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lack of LGBTQ Anime fans and animes :/ RANT WARNING

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Poll: shoujo Ai/Yuri or Shounen Ai/Yaoi ? Gender Bender ? FAvorite?


Mar 29, 2018 8:52 AM

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@SupremeEdgelord BL ultimately boils down to a fetish rather than actual protrait of gay romance. Yuri is also utterly unrealistic being either smutty porn or plain delusional with the "purity" thing. There're exceptions but that's what they're, exceptions

@clebardman you'll scare MAL users if you keep talking about gay and trans people existing in their medium
 
Mar 29, 2018 8:52 AM

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Instead of anime go watch Orphan Black OP.
 
Mar 29, 2018 9:23 AM

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Yes hello, LGBT anime fan here.

I'll be completely honest with you.. I've always though there was a pretty large number of lgbt people into anime. Rather than thinking there was a lack, it wasn't long after getting into anime myself that I went "damn, there are an awful lot of lgbt people in the community." Of course we don't out number straight people, but that's a given. We are the minority after all. Which is also why there aren't as many lgbt romance series as there are non lgbt ones. It kinda goes without saying tbh.

I, being the yuri fangirl I am, of course would be so totally down with getting more yuri/shoujoai anime each season. But all things considered, yuri has been doing pretty well lately. What with the release of NTR and Citrus (I mean... the former anime is shit and I hate it, but it's yuri all the same.) And various shoujoai heavy anime have been put out in the last year too. Miss Kobayashi, Kuzu no Honkai, Konohana Kitan, and just about every magical girl anime to recently come out. To name a few. Hell, we're getting two new anime this next season that are strictly yuri focused (Tachibanakan Triangle and Asagao to Kase-san.) and I'm sure plenty more that have shoujoai undertones. I'm expecting the new Cutie Honey thing to be pretty gay.

I'll admit, I haven't noticed yoai getting quite the same treatment. But I chalk that up to my personally not caring as much about yaoi as I do yuri. Surely, there have been at least a few yoai/shounenai things to come out recently. And even if there hasn't been, absolutely there isn't any shortage of lgbt anime fans wanting it.
 
Mar 29, 2018 9:26 AM
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AdolChri said:
Stripes said:
I agree. And even when things are more on the ambigious side. See something like Flip Flappers. You have people questioning it's legitimacy. Which is probably worse then it existing at all. Hell even Yuri on Ice getting the "but is it actually gay" shit was pretty infuriating. Add Devilman Crybaby onto that too while you're at it. It has to be so blatant to the point of making people cautious of even trying the series or ambiguously the point where it's questionable.

And I understand LGBT+ stuff is a risk in media. Especially Japan media. At least it's making stride and I rather the push back wasn't homophobic as fuck.


Are these stuff actually ambitious though? I found out that a lot "ambiguous" series aren't actually so, it's more that people come up with all kind of bizarre excuses on why stuff isn't gay.

Like, you still have people denying Kaworu and Shinji or Touya and Yukito.


I'd say something like Devilman is pretty damn ambitious especially for the time period is came out in. Go Nagai always thought of it as a tragic love story between Akira and Ryo.

And though I liked YoI enough, I'd say it'll probably pave the way for more anime to go all the way in its media especially in the main stream kind.

I've never seem people delegitimize those relationships particularly but those relationships are much more emphasized under the layer of the series. Like the fact that CLAMP used to be a doujin group and are not taken back to insert a gay relationships or that there were some things cut from Eva to make the relationship between Kaworu and Shinji much more blatant in the series and of course the manga isn't shy about that stuff either.

I just hear way too often the question of "Is it actually gay?" much more then I should. Especially with the male relationships.
 
Mar 29, 2018 10:10 AM
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Orhunaa said:
I think what we need the most is more yaoi/yuri anime that isn't just pandering to straight fangirls/fanboys and is actual romance. Most of those so called "romance" shows portray unrealistic, unhealthy couples that's sole reason is to be fetishized. The closest thing to a decent gay romance that I can think of was Doukyuusei, and even that wasn't the greatest thing ever in my opinion.


I was basically going to say this. I know a ton of LGBTQ+ people in the anime community, but it's not great when a lot of the media is fetishized by straight fans and often portrays unhealthy relationships.

Also, I know it's over, but I need to add something else to the sex vs romance conversation. Sex isn't a prerequisite for romance. Do you need to confirm that 2 anime characters had sex for the show to be a "real" romance?
まぁ、全部嘘だけどね。
 
Mar 29, 2018 10:14 AM

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Stripes said:
hazarddex said:
as a heterosexual manga enthusiast i find just the opposite there is a shit ton of Yaoi and yuri manga out there.


Have you tried reading any of them? They're basically fanfiction in manga format. And yeah that does it for some but reading something that can tackle a romance with the gender being ambiguous or I don't know, taking it's characters seriously is fucking rare. I've only got two series in my 100 BL reads that goes for it all the way. And romance is schlock and poorly written in general but the tact and hate towards the community is fucking awful.


Andigo said:


Dont gotta be alt right or of any political stance to feel anime doesnt need any of that shit injected into it. How about we let people be and create what they want? If anything id say anime is already the most accepting medium. Regardless, No matter what you wont find your lgbqtblahblah relationships in anime or anything else when compared to whats normal or average because its a minority group, and imo really not a natural or beautiful one at that.. I mean not to hurt any feelings, but im sick of hearing about all this acceptance, bs. Do you, be you, no one gives a fk but why is it everytime i see something about this lgbqt shit its always someone bitching about something.?


The lgbtq isn't a minority group. And your straight white male dumbassery is showing maybe you should shove it down with your ego while you fix your shit grammar/spelling.



