Overlord (light novel)
AzorAhai said: I guess this is the best possible answer. some people do like playing as complete pieces of shits. Though if you enjoy little girls getting tortured, fine with genocides on innocent civilians and senseless slaughter of any type - there is definitely something wrong with your head. (not meaning you personally) I wouldn't expect any less from a "AzorAhai". |
NecromiaSep 1, 2018 3:26 PM
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| I think as someone who had a problem with this arc in the LN and stayed with it, i should make my point about it. To me the problem is it seems out of character for ainz, who while true, is an outright villain in the LN, he's never done something both this simple, and pragmatically brutal himself, usually these are saved for the likes of demiurge or shalltear. While he is firmly a pragmatic villain, he always came across as a "do evil onto evil" kind of villain, not one who savors torment in itself, essentially ainz came off as a villain who did what needed to be done to get the job done, and nothing more or less, even in the darkest parts of the LN both before and after this, he never did anything that was so pointlessly brutal, cruel and inhuman as he is in this volume, especially since he was the one who brought them there in the first place. Basically what i'm saying is, the problem with the volume is that ainz even at his most evil, usually comes off as a pragmatic villain who only does what is needed for his goal, and doesn't let morality get in the way, it's essentially if darth vader became the joker for a volume, it's utterly jarring for most people. Personally i just think this was maruyama's attempt to point out that yes, ainz was the bad guy, even though as i said before, even at his worst he never reaches this level of pure chaotic evil again in the LN, and before anyone tries to say all of those come with some form of pragmatic villany to fulfill a goal, this comes off as needlessly cruel and even though it does lead to the dealing with the empire, this seemed to be the worst way to do it. Does it work? For some they dropped the ln so i guess so, but it doesn't really fit the character. |
Necromia said: Gator said: The workers only killed mindless skeletons in Nazarick, you can't compare that with the villagers. Those skeletons don't live, they don't talk. There was no "sentient being" there who told the workers to leave their home, they simply got baited into thinking it's just an tomb full with mindless undead. They still pillaged. Hamsuke was attacked. You really think if they ran into anyone else sentient but weaker from Nazaric they would have left them alone if it meant fulfilling more of their greed? They knew Carne village was close but decided to be discrete. They knew what they were doing was a dirty job. Gator said: Transferring your concept to the real world would mean that the researchers who explored the pyramids in Egypt should also have been killed. Your analogy is flawed. The pyramids of Egypt didn't have traps and were known to be empty. Nazaric had traps and creatures in it. It was a newly found tomb that wasn't properly investigated. They had not pillaged anything at the point of their deaths/captures. Also did you even watch the episode? Hamsuke was the one who attacked first.Do you actually think Arche's group would've just killed villagers who lived there? Don't be ridiculous. I don't take a stand for anyone outside of their group here. How do you know the pyramids are empty and have no traps if no one's ever been inside? I want a source of this if you want me to believe that. And I don't get what traps and creatures in Nazarick have to do with anything. Traps were also in the pyramids and the only creatures they found until they got utterlay massacred were mindless skeletons. Like I already said before, the moment they set foot into Nazarick, their fate was sealed. At that point they already had no way of knowing if someone lives there or not, especialy since the guy who lives there tricked them knowingly into enterting in the first place. Tatsuya said: I think as someone who had a problem with this arc in the LN and stayed with it, i should make my point about it. To me the problem is it seems out of character for ainz, who while true, is an outright villain in the LN, he's never done something both this simple, and pragmatically brutal himself, usually these are saved for the likes of demiurge or shalltear. While he is firmly a pragmatic villain, he always came across as a "do evil onto evil" kind of villain, not one who savors torment in itself, essentially ainz came off as a villain who did what needed to be done to get the job done, and nothing more or less, even in the darkest parts of the LN both before and after this, he never did anything that was so pointlessly brutal, cruel and inhuman as he is in this volume, especially since he was the one who brought them there in the first place. Basically what i'm saying is, the problem with the volume is that ainz even at his most evil, usually comes off as a pragmatic villain who only does what is needed for his goal, and doesn't let morality get in the way, it's essentially if darth vader became the joker for a volume, it's utterly jarring for most people. Personally i just think this was maruyama's attempt to point out that yes, ainz was the bad guy, even though as i said before, even at his worst he never reaches this level of pure chaotic evil again in the LN, and before anyone tries to say all of those come with some form of pragmatic villany to fulfill a goal, this comes off as needlessly cruel and even though it does lead to the dealing with the empire, this seemed to be the worst way to do it. Does it work? For some they dropped the ln so i guess so, but it doesn't really fit the character. That's exactly what my problem is as well, I fully agree. |
AzorAhai said: ThatLamp said: Mr.AzorAhai, excuse me for just suddenly appear to write a wall of text, but I want to write my take on why people enjoy episode 9. I will be the first to admit that the anime isn’t very good at explaining most of the thought process that goes into the decisions of most characters, and I want to explain in the best of my capabilities the two main reasons for why Ainz allowed the workers to come into Nazarick in the first place: 1. The first reason should have been explained when Ainz was in the throne room, all of this was an experiment to test Nazarick defense protocol, in the Ln its explained that Nazarick needs gold of Yggdrasil to repair damage done to the tomb, they wanted to test how much gold Nazarick would need to use in the case that invaders of a high rank came to raid Nazarick and made damage. 