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What's the APPEAL of the tsundere-beats-guy- for-no-reason cliche?

#1
Oct 3, 2018 6:11 PM

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You guys know what I'm talking about: those scenes where guy accidentally stumbles on a naked girl, or says something harmless, and gets the shit beaten out of him by the abusive tsundere. My question is: Why do people like this cliche?

It can't be that most otaku who like this are masochists: actual S&M involves the sadist beating up the masochist with consent.

Like okay, I get it, most Japanese guys (for whatever reason) like weak-willed anime girls "pure" anime girls...but why do they like anime girls that would beat the shit out of them for almost no justified reason?
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#2
Oct 3, 2018 6:21 PM

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It's not the beating part that guys like, its when they finally break out of their shell. You see this character as this violent person, until MC finally does something to gain their trust. Makes them 10x more kawaii cause her personality and how you perceive her goes a complete 180.

If we look at Chitoge from Nisekoi, she's violent, and has the strength of a gorilla, but she has her damn cute moments that's emphasized because you don't necessarily expect it.
 
#3
Oct 3, 2018 6:26 PM

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People watch for the dere moments that eventually happen.
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#4
Oct 3, 2018 6:30 PM

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It's not the beating itself that is arousing, but the idea that all the abuse is only a means to hide her "true feelings" or other personal problems, and that the girl is secretly cute and lovable. The audience already knows this, and then it turns into a funny demonstration of hidden affection instead of a case of violent assault. The yandere works in a similar way, only with the addition of body bags.

However, this idea that it is somehow ok and "cute" for girls to abuse boys is older than memory. Charles M. Schulz himself once said it's funny when girls do that to boys, but wrong when done the other way around (thus why one of Lucy's main aspirations is to torment Charlie Brown while he never really stands up to her). So it's not really an "otaku" thing, just a general sexist stereotype.

Anyway, most of these 'deres types are actually just manic pixie dream girls, so it makes sense that guys like them.
Modified by Satyr_icon, Oct 3, 2018 6:34 PM
 
#5
Oct 3, 2018 6:30 PM

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Walking in on a girl changing still warrants some repercussions, because in more cases than not, the male characters just barge in without knocking. Even if the door isn't locked, common sense dictates you should still knock just in case out of politeness. So I don't blame girls getting violent in those situations.
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#6
Oct 3, 2018 6:40 PM
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It's a kink. And I'm assuming many creators of these characters believe woman are actually like this (especially the most obnoxious and less reasonable).
 
#7
Oct 3, 2018 6:43 PM

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-Mahesvara said:
Walking in on a girl changing still warrants some repercussions, because in more cases than not, the male characters just barge in without knocking. Even if the door isn't locked, common sense dictates you should still knock just in case out of politeness. So I don't blame girls getting violent in those situations.


bless those mcs for their sacrifices so we can get the fan service shot
 
#8
Oct 3, 2018 6:46 PM
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I agree. That cliche is so retarded, its not like the guy purposedly attempted to look at her naked - someone needs to tell that tsundere that mistakes and accidents happen.

That cliche was one of my gripes with A Certain Magical Index.
 
#9
Oct 3, 2018 6:50 PM
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I guess they don't like the beating part itself, they like to see the girl show her feelings towards the guy, even if it's bad represented like this.
 
Oct 3, 2018 6:51 PM

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The more beating and abuse the MC suffers through, the more cute and satisfying it is to watch the Tsundere realise the feelings for the MC.
 
Oct 3, 2018 7:15 PM

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you know? some of RomCom Cliche that always had tsundere as Main heroine always do the same... and the most important thing is : that tsundere cant cook....

so this is my conclusion :
- the MC was pure masochist that choose tsundere as his lover (probably as wife too)
why?
- Tsundere cant cook.. this shall cause starving... this is doesnt work if the MC can cook
- Tsundere that punching,kicking or smacking the MC bcoz of lame reason... so the MC was enjoying this.
- the tsundere that cant express their feeling would be troublesome if they get a problem and the MC would hard to recognize it.. so the MC must be had a power to read minds.
- and why did otaku's always choose tsundere character as their favorite?
*some of otaku's enjoying that MC got kicked on their ass by tsundere's
*some of otaku's think that "when tsundere's blushed on the face... it was their cuteness"
* My Siganture
The MC Guy Dont deserve the best Girl.
 
