| He isn't even trans, he's just crossdresing to take over the school. |
| What is with all these replies? Transphobia is not to be acknowledged??? |
| It didn't come off as transphobic to me, Aozora seems more like a cross-dresser. |
| That's why I'm starting to love anime even more now, they don't bow down to any sort of snowflakes and they don't try to make everything political. When I read this pathetic post's title I thought you were going to whine about the Maeda scene when he crossdresses and Kasumi calls him a filthy pervert. That one is spicier, guess it went right under your "ImSoOffended" radar. |
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| Wow so many rude people. So i guess this is how people in mal are. When you don't agree with something there are better ways to convey your opinion. |
| Some of these replies are fucking hilarious but I do feel kind of bad for OP. Look, OP. Stop using buzzwords. What is "transphobic"? If you think that anytime a trans person is used as a butt of a joke, that is "transphobic" then the word has no meaning. Because it's OK to laugh at people. No group should have any special place. People get picked on, in perfectly friendly, not bullying ways, sometimes, for things that make them stand out. It's only offensive if you take it that way. Sure, there is serious discrimnation against trans people in the world. But that is a million miles away (literally and figuratively, Japan has long been a very gender-bending society) from this anime. All you're achieving with this post is riling people up by seeming to attack something they like. And their responses probably got you riled up too, I bet, no? Fix your persepctive, and please stop using meaningless buzzwords. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
YossaRedMage said: Some of these replies are fucking hilarious but I do feel kind of bad for OP. Look, OP. Stop using buzzwords. What is "transphobic"? If you think that anytime a trans person is used as a butt of a joke, that is "transphobic" then the word has no meaning. Because it's OK to laugh at people. No group should have any special place. People get picked on, in perfectly friendly, not bullying ways, sometimes, for things that make them stand out. It's only offensive if you take it that way. "In perfectly friendly, not bullying ways" holy shit Yossa, please think twice before saying fucked up stuff trying to sound woke. Nobody in this thread was ever saying that the show intended to bully trans people. What we are saying is that it mocks and can offend them by using a stereotype that has long been related to trans exclusion, and is still fairly common even in real life (like, "they hide a penis and are ready to sexually assault me" is pure TERF reasoning). If you want to discuss whether this show is at its core transphobic or not, or if the jokes are intended to be, we can speculate about the author's intent which we don't really know. Do that instead of trying to defend stereotypically negative portrayals of collectives on the basis that it's all friendly and in good faith because you just decided it is. |
jal90 said: YossaRedMage said: Some of these replies are fucking hilarious but I do feel kind of bad for OP. Look, OP. Stop using buzzwords. What is "transphobic"? If you think that anytime a trans person is used as a butt of a joke, that is "transphobic" then the word has no meaning. Because it's OK to laugh at people. No group should have any special place. People get picked on, in perfectly friendly, not bullying ways, sometimes, for things that make them stand out. It's only offensive if you take it that way. "In perfectly friendly, not bullying ways" holy shit Yossa, please think twice before saying fucked up stuff trying to sound woke. Nobody in this thread was ever saying that the show intended to bully trans people. What we are saying is that it mocks and can offend them by using a stereotype that has long been related to trans exclusion, and is still fairly common even in real life (like, "they hide a penis and are ready to sexually assault me" is pure TERF reasoning). If you want to discuss whether this show is at its core transphobic or not, or if the jokes are intended to be, we can speculate about the author's intent which we don't really know. Do that instead of trying to defend stereotypically negative portrayals of collectives on the basis that it's all friendly and in good faith because you just decided it is. 1. I think we have different definitions of "woke" because I don't think I was "trying to sound woke". I wasn't trying to sound anything. I was giving an honest assessment of the situation. 2. Color me surprised that you of all people would be the one to reply with indignation at the idea that maybe people are being too easily offended and need to take themselves less seriously. I'll leave it there for the ad hominins but honestly you fit the mold of the perpetually offended who reply to even reasonable criticism by doubling down on your offence-taking. It's a sad way to interact with the world. 