StormString88 said: Kill everyone that does a crime. All that will be left will be people who are 100% incapable of doing a crime. jay walking a crime most people do it. littering a crime. watching anime online a crime in some countries. prating anime is also a crime. you going to put to death the mother who steals candy form a story to feed there starving children? if you start putting to death everyone for every little crime. then you better be ready to kill the entire human race. if you put to death everyone that does a crime. all that will be left is no one not a single person. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
Kled11 said: lol most people who are for it are just wannabe Light Yagamies great back-to-back posts lmao i really should watch death note one of these days... |
  ｍａｌ'ｓ ＣＹＢＥＲ ｒａｃｃｏｏｎ ＣＹＢＥＲ ｂｏｏｐ ! ｆｒｏｍ ｔｈｅ ｄｉｓｔａｎｔ ｙｅａｒ ｏｆ ２０２６ ｔｈｅＣＹＢＥＲ ｐｏｌｉｃｅ ａｒｅ ａｆｔｅｒ ｍｅ ! |
_Nemrod_ said: In reality, it's maximizing utility to society. The outcome of the prisoner is not a factor. Let's see the facts. I'll assume you're from America for the purposes of this.What you seem to see as justice, in reality, is mercy. The first one is the obligation of civil society while the second one is the obligation of Christians. I am not a Christian. 1. Due process was baked into our Constitution because we realized there needs to be a power check on the government to prevent them from doing whatever they want to citizens. It's a necessary right to protect, not murderers necessarily, but you and me. It applies to criminals in order to protect non-criminals. 2. In order to protect due process and our right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, the death penalty requires the ability to appeal. 3. The ability to appeal involves lawyers, and ties up the prosecution and court system. The translates into costs that you pay, up to 20 times the amount it takes the feed a prisoner for life. 4. Meanwhile, because of human rights, executions are carried out with 3 shots, to knock you out, to eliminate pain, and then to shut down the nervous system. If anything, the death penalty is mercy compared to life in prison. 5. A person put to death has no contribution to society. Instead, prisoners who work, write, or teach (i.e. about the realities of gang membership to youths) have net positive utility to society. 6. Due to prosecution corruption, many confessions of guilt are coerced, due to lack of competent legal representation, falsified evidence, emotional witnesses, racism, etc. So in essence, by supporting the death penalty, what you're really supporting is wasting tax dollars forcing convicted murderers to take the easy way out, while lowering the safety of ordinary citizens. That's not really mercy or justice. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
Aster- said: Kled11 said: lol most people who are for it are just wannabe Light Yagamies great back-to-back posts lmao i really should watch death note one of these days... funny how all these Light worshipers forget one thing StormString88 said: They either don't do it or get killed. watching anime online a crime in some countries. Then move.you going to put to death the mother who steals candy form a story to feed there starving children? Should've worked harder to earn it or thought about having kids then. to bad most people are going to jay walk anyway. and if you shoot some one crossing the street and try to justify it you will be killed by your own law, because in the eyes of the majority your crime would be more heinous. little kids will do it old men will blind people everyone. you can't enforce that kind of authoritarian government. try that and you will be dragged across the streets like a certain dictator in Italy. if you start handing out death for every little crime you won't be able to maintain order. i do not like violence, but i do know human nature enough to know that by making laws where the punishment is death for the smallest misdemeanor you create a system designed to breed rebellion. and in the end everyone loses. |
GrimAtramentNov 10, 2018 10:02 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
StormString88 said: @hazarddex Yes you can enforce that kind of authoritarian government with today's technology, it's just that people who work for the Government only care about their pensions. If you had a motivated enough group you could. Though you don't need a government to do it, you can have something like Sharia law where the tribe or etc deals out the punishment. You know, like how they chop off your arm if you steal a potato in Africa. Imagine if in a supermarket someone tries to steal stuff and the people next to them grab them and cut off their arm, that's what they do there. Just with killing them. Make it so they *have* to do it. People want safety and security above all else. If they realize that this would offer security and safety then they would do it. people still commit crimes in places with sharia law though? lmao once the eu bans memes would we take a finger per like it gets? |