Oct 3, 2018 9:15 PM

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Baka_phnx said:
The more beating and abuse the MC suffers through, the more cute and satisfying it is to watch the Tsundere realise the feelings for the MC.

meatbun_ said:
It's not the beating itself that is arousing, but the idea that all the abuse is only a means to hide her "true feelings" or other personal problems, and that the girl is secretly cute and lovable. The audience already knows this, and then it turns into a funny demonstration of hidden affection instead of a case of violent assault. The yandere works in a similar way, only with the addition of body bags.

However, this idea that it is somehow ok and "cute" for girls to abuse boys is older than memory. Charles M. Schulz himself once said it's funny when girls do that to boys, but wrong when done the other way around (thus why one of Lucy's main aspirations is to torment Charlie Brown while he never really stands up to her). So it's not really an "otaku" thing, just a general sexist stereotype.

Anyway, most of these 'deres types are actually just manic pixie dream girls, so it makes sense that guys like them.


I hate to admit it, but...I'm actually understanding your explanations.
Okay, so if the girl is abusive, it's that much more satisfying when she opens up, AND the idea that she abuses the guy to hide her true feelings, is what's arousing.
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Oct 3, 2018 9:23 PM

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A loser getting a girl apparently out of his league. It's the same as with Himedere girls.
 
Oct 3, 2018 9:27 PM

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I'm not of a fan of that iether, but I guess it's just gets used as comedic relief, nothing more. Just like here in the west also the guy in movies and shows get's humilated and treaded as dirt for comedic purposes that creates insecurity in men that "all men are scum and replaceable and you need to treat every woman with respect".

Don't @ me if you think I'm wrong. Just don't bother with your cognitive dissonance bullshit.
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Oct 3, 2018 10:06 PM

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It's nice seeing the MC getting beat up by a tsundere though
 
Oct 3, 2018 10:16 PM

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I see so much of it happening they might as well be used for domestic violence PSAs
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Oct 3, 2018 10:31 PM

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HopefulNihilist said:
I hate to admit it, but...I'm actually understanding your explanations.
Okay, so if the girl is abusive, it's that much more satisfying when she opens up, AND the idea that she abuses the guy to hide her true feelings, is what's arousing.


Pretty much. You know when a girl and a boy, sometimes still kids, keep quarreling with each other and adults around find it cute and say it's because they secretly like each other? It's kinda like that, only in real life it doesn't always get physical as it does in anime.

When I was a kid, there was a girl that kept biting me. Not the love bite, no -- I would cosntantly come home full of bruises. When my parents intervened, the school didn't think much of it, saying she probably just liked me and had trouble demonstrating it. Note: this was at nursery school. We were three years old.

The whole idea that people who keep arguing are just hiding their mutual feelings is more ingrained in society than we think. People grow up with it, so they have no problem in adhering to tsundere characters.
 
Oct 3, 2018 11:17 PM

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because a tsundere is a sadist and the guy is a masochist they can't help it
 
Oct 3, 2018 11:29 PM

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Actually getting hit by a girl is um kind of fun.
 
Oct 3, 2018 11:31 PM

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I think it's the fantasy of every fucking Japanese Maso male. As for me I really hate that when they beat the shit out of mc for no particular reason.
 
Oct 4, 2018 12:49 AM

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Tsundere are so popular that tsundere cafes are a thing in Japan. Maybe some people simply like to be treated like trash. People are literally paying to get kicked and slapped by tsundere maids. There are some videos on youtube where the behavior of the customers is quite questionable as well.



I don't like abusive tsundere, fans claim that they are better than other characters because they "develop" the most and getting to their dere side is rewarding and cute. I'm not a masochist so I can't understand that, if someone comes to be and behaves like shit I'll do everything to avoid the person. Sometimes it's funny to watch such things as comic relief but mostly it's simply annoying. I don't like those wimpy MCs who stick to these tsunderes either.

