thizlas said: Because thizlas says so, and what thizlas says is the objective truth.No standard is objectively better than others |
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| @V3rbatim You are making a reference to Camus without understanding him, what a pity. His entire work is based on the fact that the world has no inherent meaning, he literally dismisses the entire idea of objective meaning. Have you even actually read "Le mythe de Sisyphe" ? In chapter 4, he makes it very clear that there is no use in looking for meaning and that what we should strive for is acceptance and not understanding, because there is nothing to understand. He even criticizes other works (from Kafka, Dostoevsky) and says that they don't fit his conception of the absurd because they are intent on finding meaning (Dostoevsky) or still contain hope that it exists (Kafka). It is the first time you make a reference to a book, and it is clear as day that you didn't understand it at all. When you say "As a Camusian absurdist, I find grave, ironic pleasure in finding meaning in meaninglessness.", you not only contradict yourself by admitting that there is no objective meaning and basically saying that we must replace it with our own subjective meaning, but you also show that you don't understand Camus' thinking at all. To put it in a nutshell, you just lost the minuscule amount of credit you had left. |
thizlasAug 20, 2018 2:22 PM
V3rbatim said: thizlas said: Because thizlas says so, and what thizlas says is the objective truth.No standard is objectively better than others No, simply because there is no way of comparing them to each other that isn't itself based on subjective values. |
thizlas said: Apparently.I have never read Camus thizlas said: That can also be further debated on as to which is better.No, simply because there is no way of comparing them to each other that isn't itself based on subjective values. 98 IQ guaranteed. |
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Yudina said: Fvlminatvs said: This is a very post-structuralist/post-modern take here, friend. A very surprising turn of events. ;)The fact that you can never truly objectively evaluate a text is not a problem and doesn't throw us into some Sartre-inspired existential ennui at the meaninglessness of life. One that I happen to slightly disagree with actually. Our ideas and thoughts change and mature. I understand where V3rbatim is coming from but the more I discuss critical theory and analysis in art/literature with my colleagues and old grad school pals, the more my ideas develop. I do believe we can be pretty unbiased about specific things in art but not fully about everything. Even if 100% certainty is an impossibility, I'll happily settle for 95%. I'm still very much sympathetic toward structuralism when it comes to specific things and am not a fan of postmodernism because I feel that it takes an extremist approach to subjectivity, which is why V3rbatim is flipping the hell out and refusing to listen to reason or take any sort of nuanced approach to critical theory. And I happen to personally believe in certain things, like moral and ethical absolutes in a metaphysical sense. I temper those beliefs with the admission that I could very well be 100% wrong about everything, which is why I'm not some sort of moral crusader. The first step one should take in being intellectually honest is to have a dose of humility and admit that one is a biased being and could be absolutely wrong. |
| @V3rbatim I never wrote that I didn't read Camus. You are the one who didn't understand him. Once again you twist the words of someone who put you in a tough spot in order to escape. You can't debate on which values/criteria are better than others without having another set of values to guide your reasoning, and it's endless. Values are not facts, they are ways to interpret facts. Values/criteria can only be justified by other values/criteria. Because when trying to justify values with facts, you always end up needing to interpret these facts in a certain way and are therefore necessarily using another set of criteria/values to justify the use of other values. It's endless. What's more, you can base your judgment on very vast criteria like a certain conception of art, of mankind or of happiness, or even -theoritically- on all possible criteria at the same time (which is a stupid idea because it is inconceivable) and it wouldn't make it more objective. An opinion that takes more criteria into account is simply a more complex opinion. Indeed, "better", just like,"good" and "bad", is a word that only expresses subjective things. "objectively better" doesn't mean anything. Your whole reasoning is based on your twisting this word to make it seem like to judge is the same thing as to observe. When you describe properties of an object, you make observations. When you compare its properties to those of another object using criteria, there is a subjectivity involved : things don't compare themselves to each other, things exist. Comparison is by definition a subjective act. The whole idea of objective judgement is paradoxical. |
