High School DxD (light novel)
  Such depth of field, much detail. Yes, it's not using that dark shading tone. Guess what, DxD is an optimistic story in which love, friendship and children trust win the way. It has some occasional tragedy/drama for flavor, but what exactly made the darker tone necessary outside of your preference? Oh, let not forget the story so far took place in places with very well-lit condition. It's not like Hero can't dark tone the scene when necessary. Because as seen in the example above, Hero Rias standing in a shade had darker tone than Rias in S1e12. Rias is not Rias anymore blah blah. Who died and made the anime design some kind of unviolable primary canon? Unknown in their eyes... Yeah we are getting in the field of subjective imagination here. They changed it (LN to TNK) because the LN designer did not work on the anime. Now they changed it because TNK and the author had a falling out and theh can't reused the design. It's business as usual. It's as simple as this: you hate the art so much? Quit watching it. No one is forcing you to watch it. You can go rewatch TNK version and may be write up your imagination of how that masterpiece should end, nobody is taking that from you. Why the fish are you torturing yourself and then complain? Are you M? If you hope the author will switch back if you nagged enough, he won't. He and TNK fell out and according to his blog post, he's happy with Hero, and most sign indicates JP fans care more about the fact that TNK s3 butchered the story. |
RiverliaApr 30, 2018 6:52 PM
Riverlia said: Such depth of field, much detail. Yes, it's not using that dark shading tone. Guess what, DxD is an optimistic story in which love, friendship and children trust win the way. It has some occasional tragedy/drama for flavor, but what exactly made the darker tone necessary outside of your preference? Oh, let not forget the story so far took place in places with very well-lit condition. It's not like Hero can't dark tone the scene when necessary. Because as seen in the example above, Hero Rias standing in a shade had darker tone than Rias in S1e12. Rias is not Rias anymore blah blah. Who died and made the anime design some kind of unviolable primary canon? Unknown in their eyes... Yeah we are getting in the field of subjective imagination here. They changed it (LN to TNK) because the LN designer did not work on the anime. Now they changed it because TNK and the author had a falling out and theh can't reused the design. It's business as usual. It's as simple as this: you hate the art so much? Quit watching it. No one is forcing you to watch it. You can go rewatch TNK version and may be write up your imagination of how that masterpiece should end, nobody is taking that from you. Why the fish are you torturing yourself and then complain? Are you M? If you hope the author will switch back if you nagged enough, he won't. He and TNK fell out and according to his blog post, he's happy with Hero, and most sign indicates JP fans care more about the fact that TNK s3 butchered the story. I agree . No point complaining it won't ever change back. TNK fucked up a they know it. They lost there main source of Income and in doubt they would be able to pull of vol 9 and 10 . And the fact that he said it would be easy to fix and put the story back on track with TNK is just naive they would of lost more money then gained . Switching studio was probly the best choice |
| What an absolute overblown diatribe of nonsense. DxD was never dark. You fell for a pathetic embelishment on TNK's side. Geniuses? Hahahahaha keep living in that delusional fairy tale then. |
| I will agree that I liked Gotou Junji's designs a billion times better. Rias and Akeno and every female don't feel or look mature. Rias and Akeno look like they could be Issei's classmates and takes away from the whole "onee-san" they're supposed to be. |
| Another piece of shit discussion where the haters can flock to and bitch about moan again. Thank god, these hating ass clowns are a very small majority. Also in MY OPINION, your not a true fan if you can't except the new art and animation and its MORE CLOSER to the novels. Not to mention there are other anime with changed art and animation, like Fairy Tail, Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball and Love Hina and they turned out good |
HollowIchigo58May 1, 2018 11:11 AM
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| I don't get the hate lol, this series was never 8-9 tier to begin with. It's a solid 7 for entertrainment and I am glad we got a new season so I can enjoy some more boobs while there is some plot in the background xD. |
