. Her friends in high school are probably all talking about boyfriends so her having a girlfriend would probably be "awkward" or something for her. True you don't make out with a girl for 2+ years if you aren't at least bisexual. But reality stares in the face - there is no real future in a society that expects you to grow up and be a nice housewife to a man and raise children. Especially in Japan, the shunning would be unbearable. |
| Sayaka's feelings for her middle school senpai was genuine, but her senpai did dump her in a rather harsh way. Was she using Sayaka to test what dating a girl would be like and then decided that she was making a mistake? Who knows, but it was still a douche move of her in that manner. Still, understanding more of Sayaka's position in this show was really interesting and fascinating. She obviously cares a lot for Touko and is happy with the status quo of their friendship as it is. I still think that something will happen that'll break this status quo, so if that does happen at some point later in the series, then I'll be definitely interested to see what happens next. Also, it was nice to see an adult lesbian couple too, involving the cafe owner, Miyako and the homeroom teacher, Hakozaki. The scene between Miyako and Sayaka was really well done, though. =) Another lovely moment was the scene between Touko and Yuu, calling each other by their first names, The reactions between the two were so different, but very funny at the same time. =P So yeah, this episode was great. Although I still think Sayaka's jealous-filled talkdown to Yuu last week was still something I didn't like her doing, but this episode did change my opinion of her slightly. She's in my good book, for now. =) |
smoledman said: DumpsterKing said: It's probably that she is lesbian, or at least bisexual but is so afraid of coming out of the closet she pretends not to be. Her friends in high school are probably all talking about boyfriends so her having a girlfriend would probably be "awkward" or something for her. True you don't make out with a girl for 2+ years if you aren't at least bisexual. But reality stares in the face - there is no real future in a society that expects you to grow up and be a nice housewife to a man and raise children. Especially in Japan, the shunning would be unbearable. You do not have to be lesbian or bisexual to have homosexual experience in your youth. Of course, it is foolish to say that all homosexuality is a “phase”, but this is also common, especially in Japan, with its relation to “friendship” between the youth of any gender. Not to mention such things as situational homosexuality. smoledman said: Abusaeed said: Historically speaking, at's actually more common in Asiatic societies. Like in my own country there's legit well-known poems about homosexual relationships But also remember in Asian societies it's expected to be kept hidden and definitely not make into political hay. Whereas in America everything is made very political. Again, these are slightly different things. For example, in ancient Greece, male homosexuality was perceived as idealized, the highest form of male friendship, which can be partially compared with the Japanese Class S, and in noble Europe, everyone did not care about your relationship with the same sex if you were married and had healthy offspring. At the same time, in Ottoman Turkey, as in the ancient world, you could meet sexual homosexual relationship as a “kind of sensual pleasures”, which was especially found in baths among men or in harems among women. It is not a matter of homophobia or tolerance, but of the fact that different cultures had not only a different view of homosexuality, but also its different interpretation in general. |
RobertBobertNov 18, 2018 4:19 PM
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| Great episode! I also read the manga leading up to the episode. It basically starts from Volume 3 Chapter 11-12. It's kinda short and it's not as fast compared to other volumes. I actually began to appreciate Sayaka. I already knew from Episode 1, we might get a love triangle between Yuu, Touko and Sayaka. Just because Sayaka has always been close with Touko and will eventually start developing feelings to her. In terms of interpretation. It's exactly the same as the manga. They only changed the order that it was told. Like Sayaka's past was shown during the cafe visit with the manager and Sayaka was reminiscing on what happened to her, after she asked the manager if she's dating Riko-sensei. Even the Anime added more dialogue like Sayaka ordering something before asking, compared to manga where she just went there to ask her directly. Some minute details, but I think the Anime did a much better job on adding and making the scene flow better. I love it! It's already hinted about Riko and Miyako. The camera keeps zooming on them and even Sayaka had a feeling they were dating, just how they were addressing each other. As for Yuri. Japan or in Asia in general. Homosexuality was always perceive differently. In the US, being homo means you are week and not man enough, they tend to look down upon you and even prescribed homosexuality as a form of "sickness". Japan's view is much more innocent. It just blooms(no pun intended) due to environment you grew up with as well as developing feelings. It's not look down upon and in fact, some people expect it already. I grew up with a couple of gay people and talking to them, how they experience it and why they love their partners. Honestly, they're just attracted to the same sex. Sometimes, it