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Poll: Devilman: Crybaby Episode 10 Discussion


Jan 7, 2018 3:59 PM
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Awesome; yes. The feels;no. It really needed to be longer and the relationship was too weak for me to care. It was decent overall.
 
Jan 7, 2018 6:04 PM

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It kind of remembers me of The End of Evangelion.

this was quite good in my opinion.
 
Jan 7, 2018 7:36 PM
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pride95 said:
It kind of remembers me of The End of Evangelion.


This is literally EoE over again. 2018 looks really good for anime with this to start off with and can't wait for Yuasa to make more stuff
Reality is an illusion
 
Jan 7, 2018 8:48 PM

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>"I want to cry for you.. but my tears has already dried up."

Damn.

>Techno song playing over war sequences

Okay, I never danced in these 10 episodes, but why not now?

>Ryo actually felt love and remorse for the first time (which wasn't shown in the manga)

You know what? This is too much.

But seriously, the pacing in this series is poor at times, yet some fucked up things persuade me to forget that and just enjoy the ride. This series will be polarizing for some people but regardless props for the heavy-R direction and new aspects for the show.

And for Masaaki Yuasa, I really hope the best for him. Guy's been slept off for almost eternity of his career.


Oh yeah, Yuasa's signature symbolism also appears in this series and I loved it so much.
 
Jan 8, 2018 2:22 AM
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Did Lilith turn everyone to orange juice again? DUMMIT
 
Jan 8, 2018 3:31 AM

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I gave it a 3/5 out of consideration of the effort. The show by itself is good, the music, the animation, the style, and the original plotlines could have worked for a Devilman world set anime, but not for an adaptation of Devilman.

This is where it gets messy. When the director introduced the central theme of "love", I couldn't help but shudder, because Devilman's main theme isn't love, it's about how horrible war is and how human stupidity leads to misery and devastation. It's a manga written during the 70s, so there's a strong antiwar message in it. Satan doesn't need to learn how to *~love~*. Satan in the manga is completely aware of love, and has no issue to admit she/he is in love with Akira for that matter (not to Akira, of course, out of pride). After the last battle, Satan realization was how she/he did to humans and acted toward them exactly how God acted and did to demons which had led to her/his rebellion on their defense - which compared Akira and Satan of the past on page:

"The strong ones think they have the right to kill the weaker ones. Forgive me, Akira. I was an idiot."

This has nothing to do with Akira's dying or her/his romantic feelings, it's about the antiwar message which was Devilman central theme. Akira's death happens after the epiphany (which is relevant for future Devilman installments because God is the main villain of the saga). All of Satan's (and Ryo's) character was completely changed, from the backstory of both of them, to make them completely unrecognizable aside of their love for Akira. Might as well call them a different character. The same goes for Akira, Miki and how Miko was replaced by some ACTUAL OC which was never in the manga who ate up the screen with her pointless storyline. At least they did have the grace to just be Miko "in name" only rather than evoking some old designs by making the characters pretty much different as happened with Akira, Miki or Ryo.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good show, but I wish I could see the characters I actually liked on screen, no their weird cousins. I feel like Yuasa wanted to tell a story set in Devilman world rather than tell Devilman antiwar story, but he was contracted to do the latter so he did a weird mix of both which might have worked for some people but didn't work that well to me.

sakerter said:
Did Lilith turn everyone to orange juice again? DUMMIT


You know Hideaki Anno was inspired by Devilman?
nokitron said:

>Ryo actually felt love and remorse for the first time (which wasn't shown in the manga)

You know what? This is too much.


Did you actually read the manga? Satan expressed remorse not just for Akira, but for everything that happened to humans and the war itself.
Modified by Thess, Jan 8, 2018 4:23 AM
 
Jan 8, 2018 5:04 AM

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Jenny went all Kill La Kill final boss there. One of my favorite characters. Not sure what I'll rate this. Pulled a Paradise Lost here by characterizing Ryo aka Satan. Entertaining, but I'd have preferred for it to end differently. Akira ;-; Worlds version 1, 2, and 3 in the final scene? Pretty good series, but most of the nudity, too much time dedicated to rap beats, and night effect where it's hard to see the fight scenes just detract from it.

Final rating from me: 9/10 for being entertaining. I liked Miki, Ryo, and Akira. Good Netflix anime. The manga sets it up for its sequel better and it's different in style though. Pretty hard to explain besides I don't mind it as an edgy anime I've watched.
Modified by Toxic_Mongoose, Jan 15, 2018 12:33 AM
 
Jan 8, 2018 5:11 AM

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Thess said:
I gave it a 3/5 out of consideration of the effort. The show by itself is good, the music, the animation, the style, and the original plotlines could have worked for a Devilman world set anime, but not for an adaptation of Devilman.