2. The second one comes more as a spoiler, so, if you want to continue Overlord blindly skip this one: Now with that out of the way we come into the subjective thing of the enjoyment. Overlord since the beginning was a dark story, and again, this doesn’t comes across in the anime but a lot of characters have tragic backstories, in the first season of overlord the driver that planed the attack on Solution and Sebas carriage, and the necromancer who planed all the things in the cemetery had decently tragic backstories, so having a character with backstories die is nothing new. My best explanation on why people like this episode is because its different. Overlord takes a different approach to the situations shown in other anime or Ln, it likes to show tragic backstories and not making them the main focus, here, the power of friendship doesn’t win what wins is raw and simple numbers, here the protagonist doesn’t go out is way to be kind, here Ainz only works for benefits. For me Overlord is a series that is just different from the rest, in a way I have seen so little shows do. Of course, if you don’t like it, that is your opinion, I will not force you to like it, I will not change the way you think, because that is what makes you, well you. If something came across as wrong or preachy I sincerely apologies for it, and if something isn’t clear enough or I just told it in a convoluted way fell free to ask. Thank you for the reply friend. No need to apologize. I see a lot was left out in the anime, but you basically state why it happened. What i'm ranting is about people enjoying unjustifiable violence and cruelty displayed in this and the last episode. The story is indeed unique, but i can't seem to be able to find a justifiable reason to like Ainz after he revealed himself to be a monster. Up to this moment me and many others were misled into thinking that Ainz was simply playing a bad guy. It turned out he's a sadist and a rotten person. I failed to find a reason to root for such creature, i mean he will continue his butchering without anny opposition. What's fun in that? It's like watching a story about unbeatable/unstoppable nazi army doing countless atrocities on their way towards world domination. Would people actually enjoy seeing how innocents are trampled and experimented on while the glorious fuhrer becomes the god of his servants? I'm sure some people would love it. I just hope it won't be top 100 highly rated stories of all time, like this one. Thank you too for the kind reply, to be honest I was a little afraid you would respond badly to my reply because most of Overlord fans I have seen on this website seem to be aggressive to anyone who disagrees with them. I must thank you, your question was an interesting thing to think on, but sadly I count come to a satisfactory conclusion to it. But I want to share my opinion in your statement of Ainz being a sadist, but after all, this is just my conclusions, and if you don’t want to read it, there is no problem, after all, this doesn’t answer the main question you have raised. I think of Ainz more of an opportunist than a sadist, for me, Ainz doesn’t have any real pleasure of harming or killing others. Ainz has never killed anyone for anything more than Nazarick, Ainz only thinks of the benefits something may bring to Nazarick, this of course is blown out of proportions by Demiurge that thinks that Ainz planned this big thing. (For example, Momon, while it was a plan to expand the name Momon to try to get in contact with another player, Demiurge latter thought that this was part of Ainz world conquering plan). The only moment when Ainz could be classified as a sadist would be the Eight Fingers raids and what happened to Foresight, but this is more to Ainz being mad that someone indirectly or directly insulted the name Ainz Ooal Gown which represent every single one of Ainz friends that by correlation insulting Ainz Ooal Gown is insulting Ainz friends. But all of this is my opinion and you are free to disagree with me, and once again sorry for giving a proper response to your question. |
Gator said: Necromia said: They still pillaged. Hamsuke was attacked. You really think if they ran into anyone else sentient but weaker from Nazaric they would have left them alone if it meant fulfilling more of their greed? They knew Carne village was close but decided to be discrete. They knew what they were doing was a dirty job. Your analogy is flawed. The pyramids of Egypt didn't have traps and were known to be empty. Nazaric had traps and creatures in it. It was a newly found tomb that wasn't properly investigated. They had not pillaged anything at the point of their deaths/captures. Also did you even watch the episode? Hamsuke was the one who attacked first.Do you actually think Arche's group would've just killed villagers who lived there? Don't be ridiculous. I don't take a stand for anyone outside of their group here. How do you know the pyramids are empty and have no traps if no one's ever been inside? I want a source of this if you want me to believe that. And I don't get what traps and creatures in Nazarick have to do with anything. Traps were also in the pyramids and the only creatures they found until they got utterlay massacred were mindless skeletons. Like I already said before, the moment they set foot into Nazarick, their fate was sealed. At that point they already had no way of knowing if someone lives there or not, especialy since the guy who lives there tricked them knowingly into entering in the first place. Their intent was to grave rob and pillage but they failed. There's not other reason they would be there. Why do you bring up killing villagers? I mentioned Carne village because it's close to Nazaric. If the workers cared about the tomb they were invading they would have asked it's neighbors. Shady missions like this is why they're forced to be workers instead of adventurers. My mistake. Most don't have traps and even if they did most have been set off. There isn't any living inhabitants inside pyramids to reset traps to keep us away. There isn't any creatures trying to keep us away. Researchers are entering pyramids that have no inhabitants for knowledge not greed. Yup, they had no way of knowing if someone lives there but they still did it. What they did was wrong and they suffered the consequences. Simple as that. |
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| First of all thanks for being polite all the time) I think of Ainz more of an opportunist than a sadist, for me, Ainz doesn’t have any real pleasure of harming or killing others. Ainz has never killed anyone for anything more than Nazarick, Ainz only thinks of the benefits something may bring to Nazarick P.S No need to keep apologizing friend. |
Necromia said: Gator said: They had not pillaged anything at the point of their deaths/captures. Also did you even watch the episode? Hamsuke was the one who attacked first.Do you actually think Arche's group would've just killed villagers who lived there? Don't be ridiculous. I don't take a stand for anyone outside of their group here. How do you know the pyramids are empty and have no traps if no one's ever been inside? I want a source of this if you want me to believe that. And I don't get what traps and creatures in Nazarick have to do with anything. Traps were also in the pyramids and the only creatures they found until they got utterlay massacred were mindless skeletons. Like I already said before, the moment they set foot into Nazarick, their fate was sealed. At that point they already had no way of knowing if someone lives there or not, especialy since the guy who lives there tricked them knowingly into entering in the first place. Their intent was to grave rob and pillage but they failed. There's not other reason they would be there. Why do you bring up killing villagers? I mentioned Carne village because it's close to Nazaric. If the workers cared about the tomb they were invading they would have asked it's neighbors. Shady missions like this is why they're forced to be workers instead of adventurers. My