can't be controlled and it's just the emotions and feelings that leads them. That's why Touko can't stop loving Yuu. Pretty much she doesn't care if she has to cross the line. Because her feelings started growing on her the more she spends time with Yuu. I think it's a beautiful thing to witness. It's just a shame they're still a majority of people in the world who are against these type of relationship. And wouldn't hesitate on hurting or sometimes even killing them. Those are the type of people who are truly sick and vile. Anyways, there's an interlude before Chapter 13, but I want to see if they will animate the interlude in the next episode. Here's the cover of Volume 3 as well as extra panel's that wasn't animated at the end of each chapter unfortunately :\ They really should start putting this at the end of each episode. It's soo funny XD |
RobertBobert said: smoledman said: True you don't make out with a girl for 2+ years if you aren't at least bisexual. But reality stares in the face - there is no real future in a society that expects you to grow up and be a nice housewife to a man and raise children. Especially in Japan, the shunning would be unbearable. You do not have to be lesbian or bisexual to have a homosexual experience in your youth. Of course, it is foolish to say that all homosexuality is a “phase”, but this is also common, especially in Japan, with its relation to “friendship” between the youth of any gender. Not to mention such things as situational homosexuality. . I know that. It's just in this particular case it seems like the senpai is bi or lesbian because: 1. She asked Sayaka out and later called it 'a phase'. So at that time, she was attracted to girls. 2. She only broke up with Sayaka after entering high school and as said above, she probably felt some social pressure to stop that relationship. 3. The way she acts indicates that she knows she's spouting nonsense - as if she's trying to convince herself more than Sayaka. 4. Taking into account the themes and message of the manga, I think it's Nakatani's comments on the idea of a 'Class S' relationship - that it can be just as serious as a 'normal' relationship and denying your sexuality can hurt you and others. |
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RobertBobert said: @ABDoesThings In any case, it’s hard for me to imagine that the same work could first say that homosexuality is an innate part of a person, but later use the plot with "love is stronger than gender, you can fall in love with person of any gender if you truly want!". I'm not exactly sure where you got that idea from, so I'm just going to guess you're talking about how Yuu says she's trying to make herself fall in love with Touko. I think it's clear by this point that Yuu is an unreliable narrator of her feelings - she thinks she can't fall in love but, wants to fall in love and thinks Touko is her only chance at love despite having already been confessed to by someone else. She doesn't think she has romantic feelings due to her experience of them not matching with her expectations. She's not forcing herself to love, she's misinterpreting how she is falling in love. |
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| @DumpsterKing They kissed, this is not a Class S. relationship. Such a relationship ignores sexuality in any way, because Class S is tied around ai, pure love, not koi, passionate and romantic love. Romantic subplot at the end of the first season of Maria-sama Mitteru even tells about this. At the same time, Class S relationships are always considered serious, no matter what meaning you put into them. This is almost the idealization of bonds between two girls. Secondly, your interpretation of the "phase" suggests that all people who have similar experience are bisexual or lesbian. This is a logical error. If we don’t try to make a subjective analysis of her motivation, then we’ll just have a girl who decided to stop teenage lesbian relationships, because she thought that they don’t correspond to her orientation or moral character, and maybe both. |
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DumpsterKing said: I'm not exactly sure where you got that idea from, so I'm just going to guess you're talking about how Yuu says she's trying to make herself fall in love with Touko. I think it's clear by this point that Yuu is an unreliable narrator of her feelings - she thinks she can't fall in love but, wants to fall in love and thinks Touko is her only chance at love despite having already been confessed to by someone else. She doesn't think she has romantic feelings due to her experience of them not matching with her expectations. She's not forcing herself to love, she's misinterpreting how she is falling in love. Not main couple, in this quotation I discussed the people's interpretations of the bartender-teacher relationship. |
