Shoujo☆Kageki Revue Starlight Episode 10 Discussion

Jacob194 said:

Claudine got beaten by Maya at ep 2, and beaten by Karen at ep 8, at ep 5 she most likely won against Hikari.

The only 2 combinations that we haven't seen are Maya vs Hikari or Karen vs Hikari (or maybe even a 4 way fight between the top 4 stars since it's the last day).

The anime threw the rule book ages ago so I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a 4-way fight or a 2v2.

RobertBobert said:
Hello. I temporarily on-hold this show, since I missed the second and third episodes, so I wanted to ask is it worth it to wait for the full release of the series, or is it worth it to restore the ongoing's watching?

Jacob194 said:


You mean you're still on episode 1?

RobertBobert said:


On episode 2. I read a lot about this show and I know the story in general terms, but I don't know if I should wait for the release, or watch already released 2-10 episodes.

Jacob194 said:

Hikari might pull a madoka next episode..?
Hikari's stage is probably gonna be a stage without her so she doesn't steal Karen's kirameki.. from there... We'll see.

Revvie-chan said:
Erm.. wait isn't this supposed to be 12 episodes?
Since now they basically just leave Tendou & Claudine's story in a very unsatisfying, almost bullsh*t ending, and then the fated duel is skipped, what could happen in 2 episodes?

Hikari clearly never regained the memory she had lost, thus leaving my perception over episode 8 wrong. She also never regained her reasoning of why she became a stage girl.
But Hikari also said it: She can't take away Karen's shine.
The Starlight plot is clear: Flora has to go blind for Claire to get her memory back.
Under the matching, Karen is Flora (so Karen has to lose) and Hikari is Claire (for Hikari to get her memory back.) Which is what happened with Karen losing.

But Hikari said she can't steal Karen's shine. So she probably has a good reason that doesn't involve Karen losing permanently, or even anyone from losing permanently. Means that she's looking for a way so that she can get what she wants, and Karen doesn't lose her change to get her own dream.
A Madoka-like ending will make sense if we only have 1 or even less than 1 episode, as you can just leave the story just right there.
But we still have 2 episodes. (supposedly.)

... is Hikari planning to ask for the same thing that Banana asked? A repeat for her own audition with different outcome? 0 0
Bcs that's the only scenario that is big enough to fit 2 episodes. Unless more flashback or more Karen magic.



Sorry, just want to ask: we still have 2 episodes left, right?
Bcs now I'm confused as to know how this could go on.

Revvie-chan said:
Erm.. wait isn't this supposed to be 12 episodes?

Jacob194 said:


Yes 2 episodes left.. I don't think it's gonna be like Claire and Flora.. since I'm pretty sure Hikari never really lost memory of Karen, she forgot the reason she became a stage girl but not for too long.. anyway I think Maya and Claudine's ending was satisfying for me since they ending up "making up" with each other or at least were honest with each other.

I have a theory for what's gonna happen.. I think Hikari will pull off a madoka like wish for a stage without her (like the opening song) in a way so that Karen doesn't lose her shine (prolly having to do with Karen being top star like the opening again)... Basically Hikari will dissapear and things will go on normally for the girls for about an episode or half untill Karen remembers her promise with Hikari and she'll win the next auditions and wish to meet Hikari again... Tho this might be a bit rushed for 2 episodes but it could work.

RobertBobert said:


The story of the musical is still going on, and the franchise is very popular, so I would not be surprised if they announce the second season similarly to LoveLive and Bandori.

Revvie-chan said:

Yes it could also work like that. We'll see.
Thanks, btw.


Heh?
if you mean Takarazuka Revue, in overall.
then yes, Takarazuka is famous.

Yes the musical will have another run soon.
But afaik it's not that popular.
Or, well, it was not. People came because tons of Takarazuka people in it, yes.
But this project itself, afaik, is separated from Takarazuka itself. It's a Bushiroad project. (as you have said as well.)
And before this anime, afaik, I don't think many people talked about it. Not in Japan's internet board, not east, nor west. Once again, note, it's only as far as I know, so I could be wrong.
The play were still packed, yes, but so is every idol project with big company backing on it.


Maybe, after this anime, they will sell more. Who knows?
I surely hope so, at the least.

Revvie-chan said:
@RobertBobert yes I hope so. I guess we'll pray for its success.

