Forum Settings
Forums

Should Chinese "Anime" be removed from MAL?

Pages (6) « 1 2 [3] 4 5 » ... Last »
Post New Reply
Sep 27, 2018 6:06 PM

Online
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1828
jarring said:
NthDegree said:
@jarring Oh and by the way, were you aware that western studios also outsource their animation jobs to Japanese animators? And yes, this includes Disney that you previously said shouldn't be on MAL. Well, turns out you're too late.

https://myanimelist.net/anime/5027/Stitch

Because this is anime and shows like Avatar and RWBY are not.


well as i said before it's because it is distributed in Japan with Japanese dubs.
it might be a different thing if it was also distributed in America, but i don't think that was.

Roosterteeth, etc are American production companies, and they didn't make those cartoons to be distributed in Japan specifically.

I'm not sure if it was distributed in America, but according to ANN, it has been shown at least in Germany and Spain. Unless you want to count those countries to be 'Asia' as well?

And as a counter-agrument I might also note that RWBY has also been distributed in Japan and dubbed in Japanese. Heck, when I was in Japan, they were literally broadcasting it on Japanese TV.

If you want more examples of western companies outsourcing to Japan while catering to western market, there are also such examples as Linkin Park's Breaking the Habit (animated by Studio Gonzo) and Kill Bill's animated sections (animated by Production IG). Meanwhile something like Neo Yokio is not listed on MAL even though it was animated as a collab between Production IG and Studio DEEN and tries to be anime in style. Really, the only reason I can think of why it isn't there with other western co-productions like aforementioned Shelter (which was also mainly made for Americans to my knowledge, the artist just happened to be really into anime) is because it was bad.

In short, with all these co-productions, some of which are listed on MAL and some are not, you cannot claim that MAL listings are not subjective already. Really, it would not be such a big change.
My condolences to KyoAni #PrayForKyoani
 
Sep 27, 2018 6:26 PM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1515
NthDegree said:
jarring said:


well as i said before it's because it is distributed in Japan with Japanese dubs.
it might be a different thing if it was also distributed in America, but i don't think that was.

Roosterteeth, etc are American production companies, and they didn't make those cartoons to be distributed in Japan specifically.

I'm not sure if it was distributed in America, but according to ANN, it has been shown at least in Germany and Spain. Unless you want to count those countries to be 'Asia' as well?

And as a counter-agrument I might also note that RWBY has also been distributed in Japan and dubbed in Japanese. Heck, when I was in Japan, they were literally broadcasting it on Japanese TV.

If you want more examples of western companies outsourcing to Japan while catering to western market, there are also such examples as Linkin Park's Breaking the Habit (animated by Studio Gonzo) and Kill Bill's animated sections (animated by Production IG). Meanwhile something like Neo Yokio is not listed on MAL even though it was animated as a collab between Production IG and Studio DEEN and tries to be anime in style. Really, the only reason I can think of why it isn't there with other western co-productions like aforementioned Shelter (which was also mainly made for Americans to my knowledge, the artist just happened to be really into anime) is because it was bad.

In short, with all these co-productions, some of which are listed on MAL and some are not, you cannot claim that MAL listings are not subjective already. Really, it would not be such a big change.


No, i would call Germany and Spain Europe.
I think what matters is its intended demographic though. It's clear that the original intended demographic for Stitch was Japanese.

And yeah, I wouldn't doubt that about RWBY.

I'm saying that the distribution rights are most likely what they base what is allowed on MAL.

It definitely seems to be the case anyways.
It's interesting that Neo Yokio isn't listed here.
There is something about it that makes it look distinctly American though, despite its anime influences.
I can't quite put my finger on it lol.

and yeah I said before, i wouldn't mind if they allowed all the co-productions...

Just not stuff like RWBY, Avatar, etc. that just looks like anime.

I don't need examples of outsourcing, i know they did that. I gave example of Thundercats, and the reason why they didn't have it on here.

IDK why shelter is on here considering it's just a music video...
ME!ME!ME! isn't even on here. Seems kinda dumb to have Shelter.

I was just defending "western music" in that it should be allowed in anime before.
 
Sep 27, 2018 6:39 PM

Online
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1828
@jarring Anyway, as stated before my point here was simply to prove the subjectivity of the current listings. This is why I feel like changing the listing conditions to also allow similarly styled works from other countries would simply reflect the audience experience better than the current methods and would be more sustainable criteria as globalization keeps marching on. Sure, it is subjective, but as we have shown, so are the current listings. Heck, simply the fact that we're having this conversation at all is a proof of that.
My condolences to KyoAni #PrayForKyoani
 
Sep 27, 2018 6:51 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 496
It should be separated but not removed.

Inb4 If dong hua and Korean animation are in MAL, why are not cartoons like Avatar and old Teen Titans in there?
Cuteness>All
Cuteness is Love, Cuteness is Life
My Discord server.
 
Sep 27, 2018 6:54 PM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1515
NthDegree said:
@jarring Anyway, as stated before my point here was simply to prove the subjectivity of the current listings. This is why I feel like changing the listing conditions to also allow similarly styled works from other countries would simply reflect the audience experience better than the current methods and would be more sustainable criteria as globalization keeps marching on. Sure, it is subjective, but as we have shown, so are the current listings. Heck, simply the fact that we're having this conversation at all is a proof of that.


I don't think that would be a good idea...like i said it would just create more problems than it would solve. They could make some very minor changes, but it is ultimately up to the owner i'm sure.

talking about the "globalization of anime" is kind of silly to begin with...especially in regards to what is allowed to be listed as "anime" on a website.

