| So I am wondering what you guys think in regards to Chinese "Anime". Generally people consider "Anime" to be Japanese Animated series, even someone who doesn't watch Anime will generally associate it with Japan. So for the sake of this thread we will only associate "Anime" with Japan. MAL has refused to add Avatar, RWBY and even Neo Yokio (this was co-produced with Japanese Studios including Production I.G & Studio Deen) which I agree with, since for the most part they weren't made or at least fully made in Japan in Neo Yokio's case. Although MAL doesn't have these Western shows they do have Chinese ones. Some of these aren't even co-produced by Japanese studios. So why are they on the database? So what do you guys think? Should Chinese Anime be removed? If one is allowed should they all be allowed, such as Avatar and Neo Yokio? I personally don't watch these Chinese shows, since I can't stand their awful Voice acting. As for these Western shows, I have only seen Avatar which I don't consider Anime. |
-SP-Sep 26, 2018 5:49 PM
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| Personally i wish there would be more western things added to it like those you mentioned, purely because this website is a western dominated one. At the same time i understand and support that MAL stays strict with Japanese animation though. |
 I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
Lunilah said: Personally i wish there would be more western things added to it like those you mentioned, purely because this website is a western dominated one. At the same time i understand and support that MAL stays strict with Japanese animation though. But there is a handful of Chinese Series on the website too, so they aren't really strict with only having Japanese animation. |
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| I felt forced trying it out. I do enjoy King's Avatar despite the chinese audio though so if it's chinese isekai.. Chinese user said tencent company is bad so I try to avoid it. Watching running heroes felt like a cheap attempt to make a gateway to easily reach anime fans. All in all I feel like getting used to chinese voice is an acquired taste, considering there's no real attraction to get myself drawn in like anime does. |
-SP- said: I don't know the reason they're on here, but i'm sure there is a reason. Lunilah said: Personally i wish there would be more western things added to it like those you mentioned, purely because this website is a western dominated one. At the same time i understand and support that MAL stays strict with Japanese animation though. But there is a handful of Chinese Series on the website too, so they aren't really strict with only having Japanese animation. I think the way they handle things wouldn't allow such an influx of western and other animation. Considering how long MAL was down for, how little updates the site gets, staff listings and many other things, they just aren't equipped to handle that amount of stuff in my opinion. So it's much easier and more reasonable to stay strictly anime, especially since it's still so big. |
I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
| Never encountered "Chinese anime" before, but if you go far in history, China IS kinda Japan and visa versa, hence why weebs mock anime is just being "Chinese cartoons". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Can you give us examples of these "Chinese cartoons" you speak off? I'm interessed for entertainment purposes. |
| Sorry, due to licensing limitations, this message is unavailable in your region. Please come drink tea, eat cake and procrastinate at the Cute Girls Doing Cute Things Club. We have simulwatches! \o/  |
Timz0r said: Never encountered "Chinese anime" before, but if you go far in history, China IS kinda Japan and visa versa, hence why weebs mock anime is just being "Chinese cartoons". ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Can you give us examples of these "Chinese cartoons" you speak off? I'm interessed for entertainment purposes. Quanzhi Gaoshou seems to be the most popular one. I tried watching this, but after the first 10mins I dropped it. I couldn't stand the horrible voice acting. hazecloud said: I felt forced trying it out. I do enjoy King's Avatar despite the chinese audio though so if it's chinese isekai.. Chinese user said tencent company is bad so I try to avoid it. Watching running heroes felt like a cheap attempt to make a gateway to easily reach anime fans. All in all I feel like getting used to Chinese voice is an acquired taste, considering there's no real attraction to get myself drawn in like anime does. If I kept watching these Chinese series, I'm sure I would probably get used to the voice acting as well. But that being said, I could never get used to their poor quality. |
-SP-Sep 26, 2018 4:21 PM