@Jacob194 that list lists raw yen totals, which is not a really good indicator.
But I am aware of the size of LL! (and also of its current decline, Aqours doesn't sell as good as Muse) and of other Bushiroad idol ventures.
I'm sure you already know, but a strategy of Bushiroad in this idol genre is to provide various kinds of idol, to compete with other idol franchise which usually is linear (and more of a mirror to the modern business model of idol industry in Japan.)
LL for school idol, Bandori for bands, and now Shoujo Kageki for stage play.

LL was a miracle. (In their own words. That's how they said it in the final live.)
Bandori was destined for failure, before then the game single-handedly saved it and, thanks to LL fans migrating to Bandori, it's now big and ready for the world.
Shoujo Kageki, they sure got money to get such a cast and staff for the play, but we can only pray. I see the talks around Ikuhara influence, but it's different sort of talk to what LL had when it got its miracle breakthrough.


ps.: Actually, imo the real fandom only got big after Banana episode.
I don't know which character will end up big, but judging from the polls here at MAL, I guess it'll be a ride in the Banana boat lol.

Tarotist said:
A 2v2 duet battle eh? Well then...The power of talent vs. the power of gay...

Hehehe. What a way to get shot down Kaoruko...git gud!

I do have one complaint...how come only Karen gets the transformation scene?

Revue of Fate...If one loses the cloak, the team loses? Oh my...looks like the power of Gay is going to be a lot more important than talent here...

Aaand...I was right...

Hehe...Maya knows French too...Welp, so much for Claudine. All she was was second-banana to Maya...

Straight to the Revue of Tragedy...and Hikari delivers the finishing blow to become the Top Star...

But this is only episode 10. Now since they're trying to change Starlight, I can only guess that Karen will climb back up from her fall to ensure that they will both be the top star together. Or maybe Hikari's wish will be for her and Karen to perform together. Something is going to change, and based on how this show's been progressing, it will end on a positive note where everyone is happy...

CHC said:
Great music. I love the scene where Karen throw herself off into the air for Hikari to catch her.

But it is a bit sad to see a very promising project is encumbered by production issues so typical in the industry.
This show would definitely be a 9/10 for me if it could keep its production quality on the level of ep.1-6 throughout the entire show.

(Read sakugabooru blog on it if you don't already know what the issue has been.
Basically the production team couldn't find enough genga artists from outside, so they had to reuse a lot of genga artists who were already exhausted by animating the first few episodes. They seriously needed a break.)

The climax of the fight was certainly well-done, but we also see a lot of static frames.
And one of the most interesting part of the fights of this show has been its inventive stage design, but in this and the last episode the team had to give up on animating complicated stage mechanics like they did excellently before.

Nonetheless, it's not like these two episodes were bad. In my opinion, they are still better than most of the shows of this season in terms of production.
It's just that they could have been much better if there were a better production environment.
But let's see how the finale will go!

Revvie-chan said:
E
Hikari clearly never regained the memory she had lost, thus leaving my perception over episode 8 wrong. She also never regained her reasoning of why she became a stage girl.

Limechan said:
Although it was a great episode, am I the only one kinda frustrated that Claudine didn't get much individual focus when it comes to singing? I believe this was her only song and, while it was great, it was split between 4 characters.

I'm hoping this franchise grows enough to justify each character having their own solos, duets, etc.

JGChaves said:


Pretty sure Hikari never lost her memories, only her passion and motivation to be a stage girl. I mean, she clearly remembered everything from when they were 5 year old this episode.

Revvie-chan said:

She didn't lose all of it, but she lost some, including the promise, the reason why she wanted to be a stage girl, and the audition that she lost. (I know that's motivation, but that's also a part of a memory, don't you think? She's Claire, supposedly, remember?)
If she hadn't remember about Karen, then she wouldn't have remembered losing the first audition, actually. (The memory about Karen itself wasn't lose completely bcs they stayed as pen pals.)

ps.: btw shit eng sub. (Revue doesn't have good Eng sub, unfortunately, although more than enough to get by the story.)
At episode 8 said she said: "Oh yes. My promise with Kare-"
in Japanese, she stopped at "yakuso-" in an aghast way. And then she said "My promise with karen... That was... What's wrong with me?" which hinted (at least to me) that she was trying to remember what is the promise. She tried to remember what happened and somehow she remembered the audition.

ps.1: I don't think she ever remember, actually. It was Karen who told her again what is the promise when they first met again back at episode 1. (watch her reaction when Karen first mentioned about the promise and when Karen pointed out about the hairclip.)
Also after I rewatch episode 8 again, I realized that it's more about Hikari finding a new reason instead, and believing in the cause again. Regardless of the past. "The reborn of her shine" the giraffe said.