thizlasAug 20, 2018 5:24 PM
| It is apparent that you haven't, or if you have, you don't understand him. You can't debate on which values/criteria are better than others without having another set of values to guide your reasoning, and it's endless. You can still try. The fact that you're too thick in the head to understand this is not my problem. and it wouldn't make it more objective. An opinion that takes more criteria into account is simply a more complex opinion. Complex opinions have more value. |
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V3rbatim said: AstZero said: Why would they? We're having an on-topic conversation.It's really a miracle that the mods haven't locked this thread yet lol. Nope, you're not. The subjectivity vs objectivity in art debate definitely doesn't answer the question "Do some anime fandoms posses higher intelligence than others?" to which by the way the answer is a definite "No". |
| The beauty of humans is that they say one thing then do another, but at the same time that can also be their ugliest side. |
| @V3rbatim Well at least I tried. I'm looking forward to the day when you will publish your book and get demolished (as you seem to always do) by critics. This time it will be in the public space and you will forever lose all credibility. At this point it seems like only this could give you a shock big enough to make you realize how delusional you are. You seem to value having the last say more than actually being right ; I don't, so this time I really won't answer anymore unless you stop misrepresenting my reasonings and actually adress them. |
AstZero said: It is directly related to the question.Nope, you're not. The subjectivity vs objectivity in art debate definitely doesn't answer the question "Do some anime fandoms posses higher intelligence than others?" to which by the way the answer is a definite "No". thizlas said: I win.@V3rbatim Well at least I tried. I'm looking forward to the day when you will publish your book and get demolished (as you seem to always do) by critics. This time it will be in the public space and you will forever lose all credibility. At this point it seems like only this could give you a shock big enough to make you realize how delusional you are. You seem to value having the last say more than actually being right ; I don't, so this time I really won't answer anymore unless you stop misrepresenting my reasonings and actually adress them. |
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IpreferEcchi said: Like the Berserk, LoGH, etc. fandoms versus Darling in the FranXX and others. Define intelligence first ;p This is simply an unanswerable question. Especially more so if IQ is your criteria for measuring intelligence and judging people, which is a highly narrow-minded overview of intelligence in humans. |
 Truly a Divine Comedy  |
| If you are a Tex fan you clearly have superiour intelleginnnnce toooo everones all times. |
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ThereArentNames said: Damn bro, I'm sure you get that mad P everyday amirite.You bloody jokers need to get laid. As quick as you can. |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
| I don't even need to read this whole thread to know it's become a train wreck For the record my answer is no, entertainment (incl. anime) taste does not dictate intelligence, although I will concede any reasoning for it is anecdotal. |
  300th pun xchyssa said: You got some nice viewpoint there, I always know I can't fool you with my sharpest tagging skills |
| I would eat popcorn here if I didn't save it for watching anime. |
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CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man?!Most Evangelion fags seem to think they have high intelligence and yet they don't even realize their favorite show is trash. |
Aslat24 said: CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man?!Most Evangelion fags seem to think they have high intelligence and yet they don't even realize their favorite show is trash. I don't know, how many times a day does an Eva fan need to convince themselves that Eva isn't shit? Because the fact that you are replying to me (again) just goes to show how insecure you are about the quality of one of your favorite anime. |
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| The Boku no Pico fandom has the most intellectuals for sure. Followed closely by Garzey's Wing and Mars of Destruction. The holy trinity of the intellectual elite of the anime fandom. |
V3rbatim said: Why?Complex opinions have more value. CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: Turnabout is fair play. If you can't handle the banter, leave. Also, aren't you the same person who said Eva was a cliche psychological show? At this point, I'm convinced you either didn't watch Eva or you did and you didn't pay attention for the first twenty episodes.Aslat24 said: How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, old man?! I don't know, how many times a day does an Eva fan need to convince themselves that Eva isn't shit? Because the fact that you are replying to me (again) just goes to show how insecure you are about the quality of one of your favorite anime. |
