So this was prompted by this video by Bobsamurai, which was in turn was influenced by Crunchyroll's new "anime". I'm personally less interested in the anime (because we really needed another school anime with female protags and a magic/fantasy element) and more of the implication. Does the anime industry (particularly the western anime licencors) hate conservatives? There seems to be a lot of preaching about things like diversity, but it seems to have more do with skin color and gender rather than diversity of thoughts and opinions. Even when considering gender and skin color... its mostly white people and it's mostly women... so yeah not exactly diverse. I don't think its that big of a surprise that conservatives watch anime. While I don't consider myself conservative I am libertarian and probably have more right-leaning beliefs regarding economics. It just seems very short-sighted to think people that like anime would all have the same beliefs or support the same things and it seems both the community (places like ANN, Hummingbird, etc.) where the community congregate and the big licencors, especially Crunchyroll seem to be pushing this agenda on to the fans and indirectly spending their money on initiatives that are politically polarizing like the new Crunchyroll anime. Even on this forum there are people that throw out terms like alt-right, misogynist nazi etc; without any proper evidence, but this kind of thing happens on both sides and I've found MAL to be less biased. I guess where I'm going with this is, do you feel like there is an active push by the community and licencors to push out conservatives or rather maybe just an effort to appeal to only people on the left who are obsessed with things like gender, sexuality, race etc? |
LoneWolfAug 25, 2018 3:35 PM
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
| As much as I dislike a lot of the political stuff and how it seems to be growing more and more present lately, I would still rather wrap a noose around my neck than listen to Bob talk about literally anything. If the vid is a prerequisite, I'm out. |
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| @Deknijff @Manaban Nah, his main point is that the industry and shouldn't be so politically biased and spend people's money on things that are politically polarizing (like high guardian spice) and that people with varying political beliefs can enjoy anime and that we should be respectful of that. |
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
| No. They are racist bigots, homophobes and xenophobes. They cannot watch anime. |
LoneWolf said: well that sounds all fine @Deknijff @Manaban Nah, his main point is that the industry and shouldn't be so politically biased and spend people's money on things that are politically polarizing (like high guardian spice) and that people with varying political beliefs can enjoy anime and that we should be respectful of that. but knowing Bob he probably says it in a way that makes him look retarded but if he founded CR by being subscribed then low-key he only has himself to blame just saying but like that show CR doing isn't even part of the industry is it? Just like how RWBY isn't part of the industry and just a fan project |
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| The anime community online started growing in places like 4chan and other images board, places that the majority of ppl was either right wing or more libertarian oriented, and also since the japanese industry does not care about pushing or being flexible with feminist, gayzists, or other leftist's agendas, i never thought of the community as somewhere where conservative would be unconfortable... whats going on ? |
| Smoke Weed Everyday |
| Anime is such a huge spectrum that there should be something for everyone regardless of political beliefs. Granted since this is a conversation including Bobsamurai my only exposure to him are his videos of him trying to morally high ground a bunch of features in anime that he hates without any evidence of why they should be limited or removed other than "they make me feel bad/uncomfortable/etc." So if his position is that of conservatives in the anime community then I think it's less that the industry should cater to them and more that they are actively trying to stay out of the community because they want to change anime to cater to them. Which I think is wrong because the "such and such is killing anime" community is easily the most toxic aspect and he's definitely a part of it. Like even in this case who cares if Crunchyroll is making a series that doesn't directly pander to him, there's literally thousands of other series with dozens releasing each season. |
GamerDLMAug 25, 2018 3:52 PM
| When will this shitstorm about crunchyroll end? I don't give a shit about CR anime and I don't understand why others do |
| Well, i consider myself as being liberal-conservative with some libertarian views (And here in my country anarchocapitalism is associated with liking anime, go figure). What can i say is that, for some reason, anime atracts a lot of the "austistic ideologies". |
UrbanSpaceman said: but I thought MAL users loooved soapboxing about crunchyroll?When will this shitstorm about crunchyroll end? I don't give a shit about CR anime and I don't understand why others do |
| There is absolutely no reason why I should accept "turn your brain off" as a valid excuse to defend a poor show. ~ blatant ad: https://myanimelist.net/blog/Crusader_8 I spend the time to write it, so please read it lol |
| And if it helps: I think being a conservative made me like Darling in the FranXX a lot more, since you don't since a lot of media that has essentialism as opposed to construtivism as it's ideology, which was one of my favorite parts of DarliFra. |