TheKillerAngel said:

I believe there are some decent fansubs. Chyuu-PAS is probably the best group right now.

Revvie-chan said:

Well, the thing is: with Shoujo Kageki, with the amount of symbolism and details and multi-translation of each sentence, metaphor or non-metaphor, the usual "decent" is nowhere near good enough.
Not to reduce their effort, though. I am happy with the efforts the fansub groups have made to this anime, and to all other anime in general. Chyuu-PAS has done pretty decent job, too. And I am grateful that they're willing to take the time to sub this.

Revvie-chan said:

Well, the thing is: with Shoujo Kageki, with the amount of symbolism and details and multi-translation of each sentence, metaphor or non-metaphor, the usual "decent" is nowhere near good enough.
Not to reduce their effort, though. I am happy with the efforts the fansub groups have made to this anime, and to all other anime in general. Chyuu-PAS has done pretty decent job, too. And I am grateful that they're willing to take the time to sub this.

TheKillerAngel said:


It is still unfortunate Sentai had to put their weakest translator on this project, though.

RobertBobert said:


The story of the musical is still going on, and the franchise is very popular, so I would not be surprised if they announce the second season similarly to LoveLive and Bandori.

kamil88 said:

Not sure if its any indication, but from what i see on CDJapan http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/series/5117?opt.include_eoa=1&page=1 Lots of merchandise is already sold out, and i hope anime will sell as well, since it is really well animated, have great characters, choreopgraphy, songs...

sXeblues said:
I liked the first half of the episode, building up the characterization between Karen and Hikari, through the use of meshing their current selves with their younger selves, as they called back on those memories... And even a little of Claudine and Maya’s respect and admiration for one another, which was a nice contrast to their usual adversarial dynamic.

Where it dropped the ball once again for me, was the outcome. It was utmost predictable. And, Hikari’s own sort of emotional detachment over it, is exactly what it felt like for me, to watch it. I wish I was more invested. And I hate knowing as I watch, that if things had been done just a little bit differently, I probably would be.

Revvie-chan said:

ps.: Hikari is attached to Karen lol. Rewatch that final scene and pay attention to what she says, please.

Revvie-chan said:
Don't you think the first half, whole build up between Claudine and Maya, and their relationship, could be deeper? It's still nice as it is, but don't you think it could be longer?
I mean: Banana got three episodes. Mahiru and Futaba-Kaoruko pair got one each. Why can't Claudine and Maya got one fully dedicated to them? :(

Actually, while it is predictable, doing that predictable outcome now (when we still have 2 episodes left) would mean that for the next 2 episodes we have no idea what could be there.
Or maybe you already have an idea what could happen in the next 2 episodes? Please do share if you do, bcs right now my curiosity is killing me and thus I've been asking around for what people think.


ps.: Hikari is attached to Karen lol. Rewatch that final scene and pay attention to what she says, please.

sXeblues said:


The build up between Claudine and Maya was not merely contained to the first half of this episode, though... It’s something they have been peppering into the series, going back to episode one. Granted, there’s not much in the way of depth in their merely being continually adversarial, alongside Claudine’s obsession with trying to reach Maya’s heights, as she perceives it. But it’s been a slow burn build up that they have continually touted. And in this episode, all of that finally came to some level of fruition, with Maya’s acknowledgement and acceptance of Claudine’s efforts. Finally, that broke the veneer of what was otherwise characterized detachment and self involvement. That gave weight to what both of them have been on about and going through, since the very beginning. And gave them both some much needed personality.

Y’see, we don’t actually need whole episodes dedicated to a single character, or multiple characters, in order to develop them and make them resonate. What we need is good characterization, even in the smallest of increments.

Lemme give you an example; My favorite episode of this series thus far, is probably episode 4. Wherein, Karen and Hikari were off campus, due to some drama on Hikari’s part, and the rest of the girls in the cast had to band together to buy time, and make sure the head matron or whatever wouldn’t find out they were both still out past curfew. At one point Claudine feints being faint, so as to keep the attention of the matron, so the two girls who pretended to be Karen and Hikari asleep in their beds, can make it back to their own room in time to be seen as themselves, all the while Karen and Hikari proper are gone. And the hilarity that follows the following morning, upon their return, when you find out that the matron was actually wise to it all, the whole time.