mistake. Most don't have traps and even if they did most have been set off. There isn't any living inhabitants inside pyramids to reset traps to keep us away. There isn't any creatures trying to keep us away. Researchers are entering pyramids that have no inhabitants for knowledge not greed. Yup, they had no way of knowing if someone lives there but they still did it. What they did was wrong and they suffered the consequences. Simple as that. I don't think this can be called grave robbing like in the real world though. In the real world are no undead killing the living in those tombs and necromancy is generally viewed as something evil. I have to admit that the whole thing of it lying in another country wasn't completely explained in my opinion so I don't know how illegal that was. Also the difference between workers and adventurers didn't seem obvious to me either. This might just have been a mistake on the adaption's part though and thus the anime-only watchers have a different view on it than you LN readers. Normally there are no living inhabitants in tombs either, I mean who would wanna live there? Usually in a world like theirs it's just mindless undead or evil necromancers. I agree what they did was wrong, but the punishment was way too hard. Though I don't necessarily have a problem with the fact that they were punished like that, but rather that Ainz actually thought this is the right thing to do. |
Their intent was to grave rob and pillage but they failed. you contradict yourself so many times, I've lost count. so did they pillage and rob, or not? There's not other reason they would be there. investigating maybe? After all, the tomb was only now discovered and no one has ever sat a foot on that soil. By your logic Columbus and/or every explorer is nothing but thieves and pillagers and never intended anything else?Why do you bring up killing villagers? I mentioned Carne village because it's close to Nazaric. wtf? it was you who for no reason mentioned this in your first reply to me and somehow linked raiders and their atrocities with the workers exploring Nazarick tomb. If the workers cared about the tomb they were invading they would have asked it's neighbors. Shady missions like this is why they're forced to be workers instead of adventurers. This is just plain stupid. The tomb was only recently discovered and nobody had any idea whether it was empty, someone's home, whether there were any riches or not. What kind of explorer would roam surrounding areas, asking locals "ergh...we just discovered a tomb nobody knew existed, so ugh do you know if someone lives there so ugh it becomes justifiable for us to enter ugh..?"Yup, they had no way of knowing if someone lives there but they still did it. What they did was wrong and they suffered the consequences. Simple as that. Since this is a game world imagine this. You play as adventurers and there's a new tomb discovered with untouched loot no one has ever seen. You are one of the first groups to arrive and you already found great reaches at the entrance? what do you do? 1)ok i had enough, let's go home and never return - said no one ever! 2)let's check out how far this place goes and how far we can go; also let's find out to whom this tomb belonged (not belongS) - A normal decision, see how pillaging and grave-robbing is never an issue here, in game worlds it never is an issue, that's what the explorers do. In this case there was never a grave to rob. Nazarick is a home of Overlord, disguised as a tomb, it's not like there are actual tombs and graves with bodies, so opening fake coffins is not what i'd call pillaging and grave-robbing. On the first floor you encounter low level skeletons, what do you do? 1)cry and leave like a coward - did no self respecting adventurer ever! or 2)laugh at the sight of weak enemies (which you for some reason tried to link with living soldiers and them getting massacred became a wrong thing to do for a reason) and venture forth. This is exactly what they did without them realizing that an average easy difficulty level dungeon is actually tier god/legendary level of dungeon instead. Adventurers did try to run and leave at the first sights of tough minions ahead. They did realize that the tomb wasn't a easy difficulty level, but as someone else mentioned, Ainz was never planning on letting anyone live the very second they entered the top grounds of Nazarick. The adventurers got trapped and than massacred while they were doing something perfectly usual for their profession and just as you feel no guilt raiding a dungeon filled with skeletons in a game; so did they. Now tell me how pissed will you be if a tomb you enter turns out to be a trap and your party gets annihilated and character you played get's destroyed with no chance of revival, thus all the progress and time wasted on leveling them went to shit?I'm sure you wouldn't be pleased and wouldn't try to justify the monster who killed you or the developers of the game who did something so cruel and unjust and made it impossible for your group to escape. Than, you, rightfully enraged, enter the forums of the game to curse the developers and instead find a brainless community who laugh at noobs who fell for the trap nobody knew about and how developers are geniuses and did nothing wrong for such a cheap and evil trick. P.S I wouldn't expect any less from a "AzorAhai". so childish to copy/paste my own reply. You probably didn't even google it and even if you did so what? It's not like Azorahai has anything to do with Overlord universe, unlike DUUUH, Entomia, who is your avatar, thus for you to decide to have it as an avatar already implies you like that thing enough to allow it to "represent" yourself or your tastes. discussing azorahai would be irrelevant. |
Sigmar-UnberogenSep 2, 2018 2:10 AM
Gator said: Necromia said: Their intent was to grave rob and pillage but they failed. There's not other reason they would be there. Why do you bring up killing villagers? I mentioned Carne village because it's close to Nazaric. If the workers cared about the tomb they were invading they would have asked it's neighbors. Shady missions like this is why they're forced to be workers instead of adventurers. My mistake. Most don't have traps and even if they did most have been set off. There isn't any living inhabitants inside pyramids to reset traps to keep us away. There isn't any creatures trying to keep us away. Researchers are entering pyramids that have no inhabitants for knowledge not greed. Yup, they had no way of knowing if someone lives there but they still did it. What they did was wrong and they suffered the consequences. Simple as that. I don't think this can be called grave robbing like in the real world though. In the real world are no undead killing the living in those tombs and necromancy is generally viewed as something evil. I have to admit that the whole thing of it lying in another country wasn't completely explained in my opinion so I don't know how illegal that was. Also the difference between workers and adventurers didn't seem obvious to me either. This might just have been a mistake on the adaption's part though and thus the anime-only watchers have a different view on it than you LN readers. Normally there are no living inhabitants in tombs either, I mean who would wanna live there? Usually in a world like theirs it's just mindless undead or evil necromancers. I agree