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#1
Mar 14, 2:18 AM

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I'm assuming everyone here has either seen or been one of those people that critically analyze anime, criticize tropes, etc. When does analyze anime, which is supposed to be a medium of entertainment, go too far? I believe that the anime community has become so obsessed with subverting anime tropes, that it gets in the way of enjoying the medium. Is analyzing Dragon Ball and criticizing it for its "simplistic formula" an indication that we've gone too far?

TL;DR - I believe that the anime community has become so obsessed with subverting anime tropes, that it gets in the way of enjoying the medium.
Modified by EmperorWeird, Mar 14, 2:21 AM
 
#2
Mar 14, 2:29 AM

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Yeah i think people over analyse anime, its a bit ridiculous how much people do it compared to other things like games/movies/tv series. But people can do what they want, doesn't really affect your own personal enjoyment
 
#3
Mar 14, 2:48 AM

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As much as they and their own audience enjoy it.
Some people gain enjoyment from watching the show, others prefer analysing it, some like both. It's all entertainment at the end of the day. As long as they're not going over and telling other people how to enjoy the Anime I don't really see the issue.
 
#4
Mar 14, 2:54 AM

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Everyone should just do whatever they need/want to to enjoy the medium if someone likes to write a whole book analizing a single frame of an anime who cares I mean it doesn't affect anyone else besides them ofc it can be a title annoying when these people are pretentious dicks who despise everyone who doesn't enjoy the medium like they do but still then you can just ignore them
 
#5
Mar 14, 3:03 AM
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Critical analysis of anime should go far until people stop enjoying anime itself and derive enjoyment from criticism of the same. Atleast, that's what I see around me.
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#6
Mar 14, 3:15 AM

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I mean, analyzing is quite subjective. People has their own taste, some people like said "simplistic" nature of the series, some does not.

And I don't really think the anime community is that much on analyzing in the first place, can't even say that criticizing Dragonball for being to simple, analytic. It's more a rant or a peeve at that.

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#7
Mar 14, 3:15 AM
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It should go as far as the person who is doing the analysis wants to go. Whether you want to read deeper analyses is up to you tho so I don't think it can go 'too far' and if you don't want to go so deep into a show, then just ignore them. It only goes as far as people want it to regardless of if you're a writer or reader. It doesn't harm anybody lol
 
#8
Mar 14, 3:18 AM

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I don't think it's too much, there is no reason why you can't enjoy anime and still analyze it critically.
 
#9
Mar 14, 3:22 AM

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I mean its a medium that is considered very dear to some people and it shows with the criticality of some people versus others. Its clear that people do express themselves in various ways but overall personally i believe people are now becoming to critical and over analysing anime as a whole. But hey thats my 2 cents.
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Mar 14, 4:03 AM
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It doesn't really matter. I have some friends who are very smart and understand things like directing and writing. It makes sense for them to do all the analysis stuff. As for me, I'll just watch what's fun without thinking too much about it. I watch to relax.
 
Mar 14, 4:37 AM

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as long they enjoy what they doing and not disturb others, i don't see anything wrong with it... it is entertainment medium after all...
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Mar 14, 4:41 AM

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as far as you can go. analyzing doesn't mean you're going to complain about every little thing. a lot of things are neutral elements



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Mar 14, 4:43 AM

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As much as they want. It's no big deal really and it doesn't affect my opinion. Beside,I never care about review/analysis in the first place. They are boring.
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Totally agree!

 
Mar 14, 4:49 AM

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People should criticize and analyze it just as we do with regular movies & entertainment.
 
Mar 14, 5:02 AM
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I think people tend to overthink things sometimes, When I review anime, I tend to take into account things like the animation, artwork, sound design and characters etc, but usually the biggest part towards my score of a show is how much I enjoyed it. not so much the technical aspects of it.
 
Mar 14, 5:03 AM

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If it makes them happy, go for it.
I don't give a shit, either way.

I do wish there were more reviewers that reviewed materials at face value, and didn't delve into thematic elements or other things I don't care about.

I also think the best reviewers should take a viewer like myself into account (one who simply watches for entertainment), and provide some line in their review for me, such as saying "on it's face, X anime is entertaining, has nice animation, and intriguing characters, but it's lacking substance to it's plot."