| I was about to write something really long, but seeing this is posted from an alt account I truly can't be bothered to write as much if it's a simple provocation with no more posts guaranteed. I will keep it short. You're either trolling or being completely fucking delusional to take Hero as a completely different show than what came before it. Even if you don't like the new designs (that's fine really, although I personally think they are straight out improvements for almost everyone, and Asia is definitely a strict upgrade - before she didn't feel like the character she was) they are far from being severe enough to warrant such a reaction, lol. The remarks about lack of details or 'washed out colours' are outright untrue. Like what the hell? And I don't see any point in dividing fanservice into tasteful and not, or even making stupid claims that somehow hero is more about tits (not that it's anything negative, but whatever) than before, when from the very first episode, DxD was a show with a significant focus on that aspect. And really, somehow the insignificant glass washing in ending animation is worse and more vulgar than pole dancing from the first ending? Or less tasteful than the tentacle-plant thingy from the OVA? Really? If you have some problems with 'distasteful' nudity or stuff like that, you shouldn't be watching DxD to begin with, and I wonder how you got to love the previous season when they did the exact same thing. Yes, people care about the plot, the myth-fantasy setting was there from the start, it was always heavy on the shonen side of things as well. No wonder people get pissed when the fucking STUPID shit at the end of BorN happens, especially if they actually read the LN and see it as both stupid idea AND butchering of source. What I'm personally baffled by is that you and so many people are surprisingly okay with such a retarded turn of events lol, so incosistent with everything that came before it. Anyway, Hero is mostly viewed positively because: -people, LN watchers or not, aren't fucking delusional like you, and even if they don't like the news designs, they don't treat this as a whole different show (because it isn't, despite you trying to present it as such) and enjoy the new season -others like the new designs, which are really good -LN readers, and people who just realize the born events were idiotic, are happy that it got sort of retconned I, as a long fan of DxD, am overjoyed with how Hero turned out, despite (at first, with announcements and stuff) being worried about the visual overhaul. It looks great, is better animated, especially in the moments it matters, continues to follow the events of LN I like so much. I also loved TNK's adaptation, that's what got me into DxD to begin with, but the truth is, they fucked up with born. It is a shame, really, but stuff happens. In any case, there is zero reason to lose your shit over the change like this, and somehow pretend that the whole anime changed just because of the different artstyle. |
ImaishiMay 1, 2018 1:39 PM
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| OP, DXD was allways a silly ecchi show, his fanservice was never "smart", like, for example Kill la Kill, Penguimdrum or Bakemonogatari. Issei got power upgrade against Vali in S2 end by being tricked into believing that his enemy wanted to make boobs around the world smaller, not so serious or smarty, mkay? Or that filler episode with the slime destroying girls clothes. Or tentacle OVA. Or how the walking gag Dress Break playing as a serious move to lower the enemy guard more than once in the rating game of S1. The wash the car ED is nothing, remember the cassino-style first ending, with Koneko shaking her loli butt into you eyes? Oh, and it's artsyle was never something truly unique, just about okay-ish to good, budget was indeed consistent. It's okay to be weirded out by the sudden changes, I admit the new palette color pattern is a little too bright for my tastes, but that's all about it. Oh, Asia and Koneko actually are hotter in this way, I dare to say. Rias and Akeno are indeed a downgrade (mostly their hair and eyes), but again, that's about it. You can drop and stay with H-doujins+fanarts of danbooru/pixiv, or then start to read the LN (mentalizing the TNK style in your mind) if the Pretty ColorsTM are definitely not any pretty for you anymore. |
FabrisMay 1, 2018 2:03 PM
| FGO NA Code: 482.072.599 (F2P thug life of savings...) Ben-to! best nonsensical action anime. Ever. |
| Nah its great there more detail and shading is way better. From Japanese forums they seem to think so as well |
| Dude, the change in character personality you are talking about is exactly from the changes by TNK - in the novel DxD has always been a DBZ-like anime with boobs powering up the main character instead of friendship. Boobs also are used as a plot device to turn any serious situation upside down on its head. The greatness of the novels comes from that paradox, and the hentai-ness was never the main point of DxD. It only became like that in the anime because especially in season 3 TNK made boobs the only point of the show and they even skipped some super epic fight scenes and meaningful moments. As for the sizes - as the novel progresses Issei often notes how the boobs of the girls around him are growing larger, especially Asya's, so aside from their personalities developing (after being saved by Issei, Koneko's personality changes a lot, it's called "character development", not "inconsistency"), so does their breast size. It's not something the studio came up on its own, it's following the source material. Too lazy to write as much as the OP, otherwise there are plenty more counterpoints to the OP's lame rant |