what they did was wrong, but the punishment was way too hard. Though I don't necessarily have a problem with the fact that they were punished like that, but rather that Ainz actually thought this is the right thing to do. It's HIGHLY Illegal especially when the other kingdom is one you have an ANUAL WAR WITH. Although most of the workers selected this job to just earn more money than normal adventurers, a few of them became workers to help the people, or to satisfy their own passion for dangerous explorations. This is through using illegal means such as without being strictly bound by the rules of the Adventurer's Guild or a respective country. On the other hand, workers do not receive informational or administrative support from the Adventurer's Guild. Therefore, they must not only investigate the difficulty of a quest, but also analyze the risk and reward involved by themselves. This independence from a recognized body, makes the risk quite high, so much so that it bolsters the career of a worker, proving their strength and discernment. To sum it up they chose poorly and paid the price. It's not like Ainz promised them treasures and cookies. |
To sum it up they chose poorly and paid the price. It's not like Ainz promised them treasures and cookies. They chose poorly? When they chose to become workers in life, or when they decided to investigate the tomb? I failed to see the point? Ainz didn't promise them cookies and treasures since nobody even knew about Ainz existing or him being there. Now if they DID, and still entered, that would have been a different level of stupidity. You just can not justify the massacre and torture of people who did their regular jobs and mistook Nazarick for a dungeon filled with low level skeletons. Ainz deliberately baited workers to begin with, luring them with free gold and easy mobs in order to spring his trap and conduct various experiments later on, so anyone saying that it's workers who are to be blamed, are just ignorant and pathetic at this point. As someone who reads light novel mentioned here, Demiurge was one who baited the empire into sending the workers to the tomb in order to later accuse them for invading a country of Nazarick which they did at the ens of episode 8! So tell me how pawns are to be blamed for everything and their deaths seen as justifiable and deserved?! |
| Because of Shalltear's 10 secs appearance. Seriously I couldn't even bother about Ainz-sama at the previous and this arc. Literally, remove him and the story will move forward :/ The slaughtering of those weaklings are funny as hell. Aura and Mare is just so kawai... |
AzorAhai said: They chose poorly? When they chose to become workers in life, or when they decided to investigate the tomb? I failed to see the point? Ainz didn't promise them cookies and treasures since nobody even knew about Ainz existing or him being there. Now if they DID, and still entered, that would have been a different level of stupidity. You just can not justify the massacre and torture of people who did their regular jobs and mistook Nazarick for a dungeon filled with low level skeletons. Ainz deliberately baited workers to begin with, luring them with free gold and easy mobs in order to spring his trap and conduct various experiments later on, so anyone saying that it's workers who are to be blamed, are just ignorant and pathetic at this point. As someone who reads light novel mentioned here, Demiurge was one who baited the empire into sending the workers to the tomb in order to later accuse them for invading a country of Nazarick which they did at the ens of episode 8! So tell me how pawns are to be blamed for everything and their deaths seen as justifiable and deserved?! I would like to point out a whole "worker" name is misleading, it doesn't convey the meaning what the group really were - a professional mercenaries, whose job is kill people for higher bidder - I think it was either lost in translation or author thrown in English word without thinking of it too much to look worldly. Ainz didn't bothered to put up the signs like "Private property, trespassers will be killed" or "may cause death" or whatever, he just let the invaders through and toyed with them. In Nazarick worked normally i.e. in a way it was supposed to by design, invaders would have to fight though six floors full of monsters and three guardians before they even reached the level where arena is located. Entire setup with arena was unnecessary for defensive purposes, existing only for Ainz to put a show, just as unnecessary was his personal attendance (and even dressing for the occasion), his outburst of anger was also totally unnecessary etc. I suppose it was intended to show the shift in Ainz personality from a salaryman caught in the circumstance to the evil overlord trying to conquer the world. A character development if you will, shown Ainz willingness to commit the evil and cruel acts. I again think problem isn't that evil monster committed evil act in a dark fantasy story. It's a point of the genre. I think that problem is everything has been arranged haphazardly without any plan from the writer - don't try to judge Ainz for committing evil acts, just think what made him to do it. Don't blame evil wizard doing evil things. Blame author for not explaining us a wizard's motive properly. |
beast_regardsSep 2, 2018 4:56 AM
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
| Because human suffering is very appealing to me as a hardcore sadist tbh and they didn't just give up right away and started crying like disgusting weaklings so them breaking down later from the despair is all the better to be frank like this just looks great in my eyes you can just see the loss of hope as she is about to die Im not a fan of yuri but the pleasure from Shalltear's face making it look slightly sexual is very welcomed too since sex and death go hand in hand and is very nicely hammered in too considering Hekkeran defended the Elf girl he had just slept with the night before but speaking of that thank you for posting that great gif @Necromia |
DeknijffSep 2, 2018 5:37 AM
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Deknijff said: At least your honest with yourself. xD nothing to be proud of though.Because human suffering is very appealing to me as a hardcore sadist tbh and they didn't just give up right away and started crying like disgusting weaklings so them breaking down later from the despair is all the better to be frank like this just looks great in my eyes you can just see the loss of hope as she is about to die Im not a fan of yuri but the pleasure from Shalltear's face making it look slightly sexual is very welcomed too since sex and death go hand in hand and is very nicely hammered in too considering Hekkeran defended the Elf girl he had just slept with the night before but speaking of that thank you for posting that great gif @Necromia |
AzorAhai said: Being yourself and staying true is always something to be proud of thoughDeknijff said: At least your honest with yourself. xD nothing to be proud of though.Because human suffering is very appealing to me as a hardcore sadist tbh and they didn't just give up right away and started crying like disgusting weaklings so them breaking down later from the despair is all the better to be frank like this just looks great in my eyes you can just see the loss of hope as she is about to die Im not a fan of yuri but the pleasure from Shalltear's face making it look slightly sexual is very welcomed too since sex and death go hand in hand and is very nicely hammered in too considering Hekkeran defended the Elf girl he had just slept with the night before but speaking of that thank you for posting that great gif @Necromia  |