It seems like most of the highest rated anime reviewers I've seen tend to overanalyze most things they review, always looking for symbolism and themes, and considering that to be the ONE important element in a show, where without that, a show becomes completely worthless to them.

I guess all I really want from a reviewer is for them to consider all the aspects of a show and explain where they think the show succeeds and where it fails. To me, that is the mark of the best type of reviewer, I just haven't seen many of them around here.
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Mar 14, 5:15 AM

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Why should you limit that? I don't think it's necessary.
 
Mar 14, 5:18 AM

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I just finished watching the sleeping princess in the castle dragon ball movie. Although it won't get a 10/10 from me, I can still enjoy it and that's what matters to me. Critically analyze an anime? Sure go ahead because sometimes people may want to read it. At least we've been taught on how to be critical during school or college.
 
Mar 14, 5:20 AM

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So that it doesn't affect the enjoyment. And don't think things that are not really meant to be thinked about. Like ecchi animes. The only two things you should think about are how horny it makes you and how much you enjoyed it. And it usually fails on the former.
 
Mar 14, 5:25 AM
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I think when the critique starts speaking for all, as one, that is too much. I've seen and heard the general people affected too much by reviews, refer or allude to online reviews such as IMDB and especially on the rise, "professional" critiques on Rotten Tomates. I add the quotation, because if you have read some of the reviews, they are rely too much on feelings, be it towards the creators, the fanbase or just how they generalize the whole experience, because they simply couldn't bear to be more interested or entusiastic about the show itself.
Still, I can not deny what they feel about it, since it is part of their review.
But in the end I think is is still important to separate a review and a more-or-less theoretical analysis.
 
Mar 14, 5:31 AM

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People can do what they want but me myself don't really over analyze because I feel it ruins the enjoyment. I watch anime to be entertained.
 
Mar 14, 5:52 AM

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There's a few false equivalences out there that should probably be tackled. Complexity of anime =/= complexity of the analysis. Analytic or critical approach =/= lack of entertainment. Lengthy =/= complex. Rambling a lot about details =/= overanalysis.
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Mar 14, 5:57 AM

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Primarily when watching the anime I watch to enjoy it, but all it takes is noticing one flaw, then if it's a recurring flaw or if there's a few flaws in quick succession my immersion could be completely shattered. I wouldn't say I'm over-analysing, just talking about what I happen to notice.

That's not to say there's no room for looking past flaws, because I do it all the time and still enjoy the anime. In fact I'd say I'm actually pretty bad at spotting flaws, like plot holes for instance. It's just some flaws annoy me more than others and some are incredibly hard to ignore once you notice it.
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Mar 14, 6:20 AM

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None, let's not even bother talking about it anymore. Let's all just sit down quietly and enjoy the pretty girls with the large eyes.

But also, criticizing dbz for being formulaic is about the most basic criticism you could have in anything, it's something pretty much anybody who didn't grow up with it would think.
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Mar 14, 6:29 AM

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How far should it go? To infinity and beyond.
 
Mar 14, 7:02 AM

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Anime community and critical analysis? Sorry buddy, but I think that you don't know what you are even saying. I can safely assume that 90% of this community base their opinions on enjoyment, which is completely normal and "natural".

>analysing Dragon Ball
That's got to be the funniest thing I read today.
 
Mar 15, 4:13 PM

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K-On is my favorite anime series of all time, and there’s no quick answer as to why. I like to tell people it’s because the show is “dense,” which is another way of saying that I’ll be talking for two hours before I can get to the heart of the matter; but considering I’ve dedicated that much time to breaking down my least favorite anime ever, it’s probably good for my health that I do the same for my most favorite as well.

It’s difficult to simply explain the appeal of K-On, because so much of that appeal has to do with the personal relationship which the viewer forms with the show along its run. K-On is a show that progressively gets better the more of it you watch, not only in the sense that season two is a lot better than season one, but in that season one is more enjoyable if you’ve already seen the show in its entirety.