But I won't object to tsunderes hitting the MCs when they actually do perverted things or accidentally grab their boobs or walk into a room where she is changing.
Modified by Maou_heika, Oct 4, 2018 12:57 AM
 
Oct 4, 2018 2:29 AM
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They often don't show the part where the male character uses his Excalibur to calm her down. That part is what men are attracted to.
 
Oct 4, 2018 2:42 AM

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Otaku likes to look at naked girls, but feels ashamed of this. So wants a representative to get hit for it, without having to experience any actual pain themselves. That's how he looks at naked girls and feels comfortable doing so.

Or: Otaku treats girls badly in real life, so gets treated with scorn in return. Wants to imagine this is because there's something wrong with the girls, and they'd actually like him if they got to know him. Exaggerated because anime.
 
Oct 4, 2018 2:58 AM
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-Mahesvara said:
Walking in on a girl changing still warrants some repercussions, because in more cases than not, the male characters just barge in without knocking. Even if the door isn't locked, common sense dictates you should still knock just in case out of politeness. So I don't blame girls getting violent in those situations.
I agree with this assessment. Plus it's fiction, exaggerations are a lot of fun. I don't think there is much meaning to things like this from authors, even if they build a contrary character arc.



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whether you make it or not.
 
Oct 4, 2018 3:08 AM

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Because people like watching retards beating the shit out of retards. So they can laugh out how shit their life actually is.
 
Oct 4, 2018 6:15 AM

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you have to keep in mind that most of the guys watching have 0 vision when it comes to picking up signals from girls. so when a tsundere's is spewing these signals like the world is ending, then you see the appeal
 
Oct 4, 2018 6:48 AM

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No, it's not okay.
When the girl angry at the guy for no reason.
It means she dislike him and also herself becuz low self esteem.
Still she may have attatchment to him.
But it's not healthy relationship afterall.
 
Oct 4, 2018 7:06 AM

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It's definitely a fetish thing. I mean... I guess the main character is getting into a sexy situation with a girl (accidentally peeping at her changing or whatever) by doing absolutely nothing is the appeal. All those people who haven't talked to a person in god know how long fantasising about getting into that situation by being completely passive time and time again. I really don't enjoy that at all, I want the main characters to WANT to get into such situations, maybe even plot to "accidentally" do it. All that passive "oops" scenarios followed by an over-exaggerated smack from a girl gets lame after a while.

What's the fun in having the guy being dragged around in multiple scenarios where he has absolutely no control, then punished for the unavoidable outcome. Sure having some moments where another character pushes another character to do something is fine, but having harem main character end up in wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time scenarios over and over and over again is annoying.
Modified by BurningSpirit, Oct 4, 2018 7:12 AM
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Oct 4, 2018 7:18 AM

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That is almost kinda understandable what's even more annyoing is the let's call it girl beats guy beacause he says something she doesn't like trope. It's often so random and just annyoing. And while it isn't always a girl stuff like that does happen most of the time in shows where the female case consists of nothing but character archetypes like tsunderes.
Go read the One Punch Man manga please, this awful adaptation by JC Staff is a disgrace.
 
Oct 4, 2018 7:21 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:
It can't be that most otaku who like this are masochists

And thats where you are wrong mate, being a masochist is something like a national sport in Japan.
 
Oct 4, 2018 7:28 AM
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My Hero academia is also cliche, yet people like it. I wonder why?
 
Oct 4, 2018 7:30 AM

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Well the problem with Tsunderes is usually that they hit the guy even though the guy is already good.

Back then, girls with Tsundere traits were like that towards their significant other is because he/she have high expectations of their lovers and their lovers are clearly flawed Like Shinji Ikari or the main guy of Urusei Yatsura.
If the main guy is an asshole, pervert and etc then thd Tsundere girl is clearly somewhat justified in their abrasiveness because they want to whip their lovers into a better shape.
 