This is where it gets messy. When the director introduced the central theme of "love", I couldn't help but shudder, because Devilman's main theme isn't love, it's about how horrible war is and how human stupidity leads to misery and devastation. It's a manga written during the 70s, so there's a strong antiwar message in it. Satan doesn't need to learn how to *~love~*. Satan in the manga is completely aware of love, and has no issue to admit she/he is in love with Akira for that matter (not to Akira, of course, out of pride). After the last battle, Satan realization was how she/he did to humans and acted toward them exactly how God acted and did to demons which had led to her/his rebellion on their defense - which compared Akira and Satan of the past on page:

"The strong ones think they have the right to kill the weaker ones. Forgive me, Akira. I was an idiot."

This has nothing to do with Akira's dying or her/his romantic feelings, it's about the antiwar message which was Devilman central theme. Akira's death happens after the epiphany (which is relevant for future Devilman installments because God is the main villain of the saga). All of Satan's (and Ryo's) character was completely changed, from the backstory of both of them, to make them completely unrecognizable aside of their love for Akira. Might as well call them a different character. The same goes for Akira, Miki and how Miko was replaced by some ACTUAL OC which was never in the manga who ate up the screen with her pointless storyline. At least they did have the grace to just be Miko "in name" only rather than evoking some old designs by making the characters pretty much different as happened with Akira, Miki or Ryo.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good show, but I wish I could see the characters I actually liked on screen, no their weird cousins. I feel like Yuasa wanted to tell a story set in Devilman world rather than tell Devilman antiwar story, but he was contracted to do the latter so he did a weird mix of both which might have worked for some people but didn't work that well to me.

sakerter said:
Did Lilith turn everyone to orange juice again? DUMMIT


You know Hideaki Anno was inspired by Devilman?
nokitron said:

>Ryo actually felt love and remorse for the first time (which wasn't shown in the manga)

You know what? This is too much.


Did you actually read the manga? Satan expressed remorse not just for Akira, but for everything that happened to humans and the war itself.


Pardon me if something's wrong, but what I mean is the fragility that wasn't really shown in the manga. I couldn't really see whether Ryo wept or not until I looked carefully just now.
 
Jan 8, 2018 5:13 AM

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Toxic_Mongoose said:
Jenny went all Kill La Kill final boss there. One of my favorite characters. Not sure what I'll rate this. Pulled a Paradise Lost here by characterizing Ryo aka Satan. Entertaining, but I'd have preferred for it to end differently. Akira ;-; Worlds version 1, 2, and 3 in the final scene? Pretty good series, but most of the nudity, too much time dedicated to rap beats, and night effect where it's hard to see the fight scenes just detract from it.


Bruh, there are only 6 minutes total of rapping.
 
Jan 8, 2018 5:16 AM

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nokitron said:
Toxic_Mongoose said:
Jenny went all Kill La Kill final boss there. One of my favorite characters. Not sure what I'll rate this. Pulled a Paradise Lost here by characterizing Ryo aka Satan. Entertaining, but I'd have preferred for it to end differently. Akira ;-; Worlds version 1, 2, and 3 in the final scene? Pretty good series, but most of the nudity, too much time dedicated to rap beats, and night effect where it's hard to see the fight scenes just detract from it.


Bruh, there are only 6 minutes total of rapping.


Still got tired of it. ;p Not counting the scene where Miko was listening to that rapper guy.
 
Jan 8, 2018 5:19 AM

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Toxic_Mongoose said:
nokitron said:


Bruh, there are only 6 minutes total of rapping.


Still got tired of it. ;p Not counting the scene where Miko was listening to that rapper guy.


I counted that scene also.
 
Jan 8, 2018 5:20 AM

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Tekakurika said:
in the first episodes I didn't like that sexualized content sometimes it looked like unnecessary mild-porno scenes but later there was more and more meaning and thematic content in the whole show and it ended better than it started.


they were necessary, if it wasnt for netflix this show was impossible to make in japan. so for once accept it and dont act like a crybaby (eheh)
 
Jan 8, 2018 5:39 AM

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anemonespotte said:
Tekakurika said:
in the first episodes I didn't like that sexualized content sometimes it looked like unnecessary mild-porno scenes but later there was more and more meaning and thematic content in the whole show and it ended better than it started.


they were necessary, if it wasnt for netflix this show was impossible to make in japan. so for once accept it and dont act like a crybaby (eheh)

When did I cry? Just told my opinion
 
Jan 8, 2018 7:08 AM

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nokitron said:
Pardon me if something's wrong, but what I mean is the fragility that wasn't really shown in the manga. I couldn't really see whether Ryo wept or not until I looked carefully just now.