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AzorAhai said: This Anime though, tries purposely to make these npcs as human-like as possible, thus despite it being a fiction i can not be ok with people laughing and asking for more or worse outcomes when disturbing things are happening. They are not npcs. This is not Sword Art Online or Log Horizon. The story in Overlord is genuinely happening in a different world and all those people are real. So they are not "human-like"; they are humans. As for the topic, I don't understand why you're disliking a villain for doing evil things. That's what villains normally do. The difference in Overlord is that the story is being told from the perspective of the villain instead of the hero. Why don't you open your mind to notice how amazing it is to read/watch a series in which the story is being told from a different perspective from the usual one? Tatsuya said: even in the darkest parts of the LN both before and after this, he never did anything that was so pointlessly brutal, cruel and inhuman as he is in this volume |
ColtBuntlineSep 2, 2018 4:05 PM
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
| It's a fantasy world, sometimes it's happen. For one time that we have a bad ending.. but I haven't really like this episode. It's just the continuation of the serie, another random episode for me. I don't think this season is a good show. |
KRKodama said: As i said he's a pragmatic villain, everything he does works by that mindset, the problem with this arc is how out of character it seems for the overall tone, also the lizardman arc also falls into a similar category what happens in vol 11 if we're going by that.AzorAhai said: This Anime though, tries purposely to make these npcs as human-like as possible, thus despite it being a fiction i can not be ok with people laughing and asking for more or worse outcomes when disturbing things are happening. They are not npcs. This is not Sword Art Online or Log Horizon. The story in Overlord is genuinely happening in a different world and all those people are real. So they are not "human-like"; they are humans. As for the topic, I don't understand why you're disliking a villain for doing evil things. That's what villains normally do. The difference in Overlord is that the story is being told from the perspective of the villain instead of the hero. Why don't you open your mind to notice how amazing it is to read/watch a series in which the story is being told from a different perspective from the usual one? Tatsuya said: even in the darkest parts of the LN both before and after this, he never did anything that was so pointlessly brutal, cruel and inhuman as he is in this volume As i said before the problem isn't that ainz is a villain, it's that he's also very pragmatic in his actions, he doesn't just kill for the fun of it, everything he does usually has a logical reason for action, the entire invaders arc comes off as a completely out of character moment, and one that is needlessly brutal by his usual actions. Tbh i barely remember vol 11, so that probably doesn't help, should probably reread it. |
| lmao what is this sjw discussion and why are people even responding with walls of text? but to answer OPs question, the obvious answer is that it's satisfying to watch an evil overlord torture people. So yeah, I'm fine with this and it genuinely makes me happy. |
It's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. |
| because i sick of ridiculously good and heroic main characters. |
| The issue here is that Ainz is ruthless but pragmatic; wats are waged with more regards to practical ends and methods, a d morality is seen as an optional after thought to be discarded when it it becomes unnecessarily burdensome. Read the Melian Dialogues, essentially. Just as being moral is an obstacle against survival, so is being a sadistic, hedonistic jerk. A king should be feared if not loved, but never hated, as Nicoli Machiavelli may have stated. You don't want to anger potential sllies to satisfy your boner, nor does one want to engage in risky endeavors or waste of resources and time for the LULz. Ainz comes off less as a cold and calculating conqueror and sorcerer supreme with a retributive ideology, and essentially just a thug in this episode. Maybe. A thug tortures without regards to any ideals they simply believe in. This was definitely OoC, in any case. |
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| People seem to overlook the fact that the Workers are illegally trespassing into another country. They are not, to their knowledge, raiding a tomb whose owner is long dead and which nobody will miss or feel sentimental about. Rather they are knowingly crossing into a foreign land to steal money which Adventurers/Workers from the Re-Estize Kingdom should get to first. But I'll leave it at that as otherwise people might start talking about real life politics. Many on this thread seem to say that Ainz takes the role of the big bad before he really got into power, but I have to disagree. The personality of Ainz is just too different for that role. His motivation and methods as well. For one Ainz severely lacks the arrogance that big bads usually have. Instead he is so careful about his actions that it can even be considered borderline-paranoid. He also doesn't have the characteristic of oppressing others. As long as he is in charge he neither oppresses those he conquers, nor his own people. The Emperor from the original trilogy of Star Wars was specifically noted to rule through fear, for example. however Ainz specifically told Cocytus NOT to use fear when governing the lizardmen. The only exception to this rule are uncivilized monsters who are used to "might makes right", like the Demon Snake of the West. Ainz also doesn't have any "bad guy" goals like trying to "bring peace" by trapping everyone in an eternal illusion, nor does he want to destroy the world. At least as far as is known up to this point. Just a few individual actions and a scary appearence of a skeleton Overlord are not enough to turn someone into a big bad villain, you know. |
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I don't understand why you're disliking a villain for doing evil things. That's what villains normally do. The difference in Overlord is that the story is being told from the perspective of the villain instead of the hero. Why don't you open your mind to notice how amazing it is to read/watch a series in which the story is being told from a different perspective from the usual one? As for the "villains do evil things", Ainz wasn't pure evil up to episodes 7-8. I already discussed this with several people on this thread. Up to this moment Ainz was a normal human guy, stuck in Overlord's body and PRETENDED to be evil for the sake on Nazarick. Now, he no longer pretends, he is evil and many like me lost taste in watching such anime. It's like watching a boot trampling ants, but unlike average ants, the ants in anime have their stories developed, so it's perfectly natural for a human to have feelings for these ants when they get squashed. If you find it enjoyable, well i never forced anyone to drop the series or anything. The point of this thread is to find out what people find enjoyable in ants getting squashed. |