Oct 4, 2018 8:14 AM

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It's kind of the same as to why women often like bad boy type characters. They start off flawed which gives them something both relatable and intriguing. But i think the bigger appeal is you can change them with your love. This not only makes you feel special but gives the character an inherently satisfying arc. The main difference is the hitting. You're not gonna have a sexy bad boy with a heart of gold who beats his love interest because the possibility of ending up in an abusive relationship or knowing a woman in an abusive relationship is just too real for most people. Whats unfortunate is that abusive girlfriends are much more real than We'd like to think, it's just not viewed as an actual threat by many people.. hence why it can be taken as comedic or charming.
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Oct 4, 2018 8:14 AM

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logopolis said:
Otaku likes to look at naked girls, but feels ashamed of this. So wants a representative to get hit for it, without having to experience any actual pain themselves. That's how he looks at naked girls and feels comfortable doing so.


That...actually makes sense. Huh. I can't believe it.

meatbun_ said:
HopefulNihilist said:
I hate to admit it, but...I'm actually understanding your explanations.
Okay, so if the girl is abusive, it's that much more satisfying when she opens up, AND the idea that she abuses the guy to hide her true feelings, is what's arousing.


Pretty much. You know when a girl and a boy, sometimes still kids, keep quarreling with each other and adults around find it cute and say it's because they secretly like each other? It's kinda like that, only in real life it doesn't always get physical as it does in anime.

When I was a kid, there was a girl that kept biting me. Not the love bite, no -- I would cosntantly come home full of bruises. When my parents intervened, the school didn't think much of it, saying she probably just liked me and had trouble demonstrating it. Note: this was at nursery school. We were three years old.

The whole idea that people who keep arguing are just hiding their mutual feelings is more ingrained in society than we think. People grow up with it, so they have no problem in adhering to tsundere characters.


That...sounds very very fucked up. I remember when I was 6 I bit this kid's arm for no reason. (I did a lot of weird shit for literally no reason when I was a kid, like pouring coke into a pool). Maybe I didn't get into much trouble because they thought it was cute.

Modified by AbsurdistOtaku, Oct 4, 2018 8:19 AM
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Oct 4, 2018 8:23 AM

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There is a clear narrative function for the tsundere archetype, but over the years idiotic writers who simply copy and paste without realizing the original purpose behind the tsundere have watered down and warped the trope to the point that it serves no real purpose anymore. Now, its usually just there to fuel crappy gags and to add another a token waifu to a series. If you're curious to see tsunderes that actually do have a reason for their behavior, check out 90s and 80s anime, there are a bunch of good examples of how that relationship dynamic is supposed to be like.

That's the short version.
 
Oct 4, 2018 8:23 AM

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one word: """""funny""""""
I want to die
 
Oct 4, 2018 8:24 AM

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Invidioso said:
My Hero academia is also cliche, yet people like it. I wonder why?

Because of cute boys doing cute things.

Together.
 
Oct 4, 2018 8:34 AM
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Swagernator said:


Together.


This definetely Explains everything.....
 
Oct 4, 2018 9:12 AM

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maybe we ARE masochists. o shit lul.
 
Oct 4, 2018 9:20 AM

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i do understand the appeal, when a tsundere that’s normally abusive and harsh opens up, its more meaningful
however whenever the tsundere isn’t showing her soft side, they can be annoying for me. a lot of times the situations where they get mad at the MCs are misunderstandings, and don’t even TRY to hear them out. this works for romcoms, because the misunderstanding can be used for a joke or whatever. but if it’s a serious romance, it’s just hard for me to sit there and watch it happen. doesn’t help that tsunderes nowadays tend to be poorly written and more of a copy-paste kind of deal
these kinds of characters only work in anime, i bet if most tsundere fans got in a relationship with an actual “tsundere”, they’d hate them.
 
Oct 4, 2018 9:44 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:
You guys know what I'm talking about: those scenes where guy accidentally stumbles on a naked girl, or says something harmless, and gets the shit beaten out of him by the abusive tsundere. My question is: Why do people like this cliche?

Because it makes for great comedy.
It's like when a small child walks into a saloon door and the 20th century fox theme is played.
It's like when someone falls after tripping over a banana.
It's like when someone falls on his ass after doing a skateboard trick.

