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Feb 7, 2018 1:32 PM
#1
Some Music to go along with this Topic: Text said: Ein Kranz von Bergen stolz und hoch erhoben, umringt die Heimat, mein Tiroler Land. Die Gipfel strahlen hell in ihrem Glanze, und leuchten weit von steiler Felsenwand. Du bist das Land, dem ich die Treue halte, weil du so schön bist, mein Tiroler Land! Du bist das Land, dem ich die Treue halte, weil du so schön bist, mein Tiroler Land! Ein harter Kampf hat dich entzweigeschlagen, von dir gerissen wurde Südtirol. Die Dolomiten grüßen uns von ferne, in roter Glut zum letzten Lebewohl. Du bist das Land, dem ich die Treue halte, weil du so schön bist, mein Tiroler Land! Du bist das Land, dem ich die Treue halte, weil du so schön bist, mein Tiroler Land! https://www.musixmatch.com/de/songtext/Alpenbrass-Tirol-2/Dem-Land-Tirol-die-Treue Translation said: A Wreath/Ring of Mountains, pride and high exalted, surrounds the Homeland, my Tyrolean Land. The Peaks shine brightly in their Radiance, and gleam far of steep Rock Wall (Rock Face). You are the Land, to which I keep my Loyalty/Faithfulness, because you are so beautiful, my Trolean Land! You are the Land, to which I keep my Loyalty/Faithfulness, because you are so beautiful, my Trolean Land! A hard Fight has broken you asunder, from thee torn apart was South Tyrol. The Dolomits greet us from the Distance, in red Glow for the last Farewell. You are the Land, to which I keep my Loyalty/Faithfulness, because you are so beautiful, my Trolean Land! You are the Land, to which I keep my Loyalty/Faithfulness, because you are so beautiful, my Trolean Land! Does Loyalty or respectively: Faithfulness have a Limit for you or do you have some sort of "blind" Faithfulness/Loyalty till Death like the "Nibelungentreue" or even further than that? What do you think of the Concept of Loyalty and Faithfulness in General? By the Way, this Topic isn't only about romantic Love and you can also be loyal/faithful to your Beliefs. Also, do you believe in absolute Loyalty/Faithfulness? What makes you loyal/faithful to someone or something and is it forever or does it depend on the Circumstances? Do you stay true to your Beliefs and/or your Character? edit: Sources: duden.de, wiktionary.org, etymonline.com, dwds.de |
NoboruJul 24, 2019 1:30 AM
Feb 7, 2018 1:35 PM
#2
Dont know why but i'm getting Shiroyama vibes here. |
Feb 7, 2018 1:49 PM
#3
Swagernator said: Are you referring to the Battle of Shiroyama?Dont know why but i'm getting Shiroyama vibes here. If not, what else do you mean with this "white Mountain"? |
Feb 7, 2018 1:51 PM
#4
Noboru said: Swagernator said: Are you referring to the Battle of Shiroyama?Dont know why but i'm getting Shiroyama vibes here. If not, what else do you mean with this "white Mountain"? I was referring to Battle of Shiroyama, the first thing that usually comes to my mind when someone mention loyalty. |
Feb 7, 2018 1:59 PM
#5
Swagernator said: It isn't the first Thing for me. "Nibelungentreue" (Loyalty of the Nibelungs) is sth. that would come for me to mind, first. But it's an interesting Question what exactly comes to your Mind first and why. Noboru said: Swagernator said: Dont know why but i'm getting Shiroyama vibes here. If not, what else do you mean with this "white Mountain"? I was referring to Battle of Shiroyama, the first thing that usually comes to my mind when someone mention loyalty. Just to be sure, but are you Japanese or respectively: do you have any deep Connections to the Japanese Culture? If you aren't Japanese and/or have another Culture: how is Loyalty/Faithfulness treated in your Ethnicity? Do you have any Stories with those Themes? edit: and also forgot to explicitly ask, but why did you think of the Battle of Shiroyama, first? |
Feb 7, 2018 2:00 PM
#6
Swagernator said: Noboru said: Swagernator said: Dont know why but i'm getting Shiroyama vibes here. If not, what else do you mean with this "white Mountain"? I was referring to Battle of Shiroyama, the first thing that usually comes to my mind when someone mention loyalty. I’m related to some one that fought in it. |
Feb 7, 2018 9:45 PM
#7
Macewindex said: Are you also related to Swagernator or why do you answer for him? Sounds cool. Did you trace your Ancestors or is it a Story about Loyalty being told in your Family, since you're "related to some one that fought in it"?Swagernator said: Noboru said: Swagernator said: Are you referring to the Battle of Shiroyama?Dont know why but i'm getting Shiroyama vibes here. If not, what else do you mean with this "white Mountain"? I was referring to Battle of Shiroyama, the first thing that usually comes to my mind when someone mention loyalty. I’m related to some one that fought in it. |
Feb 7, 2018 11:35 PM
#8
Feb 8, 2018 12:14 AM
#9
Loyalty and faithfulness still exists? It's 2k18 already. |
Feb 8, 2018 12:18 AM
#10
Once you have my loyalty, it would take nothing short of you being a colossal asshole and breaking me down to get me to let go. And my loyalty isn't something to be received easily. |
xx0:44 ─🔘────────────── 04:44x ◀ xxxxxxxxx ❚❚ xxxxxxxxx ►xxxx |
Feb 8, 2018 4:24 AM
#11