AzorAhai said: As for the "villains do evil things", Ainz wasn't pure evil up to episodes 7-8. I already discussed this with several people on this thread. Up to this moment Ainz was a normal human guy, stuck in Overlord's body and PRETENDED to be evil for the sake on Nazarick. Now, he no longer pretends, he is evil and many like me lost taste in watching such anime. It's like watching a boot trampling ants, but unlike average ants, the ants in anime have their stories developed, so it's perfectly natural for a human to have feelings for these ants when they get squashed. If you find it enjoyable, well i never forced anyone to drop the series or anything. The point of this thread is to find out what people find enjoyable in ants getting squashed. The mistake in your thinking is that you are taking your prediction of future content to be pure fact without being backed by any evidence. Infact, if you mean it as you wrote it, then it doesn't make any sense at all. How does Ainz becoming - in your opinion - evil, somehow mean that the rest of the series will be all about "squashing ants" when compared to before? There is no room for logical reasoning here, really. It's a non sequitur. Are you an anime-only or a Light Novel reader? |
Grey-ZoneSep 4, 2018 1:15 PM
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The mistake in your thinking is that you are taking your prediction of future content to be pure fact without being backed by any evidence. How does Ainz becoming - in your opinion - evil, somehow mean that the rest of the series will be all about "squashing ants" when compared to before? There is no room for logical reasoning here, really. It's a non sequitur. |
AzorAhai said: depends on the story and personal taste. What's there to enjoy watching an overpowered MC and his overpowered minions killing countless characters (developing who anime wastes more than couple episodes for some reason!) who can do no to minimal damage. No opposition, no challenge. This show can go on forever. As for the "villains do evil things", Ainz wasn't pure evil up to episodes 7-8. I already discussed this with several people on this thread. Up to this moment Ainz was a normal human guy, stuck in Overlord's body and PRETENDED to be evil for the sake on Nazarick. Now, he no longer pretends, he is evil and many like me lost taste in watching such anime. It's like watching a boot trampling ants, but unlike average ants, the ants in anime have their stories developed, so it's perfectly natural for a human to have feelings for these ants when they get squashed. If you find it enjoyable, well i never forced anyone to drop the series or anything. The point of this thread is to find out what people find enjoyable in ants getting squashed. It seems your main problem with the show is that you cannot sympathize with a villain. But why would you? He is a villain, villains are not normally meant to be sympathetic. I know, villains aren't normally the protagonist, so I understand the confusion, but unsympathetic protagonist aren't even that rare in the anime to complain about that. Lack of challenge may be a problem, but keep in mind challenge protagonist faces might not be the one of combat, it can be psychological or even moral, which seems to be a case for the Overlord. Problem is, Overlord doesn't have that good characterization, while in Episode 8 it would seem Ainz now decided he will indeed be a a cruel, evil villain, in Episode 9 he seems to be back where he was before, a man caught in circumstances not really ready to commit the evil acts. Why the sudden change? Yes, author needed the adventurers dead (otherwise they would have to go to Momon, and Momon would have to fight Ainz, which would reveal they are the same person) however there wasn't any reason for Ainz to actually give an order (to kill the adventurers), it could be easily ordered by his guardians (as he didn't want Ainz to be a monster yet), but ... obviously, author thought the arena scene is cool, so he put that in, and that's pretty much it, consistency be damned. |
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
| While personally I myself liked Arche as a character (even the rest of her group wasn't so bad) and was sad to see her go I still didn't dislike the show because of episode 8. So first up as you said the workers were just doing their job and the real culprit for the "invasion" was the Emperor but that still doesn't make the workers completely innocent either. Ains has always emphasised to his subordinates not to kill/eat/torture innocent humans, keyword: innocent. Ains himself does have a moral code (to some extent) in that sense and is not just torturing or killing people for no good reason. Going back to whether the workers whether they were innocent or not: - Firstly being mercenaries they had the choice whether to take the job or not (they're not obligated to participate like say a soldier). - Secondly their main reason for taking the job is because it pays well and Ains even asked them this to clarify. - So what does Ains do? He purposely leaves a bunch of gold that would've set each of them for life. There's no reason for him to do this other than he was giving them a chance to leave. It wouldn't make sense for it to be bait to lure them into the tomb because that's what they were gonna do anyway, so if anything it would satisfy what they wanted (money) and they could've left with it. It was waay more than whatever the Emperor was paying them. - But be it whether they were greedy for more or they were noble enough to see a job through they continued on and invaded the tomb which is when they hit the point of no return. To Ains he had already given them what they said was their reason for trying to invade the tomb. If you're a king of a castle and a bunch of people invaded it they have to be punished. Ains was the lord of the tomb, the subordinates that serve him and their expectations of him. He even outright states how he didn't really want to do this when he asked all the guardians to cover their ears. As you have realised the denizens of Nazarick aren't human and don't see themselves equal to humans, many of them have stated in one way or another how they see humans as an inferior species (even likening them to insects) which is why they feel little to no remorse when committing cruel acts against them (do you feel remorse when you kill insects infesting your home? or animals like chickens that you eat?). In an earlier scene when Ains is listening to his subordinates' requests a lot of them involved eating or even torturing humans which puts Ains in a spot where he tries to appease them but once again emphasises not to do it to innocent humans. Once again I did feel bad for Arche and her sisters (not like Ains is aware of her situation or personality, at the moment they were all just intruders to him) but for the most part understood why he did what he did (though I was kinda hoping he would spare Arche in some way like maybe she submits to him after realising the futility of her efforts and maybe that ability where she can see other people's magic power could prove useful to Ains) and he did indeed showed mercy to her by giving her a painless death (compared to the torture the others had to go through you could at least say she got off easy). As for all her body parts being used up as Ains said it's the best way to respect the dead. Once again the denizens of Nazarick (and that includes Ains to some extent as his humanity is somewhat being suppressed due to him being an undead) don't see humans as equals. If a bear invaded your home and you killed it in self-defence you wouldn't say it's cruel if you made full use of its body like using its fur for a coat or mat and meat to cook dinner to try and say it's a way to respect the life you've taken. Once again Arche and the rest of the workers aren't innocent the moment they continued to invade the tomb despite the abundance of gold they've found earlier. |
