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Director of CANAAN Struggles With 'Drop by Episode 1' Manner of Audience

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#1
Mar 25, 2010 11:07 PM

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Nikkei released an interview article with anime director Ando Masahiro. He pointed out a recent trend that the audience of anime programs tend to drop a series by the impression of the first episode. In order to reach these audience, he intentionally put excessive descriptions of the characters and the scenes.

Ando said "It's challenging to let people just watch a series. ... Nowadays, young people are surrounded by abundant amusements. They can spare time only for a couple of series. That's why most of the series are dropped only by the impression of episode 1." "It was surprising to know that the audience want a clear presentation of 'What this anime is about' in the first episode." "Super-high density and pace of the story is one of the ideas. I'm still seeking the solution to appeal to such people effectively."

Source: Nikkei BP

Akai Toshifumi (the general graphic director of "Sora no Woto") reacted to the opinions on the internet that
People won't be moved nor consented unless someone dies. Why aren't they impressed by the character's survival? It'll be an easy job to create a war anime from now on. You can make a popular anime by letting the characters kill each other!

Source: Akai's blog
Modified by dtshyk, Mar 25, 2010 11:47 PM
 
#2
Mar 25, 2010 11:20 PM

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I wish I dropped Canaan at episode 1...
 
#3
Mar 25, 2010 11:22 PM

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dtshyk said:

Ando said "It's challenging to let people just watch a series. ... Nowadays, young people are surrounded by abundant amusements. They can spare time only for a couple of series. That's why most of the series are dropped only by the impression of episode 1." "It was surprising to know that the audience want a clear presentation of 'What this anime is about' in the first episode." "Super-high density and pace of the story is one of the ideas. I'm still seeking the solution to appeal to such people effectively."



Of course, unless people have nothing to do, how could you expect them to continue watching any anime that could be oh-so-crappy? Younger viewers have homework and studying, older viewers have work to do. Glad he figured it out now.
 
#4
Mar 25, 2010 11:25 PM

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dtshyk said:
"I'm still seeking the solution to appeal to such people effectively."


Boobs


 
#5
Mar 25, 2010 11:27 PM

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Oh well, it depends. Some people give stuff chances while some don't.

ReaperEXE said:
I wish I dropped Canaan at episode 1...


I actually really liked it.
 
#6
Mar 25, 2010 11:31 PM

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#7
Mar 25, 2010 11:40 PM

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Cannan was pretty decent overall. Episode one was pretty explosive, and its true the later episodes lost some synergy, but overall it was still a fun watch.

His statement is pretty true though. Unless I can see potential for more development I usually won't stick around unless the episode grabs my attention.
 
#8
Mar 25, 2010 11:59 PM

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no wonder the 1st episode more kickass than the final episode

CANAAN for me is epic though.

runb4 everybody bemoans bout plothole and etc.
 
#9
Mar 26, 2010 12:09 AM

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dtshyk said:
Akai Toshifumi (the general graphic director of "Sora no Woto") reacted to the opinions on the internet that
People won't be moved nor consented unless someone dies. Why aren't they impressed by the character's survival? It'll be an easy job to create a war anime from now on. You can make a popular anime by letting the characters kill each other!

Source: Akai's blog
This made me laugh.

I mean, Sora no woto is just no excuse.
 
Mar 26, 2010 12:22 AM

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usually I give a series until the third episode before I completely drop it, but the importance of pilot episodes is obvious.

Akai Toshifumi said:
You can make a popular anime by letting the characters kill each other!

that's certainly true, and actually I'd really prefer to see more characters meeting violent demises... Maybe I'm just getting too distracted by the comedies and moeblobs lately, but story writers seem too hesitant to kill people off nowadays even in the fighting genres. Katanagatari is perhaps an experiment on this idea... where you build and kill a character every episode. Understandably that really cuts off your character development (lol!)... but it works here because you have enough time to get to know them before the eventual demise.