novelus said: So you say that Loyalty and Faithfulness is an antiquated/(out)dated Concept? If yes: why?Loyalty and faithfulness still exists? It's 2k18 already. Muuwi said: Does it depend on the Severity you've got mentally hurt and whether or not it was being done on Purpose?Once things become increasingly toxic to the point where it can damage my own mental health, I have no reason to be loyal or faithful anymore. Lunafleurette said: If I understand you correctly, you would only terminate your Loyalty/Faithfulness if someone treats you really badly. I assume that in your Case, you have already excluded involuntary Actions like someone being a real Asshole, but not knowing it. Correct me if I'm wrong here.Once you have my loyalty, it would take nothing short of you being a colossal asshole and breaking me down to get me to let go. And my loyalty isn't something to be received easily. Also, since you've mentioned that your Loyalty "isn't something to be received easily", what are the Criteria to get it? |
Feb 8, 2018 4:36 AM
#12
Noboru said: Swagernator said: Are you referring to the Battle of Shiroyama?Dont know why but i'm getting Shiroyama vibes here. If not, what else do you mean with this "white Mountain"? Shiroyama doesn't mean white mountain. 城=/=白 |
Feb 8, 2018 4:38 AM
#13
149597871 said: What else does it mean? I thought it was "Shiro" (white) + "Yama" (Mountain), but maybe there is another Kanji Combination?Noboru said: Swagernator said: Dont know why but i'm getting Shiroyama vibes here. If not, what else do you mean with this "white Mountain"? Shiroyama doesn't mean white mountain. edit: so it's "Mountain Castle" instead. Anyway, what do you think about Loyalty/Faithfulness? |
NoboruFeb 8, 2018 4:42 AM
Feb 8, 2018 4:49 AM
#14
Noboru said: Macewindex said: Are you also related to Swagernator or why do you answer for him? Sounds cool. Did you trace your Ancestors or is it a Story about Loyalty being told in your Family, since you're "related to some one that fought in it"?Swagernator said: Noboru said: Swagernator said: Are you referring to the Battle of Shiroyama?Dont know why but i'm getting Shiroyama vibes here. If not, what else do you mean with this "white Mountain"? I was referring to Battle of Shiroyama, the first thing that usually comes to my mind when someone mention loyalty. I’m related to some one that fought in it. It’s mostly just believing what my japanese grandmama told us, she just said we had family fighting in Japanese army since Shiroyama. |
Feb 8, 2018 5:02 AM
#15
Noboru said: novelus said: So you say that Loyalty and Faithfulness is an antiquated/(out)dated Concept? If yes: why? Loyalty and faithfulness still exists? It's 2k18 already. 2k18 was just a joke, I think that things like faithfulness and loyalty never existed to begin with. People are "often" greedy and selfish by nature, they will lie in your face for their own profit. That's just how this world works. |
Feb 8, 2018 5:03 AM
#16
Yes, it's castle + mountain. Well.. If I have to be honest, without them most things in life seem meaningless to me. But absolute/blind loyalty is something that I can't agree with either. Being loyal or faithful also requires to point out obvious mistakes and tell people when you think they are doing something wrong. you can also be loyal/faithful to your Beliefs My beliefs have changed many times over the years. You learn something new every single day, it's silly to stick to the beliefs you had when you were 18 for example and defend them at all cost even though some of them are probably wrong/immature. is it forever or does it depend on the Circumstances? faithful: "firm and not changing in your friendship with or support for a person or an organization, or in your belief in your principles" You can't switch between being faithful and unfaithful, if it isn't forever then you most likely weren't faithful from the very beginning. "I was faithful because I thought I like her but after 2 months I realized that wasn't the case so I decided to stop being faithful." - just no. Damn, it's getting late, I can't think anymore. Hope it makes some sense at least. |
Feb 8, 2018 5:42 AM
#17
Macewindex said: So does Loyalty/Faithfulness play a big Role because of your Family's History, then?It’s mostly just believing what my japanese grandmama told us, she just said we had family fighting in Japanese army since Shiroyama. novelus said: Well, I'm aware that "current Year" is often an Exaggeration. So then you think that Faithfulness and Loyalty are Illusions because People just care for their own Advantages, right? What makes you think that staying loyal/faithful can't profit someone more than being disloyal/unfaithful?2k18 was just a joke, I think that things like faithfulness and loyalty never existed to begin with. People are "often" greedy and selfish by nature, they will lie in your face for their own profit. That's just how this world works. 149597871 said: That's a fair enough Position, but absolute/blind Loyalty imho doesn't say anything about whether or not you criticize someone. It means that you still believe in someone, even if they don't heed your Criticism. Well.. If I have to be honest, without them most things in life seem meaningless to me. But absolute/blind loyalty is something that I can't agree with either. Being loyal or faithful also requires to point out obvious mistakes and tell people when you think they are doing something wrong. 