DMindSep 4, 2018 3:38 PM
AzorAhai said: They laughed and massacred the skeletons... Seriously? massacred skeletons, it's like saying they massacred the dirt. Do you really compare animated bones with the living? or do you think they have feelings or something? If they do then anime failed to show it anywhere. I'm sorry,but I just have to take issue with this statement.As I understand it,you are saying that those skeletons are dirt?-They are not like the living,and have no feelings?-And the anime has not shown a single skeleton that has feelings? Only one thing to say to that. AINZ OOAL GOWN! Btw,sorry about screwing around with the quote thingy,just couldn't get it to work right.Ok,sorta fixed it :) |
StarhammerSep 4, 2018 4:30 PM
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Darklight0303 said: To sum it up they chose poorly and paid the price. It's not like Ainz promised them treasures and cookies. That would've been so awesome though,I mean,they get to walk away with cookies baked by Cocytus :) |
StarhammerSep 4, 2018 4:32 PM
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| I really hated this episode. Wanted to like the anime but I'm disliking it so much since this season. It's like some people say below. The author tries to introduce you to these characters so you can feel some empathy for them before killing them. This is not what I started watching on season one. This is definitely not my jam. I guess I'm getting old or something, but I don't want to keep watching such depressing stuff. |
| Life must be really interesting for you if you really feel the need to judge other people on their interests. I'm curious where you get all this energy from. I mean why do you care what people enjoy, they're not harming you, nor are they impacting you in any way. |
UncannySep 5, 2018 11:01 AM
ridley388 said: I really hated this episode. Wanted to like the anime but I'm disliking it so much since this season. It's like some people say below. The author tries to introduce you to these characters so you can feel some empathy for them before killing them. This is not what I started watching on season one. This is definitely not my jam. I guess I'm getting old or something, but I don't want to keep watching such depressing stuff. You never understood what Overlord was about then so the fault is entirely on you |
AzorAhai said: The mistake in your thinking is that you are taking your prediction of future content to be pure fact without being backed by any evidence. How does Ainz becoming - in your opinion - evil, somehow mean that the rest of the series will be all about "squashing ants" when compared to before? There is no room for logical reasoning here, really. It's a non sequitur. What's the problem with ep8 then? First you say that ep8 changed your perception to the point that you now think that the remainder of the anime will be all "about squashing ants". But now you claim that it was like that all along? What? Which is it? Was it like that all along or did you think about it like that only after ep8? You can't claim both. |
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Grey-Zone said: AzorAhai said: Hmm. An overpowered MC and his overpowered minions never in 3 seasons (so far) found an opposition strong enough to be considered a threat (apart from vampire loli episode and even that doesn't seem threatening since she wasn't or simply couldn't be killed by whoever "stunned" her). Tell me why it's sounds illogical to predict that Ainz and his gang will trample everyone (99.9%). It already seems obvious by what we have seen so far, including episode 9. Everyone outside Nazarick (the boot), are the ants, and the boot decides whether to squash the ants or not. the ants have 0 chance, no matter how much they scheme, struggle, plot. A minor damage is all they can hope to achieve. Don't tell me this assumption comes from thin air. The anime is already all about "who to squash, who to spare" Are you saying the plot of the series is going to change from this perspective? I doubt it, and this is an opinion based on what we have seen so far, not a prediction. What's the problem with ep8 then? First you say that ep8 changed your perception to the point that you now think that the remainder of the anime will be all "about squashing ants". But now you claim that it was like that all along? What? Which is it? Was it like that all along or did you think about it like that only after ep8? You can't claim both. Up to episode 8 i was still doubting that this anime was all about squashing ants. episode 8 made it certain (confirmed) that EVERYBODY outside Nazarick is an ant and thus the fate of this world becomes obvious (lizardmen, empire - who cares, no difference), unless author pulls out a major plot twist, but i doubt it'll happen. Once again this prediction is not to be mistaken as a prediction of a prophet. |
AzorAhai said: Grey-Zone said: What's the problem with ep8 then? First you say that ep8 changed your perception to the point that you now think that the remainder of the anime will be all "about squashing ants". But now you claim that it was like that all along? What? Which is it? Was it like that all along or did you think about it like that only after ep8? You can't claim both. Up to episode 8 i was still doubting that this anime was all about squashing ants. episode 8 made it certain (confirmed) that EVERYBODY outside Nazarick is an ant and thus the fate of this world becomes obvious (lizardmen, empire - who cares, no difference), unless author pulls out a major plot twist, but i doubt it'll happen. Once again this prediction is not to be mistaken as a prediction of a prophet. I don't understand how the empire proves that. Keep in mind that the theocracy is significantly more powerful than the empire in terms of top forces. Dominion authority, the strongest angel from season 1, for example, was no big deal for Ainz (though it was at least strong enough to break through Ainz's passive immunity against "weak" spells, i.e. tier 6 or lower spells, just like with the skeletal dragons), it's still strong enough to pose a threat against the pleiades maids, escpacially the weaker ones and with it's light attribute damage it would also be a threat against many of Ainz's undead. Then there's the various characters introduced at the beginning of season 2 which are even stronger than dominion authority. There might also be some hidden dangers. I didn't experience it yet, but supposedly the first Overlord audio drama CD (which takes place around the time of season 1) deals with some lvl 80 demon tree or something, so the threat is definitly there. Consider also the fact that there's still the mystery of HOW and WHY Ainz and Nazarick where transported to a different world in the first place. |