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| MAL's policy on what they add to the database is a bit complicated. They add Korean anime as well as the Chinese stuff and possibly some others that I don't remember. Personally I'm pretty happy with adding these non-Japanese shows as they are clearly 'anime' just with different origins. Anime being used to only describe Japanese animation is just outdated at this point, there's so many shows made in other countries that follow the same style and spirit. The only reason MAL hasn't started adding 'western anime' like Avatar, RWBY, Castlevania, Neo Yokio etc. is because it's difficult to separate anime and cartoons with a clear definition so there'd be endless debates about what shows should be included. |
Platypus7 said: because it's difficult to separate anime and cartoons with a clear definition As if the double loan-word we use now doesn't already have a clear definition? |
Platypus7 said: MAL's policy on what they add to the database is a bit complicated. They add Korean anime as well as the Chinese stuff and possibly some others that I don't remember. Personally I'm pretty happy with adding these non-Japanese shows as they are clearly 'anime' just with different origins. Anime being used to only describe Japanese animation is just outdated at this point, there's so many shows made in other countries that follow the same style and spirit. The only reason MAL hasn't started adding 'western anime' like Avatar, RWBY, Castlevania, Neo Yokio etc. is because it's difficult to separate anime and cartoons with a clear definition so there'd be endless debates about what shows should be included. But they don't really need to separate them. They have Chinese and Korean shows which aren't separated. It just seems like they are nitpicking what they want, I think it should be have one or have none. |
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| For me Yes , because Anime is Japanese Animation not Chinese or Korean Animation however i haven't seen any "Anime" Chinese or Korean |
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| In my opinion, any Animation which isn't made in Japan is an abomination |
MohAngelo said: In my opinion, any Animation which isn't made in Japan is an abomination Agree with that to an extent, I just haven't seen any great non-Japanese animated shows |
|
-SP- said: If I were you, I won't even bother, Japs are just the best in this, they should just except it and stop the horrific law qulality knock-offsMohAngelo said: In my opinion, any Animation which isn't made in Japan is an abomination Agree with that to an extent, I just haven't seen any great non-Japanese animated shows |
-SP- said: Platypus7 said: MAL's policy on what they add to the database is a bit complicated. They add Korean anime as well as the Chinese stuff and possibly some others that I don't remember. Personally I'm pretty happy with adding these non-Japanese shows as they are clearly 'anime' just with different origins. Anime being used to only describe Japanese animation is just outdated at this point, there's so many shows made in other countries that follow the same style and spirit. The only reason MAL hasn't started adding 'western anime' like Avatar, RWBY, Castlevania, Neo Yokio etc. is because it's difficult to separate anime and cartoons with a clear definition so there'd be endless debates about what shows should be included. But they don't really need to separate them. They have Chinese and Korean shows which aren't separated. It just seems like they are nitpicking what they want, I think it should be have one or have none. Are you saying cartoons should be included? Keeping things completely Japanese until a way of sorting out what is classified as non-Japanese anime is decided is understandable but adding things from a set list of countries also makes sense even if it's less neat. syncrogazer said: Platypus7 said: because it's difficult to separate anime and cartoons with a clear definition As if the double loan-word we use now doesn't already have a clear definition? The fact that so many people argue about where to draw the line between western anime and cartoons means that how we use the word 'anime' at the moment isn't clear. The definition saying it refers to only Japanese animation is outdated, or soon to be, because less and less people are using it to mean that. |
| Yes. If Chinese/Korean Animation isn't initially geared towards a Japanese audience, it cannot be called "Anime." They removed the 1994 Mega Man series, so Chinese/Korean animation should be removed as well, because it's not Anime. Quanzhi Fashi isn't on ANN, so why should it be on MAL? |
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Platypus7 said: The definition saying it refers to only Japanese animation is outdated, or soon to be, because less and less people are using it to mean that. Maybe less and less people in the Anime community are using it to reference Japanese animation, but regular people who don't watch Anime still typically associate Anime with Japan. I think it should stay this way, other countries should find their own style and come up with their own terms. Seiya said: Yes. If Chinese/Korean Animation isn't initially geared towards a Japanese audience, it cannot be called "Anime." They removed the 1994 Mega Man series, so Chinese/Korean animation should be removed as well, because it's not Anime. Quanzhi Fashi isn't on ANN, so why should it be on MAL? I agree with this, it should be strictly Japanese Anime only, not rip-offs from other countries. |