3. Ok this is tricky to unpack, and I kind of feel like I'm wasting my time with you because you'll just twist my words again, but what the hell here we go. "Nobody in this thread was ever saying that the show intended to bully trans people." Including me. If someone thinks a show is being "transphobic" (what this thread is literally about) then they are suggesting it is in some way, without or without intent, acting as a (somewhat light) form of bullying. Again, I ask the question, what does "transphobic" mean? Because I get the impression you and OP consider it to mean any situation where a trans person is made fun of (which is a light form of bullying). Intent is irrelevant. When people use the phrase "transphovic" it carries weight. It implies a type of bullying. If you want it to not carry that weight. If you want the word to mean so little that it becomes a pointless word, then by all means keep using it for light friendly teasing, which is what it is in this show. The character is made out to sympathetic. We are meant to like them. It's murky but there's a definite distinction here. "What we are saying is that it mocks and can offend them..." So they feel bullied, right? Perhaps understandable, given it's tough to be trans in society and they must feel constantly discriminated against. I'm not unsympathetic to that. I know the statistics around trans suicide rates. However, I do not believe treating them different from other people, particularly in art, is the right way to go about it. If a someone can tease their friend about say, his height, in an anime, we think nothing of it. But if a trans person is teased, it's different? I get the reasoning, but it's dumb. The answer to inequality isn't inequality in the other direction. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| Really?! This anime is great then! |
| @YossaRedMage No Yossa, it can be transphobic while not being actively attempting to bully. You can be racist while not being actively attempting to harm other races. And in the context of a fiction and comedy, it is obviously not something that is actively targeted against the group and it's not something that means harm. With that much everybody here agrees. You are the one coming here to say that "transphobic" implies "bullying". We all know what bullying is and it's certainly not "showing hatred, fear, discomfort or harboring negative feelings towards a collective", it's a whole different thing. If you step further and then come back to say that my use of the word is pointless, that is really on you. On the other hand, I will not tell you what kind of stereotype you fit in because I don't want to end this discussion with pointless namecalling, and I suggest you to not do so. But certainly observing a joke that portrays negative stereotypes in either "they intended to harm and be mean" or "they were just cool and friendly" is a very limited reasoning and doesn't take into account that, in fact, the comedy of Asobi Asobase may just be socially and culturally insensitive, and that means that trans people get a negative portrayal that is not accurately weighed by the show's intent to make its audience laugh at the trope. If you read the thread you find that calling these jokes transphobic does not even mean that the author is. Perhaps the author isn't, as said before, it may even be a trans person because I think we don't know anything about their gender. And I'm glad that you are aware of the issues of trans people in real life, but honestly I think that observing fiction and comedy in such a separate layer from reality is too convenient. Asobi Asobase wasn't made in a vacuum, it was made observing, interpreting and inserting ideas and thoughts about elements of reality. So if you want we can try to speculate about the intent of the mangaka. Do you find Aozora a sympathetic character? Cool. I'm quite mixed about that myself, most of the time the character is just observed as that foreign stalking force, like a threat, and the couple times she is highlighted more we don't really get to know her emotionally. Maybe that is more than enough for a character in a gag show, but I don't really find any traceable sympathy towards the character. Maybe you did. |
| Both the anime and manga are labelled as blue comedy, it is supposed to be indelicate in several topics, however the "transphobia" just triggered you because it is maybe a topic you have a particular interest. Some other indelicate topics are: the teacher tasting Olivia's "piss"; the "Lord of Pastimers" is a gyaru, smart, but hinted as interested in sex; robot Olivia proficient English curses and talks about having "lots of sex"; Kasumi's body being oversexualised; Olivia's brother being a fat American; to name a few just on the anime - and I particularly don't care at all. That's comedy, if you don't have the stomach for it, don't watch, but don't be a party popper for people that enjoy this anime/manga, go watch something else. BTW just remember, there is probably something that you think is funny that someone else will be offended, that's comedy and that's life, you can't please everyone. |
| Anime vs Snowflakes will always be a funny thing to watch If you feel personally attacked by the jokes made towards Aozora, then you need to seriously work on yourself Apparently, laughing at things people can't change about themselves is something really bad Ok, but then, why don't noone gets triggered when Olivia is mocked for her strong body odors ? When Kasumi struggles in her clothes due to her breasts size ? When a baby assaults the three girls ? When they show sex dolls ? When they depict a girl with heavy makeup as a monstruosity ? When Olivia's brother has clearly immoral views towards young teens ? If you're only complaining about "transphobia" in this anime but not this kind of scenes, then you're just hypocritical, selfish and self-centered snowflakes brats (alongside being pure morons, of course) |
| > Imagine thinking traps are trans |
  ♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
Radnitzky1890 said: Nice how both sides are acting pretty retarded in this thread. Feels great to be a centrist chad this time As the one year anniversary of this post of yours is drawing closer, I'd like to take the opportunity to remind you of this take you had and hope it's humiliating enough to keep you up at night. It certainly would for me if I was that unapologetic about not having any brain cells. |
 |
Auron_ said: Radnitzky1890 said: Nice how both sides are acting pretty retarded in this thread. Feels great to be a centrist chad this time As the one year anniversary of this post of yours is drawing closer, I'd like to take the opportunity to remind you of this take you had and hope it's humiliating enough to keep you up at night. It certainly would for me if I was that unapologetic about not having any brain cells. Nah, it still feels pretty great to have a brain. Have a good day! |