I love this straight white male remark you sjws love to throw out there, what a racist assumption. Cant be bother to fix my grammer while typing on my phone at work, not everyone sits behind a computer for work. Theres my assumption. Also in what world do you live in? They most certainly are a minority. The numbers also keep dwindling when you start to pick apart all the different "classes" or "genders" of that community. Dont expect or demand to be represented in media in proportion to the norm... also dont bitch when you arnt. If you read my other posts or just generally calm down you would realize no one gives a shit about what people do with themselves and no one is stopping people in that community from creating what they want.
 
Mar 29, 2018 10:24 AM

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Andigo said:
Stripes said:


Have you tried reading any of them? They're basically fanfiction in manga format. And yeah that does it for some but reading something that can tackle a romance with the gender being ambiguous or I don't know, taking it's characters seriously is fucking rare. I've only got two series in my 100 BL reads that goes for it all the way. And romance is schlock and poorly written in general but the tact and hate towards the community is fucking awful.




The lgbtq isn't a minority group. And your straight white male dumbassery is showing maybe you should shove it down with your ego while you fix your shit grammar/spelling.



I love this straight white male remark you sjws love to throw out there, what a racist assumption. Cant be bother to fix my grammer while typing on my phone at work, not everyone sits behind a computer for work. Theres my assumption. Also in what world do you live in? They most certainly are a minority. The numbers also keep dwindling when you start to pick apart all the different "classes" or "genders" of that community. Dont expect or demand to be represented in media in proportion to the norm... also dont bitch when you arnt. If you read my other posts or just generally calm down you would realize no one gives a shit about what people do with themselves and no one is stopping people in that community from creating what they want.


It's estimated that nearly 85% of this planet is slightly bisexual. That's certainly not a minority.

Very few people are actually a "0" on the kinsey scale. Most are at least a 1, if not a 2. It's too bad that so many people fear finding out more about themselves, and what they like, as a very large percentage of the ones who are aware of their bisexuality keep it a secret, and won't tell anyone.

Thankfully, here in North America, people are starting to open up.
 
Mar 29, 2018 10:45 AM

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Mikotoba said:
Orhunaa said:
I think what we need the most is more yaoi/yuri anime that isn't just pandering to straight fangirls/fanboys and is actual romance. Most of those so called "romance" shows portray unrealistic, unhealthy couples that's sole reason is to be fetishized. The closest thing to a decent gay romance that I can think of was Doukyuusei, and even that wasn't the greatest thing ever in my opinion.


Also, I know it's over, but I need to add something else to the sex vs romance conversation. Sex isn't a prerequisite for romance. Do you need to confirm that 2 anime characters had sex for the show to be a "real" romance?


I don't mean sexually explicit anime/manga when I say Yaoi and Yuri. Shounen Ai and Shoujo Ai are terms created from western audience to distinguish explicit shows and not so explicit shows. Japanese people actually refer to any and every work featuring homosexual romance Yaoi and Yuri, which is I think how it should be used as it is the original definition.

So no, I don't think 2 characters have to have sex for the show to be romance and I've actually never said that.
 
Mar 29, 2018 10:49 AM
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Orhunaa said:

I don't mean sexually explicit anime/manga when I say Yaoi and Yuri. Shounen Ai and Shoujo Ai are terms created from western audience to distinguish explicit shows and not so explicit shows. Japanese people actually refer to any and every work featuring homosexual romance Yaoi and Yuri, which is I think how it should be used as it is the original definition.

So no, I don't think 2 characters have to have sex for the show to be romance and I've actually never said that.
Oh, I wasn't referring to you when I said that; I agree with you 100%. I was referring to the user a few pages back who was arguing that romance = sex basically. Sorry, I should have quoted them, but I didn't really want to go back and find everything they had said because it was just so ridiculous to me.
まぁ、全部嘘だけどね。
 
Mar 29, 2018 10:53 AM

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Mikotoba said:
Orhunaa said:

I don't mean sexually explicit anime/manga when I say Yaoi and Yuri. Shounen Ai and Shoujo Ai are terms created from western audience to distinguish explicit shows and not so explicit shows. Japanese people actually refer to any and every work featuring homosexual romance Yaoi and Yuri, which is I think how it should be used as it is the original definition.

So no, I don't think 2 characters have to have sex for the show to be romance and I've actually never said that.
Oh, I wasn't referring to you when I said that; I agree with you 100%. I was referring to the user a few pages back who was arguing that romance = sex basically. Sorry, I should have quoted them, but I didn't really want to go back and find everything they had said because it was just so ridiculous to me.


Oh sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
Mar 29, 2018 10:55 AM

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pinky_candydive said:
SupremeEdgelord said:




Care to explain to me what do you mean by that?


Okay note here that this does not apply to every BL manga/anime. But what I mean by fetish is that the characters have this certain arch-type. This comes back to me saying that BL is made by straight women. The other half of BL couple is really feminine. This so that women can project themselves in to the story by which the whole sense of BL loses it's meaning. And again remember this does not apply to every BL manga/anime there is. Also there are lots of non-con elements in some of these BL mangas/animes which is really uncomfortable to read but these elements are dissmissed in the series.


And this isn't how most romance/ecchi/hentai is like?

Pretty sure it is. Most hentai is rape. Most romance and ecchi stuff has troped out characters with bad writing. lol. I can find exceptions which have slightly better writing. But tropes aren't bad, just writing.

Also really wondering what is so wrong about having a fetish.... or looking at a fetish work and liking it.

And yeah, you could write a whole paper on why Yaoi is actually Yuri... there are 20 page long papers on just that subject.

Men have chicks with dicks and guys who look like girls, as well as shota.... women have.... guys with girl brains and multiple orgasms, with fetishized job titles.
Modified by Energetic-Nova, Mar 29, 2018 11:01 AM
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Mar 29, 2018 11:34 AM

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Cosmos said:
We do live in a market system. It is what it is. The market provides what the majority of people want and like.
Markets are an imperfect reflection of what people want. Many anime flop or outperform expectations because the industry doesn't know exactly who their customers are or what they want at this particular moment -- and the industry is constrained by their own interests, biases, and capabilities. For example, a male dominated industry may have a hard time fulfilling the consumer appetite for compelling stories written from female perspectives. It takes time and effort for entertainment industries to catch up. It is a certainty that there are many different and successful anime just waiting to be made, so to speak. Some of them may take LGBTQ perspectives.
LoneWolf said:
@Josh - Makes me sad to call myself Canadian.
 