Ok, just saying Satan did weep and was very sad and so heartbroken that didn't care angels attacked and retook the planet which had been his/her original number one goal: keep God away from Earth. That's how devastated the events were to him/her, she/he gave up to grieve. It was different because the Satan in the show felt loss for the first time so was like a child lashing out, Satan in the manga recognized the feeling already. Because it wasn't about teaching Satan the meaning of love but Satan realizing his/her bad actions against humanity made him/her no better than God.

Modified by Thess, Jan 8, 2018 7:17 AM
 
Jan 8, 2018 7:47 AM

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Thess said:
nokitron said:
Pardon me if something's wrong, but what I mean is the fragility that wasn't really shown in the manga. I couldn't really see whether Ryo wept or not until I looked carefully just now.


Ok, just saying Satan did weep and was very sad and so heartbroken that didn't care angels attacked and retook the planet which had been his/her original number one goal: keep God away from Earth. That's how devastated the events were to him/her, she/he gave up to grieve. It was different because the Satan in the show felt loss for the first time so was like a child lashing out, Satan in the manga recognized the feeling already. Because it wasn't about teaching Satan the meaning of love but Satan realizing his/her bad actions against humanity made him/her no better than God.


Thess said:
nokitron said:
Pardon me if something's wrong, but what I mean is the fragility that wasn't really shown in the manga. I couldn't really see whether Ryo wept or not until I looked carefully just now.


Ok, just saying Satan did weep and was very sad and so heartbroken that didn't care angels attacked and retook the planet which had been his/her original number one goal: keep God away from Earth. That's how devastated the events were to him/her, she/he gave up to grieve. It was different because the Satan in the show felt loss for the first time so was like a child lashing out, Satan in the manga recognized the feeling already. Because it wasn't about teaching Satan the meaning of love but Satan realizing his/her bad actions against humanity made him/her no better than God.



Yeah, I notice the difference of Satan's intention.It almost feels like something was lost in translation, but regardless it is still well executed.

And I think should read Lady Devilman because I haven't read it (by not knowing it is actually a sequel).
 
Jan 8, 2018 9:39 AM

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nokitron said:
Yeah, I notice the difference of Satan's intention.It almost feels like something was lost in translation, but regardless it is still well executed.

And I think should read Lady Devilman because I haven't read it (by not knowing it is actually a sequel).


Anime changed to God more neutral/anti demon, than complete evil control freak supervillain of the Nagai's manga universe. Satan was only villainous in Devilman manga because she/he acted as God in a knee-jerk reaction to see the world polluted by some species that prop out nowhere after she/he and the demons fought to liberate their planet (they awoke from their slumber and found themselves with those shocking news). Still, the violence (of both sides) was unjustified and Satan regretted it immensely at the end.

Devilman Lady anime is a different story, but yeah the Devilman manga is a sequel. It's got a lot of gratuitous rape and hyperviolence, plus gets a while for you to realize it's the sequel, so be warned. Minor spoiler:

Modified by Thess, Jan 8, 2018 9:50 AM
 
Jan 8, 2018 4:20 PM
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Honestly Crybaby managed to be decent despite Masaki Yuasa and that was simply because he still got enough from the original story not to make it terrible, I liked some of his other shows but he really missed it here with Devilman ranging from the art to his script. I wonder if it was netflix that forced him with the whole gay stuff with the runners, yeah Nagai never discriminated against gays but this just felt like propaganda which makes me worried for stuff like Saint Seiya that they will be working in collaboration with Toei, I hope Toei puts a stop to them when they suggest to make Shun a lesbian and Hyoga a black guy.
What bothered me the most is that the rap, retarded amounts of sex, gaylords and track & field scenes took WAY TOO MUCH SCREENTIME that could've been used for something relevant like geee, not completely skipping 70% prior to Akira fusing with Amon or not making Ryo into a completely annoying character not talking about taking every bit of personality Akira has and making him super generic.

People will now think that Devilman is all about sex and gore now but while the original manga had gore and tits it never actually had this amount of disgusting sex like Akira cumming all over the ceiling or Sirene/random runner girl masturbating like there was no tomorrow.
Modified by E96825, Jan 8, 2018 4:24 PM
 
Jan 8, 2018 4:23 PM

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Wow that is probs the most depressing ending I have ever seen in pretty much anything it was all meaningless in the end, these are the endings I hate the most but it was not dragged out so there is that to it which makes me happy. The amount of gore and sexual content reminded me of gantz.

I guess you could call this series despair porn but I already knew that after watching episode one and the MC being a literal devil in the seinen genre never goes well, good thing it does not try and drag itself off after the biggest of tragedies. The fact I binged instead of doing work for college means I enjoyed it.

around episode 9 I did become numb to the situation, Humans looked like idiots killing themselves due to paranoia. The whole group of friends dying in episode 9 was horrible as shit but after watching this episode I am kind of glad they did not stick around as it did turn into a even worse shit show since the whole planet died.