Kamey said: Auron_ said: As the one year anniversary of this post of yours is drawing closer, I'd like to take the opportunity to remind you of this take you had and hope it's humiliating enough to keep you up at night. It certainly would for me if I was that unapologetic about not having any brain cells. Why? Because some people see politics as a bit more complex as just left and right? Realizing that arguments from all kind of political positions make sense. (Extremists can fuck right off.) And with that realizing that one is actually pretty much in the center? (With a slight sway of course.) Have you heard of the "middle ground fallacy" my friend? It's flabbergasting to me that you lot are genuinely believing that in any given argument both sides must've had some point, like lmao how much of an intellectual failure do you have to be to so consistently fence-sit, mistaking lack of convictions as prudence or whatever the fuck you guys are telling one another while you jerk each other off. Realizing that arguments from all kind of political positions make sense. Okay fam go and have your ethno-state after having abolished private property. Oh and be extra mindful as to not violate the NAP, wouldn't want the night-watchman state put you in gulags now would we? You're a joke. The fact that you had to scavenge my profile comments to find something to get back at me is just sad. |
|
Kamey said: Auron_ said: Have you heard of the "middle ground fallacy" my friend? It's flabbergasting to me that you lot are genuinely believing that in any given argument both sides must've had some point, like lmao how much of an intellectual failure do you have to be to so consistently fence-sit, mistaking lack of convictions as prudence or whatever the fuck you guys are telling one another while you jerk each other off. Okay fam go and have your ethno-state after having abolished private property. Oh and be extra mindful as to not violate the NAP, wouldn't want the night-watchman state put you in gulags now would we? You're a joke. The fact that you had to scavenge my profile comments to find something to get back at me is just sad. Just what I expected from you. You americans are really a sad people. I only feel extreme pity towards you. I never said that both positions are "always" right. Learn to read, dude. "Scavenge". I was one minute on your profile because I couldn't believe you'd like the most shit character from Psycho Pass and Destiny got mentioned in literally the first comment. "Gulags" and "compulsory acquisition" of property is what happens when you're part of a extreme political society mate. Not when you try to finde a middleground. How blinded are you? Constantly circlejerking about some boogeyman. And as soon as someone doesn't agree with you he's either a "nazi" or a "communist". Fuck off with that shit. I love the tacit assumption that if you have actual political stances then you're a low-IQ American pffhahaha grow the fuck up mate. Okay shit you're not doing this on purpose are you? I trust you're intelligent enough to know what political positions mean, and that extremist positions are also political positions. Now let that sink in for a moment, and look at your statement once again. Dw I'll highlight the relevant part to walk you through this. Realizing that arguments from all kind of political positions make sense. Now you could either recollect your thoughts and contemplate on the implications of your words, or you could choose to embarrass yourself further. I mean you are rational agent aren't you, suit yourself. |
|
| Why the hell are there so many bigoted ass-backwards hateful fuckwads in the anime community... |
| Aozora is a trap, not a transexual wtf? That western label trash doesn't apply to anime. When did it ever mention that? Go stick to watching your filthy American dramas or whatever the f loves to label people and genders. Lol. |
| It's just your over-sensitive ass. Don't worry. What a moron, complaining about a joke/gag in a comedy show. You're one of those hecklers at a stand special who can't take a joke so you have to ruin it for everybody. |
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| I don't think the creators were trying to be transphobic on purpose. It's kinda like how minstrel shows were once socially accepted and people just thought racism was funny. The problem why Aozora's character is that it perpetuates the false belief that transwomen are actually cross-dressing males trying to infiltrate female spaces. It's the same argument TERFs use to try to keep transwomen from accessing women's restrooms. It's this portrayal of transpeople as a threat and the lengths gone to expose them that is harmful. (Edit: OK, so I just got around to watching Episode 10 and yikes, that whole segment about was so... inappropriate? Like, I get it, it's supposed to be a dumb skit, but I think we can do better than this.) With all that being said, I would not blame the creators of the show for any of this. This is more a reflection of society's understanding of transpeople. These stereotypes exist because most people have never met a transperson or are even aware that transpeople exist. So I would say this comes from a place of ignorance rather than malice. Now, does this ruin the show? Well... it's one of those things that once you notice it it's kinda hard to ignore. It's unfortunate, like that super racist stereotypical Japanese character from Breakfast at Tiffany's. Sometimes it's hard to see why something can be offensive when you're not the butt of the joke. But hopefully we will see less of this in the future. |
dirty_pcNov 16, 2020 4:56 PM
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