| I just found a series of articles online that have me worried: Normalizating Anime Attacking the Fanbase Political Pressure Corporate Influence Censorship Basically, the author sees the same worrying warning signs for our industry that were there just before gamergate started, and then again before the comic book fiasco we now see. Normally I'd have dismissed something like this but I myself noticed way more political threads on forums recently and it is true the mainstream media have been talking about our hobby way too much and taking shots at us too. I just hope this is a phase and doesn't actually get worse. I just got back into anime, I really don't need this shit. |
| I don't get it, what is the thing you fear exactly? |
Gator said: I don't get it, what is the thing you fear exactly? Mass SJW campaign against anime and its fans. Its what happened with video games. Gamergate was real ugly and now games are politicized and many get censored. |
| Unless this is being done by the Japanese media, the SJWs in these western news websites can bark all they want, they won't be able to have any effect. The anime industry doesn't even cater to the western audience, let alone listen to its media. |
| Japan will not give two shits about Kim Kardashian getting her hair inspiration from Zero Two, or Michael B. Jordan watching Naruto. They also will not care about what the West has to say about anime, unless something within the industry or Japanese culture, in general, starts to brew. Hell, I'd go as far as to say one of the reasons people watch anime is because it doesn't bend over to western sociopolitical influence as easily as other mediums have (western film, literature, theater, etc) and that contributes to people being attracted to it. |
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| Wtf is Gamergate and what is this supposed to be ? |
| What is the problem with the mainstream talking about Anime ? And taking shots at us if people criticize anime u don't need to feel personally attacked |
MartinAcademia said: Gator said: I don't get it, what is the thing you fear exactly? Mass SJW campaign against anime and its fans. Its what happened with video games. Gamergate was real ugly and now games are politicized and many get censored. I see. Well tbh I don't think something like that will happen. Japan doesn't really care a lot about the opinion of the rest of the world when it comes to anime. I remember a letter from some Japanese minister to some feminist complaining about loli in media basically saying "Care about your own shit". So I think anime is still too specific to be really in danger of getting the same treatment as video games since its market interests are limited to Japan. |
xShinigami3125 said: Wtf is Gamergate and what is this supposed to be ? When SJWs Started Targting VideoGames Causing Stupid Mass Censorship. AnimeGate would be the Same thing but with Anime |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Am low-key surprised this wasn't in the list https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2018/04/anime-fan-warns-community-potential-animegate-anime-goes-mainstream/55720/ Because like Ive been having these real weird coincidence happening and @Manaban linked me that this morning and now this thread happens |
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Afloo said: xShinigami3125 said: Wtf is Gamergate and what is this supposed to be ? When SJWs Started Targting VideoGames Causing Stupid Mass Censorship. AnimeGate would be the Same thing but with Anime I thought that conspiracy was about "Ethics" in video game journalism. Why would actual social right activists target video games? |
Electik said: and i rly don't see the problem with anime getting normalised. ppl are always complaining abt being made fun of for liking anime, nows your chance for it to be more accepted. I don't want to be normalized, I'm happy being an individual thank you. |
| I don't understand, are you afraid of anime getting criticism if it becomes mainstream? Are you afraid of people having opinions? |
MartinAcademia said: Electik said: and i rly don't see the problem with anime getting normalised. ppl are always complaining abt being made fun of for liking anime, nows your chance for it to be more accepted. I don't want to be normalized, I'm happy being an individual thank you. It's not you being normalized it's just ur hoppy I hope you as a person are more then an anime fan. |
jal90 said: I don't understand, are you afraid of anime getting criticism if it becomes mainstream? Are you afraid of people having opinions? As I said before, what worries me is the potential for people who like to censor stuff to target anime. They can do a lot of damage to the western industry if they decide to. And Japan isn't as impervious as people think. American companies are getting involved in Japan now (Netflix, Amazon) and later maybe even more. American companies do listen to SJWs. I don't care about people having opinions but SJWs tend to force their opinions on others. Look what happened to games and Marvel comic books. |
MartinAcademia said: jal90 said: I don't understand, are you afraid of anime getting criticism if it becomes mainstream? Are you afraid of people having opinions? As I said before, what worries me is the potential for people who like to censor stuff to target anime. They can do a lot of damage to the western industry if they decide to. And Japan isn't as impervious as people think. American companies are getting involved in Japan now (Netflix, Amazon) and later maybe even more. American companies do listen to SJWs. I don't care about people having opinions but SJWs tend to force their opinions on others. Look what happened to games and Marvel comic books. Except controversies and censorship exist already in the medium, with no need for your so called "SJWs". People being vocal about hating some trend in anime may inspire the industry to change and try to appeal to their interests, but that doesn't qualify as censorship. |
| No. Anime Feminist already tried to start this up, but no one took the bait. |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