I think the main thing plaguing popularity is just a lack of originality -- when you're reusing the same ideas as the twenty related shows that came before you, it's hard to get attention without something frighteningly dramatic. Most shows have the same old stuff with one original spin on it... and once it's recognized, the show becomes easy to dismiss. Striking the right balance between familiarity (the stuff you already love) and originality (the stuff that makes you watch) is the key. Regretfully, the bias is toward the familiar uninteresting shows since the studios know they're easier to produce and have guaranteed profits (however mediocre).
 
Mar 26, 2010 12:24 AM

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I only drop things after the 3rd episode (though I dropped Dance in the Vampire Bnd after only two), exactly because you can never be sure after only one episode.

As for CANAAN, I sure liked the first ep, but can we please get a non-cliché non-sucky ending? >:

As for killing characters... it sure has impact, but only if you do it well (see Cross Game ep 1)! If the audience doesn't feel for the character, then it doesn't matter if he/she dies or not. And yes, sudden death is always surprising, so rather than characters killing each other, it should be an accident, for which none of the other characters was prepared.
 
Mar 26, 2010 12:34 AM

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I think the phrase, "patience is a virtue" comes to mind.

What happened to researching things first before taking the plunge? Reading reviews, see how word of mouth is going, researching the staff and studio, previewing the source material? You know, what most people do before starting a show. Or taking the plunge for ANYTHING for that matter. I'm sure no one buys a car just because it piqued their curiosity and ended up selling it after 50 miles because it wasn't to their liking.

Wasn't it our jobs as consumers to make informed decisions about what we buy? In this case, what shows we choose to devote our time to? Maybe that's just my personal maxim, but as my general philosophy, if I took the time to start a show, I'm going to see it through to the end for better or worse. Dropping after one episode is something I wouldn't dream of doing.

But yes, I can see how people value their time far more preciously so that first episode is particularly important. That's still no excuse for not reading up ahead of time.
 
Mar 26, 2010 12:47 AM

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@ serphjei
I mostly agree with you, but these days there are several shows when researching it, won't help you a thing. Like no one really knew what Sora no Woto will be about, since it was an original work in teh Anime no Chikara project... or reasearching Dance in the Vampire Bund didn't do any good either, cos the anime is really, really different from the manga, and even though it seemed I will like it (since it's done by one of my fav studios), it still failed me.

But yeah, dropping after one episode is bad. Especially if you drop and rate after only one episode. Yes Mathes, I'm looking at you! >_>
 
Mar 26, 2010 12:59 AM

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ReaperEXE said:
I wish I dropped Canaan at episode 1...


I concur, by the time you know it's actually pretty average the plot already drawn you in

@Suny

I reckon it's better not to add the anime at all. I mean, don't distort the MAL system like that XP (though i think they already took it into considerations)
 
Mar 26, 2010 1:02 AM

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@ Vin-nii
I only add the anime cos I have MALUpdater to check for new torrents, since I'm lazy :P But I delete things from my drop list from time to time.
 
Mar 26, 2010 1:50 AM

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I'm in the news section, but I feel like I'm in the anime section.

Old avatar and sig retired for now.
 
Mar 26, 2010 1:57 AM

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"I'm still seeking the solution to appeal to such people effectively."

Write something intelligent and without generic ass characters and designs..and get back to me.
Something cool to be placed here in the near future.
 
Mar 26, 2010 2:14 AM

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"People won't be moved nor consented unless someone dies."

I actually agree with Akai Toshifumi to a certain point only... if a character dies in a magnificient fight against an enemy or sacrifices himself for the better good, I would agree... BUT if the characters just keep dying pointlessly, hell if I can watch something with little character deveplopment...
BADGES
 
Mar 26, 2010 3:14 AM

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I give chance to every series I watch. Err...sometimes I watch it till the end evein if it sucks, hoping that it would have an epic ending.

 
Mar 26, 2010 3:18 AM
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Hey guys, how about that "Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya"?

That first episode was weird, I'm not giving the rest a shot.
Looks like the worst series of the season.