Real globalization is a much bigger deal and makes a huge impact on the entire world.
Especially when it comes to actual intelligence, industry, technology and weapons
 
Sep 27, 2018 7:19 PM
Offline
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 6
Pullman said:
ForestBalrog said:


Exactly my point. So if we have those guidelines but the site doesn't follow them, why have guidelines at all?

Anyways, I'm done with this. I don't make forum posts because you get jerks like Pullman who troll forums and want to fight with people. I just saw the thread, thought it was interesting, and decided to put in my two cents. In return, I got told I was selfish for giving my opinion. Well, Pullman is the selfish one because he wants the site to be the way he wants it. I just can't believe reading back through this thread when I see Pullman saying to -SP- that he couldn't read or comprehend. What a completely rude person. Pullman's obviously the one who can't read because he doesn't seem to be comprehending the issue or what anyone is actually saying. His opinion is no more right than mine and it's no less valid either, but he doesn't have any right to sit there and treat other people poorly. No wonder he's no longer a mod, what a loser. Anyways, like I said, this turned into something completely ridiculous. I'm done, bye.


Instead of random ad-hominems and calling me a troll for no reason (do you even know what a troll is?) you could have just answered my questions of what the practical advantages of removing everything now would be and why it isn't selfish that you want me not to be able to add korean and chinese titles to my list anymore without gaining any additional usability yourself. This isn't about what the ideal situation could be if we could redo the past, but it's about what's the most reasonable way of dealing with the situation we already have right now, and none of your arguments are even slightly convincing in that regard and you seem to dodge the subject on purpose.

So since you don't seem to be able to actually answer those concerns or provide any actual arguments addressing them you try to retreat into distractions like attacking me personally and opportunistic relativism.

There's honestly nothing else to say. I brought my arguments in reply to yours and you still have not addressed them, instead resorting to namecalling. I think we're done here.


Your argument and reasoning were not convincing either. You've ignored several of my points, insulted me and others on the thread, and have been argumentative and rude which is why I figured there was no point to continue. You haven't acknowledged that the guidelines on the site don't add up with the titles that have been added, and those that haven't. I've given one "unreasonable" solution, which was to remove the titles that did not fit in with the guidelines, and one reasonable one which was to be more inclusive and add some titles if they're going to do it anyways. I've only resorted to namecalling since you've insulted other users' intelligence, including my own. I have every right to defend myself. If you are going to make personal judgements about myself and others, expect to be judged in return. Oh, and just to prove that you were being rude and condescending I guess I need some quotes:

Pullman said:
If you really have to ask what work DB mods do you know so little about how this site operates that I wonder why you think you're in a position to suggest improvements. First you gotta know how stuff actually works, no offense.


This was your first post. The definition of a troll on the internet is "make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them."

Pullman said:
And if you still don't understand why things are like they are and why it's unreasonable to demand undoing thousands of hours of work after the detailed explanation I gave you in the previous post then I can only question your reading comprehension or conclude that you don't care about understanding the historical context and arguments in favor or the status quo in the first place and just want to be against it no matter what and o matter how much sense that makes given the situation the DB is already in.

In either case, I've said all there is to say. You can either understand and accept it like everyone else who's informed themselves on the topic, or stay stubborn about it, I don't care. It won't make a difference either way tbh. I know how this topic ends, seen it too many times before.


Pullman said:
It's not like anything that goes against your personal wishes or preferences 'makes no sense'. That's all I'm saying.

And I see literally zero upside of having people undo all the work and remove the korean and chinese anime from the DB. Just so your 'cohesion' OCD gets satisfied? Seriously, what is the upside of removing stuff that is already there? Like, a practical upside, not just something abstract like 'being cohesive'?

I just really don't get what people get out of removing these titles. Some people like me enjoy having them there and the rest barely even knows they exist and can just choose to ignore them. Removing them changes nothing about the functionability of the site for the latter, it only makes it worse for the people who do watch chinese and korean animation.

So to me it just seems like some selfish 'I want everything to be like I say it should be!!' that would change nothing of the usability of the site for the people who demand the removal of chinese/korean shows while taking away some options and features for people like me. All that for the abstract principle of cohesion, which is nice to have in theory, but not worth actively reducing what the site already offers just to acquire it in retrospect.

If you would rather have a purist japanese site, that's your right, but that's nothing more than your personal wish and there are many reasons why doing so at this point would be unreasonable and counterproductive. That's all I was saying. I don't like it when people voice their personal preferences by saying the other options 'make no sense' like you did, because it clearly does make sense in its own way and changing to your model has no practical benefit at all at this point so if anything, that doesn't make sense.


I'm not a social person and just put in my two cents on a whim. It's a thread asking for people's opinions. You've been condesending the entire time. You've resorting to calling my opinion selfish while saying yourself that you want the site a certain way because it suits you. If having my own opinon is selfish, then you're selfish too for having yours. And you continue to insult my intelligence even in the last post you've made. You don't know everything like you seem to think and you also seem to think you can treat others poorly and no one can say anything back to you. Well I don't put up with nonsense like that. I'm going to stand up for myself and not have you bully your way through a discussion that you tried turning into an argument from your very first post. Now I'm going to have to unsubscribe from MAL emails because I keep getting notifications every time you reply and I'm so done with this because it is acomplishing nothing.
Modified by ForestBalrog, Sep 27, 2018 7:33 PM
 
Sep 27, 2018 11:31 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5018
I am pro adding significantly outsorced to Japan works. And I have no problem with outsourced anime being around, if Japan can outsource to Korea heavily and still have it called anime.... It would certainly make studios like Topcraft look better.