The most popular misconception about K-On is that it lacks a narrative, and that could not be further from the truth. On a moment to moment basis, K-On is mostly a comedy show about five girls and their friends having fun and cracking jokes, but there’s a very clear narrative arc across the entire series and tons of growth on the part of every character–which is all stuff that you can only appreciate by watching the series all the way through. While it may seem like one at first, K-On is NOT an episodic series–it is a sequence of events with a logical progression which reaches an eventual conclusion, and as such should be considered a cohesive work in the same way that one might consider a film or book. Following this logic, I think the best way to explain what makes the series great is to start from the beginning.
you watch.

i'd post more but would posting a huge wall of text get me banned?
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Mar 15, 4:17 PM

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^So many words and you didn't even address the significance of fun things being fun, how is this a proper K-On! analysis?
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Mar 15, 4:22 PM

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I don’t see any reason to place a limit on how far analysis can go. Analysis is subjective. People will have their own interpretations of everything. Analyzing stuff is just fun, at least for me, I mean, a big part of my enjoyment of anime comes from me analyzing it. And anyway, it contributes a lot to expanding how people look at different shows, helps to show that there’s a wealth of deeper underlying stuff to uncover in anime if you just dig a little deeper, and that enriches the experience, at least for me.
 
Mar 15, 4:26 PM

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It should follow the KISS philosophy: Keep It Simple Stupid.
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Mar 15, 4:29 PM

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I get why people do it but I’m not that type of person. I enjoy anime because I enjoy it, some I don’t enjoy because they’re boring. If people need to analyze anime to enjoy something that’s just them.
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Mar 15, 4:30 PM

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jal90 said:
^So many words and you didn't even address the significance of fun things being fun, how is this a proper K-On! analysis?


low-key shocked that someone think she's serious
 
Mar 15, 4:36 PM

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it should go as far as stating their opinions while keeping in mind the background of the anime in question. for example, saying evil or live is bad because it was not well animated is not a fault of the anime itself, since with a quick google search, one will learn that it was produced on a small budget. it's the producers fault it was not well animated, so this grievance should be directed at the production team, not the anime (of course this is one example of why someone may say the show is bad, not the sole reason). also, saying art is a problem with a show that came out in the early 1970's is hardly a valid criticism since they chose to watch something that old and knew exactly what they were getting in to. this claim is comparative to modern day works, not works that came out during that age. as long as background research is conducted to explain why certain things are they way they are, then critics can be as critical as they want.
 
Mar 15, 4:42 PM
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I don't think anime analysis is by any means a bad thing, I also don't mind if being quite extreme. I love seeing and hearing perspectives I would've never thought about or even give me new found appreciation for a series I may have felt luke warm on all together.

And pointing out that yes Dragon Ball is simple isn't necessary a detriment to the series, it's quite obviously simple but you can still find enjoyment in it. I know I did. And just because someone points out flaws in a work or certain parts of a series not landing particular elements on par doesn't take away from it unless you let it.

I think there is a fine balance of being open minded and being swayed by someones view point.

Dlwuik said:
K-On is my favorite anime series of all time, and there’s no quick answer as to why. I like to tell people it’s because the show is “dense,” which is another way of saying that I’ll be talking for two hours before I can get to the heart of the matter; but considering I’ve dedicated that much time to breaking down my least favorite anime ever, it’s probably good for my health that I do the same for my most favorite as well.

It’s difficult to simply explain the appeal of K-On, because so much of that appeal has to do with the personal relationship which the viewer forms with the show along its run. K-On is a show that progressively gets better the more of it you watch, not only in the sense that season two is a lot better than season one, but in that season one is more enjoyable if you’ve already seen the show in its entirety.

The most popular misconception about K-On is that it lacks a narrative, and that could not be further from the truth. On a moment to moment basis, K-On is mostly a comedy show about five girls and their friends having fun and cracking jokes, but there’s a very clear narrative arc across the entire series and tons of growth on the part of every character–which is all stuff that you can only appreciate by watching the series all the way through. While it may seem like one at first, K-On is NOT an episodic series–it is a sequence of events with a logical progression which reaches an eventual conclusion, and as such should be considered a cohesive work in the same way that one might consider a film or book. Following this logic, I think the best way to explain what makes the series great is to start from the beginning.
you watch.

i'd post more but would posting a huge wall of text get me banned?


You can just link Digibros Loving Thesis on K-ON and call it a day.