That entire sequence gave all of the girls some wonderful characterization through the personality it imbued them with. All of those otherwise competitive, adversarial girls, worked together for the sake of the two effective mains, and it was nothing short of brilliant. Even for as little time as it all actually amounted to.

Of course, that is not to say that entire episodes meant to flesh out a character, aren’t a good way to go, too. Just look at the episode that immediately followed it, episode 5, centered around the development of Mahiru, and her jealousy over Karen’s obsession with Hikari. While it was somewhat cliched and predictable, to a point, it played to, and built off of, the expectations the viewer had already been formulating about Mahiru. And it was all wound together fairly creatively, by breaking with the ‘tradition’ up to that point of two of the girls going into combat, by having Karen and Mahiru’s face off being a chase through a bunch of the other stage girls’ fights.

Therein you had an almost perfect mesh of characterization and action. Which, following on the personality of the characterization from the episode previous, had really endeared me not only to the characters, but also to the pacing and direction of the show, up to that point.

As to the final scene of this episode, it does not bare my having to rewatch it. As once again, you note something that was not at all lost on me, the first time ‘round. Case in point, Hikari’s being ‘attached’ to Karen.

But, let’s be honest; It really only oh so much melodrama, is it not?

Of course Hikari is ‘attached’ to Karen. They’ both fairly well attached to each other — I mean, that’s what the whole first half of the episode was about. ‘Hey, look! Our two main girls have shared the same hopes and dreams of starlight since they were kids!’ — all of which we already knew, and have seen, similarly explicitly, before. But, y’know what else we’ve seen? Hikari’s cold detachment. That’s right, she hasn’t been nearly as caught up with Karen, nor their promise of reaching that starlight together, as Karen has been. We didn’t really need the episode calling back on Hikari’s former school failure to tell us that she has tunnel vision for the ‘win’ now, and won’t hold Karen so highly as Karen holds her.

And really, we didn’t need to see that sadly sympathetic, teary eyed apology from Hikari, to know that she still cares for Karen. We already know as much from Hikari’s actions in trying to stop Karen from partaking in any more of the audition stage battles. She didn’t want her to be a part of it. Both, I think it’s fairly obvious, because she wanted a clear line for herself to win the top spot, and because of the very small level of sentimentality that she carried for Karen and her own former dreams of their both doing so, together.

Now — finally — onto where it’s going to go from here... I’ll admit that I’ve no concrete idea. Because I’ve not felt nearly invested enough to want to speculate over it. But, I half expect some drawn out drama to unfold with Karen trying to process what Hikari just did to her. I assume she’ll build up the will to fight on, in spite of what happened. Either by herself, or with the help of the other girls. And either she’ll fave off against Hikari again, or she’ll in some way appeal to Hikari, and they may both turn the fight toward the giraffe, or the powers that may be above him. And/or, the final episodes will deal with the ‘Starlight’ performance proper, and Karen will end up crashing it, much in a similar fashion to how she initially stumbled onto the underground auditions. And everything will probably end with some grand estimation of their having accomplished their goal of being on stage together.

That’s the best I got for you, on a moment’s notice.

Revvie-chan said:
Yes. I realized on Maya-Claudine buildup. Which was why I was so excited for their arc. and now I'm sad.
They still finish the story (of Maya & Claudine) and it's still the right conclusion, with decent characterization, but... they actually took 3 episodes just for Nana's arc, in which 2 were for Nana as a character, and that explained a lot of stuff regarding not only the plot, but also about Nana herself. And I wanted that much of an insight towards Maya & Claudine:
About what Maya find special about Claudine that she said Claudine's the only one that can keep up with her. I wanted to know what was Maya's life before she met Claudine? (They spent a bit of time on a little dialogue that happened on Nana's head about her past. And they spent tons of time on Mahiru's past, as well as Futaba-Kaoruko's. But not Maya.) I wanted to know how that past makes Claudine stands out to Maya compared to everyone else in her past. (Well, I mean, it's sort of obvious, but I wanted it to be told.)
Also on the twist of Claudine's character (about she actually idolizes Maya so much,) which is good (although I actually predicted it,) but I wanted more explanation on how we can get from the point of "Claudine sees Maya as a competitor." to "Claudine sees Maya as her ideals and role-model."
Characterization requires dialogues, and monologues, and depictions of the actions and thoughts from the character, as well as good storytelling methods and narratives if required, and some extra twists if required. To get all of those, we need time.
Nana had 2 episodes to explain the buildup that she had and her arc was done very very well (at least for me, since I think I understood her.)
Mahiru had 1 episode to explain it too and that 1 episode was more than enough for her, as you so fluently have explained.
Futaba had buildup. Kaoruko not as much. But they got their 1 episode.
Maya & Tendou? Approximately half episode, to explain about the whole foreshadowing that had been cast above them for almost whole season. (and there's a lot foreshadowing right there!) And maybe a minute to put a conclusion their story. It still makes sense, but man it's so rushed. :(
I wanted to know just how much
So, at least for me, they still did enough. But I just can't help wanting more.