149597871 said: With Beliefs, I meant more Stuff like Positions or Stances about Things which you probably would never change, like if you're a convinced Non-Smoker that you wouldn't have a Change of Mind. I'm not talking about Stuff where your Opinion can get influenced depending on the Circumstances or what used to be more appealing to you at a younger Age.My beliefs have changed many times over the years. You learn something new every single day, it's silly to stick to the beliefs you had when you were 18 for example and defend them at all cost even though some of them are probably wrong/immature. 149597871 said: Hmm, the Question that comes to Mind right now is whether or not you can differentiate between someone being faithful (or loyal) to you and someone not being that before their Betrayal.You can't switch between being faithful and unfaithful, if it isn't forever then you most likely weren't faithful from the very beginning. |
Feb 8, 2018 5:44 AM
#18
Noboru said: Lunafleurette said: If I understand you correctly, you would only terminate your Loyalty/Faithfulness if someone treats you really badly. I assume that in your Case, you have already excluded involuntary Actions like someone being a real Asshole, but not knowing it. Correct me if I'm wrong here.Once you have my loyalty, it would take nothing short of you being a colossal asshole and breaking me down to get me to let go. And my loyalty isn't something to be received easily. Also, since you've mentioned that your Loyalty "isn't something to be received easily", what are the Criteria to get it? I have an exceedingly high tolerance for abusive behavior from people up to close friends. In the past year I have been working to be free of that tolerance which at first I thought was patience. If, for example, they hurt me badly enough that it damages my self-esteem and value to a considerable degree, or makes my depression worse? That's not a healthy relationship or friendship. I don't need people to drag me down - and I'm working on that. My loyalty is achieved through a long time knowing someone and/or they have consistently proven to be supportive, someone who enriches me as a person. |
xx0:44 ─🔘────────────── 04:44x ◀ xxxxxxxxx ❚❚ xxxxxxxxx ►xxxx |
Feb 8, 2018 5:44 AM
#19
Noboru said: Macewindex said: So does Loyalty/Faithfulness play a big Role because of your Family's History, then?It’s mostly just believing what my japanese grandmama told us, she just said we had family fighting in Japanese army since Shiroyama. novelus said: Well, I'm aware that "current Year" is often an Exaggeration. So then you think that Faithfulness and Loyalty are Illusions because People just care for their own Advantages, right? What makes you think that staying loyal/faithful can't profit someone more than being disloyal/unfaithful?2k18 was just a joke, I think that things like faithfulness and loyalty never existed to begin with. People are "often" greedy and selfish by nature, they will lie in your face for their own profit. That's just how this world works. 149597871 said: That's a fair enough Position, but absolute/blind Loyalty imho doesn't say anything about whether or not you criticize someone. It means that you still believe in someone, even if they don't heed your Criticism. Well.. If I have to be honest, without them most things in life seem meaningless to me. But absolute/blind loyalty is something that I can't agree with either. Being loyal or faithful also requires to point out obvious mistakes and tell people when you think they are doing something wrong. 149597871 said: With Beliefs, I meant more Stuff like Positions or Stances about Things which you probably would never change, like if you're a convinced Non-Smoker that you wouldn't have a Change of Mind. I'm not talking about Stuff where your Opinion can get influenced depending on the Circumstances or what used to be more appealing to you at a younger Age.My beliefs have changed many times over the years. You learn something new every single day, it's silly to stick to the beliefs you had when you were 18 for example and defend them at all cost even though some of them are probably wrong/immature. You can't switch between being faithful and unfaithful, if it isn't forever then you most likely weren't faithful from the very beginning. Hmm, the Question that comes to Mind right now is whether or not you can differentiate between someone being faithful (or loyal) to you.Not that much, ever since WWII ended they left Japan and lost there loyalty to it. |
Feb 8, 2018 5:48 AM
#20
Rarusu_ said: Macewindex said: Swagernator said: Noboru said: Swagernator said: Are you referring to the Battle of Shiroyama?Dont know why but i'm getting Shiroyama vibes here. If not, what else do you mean with this "white Mountain"? I was referring to Battle of Shiroyama, the first thing that usually comes to my mind when someone mention loyalty. I’m related to some one that fought in it. Dude, the one of the most epic battles in history Ha I was just think of that song, to bad they didn’t fight on the side of the samurai. |
Feb 8, 2018 6:39 AM
#21