Mar 29, 2018 11:44 AM
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I haven't read the replies in this thread, but I'm sure at least one person will have mentioned that trans is not really a thing in Japan, not like online in the west. Sure they have traps and otoko no ko or whatever but those are simply treated as fetishes. Looking to anime to have good trans/homosexual relationships will not get you very far at all.
 
Mar 29, 2018 11:46 AM
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Stripes said:


I just hear way too often the question of "Is it actually gay?" much more then I should. Especially with the male relationships.


Yes, but my point is that it is not necessarily fault of these works as it is fault of the part of the audience that refuses to acknowledge the possibility of normal m/m relationships in their "normal" shows, partially because homophobia, partially because of heteronormativity. I've seen people call No.6 "ambiguous", and the characters kiss twice in it, like these people genuinely cannot see gay people as anything other than jokes.

I don't think CLAMP being ex-doujinka matter much by the way, that's a case for a lot of authors, especially female ones.

Kuromii said:
I haven't read the replies in this thread, but I'm sure at least one person will have mentioned that trans is not really a thing in Japan, not like online in the west. Sure they have traps and otoko no ko or whatever but those are simply treated as fetishes. Looking to anime to have good trans/homosexual relationships will not get you very far at all.

This is not true at all--- there are even some manga/anime featuring trans characters and they are important (Horou Musuko or Yuureitou).
 
Mar 29, 2018 11:51 AM
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AdolChri said:
This is not true at all--- there are even some manga/anime featuring trans characters and they are important (Horou Musuko or Yuureitou).

That's two out of, what, 10,000+ anime ever made? I said it "will not get you very far" - they exist, yes, but they are sparse, not very popular, not mainstream, and don't sell well. I was also talking about anime, not manga, as I said in my first post.
 
Mar 29, 2018 11:53 AM

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Energetic-Nova said:
pinky_candydive said:


Okay note here that this does not apply to every BL manga/anime. But what I mean by fetish is that the characters have this certain arch-type. This comes back to me saying that BL is made by straight women. The other half of BL couple is really feminine. This so that women can project themselves in to the story by which the whole sense of BL loses it's meaning. And again remember this does not apply to every BL manga/anime there is. Also there are lots of non-con elements in some of these BL mangas/animes which is really uncomfortable to read but these elements are dissmissed in the series.


And this isn't how most romance/ecchi/hentai is like?

Pretty sure it is. Most hentai is rape. Most romance and ecchi stuff has troped out characters with bad writing. lol. I can find exceptions which have slightly better writing. But tropes aren't bad, just writing.

Also really wondering what is so wrong about having a fetish.... or looking at a fetish work and liking it.

And yeah, you could write a whole paper on why Yaoi is actually Yuri... there are 20 page long papers on just that subject.

Men have chicks with dicks and guys who look like girls, as well as shota.... women have.... guys with girl brains and multiple orgasms, with fetishized job titles.


Sorry I'm no sure I quite understand. And my point wasn't that yaoi is yuri but that yaoi is straight and so it loses it's meaning.

And there isn't anything wrong with having a fetish. As long as it's not harming anyone. The thing with BL fetish is that it can portray a wrong image of LGBTQ people.
 
Mar 29, 2018 12:15 PM
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Kuromii said:
AdolChri said:
This is not true at all--- there are even some manga/anime featuring trans characters and they are important (Horou Musuko or Yuureitou).

That's two out of, what, 10,000+ anime ever made? I said it "will not get you very far" - they exist, yes, but they are sparse, not very popular, not mainstream, and don't sell well. I was also talking about anime, not manga, as I said in my first post.

Ok? My point is that trans people exist in Japan, why wouldn't they?
 
Mar 29, 2018 12:17 PM
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AdolChri said:
Kuromii said:

That's two out of, what, 10,000+ anime ever made? I said it "will not get you very far" - they exist, yes, but they are sparse, not very popular, not mainstream, and don't sell well. I was also talking about anime, not manga, as I said in my first post.

Ok? My point is that trans people exist in Japan, why wouldn't they?

That may have been your point in your head, but your words didn't convey that.

Of course they exist. What I was saying was that it isn't a trend over there like it is in the west, so media isn't going to pander to it.
 
Mar 29, 2018 1:27 PM

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pinky_candydive said:
Energetic-Nova said:


And this isn't how most romance/ecchi/hentai is like?

Pretty sure it is. Most hentai is rape. Most romance and ecchi stuff has troped out characters with bad writing. lol. I can find exceptions which have slightly better writing. But tropes aren't bad, just writing.

Also really wondering what is so wrong about having a fetish.... or looking at a fetish work and liking it.

And yeah, you could write a whole paper on why Yaoi is actually Yuri... there are 20 page long papers on just that subject.

Men have chicks with dicks and guys who look like girls, as well as shota.... women have.... guys with girl brains and multiple orgasms, with fetishized job titles.


Sorry I'm no sure I quite understand. And my point wasn't that yaoi is yuri but that yaoi is straight and so it loses it's meaning.

And there isn't anything wrong with having a fetish. As long as it's not harming anyone. The thing with BL fetish is that it can portray a wrong image of LGBTQ people.


I guess what I’m wondering is, why are lgbt characters being held to a higher standard than others? I often ask this when people say female characters suck... because it isn’t as if male anime characters aren’t often as unrealistic as any other.

And maybe it is because of who I am married to, I just don’t see yaoi characters as being so far away from him. Unhealthy relationships are a lot more fun than healthy ones to read about. Best example: My Love Story is often called boring because the relationship is too perfect.