LoneWolf said: Alternatively, is it some sort of recent trend that someone as much as lightly sneezes in the general direction of the word "diversity" and then suddenly right-wingers/conservatives/etc. get all defensive about it and say that people are out to get them?So this was prompted by this video by Bobsamurai, which was in turn was influenced by Crunchyroll's new "anime". I'm personally less interested in the anime (because we really needed another school anime with female protags and a magic/fantasy element) and more of the implication. Does the anime industry (particularly the western anime licencors) hate conservatives? There seems to be a lot of preaching about things like diversity, but it seems to have more do with skin color and gender rather than diversity of thoughts and opinions. Even when considering gender and skin color... its mostly white people and it's mostly women... so yeah not exactly diverse. I don't think its that big of a surprise that conservatives watch anime. While I don't consider myself conservative I am libertarian and probably have more right-leaning beliefs regarding economics. It just seems very short-sighted to think people that like anime would all have the same beliefs or support the same things and it seems both the community (places like ANN, Hummingbird, etc.) where the community congregate and the big licencors, especially Crunchyroll seem to be pushing this agenda on to the fans and indirectly spending their money on initiatives that are politically polarizing like the new Crunchyroll anime. I guess where I'm going with this is, do you feel like there is an active push by the community and licencors to push out conservatives or rather maybe just an effort to appeal to only people on the left who are obsessed with things like gender, sexuality, race etc? I guess I should start by pointing out that ideological labels like "liberal"/"conservative"/"left"/"right"/etc. are just that -- labels. They're not inherently meaningful outside of people sticking positions to them, positions that often have basically jack-all to do with each other. For example, economic ideologies are rather separate from social ideologies, as you yourself suggested. They're only conflated because people use the same labels. FWIW, the Japanese primarily make anime for themselves, and their country is very racially homogenous compared to someplace like the U.S., so it makes a lot of sense for the characters to generally have, say, light skin color, and no curly hair, and such. So I don't see how "preaching about diversity" applies much here...but at the same time, I don't know where you hang out, but I haven't heard much "preaching about diversity". I mean, there isn't really much to talk about, in my opinion. What is this "new Crunchyroll anime" which you allege is "pushing this agenda"? Well, regardless of what it is, I suspect people who enjoy it will enjoy it for reasons unrelated to politics, and people who don't enjoy it will also not enjoy it for reasons unrelated to politics. There will inevitably be people who try to read a political meaning into it, both positively and negatively, and especially if it flops, some people might try to blame the flop on this alleged agenda-pushing, even though it probably has nothing to do with it, because frankly speaking a good writer can write a convincing story with any premise, but also there's the caveat that not every story fits everyone's tastes. I think the anime fandom as a whole is generally apolitical, but if you really have to ask about political ideologies, not too long ago there was already a spate of people here on AD who couldn't shut up about complaining about "SJWs" (so much so that other people got sick of them, while there was basically just one person who'd actually fit the "SJW" label, and that person didn't even post that much here), so that should put to rest any fears you have of conservatives/right-wingers/etc. being underrepresented. Also, funny you should mention Hummingbird (well, aside from the fact that it's no longer called Hummingbird, but now called Kitsu) -- the last time MAL had a major downtime, I joined Hummingbird (it was still Hummingbird back then), and I eventually left after they updated to Kitsu, partly because the update cut out some of my watching history, partly because the site was missing some features, and partly because there were at least two regulars there who basically were inveterate Trump supporters (and rather obnoxiously smug about it, too). (Though, ironically, isn't pushing back against underrepresentation an "SJW" thing too? :P) |
GlennMagusHarveyAug 25, 2018 4:06 PM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Dude wtf. If there's a prevalent discourse in the anime community, it's the conservative one. Stop victimizing yourselves, you are (sadly) the majority. |
| Didn't know your political views mattered to entertainment |
LoneWolf said: @Deknijff @Manaban Nah, his main point is that the industry and shouldn't be so politically biased and spend people's money on things that are politically polarizing (like high guardian spice) and that people with varying political beliefs can enjoy anime and that we should be respectful of that. Eh, then he can do what I'm going to do and just ignore it. Supporting it and giving it anymore attention than I've already done is out of the question and I haven't really seen any signs that the sort of all-permeating political biases are as prominent within anime as they are in something like western comic books. And a work with a clear political motivation behind it existing just isn't something I really see as disrespectful towards people with other political beliefs, inclusivity in literally every piece of media and disregarding target audiences or niches isn't something I'm about to start backing regardless of where it may be coming from. It feels comparable with a straight female complaining that a series like TLR or DxD doesn't do enough to appeal to them, to which point I'd just respond with "I don't really see a reason to give a fuck" and go on about my day. I do feel alienated from this work right out of the gate with that initial marketing ploy myself, but so be it. There's a lot of other cool shit out there I'd rather watch than another politically-laden western cartoon knocking off SU's artstyle, anyway. I'm actually kind of grateful for it, in a way, so meh. The attempts at censoring negative responses and outright denying that there was much of a negative response in spite of the evidence of the contrary on CR's end, mixed with the fact their services and video players are outright garbage and they rely primarily on a moral overlording and creating a sense of guilt amongst potential consumers to market their product has been breeding resentment within their consumerbase for a good while now. So neglect the issues that have been around for years, neglect the new issues that have popped up, neglect everything for some frivolous vanity project. Let them breed more and more bad will with the consumers. That, and how they've basically deluded themselves into thinking there hasn't been a lot of backlash to begin with meaning that they won't actually do anything about it, is basically a dream come true for somebody like myself, who doesn't pay for their product due to a desire for them to stop existing as an entity all together. It's delicious to me. So I'm on board with it. Keep letting bad will fester, CR. Invest your resources and capital in ways like this. It's neglectful and wasteful and I've spoken out about why I think it's a bad thing to focus on given the current state of their service, but I really do fully support it. Not for political purposes in the sense of ideology or belief, just because I don't think they should really exist as a business due to little else other than being managed by some pretty spectacularly terrible people. |