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RobertBobert said: @DumpsterKing They kissed, this is not a Class S. relationship. Such a relationship ignores sexuality in any way, because Class S is tied around ai, pure love, not koi, passionate and romantic love. Romantic subplot at the end of the first season of Maria-sama Mitteru even tells about this. At the same time, Class S relationships are always considered serious, no matter what meaning you put into them. This is almost the idealization of bonds between two girls. Secondly, your interpretation of the "phase" suggests that all people who have similar experience are bisexual or lesbian. This is a logical error. If we don’t try to make a subjective analysis of her motivation, then we’ll just have a girl who decided to stop teenage lesbian relationships, because she thought that they don’t correspond to her orientation or moral character, and maybe both. Sorry, misused Class S, meant to say a similar kind of temporary relationship. My interpretation of a 'phase' in this instance was linked to my later point that she acted as if she still wants to be in a relationship but, something has convinced her it isn't "right". I don't have enough evidence to make an objective analysis of her, so I'm just using my experience where a 'phase' (when referring to sexuality) is a curiosity to see if you are of a particular orientation and senpai does not act as if that is the case. You clearly know more about this than me though, so I won't argue that your interpretation is wrong - it just doesn't fit in with my experiences. |
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RobertBobert said: DumpsterKing said: I'm not exactly sure where you got that idea from, so I'm just going to guess you're talking about how Yuu says she's trying to make herself fall in love with Touko. I think it's clear by this point that Yuu is an unreliable narrator of her feelings - she thinks she can't fall in love but, wants to fall in love and thinks Touko is her only chance at love despite having already been confessed to by someone else. She doesn't think she has romantic feelings due to her experience of them not matching with her expectations. She's not forcing herself to love, she's misinterpreting how she is falling in love. Not main couple, in this quotation I discussed the people's interpretations of the bartender-teacher relationship. Ok, I interpreted that as she happened to fall in love with her because of who she is as a person, irrespective of gender. |
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| @DumpsterKing No, I do not know more than you. Even if we forget that every experience is subjective, I did not read the manga and only talk about my thoughts about it. |
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RobertBobert said: I meant LGBTQ+ in general. I'm probably not saying this right but, I guess that's one of the problems of trying to communicate by text.@DumpsterKing No, I do not know more than you. Even if we forget that every experience is subjective, I did not read the manga and only talk about my thoughts about it. |
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| Kinda forgot to comment on this, yet another very character driven episode. Appreciate the time they're putting in to develop these characters. Shame this is only 1 cour. ProofByColor said: Sayaka got a lot of development this episode. It's interesting because the thing Sayaka really likes about Touko is her 'fake' persona of being the perfect student council prez and all that, as well as 'being too busy' to accept anyone romantically. Of course this is what stops Sayaka from confessing to begin with, and it's the root of her jealousy of Yuu. At the same time, Touko reveals that she really how Sayaka is as it's what keeps her motivated to do her best, or as the viewers know -keeping up her act. The jealousy Sayaka feels is what I think will push her to confront Touko to some degree, and it's what I hope to see. We got a little bit of it this episode and I liked the power play of sorts by trying to call Yuu by her first name. It was slightly frustrating watching Yuu hold back everything interesting about Touko when being questioned by her friend about the play, so I'm hopeful Sayaka can break the shell some more. I can see some complaints about introducing 3 more gay people this week. I mean are you really surprised about Sayaka given how we've seen her act, and her feelings were developed before the show began. It's not like Citrus where every character we meet wanted to bang Mei. Plus having a mature lesbian/bi character that can give guidance/advice to the confused Sayaka would surely be very helpful to her, but it's also just a smart thing to do. With this Sayaka can make rational decisions and not cause unnecessary melodrama. Pretty much all I wanted to say is here. That Touko burn on Dojima-kun though, epic. XD |
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Jared93 said: Everyone is a lesbian xD You say that as if it's a problem :))) |
| Adult Yuri/lesbo....ohhhhh! ¬.¬ such maturity huh! 3/5. |
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| I don't get the criticism on how inconvenient or unrealistic having a lesbian couple nearby is. It's like... this happens? Lesbians exist, they engage in relationships, sometimes they are open enough about it for outsiders to notice. It's not like everybody in this series is attracted to the same sex, but some people are, and they can be noticed and talked to. If your suspension of disbelief is low enough to be affected by something so standard I don't know what are you doing watching this show. |
| I'm honestly rooting for Sayaka, but man I already know it's not gonna work out in her favor, so I've just gotta hope she can find someone else she loves as much as Nanami |
| “I love heroes, but I don't want to be one. Do you even know what a hero is!? For example, you have some meat. Pirates will feast on the meat, but the hero will distribute it among the people! I want to eat the meat!” - Monkey D. Luffy |
| Love triangle scenario has now appeared.. just waiting for Sayaka to explode when Touko and Yuu become closer and closer to each other. |