Gravitation definitely had an effect on me. And it had an effect on my husband. We both heavily identify with the characters.

I am a bisexual woman though who has a husband who likes more yaoi than she does. Definitely not normal people.

But... I donno, as an example, moe characters are a fetishization of innocence and girlishness. But they are not really like real girls, just the idea of a girl who is innocent and a virgin. It would I guess be like me saying those female characters don't count as real female characters.
Modified by Energetic-Nova, Mar 29, 2018 1:35 PM
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Mar 29, 2018 1:33 PM

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AdolChri said:
Stripes said:


I just hear way too often the question of "Is it actually gay?" much more then I should. Especially with the male relationships.


Yes, but my point is that it is not necessarily fault of these works as it is fault of the part of the audience that refuses to acknowledge the possibility of normal m/m relationships in their "normal" shows, partially because homophobia, partially because of heteronormativity. I've seen people call No.6 "ambiguous", and the characters kiss twice in it, like these people genuinely cannot see gay people as anything other than jokes.

I don't think CLAMP being ex-doujinka matter much by the way, that's a case for a lot of authors, especially female ones.

Kuromii said:
I haven't read the replies in this thread, but I'm sure at least one person will have mentioned that trans is not really a thing in Japan, not like online in the west. Sure they have traps and otoko no ko or whatever but those are simply treated as fetishes. Looking to anime to have good trans/homosexual relationships will not get you very far at all.

This is not true at all--- there are even some manga/anime featuring trans characters and they are important (Horou Musuko or Yuureitou).


I do not understand how No.6 is ambiguous but the 20+ years of fighting over if Shinji is bisexual or the moment I peaked outside of yaoi forums about what other people were thinking about Yuri on Ice.... basically, people will do anything to say #nohomo no matter what you bring to the table.
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Mar 29, 2018 1:46 PM
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Maybe it's because the majority of people are straight...

I mean, appealing to a larger audience is smart
 
Mar 29, 2018 1:54 PM

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OP, I hope you're ready for this, i'ma bout to solve the mystery for you.

Why's there a lack of anime of said genres? Well that's because it's a literal waste of money to make one and this is not even mentioning that all of them or most(like 99%) should go straight to the burner without ever touching the trash bin(sources usually included).
There we go mystery solved.

Btw i don't care about representation and anybody that does from that community (which is typical for them) i usually find pretty stupid.

Can we fucking drop these threads now, like forever please.
Modified by AstZero, Mar 29, 2018 2:06 PM
The beauty of humans is that they say one thing then do another, but at the same time that can also be their ugliest side.
 
Mar 29, 2018 1:59 PM

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greymood said:
Just look past the mainstream and you'll find it, really. Shimura Takako is pretty strong in this field if you wanna a place to start

And unlike western fanbase like to claim Japan isn't the conservative land they think it is. There's activism going on there and "queer" works are gaining more space than ever with stuff like My Lesbian Experience With Loneliness being hits

Now, i'm sorry but i wouldn't say that yaoi is really the way to go. As much as there're works that i love most of them remain being plain unrealistic and female oriented, when it's not just porn

Ekaen said:

What's the point of making anime based people that resemble specific characteristics of a social data?


Because representation is a thing and there're people whom wanna see diversity in fiction



There's a lot of diversity in fiction bud but i think you're in the minority if you think ppl want to see more characters of sorts.

So you're far off there.

Also representation is probably the most stupid thing i see people spout , the concept of thinking about that is so fucking stupid that it's funny.
But the community is already annoying enough with their "hur dur representation" thing, cause for some reason they usually tend to think they're some kind of special for some reason cause they're attracted to dicks/pussies. Pretty funny.
Modified by AstZero, Mar 29, 2018 2:03 PM
The beauty of humans is that they say one thing then do another, but at the same time that can also be their ugliest side.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:06 PM

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AstZero said:

Also representation is probably the most stupid thing i see people spout , the concept of thinking about that is so fucking stupid that it's funny.


Yeah exactly that, I don't need to be represented in pack-man to like it or in a loli anime to enjoy it....

Lord of the rings has 0 representation of our culture and society yet people had fun watching and reading it.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:09 PM
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AstZero said:
OP, I hope you're ready for this, i'ma bout to solve the mystery for you.

Why's there a lack of anime of said genres? Well that's because it's a literal waste of money to make one and this is not even mentioning that all of them or most(like 99%) should go straight to the burner without ever touching the trash bin(sources usually included).
There we go mystery solved.

Btw i don't care about representation and anybody that does from that community (which is typical for them) i usually find pretty stupid.

Can we fucking drop these threads now, like forever please.

But Yuri on Ice is one of the most sold shows ever.

Btw i don't care about representation and anybody that does from that community (which is typical for them) i usually find pretty stupid.

Well, that's because you are super pandered. It's easy to see by looking at your own list.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:15 PM

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Seiya said:
Andigo said:


I love this straight white male remark you sjws love to throw out there, what a racist assumption. Cant be bother to fix my grammer while typing on my phone at work, not everyone sits behind a computer for work. Theres my assumption. Also in what world do you live in? They most certainly are a minority. The numbers also keep dwindling when you start to pick apart all the different "classes" or "genders" of that community. Dont expect or demand to be represented in media in proportion to the norm... also dont bitch when you arnt. If you read my other posts or just generally calm down you would realize no one gives a shit about what people do with themselves and no one is stopping people in that community from creating what they want.


It's estimated that nearly 85% of this planet is slightly bisexual. That's certainly not a minority.

Very few people are actually a "0" on the kinsey scale. Most are at least a 1, if not a 2. It's too bad that so many people fear finding out more about themselves, and what they like, as a very large percentage of the ones who are aware of their bisexuality keep it a secret, and won't tell anyone.

Thankfully, here in North America, people are starting to open up.