Physical humor is hilarious (and it's not like someone dies anyway)
and I'm a sadist

1+1=2 do the math my friend

I don't mind tsunderes that much. The Tsun part of their personality is what causes them to be harsh like this, but the Dere part makes them lovey dovey.
It's about bringing out the Dere part which matters. Tsunderes aren't just violent bullies. They're feeling things and are confused about their feelings. But instead of putting their reproductive organ into a car exhaust they feel so uneasy they "push away" those making them feel confused by using violence.
If you stick around one long enough, she'll eventually warm up to you.
It's like somebody with a severe depression. Will cuss you out say the most horrible things but really just wants to be held close and tight and never be let go.

Only tsunderes won't off themselves when they see you talk to another girl. They'll just call you "baka!!!!", smack you in the face then run off to scream into a pillow until you properly apologize to her and explain it's just a misunderstanding, then go on a date with her and end up in her room.
 
Oct 4, 2018 10:32 AM

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HopefulNihilist said:
(I did a lot of weird shit for literally no reason when I was a kid, like pouring coke into a pool).


BWAHAHAH you sound like you were a fun kid.
 
Oct 4, 2018 2:34 PM

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HopefulNihilist said:
You guys know what I'm talking about: those scenes where guy accidentally stumbles on a naked girl, or says something harmless, and gets the shit beaten out of him by the abusive tsundere. My question is: Why do people like this cliche?
I'll let Medic introduce my answer.



Anyway, I do have my guess though, which is that they're trying to make it sorta "hint at" or tease sexuality, but then it wouldn't make sense in context to just have the characters being okay with it so they need the girl character's reaction in order to "justify" the thing. Then after a while it became a trope itself and people started expecting it to happen.

HopefulNihilist said:
Like okay, I get it, most Japanese guys (for whatever reason) like weak-willed anime girls "pure" anime girls...but why do they like anime girls that would beat the shit out of them for almost no justified reason?
I don't think it's about purity; it's about "we can't go all the way but we can tease it".
 
Oct 4, 2018 2:37 PM

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If I had to make a guess I'd say it's because a lot of people like s & m.
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Oct 4, 2018 2:45 PM

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Many people say it's too see the dere part but why not just go for the himedere or kuudere instead?
Most of the time, for me atleast, the cute parts just aren't enough or were just mediocre compared to a cute part that happened with another girl
the character acts like a bitch the entire show because she likes the guy but is bad at expressing their feelings? a few blushes here and there aren't gonna make you likeable if you still act like a bitch (just a popular example but not always the case)
A Himedere is much more interesting, not only does she fulfill the masochism part better, in general it's just a much more interesting character (atleast to me) sometimes the character even gets called out for the fact she's being a bitch
A Kuudere treats the MC cold at the start but once she warms up to him she stops being an icy bitch and has most of the time much cuter moments
SUPER CUTIE SUPER STAR
 
Oct 4, 2018 3:29 PM

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They where really popular back in the 00s but these days people prefer the chill tsundere type and kuudere.

I mean hitting the mc once in a while like Mikoto is cool, but every episode... fck that.
 
Oct 4, 2018 11:13 PM

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HopefulNihilist said:
You guys know what I'm talking about: those scenes where guy accidentally stumbles on a naked girl, or says something harmless, and gets the shit beaten out of him by the abusive tsundere. My question is: Why do people like this cliche?

It can't be that most otaku who like this are masochists: actual S&M involves the sadist beating up the masochist with consent.

Like okay, I get it, most Japanese guys (for whatever reason) like weak-willed anime girls "pure" anime girls...but why do they like anime girls that would beat the shit out of them for almost no justified reason?

Most anime with this trope are "romantic comedies". And we all know that people getting hurt through no fault of their own are funny. That's why tsunderes keep doing it.
Beating people up isn't meant to make tsunderes particularly appealing. Except if she is meant to be some kind of a warrior, in which case beating people up is a major facet of her personality, and beating people up for peeping on her is just an extension of that.
 
Oct 4, 2018 11:21 PM

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Romantic tension for comedic value is not a new concept, though I suppose the youth have a problem with their masochistic tendencies.
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Oct 7, 2018 4:55 AM

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Cuz they're dumbasses, OP. Why else?
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Oct 7, 2018 5:03 AM

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OP, don't kinkshame....

also there is a thing called moegap...
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