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| Chinese animation IS NOT anime... it's called dong hua... they are here to just to be consistent with manhua in manga database... for another clarification, korean animation is not called anime either, it's called aeni! they also here to be consistent with manhwa... so removed chinese (which also mean korean) animation, mean they had to removed chinese manhua (and korean manhwa), which mean FUCK YOU! |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| I think they belong here, just like how manhwa belong here since they attract a similar fanbase, but they shouldn't be called anime. Just like how anime is the Japanese word for animation, donghua should be what MAL calls Chinese animations. |
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| I don't mind Chinese animation being included in MAL because that's the direction they want to take. Plus I already accomplished the goal of having 3 different franchises for each alphabet that has at least a "TV length of 1-cour" (while completing all its associated franchise entries that are canon) with Quanzhi Gaoshou. I rather not have to watch another Q franchise just because. Would I prefer they include Western animation? Yes. Is it realistic? Obviously not. |
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zombie_pegasus said: I think they belong here, just like how manhwa belong here since they attract a similar fanbase, but they shouldn't be called anime. Just like how anime is the Japanese word for animation, donghua should be what MAL calls Chinese animations. Never knew that, well then I think MAL should make it clear and separate it from the Anime. |
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| No. That would mean hundreds of hours of work just to undo previous hundreds of hours of work. I'd rather the mods spend their time on more productive matters than that. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Pullman said: No. That would mean hundreds of hours of work just to undo previous hundreds of hours of work. I'd rather the mods spend their time on more productive matters than that. Like? The updates on this site are usually very minor. The site contradicts itself by not allowing non-Japanese animation when it comes to western series, but then has these Chinese and Korean shows. |
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-SP- said: Quanzhi Gaoshou seems to be the most popular one. I tried watching this, but after the first 10mins I dropped it. I couldn't stand the horrible voice acting. Thanks! These shows from that indeed Chinese studio sure does look like for when I feel like watching something cringy! :-D Phosphophilite said: There’s no reason to remove them, but Mal needs to have clear distinction between those and regular anime. For manga, Chinese made one is Manhua, and Korean made one is Manhwa. This distinction should be applied to animation as well. I only want this if they name it "Chinese cartoons" and "Korean cartoons". Just for the lulz. |
| Sorry, due to licensing limitations, this message is unavailable in your region. Please come drink tea, eat cake and procrastinate at the Cute Girls Doing Cute Things Club. We have simulwatches! \o/ |
-SP- said: Pullman said: No. That would mean hundreds of hours of work just to undo previous hundreds of hours of work. I'd rather the mods spend their time on more productive matters than that. Like? The updates on this site are usually very minor. DB mods don't work on updates tho? None of the mods do? That's DeNa which are totally different people who don't even have on-site people. If you really have to ask what work DB mods do you know so little about how this site operates that I wonder why you think you're in a position to suggest improvements. First you gotta know how stuff actually works, no offense. In any case they do everything related to the DB. Every data in every anime and manga entry gets looked up or double checked by them. Every character, voice actor, staff member manually added to every anime they're in. New pages for new anime or new people or new characters need to be created. There's list of about 20 or 25 different queue categories of user submissions that mods have to check out to confirm or deny them, on top of the stuff they're already doing on their own like add new entries as soon as possible after the news announcements etc... I used to be mod for 1,5 years and there's never not ten times more to do than there is active staff members assigned. And half the site doesn't even know you exist, they think all the factual information in the DB enters and doublechecks itself :>. That's also really the main practical reason for the chinese and korean anime and manga being included. Early on it just developed like that and when they started making detailed guidelines there were already too many titles like that in the DB so they just decided to include those two countries rather than undo all the previous work that had already went into adding them. Since then that argument has only grown stronger sincer there are hundreds of chinese and korean anime in the DB by now, and possibly