greymood said: @S-quare22 @Clebardman It probably boils down to Ikuhara's repetition not being to your liking, as well as Urasawa's not being to his. I personally love the ZUM sequence and Mikage's seminar footage Utena's ending confusing you isn't really the show's fault. The ending itself wraps everything perfectly without letting loose ends The dialogue in the last third becomes so ambiguous that you have people analysing what it meant untill now. It may be that confused you, but again it's not the show's fault... Characters either have their own arc or are an essentital part of the duelist's struggles. Shiori and Rukka for Juri, Kozue for Miki, and so it goes. You have some "extra" characters but they have their own importance, especially in the black rose arc, and are tied to the duelists; directly or not. The most "extra" case could be Tatsuya since he's just tied to Wakaba, but the rest - even Nanami's slaves - have their impact on the main cast I also want to add that Nanami fillers are absolutely amazing that doesn't answer me so my points still stand. ikuhara's repitition has no limit while urasawa repeats few scenes (like 4 or 3 scenes if not less). the problem is actually here because monster's ending was more satisfying than anyone would expect. That's why naoki released a novel in which he explained monster's ending and I think you've already seen that video on youtube which summed up the content of that novel. and I also can't understand this point..I mean..it's not utena's fault? I can't understand. are you seeking excuses to justify that it fails as a show? the characters are brilliantly written but ikuhara focused on them too much that he forgot explaining some details and aspects leading to a huge disappointment. |
  "elles sont bien noires les pensées des nuits blanches"  |
| @S-quare22 I didn't talk about Monster's repetition as something that bothers me. I just said that Ikuhara repeting the structure is something that he loves to do and i actually love to watch. Not that you should too and I also can't understand this point..I mean..it's not utena's fault? I can't understand. are you seeking excuses to justify that it fails as a show? the characters are brilliantly written but ikuhara focused on them too much that he forgot explaining some details and aspects. Well, no? I dunno why you think that it's the show's fault when you can't understand the meaning of things Anyway, everything you need to known is there. The duelists arcs are all finished perfectly in the last third, and Utena's and Anthy's final resolution is also there. It took me one rewatch to get tho so i don't really blame you |
greymood said: @S-quare22 I didn't talk about Monster's repetition as something that bothers me. I just said that Ikuhara repeting the structure is something that he loves to do and i actually love to watch. Not that you should too and I also can't understand this point..I mean..it's not utena's fault? I can't understand. are you seeking excuses to justify that it fails as a show? the characters are brilliantly written but ikuhara focused on them too much that he forgot explaining some details and aspects. Well, no? I dunno why you think that it's the show's fault when you can't understand the meaning of things Anyway, everything you need to known is there. The duelists arcs are all finished perfectly in the last third, and Utena's and Anthy's final resolution is also there. It took me one rewatch to get tho so i don't really blame you oh, Ok. so you need to re-watch his works in order to understand him? and what's so good about utena though? |
"elles sont bien noires les pensées des nuits blanches" |
| @S-quare22 @greymood I'm actually a huge fan of repetition in art and listen to drone for hours np while my friends complain (^% Utena is indeed extremely repetitive, and I have no problem with that. It can't be a cheap narrative gimmick since it's actually outside of the narration. The stairway scene is like a jingle for the duel of the ep, wich is supposed to be the climax. I get badass music, time to roll another joint, and I can see Utena climbing to the climax/resolution of that ep's plot. The elevators in the Black Rose arc? No repetition here besides the basic setting of "character goes down" (the opposite of Utena going up). Their reasons are all different. Boring characters? Where, and how are they left aside like lots of side stories/characters in Monster? Even Ruka competes in the category "best character with a couple eps of screentime" alongside Kaworu (^% I was too busy crying or headbanging during most duels to pay attention to the action tbh. Dem Black Rose arc duels are the best thing in anime and my heart will never heal from THAT fight (^': Meanwhile, Urasawa consistently pepper his narration with the same 3-4 gimmicks I just can't stand and avoids showing the interesting stuff. Berserk showed me a true human villain; Monster told me there was one in the story (by having half its cast have seizures every ep) |
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| eh currently 50 chapters into monster and its good. not that good but i like it so far |
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Clebardman said: @S-quare22 @greymood I'm actually a huge fan of repetition in art and listen to drone for hours np while my friends complain (^% Utena is indeed extremely repetitive, and I have no problem with that. It can't be a cheap narrative gimmick since it's actually outside of the narration. The stairway scene is like a jingle for the duel of the ep, wich is supposed to be the climax. I get badass music, time to roll another joint, and I can see Utena climbing to the climax/resolution of that ep's plot. The elevators in the Black Rose arc? No repetition here besides the basic setting of "character goes down" (the opposite of Utena going up). Their reasons are all different. Boring characters? Where, and how are they left aside like lots of side stories/characters in Monster? Even Ruka competes in the category "best character with a couple eps of screentime" alongside Kaworu (^% I was too busy crying or headbanging during most duels to pay attention to the action tbh. Dem Black Rose arc duels are the best thing in anime and my heart will never heal from THAT fight (^': Meanwhile, Urasawa consistently pepper his narration with the same 3-4 gimmicks I just can't stand and avoids showing the interesting stuff. Berserk showed me a true human villain; Monster told me there was one in the story (by having half its cast have seizures every ep) wait..so you liked the fight but you didn't pay attention to the action? aren't fight supposed to be action scenes? btw, there was an exposition for naoki urasawa in paris. https://www.20minutes.fr/culture/2208171-20180125-naoki-urasawa-angouleme-manga-peut-changer-monde-tezuka-change-mien http://www.sudouest.fr/2018/01/26/bd-a-angouleme-les-fans-se-pressent-pour-naoki-urasawa-4146210-813.php I really want to know if you've been there to see your beloved author (^: |