ManabanAug 25, 2018 4:04 PM
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LoneWolf said: Frankly, this smells a lot like "my pet issues aren't political issues, but yours are".Nah, his main point is that the industry and shouldn't be so politically biased and spend people's money on things that are politically polarizing (like high guardian spice) and that people with varying political beliefs can enjoy anime and that we should be respectful of that. Does anyone raise concerns about "not being so politically biased" when people complain about other people's criticism of ecchi and portrayals of sexuality, or for that matter when people blame "censorship" for various things? How are those things not political issues as well? No, they are. It's just that the fandom at large is generally okay with ecchi, so it takes the (inherently political) position of opposing the notion of wanting anime to have less ecchi, for example. Also, fwiw, an economic libertarian ideology would say, since Crunchyroll has earned that money, they can do whatever they want with it. GangstaYangWenli said: Conservatives portraying themselves as victims again just because someone has a different opinion on some sort of creative art thing that makes them uncomfortable, I guess.The anime community online started growing in places like 4chan and other images board, places that the majority of ppl was either right wing or more libertarian oriented, and also since the japanese industry does not care about pushing or being flexible with feminist, gayzists, or other leftist's agendas, i never thought of the community as somewhere where conservative would be unconfortable... whats going on ? |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| @GlennMagusHarvey I guess I should start by pointing out that ideological labels like "liberal"/"conservative"/"left"/"right"/etc. are just that -- labels. They're not inherently meaningful outside of people sticking positions to them, positions that often have basically jack-all to do with each other. For example, economic ideologies are rather separate from social ideologies, as you yourself suggested. They're only conflated because people use the same labels. It's not that simple, is more about that people who have coherent political positions have them because they have a set os principles, and that principles lean to logical conclusions that can be categorized as a political position. There are reasons of why certain social positions happen mostly in right or left economic positions when in theory one shouldn't influence on the other, which are that both of them come from a set of principles. |
| It's their choice to dislike themes likes diversity, gender, discrimination and make a whole drama out of it whenever a show shows up that does care about them, anime or otherwise. People are just doing their thing and it's the 'conservatives' who see anything that cares about diversity and the likes as 'politically polarizing' in an attempt to make anyone feel bad and think twice about angering conservative viewers whenever anyone tries to include positive values like diversity or discuss topics like race or gender in their shows. That is 100% their problem, I don't care if they exclude themselves on purpose just because they can't handle certain themes. I'm glad creators don't let 'conservatives' pressure them into abandoning these topics and just doing what the conservatives want which is what exactly? Less diversity? More objectification of women? And that's the thing, conservatives don't seem to wany anything in particular, they only want to hate on certain positive values all the time, wanting to have them completely removed from all media and discourse it seems. It's pure negativity. I'm not gonna let an attitude like that strongarm the industry into not covering certain topics or themes just because the poor conservatives get offended by them and don't feel like the world is revolving around only their wishes anymore. Like seriously, how petty do you have to be to think that people include diversity and stuff in their shows in an effort to push out conservative fans and not just because they care about and like writing that way? That's just completely mistaking effect for motivation. It's like saying ecchi anime exists to push out feminists and other liberals, when it's really just some of those people who choose to react in unjustifiedly negative ways to that genre a lot of the time. Same thing with 'conservatives' who get their panties in a bunch whenever the word 'diversity' is used, like it was their personal mission to ensure that diversity is never a thing and never gets talked about seriously by anyone without getting angry at them or ridiculing them. If anyone has an agenda here, it's them, trying to create an atmosphere where creators are afraid of talking about or including diversity and similar themes in their works because they're afraid of the backlash from the 'conservatives' into buying their product because it has been labeled with those 'triggerwords' like diversity. Is that what you want? Because it's either that, or conservatives being pissed all the time because those works are still getting made. There is no in-between solution, conservatives won't stop crying about diversity until it is completely gone and nobody talks about it ever again in a positive light. At least that's my impression based on a lot of their kneejerk reactions to stuff like the High Guardian Spice Trailer. There's no thinking, no reflection, just immediate hateful reactions when they hear or read the word in some context. Creators have the choice of either not making that kind of stuff at all, or accepting that conservatives will hate them simply for writing fiction that includes certain themes. I'm glad they still make them personally because nothing is worse than scaring content creators into not writing about what they truly want to write about just because they're scared of audience reactions. It's the conservatives who need to change their attitude, quite frankly, if anyone has to. Nobody is telling them to embrace diversity if they really hate it that much, but at least not getting offended by its existence and the desire of some creators to write about it would be a start for coexistence. That is in their hands. After all that is what they tell the feminists who get offended by ecchi as well. 