thousands of chinese/korean manga. Since they're already there, the work has already been put in, it makes more sense to keep them around at this point. It's kind of a 'why not?' deal, while the same 'why not?' on including western animation has many, many answers. And especially nowadays the distinction becomes harder to make anyway. Chinese animation studios have set up in Japan and produce chinese anime with japanese dubs basically every season now, not to mention the practice of out-sourcing a lot of (in-between) animation to countries like korea. Plus those 3 countries are often grouped together as being closely influenced by each other by historians so it's not like it's completely random. Many people say you can't really look at the history or culture of any of those three without talking a lot about the other two as well. |
AlcoholicideSep 26, 2018 6:04 PM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Remove Japanese anime since they're as bad as Chinese anime. |
-SP- said: I personally don't watch these Chinese shows, since I can't stand their awful Voice acting. I tried watching this, but after the first 10mins I dropped it. I doubt one could tell voice acting of a foreign language (unless you know Chinese) is awful after 10 minutes. For example, if I were to watch a Russian dubbed anime, there's no way I could distinguish whether it's good or bad. I understand and watched some Chinese and English dubbed anime, and I think the voice acting in Chinese is better. But on topic, there will always be gray-area no matter how you want to define "what's considered anime." Chinese and Japanese animation are too way interconnected. |
| I'm not sure cuz Ani ni Tsukeru is pretty funny. Pullman said: No. That would mean hundreds of hours of work just to undo previous hundreds of hours of work. I'd rather the mods spend their time on more productive matters than that. I agree with this. Beside the anime DB mods, there are a tons of Novel that doesn't have characters (list) on them. |
Detective1412Sep 26, 2018 6:30 PM
| It's pretty much just a holdout group of shows from before the site officially locked in their definition of anime. Removing them would be slightly more accurate but as you've mentioned it's not a huge number of them relatively speaking and you'd rarely encounter them unless you were specifically looking for them especially given most of them aren't particularly popular. As also mentioned Chinese studios are starting to collaborate or in some cases move to Japan due to the increased demand of anime in China so it's getting a bit muddy anyway. The answer is absolutely not to loosen the definition of anime because then it falls into more subjective territory where any addition could be justified. |
Pullman said: DB mods don't work on updates tho? None of the mods do? That's DeNa which are totally different people who don't even have on-site people. If you really have to ask what work DB mods do you know so little about how this site operates that I wonder why you think you're in a position to suggest improvements. First you gotta know how stuff actually works, no offense. I was under the impression you were referring to the site mod/admin. This site is probably one of the biggest Anime databases if not the biggest, I would expect it would be easily able to find help. It most likely makes over $1 mil in revenue a month so they could always hire extra people. Getting back to the topic at hand, it seem as though Chinese and Korean shows have their own terms, not Anime. So it makes no sense why they are included, even if they already Chinese and Korean Manhua and Manhwa. Which also doesn't make sense to me why the included it. I am almost positive that 80% of the users don't even know these Chinese and Korean shows/books are. GamerDLM said: I don't understand why they move to Japan if they are a Chinese company producing content for a Chinese audience, makes more sense to do it from home.As also mentioned Chinese studios are starting to collaborate or in some cases move to Japan due to the increased demand of anime in China so it's getting a bit muddy anyway. GamerDLM said: The answer is absolutely not to loosen the definition of anime because then it falls into more subjective territory where any addition could be justified. The term has become a topic of debate because suddenly people want to classify non-Japanese shows as "Anime". Anime is short for Animation, but it's still a term made by the Japanese. Should we start calling DC & Marvel comics manga by that logic? Since manga is just a term for comics in Japanese. |
-SP-Sep 26, 2018 6:40 PM
|