novelus said: Macewindex said: novelus said: 2k18 was just a joke, I think that things like faithfulness and loyalty never existed to begin with. People are "often" greedy and selfish by nature, they will lie in your face for their own profit. That's just how this world works. I don't think that being disloyal always profits you more than being loyal. For example, if there is a couple and girl is a golddigger, obviously she will be "loyal" cause she will profit of it, but is that really being loyal in common sense? I don't think so. Also, I know that I may be exaggerating saying that EVERYONE will lie in your face for their own good, but - atleast for me, that was the case in 90% of the time. That was my experience, thus I see world like that. Wait I didn’t say that, this is some blasphemy right here. |
Feb 8, 2018 6:40 AM
#22
Noboru said: novelus said: Well, I'm aware that "current Year" is often an Exaggeration. So then you think that Faithfulness and Loyalty are Illusions because People just care for their own Advantages, right? What makes you think that staying loyal/faithful can't profit someone more than being disloyal/unfaithful? 2k18 was just a joke, I think that things like faithfulness and loyalty never existed to begin with. People are "often" greedy and selfish by nature, they will lie in your face for their own profit. That's just how this world works. I don't think that being disloyal always profits you more than being loyal. For example, if there is a couple and girl is a golddigger, obviously she will be "loyal" cause she will profit of it, but is that really being loyal in common sense? I don't think so. Also, I know that I may be exaggerating saying that EVERYONE will lie in your face for their own good, but - atleast for me, that was the case in 90% of the time. That was my experience, thus I see world like that. Macewindex said: novelus said: Macewindex said: novelus said: Well, I'm aware that "current Year" is often an Exaggeration. So then you think that Faithfulness and Loyalty are Illusions because People just care for their own Advantages, right? What makes you think that staying loyal/faithful can't profit someone more than being disloyal/unfaithful? 2k18 was just a joke, I think that things like faithfulness and loyalty never existed to begin with. People are "often" greedy and selfish by nature, they will lie in your face for their own profit. That's just how this world works. I don't think that being disloyal always profits you more than being loyal. For example, if there is a couple and girl is a golddigger, obviously she will be "loyal" cause she will profit of it, but is that really being loyal in common sense? I don't think so. Also, I know that I may be exaggerating saying that EVERYONE will lie in your face for their own good, but - atleast for me, that was the case in 90% of the time. That was my experience, thus I see world like that. Wait I didn’t say that, this is some blasphemy right here. ^ i love missclicks my dude |
novelusFeb 8, 2018 6:43 AM
Feb 8, 2018 6:48 AM
#23
The only thing worth being loyal to is your 2D waifu I am loyal to Saber |
"So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." |
Feb 8, 2018 7:11 AM
#24
Noboru said: 149597871 said: That's a fair enough Position, but absolute/blind Loyalty imho doesn't say anything about whether or not you criticize someone. It means that you still believe in someone, even if they don't heed your Criticism. Well.. If I have to be honest, without them most things in life seem meaningless to me. But absolute/blind loyalty is something that I can't agree with either. Being loyal or faithful also requires to point out obvious mistakes and tell people when you think they are doing something wrong. Yes, maybe it wasn't a good example but I was talking about things like obeying orders (ex military) or if your partner forces you to do something really stupid for/with him. Disagreeing to do so doesn't necessarily mean that you are unfaithful or lack loyalty even though it goes against the definition of "absolute loyalty". Noboru said: 149597871 said: With Beliefs, I meant more Stuff like Positions or Stances about Things which you probably would never change, like if you're a convinced Non-Smoker that you wouldn't have a Change of Mind. I'm not talking about Stuff where your Opinion can get influenced depending on the Circumstances or what used to be more appealing to you at a younger Age.My beliefs have changed many times over the years. You learn something new every single day, it's silly to stick to the beliefs you had when you were 18 for example and defend them at all cost even though some of them are probably wrong/immature. Smoking is a good example but so many other things have changed for me and other people I know it's really hard to say. And it really depends on what those stances are! Noboru said: 149597871 said: Hmm, the Question that comes to Mind right now is whether or not you can differentiate between someone being faithful (or loyal) to you and someone not being that before their Betrayal.You can't switch between being faithful and unfaithful, if it isn't forever then you most likely weren't faithful from the very beginning. If only I knew the answer to that question..... Even though there are probably some things that indicate it, maybe a mistake or betrayal should happen at some point in order for you to realize. A faithful person makes mistakes as well (since nobody is perfect) but he reacts to them in a completely different way than someone who doesn't really care about you. Meh, I'm not very helpful but that's perfectly normal, I lack the personal experience/wisdom for that kind of conversation. Also 12:10 AM Noboru said: Btw.: I thought, you would only live 1h away, at least based from your Information on your Profile. Well, I'm from Bulgaria, but right now I live ~9000 km East of it. Now that you've mentioned it I've just noticed that it actually says "Location". |