MartinAcademia said: jal90 said: I don't understand, are you afraid of anime getting criticism if it becomes mainstream? Are you afraid of people having opinions? As I said before, what worries me is the potential for people who like to censor stuff to target anime. They can do a lot of damage to the western industry if they decide to. And Japan isn't as impervious as people think. American companies are getting involved in Japan now (Netflix, Amazon) and later maybe even more. American companies do listen to SJWs. I don't care about people having opinions but SJWs tend to force their opinions on others. Look what happened to games and Marvel comic books. When people dont like something and then voice their disapproval that's not censorship it's Called free speech and when companies change according to the popular opinion that's not them listening to the SJW it's called a business decision because they produce whatever sells. |
CatSoul said: No. Anime Feminist already tried to start this up, but no one took the bait. Anime Feminists ? Do you even knew what feminism is ? These days the word is just thrown around everywhere. |
xShinigami3125 said: I think the concern lies in that the same as with Marvel comics will happen When people don't like something and then voice their disapproval that's not censorship it's Called free speech and when companies change according to the popular opinion that's not them listening to the SJW it's called a business decision because they produce whatever sells. where the business caves into demands and then fans stop buying because it doesn't appeal to them and those that demanded change don't buy it because they were never fans to begin with |
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xShinigami3125 said: When people dont like something and then voice their disapproval that's not censorship it's Called free speech and when companies change according to the popular opinion that's not them listening to the SJW it's called a business decision because they produce whatever sells. A massive media and corporate effort to forcefully change an industry against the wishes of its fanbase is censorship. That's what they did with video games. Marvel sales of comics have been falling for a while thanks to their SWJ "criticism" as you say, they still keep at it, even though they are being told by the people who actually buy their comics they don't want to buy their crap. Obviously this is about more than "criticism" and "business". |
Deknijff said: Even if that happens they would just change back because again companies just produce whatever sells well so I don't see the reason why some people are so afraid of thatxShinigami3125 said: I think the concern lies in that the same as with Marvel comics will happen When people don't like something and then voice their disapproval that's not censorship it's Called free speech and when companies change according to the popular opinion that's not them listening to the SJW it's called a business decision because they produce whatever sells. where the business caves into demands and then fans stop buying because it doesn't appeal to them and those that demanded change don't buy it because they were never fans to begin with |
xShinigami3125 said: I mean yeah they could change back but those that felt betrayed won't comeback due to lack of trust in the company Deknijff said: Even if that happens they would just change back because again companies just produce whatever sells well so I don't see the reason why some people are so afraid of thatI think the concern lies in that the same as with Marvel comics will happen where the business caves into demands and then fans stop buying because it doesn't appeal to them and those that demanded change don't buy it because they were never fans to begin with |
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MartinAcademia said: Okey first of all please google the word censorship and are you really one of these people who think all mass media is a leftist conspiracy? Cuz if that's the case talking to u is just pointless.xShinigami3125 said: When people dont like something and then voice their disapproval that's not censorship it's Called free speech and when companies change according to the popular opinion that's not them listening to the SJW it's called a business decision because they produce whatever sells. A massive media and corporate effort to forcefully change an industry against the wishes of its fanbase is censorship. That's what they did with video games. Marvel sales of comics have been falling for a while thanks to their SWJ "criticism" as you say, they still keep at it, even though they are being told by the people who actually buy their comics they don't want to buy their crap. Obviously this is about more than "criticism" and "business". |
xShinigami3125 said: CatSoul said: No. Anime Feminist already tried to start this up, but no one took the bait. Anime Feminists ? Do you even knew what feminism is ? These days the word is just thrown around everywhere. I'm referring to the blog entitled Anime Feminist. |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
Deknijff said: xShinigami3125 said: I mean yeah they could change back but those that felt betrayed won't comeback due to lack of trust in the company Even if that happens they would just change back because again companies just produce whatever sells well so I don't see the reason why some people are so afraid of that If they don't come back cuz the company hurt their feelings then that's their issue and they have no right to cry about people changing the product that company sells |
xShinigami3125 said: I agree its their issue but they've been faithful costumers for several years so they have every right to voice their complaint though If they don't come back cuz the company hurt their feelings then that's their issue and they have no right to cry about people changing the product that company sells |
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Deknijff said: xShinigami3125 said: I agree its their issue but they've been faithful costumers for several years so they have every right to voice their complaint though If they don't come back cuz the company hurt their feelings then that's their issue and they have no right to cry about people changing the product that company sells So do the so-called "SJWs" as consumers of the anime, so... is there a point in this debate? |
Deknijff said: They do but so do the "Evil leftists SJW" or whatever the current fans of a medium claiming ownership of it is just childish and shows a serious case of reality loss.xShinigami3125 said: I agree its their issue but they've been faithful costumers for several years so they have every right to voice their complaint though If they don't come back cuz the company hurt their feelings then that's their issue and they have no right to cry about people changing the product that company sells |