It is annoying to me and I feel works like Mushishi don't fit in with their stance against outsourced works. And it isn't like american works don't have an audience in Japan. Especially Disney works. (Disney these days is made for a worldwide audience not just an american one)
Expanding the scope rather than narrowing it feels like a better answer.
Modified by Energetic-Nova, Sep 27, 2018 11:34 PM
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Sep 27, 2018 11:39 PM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5018
jarring said:
NthDegree said:

I'm not sure if it was distributed in America, but according to ANN, it has been shown at least in Germany and Spain. Unless you want to count those countries to be 'Asia' as well?

And as a counter-agrument I might also note that RWBY has also been distributed in Japan and dubbed in Japanese. Heck, when I was in Japan, they were literally broadcasting it on Japanese TV.

If you want more examples of western companies outsourcing to Japan while catering to western market, there are also such examples as Linkin Park's Breaking the Habit (animated by Studio Gonzo) and Kill Bill's animated sections (animated by Production IG). Meanwhile something like Neo Yokio is not listed on MAL even though it was animated as a collab between Production IG and Studio DEEN and tries to be anime in style. Really, the only reason I can think of why it isn't there with other western co-productions like aforementioned Shelter (which was also mainly made for Americans to my knowledge, the artist just happened to be really into anime) is because it was bad.

In short, with all these co-productions, some of which are listed on MAL and some are not, you cannot claim that MAL listings are not subjective already. Really, it would not be such a big change.


No, i would call Germany and Spain Europe.
I think what matters is its intended demographic though. It's clear that the original intended demographic for Stitch was Japanese.

And yeah, I wouldn't doubt that about RWBY.

I'm saying that the distribution rights are most likely what they base what is allowed on MAL.

It definitely seems to be the case anyways.
It's interesting that Neo Yokio isn't listed here.
There is something about it that makes it look distinctly American though, despite its anime influences.
I can't quite put my finger on it lol.

and yeah I said before, i wouldn't mind if they allowed all the co-productions...

Just not stuff like RWBY, Avatar, etc. that just looks like anime.

I don't need examples of outsourcing, i know they did that. I gave example of Thundercats, and the reason why they didn't have it on here.

IDK why shelter is on here considering it's just a music video...
ME!ME!ME! isn't even on here. Seems kinda dumb to have Shelter.

I was just defending "western music" in that it should be allowed in anime before.


https://myanimelist.net/anime/28149/Nihon_Animator_Mihonichi?q=nihon

It is because ME Me Me is apart of this shorts series by Khara. Glad to have helped.

Also there are a crapton of music videos including
https://myanimelist.net/anime/8626/Good_Morning
Which is a Kanye west video. XD

Neo Yokio should be here honestly. Just as much as Afro Samurai is here.
Modified by Energetic-Nova, Sep 27, 2018 11:43 PM
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Sep 28, 2018 12:03 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 24804
-Funland- said:
hazecloud said:

Chinese user said tencent company is bad so I try to avoid it.

Who the hell told you tencent was a bad company.


I know for sure you're the first one to get blocked by me. Maybe try to tell me which part of your life I should appreciate.
 
Sep 28, 2018 12:20 AM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 3253
Why not make an extension site called MyAnimeCartoonList where you can add all animations and you classify them by country. This way MAL will be for purist japanese animation and dena will score big money.
Regarding chinese stuff, I don't watch them, too communist for me, if it were the 80s maybe.
"Even if there's a wide world and stories
beyond the main focus, I don't think
it's necessary to end with the protagonist having
been involved in everything." - Yagi Norihiro
 
Sep 28, 2018 12:30 AM
I don't bite =3

Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 530
They are fine just the way they are. So no.
 
Sep 28, 2018 12:31 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1515
Energetic-Nova said:
jarring said:


No, i would call Germany and Spain Europe.
I think what matters is its intended demographic though. It's clear that the original intended demographic for Stitch was Japanese.

And yeah, I wouldn't doubt that about RWBY.

I'm saying that the distribution rights are most likely what they base what is allowed on MAL.

It definitely seems to be the case anyways.
It's interesting that Neo Yokio isn't listed here.
There is something about it that makes it look distinctly American though, despite its anime influences.
I can't quite put my finger on it lol.

and yeah I said before, i wouldn't mind if they allowed all the co-productions...

Just not stuff like RWBY, Avatar, etc. that just looks like anime.

I don't need examples of outsourcing, i know they did that. I gave example of Thundercats, and the reason why they didn't have it on here.

IDK why shelter is on here considering it's just a music video...
ME!ME!ME! isn't even on here. Seems kinda dumb to have Shelter.

I was just defending "western music" in that it should be allowed in anime before.


https://myanimelist.net/anime/28149/Nihon_Animator_Mihonichi?q=nihon

It is because ME Me Me is apart of this shorts series by Khara. Glad to have helped.

Also there are a crapton of music videos including
https://myanimelist.net/anime/8626/Good_Morning
Which is a Kanye west video. XD

Neo Yokio should be here honestly. Just as much as Afro Samurai is here.


nice, are any of the other shorts good? only ever saw the one i think.

never liked kanye so it's no surprise i never saw that one.

it seems like the only reason they're here is because the studios that produced the videos are famous for anime and have a lot of anime here already.

I wouldn't care if they added Neo Yokio, but.. meh.

I mean..i doubt they'd add every music video or piece of film that has some sort of japanese animation in it on this site...

seems like it would be a bit much.
i just saw a new japanese music video with anime in it.. are they gonna add it too?

no right? they shouldn't right?
it's just because of the studio right?
 