149597871Feb 8, 2018 7:55 AM
Feb 8, 2018 7:34 AM
#25
Lunafleurette said: Someone who is good to me is probably worthwhile to stay with. Can't say I would disagree with that, but I'd like to stay faithful/loyal out of Principle. To me, it's not a Question of whether or not someone is harming me more or more useless or harming me more than I can bear, but about wanting to give someone the absolute Certainty that no Matter what they do, I'll stand by them. Or more correctly: I wish that someone would think about me like that, because it has a soothing Ring to it, imho. Like if you're a Believer and think that God will always stay by your Side.My loyalty is achieved through a long time knowing someone and/or they have consistently proven to be supportive, someone who enriches me as a person. Macewindex said: Maybe they fled because of the Circumstances. Also, even if they stopped being loyal to their Country, it doesn't necessarily mean that they stopped being loyal to their Culture or with other Aspects.Not that much, ever since WWII ended they left Japan and lost there loyalty to it. novelus said: I wouldn't call that "loyal", I would call that "sticking around". I don't think that being disloyal always profits you more than being loyal. For example, if there is a couple and girl is a golddigger, obviously she will be "loyal" cause she will profit of it, but is that really being loyal in common sense? I don't think so. Because she'll never leave you? Do you want to end up like this Bird? 149597871 said: absolute Loyalty ≠ absolute Obedience Yes, maybe it wasn't a good example but I was talking about things like obeying orders (ex military) or if your partner forces you to do something really stupid for/with him. Disagreeing to do so doesn't necessarily mean that you are unfaithful or lack loyalty even though it goes against the definition of "absolute loyalty". 149597871 said: I agree with you here.And it really depends on what those stances are! 149597871 said: Guess in the End, it's all about being sensitive to how you are perceived by the other. If you're perceived as being good to the other Person, then it's more likely that they'll stay loyal/faithful to you, at least that's how I would think after Lunafleurette's Reply in #18.A faithful person makes mistakes as well (since nobody is perfect) but he reacts to them in a completely different way than someone who doesn't really care about you. 149597871 said: Not a Problem. This is not me asking for Advice, but rather for your Opinion and for a Discussion about what Status and what Significance Loyalty and/or Faithfulness has for you. Btw.: I thought, you would only live 1h away, at least based on your Information on your Profile. Meh, I'm not very helpful but that's perfectly normal, I lack the personal experience/wisdom for that kind of conversation. |
NoboruFeb 8, 2018 8:03 AM
Feb 8, 2018 10:07 PM
#26
I don’t like being backstabbed. Don’t backstab me. |
Feb 9, 2018 10:15 AM
#27
nicethings said: I guess being backstabbed is something pretty much no one likes to experience. But your Remark made me ponder about the following Things:I don’t like being backstabbed. Don’t backstab me. When does Disloyalty/Unfaithfulness become Backstabbing? Is there even Disloyalty/Unfaithfulness without Backstabbing? Can you even backstab someone or something and be loyal/faithful to other Aspects of the Person or respectively: the Cause? Can you be passively loyal/faithful or do you have to be actively involved in a Relationship or in something to be loyal/faithful to a Person or a Cause? If you cannot be passively: where is the Limit that you have to take so that what you do still counts as being loyal/faithful? Like for Example, if a good Friend needs Help with Renovations and you just don't feel like doing it, are you disloyal/unfaithful to your Friend for not helping him? Or if someone talks badly about your Friend or even harasses him or her in your Presence, are you disloyal/unfaithful if you don't react? |
Feb 9, 2018 10:28 AM
#28
Faith is good when it pays off, and bad when it betrays reality. If you have someone you can place your faith in and have it pay off, you are lucky indeed. |
Feb 9, 2018 10:37 AM
#29
I’m loyal to people if it’s reciprocated. In a romantic relationship, if someone is not loyal to me I see no reason to continue the relationship. If it’s friendships, I guess it’s less about being loyal to me and more about just caring about me in general, as much as I care about them. I’ve had many one sided relationships in the past and don’t really want to deal with them anymore. |
Feb 9, 2018 10:41 AM
#30
nicethings said: I don’t like being backstabbed. Don’t backstab me. *stab* *stab* aaaaaaaanyways Mr.questionman as long as nothing fishy pops up i'll trust them |
mal's CYBER raccoon CYBER boop ! from the distant year of 2026 theCYBER police are after me ! |
Feb 9, 2018 10:45 AM
#31