*cough*
 
Mar 26, 2010 3:47 AM

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Ironic, coming from director of quite lackluster series with a very good first episode. He has some point with amount of series watch season but when you exclude fanservice ones, there's not much to choose from. I call bullshit, same as quote from Sora no Woto staff member.


"There is a road in the hearts of all of us, hidden and seldom traveled,
which leads to an unknown, secret place."
 
Mar 26, 2010 3:52 AM

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People won't be moved nor consented unless someone dies. Why aren't they impressed by the character's survival? It'll be an easy job to create a war anime from now on. You can make a popular anime by letting the characters kill each other!

Well, first of all, not enough people dying wasn't really the main complaint against Sora no Woto.

But second, I totally agree with this. It seems if there's any violence whatsoever, somebody must die or else there's a lot of anger against the show. I mean, when it comes to any show, let's ignore the character development or plot setting. Unless someone dies, it gets looked down upon. I really am tired of that mentality.

Third, I don't think an anime where people just kill each other would be that popular if you didn't include any development whatsoever.
 
Mar 26, 2010 3:55 AM

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Mr. Ando should rather explain to me what sort of deal the production company got with our anime label to release CANAAN on DVD without any subtitles...



 
Mar 26, 2010 4:32 AM

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ReaperEXE said:
I wish I dropped Canaan at episode 1...


same,,,,,,,,

but ya know we need some sick horror animes/more seinen >.> soooooo sick of generic fanservice animes and crude adaptions of manga and eroge i wish some anime directors would read these posts

I signed my screen and now its all smeary "When you meet your God tell him to leave me alone."

check out my bloghttp://corpse69.wordpress.com/

fix MAL already
 
Mar 26, 2010 5:40 AM
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Basically this is a lament from the writers and the producers not to blame them if anime continually is made to impress the audience rather than just be itself as an art form. Because it's all about the market these days. I remember when anime had time to be languid and took its time to develop everything. We live in an ADD generation, which is one of the reasons why anime have dipped from 26 episodes to 13 and now its falling even lower to 11. Very soon an entire series will be 6 1/2 episodes long.

It's also why books are much shorter too.
 
Mar 26, 2010 5:56 AM

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tehnominator said:
We live in an ADD generation, which is one of the reasons why anime have dipped from 26 episodes to 13 and now its falling even lower to 11. Very soon an entire series will be 6 1/2 episodes long.

I don't think that's true at all. Plenty of 26+ episode series are released every season.
Modified by garfield15, Mar 26, 2010 5:59 AM
 
Mar 26, 2010 5:56 AM
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tehnominator said:
Basically this is a lament from the writers and the producers not to blame them if anime continually is made to impress the audience rather than just be itself as an art form. Because it's all about the market these days. I remember when anime had time to be languid and took its time to develop everything. We live in an ADD generation, which is one of the reasons why anime have dipped from 26 episodes to 13 and now its falling even lower to 11. Very soon an entire series will be 6 1/2 episodes long.

It's also why books are much shorter too.


THIS!!! Life moves so fast for people now, no one has learned how to slow down and focus on one thing. No one remembers how to enjoy the "simple things in life". I'm not saying this applies to everyone, but it does go for most people out there, in my own opinion.
I had a real signature.... but I got tired of it. What should I change it to now?
 
Mar 26, 2010 6:25 AM
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garfield15 said:
tehnominator said:
We live in an ADD generation, which is one of the reasons why anime have dipped from 26 episodes to 13 and now its falling even lower to 11. Very soon an entire series will be 6 1/2 episodes long.

I don't think that's true at all. Plenty of 26+ episode series are released every season.


Really? You think so? I'd like you to scan through last year's anime seasons. Most of the series were 13 episodes long or within that range. Only largely popular titles got 26 episodes or alternatively, huge failures. I was shocked out of my mind that Erin and Cross Game got slated for more than 50 episodes that year.

Even blockbuster money-makers like K-ON! and Bakemonogatari were under the 26 episode count. And they had money to throw around, and you know that filler doesn't mean anything to Japanese producers. It just means more money. But the success of them largely has to do with their shortness. Sure, we might want them to be longer. But this side of the world doesn't matter.
 