| It's nice that Sayaka found herself someone to open her heart to and talk freely. I'm starting to like her after hearing her. |
"At some point, I stopped hoping." |
| Lesbians, lesbians everywhere. Felt like a finale. It isn't. |
| Sayaka is so good at sensing other people's hidden relationships that it's scary. I sense some incoming lesbian love triangle drama. Absolutely love the violin soundtrack that plays when Sayaka found out about Miyako's secret. |
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| Sayaka got dumped in a pretty nasty way. Some people are just egoistic or don't care what happens when they pressure someone into a relationship, especially at that age. Pretty interesting episode again and I don't think it's unrealistic that there are 3 more lesbians at school/town, it's not like everyone around is homosexual too. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| The clip from this episode on twitter is what convinced me to watch this title, so I'm glad to finally see the coffee shop scene in context. Seeing LGBT adult couple in anime presented positively is very heartwarming. And after this episode I like Sayaka more too. I hate that we get a love triangle trope thanks to her, so I hope she will find another girl for herself, I really want to see her happy. Especially because as others noticed she doesn't love Touko as she is at all, only her facade, so she wouldn't be a good girlfriend for her anyway. At least now Sayaka knows that there are other gay people nearby who achieved happiness, and somehow confirmed that her feelings for girls aren't a "phase". |
| Boring episode. First one from this series that I didn't enjoy. |
Namiszon said: Boring episode. First one from this series that I didn't enjoy. What didn't you like about it? |
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DumpsterKing said: Namiszon said: Boring episode. First one from this series that I didn't enjoy. What didn't you like about it? I just didn't find Sayaka's storyline interesting. |
Steppenfuchs said: The clip from this episode on twitter is what convinced me to watch this title, so I'm glad to finally see the coffee shop scene in context. Seeing LGBT adult couple in anime presented positively is very heartwarming. And after this episode I like Sayaka more too. I hate that we get a love triangle trope thanks to her, so I hope she will find another girl for herself, I really want to see her happy. Especially because as others noticed she doesn't love Touko as she is at all, only her facade, so she wouldn't be a good girlfriend for her anyway. At least now Sayaka knows that there are other gay people nearby who achieved happiness, and somehow confirmed that her feelings for girls aren't a "phase". Interesting how you found it that way. I've always felt like Sayaka does love Touko as a whole package, but since she's reluctant on showing that she knows more due to obvious reasons, Touko interpreted that as only wanting her to appear perfect. It seemed to me more like a difference in understanding caused by the two's established distance/barrier. |
giraffemangome said: Steppenfuchs said: The clip from this episode on twitter is what convinced me to watch this title, so I'm glad to finally see the coffee shop scene in context. Seeing LGBT adult couple in anime presented positively is very heartwarming. And after this episode I like Sayaka more too. I hate that we get a love triangle trope thanks to her, so I hope she will find another girl for herself, I really want to see her happy. Especially because as others noticed she doesn't love Touko as she is at all, only her facade, so she wouldn't be a good girlfriend for her anyway. At least now Sayaka knows that there are other gay people nearby who achieved happiness, and somehow confirmed that her feelings for girls aren't a "phase". Interesting how you found it that way. I've always felt like Sayaka does love Touko as a whole package, but since she's reluctant on showing that she knows more due to obvious reasons, Touko interpreted that as only wanting her to appear perfect. It seemed to me more like a difference in understanding caused by the two's established distance/barrier. You may be right, I mean it's not like Sayaka appeared as shallow or overly demanding with her middle school girlfriend. Still, I would be afraid (if I were Touko : p) that after she slips and gets worse grades etc. Sayaka would abandon her. She loves her for the challenge she gives her. |
| Best episode until now, I am in love with Sayaka! Such a shame Nanami never noticed her like she did with Yuu...great surprise was the teacher and her great lover |
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| Sensei, I didn’t see that coming. |
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| For some reason I'm starting to dislike Sayaka, even though she is right to do what she does. Maybe it's just my inner hate of love triangle stories. Though I'm pretty sure Touko wouldn't requite her feelings. I'm still unsure what to feel about Touko and whether or not she really has feelings for Yuu or just pretending so she stays with Touko while she is her true self. |
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| Aw that ending was so cute. |
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| i kind of dislike sayaka but i also like her? i cant really tell as of now. |
| Yuri galore in this episode :3 pretty lovely development I must say, didn't directly see that teacher part in it, but it did had an important role in the mindset of Sayaka. Well let's see what's next! |
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