'It's not targeting you, don't get offended, stop whining. watch something else etc...' If only they took some of their own advice on other topics like diversity this whole thing would be a non-issue. The bottomline is if they feel 'pushed out' of the community because some series and people in it value diversity and are not trying to keep that a secret, instead of just ignoring that as something not aimed at them and just enjoying all the rest of anime which is often still quite conservative since it's from a conservative country like Japan, I don't have pity for them. It's basically just using the more obnoxious type of SJW strategies of trying to pressure content creators by public outrage into doing their bidding AND simultaneously blaming the other side for the ruckus you're causing. Only conservatives could be whiny enough to interpret the mere existence of stuff not aimed at them as an organized attempt to push them out of the community. Playing the victim at its finest, when it's really them reacting disproportionately. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
jal90 said: Dude wtf. If there's a prevalent discourse in the anime community, it's the conservative one. Stop victimizing yourselves, you are (sadly) the majority. InB4 most of this thread being non-conservative. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Does anyone raise concerns about "not being so politically biased" when people complain about other people's criticism of ecchi and portrayals of sexuality, or for that matter when people blame "censorship" for various things? How are those things not political issues as well? No, they are. It's just that the fandom at large is generally okay with ecchi, so it takes the (inherently political) position of opposing the notion of wanting anime to have less ecchi, for example. Because I am highly certain that those shows aren't espousing or really backing any kind of political ideology, they're pretty much just boobie fun most of the time and it seems kind of far reaching and silly to treat them as being any sort of deeper commentary on something societal like this. Especially from a creative intent standpoint. I really, really doubt any manga artist or animator is sitting there, twirling their mustache and saying "Muahahahaha, this will really, truly convince people that this type of sexualization in media is okay and leave a lasting impact on society in a way I'm deeming for the better." And a show that markets itself through citing gender ratios first and foremost right out of the gate and saying very, very few things about the show itself doesn't really fall into that same camp, at least if you ask me. People are going to find things sexually attractive and there will be media seeking out audiences that wish to indulge in as much. That's about as much of a non-issue as something reciting Tumblr ideology existing is, and this one isn't even really as politically motivated as you're wanting to treat it as. People can think it's shit, people can think it's backwards and dumb or whatever, but the mere existence of it and how it isn't an all-inclusive piece of media doesn't matter much. |
ManabanAug 25, 2018 4:15 PM
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thewiru said: Actually, your contention that they are "coherent political positions" doesn't make sense when you consider that "left" and "right" have reversed positions on economic issues when comparing the US and Europe.@GlennMagusHarvey I guess I should start by pointing out that ideological labels like "liberal"/"conservative"/"left"/"right"/etc. are just that -- labels. They're not inherently meaningful outside of people sticking positions to them, positions that often have basically jack-all to do with each other. For example, economic ideologies are rather separate from social ideologies, as you yourself suggested. They're only conflated because people use the same labels. It's not that simple, is more about that people who have coherent political positions have them because they have a set os principles, and that principles lean to logical conclusions that can be categorized as a political position. There are reasons of why certain social positions happen mostly in right or left economic positions when in theory one shouldn't influence on the other, which are that both of them come from a set of principles. They really are just labels of convenience. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
jal90 said: Dude wtf. If there's a prevalent discourse in the anime community, it's the conservative one. Stop victimizing yourselves, you are (sadly) the majority. Yeah that too. As a liberal on MAL I feel like I'm in the minority most of the time, on most issues, in most threads. Just look at the High Guardian Spice thread, almost everyone is shitting on it with the most positive responses being 'I don't give a shit about it' and only me and maybe one or two other guys trying to kinds argue back and dismantle their knee-jerk reactions to the trailer. How is that an atmosphere where conservatives get oppressed or can even feel like being in the minority? Are they really that delusional or is this just some grand manipulation tactic? I should be the one whining about anime being seen as a safe zone that belongs to only them, by a lot of 'conservatives' in the community who'd love to remove any liberal, progressive, diversity elements from it. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Actually, your contention that they are "coherent political positions" doesn't make sense when you consider that "left" and "right" have reversed positions on economic issues when comparing the US and Europe. They really are just labels of convenience. No... They've not. Left has always been about collectivism and letting the state take care of stuff. Right has alwayss been about private property, economic freedom and letting the free-market take care of stuff. Of course it isn't just a "switch", left and right are a spectrum of ideologies, you can be either a Social-Democrat or a Tankie and be considered left-wing, the same way you can be a contitutionalist or an AnCap and be considered right-wing. |
