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#1
Nov 13, 2018 5:25 PM
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I'm on episode 10 currently, and I can't help being annoyed by all the jokes about Aozora, more particularly, her gender and the general portrayal of her as a trans character. Can't help but see it as anything but transphobic. Curious to see what others think of this! (Please no trap jokes, it's not necessary or funny)
 
#2
Nov 13, 2018 5:26 PM

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Moral of story, HXH is Great
 
#3
Nov 13, 2018 5:50 PM

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Its anime. If it doesn't conform to your standards, then don't watch it.
 
#4
Nov 13, 2018 5:51 PM

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never watch something like Baka to Test then

 
#5
Nov 14, 2018 12:26 PM
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Move over, comedy. We have a new word, it's "phobic" and it's going to rule society. Fun is dead.

Fuck off.
 
#6
Nov 14, 2018 1:22 PM
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This argument has been done to death ever since the anime's airing.

Yes it's transphobic.

No, that doesn't necessarily mean it's instantly "bad", or even "not funny". Some transphobic things can be funny. You can criticize something, acknowledge a flaw in it, and still like it. And, well, if you don't like it you can appreciate its other qualities.

You also have to remember these are children, and children are still navigating their social world and they'll say some insensitive things along the way. That's just how children are.
 
#7
Nov 14, 2018 1:40 PM

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it isn't just you i'm transphobic too
 
#8
Nov 14, 2018 1:41 PM

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I think the point was that the main characters didn't necessarily know Aozora may or may not be trans. From their perspective, they were just surprised at the possibility of Aozora being a guy. At least that's how I interpreted it. But I could definitely see it being transphobic.





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#9
Nov 15, 2018 2:42 AM

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It is transphobic, yes.

Now, how much does that affect you or even detracts from your enjoyment (the show has many other instances of comedy) is up to you. But it has jokes that are classic and blatant trans panic.

Withoutaname said:
This argument has been done to death ever since the anime's airing.

Yes it's transphobic.

No, that doesn't necessarily mean it's instantly "bad", or even "not funny". Some transphobic things can be funny. You can criticize something, acknowledge a flaw in it, and still like it. And, well, if you don't like it you can appreciate its other qualities.

You also have to remember these are children, and children are still navigating their social world and they'll say some insensitive things along the way. That's just how children are.

Basically this except I'm not 100% sure about justifying the show for having children as MCs; if anything I'm concerned about the show using that as an excuse. Either way and regardless, it is still very good to me.
 
Nov 15, 2018 8:12 AM

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It's not particularly transphobic if the anime makes fun of every trope and group of people equally. More than likely the author is just a cynical person with a wild sense of humor overall.
 
Nov 15, 2018 4:14 PM

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Germs_N_Spices said:
It's not particularly transphobic if the anime makes fun of every trope and group of people equally. More than likely the author is just a cynical person with a wild sense of humor overall.

Trans panic jokes are very common already, that's the problem and why I can't buy this line of thinking. If the show really wanted to do something different with these jokes it would not have just played them straight. It seems to me like it just chose the safe and beaten path for laughs here.
 
Nov 15, 2018 4:56 PM

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I would argue that they're middle school girls in Japan and it doesn't make sense for them to be "woke."
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Nov 19, 2018 4:19 AM

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CatSoul said:
I would argue that they're middle school girls in Japan and it doesn't make sense for them to be "woke."

Like if it make any sense at all to be "woke", whathever the hell it means lmao.
 
Nov 21, 2018 5:35 AM

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Yeah it is and i like that
And Japan doesn't support trans people lol
 
Nov 21, 2018 5:50 AM

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Are you serious? Of course it's not. Wtf?
 
Nov 21, 2018 5:58 AM

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What? Japan is not being harassed by SJWs.
Modified by Nurguburu, Nov 21, 2018 6:01 AM
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Dec 9, 2018 7:36 PM

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Stop culturally appropriating Japan OP it's an all-girl's school. If you don't understand Japanese comedy the least u could do is not be culturally insensitive. This medium is obviously not meant for you.

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Dec 9, 2018 8:01 PM

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JJH_ said:
Move over, comedy. We have a new word, it's "phobic" and it's going to rule society. Fun is dead.

Fuck off.


Everything is one kind of phobic or another these days-SHIT!!!!!
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Dec 10, 2018 8:31 AM
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Sure go ahead.

This thing has truly become a buzzword.
 
Dec 17, 2018 3:58 PM
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This thread stinks of SJW-trash.
 
Dec 17, 2018 8:16 PM
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Marxist thread detected.
 
Dec 24, 2018 7:56 PM
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.........Even here. Fuck.
 