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| Mate, DxD has always sucked. |
╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭ |
| High School DxD is not so "Dark" as you watched it in previous seasons where TNK supervised it, DxD has a been always a "Lighthearted" in terms of Atmosphere and Other things in the Light Novel... You watched TNK's Version of DxD so that "Dark" leave an impression to you so as you read the Manga version of it, The "Dark atmosphere" doesn't leave you, It's just your mind are working like the "Placebo Effect" bro... If you think that the failure of Season can be fixed with the same studio who made that Season... You're wrong about that, why? because they butchered some main points of the original story line. Things that Season 3(BorN) Butchered: - Rias' Peerage VS Sona's Peerage (Rating Game) - Akeno's mini arc that should be more dramatic than that "Bed Scene" in season 3... meh... - Chichigami's seirei and Issei's conversation and The Otherworld Gods existence come to light. (During Loki Arc) - Issei and Vali VS Loki and Fenrir (But in anime... it turned out to Rias Group and Sona's Group VS Loki) - Hero Faction's Disturbances - Issei and Rias relationship By making Ophis lifting up the curse of Reynare on Issei and Doing some Curses of Loki on Issei and Rias in the last few episodes of BorN was a mistake that pissed off the author and the Japanese LN Fans so the changed in studio is a right decision to make or else... The sales on the Light Novel will dropped because the JP fans are getting pissed off, especially that Director in TNK refused to make some changes and wants to continue that BUTCHERED SEASON. So yeah... Ishibumi had enough and decides to change all the staff and made a contract to Passione. About the art style, Light Novel and The NEW Season are really identical in some points and Ishibumi is so happy about this... Image 1: Light Novel Volume 10 Image 2: High School DxD HerO As a LN reader... I'm happy they follow the latest art style in the LN finally! Yeah... I Love High School DxD!   |
INFERNAL_FURYMay 2, 2018 4:00 AM
Riverlia said: Despite refuting those homebrew prophecies of doom, it's not like I really hate TNK design, I just don't consider them some sacred building block for the franchise. The reason I defend Hero so far? It showed better promise of handling future content so far. People keep saying to return to TNK. But can TNK even animate the kind of fight required for volume 9-12 or beyond? There's a lot of large scale battle there, the amount of action is far higher than previous volume and many of them include several participants coordinating against a single strong target, not each person handling a corner of the field like before. TNK animation when it come to action in the last 3 seasons hadn't been stellar, to say the least. Season 1 had the nice transformation and ok-ish out of armor action for it time, but ultimately the exciting moments were extremely short and the rest was just so so. Season 2 is where they started to show sign of being unable to catch up, substituting the battle of Issei vs Vali with two bolts of light clashing and semi-still + cut away to simulate action white animate the armors moving the least possible, which was underwhelming even if still bearable. Born actions scenes had me face palming all the time and I literally gave up before the Rias fight. If volume 9-10 was done by TNK, what would we see? Light bolts clashing festival? Honestly, the quality of fight scenes are a lot better than most LNs period. Like literally the endgame battle in some animes are way below the spar between Issei and dude bro in episode 1. It times the new style takes some time getting used to but to be real I pretty much tuned out the whole cast aside from Rias. I'm only displeased by the limited nudity they've released of her so far. But perhaps I was spoiled by the fact I could reliability rub one out in shows like Valkyrie Drive. I don't think I did so with DXD until season 3. |
| I don't care about these small stuffs as long as plot is interesting. |
Dephree said: High quality pretentious bullshit. Also you said you aren't a LN reader so you are most definitely not the targeted audience which makes your opinions(!) irrelevant. And how do you know thier targeted audience? |
| You should read the LN. I wasn't a LN fan either until I gave it a try with dxd and I bet you that youll enjoy it more than any of the anime. As for this season... give it some more time. More exciting things are to come. |