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AzorAhai said: As the title states, this question is directed Only towards people who enjoyed this episode. I, and not me alone, hated it greatly and here is why: Injustice: So a group of normal adventurers got hired to venture in what seemed to be abandoned ruins. They were doing their job. They got tortured and killed for no good reason. What was there to enjoy? Now if it were a group of awful people or group of nobodies, who feel like NPC's instead of actual people, i would have been fine, more or less (like that cocky elf swordsmen who got owned by a hamster), but not here, author deliberately shows how this people are not just soulless, heartless npcs, he even adds drama about one of them needing money for righteous goal (saving sisters). What was the purpose for all this character development if it leads to them getting wiped out. Lizardmen were at least spared a little, even though some had to die. The level of cruelty towards the viewers, not just towards characters, was immense! The real World itself is a cruel place... I don't think this is something this anime tries to tell us. Since this isn't a kids anime, viewers most likely already know what life is so do ween to be reminded about it here as well? or it does drama just for the sake of drama? Back to the point, not forget, this particular character i mentioned is 15-17 years old. How can someone enjoy a kind, innocent child getting purposely ridden of all hope, then killed and then devoured. And that insect loli now even has her voice so even in the future we'll have a reminder of this glorious event. Wtf?! And we are reminded thrice that this was a merciful act from Ainz! And we are to cheer for these monsters and feel similar joy as when they always do while killing the weak? Author certainly succeeded in one thing, making a lot of characters to hate. As for the rest of the group, they don't get instantly killed. Being paralized and experimented on is a fate worse than death. Did they deserve it? Certainly not. They didn't even steal anything or damage anything. Trespassing equals slow death? What to be excited about here? Ainz was merciless, he was determined to kill everyone from the start and didn't even spare a single person. Why? No second thoughts, no regrets. He even had nerve to lecture elf girl about morals... He is bad and does bad things - i get it, but people actually enjoyed suffering of these people? I just wonder why exactly? Because Ainz is cool? It's cool to be edgy and like villains? i hope there is a "better" reason/s than this... The anime is bad in my opinion, since season 2, especially towards the end. you can like it as much as you want but if you mind, do tell me how you're not grossed out of this exact episode? I was really shocked seeing people glorifying this abomination and already giving it high scores. I mean, cruelty was somewhat acceptable, but this one crossed the line since episode 7. It's a sadistic show. Berserk is sadistic, but it has challenges and plot. What purpose sadism served here? come on people, are you really fine with this? Does this really genuinely make you happy? @Xenodon said all there is to it but I would like to add my thoughts on the matter. Let's think about other anti-heroes like Lelouch and Light... they chose to throw their humanity away on their own, when Ainz had it taken away from him when he came to that world, in this sense Ainz didn't become evil. (edit) speaks the one with Homura and Light on his favorites, those two are cruel, tho I agree with Light on everything he did he still killed some innocent people. i dont get why you aren't against that given what you just said. and Homura, she is one of the most evil characters in the whole medium, maybe #1 |
KurayaSep 7, 2018 7:43 AM
  『 The truth has power because it’s the truth. And because it is the truth, that makes it just. It’s persuasive, isn’t it? Don’t you want truth like that? 』 |
| i enjoyed the episode but i dont like the character development of Ainz. Its going to fast. He was more or less an Anti Hero in the first 2 seasons, he did bad things but i had always the feeling that he was questioning it. He saved lifes (even when he said its for his purpose) .. now Ainz is a fullout villian, killing ppl for the sake of it... dunno but crossing this line was too fast and development lacks in depths. |
NiQue_ said: i enjoyed the episode but i dont like the character development of Ainz. Its going to fast. He was more or less an Anti Hero in the first 2 seasons, he did bad things but i had always the feeling that he was questioning it. He saved lifes (even when he said its for his purpose) .. now Ainz is a fullout villian, killing ppl for the sake of it... dunno but crossing this line was too fast and development lacks in depths. His character development is ... broken, so to speak. I don't know if you've read the novel, but so far he shown three to four instances where he acts evil, for lack of better words. Problem is, he doesn't do so in constitutive order. By the way, also switched order to episodes I think. Invading adventurers happened before the scene with the troll, not after, but that beside the point |
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
beast_regards said: By the way, also switched order to episodes I think. Invading adventurers happened before the scene with the troll, not after, but that beside the point Well, the tomb invader arc was in LN vol. 7 and the monster attack on Carne Village was in LN vol. 8 - however chronologically, vol. 8 happened before vol. 7, so the way the anime handled it is alright. |
Grey-ZoneSep 7, 2018 11:28 AM
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Darklight0303 said: ridley388 said: I really hated this episode. Wanted to like the anime but I'm disliking it so much since this season. It's like some people say below. The author tries to introduce you to these characters so you can feel some empathy for them before killing them. This is not what I started watching on season one. This is definitely not my jam. I guess I'm getting old or something, but I don't want to keep watching such depressing stuff. You never understood what Overlord was about then so the fault is entirely on you Oh. Yes. Absolutely, that's what I'm saying. No need to be a smartass about that tho, sir. |
| I certainly did enjoy the episode. Not nearly as much as I did this part in the light novel though. The LN gave much more detail to the background of the Foresight team. It made me like the workers even more before they got killed. The anime is so rushed it's a bit disappointing. Overlord just wouldn't be the same if Ainz was still acting just like he used to while he was a human, or if he was just another overpowered good-guy saving the world. We have already too many series for that kind of thing. I see many people being annoyed by how "the anime just shows a shitty world and Ainz doing bad stuff all the time and it's getting worse and worse", but that's overreacting. Ainz is still much more humane than most of the other members of Nazarick at least. And it's not like he's acting like a completely evil devil who wants to destroy the world or anything. Far from it. |
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