Jan 4, 10:15 PM

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But the question still remains, is Aozora a boy or a girl?
I think she's a girl because it's an all girls school, you can't fake your way into it.
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beyond the main focus, I don't think
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Jan 7, 5:01 AM
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As an Asian, I don't see it as transphobic and it's never confirmed that Aozora is a trans character.

It was hinted that Aozora views himself as a boy on several occassions, seeing how he often lumps the girls together. He probably crossdresses for reasons. You can't assume every crossdressing character is a trans.

I've seen a lot of gender bender series and it's a common trope for a character to crossdress as the opposite gender to infiltrate into an all girl/boy school.

P/S: Please stop SJW-ing and looking too much into everything smh. Asobi Asobase is an excellent comedy anime and the author probably wrote the jokes without any deeper meaning. The fun is taken away when you start mixing it with rl social issues.
Modified by ChokoNae, Jan 7, 6:20 AM
 
Jan 7, 5:21 AM
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I think that it doesn't really matter, whether it is or not. To be honest, it didn't even occur to me when I was watching the show. It's clear that I'm not a US person that looks for something phobic in everything. It's classical type of comedy, somewhat overplayed, but still good. I think it's perfectly fine to make fun of anything and everything, as long as it's done in moderation and within reason. In this case I don't see a problem.

If we look at the world in a way that nothing must be found disrespectful or hurtful by anyone, there will no comedy left. And that would be a loss. If it offends you, stop watching it or deal with it. If I was complaining about everything that offended me, I would have no time for anything else. Thus I choose not to be offended. It's as simple as that, and it makes the world much better place.
Modified by MrZawa, Jan 7, 5:31 AM
 
Jan 7, 5:28 AM
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Inuchiyo said:
Stop culturally appropriating Japan OP it's an all-girl's school. If you don't understand Japanese comedy the least u could do is not be culturally insensitive. This medium is obviously not meant for you.


Trans people and Japanese aren't mutually exclusive. Pretending otherwise proves either ignorance or just lack of information. I never claimed to not understand the humor, just questioned whether or not it was harmful to trans people. (Spoiler alert, it is)

Also, I think its ridiculous to claim a medium isn't for me because I critisize it.
 
Jan 7, 5:31 AM
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CatSoul said:
I would argue that they're middle school girls in Japan and it doesn't make sense for them to be "woke."

My criticism is more over the writing than the characters. Middle school girls not understanding and finding it confusing and funny is entirely normal.
 
Jan 7, 8:57 PM

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Op you didn't criticize anything, it was how you looked at the show's comedy. Aozora as a character isn't a mistake and it doesn't make the show objectively any worse. It's comedy and within the context of the show.
Also pls don't mention me while suggesting I'm ignorant while not even knowing I was mocking you in my post. The fact you question whether a joke like that is harmful means you actually don't understand Japanese humour when it comes to stuff like traps, which is why I jokingly said this medium isn't for you. I didn't specifically say comedy but I'll clarify that soz. The fact that you have to make a post questioning possible transphobic materials means you are new. I suggest you stay away from pure comedy anime all together, esp if it looks like ur gunna get triggered. Go watch some futa instead.
I hope you get my message the 2nd time.

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Jan 21, 12:46 AM

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If you find that transphobic then you are transphobic
 
Jan 21, 3:03 AM

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Inuchiyo said:
Op you didn't criticize anything, it was how you looked at the show's comedy. Aozora as a character isn't a mistake and it doesn't make the show objectively any worse. It's comedy and within the context of the show.
Also pls don't mention me while suggesting I'm ignorant while not even knowing I was mocking you in my post. The fact you question whether a joke like that is harmful means you actually don't understand Japanese humour when it comes to stuff like traps, which is why I jokingly said this medium isn't for you. I didn't specifically say comedy but I'll clarify that soz. The fact that you have to make a post questioning possible transphobic materials means you are new. I suggest you stay away from pure comedy anime all together, esp if it looks like ur gunna get triggered. Go watch some futa instead.
I hope you get my message the 2nd time.

So instead of being constructive and offer your views that may clash with OP's, you chose to take the show and decide the only right way to interpret it, which is of course yours.

Also, daily reminder that comedy is not some special genre that exists in a vacuum. No one here ever said that the purpose of these scenes wasn't to make laugh.
Modified by jal90, Jan 21, 3:59 AM
 
Jan 21, 11:03 AM

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Transphobic? Lol, what the fuck. They were just scared of the fact that there can be a boy in the school pretending to be a girl and that's exactly what Auzora does. He doesn't even think of himself as a girl "Girls are so foolish".
 