Thrashinuva said: Faith is Belief, but this Topic is about Faithfulness (and Loyalty). So to be faithful, do you yourself have to be full of Faith in someone or something or is it the other way around that Person or Things have to have lots of Faith in you? If the latter is true, then can Things even have Faith in you or would that mean that "faithful" can be only used between Persons? Faith is good when it pays off, and bad when it betrays reality. If you have someone you can place your faith in and have it pay off, you are lucky indeed. Assuming the former is true, if you're full of Faith in yourself, are you automatically faithful to you? |
Feb 9, 2018 11:01 AM
#32
Noboru said: I don't think being faithful has to do with anything other than your own desires, and your self control.Thrashinuva said: Faith is Belief, but this Topic is about Faithfulness (and Loyalty). So to be faithful, do you yourself have to be full of Faith in someone or something or is it the other way around that Person or Things have to have lots of Faith in you? If the latter is true, then can Things even have Faith in you or would that mean that "faithful" can be only used between Persons? Faith is good when it pays off, and bad when it betrays reality. If you have someone you can place your faith in and have it pay off, you are lucky indeed. Assuming the former is true, if you're full of Faith in yourself, are you automatically faithful to you? |
Feb 9, 2018 1:02 PM
#33
Thrashinuva said: This is so concise, I can't even extract the Information. So please help me unpack the Message with what exactly you mean by "being faithful has only to do with your own Desires and your Self-Control" (not a word-wordly Quote, but the same Sentence a bit rephrased). Noboru said: I don't think being faithful has to do with anything other than your own desires, and your self control.Thrashinuva said: Faith is good when it pays off, and bad when it betrays reality. If you have someone you can place your faith in and have it pay off, you are lucky indeed. Assuming the former is true, if you're full of Faith in yourself, are you automatically faithful to you? @_Yuna_: I see, so Loyalty is dependent on your Relationship. Well, I don't know if I would want to stay loyal to someone if I were betrayed. There's on the one Hand the Pride in that I want to stay loyal no Matter what, and on the other Hand, I don't like to be treated as disrespectful as that. So Loyalty has nothing to do with caring about others? What is Loyalty then to you? @DildoShwaggins: And did your Trust got betrayed or have you betrayed the Trust of others? @Katanna: What is Loyalty/Faithfulness to you? Is Commitment a Requirement or is Loyalty a Requirement for Commitment? |
Feb 9, 2018 1:09 PM
#34
Noboru said: @DildoShwaggins: And did your Trust got betrayed or have you betrayed the Trust of others? the former i don't let any past experiences change the way i treat other people tho |
mal's CYBER raccoon CYBER boop ! from the distant year of 2026 theCYBER police are after me ! |
Feb 9, 2018 1:40 PM
#35
DildoShwaggins said: And does it include the People that betrayed you? More concretely: would you agree with _Yuna_'s Position one Posting above your first one?Noboru said: @DildoShwaggins: And did your Trust got betrayed or have you betrayed the Trust of others? the former i don't let any past experiences change the way i treat other people tho |
Feb 9, 2018 1:45 PM
#36
Noboru said: DildoShwaggins said: And does it include the People that betrayed you? More concretely: would you agree with _Yuna_'s Position one Posting above your first one?Noboru said: @DildoShwaggins: And did your Trust got betrayed or have you betrayed the Trust of others? the former i don't let any past experiences change the way i treat other people tho for the most part yeah, except the first part about only being loyal if it's reciprocated, i think that'd only lead to more trouble |
mal's CYBER raccoon CYBER boop ! from the distant year of 2026 theCYBER police are after me ! |
Feb 9, 2018 3:44 PM
#37
Noboru said: @_Yuna_: I see, so Loyalty is dependent on your Relationship. Well, I don't know if I would want to stay loyal to someone if I were betrayed. There's on the one Hand the Pride in that I want to stay loyal no Matter what, and on the other Hand, I don't like to be treated as disrespectful as that. So Loyalty has nothing to do with caring about others? What is Loyalty then to you? I think loyalty can be related to caring about others, but not always. You can be loyal to your boss/company because of a sense of duty. Being loyal to your friends to me means you’ll always have their back, but of course if your friends do something you don’t agree with you won’t want to support them. So it’s more complicated with friendships. Loyalty in romantic relationships is obviously staying exclusive to your partner. I can understand the pride in wanting to stay loyal until the end, I just don’t have that. If someone is not loyal to me I have no need to be loyal to them. |
Feb 9, 2018 4:42 PM
#38