Manaban said: And so if people want to have "boobie fun" they should be able to indulge their taste in anime, why shouldn't those people who want something else? Why does someone saying they want to make something different or take things in a new direction suddenly get people alleging a "political agenda" and railing against it? Or is it just because that's not what some existing fans wanted (and so much for "innovativeness" in anime)? Which doesn't make sense because it's not like any existing series or genre is going to poof out of existence just because someone else made another anime series about whatever.GlennMagusHarvey said: Does anyone raise concerns about "not being so politically biased" when people complain about other people's criticism of ecchi and portrayals of sexuality, or for that matter when people blame "censorship" for various things? How are those things not political issues as well? No, they are. It's just that the fandom at large is generally okay with ecchi, so it takes the (inherently political) position of opposing the notion of wanting anime to have less ecchi, for example. Because I am highly certain that those shows aren't espousing or really backing any kind of political ideology, they're pretty much just boobie fun most of the time and it seems kind of far reaching and silly to treat them as being any sort of deeper commentary on something societal like this. People are going to find things sexually attractive and there will be media seeking out audiences that wish to indulge in as much. That's about as much of a non-issue as something reciting Tumblr ideology existing is. People can think it's shit, people can think it's backwards and dumb or whatever, but the mere existence of it and how it isn't an all-inclusive piece of media doesn't matter much. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
thewiru said: Oh, my bad, it's not "left" and "right" that are reversed, it's "liberal" and "conservative", as "liberal" is used to refer to free-market nuts instead of interventionists in Europe, so the economic "right" is "liberal" there.GlennMagusHarvey said: Actually, your contention that they are "coherent political positions" doesn't make sense when you consider that "left" and "right" have reversed positions on economic issues when comparing the US and Europe. They really are just labels of convenience. No... They've not. Left has always been about collectivism and letting the state take care of stuff. Right has alwayss been about private property, economic freedom and letting the free-market take care of stuff. Of course it isn't just a "switch", left and right are a spectrum of ideologies, you can be either a Social-Democrat or a Tankie and be considered left-wing, the same way you can be a contitutionalist or an AnCap and be considered right-wing. Still though, ideological labels are fundamentally just labels, and as a matter of policymaking, they should always take a back seat to actual real-life results of said policies. Manaban said: Heh, I basically just didn't give a crap about the video. So I cut it out of my response to OP. Dunno who Bob is though since I don't know anime youtubers.As much as I dislike a lot of the political stuff and how it seems to be growing more and more present lately, I would still rather wrap a noose around my neck than listen to Bob talk about literally anything. If the vid is a prerequisite, I'm out. As for High Guardian Spice (which seems to be the thing people are talking about when they raise this bigger point), I guess at some point I'll get off my butt and read up on it and/or watch its trailer. And I'll decide then whether/how I care about it or not. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| I would also like to point out, as some who indetifies as a liberal-conservative with libertarian ideas (I just straight up say "I'm right-wing" because it's not like people will understand my position in instances if i say that), i disagreed with a good of points he made on that video. And continuing my point from earlier: With so much western media taking the queer theory seriously, it makes me happy that DarliFra takes the gender-essentialism route. |
| mmm some of my friends who identify as conservative if anything, seem to only prefer the older shows as in their eyes "it's the only animes worth watching and everything else that isn't hand drawn, is garbage". I've tried to get them to different anime but they're so tied to the fact that if it's not hand drawn anime it's not worth their time and viewing and shouldn't be considered anime period as it's more of a watered down cartoon or whatever they say. |
Manaban said: Sorry I missed your expanded edit.Because I am highly certain that those shows aren't espousing or really backing any kind of political ideology, they're pretty much just boobie fun most of the time and it seems kind of far reaching and silly to treat them as being any sort of deeper commentary on something societal like this. Especially from a creative intent standpoint. I really, really doubt any manga artist or animator is sitting there, twirling their mustache and saying "Muahahahaha, this will really, truly convince people that this type of sexualization in media is okay and leave a lasting impact on society in a way I'm deeming for the better." And a show that markets itself through citing gender ratios first and foremost right out of the gate and saying very, very few things about the show itself doesn't really fall into that same camp, at least if you ask me. I agree that that sort of marketing doesn't convince me of anything. It does tell me something about creator's intent, yes, but I actually ignore creator's intent when enjoying/interpreting a show, so it ends up being moot. thewiru said: I'm gonna watch Darling in the FranXX at some point and I have no idea what queer theory and gender-essentialism are (much less whether "western media" is taking them seriously), so I probably won't associate either with the show. (Though I also want to avoid spoilers so I should probably GTFO before I watch it...)With so much western media taking the queer theory seriously, it makes me happy that DarliFra takes the gender-essentialism route. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: And so if people want to have "boobie fun" they should be able to indulge their taste in anime, why shouldn't those people who want something else? Why does someone saying they want to make something different or take things in a new direction suddenly get people alleging a "political agenda" and railing against it? Or is it just because that's not what some existing fans wanted (and so much for "innovativeness" in anime)? Which doesn't make sense because it's not like any existing series or genre is going to poof out of existence just because someone else made another anime series about whatever. You're asking these questions to the wrong person because I really, really don't care if things backing certain ideologies exist. It's just going to be cases like this over and over again with me - I see a product advertised right out of the gate by rattling off things like gender ratios and using a lot of political terminology relevant more to real life society and barely doing anything to make the show itself seem interesting past these kinds of politics - past some stuff about 2D animation, which can honestly kiss my ass given how much I dislike this kind of aesthetic to begin with tbh - and then I watch as my interest or desire to give it any of my time rapidly ticks to 0. It's just the bikini battle armor argument shit, yet again. Using it as a metaphor, I really don't give a shit if non-bikini armor is made for people who don't want to use bikini armor, and I don't give a shit if they voice as much. So long as I can use my bikini armor, I don't care. So long as the case is what is being allowed for people to consume - past some really specific parameters but I won't delve too much into that since it'd be tangiental - and not trying to stop the existence of other types of media from existing alongside the parameters of an ideology, I don't care. I think it's a terrible move on CR's part in relation to their consumerbase and so I'll gleefully watch them rack up bad will with audiences like this, and therefore do kind of support the existence of the show alongside those much more malicious lines, but hoping it hurts them and their relations with their audience is pretty much as far as my investment in this show's existence will go for the time being. That said, the issues I find with a lot of the ecchi arguments regarding inclusivity and the directions people wish to take it in generally stems from how I think it's a bad direction and that the criticisms often seem rooted in an approach to sexualization that I view as completely backwards in regards to understanding these elements. The apathy extends both ways - I don't care if they feel offended or marginalized by this type of content as much as I care little about them wanting something "more mature" or whatever - but I am being given something I would rather see build on this identity and push itself further and further in the current direction it's heading, rather than turning around and trying to make itself appear more tasteful or palatable to what's often a peripheral audience at best, one that's often spouting ideas that are either outright reductive to the presence of these elements within these types of series or trying to change the type of identity and approach that these series have all together into something different under a general, singular approach to the concept of sexually indulging media at that. There's no reason series have to appeal to everybody and these various interests and niches can actually fucking co-exist alongside each other in a medium such as this, as much as people want to turn it into a black and white, it's one or the other dichotomy. At which point, I'm willing to make my voice heard in defense of as much and try to explain myself to the best of my ability. So, yeah. Past my pettiness, I'm meeting this the same as I meet the existence of pretty much any other type of media that doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. "I don't care." I think CR is a shitty company and want them to go down the shitter, but that's been well-before any of this unearthed itself. |
ManabanAug 25, 2018 4:48 PM
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| The community has room for absolutely everyone who behaves with a modicum of respect for others, and their opinions. Not exactly what you will find on MAL, but still... |
Pullman said: jal90 said: Dude wtf. If there's a prevalent discourse in the anime community, it's the conservative one. Stop victimizing yourselves, you are (sadly) the majority. Yeah that too. As a liberal on MAL I feel like I'm in the minority most of the time, on most issues, in most threads. Just look at the High Guardian Spice thread, almost everyone is shitting on it with the most positive responses being 'I don't give a shit about it' and only me and maybe one or two other guys trying to kinds argue back and dismantle their knee-jerk reactions to the trailer. How is that an atmosphere where conservatives get oppressed or can even feel like being in the minority? Are they really that delusional or is this just some grand manipulation tactic? I should be the one whining about anime being seen as a safe zone that belongs to only them, by a lot of 'conservatives' in the community who'd love to remove any liberal, progressive, diversity elements from it.  I think I remember you used something like this before. The whole point is that the anime industry, community, licencors etc. Should NOT have any political bias. That includes a right-wing political bias... Like I said MAL is actually fairly neutral compared to other communities. Watch the trailer of High Guardian Spice and tell me that it's not blatantly just pushing a political agenda, they barely talk about the actual show. If you're talking about people with power in the communities, just look at the mods. How many of them do you think are right-leaning or conservative? Stop being on the internet all day, go to a anime convention or university anime club and see how many people have right-wing beliefs. As far as censorship that's actually something I see promoted more on the left. Go to website like Anifem and look how many articles there are about how anime "needs to change". I'm not saying things like High Guardian Spice shouldn't exist, but rather that they shouldn't go out of their way to alienate their viewer base and yeah I do believe companies should do what they want with their money, but if those things financially blow up in their face that's their fault too and they shouldn't blame the audience. |
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