ｍａｌ'ｓ ＣＹＢＥＲ ｒａｃｃｏｏｎ ＣＹＢＥＲ ｂｏｏｐ ! ｆｒｏｍ ｔｈｅ ｄｉｓｔａｎｔ ｙｅａｒ ｏｆ ２０２６ ｔｈｅＣＹＢＥＲ ｐｏｌｉｃｅ ａｒｅ ａｆｔｅｒ ｍｅ ! |
StormString88 said: @hazarddex Yes you can enforce that kind of authoritarian government with today's technology, it's just that people who work for the Government only care about their pensions. If you had a motivated enough group you could. Though you don't need a government to do it, you can have something like Sharia law where the tribe or etc deals out the punishment. You know, like how they chop off your arm if you steal a potato in Africa. Imagine if in a supermarket someone tries to steal stuff and the people next to them grab them and cut off their arm, that's what they do there. Just with killing them. Make it so they *have* to do it. People want safety and security above all else. If they realize that this would offer security and safety then they would do it. those kind of regimes never last. for the simple reason that kind of law doesn't give people safety or security. that the reason most countries other then authoritarian don't do it. by doing this you give the people one singular threat. and when one singular threat exist and they can point to it. what do you think will happen next? also that japan your thinking of with the stealing and arm cutting off. they did that during the feudal era, give you one guess to why it stopped. also there a reason sharia law is not popular among a majority of people. the only reason it has any amount of power over its people is because its a religious order. and even then it won't last for Islam. it didn't last for Christianity. how do you think Protestants came to being? also the fact that people still get there arms cut of or killed proves the system doesn't work. in fact as far as sharia laws concerned the cracks are already showing. |
GrimAtramentNov 10, 2018 10:42 PM
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
| Most laws are being abused. Just imagine if this was a thing. It would be good idea for a mystery novel. Killers who would frame others to get a death sentence. |
 |
| I'm against it solely for the reason that the convicted aren't always guilty. It's better for a society to let a hundred guilty live than to kill one innocent. The innocent shouldn't be offered up as sacrifices just to extinguish the anger of the just. I don't believe that death penalty only aids the criminals or is completely ineffective. Those studies have only been done on certain Western societies and may not hold true for others. My disagreement is based solely on moral grounds. toowicked said: Iraq, Pakistan, China, Iran and Saudi Arabia are doing it a lot, they didn't get much result, did they? What results were you expecting? |
| I am, because I don't think it's fair to people who work and pay their taxes are still required to sustain often those responsible for the death of their children. |
Fallen_ShadowNov 11, 2018 7:59 AM
 |
Aster- said: StormString88 said: @hazarddex Yes you can enforce that kind of authoritarian government with today's technology, it's just that people who work for the Government only care about their pensions. If you had a motivated enough group you could. Though you don't need a government to do it, you can have something like Sharia law where the tribe or etc deals out the punishment. You know, like how they chop off your arm if you steal a potato in Africa. Imagine if in a supermarket someone tries to steal stuff and the people next to them grab them and cut off their arm, that's what they do there. Just with killing them. Make it so they *have* to do it. People want safety and security above all else. If they realize that this would offer security and safety then they would do it. people still commit crimes in places with sharia law though? lmao once the eu bans memes would we take a finger per like it gets? Last time I checked, stealing in saudi arabia is not common because of the punishment for theft. |
  |
hazarddex said: funny how all these Light worshipers forget one thing StormString88 said: They either don't do it or get killed. Then move. Should've worked harder to earn it or thought about having kids then. to bad most people are going to jay walk anyway. and if you shoot some one crossing the street and try to justify it you will be killed by your own law, because in the eyes of the majority your crime would be more heinous. little kids will do it old men will blind people everyone. you can't enforce that kind of authoritarian government. try that and you will be dragged across the streets like a certain dictator in Italy. if you start handing out death for every little crime you won't be able to maintain order. i do not like violence, but i do know human nature enough to know that by making laws where the punishment is death for the smallest misdemeanor you create a system designed to breed rebellion. and in the end everyone loses. Well, if you kill someone deliberately, then you deserve the death sentence. |
| |