| I've been anticipating this for a while, actually. Japanese anime is different from Japanese video games but still, there are similarities, such as how both have to get imported to non-Japanese regions. The distributors need only listen to the SJWs and suddenly, you get anti-gamergate messages in your dub (this has actually happened but I forget which show it was), "selective" translating and localizing in order to remove "offensive" and "problematic" material (which has already happened in games: https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2018/04/danmachi-memoria-freese-censored-english-gamers-localizers-say-not-censorship/55636/), certain "offensive" anime don't get licensed and localized, and Japan starts flat-out refusing to send certain shows overseas (such as that one Dead or Alive game). “Hi! Official DanMemo Community Team here. The “touching” feature was removed from the English version of the game, yes. Not as a matter of censorship or depriving non-Japanese audiences of anything, but due to what is appropriate and not appropriate for English audiences. Hope that answers your question!” --quote from DanMemo Team justifying censorship while denying it's censorship This is some amazing doublespeak right there. I mean, taking something out because it is deemed "inappropriate for an audience" falls under the definition of censorship. Yup. And Crunchyroll is involved with that. And with the pressure on (and virus-happy state of) many torrent and streaming pirate fansub sites, getting your anime uncut and untampered-with is going to become more and more difficult. |
jal90 said: As I said above the worries of fans are that an outside source will interfere with the market and not actual fans who do buy the product Deknijff said: So do the so-called "SJWs" as consumers of the anime, so... is there a point in this debate?I agree its their issue but they've been faithful costumers for several years so they have every right to voice their complaint though xShinigami3125 said: In most cases those people aren't fans and won't be fans even after the change so they actually have very small rights of complaint unlike real fans They do but so do the "Evil leftists SJW" or whatever the current fans of a medium claiming ownership of it is just childish and shows a serious case of reality loss |
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| [quote=Deknijff message=54900767] jal90 said: As I said above the worries of fans are that an outside source will interfere with the market and not actual fans who do buy the product [quote=xShinigami3125 message=54900716]Deknijff said: So do the so-called "SJWs" as consumers of the anime, so... is there a point in this debate?I agree its their issue but they've been faithful costumers for several years so they have every right to voice their complaint though Deknijff said: xShinigami3125 said: In most cases those people aren't fans and won't be fans even after the change so they actually have very small rights of complaint unlike real fans They do but so do the "Evil leftists SJW" or whatever the current fans of a medium claiming ownership of it is just childish and shows a serious case of reality loss Even if you have only seen a single anime episode you have the right to complain about the industry/medium and who determines what a real fan is ? |
xShinigami3125 said: Sure complain but if they're a beginner their complaint holds very little value honestly due to lack of experienceEven if you have only seen a single anime episode you have the right to complain about the industry/medium and who determines what a real fan is ? To determine a true fan is hard to say honestly I would need to have someone in front of me to see and talk to them |
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| ALL ANIME WILL BE BANNED SOON! MUHAHAHA, cry in agony filthy weebs. Deknijff said: So technically no one buys Marvel comics anymore yet it made more money in comics than any other American comic book company in January of this year. https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/02/09/dc-comics-marvel-money-jan-18-share/I think the concern lies in that the same as with Marvel comics will happen where the business caves into demands and then fans stop buying because it doesn't appeal to them and those that demanded change don't buy it because they were never fans to begin with |
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DrGeroCreation said: Ah so did they finally change their business approach which I have been hearing about?Deknijff said: So technically no one buys Marvel comics anymore yet it made more money in comics than any other American comic book company in January of this year. https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/02/09/dc-comics-marvel-money-jan-18-share/I think the concern lies in that the same as with Marvel comics will happen where the business caves into demands and then fans stop buying because it doesn't appeal to them and those that demanded change don't buy it because they were never fans to begin with |
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Deknijff said: My question was who decides who is a real anime fan and just because someone has Seen lese anime then others doesnt invalidate their opinion/criticism of the medium/industry it all depends on their argument.xShinigami3125 said: Sure complain but if they're a beginner their complaint holds very little value honestly due to lack of experienceEven if you have only seen a single anime episode you have the right to complain about the industry/medium and who determines what a real fan is ? To determine a true fan is hard to say honestly I would need to have someone in front of me to see and talk to them |
| I think it's a waste of time lol. Unlike other media this is 100% dependant on the Japanese and the Japanese don't give two shits about the opinions of some crazy westeners; at best they will issue a pr statement and then carry on in making loli porn once the crazy ideologues start virtue signaling about senpai noticing them. |
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| Stop pouring money into subversive western streaming monopolies and they will cease to have any power over Japan. Let the SJWs screech under their safe blankets all they want. |