| I'm kind of tired at this point of forced politics and agendas. Anime and the other mediums are supposed to brings us together, but these days everything is about pushing some sort of agenda and making a statement and everyone being divided into gropus. Just like how people where mad that Far Cry 5 that didn't portray conservative christians as complete monsters and that it didn't criticize "Trump's America". They were basically mad because the game wasn't political enough, when it wasn't even trying to be. And conservatives were complaining that FC5 was some "White Genocide Simulator" because the villains were white christian men but it turned out it wasn't. Can people just stop ? Ffs. Beloved franchises have been butchered thanks to everyone trying to make a political statement about the right or left, or gun control, or LGBTQ-whatever the fuck and so on. And these idiotic complaints about there not being enough strong or fat whamen and gay or genderfuild characters is just stupid. There are tons of stories with diverse casts, but no that's not enough we need more, we need more LGBTQ and genderfluid people and black people, but less (or no) white men. Just fucking stupid. And here I thought that diversity is about everyone being included and having equal representation. Just like a youtuber by the name of The Dishonored Wolf said and I quote: "Can both sides of this retarded contest of who's the bigger faggot just blow their idiot brains out already ?" |
| Who cares? Is there a rule that you need to be this and that to watch anime? Just watch your cartoons and let others do the same if they feel like it. |
9mm_Revy said: Aka the good ol "cartoons are for kids" excuse?mmm some of my friends who identify as conservative if anything, seem to only prefer the older shows as in their eyes "it's the only animes worth watching and everything else that isn't hand drawn, is garbage". I've tried to get them to different anime but they're so tied to the fact that if it's not hand drawn anime it's not worth their time and viewing and shouldn't be considered anime period as it's more of a watered down cartoon or whatever they say. |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
| its capitalism like i said many times before, to maximize profit like capitalism wants businesses will preach globalization to get more customers that means none whites and female customers too and any other customers with different cultural backgrounds anime itself is not anti-conservative its just a business trying to make more money |
| Anime community has space for anime fans. Simple as that. |
| Welcome to club: Anime that Should Continue http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=37045 |
LoneWolf said: Well, this thread got me morbidly curious enough to actually watch this trailer.Watch the trailer of High Guardian Spice and tell me that it's not blatantly just pushing a political agenda, they barely talk about the actual show. Here it is again, for the sake of reference. 0. This only looks kinda "anime". Closest anime thing this reminds me of is Little Witch Academia (which I haven't seen, incidentally). Not to mention MAL wouldn't even list this because it's done by Americans and not Japanese folks. But anyway, why are people here so damn worked up about this? It's not like people are getting tied up and forced to watch this. 1. They spent most of the video talking about stuff that has nothing to do with diversity (or any other political issue) anyway, unless you also count the comment that they get to do creative things that other studios aren't doing. That said, they also spent most of the video not really talking about the show itself, and more about their intentions with regard to it, such as their own aspirations with regards to 2D animation (presumably meaning outside the realm of the anime art style, which this isn't). There's only one snippet that actually talks about the setting premise (four girls at school in a magical city aiming to become "guardians"), aside from the concept art previews which are shown all over the video. 2. There's a comment at around 46 seconds in, where one person says that they liked how the cast of characters is "diverse" and they enjoy that. So, what's wrong with this? I honestly don't see how this is any different from, say, an indie game dev a few years ago saying that there weren't enough good 2D platformers on the market and wanting to do one because that excited them. (Or is there only respect for "creator's vision" when it means not rephrasing cusswords or sexual references?) 3. Only at the end of the video is there a (pointless, in my opinion) comment about how their studio is 50% female and their writing team (or whatever "writers' room" means) is 100% female. Where's this "blatantly pushing a political agenda"? I don't see it. I'm probably not gonna care much about watching this, anyway, unless it falls more toward the sassier side of things (I wanna use Absolute Duo as an example even though it's a poor example, but it's like the first one I can think of from stuff I've watched), rather than feeling like something like MLP. LoneWolf said: In most cases, these people just don't mix their political beliefs with their hobby anyway, so you wouldn't be able to tell. Not everyone enjoys going around doing ideological crusading -- especially when other people in the fandom just want a place to gather in a small group and have a good time.If you're talking about people with power in the communities, just look at the mods. How many of them do you think are right-leaning or conservative? Stop being on the internet all day, go to a anime convention or university anime club and see how many people have right-wing beliefs. LoneWolf said: I don't see how criticising anime and saying it "needs to change" in this way or that is at all unique to leftists/feminists. Here at Anime Discussion there are a dime-a-dozen threads criticising the anime medium as a whole in a variety of ways, saying that shows lack innovation, that things are too cliché, that there's too much reliance on certain tropes, that they should show more sexuality, that they should show less sexuality, that they should stop pandering to or pander more to this or that audience, that this show should stop or that show should be revived, that this art style is bad or that older art style is better, etc. etc. etc.. People have opinions; this is nothing new.As far as censorship that's actually something I see promoted more on the left. Go to website like Anifem and look how many articles there are about how anime "needs to change". Vlad4o said: Putting aside the fact that diversity is a bit of a silly concept when it comes to fictional, fantastic settings (yeah, go, start complaining that the goblinfolk are negatively stereotyped compared to the dragonkin, lol)...I'm kind of tired at this point of forced politics and agendas. Anime and the other mediums are supposed to brings us together, but these days everything is about pushing some