Jan 21, 11:08 AM

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jal90 said:
Inuchiyo said:
Op you didn't criticize anything, it was how you looked at the show's comedy. Aozora as a character isn't a mistake and it doesn't make the show objectively any worse. It's comedy and within the context of the show.
Also pls don't mention me while suggesting I'm ignorant while not even knowing I was mocking you in my post. The fact you question whether a joke like that is harmful means you actually don't understand Japanese humour when it comes to stuff like traps, which is why I jokingly said this medium isn't for you. I didn't specifically say comedy but I'll clarify that soz. The fact that you have to make a post questioning possible transphobic materials means you are new. I suggest you stay away from pure comedy anime all together, esp if it looks like ur gunna get triggered. Go watch some futa instead.
I hope you get my message the 2nd time.

So instead of being constructive and offer your views that may clash with OP's, you chose to take the show and decide the only right way to interpret it, which is of course yours.

Also, daily reminder that comedy is not some special genre that exists in a vacuum. No one here ever said that the purpose of these scenes wasn't to make laugh.


Interpreting the show as transphobic IS objectively wrong.
 
Jan 21, 11:38 AM

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TsukuyomiREKT said:
jal90 said:

So instead of being constructive and offer your views that may clash with OP's, you chose to take the show and decide the only right way to interpret it, which is of course yours.

Also, daily reminder that comedy is not some special genre that exists in a vacuum. No one here ever said that the purpose of these scenes wasn't to make laugh.


Interpreting the show as transphobic IS objectively wrong.

So this is another one of your one-liners. Nice to meet you again.
 
Jan 21, 11:41 AM

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jal90 said:
TsukuyomiREKT said:


Interpreting the show as transphobic IS objectively wrong.

So this is another one of your one-liners. Nice to meet you again.


Nope, it's just another fact that you can't handle.
 
Jan 21, 12:19 PM

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TsukuyomiREKT said:
jal90 said:

So this is another one of your one-liners. Nice to meet you again.


Nope, it's just another fact that you can't handle.

Quite bold of you to believe that what you have to say in the matter is relevant enough to appear in my notifications.
 
Jan 21, 12:39 PM

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jal90 said:
TsukuyomiREKT said:


Nope, it's just another fact that you can't handle.

Quite bold of you to believe that what you have to say in the matter is relevant enough to appear in my notifications.


There's a block feature for a reason.
 
Jan 21, 12:50 PM

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TsukuyomiREKT said:
jal90 said:

Quite bold of you to believe that what you have to say in the matter is relevant enough to appear in my notifications.


There's a block feature for a reason.

Do you want me to ignore you? But that would deprive you from the attention you need. Are you sure?
 
Jan 21, 7:37 PM
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This thread is actually depressing to read. Transphobic? You mean to say that the developers of this anime/manga genuinely hate trans people just because of a few jokes? When it comes to the realm of comedy, you've gotta realize that absolutely NOTHING should be off limits, because ultimately, it's entirely subjective. Just because you didn't find a joke funny, it doesn't mean that the person who made the joke is bad for making it.

You seem open minded and respectable though, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not make any assumptions about who you are as a person, but take my advice as you will. Stop looking for reasons to be offended and just enjoy the ride, I guarantee you'll be so much happier.

 
Jan 21, 7:52 PM

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Phobia truly lost it's meaning during 2017-18
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Jan 22, 5:30 AM

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Crackersauce said:
This thread is actually depressing to read. Transphobic? You mean to say that the developers of this anime/manga genuinely hate trans people just because of a few jokes? When it comes to the realm of comedy, you've gotta realize that absolutely NOTHING should be off limits, because ultimately, it's entirely subjective. Just because you didn't find a joke funny, it doesn't mean that the person who made the joke is bad for making it.

You seem open minded and respectable though, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not make any assumptions about who you are as a person, but take my advice as you will. Stop looking for reasons to be offended and just enjoy the ride, I guarantee you'll be so much happier.


No, it's not that. If I tell a racist joke, it doesn't mean I'm racist, but the joke is. This talk is about the content, maybe the author is very trans-inclusive in real life, heck, maybe the author is trans, I don't know.

The main problem with this specific content is that in contrast to other instances of comedy it feels like it's merely playing the trope. There is not a sense of irony (or I don't notice it at least), it's just playing straight the "girl who is actually a male in disguise and tries to take advantage of girls" trope, which kind of sucks, really. I wouldn't even call that transphobic if it didn't turn that this is how trans people have been seen normatively for a long while, as people who try to trick others and appear the other gender for whatever dishonest reason.