Ιͺꜰ α΄›Κœα΄‡ ᴛᴑᴏ ᴏꜰ ʏᴏᴜ α΄„α΄€Ι΄ ʀᴇᴄᴏɒɴΙͺᴒᴇ α΄‡α΄€α΄„Κœ α΄α΄›Κœα΄‡Κ€ α΄€Ι΄α΄… Κœα΄Ι΄α΄‡κœ±α΄›ΚŸΚ Κ€α΄€Ιͺκœ±α΄‡ α΄‡α΄€α΄„Κœ α΄α΄›Κœα΄‡Κ€ ᴜᴘ
ʏᴏᴜ α΄„α΄€Ι΄ ʙᴇᴄᴏᴍᴇ α΄›Κœα΄‡ Κ™α΄‡κœ±α΄› Κœα΄‡Κ€α΄α΄‡κœ±, ᴑʜᴏ Κ™α΄α΄›Κœ α΄‘ΙͺΙ΄ α΄€Ι΄α΄… Κ€α΄‡κœ±α΄„α΄œα΄‡.


 
Mar 15, 4:43 PM

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Stripes said:
I don't think anime analysis is by any means a bad thing, I also don't mind if being quite extreme. I love seeing and hearing perspectives I would've never thought about or even give me new found appreciation for a series I may have felt luke warm on all together.

And pointing out that yes Dragon Ball is simple isn't necessary a detriment to the series, it's quite obviously simple but you can still find enjoyment in it. I know I did. And just because someone points out flaws in a work or certain parts of a series not landing particular elements on par doesn't take away from it unless you let it.

I think there is a fine balance of being open minded and being swayed by someones view point.

Dlwuik said:
K-On is my favorite anime series of all time, and there’s no quick answer as to why. I like to tell people it’s because the show is “dense,” which is another way of saying that I’ll be talking for two hours before I can get to the heart of the matter; but considering I’ve dedicated that much time to breaking down my least favorite anime ever, it’s probably good for my health that I do the same for my most favorite as well.

It’s difficult to simply explain the appeal of K-On, because so much of that appeal has to do with the personal relationship which the viewer forms with the show along its run. K-On is a show that progressively gets better the more of it you watch, not only in the sense that season two is a lot better than season one, but in that season one is more enjoyable if you’ve already seen the show in its entirety.

The most popular misconception about K-On is that it lacks a narrative, and that could not be further from the truth. On a moment to moment basis, K-On is mostly a comedy show about five girls and their friends having fun and cracking jokes, but there’s a very clear narrative arc across the entire series and tons of growth on the part of every character–which is all stuff that you can only appreciate by watching the series all the way through. While it may seem like one at first, K-On is NOT an episodic series–it is a sequence of events with a logical progression which reaches an eventual conclusion, and as such should be considered a cohesive work in the same way that one might consider a film or book. Following this logic, I think the best way to explain what makes the series great is to start from the beginning.
you watch.

i'd post more but would posting a huge wall of text get me banned?


You can just link Digibros Loving Thesis on K-ON and call it a day.


k-on is an anime with deep symbolism rivaling the works of hideaki anno
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Mar 15, 8:43 PM

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The whole point of art is that it's a representation of real life. If you are not critiquing or analyzing what you watch then you are just watching mindless and IMO, wasting your time.

Being able to analyze an anime allows you to really develop your own voice in your taste and more importantly allows you to take away something that you can apply to your life.

I remember watching Your Lie In April. I did take away from the first watch things about being an artist that I applied to myself as an actor and filmmaker. It made me get back into music and that has been amazing. But, the second time that I watched it I grew just enough to see how it was a story about death, rebirth and healing childhood wounds. It made me get serious about doing that for myself and honestly changed the whole course of my life for the better.

I can say the same thing about Evangelion. Both times I watched it I took away a lot about what it is to feel isolated for people, the pain of being in relationships and looked at how it applied to me.

The people who say that anime is over analyzed are IMO shallow people who hate themselves and watch mindless. Those people don't get far in life.
 