I wish Akira death from his perspective was dragged out a bit. This last episode felt like what could have been a season two but they probably decided to go straight to the end.
 
Jan 8, 2018 4:26 PM
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Cyborg_Dragon said:
Wow that is probs the most depressing ending I have ever seen in pretty much anything it was all meaningless in the end, these are the endings I hate the most but it was not dragged out so there is that to it which makes me happy.

I guess you could call this series despair porn but I already knew that after watching episode one and the MC being a literal devil in the seinen genre never goes well, good thing it does not try and drag itself off after the biggest of tragedies. The fact I binged instead of doing work for college means I enjoyed it.

around episode 9 I did become numb to the situation, Humans looked like idiots killing themselves due to paranoia. The whole group of friends dying in episode 9 was horrible as shit but after watching this episode I am kind of glad they did not stick around as it did turn into a even worse shit show since the whole planet died.

I wish Akira death from his perspective was dragged out a bit. This last episode felt like what could have been a season two but they probably decided to go straight to the end.

Seinen is not a genre and Devilman is shonen(which isn't a genre either).

 
Jan 8, 2018 4:30 PM

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E96825 said:
Cyborg_Dragon said:
Wow that is probs the most depressing ending I have ever seen in pretty much anything it was all meaningless in the end, these are the endings I hate the most but it was not dragged out so there is that to it which makes me happy.

I guess you could call this series despair porn but I already knew that after watching episode one and the MC being a literal devil in the seinen genre never goes well, good thing it does not try and drag itself off after the biggest of tragedies. The fact I binged instead of doing work for college means I enjoyed it.

around episode 9 I did become numb to the situation, Humans looked like idiots killing themselves due to paranoia. The whole group of friends dying in episode 9 was horrible as shit but after watching this episode I am kind of glad they did not stick around as it did turn into a even worse shit show since the whole planet died.

I wish Akira death from his perspective was dragged out a bit. This last episode felt like what could have been a season two but they probably decided to go straight to the end.

Seinen is not a genre and Devilman is shonen(which isn't a genre either).



LOL true I did not think this was a shonen, I had a bunch of annoying people tell me recently that shonens are for kids and don't have intense shit like this series had.
 
Jan 8, 2018 4:35 PM

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E96825 said:
Cyborg_Dragon said:
Wow that is probs the most depressing ending I have ever seen in pretty much anything it was all meaningless in the end, these are the endings I hate the most but it was not dragged out so there is that to it which makes me happy.

I guess you could call this series despair porn but I already knew that after watching episode one and the MC being a literal devil in the seinen genre never goes well, good thing it does not try and drag itself off after the biggest of tragedies. The fact I binged instead of doing work for college means I enjoyed it.

around episode 9 I did become numb to the situation, Humans looked like idiots killing themselves due to paranoia. The whole group of friends dying in episode 9 was horrible as shit but after watching this episode I am kind of glad they did not stick around as it did turn into a even worse shit show since the whole planet died.

I wish Akira death from his perspective was dragged out a bit. This last episode felt like what could have been a season two but they probably decided to go straight to the end.

Seinen is not a genre and Devilman is shonen(which isn't a genre either).



um


no. just no. Seinen is aimed at an older demographic than shounen. And devilman certainly isn't shounen.



And as a reader of devil man I expected the ending. Still hit like a truck. I like the changes, felt fresh and familiar. Although the show might have benefited from being 12 episodes rather than 10. That way the ending could have been built up a bit more.


come, you sweet hour of death
 
Jan 8, 2018 5:27 PM

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Devilman was published in Kodansha's Weekly Shōnen Magazine. Go Nagai loved to push his editors and published to make the darkest work possible.
 
Jan 8, 2018 7:09 PM

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E96825 said:
Honestly Crybaby managed to be decent despite Masaki Yuasa and that was simply because he still got enough from the original story not to make it terrible, I liked some of his other shows but he really missed it here with Devilman ranging from the art to his script. I wonder if it was netflix that forced him with the whole gay stuff with the runners


dude your glasses are broken lemao
 
Jan 8, 2018 9:44 PM

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Ends in the birth of a second Moon, that's pretty interesting.
 
Jan 8, 2018 10:03 PM

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RediceRyan said:
Ends in the birth of a second Moon, that's pretty interesting.

Satan slashed the moon in half, the dual moons were formed from those halves.
 
Jan 8, 2018 11:57 PM

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Nothing- said:
E96825 said:

Seinen is not a genre and Devilman is shonen(which isn't a genre either).



um


no. just no. Seinen is aimed at an older demographic than shounen. And devilman certainly isn't shounen.