Estimated and Slightly I mean that's a huge ballpark. You don't actually believe that number do you?... I also don't know who pumped that number out but I highly doubt its legit even by an estimation standard. If it were true there would be no cause for concern here and these topics and movements wouldn't even exist.

I mean if you considered a person able to admit or even not admit that someone of the same sex has attractive features then lumping people in who have kissed a member of the same sex (Almost all western woman, at least from my experience), experimented or went through a phase, then I could see your number as being true. Otherwise its a farce.

Now to be fair I guess it depends on how you define bi-sexual, I don't put a scale on it, and for something that is apparently so defining people feel they need to fight for its acceptance, I feel its only fair to say either you are or you are not. I personally consider bi-sexual as someone who would self identify as having an equal attraction to both men and woman and also be willing to have a long term romantic and or sexual relationship with either. If you are unwilling to have either of those with the member of the opposite sex you are not bi.

Now lets also take people who are ashamed to admit they have these feelings baring its not just a phase or they don't dominantly prefer 1 sex over the other. I still struggle to see that number as correct.

I can admit unashamed when a member of the opposite sex has attractive features, I also have slapped a few of my coworkers and friends asses in my time.... I'm still most certainly not bi-sexual.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:18 PM

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AdolChri said:
AstZero said:
OP, I hope you're ready for this, i'ma bout to solve the mystery for you.

Why's there a lack of anime of said genres? Well that's because it's a literal waste of money to make one and this is not even mentioning that all of them or most(like 99%) should go straight to the burner without ever touching the trash bin(sources usually included).
There we go mystery solved.

Btw i don't care about representation and anybody that does from that community (which is typical for them) i usually find pretty stupid.

Can we fucking drop these threads now, like forever please.

But Yuri on Ice is one of the most sold shows ever.

Btw i don't care about representation and anybody that does from that community (which is typical for them) i usually find pretty stupid.

Well, that's because you are super pandered. It's easy to see by looking at your own list.


Oh so you find one shounen ai anime out of 78 that sold well and you think you could use that as a solid argument.... Lmao, good one.
I don't think i even need to list anime that sold more than double of what YoI sold but whatever.

Also wait, you asking for more anime of such isn't asking for pandering. Hmmmm interesting really interesting lol. Yes, of course i watch shows that suit my taste not something i have no interest in lmao, i have a blast when i get my adrenaline rush from watching action shows.
I still find the concept pretty stupid(and those that complain about it), and i forever will.

Also, the fact still stands, it's a waste of money considering the current market.
Modified by AstZero, Mar 29, 2018 2:22 PM
The beauty of humans is that they say one thing then do another, but at the same time that can also be their ugliest side.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:18 PM

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Andigo said:
Seiya said:


It's estimated that nearly 85% of this planet is slightly bisexual. That's certainly not a minority.

Very few people are actually a "0" on the kinsey scale. Most are at least a 1, if not a 2. It's too bad that so many people fear finding out more about themselves, and what they like, as a very large percentage of the ones who are aware of their bisexuality keep it a secret, and won't tell anyone.

Thankfully, here in North America, people are starting to open up.


Estimated and Slightly I mean that's a huge ballpark. You don't actually believe that number do you?... I also don't know who pumped that number out but I highly doubt its legit even by an estimation standard. If it were true there would be no cause for concern here and these topics and movements wouldn't even exist.

I mean if you considered a person able to admit or even not admit that someone of the same sex has attractive features then lumping people in who have kissed a member of the same sex (Almost all western woman, at least from my experience), experimented or went through a phase, then I could see your number as being true. Otherwise its a farce.

Now to be fair I guess it depends on how you define bi-sexual, I don't put a scale on it. I personally consider bi-sexual as someone who would self identify as having an equal attraction to both men and woman and also be willing to have a long term romantic and or sexual relationship with either. If you are unwilling to have either of those with the member of the opposite sex you are not bi.

Now lets also take people who are ashamed to admit they have these feelings baring its not just a phase or they don't dominantly prefer 1 sex over the other. I still struggle to see that number as correct.

I can admit unashamed when a member of the opposite sex has attractive features, I also have slapped a few of my coworkers and friends asses in my time.... I'm still most certainly not bi-sexual.


Most bisexual people are not "Equally attracted" to both genders. That's not how it works.

A man heavily preferring women over men doesn't make him straight, just like a man heavily preferring men over women doesn't make him gay.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:21 PM

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@AstZero @Ekaen Of course you "don't need to be represented", most of the stuff is heteronormative thus representing you already o_O



 
Mar 29, 2018 2:22 PM

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Ekaen said:
AstZero said:

Also representation is probably the most stupid thing i see people spout , the concept of thinking about that is so fucking stupid that it's funny.


Yeah exactly that, I don't need to be represented in pack-man to like it or in a loli anime to enjoy it....

Lord of the rings has 0 representation of our culture and society yet people had fun watching and reading it.


Finally somebody with a brain, that understands it.

Good for you.
The beauty of humans is that they say one thing then do another, but at the same time that can also be their ugliest side.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:24 PM

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Andigo said:
Seiya said:


It's estimated that nearly 85% of this planet is slightly bisexual. That's certainly not a minority.

Very few people are actually a "0" on the kinsey scale. Most are at least a 1, if not a 2. It's too bad that so many people fear finding out more about themselves, and what they like, as a very large percentage of the ones who are aware of their bisexuality keep it a secret, and won't tell anyone.

Thankfully, here in North America, people are starting to open up.


Estimated and Slightly I mean that's a huge ballpark. You don't actually believe that number do you?... I also don't know who pumped that number out but I highly doubt its legit even by an estimation standard. If it were true there would be no cause for concern here and these topics and movements wouldn't even exist.

I mean if you considered a person able to admit or even not admit that someone of the same sex has attractive features then lumping people in who have kissed a member of the same sex (Almost all western woman, at least from my experience), experimented or went through a phase, then I could see your number as being true. Otherwise its a farce.