Mar 15, 8:46 PM

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EmperorWeird said:
I'm assuming everyone here has either seen or been one of those people that critically analyze anime, criticize tropes, etc. When does analyze anime, which is supposed to be a medium of entertainment, go too far? I believe that the anime community has become so obsessed with subverting anime tropes, that it gets in the way of enjoying the medium. Is analyzing Dragon Ball and criticizing it for its "simplistic formula" an indication that we've gone too far?

TL;DR - I believe that the anime community has become so obsessed with subverting anime tropes, that it gets in the way of enjoying the medium.
I don't think being obsessed with subverting tropes is a sign of "going too far" with critical analysis. Rather, it's more of a symptom (or presentation) of watching too much anime, too quickly, so that one doesn't really properly appreciate the subtleties of each story but instead lets stuff run together, which causes one to desire something more novel or shocking or otherwise trope-subverting in order to get the same thrill.
 
Mar 15, 8:48 PM

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as far as it's able to go. with some many people there are many perspectives the an anime can be viewed, and it becomes interesting to see how others view and interpret the same show
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Mar 16, 1:42 AM

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Analysing anime is part of the enjoyment.
 
Mar 16, 3:06 AM

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Aslt said:
Anime community and critical analysis? Sorry buddy, but I think that you don't know what you are even saying. I can safely assume that 90% of this community base their opinions on enjoyment, which is completely normal and "natural".

>analysing Dragon Ball
That's got to be the funniest thing I read today.


It happens and I just shake my head because it's like why are you analyzing a shonen, especially DBZ, yeah it's not a great anime in terms of story, but I still enjoy it in a sentimental way, and I get shit every day by elitist scum, telling me "You would have to be retarded to enjoy DBZ, even in a sentimental sense"
 
Mar 16, 3:13 AM

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Way less far than most people take it. It is super annoying to me when people try to judge anime through a western lens (lgbt issues, feminism/gender stereotypes).
 
Mar 16, 3:51 AM

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StarSwoardsman said:
The whole point of art is that it's a representation of real life.


Complete disagreement. The only limitation on art is the artist. The point of his art is for him only to decide.
 
Mar 16, 6:19 AM

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Hanamuke said:
StarSwoardsman said:
The whole point of art is that it's a representation of real life.


Complete disagreement. The only limitation on art is the artist. The point of his art is for him only to decide.

Yeah, that doesn't even make any sense at all. The artist uses his or her own life to create their art. Unless that artist is just shit. But, if their making shit, then why watch it? And even then, there are takeaways that you can get from shit art.

I suppose it depends on why you are watching something. Do you just want an escape? Or, do you want to be able to watching something that can add to your life? I'm pretty picky with what I watch be it anime, a live action movie or show or whatever. I want to watch something that adds value to my life in someway, not just something that is "entertaining". Life is too short for that.
Modified by StarSwoardsman, Mar 16, 6:24 AM
 
Mar 16, 6:29 AM

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I do agree that the emphasis on things like originality and trope subversion is far too extreme with the current critical consensus of this community and it would be much appreciated if they eased off of those aspects in order to take a balanced and holistic view more often. Even the highest ranked critics on this site can be prone to placing asinine amounts of emphasis on just that aspect, let alone the up-and-coming corps who are carving out a name for themselves, who are 10 times worse about greatly over-emphasizing that aspect in relation to every aspect that contributes to the overall quality of a work. There's a good amount of negative reviews which are critical of a series only in that regard, and only very briefly touch upon other things - a lot of the time I see them, they don't even touch upon how having these not-original aspects or tropes actually negatively impacts the series itself, just that they fuckin' exist and that's enough for them to treat it as an inherent malus. That...seems ridiculous and pretty much always hurts their credibility, at least in my eyes.

That said, that's not taking critical analysis too far, quite the opposite - the huge focus on originality and treating certain tropes as an inherent negative is just far too narrow and shallow. It doesn't go far enough to actually make their review worthwhile. It's not deep at all, it's not really digging your fingers into why something works or why doesn't, it's not dissecting things and taking it apart, it often becomes just noting the existence of tropes and then criticizing them for existing within a series. So on and so forth. It's really just surface level trite that happens to have swept over critically inclined users like a goddamn plague, which is unfortunate to say the least given that if one buys into that and articulates themselves well enough then others are likely to follow in their footsteps.