Mar 26, 2010 7:02 AM

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I'm the type of guy who finishes everything I'ev started.

If I watch episode one of (for an example) Bleach. And I don't like it.. I won't drop it. I don't think it's good to judge a series just based on an introduction episode.

It's like most shounen manga's, the first chapter always has a fight and it end with a victory that the characters don't expect.

But when I don't like the first episode, well, I'll continue watching, if I don't like it by 5 episodes, I tend to dislike watching it, but I'll still do it.

It can takes ages for myself to finish it, for example, .Hack//SIGN, it nearly took me 5 years to finish the anime (07-10-05 till 26-02-10), why? Because I disliked it, well, more then that, I despised it. But then, I've watched Detroit Metal City in 2 days, and I also despised that series..

But as you can see, I finish everything I start.
(And things that are "dropped" on my list are only there because I don't have resources to finish it, but this only happens to manga, but once I can finish it, I will)
 
Mar 26, 2010 7:15 AM

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Is this really true?

Don't forget, this is the same day that Gintama, a 201-episode series with a horrible first episode became MAL's top-rated anime.

The fact that you have to watch 41 episodes before a vote counts plays some part in this, but that still means that the 6841 members who were eligible to cast a ranking vote on Gintama had to sit through through the first episode (which even Gintama fanatics don't like) before they discovered their idea of comedy gold.

Another example that this is untrue is Lucky Star, which had 4 horrible episodes that no one liked, but it is still ranked an average of 8.35 by 35740 users and a massive fan base to boot.

A non-comedy example is Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. Apart from the intro, the first episode could have easily been mistaken as one for an average slice-of-life show, rather than the horror it actually is. Yet, it still musters an average of 8.57 by 32837 users.
Current FAL Ranking + Previous best::
[
 
Mar 26, 2010 7:16 AM

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that shit was ok compare to some animes
 
Mar 26, 2010 7:52 AM

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dtshyk said:

Akai Toshifumi (the general graphic director of "Sora no Woto") reacted to the opinions on the internet that
People won't be moved nor consented unless someone dies. Why aren't they impressed by the character's survival? It'll be an easy job to create a war anime from now on. You can make a popular anime by letting the characters kill each other!

It's so true unfortunatelly... Reading forums people always whining about "why can't she/he die already" . It's really sad that some people only watch a series because the characters kill each other. This was the case with Sora no woto ; people was expecting blood and murder and they dropped it because there wasn't. Making a war anime doesn't have to mean killing I think.
I'm not really kind to drop a series at episode 1 (ok, there's 1 or 2). When I drop a series it's usually because there aren't and characters that I like or can symphatize with...
Modified by sayami, Mar 26, 2010 7:57 AM
 
Mar 26, 2010 8:11 AM

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Ah yeah, good laugh. This comes from the guy who directed one of the most boring 'action' series of recent years (not to mention many other flaws).
And wow, Akai don't understand why people are surprised nobody dies in a war anime? When instead of well... war they get ridiculous plot and little girls... Yeah that explains a lot.
Ii tenki desu ne...
 
Mar 26, 2010 8:16 AM

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I usually watch the first three or four episodes of a show before I decide if I'm going to contiue watching it or not.
 
Mar 26, 2010 8:30 AM

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i watch the first couple episodes and even if its not very good i end up finishing it eventually.

 
Mar 26, 2010 8:46 AM

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Kikimaru said:
Hey guys, how about that "Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya"?

That first episode was weird, I'm not giving the rest a shot.
Looks like the worst series of the season.

*cough*


Haruhi Suzumiya is one of Japan's most popular anime series in 2006.
The 2009 ver. was mostly the worst series, but the DVD sales are still powerful.
In the first season, it explains how
. Also, I don't know why you think the first episode is weird, but its still your opinion...
 
Mar 26, 2010 8:54 AM

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I hated Canaan...