| The death penalty in place for only severe crimes such as murder and rape, unless we discover that the perpetrator is mentally ill - in this case they wouldn't be at fault. Also you need to thoroughly evaluate the case if there is even a 1% chance that they didn't commit these crimes it's better to put them in prison. As much as we want to give these folks a second chance, often they would just re-offend after release, damaging society, and keeping them in prison is a waste of resources. |
| Useless measure imo. It just means revenge... |
| The death penalty does not work as retribution, reformation (which would not be a goal for most of those that deserve death row anyway) or as a deterrent to committing crime. As these should be the main three aims of the legal system in my eyes, then the death penalty is lacking. Texas, a state that has a death penalty, also has one of the highest murder rates in the US. As such, it does not deter people from committing murder. Long prison stints, which would include having all too much time to linger on the feelings of guilt, would serve as a much harsher punishment in my eyes. (I'm ignoring the fact that prison systems in America are overcrowded, mainly due to them being private which has lead to it being better for them to keep prisoners in jail.) Death cannot be redacted, unlike a prison sentence. Sometimes, people are declared guilty when they are truly innocent. This means that in the case of them receiving the death penalty, it is possible that they could die before they can be considered innocent if any new evidence comes to light. |
 |
katsucats said: _Nemrod_ said: In reality, it's maximizing utility to society. The outcome of the prisoner is not a factor. Let's see the facts. I'll assume you're from America for the purposes of this.What you seem to see as justice, in reality, is mercy. The first one is the obligation of civil society while the second one is the obligation of Christians. I am not a Christian. 1. Due process was baked into our Constitution because we realized there needs to be a power check on the government to prevent them from doing whatever they want to citizens. It's a necessary right to protect, not murderers necessarily, but you and me. It applies to criminals in order to protect non-criminals. 2. In order to protect due process and our right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, the death penalty requires the ability to appeal. 3. The ability to appeal involves lawyers, and ties up the prosecution and court system. The translates into costs that you pay, up to 20 times the amount it takes the feed a prisoner for life. 4. Meanwhile, because of human rights, executions are carried out with 3 shots, to knock you out, to eliminate pain, and then to shut down the nervous system. If anything, the death penalty is mercy compared to life in prison. 5. A person put to death has no contribution to society. Instead, prisoners who work, write, or teach (i.e. about the realities of gang membership to youths) have net positive utility to society. 6. Due to prosecution corruption, many confessions of guilt are coerced, due to lack of competent legal representation, falsified evidence, emotional witnesses, racism, etc. So in essence, by supporting the death penalty, what you're really supporting is wasting tax dollars forcing convicted murderers to take the easy way out, while lowering the safety of ordinary citizens. That's not really mercy or justice. @katsucats The points you have mentioned have to do with the law and social convenience, however these two are not what determine moral valuation of the death penalty. When I speak about justice, I speak about justice coming from morals since this one transcends man. Legal is only licit to the extent that it is subordinated to Morality. I am forced to separate my convenience from the moral, because it is not uncommon for morality to clash with our personal or social convenience. For example, on a personal level, I support euthanasia for certain cases, however I am aware that favoring it is immoral. I can tell the same about revenge, since I favor it for certain cases even though I am aware that such behavior is immoral. I agree with you that life imprisonment is much worse than the death penalty; in fact, my vengeful spirit is more pleased with the suffering produced by life imprisonment than with the short anguish caused by the death penalty. However, it is clear that if certain criminals deserve life imprisonment it is because they also deserve death penalty; for that reason if a criminal prefers life imprisonment than death penalty (and there are many) he would be receiving mercy from the civil authority because it would not be moral injustice to take his life since his irreparable crime makes him a subject worthy of death. Naturally there must be absolute certainty of the criminal's guilt, otherwise the death penalty would be a moral injustice. On the other hand, the application of death penalty is not only fair when the criminal deserves to die, but also is useful for society. One