-SP- said: Pullman said: DB mods don't work on updates tho? None of the mods do? That's DeNa which are totally different people who don't even have on-site people. If you really have to ask what work DB mods do you know so little about how this site operates that I wonder why you think you're in a position to suggest improvements. First you gotta know how stuff actually works, no offense. I was under the impression you were referring to the site mod/admin. This site is probably one of the biggest Anime databases if not the biggest, I would expect it would be easily able to find help. It most likely makes over $1 mil in revenue a month so they could always hire extra people. Getting back to the topic at hand, it seem as though Chinese and Korean shows have their own terms, not Anime. So it makes no sense why they are included, even if they already Chinese and Korean Manhua and Manhwa. Which also doesn't make sense to me why the included it. I am almost positive that 80% of the users don't even know these Chinese and Korean shows/books are. Hah, if any money was spent on mods that would sure be dandy. But no, they all work for free. If you want to talk about money, write to DeNa customer support. They are the ones who own the site and make all the financial and programming decisions and you can't even reach them via MAL, only via their customer service. MAL staff and DeNa are really two almost separate entities and as a user and even a lower-tier mod it is almost impossible to have any direct interaction with DeNa, the ones making the decisions. I'd be all for paid staff members, but good luck making that happen. That's hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to do stuff that already largely gets done by volunteers for zero pay. And if you still don't understand why things are like they are and why it's unreasonable to demand undoing thousands of hours of work after the detailed explanation I gave you in the previous post then I can only question your reading comprehension or conclude that you don't care about understanding the historical context and arguments in favor or the status quo in the first place and just want to be against it no matter what and o matter how much sense that makes given the situation the DB is already in. In either case, I've said all there is to say. You can either understand and accept it like everyone else who's informed themselves on the topic, or stay stubborn about it, I don't care. It won't make a difference either way tbh. I know how this topic ends, seen it too many times before. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| purist mindset you got there lol, if m in charge of MAL i will let every animation be added to the database considering the literal definition of anime is just animation in the japanese dictionary anyway so stuff like Avatar and Disney animation movies are called anime in japan too, the only downside is the growth of the database because of that needs a lot of moderators too |
| I think they should keep these and add western stuff as well like RWBY and Avatar and such. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
ForestBalrog said: -SP- said: But they don't really need to separate them. They have Chinese and Korean shows which aren't separated. It just seems like they are nitpicking what they want, I think it should be have one or have none. Although I don't really watch much western animation, I agree with this statement 100%. It makes no sense that they add Chinese and Korean animation and seems contradictory to me if they won't add any western "anime". except it does, I clearly explained already how this situation came to be and why it is unreasonable to want to change it at this point. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
zombie_pegasus said: then again, MAL calls even novels manga xDI think they belong here, just like how manhwa belong here since they attract a similar fanbase, but they shouldn't be called anime. Just like how anime is the Japanese word for animation, donghua should be what MAL calls Chinese animations. |
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| I don't particularly care either way, but some of the very few Chinese animated shows I've seen are pretty good and I don't mind the likes of Quanzi Gaosho and Condor Hero padding my list. |
KruszerApr 5, 2019 12:29 PM
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
-SP- said: Pullman said: DB mods don't work on updates tho? None of the mods do? That's DeNa which are totally different people who don't even have on-site people. If you really have to ask what work DB mods do you know so little about how this site operates that I wonder why you think you're in a position to suggest improvements. First you gotta know how stuff actually works, no offense. I was under the impression you were referring to the site mod/admin. This site is probably one of the biggest Anime databases if not the biggest, I would expect it would be easily able to find help. It most likely makes over $1 mil in revenue a month so they could always hire extra people. Getting back to the topic at hand, it seem as though Chinese and Korean shows have their own terms, not Anime. So it makes no sense why they are included, even if they already Chinese and Korean Manhua and Manhwa. Which also doesn't make sense to me why the included it. I am almost positive that 80% of the users don't even know these Chinese and Korean shows/books are. GamerDLM said: I don't understand why they move to Japan if they are a Chinese company producing content for a Chinese audience, makes more sense to do it from home.As also mentioned Chinese studios are starting to collaborate or in some cases move to Japan due to the increased demand of anime in China so it's getting a bit muddy anyway. GamerDLM said: The answer is absolutely not to loosen the definition of anime because then it falls into more subjective territory where any addition could be justified. The term has become a topic of debate because suddenly people want to classify non-Japanese shows as "Anime". Anime is short for Animation, but it's still a term made by the Japanese. Should we start calling DC & Marvel comics manga by that logic? Since manga is just a term for comics in Japanese. When there's a sudden large increase for demand for a product that requires some level of skilled or trained labor then it's probably more profitable to go straight to the source instead of trying to develop an industry in their own country. |