Katanna said: What would happen, if an Ex-Partner of yours wanted to go back to you while you would be in a Love Relationship with someone else, even if that Person continued to cheat on you? To whom would your Loyalty/Faithfulness go in such a Situation?Loyalty commitment and being faithful go hand in hand With me I am all of the above and when I enter any type of relationship I'm in it 100% I'm currently involved in a relationship were the other party is none of the Above and show's no remorse DildoShwaggins said: Why do you think so?for the most part yeah, except the first part about only being loyal if it's reciprocated, i think that'd only lead to more trouble @_Yuna_: I think that I would fall mostly in the Category of staying loyal/faithful because of a Sense of Duty and a Sense of Pride and most important of all: because I wish to be treated like that. Loyalty to a Workplace can have an additional Background, like if the Working Conditions and the Payment is good enough, then I simply see no Reasons to switch it. With Friends, I'm not sure whether Loyalty really includes just agreeing with everything they do. I can agree to staying exclusively to your Partner being an important Criterion of Loyalty in romantic Relationships. Your last Sentence "If someone is not loyal to me I have no need to be loyal to them" contrasts strongly with DildoShwaggins' Remark two Posts above yours, so I would like to see both Positions more in Detail. |
Feb 9, 2018 7:14 PM
#39
@Noboru I think Dildoshwaggins has a perfectly reasonable stance. I have just been used many times in the past so I don’t hand out my loyalty lightly. If I see that my loyalty is not being reciprocated, I’d rather spend my time with other people. I get that can be kind of hardass but it’s just the way I operate now days, to avoid a repeat of past relationships. |
Feb 9, 2018 7:41 PM
#40
"Faith" is a very experiential quality of human experience. To me it's intimately tied with having a will. I don't even mean religion... I basically mean faith in oneself and just whatever happens to be the higher power that you align with. Some people put their faith in law and order, you know? Even though those guys do say 'in God we trust.' But for me it's a personal knowing that becomes so internalized that, though it may be shaken, you'd never in your right mind question it. You'd just as soon question your birth name as question your faith, it's just that powerful. Am I loyal to any individual though? Nope, no way, I have no master. |
I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
Feb 10, 2018 2:32 AM
#41
@Katanna: So you stop being loyal/faithful once the Relationship has been terminated or already when you get betrayed? And what would happen if you were in no other Commitment and an Ex-Partner would want you back? @_Yuna_: I can somewhat understand both of your Positions here, but I can't really put it myself into Words, which is why I've asked. If I had that much negative Experience, I probably would also be more hesitant in giving my Loyalty/Faithfulness to another Person. But for now, I don't want any Relationship to be like an Eye for an Eye. @Gan_water: I see, so Faithfulness does have to do with Faith and it's about the unwavering Belief in someone or something. Also interesting that you describe it as a knowing. So it's that strong of a Belief like saying 1+1 = 2, which barely anyone can seriously question. Is Loyalty for you having one Higher-Up or can Loyalty in your Opinion also be towards People of the same or respectively: a lower Rank/Position? |
Feb 10, 2018 7:30 AM
#42
Noboru said: I find it romantic(be it for someone or for your beliefs/principles/cause), but at the same time find it stupid because it's risky and can easily be taken advantage of if you lower your guard, if we're talking about being loyal to someone. I guess you need to be smart on who you trust.What do you think of the Concept of Loyalty and Faithfulness in General? By the Way, this Topic isn't only about romantic Love and you can also be loyal/faithful to your Beliefs. Noboru said: If “absolute loyalty” you mean is anything akin to religious obedience....Totally surrendering everything and anything for a cause you believe in, I do, somewhat(I'm not religious, but so many died for the sake of the cause they believe in throughout history). I find reciprocation to be a necessary prerequisite in loyalty in the context of relationships but not in beliefs. Although I can see that the line can be blurred but personally I won't be able to stand it if my loyalty goes unappreciated.Also, do you believe in absolute Loyalty/Faithfulness? Noboru said: If I like the person, and he/she respects me, I'll return the favour. It's conditional and it was conditional before the relationship was even established. In regards to beliefs, the content of what you believe in can't change but your views can. The “religious obedience” in the previous paragraph doesn't have to be dogma, but if it is dogma, then you're more of a slave than a loyal individual.What makes you loyal/faithful to someone or something and is it forever or does it depend on the Circumstances? |
incisorr said: i love it when people start acting like some neutral almighty unbiased godly judge and they even believe their own shit, suddenly its not their thoughts and opinions anymore but the righteous justice god way, they are unbiased, non-subjective, they just are! To be honest, everyone is like this quite often, me included, but i don't forget myself and i still post a lot of personal shit which is what forums are made for , if they didn't want us to have our own style and posts it would be an article instead a forum thread. |
Feb 10, 2018 7:51 AM
#43
I won't betray people/company for benefit, but I'd never hurt myself for loyalty. That's my limit of faithfulness. I'm not loyal to abstract staff like countries and ideology. |
Feb 10, 2018 4:41 PM