Another thing that is just absurd is assuming that just because you don't like certain jokes and the tone in certain scene you are not enjoying a comedy. Asobi Asobase is a very good show. It is really well-crafted, the jokes have excellent pacing and execution and I have nothing but praise for the work it has behind (hey, if I'm watching the snorefest that Radiant is in the first place is because the director and studio are the ones who made this). And it makes me laugh a lot. There is just a portion of it I don't like.
 
Jan 22, 5:54 AM
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jal90 said:
Crackersauce said:
This thread is actually depressing to read. Transphobic? You mean to say that the developers of this anime/manga genuinely hate trans people just because of a few jokes? When it comes to the realm of comedy, you've gotta realize that absolutely NOTHING should be off limits, because ultimately, it's entirely subjective. Just because you didn't find a joke funny, it doesn't mean that the person who made the joke is bad for making it.

You seem open minded and respectable though, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not make any assumptions about who you are as a person, but take my advice as you will. Stop looking for reasons to be offended and just enjoy the ride, I guarantee you'll be so much happier.


No, it's not that. If I tell a racist joke, it doesn't mean I'm racist, but the joke is. This talk is about the content, maybe the author is very trans-inclusive in real life, heck, maybe the author is trans, I don't know.

The main problem with this specific content is that in contrast to other instances of comedy it feels like it's merely playing the trope. There is not a sense of irony (or I don't notice it at least), it's just playing straight the "girl who is actually a male in disguise and tries to take advantage of girls" trope, which kind of sucks, really. I wouldn't even call that transphobic if it didn't turn that this is how trans people have been seen normatively for a long while, as people who try to trick others and appear the other gender for whatever dishonest reason.

Another thing that is just absurd is assuming that just because you don't like certain jokes and the tone in certain scene you are not enjoying a comedy. Asobi Asobase is a very good show. It is really well-crafted, the jokes have excellent pacing and execution and I have nothing but praise for the work it has behind (hey, if I'm watching the snorefest that Radiant is in the first place is because the director and studio are the ones who made this). And it makes me laugh a lot. There is just a portion of it I don't like.


Hm, I can understand the main points you're making, especially how the joke itself played on the stereotypical trope and therefore lost a lot of its potential. However, that being said, I can't help but think that it's debatable that you create that layer of disconnect between the person making the joke, and the joke itself. I think it's unlikely that you'd find many people who are willing to call the joke 'transphobic', but not the person who made the joke; more often that not, the two are usually blurred together, and only then do I have a problem with it. Of course you would be a humble exception to this case, because you are definitely able to realize the disconnect between the two.

That's the main reason why I think the realm of comedy should have no limits, I am willing to go as far to say that an 'offensive' joke shouldn't exist, because once again, it's a joke and should never be taken seriously and therefore should never elicit the response of 'offense'. When you add meaningless buzzwords to comedy such as 'racist', 'transphobic' or 'sexist', it is very easy to fall down the slope of blurring the line between the joke and the person itself ("s/he made a transphobic joke, so s/he's also transphobic!" as an example). Once this happens, an entirely new can of worms is opened, which only has the effect of limiting the joys of comedy.

However that's just my opinion, and yours is still respectable nonetheless.
 
Jan 22, 6:44 AM
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tittycommittee said:
I'm on episode 10 currently, and I can't help being annoyed by all the jokes about Aozora, more particularly, her gender and the general portrayal of her as a trans character. Can't help but see it as anything but transphobic. Curious to see what others think of this! (Please no trap jokes, it's not necessary or funny)

What I think is that, the problem isn't with the joke or Aozora, but with you. It can be either a girl playing with others or a guy crossdressing. You yourself assumed he/she is trans and found some deeper meaning in a simple joke that annoyed you.
Tbh I don't see any reasons to even think Aozora is transsexual. Vast majority of characters of this type in anime are traps or tomboys, which, as discussed many times on these forums, have nothing to do with trans people.

Crackersauce said:
That's the main reason why I think the realm of comedy should have no limits, I am willing to go as far to say that an 'offensive' joke shouldn't exist, because once again, it's a joke and should never be taken seriously and therefore should never elicit the response of 'offense'. When you add meaningless buzzwords to comedy such as 'racist', 'transphobic' or 'sexist', it is very easy to fall down the slope of blurring the line between the joke and the person itself ("s/he made a transphobic joke, so s/he's also transphobic!" as an example). Once this happens, an entirely new can of worms is opened, which only has the effect of limiting the joys of comedy.

Exactly this.
Modified by Yukikaze_sama, Jan 22, 6:50 AM
 
Jan 22, 11:28 AM

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Crackersauce said:
jal90 said:

No, it's not that. If I tell a racist joke, it doesn't mean I'm racist, but the joke is. This talk is about the content, maybe the author is very trans-inclusive in real life, heck, maybe the author is trans, I don't know.