Join my club: The Walking Dead
 
Mar 26, 2010 8:58 AM

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I agree with mista Ando. It's just 20 minutes per episode, what are you losing? Precious 20 minutes that won't come back?
 
Mar 26, 2010 9:00 AM

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I watch everything usually no matter how bad it is, I always watch more than one episode. I drop it when I hit 20 or so and it really seems to be getting nowhere/worse.
 
Mar 26, 2010 9:12 AM

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ReaperEXE said:
I wish I dropped Canaan at episode 1...
 
Mar 26, 2010 9:26 AM

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Most people have the attention span of an ADD goldfish so its not really surprising.
 
Mar 26, 2010 9:46 AM

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CANAAN was pretty good I thought. Usually I don't care for gun and bullet anime titles, but I was able to complete the series, which says a lot for me. Although I sometimes tend to watch a series (even a bad one) hoping it has a good ending in the least.
 
Mar 26, 2010 10:01 AM

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AlexSadist-sama said:
Oh well, it depends. Some people give stuff chances while some don't.

ReaperEXE said:
I wish I dropped Canaan at episode 1...


I actually really liked it.
I did like episode 1, but didn't continue after that BECAUSE of what SatoriTokku said. I have only so mucht time in a day so I select certain animes to watch. It was nothing against Cannan. There was enough in it to keep me interested but not interested it enough.
What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

 
Mar 26, 2010 10:24 AM

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Just for the record, I would love to watch an anime full of bloodbaths.

But really, I don't think it's completely unreasonable to drop a series from the first episode. I mean, if the series is good, it's sure to catch one's attention right from the start. It doesn't have to be over the top spectacular, but it should have something, whether it's the story itself, or an interesting character, something that piques interest in viewers. Otherwise it's likely to be some mediocre piece of crap. If it can't prove that it's not completely terrible in the first episode, then I don't want any part of it.

Of course there are exceptions, but the first episode of an anime really sets the bar for the remaining episodes. It's the same with with normal tv shows, and movies even. You wouldn't go see the sequel if you hated the original. most likely
 
Mar 26, 2010 10:41 AM

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Actually I sometimes experience the opposite of dropping an anime after 1 episode.

Sometimes the first episode is the best episode, and the rest of the series either tanks or is not so great.

Here are some examples (all anime of course):

Maria Holic
Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu
Ichigo 100%

and the best example.... The Melencholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (2009)
 
Mar 26, 2010 11:30 AM

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I never drop an anime at episode 1 unless it's less than 9 epsidoes long. I always wait until episode 2 before i drop an anime, and I usually pick it back up again later and sometiems finish it (This is what happened with School Days)

lolita_mistrix said:
Just for the record, I would love to watch an anime full of bloodbaths.


Same. It's all moe and slice-of-life now. And hohoho another fan of Dexter >:D
 
Mar 26, 2010 11:54 AM
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dtshyk said:

People won't be moved nor consented unless someone dies. Why aren't they impressed by the character's survival? It'll be an easy job to create a war anime from now on. You can make a popular anime by letting the characters kill each other!


The reason people want to see the characters die is because we know they never will and it takes the suspense out of the fight. What is the point of caring about the battle if it is always one sided. The good guys always pull through, win and never die no matter what the bad guys do. If even one good guy dies it makes it better because then there is the chance that they might actually lose.

That said I would still love to have an anime where the characters all kill each other.
 
Mar 26, 2010 12:18 PM

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Lord_Obagon said:

That said I would still love to have an anime where the characters all kill each other.


Try Higurashi no Naku koro ni, if you haven't already. That has plenty of that :3
 
Mar 26, 2010 12:22 PM

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Squirrelpaw4970 said:
Lord_Obagon said:
That said I would still love to have an anime where the characters all kill each other.
Try Higurashi no Naku koro ni, if you haven't already. That has plenty of that :3

Yet they come back to life again and again...so in that sense I don't really think it counts... though I love it <3
 
Mar 26, 2010 12:36 PM

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is that why only the first episode of canaan was awesome and everything after that dropped like an anchor in quality?
 
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