Sep 28, 2018 3:18 AM

Online
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1828
@jarring Okay this is kind of unrelated but... Just that this quote is funny.

jarring said:
talking about the "globalization of anime" is kind of silly to begin with...especially in regards to what is allowed to be listed as "anime" on a website.

Real globalization is a much bigger deal and makes a huge impact on the entire world.
Especially when it comes to actual intelligence, industry, technology and weapons

I hope that you do realize that the reason globalization is so powerful is because it affects everything. Saying anime is not influenced by it is underestimating it, especially straight after being presented with a ton of co-productions as evidence. Calling just the perceived 'important things' the "real globalization" makes me wonder if you actually even know what the term actually means.

Not that I mean to attack you or anything. I just suggest maybe familiarizing yourself with the concept before using it in an argument.
My condolences to KyoAni #PrayForKyoani
 
Sep 28, 2018 3:53 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 312
I would say that "Anime" are any animation that are similar to the ones originating from Japan. That's it. I don't mind if it's korean or chinese. As long as the animation is similar to it.

Similar to how a manga can be drawn by an artist in the west, I think the style is what matters the most.

But honestly keep it here. There are no other platforms where we can search for those chinese animation out of MAL and those chinese animation are sometimes reaaaallly good.

 
Sep 28, 2018 3:58 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16340
Catalano said:
Why not make an extension site called MyAnimeCartoonList where you can add all animations and you classify them by country. This way MAL will be for purist japanese animation and dena will score big money.
there already is http://bcdb.com/ (big cartoon database) but the site kinda sucks

jarring said:
I mean..i doubt they'd add every music video or piece of film that has some sort of japanese animation in it on this site...

seems like it would be a bit much.
i just saw a new japanese music video with anime in it.. are they gonna add it too?

no right? they shouldn't right?
it's just because of the studio right?
if you're feeling frisky you can try to add it and see if it gets accepted or refused; many of my anime entries are music videos xd
http://myanimelist.net/panel.php?go=anime_series&do=add
there are entries with some live action content out there like twilight of cockroaches

also remember, "they" who add anime are normal users like you and me; the mods job is to approve or deny them, and edit information as needed, more than to add them
 
Sep 28, 2018 4:09 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1515
NthDegree said:
@jarring Okay this is kind of unrelated but... Just that this quote is funny.

jarring said:
talking about the "globalization of anime" is kind of silly to begin with...especially in regards to what is allowed to be listed as "anime" on a website.

Real globalization is a much bigger deal and makes a huge impact on the entire world.
Especially when it comes to actual intelligence, industry, technology and weapons

I hope that you do realize that the reason globalization is so powerful is because it affects everything. Saying anime is not influenced by it is underestimating it, especially straight after being presented with a ton of co-productions as evidence. Calling just the perceived 'important things' the "real globalization" makes me wonder if you actually even know what the term actually means.

Not that I mean to attack you or anything. I just suggest maybe familiarizing yourself with the concept before using it in an argument.


thing is that anime has already been globalized with the 80s-90s anime boom along with internet streaming, and it's still a niche market. I experienced it first-hand, and it wasn't even a big deal. what more can happen?
do you expect all cartoons to look like anime eventually or something?

i've known about co-productions for a long time man. this is nothing new.
Rankin/Bass Productions has been doing it since the fucking 60s. Lol
Their very first film was coproduced with a company in Japan in 1965.

what is this evidence of that I don't already know about?
What i'm trying to understand...is what you think is going to happen in the future? What do you think will change? How exactly does this effect everything? I'm interested to know.

I was around for the anime boom, vhs/beta, cassettes, cds, dvds, etc.
all of those came out of japan. all of those effected practically everyone.

some anime co-productions really gonna change the world dude?
i understand, influence is a powerful thing. but i think you're overestimating it...maybe just a little.

romagia said:
Catalano said:
Why not make an extension site called MyAnimeCartoonList where you can add all animations and you classify them by country. This way MAL will be for purist japanese animation and dena will score big money.
there already is http://bcdb.com/ (big cartoon database) but the site kinda sucks

jarring said:
I mean..i doubt they'd add every music video or piece of film that has some sort of japanese animation in it on this site...

seems like it would be a bit much.
i just saw a new japanese music video with anime in it.. are they gonna add it too?

no right? they shouldn't right?
it's just because of the studio right?
if you're feeling frisky you can try to add it and see if it gets accepted or refused; many of my anime entries are music videos xd
http://myanimelist.net/panel.php?go=anime_series&do=add
there are entries with some live action content out there like twilight of cockroaches

also remember, "they" who add anime are normal users like you and me; the mods job is to approve or deny them, and edit information as needed, more than to add them


learn something new every day :P
Modified by jarring, Sep 28, 2018 4:24 AM
 
Sep 28, 2018 4:35 AM

Online
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1828
@jarring If you have known for the co-productions for such a long time, then you surely know how much more common they are now than in the past. That is globalization.

And if you indeed know about the increase in foreign co-productions, yet still claim that anime is somehow exempt from 'real globalization' that just shows you don't understand what the term means. Well, now you know.

By the way, when have I said it 'changes the world'? Or something similar to that? I've only said it is becoming more international, more global, hence globalization. The trend is simply a statistical fact, if you look at the amount of anime that involve foreign creators or co-productions.