| clearly people who have seen nami are smarter than people who haven't https://myanimelist.net/anime/29949/Nami |
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The_Missing_Link said: clearly people who have seen nami are smarter than people who haven't https://myanimelist.net/anime/29949/Nami Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well. |
Skankins said: V3rbatim said: Why?Complex opinions have more value. CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: Turnabout is fair play. If you can't handle the banter, leave. Also, aren't you the same person who said Eva was a cliche psychological show? At this point, I'm convinced you either didn't watch Eva or you did and you didn't pay attention for the first twenty episodes.I don't know, how many times a day does an Eva fan need to convince themselves that Eva isn't shit? Because the fact that you are replying to me (again) just goes to show how insecure you are about the quality of one of your favorite anime. Yes, that would be me, however in my original post of that other thread I stated that it turns into a generic psychological anime. Yes, in future replies in that same thread I called it simply a generic psychological anime when I meant that it turns into that of a generic psychological anime. Trust me I've seen it lol, why would I pretend that I've watched it? If you would like other complaints I have with it, then here you go. First off it is a very poorly done episodic anime where every episode follows the exact same formula. Admittedly it has been awhile since I've last seen NGE, but I remember there being an episode where Shinji is being a bitch and refusing to go fight the angel almost the entire episode, but it's very predictable that he is going to just do the fucking thing and it just made me wonder what the point of the episode even was. Another complaint I have is that NGE doesn't take advantage of the setting that it's set in. Rather it simply uses it as a plot device to conveniently bring another episode where Shinji's gotta fight a big bad angel. And on the topic of Shinji, he's a very poorly written MC, and not very interesting. Surely I don't have to say anything about how bad the final two episodes. It takes everything the anime set up, and throws it away for a generic psychological theme. |
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| Legend says that Pingu in the City fans have the highest IQ of them all; which is way I haven't watched it yet... not bright enough for that stuff. |
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CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: This is rich coming from a guy with Naruto in his favorites. You are not allowed to call anything generic.Skankins said: Why?Turnabout is fair play. If you can't handle the banter, leave. Also, aren't you the same person who said Eva was a cliche psychological show? At this point, I'm convinced you either didn't watch Eva or you did and you didn't pay attention for the first twenty episodes. Yes, that would be me, however in my original post of that other thread I stated that it turns into a generic psychological anime. Yes, in future replies in that same thread I called it simply a generic psychological anime when I meant that it turns into that of a generic psychological anime. Trust me I've seen it lol, why would I pretend that I've watched it? If you would like other complaints I have with it, then here you go. First off it is a very poorly done episodic anime where every episode follows the exact same formula. Admittedly it has been awhile since I've last seen NGE, but I remember there being an episode where Shinji is being a bitch and refusing to go fight the angel almost the entire episode, but it's very predictable that he is going to just do the fucking thing and it just made me wonder what the point of the episode even was. Another complaint I have is that NGE doesn't take advantage of the setting that it's set in. Rather it simply uses it as a plot device to conveniently bring another episode where Shinji's gotta fight a big bad angel. And on the topic of Shinji, he's a very poorly written MC, and not very interesting. Surely I don't have to say anything about how bad the final two episodes. It takes everything the anime set up, and throws it away for a generic psychological theme. |