And as a reader of devil man I expected the ending. Still hit like a truck. I like the changes, felt fresh and familiar. Although the show might have benefited from being 12 episodes rather than 10. That way the ending could have been built up a bit more.
it was in a shounen magazine(clearly different times in the 70's)
Sup...
 
Jan 9, 2018 2:53 AM

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4/10
The original OVAs were better
 
Jan 9, 2018 4:20 AM

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Such a weird anime - cryptic and depressing. Anyway, the ending was unsatisfying - why did God wipe out half of the demons, then take a long break and then wipe out the rest? That didn't make any sense. Oh well, I guess the anime needed an everyone-dies-in-the-end ending, so that's why they did it.
your waifu is shit
 
Jan 9, 2018 4:47 AM
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SzJ said:
Such a weird anime - cryptic and depressing. Anyway, the ending was unsatisfying - why did God wipe out half of the demons, then take a long break and then wipe out the rest? That didn't make any sense. Oh well, I guess the anime needed an everyone-dies-in-the-end ending, so that's why they did it.

Because of the humans and Devilman, God just wipe a little part because there's no more humans there's, in the end all Devilmans and humans are dead, just demons are left so God decide to act
 
Jan 9, 2018 5:53 AM

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This episode was totally on a different level!
Did I just heard Takahashi Rie voiced the demon cat as well!?
So wait, no salvation for humans? and Satan destiny/fate is to win? that's it? any more continuation?
10/5!
8/10.
 
Jan 9, 2018 7:56 AM
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Well shit..
This show had a really fucked up ending. I've not read Go Nagai works so seeing this type of ending really blindsided me. I really expected Akira to prevail , but i was so wrong.
Ryou was definitely the MVP though , his ascension to King of the demons was cool and his fight with akira was super cool. That ending though , the world was destroyed only to be revived somehow. That last scene with ryou and akira was really touching but really wierd at the same time.
This show was a fun experience to watch
10/10
 
Jan 9, 2018 1:29 PM

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Well, I really liked the soundtrack but that was the only thing that really stood out. I didn't like a lot of the story changes or the context of the fights changed. The only thing I thought was done better was Akira and Ryo's relationship in terms of them feeling like friends and some of the animation was nice. At the same time, it looked horrendous at other times.

Not sure if I liked Miki's family's death more or not yet. It felt slightly more tragic, but I also never got the sense of complete hopelessness of the entire situation either.

It lacked a lot of the horror and tension of the two OVA's as well and it never peaked as high for me as those two. I don't really count Amon of Apocalypse as one. The rapping was also insufferable. It was okay, I guess. I might warm up to it later on, but it was really disappointing overall so 5/10. Anyways, it'll all happen again anyways cause God's a dick and wants to punish Satan so see you all then. Unless that doesn't happen in this version, Idk it felt like a chore to finish after a while. Picked up at the end though.

The ending tho
Modified by raaayn, Jan 9, 2018 1:34 PM
 
Jan 9, 2018 1:39 PM
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its like the deaths of the characters in previous episodes does not matter since the earth is destroyed anyway

Ryo is Satan that is actually a fallen angel girl huh
 
Jan 9, 2018 3:40 PM
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I have to say this is one of the best episodes of anime I have ever seen
 
Jan 9, 2018 5:26 PM
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As someone who doesn't have Nostalgia glasses when looking at this show AND read the original manga before watching this. I prefer the anime despite its lack of explanations for some things like Devilmen creation, Akira getting his arm back, Zennon fodder etc. The original manga has an Antiwar message even antiracism but this had none of that and, to me it's pretty obvious why, while we may have suspicions of war and conflicts in certain places, it's nothing affecting the World in massive scale nor are we after any repercussions like Vietnam war (don't know any similar during that time). Thus the message NEEDED to be changed for a different audience, maybe not for the better but still.

I liked Miki's family death more here, more emotional and impactful to me (I like drawn out scenes not instant) plus really couldn't go the torture route cause this is modern Japan, they wouldn't have Wheels with spikes etc and shocking/gagging/whipping would not be as impactful either.

Miki Kuroda was to me a good plot point, in the beginning I was also "what's the point of her" but it payed off in the end, wish she killed some noobs tho. She also functioned to drive the message of Love in a different way (we try to camouflage one feeling with another, hiding our true self etc).

The only plot points that now make no sense to me are why Satan fought God since it was before he knew of demons and Devilman anime existing (original Devilman being a loop makes no sense cause then this Earth would've had two moons to begin with)
 
Jan 9, 2018 6:22 PM

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So, Ryo is literally Satan. It all makes sense now.

Although I didn't care much for the ending, I couldn't help but respect it on some level for being so uncompromising and bleak.

Masaaki Yuasa and Netflix are an unexpectedly good match.