Oh, and male assumption much, dude? I'm a woman.
My condolences to KyoAni #PrayForKyoani
 
Sep 28, 2018 4:35 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1515
@romagia

btw, i found an old dvd of a really shitty dub of a really shitty anime that's ON here.. but the dub isn't listed.. like there are no english voice actors listed..

it's nowhere to be found on the internet either.
what should i do?

i just found the cassette though, I didn't look too hard for the box/sleeve, but i'm sure it's around somewhere in storage or something idk. just don't feel like looking for it right now.

just wondering if it would be worth it to do anything with it.
I mean it's fucking garbage so i assume it's pointless
https://myanimelist.net/anime/3968/Dragoon?q=dragoon

@NthDegree

Sorry, it looks like i've offended you by saying "real globalization" lol.
you seem deadset on believing coproductions are going to change the world. You can believe it. You can also believe I don't know what globalization is.
I just don't believe you when you say coproductions are going to change everything.
especially compared to actually new technology and ideas.

And yeah, it might pick up, I won't deny it. But it's not going to change a whole lot in comparison to what's already happened. It will still be a niche market at the end of the day.

Or wait, you expecting these co-productions to cause another anime boom aren't you.
How old are you? j/w cuz it doesn't sound like you were around for the anime boom.

just for the record Japan outsources because they are having problems with their population.
and if anything, their cartoons have started to look more american because of it.
Modified by jarring, Sep 28, 2018 4:49 AM
 
Sep 28, 2018 4:45 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16340
jarring said:
@romagia

btw, i found an old dvd of a really shitty dub of a really shitty anime that's ON here.. but the dub isn't listed.. like there are no english voice actors listed..

it's nowhere to be found on the internet either.
what should i do?

i just found the cassette though, I didn't look too hard for the box/sleeve, but i'm sure it's around somewhere in storage or something idk. just don't feel like looking for it right now.

just wondering if it would be worth it to do anything with it.
I mean it's fucking garbage so i assume it's pointless
https://myanimelist.net/anime/3968/Dragoon?q=dragoon
the dub seems to be documented to some extent (it has ADR Director credit) , but not even ANN has info on the voice actors
if you have voice actor names (like from credits or such), you could go to the english voice actor pages and click "Add a Voice Acting Role"
 
Sep 28, 2018 4:55 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1515
romagia said:
jarring said:
@romagia

btw, i found an old dvd of a really shitty dub of a really shitty anime that's ON here.. but the dub isn't listed.. like there are no english voice actors listed..

it's nowhere to be found on the internet either.
what should i do?

i just found the cassette though, I didn't look too hard for the box/sleeve, but i'm sure it's around somewhere in storage or something idk. just don't feel like looking for it right now.

just wondering if it would be worth it to do anything with it.
I mean it's fucking garbage so i assume it's pointless
https://myanimelist.net/anime/3968/Dragoon?q=dragoon
the dub seems to be documented to some extent (it has ADR Director credit) , but not even ANN has info on the voice actors
if you have voice actor names (like from credits or such), you could go to the english voice actor pages and click "Add a Voice Acting Role"


what is ADR Director credit? lol..
I'm not sure if it shows VAs in the credits or not...i'd have to pull out my vhs from storage if i wanted to watch it -_-;
IDK where my mom even found this relic.. she just came home with it one day back in the 90s and gave it to me.
the cassette is fucking white, only vhs cassette i ever owned that was white. blew my mind.
says it was released by ADV.. "In Japanese with English dubbed" lol
guess the animation is "in Japanese"
 
Sep 28, 2018 5:01 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16340
jarring said:
romagia said:
the dub seems to be documented to some extent (it has ADR Director credit) , but not even ANN has info on the voice actors
if you have voice actor names (like from credits or such), you could go to the english voice actor pages and click "Add a Voice Acting Role"


what is ADR Director credit? lol..
I'm not sure if it shows VAs in the credits or not...i'd have to pull out my vhs from storage if i wanted to watch it -_-;
IDK where my mom even found this relic.. she just came home with it one day back in the 90s and gave it to me.
the cassette is fucking white, only vhs cassette i ever owned that was white. blew my mind.
says it was released by ADV.. "In Japanese with English dubbed" lol
guess the animation is "in Japanese"
ADR comes from automated dialogue replacement
im not entirely sure that is either, but it's a process in dubbing

i think evangelion was released in white vhs too
 
Sep 28, 2018 5:07 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1515
romagia said:
jarring said:


what is ADR Director credit? lol..
I'm not sure if it shows VAs in the credits or not...i'd have to pull out my vhs from storage if i wanted to watch it -_-;
IDK where my mom even found this relic.. she just came home with it one day back in the 90s and gave it to me.
the cassette is fucking white, only vhs cassette i ever owned that was white. blew my mind.
says it was released by ADV.. "In Japanese with English dubbed" lol
guess the animation is "in Japanese"
ADR comes from automated dialogue replacement
im not entirely sure that is either, but it's a process in dubbing

i think evangelion was released in white vhs too


huh.. weird. didn't know about eva being white. i got it on dvd.. :|

@romagia
actually i've gotten pretty good at identifying voice actors.. maybe i'll dig out my VCR sometime and watch it just for fuks sake and see if I can identify some VAs...
maybe even get lucky and get the entire cast during the credits...sometimes they'll have a second credits reel for the english cast behind a black wall after the ED theme ends.
Modified by jarring, Sep 28, 2018 5:18 AM
 
Sep 28, 2018 5:15 AM

Online
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1828
@jarring As I previously stated, I find it amusing more than anything.

I see, you're straw manning me pretty hard there. And then comboing it with an ad hominem. Truly spectacular arguing skills there.

To put it simply, you first accuse me of believing something I have not stated and then assume things about me that not only you have no way of knowing but are also completely irrelevant to the argument. My personal history or attributes are no concern of yours.