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DrGeroCreation said: ALL ANIME WILL BE BANNED SOON! MUHAHAHA, cry in agony filthy weebs. Deknijff said: So technically no one buys Marvel comics anymore yet it made more money in comics than any other American comic book company in January of this year. https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/02/09/dc-comics-marvel-money-jan-18-share/I think the concern lies in that the same as with Marvel comics will happen where the business caves into demands and then fans stop buying because it doesn't appeal to them and those that demanded change don't buy it because they were never fans to begin with Go watch D&C's videos, Marvel is bleeding outside of their movies and merch. |
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xShinigami3125 said: I didn't say it invalidates their opinion Deknijff said: My question was who decides who is a real anime fan and just because someone has Seen else anime then others doesn't invalidate their opinion/criticism of the medium/industry it all depends on their argument.Sure complain but if they're a beginner their complaint holds very little value honestly due to lack of experience To determine a true fan is hard to say honestly I would need to have someone in front of me to see and talk to them if they're right they're right But when it comes to talking about an entire medium and what it offers experience and knowledge is needed so that we don't have a bunch of people who know next to nothing spouting nonsense |
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Deknijff said: No I don't believe they made any change in business approach.Ah so did they finally change their business approach which I have been hearing about? Yet they are making more money in comics than other companies. Show me stats from this year of the bleeding. Only numbers I'm interested in, not videos. |
DrGeroCreationApr 10, 2018 7:44 AM
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DrGeroCreation said: hmmmm Deknijff said: No I don't believe they made any change in business approach.Ah so did they finally change their business approach which I have been hearing about? thats interesting Perhaps it could be the movie fans that are now starting to buy the comics more and more I can picture that at least being the case |
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MartinAcademia said: Gator said: I don't get it, what is the thing you fear exactly? Mass SJW campaign against anime and its fans. Its what happened with video games. Gamergate was real ugly and now games are politicized and many get censored. Well as far as I know Japanese games are still as violent against women as ever (I only play fan-TLed/RAW games) |
| I don't exactly like the concept that it's immediately being made into an SJW versus anti-SJW type thing where people are making it an issue of target audiences and consumer capitalism when the main concern here is stuff along the lines of the Danmachi thing where there's controversy because it isn't being deemed to be appropriate for the audience. That is censorship. And that and the use of politicization tactics making references that are prominent in the west and not in Japan like in Prison School's dub and that kind of tampering in order to send messages against opposing ideologies isn't exactly something I'd deem kosher, either, not giving a fuck what the stance is for. Tampering with the original content only for the sake of pushing a political agenda and nothing else is just not cool. Also, Japan will kowtow to other countries in the face of controversy. They did so with the manga that drew a dick on Ghenghis Khan's forehead recently, they're not this impenetrable fortress that is going to never listen to outside opinion on their content and that notion of invincibility that seems to come along with it should be discarded as nothing more than mere fantasy, regardless of where you stand on this topic. They will listen to the outside, they will listen to the outside media. Like, it's not just me postulating here, it happens. It isn't as black as white as SJW versus anti-SJW or left versus right, they'll both be for and against this sort of thing whenever it suits their narrative the best and there's nothing that can be done about those people who let their political ideologies permeate all aspects of their existence. It's a matter of the kind of tampering that's already started to come into play being a thing - consumer capitalism and market trends are natural and can't be helped, but what we've gotten so far is political outcries, agenda pushing, and legitimate censorship rather than just changes in market trends, and that's absolutely no good and is a definite cause for concern, no matter how much some people in this thread seem like they'd like to handwave it off. |
ManabanApr 10, 2018 8:01 AM
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Khalan said: MartinAcademia said: Mass SJW campaign against anime and its fans. Its what happened with video games. Gamergate was real ugly and now games are politicized and many get censored. Well as far as I know Japanese games are still as violent against women as ever (I only play fan-TLed/RAW games) Only in the VN space (different rating system), however it's CERO's fault for the censoring of violence in Japanese conole games and if you want to go even further the parent groups in the mid 90's, ever wonder why Mortal Kombat pre-CERO was never popular in Japan (the later ones never released there due to CERO, but aren't banned whatsoever as you can import them with no issue). |
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Deknijff said: so the fear of Outsiders changing the medium is unjustified as long as everyone does 10 seconds of ResearchxShinigami3125 said: I didn't say it invalidates their opinion My question was who decides who is a real anime fan and just because someone has Seen else anime then others doesn't invalidate their opinion/criticism of the medium/industry it all depends on their argument. if they're right they're right But when it comes to talking about an entire medium and what it offers experience and knowledge is needed so that we don't have a bunch of people who know next to nothing spouting nonsense |
| Well, if they listen to those demands; Most fans would stop buying their work and those who demanded a change won't buy it either... In other words, the ones who don't intend to support the company, don't deserve the right to complain about anything... |
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