#44
Added some Music to the Opening Posting. @NekkoArc: The biggest Problem I'm having with this Topic is that I can't exactly translate "Treue" in English. It's like not knowing the Word for "Exactness" and describing it with Words like "Precision" and "Accuracy". Faithfulness and Loyalty describe only two possible Aspects. It does indeed have to do with Faith and Trust. Etymologically spoken, the actual Relative of "treu" (loyal/faithful/steadfast) would be "true", but that one has mostly another Function aside from maybe when you use it to convey that you stay true to something. The Word "true" is also related to "Tryst", "Trust" and "Tree" on the English Side and to "(ver)trauen" ((to) trust, (to) believe (in)), "Trauung" (Marriage) and "Trost" (Consolation) on the German Side. "Steadfast" would be actually the closest as to how I would think of "Loyalty" and "Faithfulness". I don't think of those Concepts as dogmatic or as a Form of unquestioning Obedience, not even in their absolute Form. I think of them as something firm and steady. Like how the Trees (especially Oak-Trees) used to be seen by the old Germanics (and still by the Germans, cf. the Lyrics of the second Song). As for "absolute Loyalty": I meant it more in the Direction of "steadfast" and "staying true to something/someone". I have the Image of someone standing next to me by my Side, regardless of whether they can agree with my Actions or not, just like a Tree has a firm Position. @nbyung09: I see. The Irony is that "naïve" can be translated as "treudoof", which is "treu" (loyal, faithful, steadfast; see also above) + "doof" (stupid). Very roughly explained, it describes the Characteristic of someone who is stupid for trusting others too much. I don't want to be "treudoof", so I wouldn't like to be too trusting if the other Party is harming me. What about Sports Clubs or about staying true to yourself? |
NoboruFeb 10, 2018 4:47 PM
Feb 10, 2018 4:49 PM
#45
I think commitment is the very foundation of any relationship. Definition of loyalty: the state or quality of being loyal; faithfulness to commitments or obligations. Faithful definiton: 1.strict or thorough in the performance of duty: a faithful worker. 2. true to one's word, promises, vows, etc. 3. steady in allegiance or affection; loyal; constant: faithful friends. 4. reliable, trusted, or believed. However, people usually do not stop at just trust and stuff. A lot of people want full possession over their partner's thoughts and feelings. And that even disagreeing would be disloyal. So, I would rather think of what I experience as a commitment to the things which we agreed on. Promoting a relationship of understanding but not a relationship where you walk on the other and just do whatever with no regard of empathy. I think phrasing it as a commitment means closer to both of those things. It is encompassing. And it also puts more responsibility on yourself rather than your partner. Your end of the deal is the one that matters more. 4th definition of commitment. "a pledge or promise; obligation" It is, a job, I suppose to have a relationship and a rather rewarding one. One which I promised to fulfill. It is like they say, ups and downs but never go to bed angry. But what do I know. I have only been with my man for almost 9 years. :P Married for 4 of those. |
Energetic-NovaFeb 10, 2018 4:54 PM
The anime community in a nutshell. |
Feb 10, 2018 9:38 PM
#46
@Noboru I do not watch a lot of sports, but I usually root for the the weaker team, or the team I've rooted for before. About "staying true to yourself", my personalities/values do changed by the surrounding, but in a very slow rate. I don't know if it's what you're asking but I'm not sure what this phrase means. |
Feb 11, 2018 3:55 AM
#47
Energetic-Nova said: That's not how I would imagine Loyalty or Faithfulness. The second Definition "true to one's word, promises, vows, etc." and the third one "steady in allegiance or affection; loyal, constant..." are rather what I would imagine. Also, the second Definition you've mentioned seems to be similar to the 4th Definition of Commitment with "a pledge or promise; obligation", so I can see how you would think that Commitment plays a big Role for being loyal/faithful.However, people usually do not stop at just trust and stuff. A lot of people want full possession over their partner's thoughts and feelings. And that even disagreeing would be disloyal. Congratulations btw. for having found someone you could stay loyal/faithful to for quite some time already nbyung09 said: I see; so it's not like you have one Team that you will root for forever.I do not watch a lot of sports, but I usually root for the the weaker team, or the team I've rooted for before. About "staying true to yourself", my personalities/values do changed by the surrounding, but in a very slow rate. I don't know if it's what you're asking but I'm not sure what this phrase means. Yes, I meant exactly what you said. I'm not a native English Speaker, either, so I'm not sure whether you can use the Word "true" like that. Compare it with the second Definition of Faithfulness, which Energetic-Nova had mentioned: true to one's word, promises, vows, etc. So, I basically meant "Integrity" with that. Like not changing your Convictions or what you believe in. |
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