Now to be fair I guess it depends on how you define bi-sexual, I don't put a scale on it, and for something that is apparently so defining people feel they need to fight for its acceptance, I feel its only fair to say either you are or you are not. I personally consider bi-sexual as someone who would self identify as having an equal attraction to both men and woman and also be willing to have a long term romantic and or sexual relationship with either. If you are unwilling to have either of those with the member of the opposite sex you are not bi.

Now lets also take people who are ashamed to admit they have these feelings baring its not just a phase or they don't dominantly prefer 1 sex over the other. I still struggle to see that number as correct.

I can admit unashamed when a member of the opposite sex has attractive features, I also have slapped a few of my coworkers and friends asses in my time.... I'm still most certainly not bi-sexual.


"Unwilling to have either"

I mean just because I am married, doesn't mean I don't look at some hot ladies... >.> I look at hot guys too but, I heavily prefer women physically. But I am married to a guy, and tend to think pretty guys are cuter than girls, but facts are facts, IRL, there are way more pretty girls than pretty guys.

I think the women I am attracted to IRL far outweighs the men, and almost no man can win my attraction being 100% straight.

Bi-sexual is just that. Sexual thoughts about men and women. You don't spend 8 hours looking at Britney Spears videos because she has a nice voice.
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:27 PM
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AstZero said:


Oh so you find one shounen ai anime out of 78 that sold well and you think you could use that as a solid argument.... Lmao, good one.


Of course shounen ai anime sell like shit, most of them are awful. Meanwhile Ten Counts sells more than some shounen jump manga.

I don't think i even need to list anime that sold more than double of what YoI sold but whatever.

Err, Yuri on Ice is like the third most sold show since the 2000, the first volume sold for a total of 70k, and this is not counting stuff like the OST, etc. It probably sold more than 90% of your favorite shows combined lol. It was a complete hit and one of the most popular anime of the last decade.

Edit:
By the end of 2017, Yuri on Ice was the eighth top-selling media franchise in Japan

Combined Blu-Ray and DVD sales resulted in Yuri on Ice being the top-selling TV anime of 2017, and the second top-selling anime overall behind the anime film Your Name.[102]

Pretty good for a show about gays in an era in which disk sales are dying. =)


Also, the fact still stands, it's a waste of money considering the current market.

Again, you clearly don't know what you are talking about Shows like YoI If anything show it's an untapped market.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:28 PM

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greymood said:
@AstZero @Ekaen Of course you "don't need to be represented", most of the stuff is heteronormative thus representing you already o_O





Lol, the point is why do you even care?? O.O
Like what does it do for you?
What does it mean?
Me being represented means literally nothing to me lmao, whether i am or i'm not.
It doesn't make me any less happier nor does it make me any less sad.
The beauty of humans is that they say one thing then do another, but at the same time that can also be their ugliest side.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:28 PM

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Seiya said:
Andigo said:


Estimated and Slightly I mean that's a huge ballpark. You don't actually believe that number do you?... I also don't know who pumped that number out but I highly doubt its legit even by an estimation standard. If it were true there would be no cause for concern here and these topics and movements wouldn't even exist.

I mean if you considered a person able to admit or even not admit that someone of the same sex has attractive features then lumping people in who have kissed a member of the same sex (Almost all western woman, at least from my experience), experimented or went through a phase, then I could see your number as being true. Otherwise its a farce.

Now to be fair I guess it depends on how you define bi-sexual, I don't put a scale on it. I personally consider bi-sexual as someone who would self identify as having an equal attraction to both men and woman and also be willing to have a long term romantic and or sexual relationship with either. If you are unwilling to have either of those with the member of the opposite sex you are not bi.

Now lets also take people who are ashamed to admit they have these feelings baring its not just a phase or they don't dominantly prefer 1 sex over the other. I still struggle to see that number as correct.

I can admit unashamed when a member of the opposite sex has attractive features, I also have slapped a few of my coworkers and friends asses in my time.... I'm still most certainly not bi-sexual.


Most bisexual people are not "Equally attracted" to both genders. That's not how it works.

A man heavily preferring women over men doesn't make him straight, just like a man heavily preferring men over women doesn't make him gay.


Okay retract equally for arguments sake. Now still be willing to have a long term romantic and or sexual relationship with either gender.. I still just don't see it.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:29 PM
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AdolChri said:
AstZero said:


Oh so you find one shounen ai anime out of 78 that sold well and you think you could use that as a solid argument.... Lmao, good one.


Of course shounen ai anime sell like shit, most of them are awful. Meanwhile Ten Counts sells more than some shounen jump manga.

I don't think i even need to list anime that sold more than double of what YoI sold but whatever.

Err, Yuri on Ice is like the third most sold show since the 2000, the first volume sold for a total of 70k, and this is not counting stuff like the OST, etc. It probably sold more than 90% of your favorite shows combined lol. It was a complete hit and one of the most popular anime of the last decade.


Also, the fact still stands, it's a waste of money considering the current market.

Again, you clearly don't know what you are talking about Shows like YoI If anything show it's an untapped market.
yuri on ice was really popular it really hit hard for the female fanbase :) i've never seen it myself but i applaud the success of the boy love genre *claps
アニメ幼女見てるのが楽しい
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:31 PM

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AstZero said:
greymood said:
@AstZero @Ekaen Of course you "don't need to be represented", most of the stuff is heteronormative thus representing you already o_O





Lol, the point is why do you even care?? O.O
Like what does it do for you?
What does it mean?
Me being represented means literally nothing to me lmao, whether i am or i'm not.
It doesn't make me any less happier nor does it make me any less sad.