GamerDLM said: -SP- said: I was under the impression you were referring to the site mod/admin. This site is probably one of the biggest Anime databases if not the biggest, I would expect it would be easily able to find help. It most likely makes over $1 mil in revenue a month so they could always hire extra people. Getting back to the topic at hand, it seem as though Chinese and Korean shows have their own terms, not Anime. So it makes no sense why they are included, even if they already Chinese and Korean Manhua and Manhwa. Which also doesn't make sense to me why the included it. I am almost positive that 80% of the users don't even know these Chinese and Korean shows/books are. I don't understand why they move to Japan if they are a Chinese company producing content for a Chinese audience, makes more sense to do it from home. The term has become a topic of debate because suddenly people want to classify non-Japanese shows as "Anime". Anime is short for Animation, but it's still a term made by the Japanese. Should we start calling DC & Marvel comics manga by that logic? Since manga is just a term for comics in Japanese. When there's a sudden large increase for demand for a product that requires some level of skilled or trained labor then it's probably more profitable to go straight to the source instead of trying to develop an industry in their own country. Bu they are adapting Chinese comics or novels, so it still doesn't make sense to go to Japan. |
|
-SP- said: GamerDLM said: When there's a sudden large increase for demand for a product that requires some level of skilled or trained labor then it's probably more profitable to go straight to the source instead of trying to develop an industry in their own country. Bu they are adapting Chinese comics or novels, so it still doesn't make sense to go to Japan. They're still hiring a more skilled and trained group of animators, directors, etc in large quantities. I'll use a real world example with say Reikenzan. Why go to make a new studio when you can just co-produce it with Studio Deen which has been making anime since the 1980s and has like 100 franchises to their name and get a style that's surging in popularity in recent years in the home country of China while also adapting a popular Chinese source material. |
| I hate chinese anime so yes, they should be removed and never allowed onto MAL. |
| Hmmm good point. I never thought about it before. Anime is hand-drawn or computer animation originating from or associated with Japan. So technically, you wouldn’t use "anime" for the term of a Chinese animation. You can call Chinese anime as Donghua or Chinese comic as Manhua. So why are they on the database? In my opinion, because there are some Chinese animation made with high-quality Japanese-styled, so they are considered as anime. Should Chinese Anime be removed? Idk. I've only ever watched King's Avatar, so i don't have enough references to answer. |
| A lot of the novelty to Anime is that it's a foreign concept; it's an escape into something outside of our culture. Whether it comes from Japan, China, or Korea doesn't matter. But when you put an American series into the mix, Anime-style/inspired or not, it ruins that that special feel since we're already so driven by American entertainment (even for non-Americans). That and I'm sure they don't want to set precedent and having to deal with the "WHY ISN'T ADVENTURE TIME IN THE DB?" threads that would undoubtedly appear (unironic ones). That's my guess, anyway. Personally I don't care what's added or removed in terms of non-Japanese animation/art. |
| Yeah OP, u are right. Chinese anime are cancer, they should be eradicated. |
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| It doesn't really matter to me because I only watch japanese animation. |
| Life Is Short But Intense. |
| It's kinda stupid to imply Chinese "anime so much and I don't know why should they remove. They're still anime and MAL only accepts eastern anime so we don't have only Japanese and Chinese anime but also Korean anime. If not eastern, then they only accept anime entries within those three regions that I mentioned. You should ask MAL why they don't accept western animation instead of it seems you're whining that Chinese(And you might want to include Korean as well) anime should be removed here. >So for the sake of this thread we will only associate "Anime" with Japan. No. |
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