Aslat24 said: CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: This is rich coming from a guy with Naruto in his favorites. You are not allowed to call anything generic.Yes, that would be me, however in my original post of that other thread I stated that it turns into a generic psychological anime. Yes, in future replies in that same thread I called it simply a generic psychological anime when I meant that it turns into that of a generic psychological anime. Trust me I've seen it lol, why would I pretend that I've watched it? If you would like other complaints I have with it, then here you go. First off it is a very poorly done episodic anime where every episode follows the exact same formula. Admittedly it has been awhile since I've last seen NGE, but I remember there being an episode where Shinji is being a bitch and refusing to go fight the angel almost the entire episode, but it's very predictable that he is going to just do the fucking thing and it just made me wonder what the point of the episode even was. Another complaint I have is that NGE doesn't take advantage of the setting that it's set in. Rather it simply uses it as a plot device to conveniently bring another episode where Shinji's gotta fight a big bad angel. And on the topic of Shinji, he's a very poorly written MC, and not very interesting. Surely I don't have to say anything about how bad the final two episodes. It takes everything the anime set up, and throws it away for a generic psychological theme. Yes yes, prove more how pretentious and entitled you are. Done wasting my time on Eva fans who can't handle criticism. |
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CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: I mean I would’ve given a rebuttal on your criticism if it was warranted, but all of your points just proved that Skankins was right, you didn’t pay attention to the show. I’m sorry there wasn’t enough Shounen battle scenes in Eva for you to enjoy it. Just stick to One Piece and Naruto.Aslat24 said: This is rich coming from a guy with Naruto in his favorites. You are not allowed to call anything generic. Yes yes, prove more how pretentious and entitled you are. Done wasting my time on Eva fans who can't handle criticism. |
Aslat24 said: CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: I mean I would’ve given a rebuttal on your criticism if it was warranted, but all of your points just proved that Skankins was right, you didn’t pay attention to the show. I’m sorry there wasn’t enough Shounen battle scenes in Eva for you to enjoy it. Just stick to One Piece and Naruto.Yes yes, prove more how pretentious and entitled you are. Done wasting my time on Eva fans who can't handle criticism. Let's give this man a round of applause for proving my original post in this thread. You write off my criticisms because "I wasn't paying attention" or in other words, that I didn't understand it. And I think I will stick to my Naruto and One Piece, because at least those fandom's aren't filled with pretentious brats. |
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CHAMPIONOFDEATH said: I guess I'll respond to this in list form.Skankins said: Why?Turnabout is fair play. If you can't handle the banter, leave. Also, aren't you the same person who said Eva was a cliche psychological show? At this point, I'm convinced you either didn't watch Eva or you did and you didn't pay attention for the first twenty episodes. Yes, that would be me, however in my original post of that other thread I stated that it turns into a generic psychological anime. Yes, in future replies in that same thread I called it simply a generic psychological anime when I meant that it turns into that of a generic psychological anime. Trust me I've seen it lol, why would I pretend that I've watched it? If you would like other complaints I have with it, then here you go. First off it is a very poorly done episodic anime where every episode follows the exact same formula. Admittedly it has been awhile since I've last seen NGE, but I remember there being an episode where Shinji is being a bitch and refusing to go fight the angel almost the entire episode, but it's very predictable that he is going to just do the fucking thing and it just made me wonder what the point of the episode even was. Another complaint I have is that NGE doesn't take advantage of the setting that it's set in. Rather it simply uses it as a plot device to conveniently bring another episode where Shinji's gotta fight a big bad angel. And on the topic of Shinji, he's a very poorly written MC, and not very interesting. Surely I don't have to say anything about how bad the final two episodes. It takes everything the anime set up, and throws it away for a generic psychological theme. 1. Every episode follows the exact same formula? What about the three Rei episodes, which slowly build up one angel (Ramiel) as a threat, complete a character arc for Rei, give Shinji a chance to be truly heroic, and do all of these things over the course of a three episode myth arc that ties back into the main narrative of the plot? How is that "episodic"? How is that done poorly? 