As your argument is nothing more than straw men and ad hominem, there is nothing worthwhile for me to reply to aside from calling you out on your fallacies. The only thing it shows is your lack of argumentative skills.
My condolences to KyoAni #PrayForKyoani
 
Sep 28, 2018 5:25 AM
Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 887
No, and your argument is false equivocation.
 
Sep 28, 2018 5:31 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1515
NthDegree said:
@jarring As I previously stated, I find it amusing more than anything.

I see, you're straw manning me pretty hard there. And then comboing it with an ad hominem. Truly spectacular arguing skills there.

To put it simply, you first accuse me of believing something I have not stated and then assume things about me that not only you have no way of knowing but are also completely irrelevant to the argument. My personal history or attributes are no concern of yours.

As your argument is nothing more than straw men and ad hominem, there is nothing worthwhile for me to reply to aside from calling you out on your fallacies. The only thing it shows is your lack of argumentative skills.


just going to quote you here...lol@bold
I hope that you do realize that the reason globalization is so powerful is because it affects everything. Saying anime is not influenced by it is underestimating it


then you went on with your first couple sets of
ad hominem

but i shouldn't have to quote every time you've tried to insult my intelligence specifically. I'm sure you remember.

I could keep going, but IDK if i want to waste my time.

I've been much more civil than you deserve tbh.
And this argument is absolutely pointless.
 
Sep 28, 2018 5:43 AM

Online
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1828
@jarring I agree this argument is pointless, so I'll make this my final reply.

Oh, so you were offended? In that case let me clarify that I never insulted your intelligence. I simply pointed out that your argument was inconsistent with the definition of the word and that your previous post was riddled with fallacies. You not understanding the terms and lacking argumentative skills are not insults, but simply logical conclusions from those facts.
My condolences to KyoAni #PrayForKyoani
 
Sep 28, 2018 5:45 AM

Offline
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 16340
jarring said:
romagia said:
ADR comes from automated dialogue replacement
im not entirely sure that is either, but it's a process in dubbing

i think evangelion was released in white vhs too


huh.. weird. didn't know about eva being white. i got it on dvd.. :|

@romagia
actually i've gotten pretty good at identifying voice actors.. maybe i'll dig out my VCR sometime and watch it just for fuks sake and see if I can identify some VAs...
maybe even get lucky and get the entire cast during the credits...sometimes they'll have a second credits reel for the english cast behind a black wall after the ED theme ends.
the second credits reel is suprisingly common nowdays too, especially with all those netflix rips floating around
 
Sep 28, 2018 5:56 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1515
NthDegree said:
@jarring I agree this argument is pointless, so I'll make this my final reply.

Oh, so you were offended? In that case let me clarify that I never insulted your intelligence. I simply pointed out that your argument was inconsistent with the definition of the word and that your previous post was riddled with fallacies. You not understanding the terms and lacking argumentative skills are not insults, but simply logical conclusions from those facts.


this actually made me laugh out loud.
You sound like some chuunibyou throwing out words from logistics hoping they stick. you don't even try to prove or argue anything. i mean it'd be one thing if you actually formed some sort of model, but you don't.
it's obviously all just a game to you, and you're here to troll.

lol all because mal won't list some co-productions.
this is why i found it silly to bring up globalization in the first place.
SMH. yes. Please.
no more replies. gtfo.
 
Sep 28, 2018 7:27 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 976
I think they should since they're not anime, but it does not matter. MAL's rules are absolute.
 
Sep 28, 2018 9:05 AM

Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1007
Nah, Chinese cartoons shouldn't be removed on MAL tho tbh.
 
Sep 28, 2018 9:06 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2003
Anime are listed here when they're linked to Japanese market.
So Chinese and Korean can be if they're diffused / linked to Japanese studios.
 
Sep 28, 2018 10:34 AM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 511
ThatRazorGuy said:
I'm fine with them staying provided Western anime-esque stuff like Avatar and Castlevania gets added too.


Sorry but that idea isn't practical.

Why Avatar and Castlevania in particular. Is it because Avatar is "like" a shonen anime?

Then, plenty of other cartoons YOU wouldn't consider "anime" are also "like" different types of anime.

For example, episodic slice of life animes set at schools MASSIVELY outnumber those Avatar-like shonen adventure animes. So, should all episodic slice of life cartoons set at schools also be added as "anime"?

EDIT: As some other examples there's the French cartoon Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug & Cat Noir, that was changed from 2D to 3D, but Toei helped create it and it uses many tropes of Japanese shoujo and magical girl shows. But, I think most people clamoring for Avatar to be added would be ... upset if Ladybug and Cat Noir was added to myanimelist, along with the SLEW of other western shows which have some vague anime-like things going on, which is almost all of them if you pick enough animes to compare them to.
Modified by cipheron, Sep 28, 2018 11:03 AM
 
Sep 28, 2018 10:37 AM
Forum Moderator
Bot Hunter

Offline
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 3925
cipheron said:
ThatRazorGuy said:
I'm fine with them staying provided Western anime-esque stuff like Avatar and Castlevania gets added too.


Sorry but that idea isn't practical.

Why Avatar and Castlevania in particular. Is it because Avatar is "like" a shonen anime?

Then, plenty of other cartoons YOU wouldn't consider "anime" are also "like" different types of anime.

For example, episodic slice of life animes set at schools MASSIVELY outnumber those Avatar-like shonen adventure animes. So, should all episodic slice of life cartoons set at schools also be added as "anime"?


I'm simply pointing out that that's the precedent having "anime" from China and South Korea sets.
One bright day in the middle of the night, two dead boys got up to fight
Back to back they faced each other, drew their swords and shot each other
A deaf policeman heard the noise and came and killed those two dead boys
 
Sep 28, 2018 10:39 AM

Offline
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1631
hazecloud said:
-Funland- said:

Who the hell told you tencent was a bad company.