Episode: 4/5
Overall: 7/10
 
Jan 9, 2018 9:14 PM

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isekai said:
its like the deaths of the characters in previous episodes does not matter since the earth is destroyed anyway

Ryo is Satan that is actually a fallen angel girl huh

Satan is hermaphrodite as all Nagai's angels in Devilman, but clearly identifies with feminine (while Michael, Satan's twin, is drawn as far more masculine and buff-er in comparison to Satan's voluptuous and dainty slim frame). Xe can choose the gender of the human's vessel at will though.
 
Jan 9, 2018 10:28 PM
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Thess said:
isekai said:
its like the deaths of the characters in previous episodes does not matter since the earth is destroyed anyway

Ryo is Satan that is actually a fallen angel girl huh

Satan is hermaphrodite as all Nagai's angels in Devilman, but clearly identifies with feminine (while Michael, Satan's twin, is drawn as far more masculine and buff-er in comparison to Satan's voluptuous and dainty slim frame). Xe can choose the gender of the human's vessel at will though.


i see, this is the only Devilman anime i have seen
 
Jan 9, 2018 10:35 PM

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isekai said:
i see, this is the only Devilman anime i have seen


I assumed that. That's why I clarified.
All demons can change their gender and grew any er parts they want, for that matter. Akira and any devilman can too, when they learn to control their transformations. So it's pointless to box them.
 
Jan 9, 2018 11:04 PM
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Thess said:
isekai said:
i see, this is the only Devilman anime i have seen


I assumed that. That's why I clarified.
All demons can change their gender and grew any er parts they want, for that matter. Akira and any devilman can too, when they learn to control their transformations. So it's pointless to box them.


lol that sounds too convenient for the demons (or angels?) and devilmens extreme sexual urges, thanks for that
 
Jan 9, 2018 11:40 PM

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Yo, this show blew me away. I went in this 100% blind just thinking maybe it'll be some ok show I watch on Netflix, not thinking at all that this would be better than anything I watched in 2017.

 
Jan 10, 2018 12:28 AM

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isekai said:
Thess said:


I assumed that. That's why I clarified.
All demons can change their gender and grew any er parts they want, for that matter. Akira and any devilman can too, when they learn to control their transformations. So it's pointless to box them.


lol that sounds too convenient for the demons (or angels?) and devilmens extreme sexual urges, thanks for that


Yes, there are some one-shots in anthologies with random demons just errr growing multiple genitals and fighting/having sex/eating each other in some gorefest way as they merge. So yeah. They can be whatever they want once they control their transformation.

The angels aren't the same species, though.
 
Jan 10, 2018 12:36 AM

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Gexis said:
Yo, this show blew me away. I went in this 100% blind just thinking maybe it'll be some ok show I watch on Netflix, not thinking at all that this would be better than anything I watched in 2017.


Make sure to watch the first two OVA's. Don't watch the third cause it's not canon and it sucks. I think they're way better, but I'm glad you enjoyed it. Hope this series makes more Devilman fans if nothing else.
 
Jan 10, 2018 1:33 AM
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I have mixed feelings about this series, judging from the show by itself and not having read the manga nor watching the original series. On one hand, the emotional scenes were really well done, episode 8 and especially episode 9. On the other hand, it was hard to care about some characters until much later in the series, and I still didn't end up feeling anything for Ryo at the end. I read this interview beforehand, expecting a better written character development for Ryo, but tbh, I personally don't see it. The fight between Satan and Akira had little emotional impact compared to episode 9's content, although the visual/symbolism were were well done.

On the more technical side of things, I did like Yuasa's take on retelling the manga in a modern way. Especially regarding the use of internet and instagram(?). Miki posting her thoughts about Akira online with real-time comments across the screen really built on to the idea of how people can be so cruel and abusive, not only physically, but also with their words. The rappers were great too, as I can see how having delinquents in the story may seem cliche nowadays. The content of their raps were great as well, and each of them had their own flow (as expected of real life rappers). For the story alone, I think it's maybe average to above average, in the way it was executed here. However I don't think Devilman Crybaby is deserving of a low score (below 5), due to the passion behind this production. There were some great imagery and cinematography, and I cannot help but reiterate how well the emotional scenes were handled.

While I don't particularly mind the violence nor the sexual scenes, I do think there could've been even less of that, and instead give the precious time to more character development. Someone said this, and I agree with them, that I don't see how the sexual scenes added much to the series. I understand Yuasa doing things because he was thinking of what Nagai would've done had there been this much freedom, but at the same time, just because you can doesn't mean you should. But again, I don't mind it much, I just don't see the need for so much of it.

It seems like the camp is pretty split, regarding whether people liked the manga or this anime better. I'll definitely read the manga to see for myself, especially after reading Nagai's comment. He seems to be a good person and I feel like I'd like what he had to offer thematically in the manga more than Yuasa's retelling of Devilman, which has more focus on love, but fell short imo.
 