We're at the point where people are unironically making threads like "unoriginal and good or original and shit, which is better?" and that's worrisome to me. A sense of distinction and ambition is nice to have, sure, but fuck's sake.
Modified by Manaban, Mar 16, 6:35 AM
 
Mar 16, 6:36 AM

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StarSwoardsman said:
Hanamuke said:


Complete disagreement. The only limitation on art is the artist. The point of his art is for him only to decide.

Yeah, that doesn't even make any sense at all. The artist uses his or her own life to create their art. Unless that artist is just shit. But, if their making shit, then why watch it?
if it's shit I don't watch it of course. I mostly agree with the rest of your comment you know. Maybe there it's misunderstanding, I meant that reality is much less important than the way it is perceived by the artist, and by the consumer. Being unrealistic in some way can be a good way to get an emotion across the way reality cannot. That's why I consume art.
 
Mar 16, 6:43 AM

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here, i will make this bit more accurate

StarSwoardsman said:
I want to watch something that adds value to my life in someway, not just something that is "entertaining". Life is too short for that.

*teleports behind hanamuke*

nothin' personnel kid


yeesh
 
Mar 16, 6:55 AM

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I think this video belongs here.


My problem is when people overthink something whose purpose is actually quite straightforward, then get mad at others for not sharing the same off-the-walls interpretation. I mean, fiction is art, so doesn't it make logical sense that different people -- even the author -- might have entirely different ways of looking at it?

That said, I'm not inherently opposed to overthinking something. It can be quite fun, and often gives more things to talk about for a great story. It just stops being fun when you either intentionally ignore details that shoot your interpretation down, intentionally ignore qualities you would've liked just because of trivial negative details, or start treading into elitist territory about it.

Oh, and also complaints like "moeblob" and "melodramatic". I've seen the former applied to characters that have personality beyond just being moe, and the latter is actually a legitimate genre (Melodrama).


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β–‘β–’β–“β–ˆ Favorite Anime OST β–ˆβ–“β–’β–‘
β–‘β–‘β–’β–“β–ˆ Favorite Novel β–ˆβ–“β–’β–‘β–‘
β–‘β–‘β–’β–“β–ˆ Favorite Anime β–ˆβ–“β–’β–‘β–‘
 
Mar 16, 7:03 AM
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StarSwoardsman said:
Hanamuke said:


Complete disagreement. The only limitation on art is the artist. The point of his art is for him only to decide.

Yeah, that doesn't even make any sense at all. The artist uses his or her own life to create their art. Unless that artist is just shit. But, if their making shit, then why watch it? And even then, there are takeaways that you can get from shit art.

I suppose it depends on why you are watching something. Do you just want an escape? Or, do you want to be able to watching something that can add to your life? I'm pretty picky with what I watch be it anime, a live action movie or show or whatever. I want to watch something that adds value to my life in someway, not just something that is "entertaining". Life is too short for that.

what a horrible interpretation of art.
 
Mar 16, 7:05 AM

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Hanamuke said:
StarSwoardsman said:

Yeah, that doesn't even make any sense at all. The artist uses his or her own life to create their art. Unless that artist is just shit. But, if their making shit, then why watch it?
if it's shit I don't watch it of course. I mostly agree with the rest of your comment you know. Maybe there it's misunderstanding, I meant that reality is much less important than the way it is perceived by the artist, and by the consumer. Being unrealistic in some way can be a good way to get an emotion across the way reality cannot. That's why I consume art.

Oh okay. I agree with what you are saying then. It definitely doesn't need to be 100% realistic and it can be up to interpretation for sure.

Like Haruhi. There is a ton of analysis for that anime and the novels. It's hard to say if that was 100% the writer's intentions. But, it's open enough that you can interpret different meanings and get the set up of the film allows for a pretty satisfying emotional experience.

Or, Full Metal Alchemist brotherhood. While the characters are realistic, it's a fantasy. Yet, it was the first anime that I watched that made me realize that anime could actually be emotional. Science fiction can actually be more emotional than slice of slice because it's exploring humanity in a more unique and interesting way.
 
Mar 16, 7:11 AM

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It shouldn't go too far. But anime fans like to over-analyze shit. It doesn't affect my own enjoyment but I almost never read reviews.
 
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