sort of agenda and making a statement and everyone being divided into gropus. Just like how people where mad that Far Cry 5 that didn't portray conservative christians as complete monsters and that it didn't criticize "Trump's America". They were basically mad because the game wasn't political enough, when it wasn't even trying to be. And conservatives were complaining that FC5 was some "White Genocide Simulator" because the villains were white christian men but it turned out it wasn't. Can people just stop ? Ffs. Beloved franchises have been butchered thanks to everyone trying to make a political statement about the right or left, or gun control, or LGBTQ-whatever the fuck and so on. And these idiotic complaints about there not being enough strong or fat whamen and gay or genderfuild characters is just stupid. There are tons of stories with diverse casts, but no that's not enough we need more, we need more LGBTQ and genderfluid people and black people, but less (or no) white men. Just fucking stupid. And here I thought that diversity is about everyone being included and having equal representation. Y'know, honestly, I'm more okay with creators having their own ideas (including political ones) that they want to put into their works, and more annoyed at people reading too hard and making giant stinks about things being "political". So here's my reaction to the sorts of complaints these people make. 2. Sure, enjoy your own interpretation. You think it has a political message. Okay, cool. Everyone has opinions and interpretations and what various things mean to them. 1. Do not guilt me for enjoying or not enjoying it. 0. So what if it is "political"? Why should I fucking care? (Heck, maybe it's a little more fun this way if it's a little...spicy!~) Nah, I'm just gonna go enjoy what I enjoy enjoying. and this is why watching anime alone without hanging out with fandom peeps is better |
GlennMagusHarveyAug 25, 2018 5:49 PM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
thewiru said: jal90 said: Dude wtf. If there's a prevalent discourse in the anime community, it's the conservative one. Stop victimizing yourselves, you are (sadly) the majority. InB4 most of this thread being non-conservative. Inb4 most of this thread doesn't represent the anime community as a whole at all |
| See, greymood knows where it's at! Give greymood a prize. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Pullman said: jal90 said: Dude wtf. If there's a prevalent discourse in the anime community, it's the conservative one. Stop victimizing yourselves, you are (sadly) the majority. Yeah that too. As a liberal on MAL I feel like I'm in the minority most of the time, on most issues, in most threads. Just look at the High Guardian Spice thread, almost everyone is shitting on it with the most positive responses being 'I don't give a shit about it' and only me and maybe one or two other guys trying to kinds argue back and dismantle their knee-jerk reactions to the trailer. How is that an atmosphere where conservatives get oppressed or can even feel like being in the minority? Are they really that delusional or is this just some grand manipulation tactic? I should be the one whining about anime being seen as a safe zone that belongs to only them, by a lot of 'conservatives' in the community who'd love to remove any liberal, progressive, diversity elements from it. Well my Question to them would be "why do you make a point out of it?" The Guardian Spice just had a pretty bad Trailer that didn't tell much about the Show but more about how Diverse the Studio is. They just see The Guardian Spice as a sign of the Left Taking over (Even though CR is bringing in many Anime that have Different Ideas that aren't Left Like Darlifra). But I will not say that The Guardian spice Sucks. Maybe it will be a fun show that is actually not bad. Diversity is not a bad thing really. Anime should be a place where ppl with Conflicting beliefs, Cultures, Ideas can express themselves without getting Deplatformed/kicked out (and thus a Liberal place in a sense of "I may disagree with you but I will not silence you"). |
| No, conservatives aren't allowed to watch anime. If you are a conservative who watches anime then you must commit ritual seppuku in the town square as according to the ancient anime code. |
 |
| I watched the video with the Bob guy. I'm not a conservative, but part of me understands where he's coming from, like how he doesn't like politics shoved his face when he enjoys his hobbies. But he lost me when he said that he thought that fapping at Anime girls, and being proud of being alone is wrong. The full-piece suit with the American flag pin in the lapel was just completely unnecessary. |
 |
Seiya said: But he lost me when he said that he thought that fapping at Anime girls, and being proud of being alone is wrong. Fucking hell, did he actually go into this again? I've found his takes on this so stupid in the past that it's why I refused to watch the video in the first place, and why I refuse to watch him or listen to him all together (which is something I'll offer to even Mother's Basement, ffs) but christ's sake man, I didn't actually expect him to go on that tangent about how much he despises that people jack it to anime girls in this video too ._. |
ManabanAug 25, 2018 6:44 PM
|
| This whole situation is pretty hilarious to me. I think the best part is how once again conservatives have become the very "snowflakes" they love to demean liberals for being. Woe is me, I'm a conservative! Big Tech hates me! Not to mention the whole situation being over this god awful looking "anime" that will be trash regardless of political stance. |
Nithirel said: This whole situation is pretty hilarious to me. I think the best part is how once again conservatives have become the very "snowflakes" they love to demean liberals for being. Woe is me, I'm a conservative! Big Tech hates me! Not to mention the whole situation being over this god awful looking "anime" that will be trash regardless of political stance. "...for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
264354287Aug 25, 2018 7:08 PM
| Dude, it just America/west. Japan couldn't care less about what CR and the west do. This thread sounds like conservative trying to play the 'victim card'. "Bwahh...I'm a conservative and the community hate me for it". Bobsamurai is retarded anyway. CR controversy is just an opportunity for anime youtube to gain publicity so people watch their video. TAS has been trying to gain right wing viewership recently. |
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