of the reasons that makes me support the application of the death penalty, is because there are many people who are much more afraid of death than life imprisonment because it is common for death to be perceived as a definitive end. Hence, the civil authorities of the different historical civilizations instilled reasonable fear with the death penalty, because the fear of losing life is usually the only effective brake on certain types of people. The application of the death penalty is also particularly useful when we speak about criminals who love to cause death, harm and suffering to others, because the death penalty is the only infallible means of putting society safe from this type of monsters, since sometimes life imprisonment is not enough because there is always the possibility of eloping. |
_Nemrod_Nov 11, 2018 2:10 PM
 |
DepravedMagi said: hazarddex said: funny how all these Light worshipers forget one thing to bad most people are going to jay walk anyway. and if you shoot some one crossing the street and try to justify it you will be killed by your own law, because in the eyes of the majority your crime would be more heinous. little kids will do it old men will blind people everyone. you can't enforce that kind of authoritarian government. try that and you will be dragged across the streets like a certain dictator in Italy. if you start handing out death for every little crime you won't be able to maintain order. i do not like violence, but i do know human nature enough to know that by making laws where the punishment is death for the smallest misdemeanor you create a system designed to breed rebellion. and in the end everyone loses. Well, if you kill someone deliberately, then you deserve the death sentence. to prove killing is wrong you kill them? |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
Have you heard of the saying, “an eye for an eye?” How would you feel if someone you loved and cared about was murdered? |
| |
Twinkle said: keeping them in prison is a waste of resources. It's been covered multiple times in this thread that capital punishment is many times more costly than life imprisonment. DepravedMagi said: Have you heard of the saying, “an eye for an eye?” How would you feel if someone you loved and cared about was murdered? I know I'm repeating what myself and others have said, but: An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. Two wrongs don't make a right. Revenge is not justice; it's just primitive emotion-based thinking. Their lives are not yours to take, even if they violated the rights of others. There is no rational reason to kill another person unless you're backed into a corner, your life is in immediate danger, and you are acting in direct self-defense. |
 |
| I'm ok with the death penalty. It's mostly the scum of the scum anyways. Why keep them rotting in prison? If they somehow manage to get out, they're likely to re-offend. |
| woah there |
| Reserved fore exceptionally heinous crimes such as terrorism or serial murder. Even then, only after there is overwhelming evidence that the individual is guilty, and he or she must be executed in the most humane way possible. |
DepravedMagi said: What do you think of the death penalty? Do you support it or are you against it? I think it has its place. Mass/serial killers for example. |
DepravedMagi said: Have you heard of the saying, “an eye for an eye?” How would you feel if someone you loved and cared about was murdered? i have heard the saying eye for an eye usually followed by makes the world blind. i would be upset, but i'm not giving in to the other sides way of thinking. because i am better then them. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus |
| Seeing how many people desire certain criminals' death just proves we're still uncivilized. Not long ago, public execution was a thing. People would gather to watch others die. And no matter how time passes, we still remain vengeful creatures. I'd personally like someone who wronged me pay for their crimes, not kill them. Wanting to kill them only proves we're no different than them. |
|
| As long as we are not able to say with 100% accuracy if someone is guilty or not, I'm against it. If someone serves 10 years in prison and people then find out that he's actually innocent, he at least has years of his life left to live. Death is final. |
KanaAoi said: Seeing how many people desire certain criminals' death just proves we're still uncivilized. Not long ago, public execution was a thing. People would gather to watch others die. And no matter how time passes, we still remain vengeful creatures. I'd personally like someone who wronged me pay for their crimes, not kill them. Wanting to kill them only proves we're no different than them. That's justice. People that intentionally kill innocent people deserve to die. Another innocent death is avoided if you kill the murderer. We must be strict. |
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
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