The main problem with this specific content is that in contrast to other instances of comedy it feels like it's merely playing the trope. There is not a sense of irony (or I don't notice it at least), it's just playing straight the "girl who is actually a male in disguise and tries to take advantage of girls" trope, which kind of sucks, really. I wouldn't even call that transphobic if it didn't turn that this is how trans people have been seen normatively for a long while, as people who try to trick others and appear the other gender for whatever dishonest reason.

Another thing that is just absurd is assuming that just because you don't like certain jokes and the tone in certain scene you are not enjoying a comedy. Asobi Asobase is a very good show. It is really well-crafted, the jokes have excellent pacing and execution and I have nothing but praise for the work it has behind (hey, if I'm watching the snorefest that Radiant is in the first place is because the director and studio are the ones who made this). And it makes me laugh a lot. There is just a portion of it I don't like.


Hm, I can understand the main points you're making, especially how the joke itself played on the stereotypical trope and therefore lost a lot of its potential. However, that being said, I can't help but think that it's debatable that you create that layer of disconnect between the person making the joke, and the joke itself. I think it's unlikely that you'd find many people who are willing to call the joke 'transphobic', but not the person who made the joke; more often that not, the two are usually blurred together, and only then do I have a problem with it. Of course you would be a humble exception to this case, because you are definitely able to realize the disconnect between the two.

That's the main reason why I think the realm of comedy should have no limits, I am willing to go as far to say that an 'offensive' joke shouldn't exist, because once again, it's a joke and should never be taken seriously and therefore should never elicit the response of 'offense'. When you add meaningless buzzwords to comedy such as 'racist', 'transphobic' or 'sexist', it is very easy to fall down the slope of blurring the line between the joke and the person itself ("s/he made a transphobic joke, so s/he's also transphobic!" as an example). Once this happens, an entirely new can of worms is opened, which only has the effect of limiting the joys of comedy.

However that's just my opinion, and yours is still respectable nonetheless.

Thanks for understanding! I understand your stance as well. About this whole thing of separating intent and content... I'm not that much of a fan of applying "death of the author" but when I just don't know anything about the author I can't do anything except let the work speak by itself. There's a discussion right now at AD related to this topic, it's something I haven't quite made up my mind about and I know it's quite troubling for analysis.

And yeah I can agree that we use terms as buzzwords but that's why there's discussion to be had over whether this show is transphobic or not. The term transphobic has a certain meaning, so the debate is whether this series adjusts to that meaning or not.

Terkhev said:
What I think is that, the problem isn't with the joke or Aozora, but with you. It can be either a girl playing with others or a guy crossdressing. You yourself assumed he/she is trans and found some deeper meaning in a simple joke that annoyed you.
Tbh I don't see any reasons to even think Aozora is transsexual. Vast majority of characters of this type in anime are traps or tomboys, which, as discussed many times on these forums, have nothing to do with trans people.

Seen this several times and I don't think it's convincing at all as an argument. I doubt the authors have reflected on it so much and so effectively that they can now perfectly differentiate between a fictional trope and the traditional misrepresentation that has lead to this fictional trope to start with. Call me sceptical, but when they are just parroting the same stereotype that had at its core the idea that people who don't conform to gender normativity are trying to "trap" others, the issue doesn't just disappear all of a sudden. And I'm not even getting into how this idea permeates to real life people because it's out of the scope of fiction and this show in specific, but you know.

Aozora is probably just a crossdressing guy, probably a trans girl or maybe a cis girl. That's not the point here. The joke is still there, it is "we suspect that this character has a penis and wants to infiltrate in a female school and fool everyone".
 
Jan 23, 12:37 PM

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Botan-Chan45 said:
Phobia truly lost it's meaning during 2017-18
I think this has more to do with you know understanding how words work.
 
Feb 2, 11:19 PM

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What even is this thread?
 
Feb 3, 4:10 PM
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That just a comedy
 
May 4, 3:28 PM
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The good thing about Japanese Anime is they dont give a flying fuck about SJW Americans and their feelings, they figure if you dont like it get lost cause these anime are made for Japanese audience, we westerns just so happen to get to watch them.
 
May 19, 12:14 PM

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Nice how both sides are acting pretty retarded in this thread. Feels great to be a centrist chad this time
 
May 20, 4:27 AM

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I still remember when this community didn't have this shit going on regarding traps... Nothing is even okay anymore huh
I always choose the pizza
 
May 29, 12:11 AM
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Who fucking cares you cuck
 
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