2. Is the episode you are referring to the one that ends with Kaji telling Shinji to give piloting the Evas another try while watering his garden? That episode's really good and ties directly into the moral of End of Eva. I can see you would think its somewhat repetitive, since it is ultimately another episode in which"Shinji is being a bitch and refusing to go fight the angel almost the entire episode, but it's very predictable that he is going to just do the fucking thing", but that's the point. Shinji stands on uneven ground, and he tends to relapse and run away when his comrades fail to address his worries on his terms. It takes Kaji, the closest thing the series has to a positive male rolemodel, to bring Shinj back down to earth and convince him that the world is worth fighting for. If that isn't good character writing then nothing is. 3. NGE doesn't take advantage of its setting? Literally all of the fights do this. Furthermore, the assault on the GeoFront during End of Eva is one of the coolest scenes in anime history. Also, literally everything related to story telling is techincally a "plot device". You're going to have to be more specific. 4. Shinji is poorly written? I think he's the second greatest anime character of all time. Please voice specific concerns. 5. The last two episodes aren't very good, but they absolutely have the right to exist and they don't contradict the rest of the series in any way, shape, or form. Also, End of Eva pretty much replaces the last two episodes in the canon as far as plot is concerned, and End of Eva is a masterpiece. Aslat24 said: Naruto isn't generic. Flame of Recca is generic. Bleach is generic. Naruto is just uncomfortably similar to HxH.This is rich coming from a guy with Naruto in his favorites. You are not allowed to call anything generic. |
| Because 2+2=4. If I ask you why a show is good, and you simply say "because," that doesn't tell me anything at all. Your opinion has no value because you don't have one, or at least, you're not conveying anything to me. You're just saying that the show is good because it's good. If I ask someone else, and they're able to give me incisive details as to why the show is good, I'm far more likely to gain an understanding. Therefore, their opinion has more value. |
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| The answer is yes. And it also concern with EQ, SQ. |
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V3rbatim said: That's a strawman. Complex opinions don't equal complete opinions. For example, I don't like Psycho Pass. There are plenty of people who do like Psycho Pass, and have complex reasons for doing so. They'll bring up the thematic narrative of the series. They'll bring up the nuance with which Gen Urobuchi discusses social change. However, I don't like Psycho Pass because I think the dialogue is abrasive and as a result I find the characters obnoxious. No amount of thematic analysis is going to change that simple opinion. How is my relatively simple opinion less important than those complex analyses?Skankins said: Because 2+2=4.Why? If I ask you why a show is good, and you simply say "because," that doesn't tell me anything at all. Your opinion has no value because you don't have one, or at least, you're not conveying anything to me. You're just saying that the show is good because it's good. If I ask someone else, and they're able to give me incisive details as to why the show is good, I'm far more likely to gain an understanding. Therefore, their opinion has more value. |
| Short answer: no. The only truth is that when an show is very popular more annoying the fandoms will be. |
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
Skankins said: It goes without saying. It's axiomatic. You described why in your own post.V3rbatim said: That's a strawman. Complex opinions don't equal complete opinions. For example, I don't like Psycho Pass. There are plenty of people who do like Psycho Pass, and have complex reasons for doing so. They'll bring up the thematic narrative of the series. They'll bring up the nuance with which Gen Urobuchi discusses social change. However, I don't like Psycho Pass because I think the dialogue is abrasive and as a result I find the characters obnoxious. No amount of thematic analysis is going to change that simple opinion. How is my relatively simple opinion less important than those complex analyses?Because 2+2=4. If I ask you why a show is good, and you simply say "because," that doesn't tell me anything at all. Your opinion has no value because you don't have one, or at least, you're not conveying anything to me. You're just saying that the show is good because it's good. If I ask someone else, and they're able to give me incisive details as to why the show is good, I'm far more likely to gain an understanding. Therefore, their opinion has more value. |
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| i don't know about the others but i used to join fandoms for the entertainment value and its ability to take my mind off somewhere especially when i'm stressed. if i want to delve in and challenge my intellect i'll just join a different nerdy group for that or get a phd in the field I'm interested in. now if we talk about the show's target audience you will see the breakdown and generalization you are looking for. |
| There are no dumb or worse fanbases, only dumb or bad fans. |
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| The way this thread went was totally how I expected it to go. |
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