Again, it doesn't make any difference for you because you're already represented, lol

Meanwhile you've got really defensive because gay people wanna some gay characters in those anime that normally panders to you. Why are you so afraid of gay?
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:31 PM
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AstZero said:
greymood said:
@AstZero @Ekaen Of course you "don't need to be represented", most of the stuff is heteronormative thus representing you already o_O





Lol, the point is why do you even care?? O.O
Like what does it do for you?
What does it mean?
Me being represented means literally nothing to me lmao, whether i am or i'm not.
It doesn't make me any less happier nor does it make me any less sad.

Well, of course you wouldn't know, you are always represented lol. You probably have problems imaginings world in which you don't exist.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:32 PM

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AstZero said:
greymood said:
@AstZero @Ekaen Of course you "don't need to be represented", most of the stuff is heteronormative thus representing you already o_O





Lol, the point is why do you even care?? O.O
Like what does it do for you?
What does it mean?
Me being represented means literally nothing to me lmao, whether i am or i'm not.
It doesn't make me any less happier nor does it make me any less sad.


Considering the only thing I know Serbia for... >.> I don't blame you for not wanting to be represented.
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:32 PM

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Andigo said:
Seiya said:


Most bisexual people are not "Equally attracted" to both genders. That's not how it works.

A man heavily preferring women over men doesn't make him straight, just like a man heavily preferring men over women doesn't make him gay.


Okay retract equally for arguments sake. Now still be willing to have a long term romantic and or sexual relationship with either gender.. I still just don't see it.


As far as I'm concerned, love and romance knows no gender. Maybe you're not sexually attracted to the same gender, but you can probably still love them, because you care for them.

I'm not sexually attracted to real men at all, but I could still be in a long-term romantic relationship with a guy if he's a great person.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:34 PM

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Energetic-Nova said:
Andigo said:


Estimated and Slightly I mean that's a huge ballpark. You don't actually believe that number do you?... I also don't know who pumped that number out but I highly doubt its legit even by an estimation standard. If it were true there would be no cause for concern here and these topics and movements wouldn't even exist.

I mean if you considered a person able to admit or even not admit that someone of the same sex has attractive features then lumping people in who have kissed a member of the same sex (Almost all western woman, at least from my experience), experimented or went through a phase, then I could see your number as being true. Otherwise its a farce.

Now to be fair I guess it depends on how you define bi-sexual, I don't put a scale on it, and for something that is apparently so defining people feel they need to fight for its acceptance, I feel its only fair to say either you are or you are not. I personally consider bi-sexual as someone who would self identify as having an equal attraction to both men and woman and also be willing to have a long term romantic and or sexual relationship with either. If you are unwilling to have either of those with the member of the opposite sex you are not bi.

Now lets also take people who are ashamed to admit they have these feelings baring its not just a phase or they don't dominantly prefer 1 sex over the other. I still struggle to see that number as correct.

I can admit unashamed when a member of the opposite sex has attractive features, I also have slapped a few of my coworkers and friends asses in my time.... I'm still most certainly not bi-sexual.


"Unwilling to have either"

I mean just because I am married, doesn't mean I don't look at some hot ladies... >.> I look at hot guys too but, I heavily prefer women physically. But I am married to a guy, and tend to think pretty guys are cuter than girls, but facts are facts, IRL, there are way more pretty girls than pretty guys.

I think the women I am attracted to IRL far outweighs the men, and almost no man can win my attraction being 100% straight.

Bi-sexual is just that. Sexual thoughts about men and women. You don't spend 8 hours looking at Britney Spears videos because she has a nice voice.


I don't think going ahead and labeling someone bi sexual for seeing attractive features in either sex is fair nor do I believe that to be considered bi-sexual. That's just unbiased observation :P
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:35 PM

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AdolChri said:
AstZero said:


Oh so you find one shounen ai anime out of 78 that sold well and you think you could use that as a solid argument.... Lmao, good one.


Of course shounen ai anime sell like shit, most of them are awful. Meanwhile Ten Counts sells more than some shounen jump manga.

I don't think i even need to list anime that sold more than double of what YoI sold but whatever.

Err, Yuri on Ice is like the third most sold show since the 2000, the first volume sold for a total of 70k, and this is not counting stuff like the OST, etc. It probably sold more than 90% of your favorite shows combined lol. It was a complete hit and one of the most popular anime of the last decade.


Also, the fact still stands, it's a waste of money considering the current market.

Again, you clearly don't know what you are talking about Shows like YoI If anything show it's an untapped market.


Woho buddy you answered yourself.

Untapped market? Uh i'd stick to my isekai shows rather than spend 100k USD per ep to make an anime for a market which is only proven by 1 show.
I think i know fully well what i'm talking about.
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Mar 29, 2018 2:37 PM

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Andigo said:
Energetic-Nova said:


"Unwilling to have either"

I mean just because I am married, doesn't mean I don't look at some hot ladies... >.> I look at hot guys too but, I heavily prefer women physically. But I am married to a guy, and tend to think pretty guys are cuter than girls, but facts are facts, IRL, there are way more pretty girls than pretty guys.

I think the women I am attracted to IRL far outweighs the men, and almost no man can win my attraction being 100% straight.

Bi-sexual is just that. Sexual thoughts about men and women. You don't spend 8 hours looking at Britney Spears videos because she has a nice voice.


I don't think going ahead and labeling someone bi sexual for seeing attractive features in either sex is fair nor do I believe that to be considered bi-sexual. That's just unbiased observation :P


I watch Work B*tch so much you don't even know. >.> It is really really hot. (Slumber Party, Toxic and Womanizer are also hot)
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:38 PM
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AstZero said:

Woho buddy you answered yourself.

Untapped market? Uh i'd stick to my isekai shows rather than spend 100k USD per ep to make an anime for a market which is only proven by 1 show.
I think i know fully well what i'm talking about.

Actually, a lot fujo shows sell very well. Free for example, or several sport anime are famous for having a large amount of female fans to the point male fans tend to complain. Yuri on Ice broke the mold and sold even more.