I know for sure you're the first one to get blocked by me. Maybe try to tell me which part of your life I should appreciate.

lol. Dunno why you just got so butthurt. I was just asking why you said tencent was a bad company.
 
Sep 28, 2018 10:42 AM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 511
ThatRazorGuy said:
cipheron said:


Sorry but that idea isn't practical.

Why Avatar and Castlevania in particular. Is it because Avatar is "like" a shonen anime?

Then, plenty of other cartoons YOU wouldn't consider "anime" are also "like" different types of anime.

For example, episodic slice of life animes set at schools MASSIVELY outnumber those Avatar-like shonen adventure animes. So, should all episodic slice of life cartoons set at schools also be added as "anime"?


I'm simply pointing out that that's the precedent having "anime" from China and South Korea sets.


Not at all actually. The old defintion is "anime is from Japan". It's a country-of-origin based definition. Extending the definition to "anime is from Japan, Korea or China" isn't changing that to a style-based definition. ALL cartoons from Korea and China then qualify. This rules-extension doesn't give a single thing that justifies "and Avatar, and ONLY Avatar" from America.

Adding entire extra countries doesn't justify adding *specific* works from a non-listed country, based on style-based rules. The point of why THAT is bad is because there would be endless debates about how "SHOW 1" should be added as "proper anime" whereas "SHOW 2" should be excluded because it's "not anime enough". The end result would be that nobody could agree on what's in or out, since there would effectively be no rules except bias. So, we'd end up with some sort of *voting* system, with every database site having their own personal user-bases opinion of what's to be added or excluded, and trolls could come on and upvote any show they like to be added to the anime-list. Is Cory in the House an anime? If enough people upvote it, it would. The only alternative would be site-dictators adding things they feel like and ignoring/over-riding the user's votes.

For example, I want My Little Pony on here so that I can count MLP episodes in my MAL episode count. If you don't agree, you're just wrong. /sarcasm

... My argument for why My Little Pony should be included is that it's a 2D-animated episodic slice of life 4-girl ensemble series with ongoing plot elements. Episodic 4-girl slice-of-life animes vastly outnumber long running Shonen adventure series which are similar to Avatar. Let's face it: the *typical* anime is nothing like Avatar at all, they're mostly episodic school life things, either 4-girl groups or 1 guy plus 4 girls. That, and not Avatar, are actually what most animes are like. So My Little Pony qualifies as anime, based on type of show - it's just a "cute girls x things" anime, where the series gimmick is that they're ponies.
Modified by cipheron, Sep 28, 2018 11:01 AM
 
Sep 28, 2018 11:01 AM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 371
keep it, who is it harming.

>Western anime would be cool too
Feel Free to comment on my profile.
Yes, I drop anime a lot, and yes, I still like anime
 
Sep 28, 2018 11:08 AM
Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 511
>> >Western anime would be cool too

Like I said, not happening.

If it does, I among others would start demanding things like Teen Titans, Powerpuff Girls*, Slugterra, Gargoyles, Duck Tales etc, to be added too. You could come up with a good excuse why all of these things should be added, and probably a million other cartoons. (*for example Powerpuff Girls should be added on the basis that it's clearly an anime-inspired color-coded magical girl show).

Like I've said before, I have no particular dislike of any show in particular being on here, but I dislike pointless arguments.

The point is: there's no way to objectively *exclude* any shows once you start adding American things. It's either let everything in, or don't let anything in. Nobody would even agree on which shows qualify. If I wanted MLP in here then people who want Avatar in here might find that offensive, so they'll fight against me adding my show, at the same time as expecting me to support them adding their show.

But, if we start saying "ok we like that show so it's in" then the whole reality of sites like this will devolve into bickering and politics - there will be threads arguing for and against EVERY possible cartoon from being listed on here, and that won't EVER end. Think about how that will end up. It won't be as simple as some on-high voice decreeing "ok, Avatar's in, everyone happy now". That ... would just be the beginning of permanent shitfights about Avatar and EVERY other show.
Modified by cipheron, Sep 28, 2018 11:17 AM
 
Sep 28, 2018 11:44 AM

Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
Sort of. I have watched King's Avatar and it's sequel OVA. The first season felt really off for me, since it wasn't mainly directed or made by a Japanese staff. I could feel the difference through direction and animation. Oh, and language of course. The OVA, however, felt more akin to a typical anime. It was more simplistic too, so that may have helped.

But yeah, I still define anime as Japanese animation exclusively. What is defined as Japanese animation is a whole other argument in itself. Much like Anime is called Anime because it literally means animation in Japanese, Chinese animation should be called Donghua by westerners, animation in Chinese.
Welcome to club: Anime that Should Continue
http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=37045
 
Sep 28, 2018 11:50 AM
Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 122
This MAL -My Anime List. Not NCL (C - Cartoon).
I think the site is good as it is. If you want a place with everything try IMDB or one that I enjoy to keep track of things (TV Series, Cartoons & Animes) tvshow time. IT's pretty good.
perkunos.blogspot.com
 
Sep 28, 2018 12:06 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 997
this shouldnt even matter to us, and it is not for us to decide
humanity: "everyday we stray further from god"
 
Sep 28, 2018 12:19 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2060
I dont think it should be removed from MAL, but listed seperately from anime. You can add cartoon to if you want, just be sure to give it a seperate list.
"This emotion is mine alone.
It is for Madoka alone." - Homura
or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica.
 