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Riverlia said: Despite refuting those homebrew prophecies of doom, it's not like I really hate TNK design, I just don't consider them some sacred building block for the franchise. The reason I defend Hero so far? It showed better promise of handling future content so far. People keep saying to return to TNK. But can TNK even animate the kind of fight required for volume 9-12 or beyond? There's a lot of large scale battle there, the amount of action is far higher than previous volume and many of them include several participants coordinating against a single strong target, not each person handling a corner of the field like before. TNK animation when it come to action in the last 3 seasons hadn't been stellar, to say the least. Season 1 had the nice transformation and ok-ish out of armor action for it time, but ultimately the exciting moments were extremely short and the rest was just so so. Season 2 is where they started to show sign of being unable to catch up, substituting the battle of Issei vs Vali with two bolts of light clashing and semi-still + cut away to simulate action white animate the armors moving the least possible, which was underwhelming even if still bearable. Born actions scenes had me face palming all the time and I literally gave up before the Rias fight. If volume 9-10 was done by TNK, what would we see? Light bolts clashing festival? THANK YOU My god people, can't we all agree that TNK's animation was only sub-par at best? The fight scenes, artistically speaking looked nice, but in motion it's garbage compared to other shounen action series out there today. |
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enougher said: The characters I like aren't the same anymore bla bla bla Rias is not Rias (!). Xenovia is not Xenovia. Asia - what the hell?! Where is the mysterious, dark atmosphere? Where is the maturity in characters? The "unknown" in their eyes? Koneko is not sexy anymore. Actually, no one is sexy anymore. But hey, everyone is insanely busty instead, let’s celebrate! and my bases off this is because the character design changed despite their personalities are the same in terms of where the story takes place Odin honestly anime fans look at the most surface level of detail for things when it comes to characters and not the whole character. Its like saying the characters in Hayate aren't the same people because the art design changes from season to season Stop looking at the most surface level of detail and you'll see nothing has truly changed except art and music which is the least important |
DeknijffMay 3, 2018 5:59 AM
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| I swear, some people will just never be happy. Passione has done well to improve the series in a bunch of ways. The fights haven't been this artistically interesting since the very very best of TNK's season 1 and 2 stuff. And we haven't even gotten to any important action scenes yet. Passione gives us an extra prologue episode to try and limit the confusion, something that I'm sure they didn't HAVE to do. Passione adds in little details each episode to further address and fix s3's mistakes, and give context to future plot points without being overbearing about it. But what these ungrateful people do? Bitch about how the faces aren't as expressive artistically as the old character designs. Moan about how much they miss the studio that almost killed DxD as an anime with its poorly done third season. Wear nostalgia glasses and act like most of the action shots weren't devolving into still key frames with TNK at the helm. Worst of all, they backlash at Ishibumi and get mad he didn't sell out and watch his creation be ran into the ground by a studio who forgot that DxD was the only real thing it had going for them. It's even more sad when you realize that Japanese viewers (yanno, the people that matter the most out of viewership) also could see the writing on the wall, and were calling for changes to be made too. It's only these select few fans who refuse to accept that DxD has changed (for the better). The only thing that TNK did for this anime that a different studio couldn't do is add in extra fanservice, for better or for worse. But they'll have you think TNK had DxD on the brink of greatness. |
| So much discussion about one of the most braindead anime I've ever seen. I know that ecchi was never supposed to use logic but damn, to completely destroy whole plot(which could be even interesting when norse mythology came in) because of this stupid "boobs power-up" during fights? They should just do full-legal hentai instead so maybe we could see anime with actual plot in this season. |
KazeNoHimitsu said: The art style is pathetic. Legit, they look like zombies bra, ain’t no titty fest gonna salvage this now. Expressionless. The serious aspect, and the mysterious aspect to the series is up in flames. This is definitely not da wae, my bruddas. The art style for High School DxD Heroes is awful, it's some of the most pathetic doodling I've ever seen. It resembles something a high schooler in North America would draw in an attempt to recreate anime characters. Though, the camera work is better, with emphasis on actions. Despite that, I would rather Studio TNK return. My eyes have been vilified at this trash. Unbelievable! They just copied Railwars, which was another anime of their patronage! OMG RIAS IS THE SAME AS THE REDHEAD IN RAILWAYS! :( WHAT?? So people are telling me that Rias in the LN is the splitting image of that red head in Railways? Hell no, the light novel Rias is a masterpiece compared to what we were given on screen. Don’t try to pull the wool over the non LN readers’ eyes. This is a shit job. Everybody has a sharp chin, like a ghoul or a witch. So ugly, when the camera pans out, you can no longer see any definition, their faces become dough. Even when the camera is in their face, there’s a huge a huge lack of detail. They cut corners in every cel. If the author really wanted to preserve the integrity of the work, why not use Studio Deen? They know how to nail cute and interesting look at この素晴らしい異世界。 