Iseikai and harem shows sell terrible most of the time lol. You think every shit anime is an hit like infinite stratos? You clearly don't frequent sales threads much, even something like Franxx is selling poorly. You know what's selling a lot this season? Cute girls camping.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:39 PM

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Seiya said:
Andigo said:


Okay retract equally for arguments sake. Now still be willing to have a long term romantic and or sexual relationship with either gender.. I still just don't see it.


As far as I'm concerned, love and romance knows no gender. Maybe you're not sexually attracted to the same gender, but you can probably still love them, because you care for them.

I'm not sexually attracted to real men at all, but I could still be in a long-term romantic relationship with a guy if he's a great person.


Hmm... The two more often then not go hand in hand. I wouldn't see you as bi sexual then... I mean there are different kinds of love for sure..

Id say your an extreme rarity, having a romantic relationship but not having any sexual attraction.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:41 PM

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Posts: 734
greymood said:
AstZero said:


Lol, the point is why do you even care?? O.O
Like what does it do for you?
What does it mean?
Me being represented means literally nothing to me lmao, whether i am or i'm not.
It doesn't make me any less happier nor does it make me any less sad.


Again, it doesn't make any difference for you because you're already represented, lol

Meanwhile you've got really defensive because gay people wanna some gay characters in those anime that normally panders to you. Why are you so afraid of gay?


Again, do you think i would care, i'm saying i wouldn't.
Anyways i'm asking you what does it mean for you, clearly you have no answer for now.
You ask for something but you don't really know what to do with it in the first place. What would it do for you, what would it change?
Would you enjoy a show more just cause there's that one shitty gay character in the backround(yes usually their writing is shit or they're used as a joke)? Would you really?

LOL, defensive.

Trust me buddy i don't care if you like sucking dick or pussy i really don't lmao.
The beauty of humans is that they say one thing then do another, but at the same time that can also be their ugliest side.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:42 PM

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Andigo said:
Seiya said:


As far as I'm concerned, love and romance knows no gender. Maybe you're not sexually attracted to the same gender, but you can probably still love them, because you care for them.

I'm not sexually attracted to real men at all, but I could still be in a long-term romantic relationship with a guy if he's a great person.


Hmm... The two more often then not go hand in hand. I wouldn't see you as bi sexual then... I mean there are different kinds of love for sure..

Id say your an extreme rarity, having a romantic relationship but not having any sexual attraction.


Romance and sex are two completely separate things.

I'm not wasting anymore time with you, because it seems that I keep running into people who can't tell the difference between romance and sex for some reason.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:45 PM

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Energetic-Nova said:
Andigo said:


I don't think going ahead and labeling someone bi sexual for seeing attractive features in either sex is fair nor do I believe that to be considered bi-sexual. That's just unbiased observation :P


I watch Work B*tch so much you don't even know. >.> It is really really hot. (Slumber Party, Toxic and Womanizer are also hot)


I mean I dug her back in the day but now i don't find her too attractive.
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:47 PM

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Seiya said:
Andigo said:


Hmm... The two more often then not go hand in hand. I wouldn't see you as bi sexual then... I mean there are different kinds of love for sure..

Id say your an extreme rarity, having a romantic relationship but not having any sexual attraction.


Romance and sex are two completely separate things.

I'm not wasting anymore time with you, because it seems that I keep running into people who can't tell the difference between romance and sex for some reason.
Seiya said:
Andigo said:


Hmm... The two more often then not go hand in hand. I wouldn't see you as bi sexual then... I mean there are different kinds of love for sure..

Id say your an extreme rarity, having a romantic relationship but not having any sexual attraction.


Romance and sex are two completely separate things.

I'm not wasting anymore time with you, because it seems that I keep running into people who can't tell the difference between romance and sex for some reason.


I think the fact you keep running into people who cant see the difference goes to show that the difference really isn't all that big. I respect your opinion and should at least respect others especially when the two quite clearly for most people go hand in hand.

The fact you see them as completely separate blows my mind as much I'm sure the fact I don't blows your mind. Chill, wanna be friends ?
 
Mar 29, 2018 2:48 PM

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Seiya said:
Andigo said:


Hmm... The two more often then not go hand in hand. I wouldn't see you as bi sexual then... I mean there are different kinds of love for sure..

Id say your an extreme rarity, having a romantic relationship but not having any sexual attraction.


Romance and sex are two completely separate things.

I'm not wasting anymore time with you, because it seems that I keep running into people who can't tell the difference between romance and sex for some reason.


I understand you Seiya. I mean, I feel really romantic with Alice because he is a nice person who treats me nice. Very nurturing personality.

If I only liked the sexy side of him I would say that I only enjoy the parts of him which I could fetishize or make about sex.

Sure, a relationship can start that way, but it sure as frig can't continue to only be based on sex. Romance, and commitment become increasingly important. You can't fuck every single day.... and sure sex is great but sometimes you don't feel like it or your partner doesn't feel like it. And ultimately it is the commitment and romance that keep you going. Lust can only go so far...

A person who is abusive but hot isn't really someone I would want a relationship with. It is only hot if they act elite in the bedroom (and for play).
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Mar 29, 2018 2:49 PM
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Here´s some truth, everyone who doesn´t want to accept reality, close your eyes.
Judging by the most positive outlook for LGBT people, only 10% of the world population consists of them.

This includes every bi-curious guy that tries some weird things in college and every girl that french kissed one of her female friends as well as everyone in the closet. Because statistically speaking, most of humanity consists of prudes.

If you apply those statistics to societies with acces to Anime that makes around 300 million people. Out of those around 3million are actually interested in Anime and only 300000 are intersted in LGBT content for the sake of it, thinly spinkled throughout over 100 million squarekilometers. Have fun finding an audience with those numbers.

That´s why LGBT content isn´t consumed by nearly anyone, but curious thirsty straight people, who bitch on the internet when their "specific" tastes aren´t met.
Modified by Isterio, Mar 29, 2018 2:58 PM
 
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