I didn't say that it's supposed to be sad. It's not. As you said and as everyone already knew from the start, the coming of the duel was obvious as f. (tbh, you keep repeating "it's so obvious" every week was sort of funny, bcs without you telling us we already knew anyway lol. Sorry.)
It could be sad, maybe, given more buildup (that's why I pushed for more buildup on Karen-Hikari back on ep 7 thread, bcs in episode 5-6-7 there was nothing of it.)
But obviously this time that isn't the route they take. Maybe, the writer saw it the same way as you did, and that's the reason why they decided to do the fated duel now and make it so short and more of a cliffhanger: bcs they have another twist coming, and that twist might deliver more feels.
It's that twist that I can't imagine. Bcs we have no hint at all (or maybe we have, and I just haven't find it yet.) And now my curiosity is killing me.

I guess no one can really guess at this point. Ah this week's going to be torture.

sXeblues said:

Well, if they’d have taken out that ridiculous Nana-centric timeloop episode, and reworked it in a different way, as I’ve said previously, they might’ve been able to give you more of the insights behind Claudine and Maya’s relationship, as you suggest... For me though, there was already enough there between the two of them, to make inferences as to how Claudine came around to idolizing her. It’s not that hard; Claudine was looking for the best of the best. She found that in Maya, and took her on as a personal challenge to try to reach. Maya reciprocated, by allowing Claudine to stand next to and train against her. And they both continued to test and task each other, each building their own level of respect and admiration for each other. There you go, it’s explained.

You said, “Characterization requires dialogues, and monologues, and depictions of the actions and thoughts from the character”. It’s that last bit, the ‘depictions of actions’ that describes the relationship between Claudine and Maya. Just watch them. Watch how they interact. See what they say, not only with words, but with their actions. And, as such, it’s all already written on the wall. Their characterization is the best depiction of subtlety this show has given. And, I really wish they knew better where to be subtle, and where not to be, than they have, overall.

You also said, “tbh, you keep repeating "it's so obvious" every week was sort of funny, bcs without you telling us we already knew anyway lol. Sorry.”

I dunno why you’re apologizing... Because what you basically said there is that you agree with me. Thank you. I’m glad I’m not the only one who finds this show to be (painfully, at times) predictable. The difference being, for me, that’s a problem. And, I guess I also find it rather perplexing how in one post you can say that where this episode left off, it is completely unpredictable what will happen next. And then, in another post, you tell me that yes, everything is and has been so obvious for everybody, from the beginning.

I think that’s a kind of, ‘having your cake and eating it too’ interpretation. It doesn’t really add up. But, since it’s kind of trying to take a dig at my particular appraisal of this show, or, more pointedly, at me, for my dislike of it, it makes a kind of sense to have to be contrary with your own points, in order to round out at about the same place. If that is indeed what you’re doing.

Incidentally, I did not say that you said the ending was supposed to be ‘sad’. And, I did not mean to suggest that it was a sad — as in a poor attempt at fitting in some kind of emotional connectivity — because of a lack of characterization between Karen and Hikari. Much as is the case with Claudine and Maya, I think we’ve gotten plenty of characterization for Karen and Hikari. In fact, that was one of the points I made in my previous response to you. It wasn’t, to my estimation, that we needed MORE characterization of them both, but that we’d already gotten quite enough.

I think the bottom line is that we’re both interpreting this show’s highs and lows from opposite ends of the spectrum. For me, while it definitely has its highs, its lows have now taken precedence in my ability to watch it with any enjoyment. For you, the opposite seems to be the case. And, that’s perfectly fine. There’s absolutely no harm in liking, or even loving, this show. For my part, I am actually somewhat gratified that you have talked in depth about the criticisms you personally have with the show. Because, even if I don’t necessarily agree with them, I can plainly see that you are actively invested in this show, but are also not so fanatical over it as to be blind to its potentially having faults. And I greatly respect that.