The Dragon of Dragons suddenly became an off-handed doodle, instead of being the epic 2.5D beast he was in TNK s3 E9. As soon as I saw the dragon, I knew dxd took a nose dive. Even the king of dragons Asazel' friend looked sad and nimble. I also noticed a huge lack of fan-service. Quite frankly, the TNK way to solve the incomplete juggernaut drive was more interesting than the titty bar tune, TNK gave the series a varied spectrum of emotions, I was tearing up with the way they portrayed the loss of Asia, and how Issei legitimately lost it. I was sympathizing with his character when he was locked in the juggernaut drive, and in turmoil, and his exchange with Vali was super cool. Now Vali has ギリギリ jeans that show the top of his crotch, and when they zoomed away from him it looked like he had a vagina. I know the girls complained about a lot of service, but they got a crotch shot! The men never got a crotch shot! Positives: Action angles were better, sometimes a little too far away. Not a single word you spoke is true and the preorders for the BD's are already selling lot hotcakes over in japan where the deciding audience is. So keep trying to pathetically act like a couch critic. It will do you so much good. Action angles were better? Oh you mean trashy stuff like this?  https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/highschooldxd/images/2/24/Rossweisse_decimating_the_enemies.gif/revision/latest?cb=20150517013546 this is for the larger version so you can see more up close just how utterly trash the animation was in previous seasons. TNK can't animate to save their life BIG red was just a static jpg sliding across the screen in BORN. You have no argument whatsoever. |
Darklight0303May 12, 2018 7:23 AM
KazeNoHimitsu said: Dude... that episode you're talking about is EPISODE 0 and that episode is just to CORRECT the Juggernaut Drive to the way it has been in the LIGHT NOVEL! I'm sure they only used minimal budget on that one because that scene is just a RETCON and that episode is not the BASIS of this SEASON... And... The Boob tune you are talking about?! That song used also in LN to calm Issei down and has more importance than what happened in the SEASON 3! Before you talk, make sure you research why these thing happened or ask those who read the LN to avoid making yourself an Idiot. *just saying*The art style is pathetic. Legit, they look like zombies bra, ain’t no titty fest gonna salvage this now. Expressionless. The serious aspect, and the mysterious aspect to the series is up in flames. This is definitely not da wae, my bruddas. The art style for High School DxD Heroes is awful, it's some of the most pathetic doodling I've ever seen. It resembles something a high schooler in North America would draw in an attempt to recreate anime characters. Though, the camera work is better, with emphasis on actions. Despite that, I would rather Studio TNK return. My eyes have been vilified at this trash. Unbelievable! They just copied Railwars, which was another anime of their patronage! OMG RIAS IS THE SAME AS THE REDHEAD IN RAILWAYS! :( WHAT?? So people are telling me that Rias in the LN is the splitting image of that red head in Railways? Hell no, the light novel Rias is a masterpiece compared to what we were given on screen. Don’t try to pull the wool over the non LN readers’ eyes. This is a shit job. Everybody has a sharp chin, like a ghoul or a witch. So ugly, when the camera pans out, you can no longer see any definition, their faces become dough. Even when the camera is in their face, there’s a huge a huge lack of detail. They cut corners in every cel. If the author really wanted to preserve the integrity of the work, why not use Studio Deen? They know how to nail cute and interesting look at この素晴らしい異世界。 The Dragon of Dragons suddenly became an off-handed doodle, instead of being the epic 2.5D beast he was in TNK s3 E9. As soon as I saw the dragon, I knew dxd took a nose dive. Even the king of dragons Asazel' friend looked sad and nimble. I also noticed a huge lack of fan-service. Quite frankly, the TNK way to solve the incomplete juggernaut drive was more interesting than the titty bar tune, TNK gave the series a varied spectrum of emotions, I was tearing up with the way they portrayed the loss of Asia, and how Issei legitimately lost it. I was sympathizing with his character when he was locked in the juggernaut drive, and in turmoil, and his exchange with Vali was super cool. Now Vali has ギリギリ jeans that show the top of his crotch, and when they zoomed away from him it looked like he had a vagina. I know the girls complained about a lot of service, but they got a crotch shot! The men never got a crotch shot! Positives: Action angles were better, sometimes a little too far away. About Vali's Design... LN and HerO's Comparison.   |