Sep 28, 2018 12:27 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 424
guulaash said:
this shouldnt even matter to us, and it is not for us to decide

As a consumer of this site it should matter to us and the users should have some say. I just wanted to get a good feel of how many people actually agree with MAL's guidelines.
Comander-07 said:
I dont think it should be removed from MAL, but listed seperately from anime. You can add cartoon to if you want, just be sure to give it a seperate list.

Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of the website being called "My Anime List"
 
Sep 28, 2018 1:05 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2060
-SP- said:
guulaash said:
this shouldnt even matter to us, and it is not for us to decide

As a consumer of this site it should matter to us and the users should have some say. I just wanted to get a good feel of how many people actually agree with MAL's guidelines.
Comander-07 said:
I dont think it should be removed from MAL, but listed seperately from anime. You can add cartoon to if you want, just be sure to give it a seperate list.

Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of the website being called "My Anime List"

yes, but since I think the overall site is great for episodic stuff and as a database, might as well expand it. Not that I would benefit from it in any way.

But we also have manga, LNs and even music videos here. We could obviously just say anime is animated (duh) with original japanese dub, this would allow outsourced animation from china/korea but set clear borders for original chinese cartoons.
"This emotion is mine alone.
It is for Madoka alone." - Homura
or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica.
 
Sep 28, 2018 2:06 PM

Offline
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4869
first animated feature film in asia was chinese, when occupied by japan. that has earned its place in japanese and chinese media history as well as mal. cant have that deleted. plus most of early anime was based off chinese folktales anyway
 
Sep 28, 2018 2:58 PM
2199

Offline
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3046
I have to disagree with you here, bud—I believe that Chinese anime should remain on the database.

As you have correctly pointed out, creations such as RWBY are not Japanese-made and should therefore not be on the database. Following this logic, Chinese anime should be removed from the database. However, China and Japan share much closer links with each other than Japan and the West (culturally speaking). Chinese anime's art-style show much more resemblance to Japanese anime and many of them consistently have tropes that are present in many Japanese anime. For example, if I couldn't verbally or visually tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese and I watched the Chinese anime "Aishen Qiaokeli-ing..." without any volume or context, then it is likely that I would have mistaken it for a Japanese anime—the tropes, themes, and the general feel are too similar. Now, let's pretend that I didn't know that Avatar was an American production. If I watched Avatar and a similarly styled shounen anime without volume, I would have most likely made a distinction between two, concluding that Avatar was an American production and the Japanese anime was, well, Japanese.

This is the cultural difference that separates Chinese anime from western productions and is why Chinese anime should remain on the database and western productions should not be added. Chinese anime are much closer in many ways to Japanese anime, it's like (and probably is) China is trying to copy Japan's anime to expand its industry. The west just isn't trying to do this. They are trying to make more original content that is distinctive from Japanese animation in general. Have you ever seen a protagonist from a cartoon walk into a female bath?

P.S. Some Chinese anime are actually quite good.
Modified by changelog, Sep 28, 2018 3:04 PM
 
Sep 28, 2018 3:41 PM

Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 424
changelog said:
However, China and Japan share much closer links with each other than Japan and the West (culturally speaking). Chinese anime's art-style show much more resemblance to Japanese anime and many of them consistently have tropes that are present in many Japanese anime.

That's a result of imitation. It's painfully obvious that these Chinese shows try to mimic anime in terms story and animation. There are examples of the west to in regards to this, Neo Yokio was made in partnership with Japanese studios so it also shares common link to Japanese anime, thereby invalidating your argument.
 
Sep 28, 2018 3:43 PM

Offline
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 433
Honestly, the only thing I care about is adding Thunderbolt Fantasy.
 
Sep 28, 2018 3:55 PM

Offline
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1453
Chinesse shows are really similar to anime, they tend to have the same kind of animation, art, culture and stereotypes. They belong here for me. Some of them have great animation and they are improving really fast. I don't like the VAs tho, but some of them are good like in To Be Heroine/Hero 2, great show.
 
Sep 28, 2018 4:09 PM

Offline
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 99
MohAngelo said:
In my opinion, any Animation which isn't made in Japan is an abomination


I guess you haven't seen the King's Avatar then.

-SP- said:
Platypus7 said:
The definition saying it refers to only Japanese animation is outdated, or soon to be, because less and less people are using it to mean that.

Maybe less and less people in the Anime community are using it to reference Japanese animation, but regular people who don't watch Anime still typically associate Anime with Japan. I think it should stay this way, other countries should find their own style and come up with their own terms.

Seiya said:
Yes.

If Chinese/Korean Animation isn't initially geared towards a Japanese audience, it cannot be called "Anime." They removed the 1994 Mega Man series, so Chinese/Korean animation should be removed as well, because it's not Anime.

Quanzhi Fashi isn't on ANN, so why should it be on MAL?

I agree with this, it should be strictly Japanese Anime only, not rip-offs from other countries.


As someone that prefers to only watch quality anime, and not care so much about the country of origin...I'd have to respectfully disagree. Amazing series are few enough as it is, I'd rather not lose out on more.

If Quanzhi Gaoshou wasn't on MAL I would never have known about it and missed one such an amazing series.
“Ha ha, the synergy between my left and right hand made them feel scared.” Ye Xiu said.
 
Sep 28, 2018 11:05 PM

Offline
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 24804
-Funland- said:
hazecloud said:


I know for sure you're the first one to get blocked by me. Maybe try to tell me which part of your life I should appreciate.

lol. Dunno why you just got so butthurt. I was just asking why you said tencent was a bad company.


I don't like you, so maybe try to make me to accept your existence first.
 
Top
Pages (6) « 1 2 [3] 4 5 » ... Last »