Jan 10, 2018 4:03 AM

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@tingy: I think I know what Yuasa tried to do with Ryo, the problem was that he failed to empathize why Ryo was so important to Akira just to push his Mary Suish version of Miki (that scene with the cops was so cringy) and somehow forget Akira desperately latched to as "last anchor" because he lost Ryo beforehand (in his "betrayal"), not because she taught him anything of value and help him grow as a person. She's more of a symbol to Akira than a real person. As in, he barely knows her in the manga and functions as a hot untainable crush who only starts liking him after his possession (she made fun of him being a wimp and a crybaby before) and flawed morality chain only because he lost Ryo and she's the only one who still believes in him in a way (and she wasn't without crisis of faith, she turned away from him when she heard Ryo's broadcast, screaming when he tried to reach for her - but accepts him after), even if he doesn't want to admit the later. It's obvious when (spoilers for the additions of Shin Devilman and Devilman Lady



Miki in Crybaby is again following some saintly versions of her I dislike. Manga Miki who sets a guy on fire fighting for her life, only notices Akira when he gets hot as any teenage girl would (she even hits on him saying he makes her horny), and threatens the angry mob with a knife telling she's a witch so they better worry. She's brash, imperfect, human and has her heart in the right place without coming out as obnoxious. She's not this spotless angel they are trying to sell you that she has to "pass the baton of love" without any imperfection in a situation of mass hysteria where she lost her family, and this makes her far more human and interesting than perfect flawless waifu persona of the show, even with less screentime. At the same time, he stripped away Ryo of his humanity, which he had, in fact, a lot. You can see Ryo's horror in the manga when he finds out his past is a lie, and his real devotion to fight the demons with Akira to save humanity before Jenny awakes his sealed memories against his will. He also visits Miki's grave in the added scene of Shinn Devilman and shows quiet grief over it.

This polarized the characters and made both of them more unattractive and simplistic. Akira's also changed, he's dumber than ever (he figured out Ryo was Satan in the manga without being told or getting a winged revealed). It was a powerful moment.

Some important plot details of the manga missing in the anime:



Also about the original TV series of Devilman.

Modified by Thess, Jan 10, 2018 4:14 AM
 
Jan 10, 2018 4:14 AM

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Just as epic an ending and fight as I had expected. As a show I'm sure not a lot of people knew was coming this was pretty damn good and I had a fucking fantastic time watching it
“I love heroes, but I don't want to be one. Do you even know what a hero is!? For example, you have some meat. Pirates will feast on the meat, but the hero will distribute it among the people! I want to eat the meat!” - Monkey D. Luffy
 
Jan 10, 2018 10:11 AM
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Thess said:
@tingy: I think I know what Yuasa tried to do with Ryo, the problem was that he failed to empathize why Ryo was so important to Akira just to push his Mary Suish version of Miki (that scene with the cops was so cringy) and somehow forget Akira desperately latched to as "last anchor" because he lost Ryo beforehand (in his "betrayal"), not because she taught him anything of value and help him grow as a person. She's more of a symbol to Akira than a real person. As in, he barely knows her in the manga and functions as a hot untainable crush who only starts liking him after his possession (she made fun of him being a wimp and a crybaby before) and flawed morality chain only because he lost Ryo and she's the only one who still believes in him in a way (and she wasn't without crisis of faith, she turned away from him when she heard Ryo's broadcast, screaming when he tried to reach for her - but accepts him after), even if he doesn't want to admit the later. It's obvious when (spoilers for the additions of Shin Devilman and Devilman Lady



Miki in Crybaby is again following some saintly versions of her I dislike. Manga Miki who sets a guy on fire fighting for her life, only notices Akira when he gets hot as any teenage girl would (she even hits on him saying he makes her horny), and threatens the angry mob with a knife telling she's a witch so they better worry. She's brash, imperfect, human and has her heart in the right place without coming out as obnoxious. She's not this spotless angel they are trying to sell you that she has to "pass the baton of love" without any imperfection in a situation of mass hysteria where she lost her family, and this makes her far more human and interesting than perfect flawless waifu persona of the show, even with less screentime. At the same time, he stripped away Ryo of his humanity, which he had, in fact, a lot. You can see Ryo's horror in the manga when he finds out his past is a lie, and his real devotion to fight the demons with Akira to save humanity before Jenny awakes his sealed memories against his will. He also visits Miki's grave in the added scene of Shinn Devilman and shows quiet grief over it.

This polarized the characters and made both of them more unattractive and simplistic. Akira's also changed, he's dumber than ever (he figured out Ryo was Satan in the manga without being told or getting a winged revealed). It was a powerful moment.