INFERNAL_FURYMay 13, 2018 4:05 AM
INFERNAL_FURY said: KazeNoHimitsu said: Dude... that episode you're talking about is EPISODE 0 and that episode is just to CORRECT the Juggernaut Drive to the way it has been in the LIGHT NOVEL! I'm sure they only used minimal budget on that one because that scene is just a RETCON and that episode is not the BASIS of this SEASON... And... The Boob tune you are talking about?! That song used also in LN to calm Issei down and has more importance than what happened in the SEASON 3! Before you talk, make sure you research why these thing happened or ask those who read the LN to avoid making yourself an Idiot. *just saying*The art style is pathetic. Legit, they look like zombies bra, ain’t no titty fest gonna salvage this now. Expressionless. The serious aspect, and the mysterious aspect to the series is up in flames. This is definitely not da wae, my bruddas. The art style for High School DxD Heroes is awful, it's some of the most pathetic doodling I've ever seen. It resembles something a high schooler in North America would draw in an attempt to recreate anime characters. Though, the camera work is better, with emphasis on actions. Despite that, I would rather Studio TNK return. My eyes have been vilified at this trash. Unbelievable! They just copied Railwars, which was another anime of their patronage! OMG RIAS IS THE SAME AS THE REDHEAD IN RAILWAYS! :( WHAT?? So people are telling me that Rias in the LN is the splitting image of that red head in Railways? Hell no, the light novel Rias is a masterpiece compared to what we were given on screen. Don’t try to pull the wool over the non LN readers’ eyes. This is a shit job. Everybody has a sharp chin, like a ghoul or a witch. So ugly, when the camera pans out, you can no longer see any definition, their faces become dough. Even when the camera is in their face, there’s a huge a huge lack of detail. They cut corners in every cel. If the author really wanted to preserve the integrity of the work, why not use Studio Deen? They know how to nail cute and interesting look at この素晴らしい異世界。 The Dragon of Dragons suddenly became an off-handed doodle, instead of being the epic 2.5D beast he was in TNK s3 E9. As soon as I saw the dragon, I knew dxd took a nose dive. Even the king of dragons Asazel' friend looked sad and nimble. I also noticed a huge lack of fan-service. Quite frankly, the TNK way to solve the incomplete juggernaut drive was more interesting than the titty bar tune, TNK gave the series a varied spectrum of emotions, I was tearing up with the way they portrayed the loss of Asia, and how Issei legitimately lost it. I was sympathizing with his character when he was locked in the juggernaut drive, and in turmoil, and his exchange with Vali was super cool. Now Vali has ギリギリ jeans that show the top of his crotch, and when they zoomed away from him it looked like he had a vagina. I know the girls complained about a lot of service, but they got a crotch shot! The men never got a crotch shot! Positives: Action angles were better, sometimes a little too far away. About Vali's Design... LN and HerO's Comparison. Wow a perfect match. Who would have guessed. Oh right those who wanted this change |
| >I need to underline that I am not a LN fan as I have not read it yet /thread. _____ Seriously, this season is the best it could have happened to DxD, Passione really put the passion in this, they really made an effort to make it as close as they could to the source material, not being over the top edgy or adding nudity every second. DxD was always like this: A Shonen-esque novel with a good dose of Fanservice, and some great arcs with good stories, but mostly focused on being a light hearted novel. The author is a big fan of Super Sentai, Tokusatsu and Gundam..and this season really reflects it, all those missing touches DxD was lacking for seasons. A world where all mythologies were true and they can connect almost seamlessly. Issei being not just a pervert, but an Heroic Pervert. This is the DxD fans deserved from the beginning, and it's more watchable than TNK's seasons. I still think TNK did a good Job on season 1, it made me read the novels.. but Season 2 greatly diluted Kiba's background and down tiered the final fights. Season 3 made the Loki fight a Joke and ruined Koneko's arc...the ending was an abomination. Passione is doing a great job with this new season. I hope anime-only fans can finally learn how funny DxD was supposed to be. I don't want to sound like an elitist, but really, read the novels, they're not a master piece in storyline...but they're really funny most of the time, while the story can become pretty intense for entire sections. DxD was never supposed to be "Mature" : laugh at the "infinite", and I grieve at the "dream". |
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