"elles sont bien noires les pensées des nuits blanches" |
| @S-quare22 I'm so lazy I didn't even see the Kazuo Kamimura exposition (つ﹏<)･ﾟ｡ |
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| @S-quare22 so you need to re-watch his works in order to understand him? Can't really speak for everyone, but the rewatch was very much needed for me to really get the show. When you known that Anthy is manipulating everyone the first part of the show seems really different, and you can literaly watch her becoming guilty about betraying Utena (and also angry that Utena is betraying her). Or how she really see through Utena's hypocrisy, and basically all the others duelists. The last third is something really meant to watch and think about. I like to write about those episodes since it helps me getting my ideas straight While when i watched for the first time all i could think was "Wait what is happening? Why are they saying this?" and what's so good about utena though? You mean why i like? It's just a really beautiful story about moving on from your past and unhealthy ilusions and finding your true self. Anthy and Utena's relationship is ultimately about accepting each other flaws and be willing to help the other even when you're stabbed. Not to say that you have all the other five duelists with each of them having their own reason to be instead of existing just for the sake of helping the protagonist or moving the plot forward. They're actual stories of their own + the duel musics are really amazing and so it is the aesthetic @Clebardman I was talking about the strucutre: Character enter the elevator, music starts, "I see, your only option is to revolutionize the world" And Wakaba's duel is really fucking fantastic |
llorandoApr 8, 2018 11:45 AM
tragedydesu said: dropped monster after 12ep dropped century boys after 15 chapter i don't like his works but "elitists" do I've never seen his works, but its very asinine to generalize people who love his works as elitists. Only thatanimesnob is an elitist among them. This was meant to be an edited response. |
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| Urasawa is a genius and one of the very best manga authors to ever live. But who cares about my opinion? More relevantly, Haruki Murakami, one of the greatest writers of all time, has called Urasawa a national treasure. When someone as superlative as Murakami praises you to such an extent, that's what matters. |
Pullman said: He's a fantastic author/mangaka. I loved Monster, loved 20th Century Boys even more, Pluto was great as well, even Yawara was fun, albeit kinda slow and repetitive and carried by the side characters. Can't wait to finally get to Billy Bat once the finally volume is available. He's not my favorite Mangaka tho. Between him, Tezuka, Asano and Taniguchi I honestly have a hard time picking a favorite, but if I had to it'd probably be Taniguchi. Summit of the Gods is just my favorite manga of all time, and he did so much more than that. Just curious, how did you manage to read Summit of the Gods? |
CasualViewer2001 said: Pullman said: He's a fantastic author/mangaka. I loved Monster, loved 20th Century Boys even more, Pluto was great as well, even Yawara was fun, albeit kinda slow and repetitive and carried by the side characters. Can't wait to finally get to Billy Bat once the finally volume is available. He's not my favorite Mangaka tho. Between him, Tezuka, Asano and Taniguchi I honestly have a hard time picking a favorite, but if I had to it'd probably be Taniguchi. Summit of the Gods is just my favorite manga of all time, and he did so much more than that. Just curious, how did you manage to read Summit of the Gods? We have all the Taniguchi manga licensed in german here over the last X years so I got to buy the actual volumes for my collection. But I think there should also be an english licensed version be going around? IIRC someone I knew said they found it in their library or something like that. But it seems to be harder to find than the german version for sure. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Pullman said: We have all the Taniguchi manga licensed in german here over the last X years so I got to buy the actual volumes for my collection. But I think there should also be an english licensed version be going around? IIRC someone I knew said they found it in their library or something like that. But it seems to be harder to find than the german version for sure. Oh you're German. That makes a lot more sense. I only know English and when it comes to the English translations, there's only 4 chapters of it available to read unless you manage to get your hands on a physical copy. Ah well. |
CasualViewer2001 said: Pullman said: We have all the Taniguchi manga licensed in german here over the last X years so I got to buy the actual volumes for my collection. But I think there should also be an english licensed version be going around? IIRC someone I knew said they found it in their library or something like that. But it seems to be harder to find than the german version for sure. Oh you're German. That makes a lot more sense. I only know English and when it comes to the English translations, there's only 4 chapters of it available to read unless you manage to get your hands on a physical copy. Ah well. I'm austrian :P But yeah, we speak german ^^. And I generally almost only read manga where I have the physical copies so I never even tried to find it on the internet but I heard from other people it's not really available. The english/international community sleeps on Taniguchi it seems. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
tragedydesu said: dropped monster after 12ep dropped century boys after 15 chapter i don't like his works but "elitists" do Never read any Urawasama works but I agree with this. Every elitist I know has either the Monster anime or one of the mangas on their favourites and they all come off so snobby and entitled |
Pullman said: losmena said: Billy bat is a masterpiece, naoki used symbolism for the first time in this manga Bily bat is really thought provoking and insane, I highly recommend it, fellow cowboy bebop fan. yeah as I said, I already got 18 volumes on my shelf, the 19th came out in January and the final one is coming out in Mai so I'll most likely get to it during the summer. tfw I only got volumes 19 & 20 two weeks ago. Only ~2 years later than I had planned :> But I am currently reading Billy Bat and it's pretty solid so far, although not quite on the level of 20th century boys imo. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
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