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Kuroshitsuji Chapter 142 Discussion

Black Butler
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What did you think of this chapter?
5Loved it!
4Liked it!
3It was OK
2Disliked it
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Aug 10, 2018 12:21 AM
#1
Nobody5464
Offline
Dec 2016
473
THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER.
----------------------------------------
Just starting these now that forums are back
Aug 10, 2018 10:54 PM
#2
Javra
Offline
Feb 2016
1
Why does R!Ciel hate Sebastian so much? Does he hate him for a) Consuming his soul (I don't really think that's it, considering that he doesn't blame O!Ciel for giving it up) b) Looking like his father (maybe Undertaker told him the kind of stuff that Vincent was involved in, and R!Ciel blames his father for the suffering that he made them go through, therefore, he hates Sebastian because he looks like him) or c) He hates him because he is jealous of how reliant Ciel is of Sebastian and, he wants to have his place back as his brothers pillar.
Aug 11, 2018 9:35 AM
#3
Kitsu-nee

Offline
May 2010
6660
Seeing Elizabeth knew everything, her recent behavior is rather understandable… Hopefully we'll get to learn more about our Ciel soon enough, now that more people know what’s going on, they ought to call him by his actual name… right?!
Aug 11, 2018 12:43 PM
#4
Ten

Offline
May 2015
2966
And just like that, everyone knows. I really thought they would at least debate a little before the big reveal to the public but it seems elder Ciel has no reason to debate anything cause he is rightfully an earl. Still, our poor Ciel looks really shocked and I feel sorry for him. On one hand, I'm glad that his brother is alive, but on the other, is it really him? What about the soul Sebastian consumed? And why kill Agni?

Also I like how calm and collected Tanaka is throughout all this.
Aug 12, 2018 12:02 AM
#5
Nobody5464
Offline
Dec 2016
473
ten said:
And just like that, everyone knows. I really thought they would at least debate a little before the big reveal to the public but it seems elder Ciel has no reason to debate anything cause he is rightfully an earl. Still, our poor Ciel looks really shocked and I feel sorry for him. On one hand, I'm glad that his brother is alive, but on the other, is it really him? What about the soul Sebastian consumed? And why kill Agni?

Also I like how calm and collected Tanaka is throughout all this.

Actually he’s not rightfully an earl he’s dead he losses his right of succession when he dies. Even if our ciel hadn’t taken his name he still would have legally been able to become earl becuase it would have passed to him. Even if real ciel was actually alive and had been missing he still wouldn’t be able to take the title at this point our ciel has already succeeded it and held it for 3 years they wouldn’t change it to him now without some serious circumstances to force their hand which is most likely what real ciel is trying to make
Aug 12, 2018 1:11 AM
#6
Ten

Offline
May 2015
2966
Nobody5464 said:
ten said:
And just like that, everyone knows. I really thought they would at least debate a little before the big reveal to the public but it seems elder Ciel has no reason to debate anything cause he is rightfully an earl. Still, our poor Ciel looks really shocked and I feel sorry for him. On one hand, I'm glad that his brother is alive, but on the other, is it really him? What about the soul Sebastian consumed? And why kill Agni?

Also I like how calm and collected Tanaka is throughout all this.

Actually he’s not rightfully an earl he’s dead he losses his right of succession when he dies. Even if our ciel hadn’t taken his name he still would have legally been able to become earl becuase it would have passed to him. Even if real ciel was actually alive and had been missing he still wouldn’t be able to take the title at this point our ciel has already succeeded it and held it for 3 years they wouldn’t change it to him now without some serious circumstances to force their hand which is most likely what real ciel is trying to make


Makes sense, but I meant real Ciel thinks of himself as such and probably our Ciel is overwhelmed with guilt at this point as he always thought of himself as his brother's spare. And I doubt legal details would matter much to people, they don't know he was dead and Elizabeth is already on his side, there is also a fact that our Ciel lied, it can be turned against him easily.
Aug 12, 2018 4:01 PM
#7
SferRae
Offline
Jan 2017
16
The Chapters are so short, and the story seems to be progressing quickly. Not sure if Grell's threesome comment went over everyones head or they chose to ignore it but a tsk would have been nice...
Aug 12, 2018 5:15 PM
#8
Nobody5464
Offline
Dec 2016
473
ten said:
Nobody5464 said:

Actually he’s not rightfully an earl he’s dead he losses his right of succession when he dies. Even if our ciel hadn’t taken his name he still would have legally been able to become earl becuase it would have passed to him. Even if real ciel was actually alive and had been missing he still wouldn’t be able to take the title at this point our ciel has already succeeded it and held it for 3 years they wouldn’t change it to him now without some serious circumstances to force their hand which is most likely what real ciel is trying to make


Makes sense, but I meant real Ciel thinks of himself as such and probably our Ciel is overwhelmed with guilt at this point as he always thought of himself as his brother's spare. And I doubt legal details would matter much to people, they don't know he was dead and Elizabeth is already on his side, there is also a fact that our Ciel lied, it can be turned against him easily.


What I’m saying Is normally in this sistuation even with Elizabeth on his side and our ciels lie our ciel would still retain the position which is most likely why real ciel is causing all this commotion about the music hall and getting the police there about other things
Aug 27, 2018 9:17 PM
#9
NearoC
Offline
Sep 2015
12
ten said:
And just like that, everyone knows. I really thought they would at least debate a little before the big reveal to the public but it seems elder Ciel has no reason to debate anything cause he is rightfully an earl. Still, our poor Ciel looks really shocked and I feel sorry for him. On one hand, I'm glad that his brother is alive, but on the other, is it really him? What about the soul Sebastian consumed? And why kill Agni?

Also I like how calm and collected Tanaka is throughout all this.


It seems to me that, as the dolls are on a whole, they have the memory things moving the body forward but not a soul. Correct?

He has those memories of what his future would've been that can move his body forward, like Undertaker has spoken about before, but more concrete to the point of not just being a mindless zombie, but not actually having a soul. Which I guess... makes it debatable how truly real he is?

Question of whether the soul is a requirement to be yourself I guess, that's sort of philosophical. But yeah, in short I'd assume he absolutely does not have his soul, and it was properly consumed, but he's still driven in the same way his body would've been if he did still have it.
Sep 5, 2018 11:49 AM
#10
Lunipu

Offline
May 2017
92
Poor Ciel?! QQ What the hell is happening... And I mean it could be great that his brother is back but why like thisssss
Aug 18, 2019 1:56 PM
#11
rayeine

Offline
Feb 2015
1246
Lizzy … don’t make me hate you
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