Some important plot details of the manga missing in the anime:



Also about the original TV series of Devilman.



Nice points, I hate some parts of Devilman manga (unnecessary comedy and the completely diff values in Japan at that time) but I agree with Ryo and Miki. I initially thought he'd somehow bang Kuroda since she masturbated to him but wtv, back to Miki, it was kinda weird she didn't seem to care one bit about his sudden change and never expressed lust which you'd expect from such a drastically new appearance. If a chick changed like that and a guy did the same as Miki, he'd be called the worst male character etc.

I think he may have been trying to do that with Ryo, the baton pass failing seems to hint at that, like Akira was trying to get him to back down instead of killing him. Ryo not realizing Love till after the fact was weird since that's the whole point he made Akira a devilman.
 
Jan 10, 2018 10:32 AM

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I get the criticism of the manga, but it's a manga in the 70s and yet handles mature themes and antiwar message than most fiction today.

SovereignSky said:
Nice points, I hate some parts of Devilman manga (unnecessary comedy and the completely diff values in Japan at that time) but I agree with Ryo and Miki. I initially thought he'd somehow bang Kuroda since she masturbated to him but wtv, back to Miki, it was kinda weird she didn't seem to care one bit about his sudden change and never expressed lust which you'd expect from such a drastically new appearance. If a chick changed like that and a guy did the same as Miki, he'd be called the worst male character etc.

I think he may have been trying to do that with Ryo, the baton pass failing seems to hint at that, like Akira was trying to get him to back down instead of killing him. Ryo not realizing Love till after the fact was weird since that's the whole point he made Akira a devilman.


Manga Miki drives a knife in a mob guy's head and throws Molotov Cocktails at people, killing a few of them in self-defense. I've no words about this defanged version of her that must be all about ~Love and Understanding~ to justify Akira's idealized views of her which never matched the reality in the Manga (and this was a GOOD thing), it's just as dehumanizing of the character as erasing all of Ryo's passion, conflict, and empathy.

Miki wasn't thinking about Akira as she died, she was thinking about her decapitated brother and was scared for her life. She was completely turned into a selfless goddess who thought about him to the end, and was running for his sake, which she was not. She was HUMAN.

Yes, well, on Ryo - maybe he didn't really realize his reasons for doing that, but in the manga Satan's aware, so is Zenon who is really pissed off about Satan's love. I mean I think Yuasa was going for the generational contrast. He recently admitted he thinks Ryo, not Akira, is the protagonist (great way to show it!), so everyone was in the story to teach him love. I think he's a commentary for kids insolated, apathetic, unable to internalize their feelings today, and unable to embrace causes etc. That cynicism.

Which is the opposite of what Ryo stood for in the 70s: he was a hothead moved by his emotions, affected by them and grand causes and ideals, which blinded him (Satan too).

The actions were the same, nonetheless, as the result.
Modified by Thess, Jan 10, 2018 10:44 AM
 
Jan 10, 2018 11:40 AM
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Thess said:

Manga Miki drives a knife in a mob guy's head and throws Molotov Cocktails at people, killing a few of them in self-defense. I've no words about this defanged version of her that must be all about ~Love and Understanding~ to justify Akira's idealized views of her which never matched the reality in the Manga (and this was a GOOD thing), it's just as dehumanizing of the character as erasing all of Ryo's passion, conflict, and empathy.


Honestly, the manga version of Miki gets some cool moments but generally was not much of a participant in events. Let's not claim she was given a lot of importance. Her relationship with Akira was also more superficial at the start. I think the anime's version of Miki makes a lot more sense from a thematic perspective, in the context of Yuasa's story, even if I liked the original's fiery attitude.

I disagree with the cynical idea that being nice and peaceful person is unrealistic, because many real human beings have been pacifists and helpful towards others. That contrast wasn't reflected in Miki during the manga, but in this anime it plays a role in conveying the message.

Concerning Ryo, I think Ryo only had a little more explicit "passion, conflict and empathy" in the manga. The difference is more about his level of emotional maturity before realizing he is Satan. Furthermore, this version ends up being more about the emotional limitations that prevented both Ryo and Satan, in Yuasa's perspective, from recognizing why Akira was defending humanity, while the one in the original work makes it more about the rationalization behind Satan's actions at the end.

I'd argue Akira is still the protagonist in Crybaby. Yet Ryo is important and is at the center of the story, because in a way Yuasa has used him as the framing device for the narrative. The director wanted to make this a story about Ryo from the perspective of a different kind of emotional problem, which is quite different compared to the manga's portrayal of Ryo yet still interesting to think about.

 
Jan 10, 2018 12:27 PM

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@Thess Interesting, this change of angle or "vision" between a work and its adaptation seems like an anime case of "Shining".
Thansk for the comparison.
 
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