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Why must some/most female Anime characters always be sexualized/have exaggerated features?

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Dec 28, 2017 2:23 PM

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Manaban said:
from this point forward i will no longer write proper english in this thread because i see no longer see any reason to put forth the effort

Ardania22 said:
Problem is, it isn't isolated to ecchi stuff. It gets into shows that I otherwise really like as well. Like, Steins;Gate has a scene where the main character violently gropes one of his female colleagues, with her crying and begging him to stop, and it's played off as a joke. And that's the friggin 4th highest rated anime on this site. I really wish I could just avoid it and stick to the stuff I like, but I'd have to give up a lot of shows I otherwise enjoy.

because most people aren't as irrational to completely be offput by an entire show because of a scene they may have found one uncomfortable, which is a point going as far as giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you are in a majority of users who found that disgusting

there's also the fact that there is still a such thing as values dissonance between people so therefore what you see as a major problem won't apply to other people in their approach to a product, which is something that applies to @149597871 as well

believe you're correct in your sense of morality as much as you two want, i really hate discussions about these topics so i will probably not pay attention, but i really kind of see it as common sense that one individual's values aren't static amongst the entire collective, and i find it somewhat asinine that you're both questioning why not everybody has the exact same set of values and interpretation of certain scenes or elements to a product as the two of you are having when it comes to these matters of interpretation in application to certain anime
I never said I was completely put off Steins;Gate by that one scene. I LOVE Steins;Gate. But that one scene was unnecessary, ugly, and left a bad taste in my mouth for a few minutes afterward. It didn't NEED that scene, and it pisses me off that it exists. When I talk about how pervasive I feel this problem is, that's a perfect example of why. Steins;Gate is a really good anime that thrives on the strength of its characters, theme, etc, and it STILL thought it needed an unfunny groping scene.
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:27 PM

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Ardania22 said:
Manaban said:
from this point forward i will no longer write proper english in this thread because i see no longer see any reason to put forth the effort


because most people aren't as irrational to completely be offput by an entire show because of a scene they may have found one uncomfortable, which is a point going as far as giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you are in a majority of users who found that disgusting

there's also the fact that there is still a such thing as values dissonance between people so therefore what you see as a major problem won't apply to other people in their approach to a product, which is something that applies to @149597871 as well

believe you're correct in your sense of morality as much as you two want, i really hate discussions about these topics so i will probably not pay attention, but i really kind of see it as common sense that one individual's values aren't static amongst the entire collective, and i find it somewhat asinine that you're both questioning why not everybody has the exact same set of values and interpretation of certain scenes or elements to a product as the two of you are having when it comes to these matters of interpretation in application to certain anime
I never said I was completely put off Steins;Gate by that one scene. I LOVE Steins;Gate. But that one scene was unnecessary, ugly, and left a bad taste in my mouth for a few minutes afterward. It didn't NEED that scene, and it pisses me off that it exists. When I talk about how pervasive I feel this problem is, that's a perfect example of why. Steins;Gate is a really good anime that thrives on the strength of its characters, theme, etc, and it STILL thought it needed an unfunny groping scene.

ok

but you were saying that in spite of that scene it was still the #4 ranked anime on this site currently

Ardania22 said:
Like, Steins;Gate has a scene where the main character violently gropes one of his female colleagues, with her crying and begging him to stop, and it's played off as a joke. And that's the friggin 4th highest rated anime on this site.


so all i did was bring up the potential that people weren't as bothered by that scene as you were because your sense of what you find problematic isn't a set value that applies to every single person

 
Dec 28, 2017 2:30 PM

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A character can be smart, strong, cool or any other feature you may find appealing and at the same time be displayed in a sexy manner. One does not condition the other.
You are free to find it unappealing sure, but dont go on to put all your apples in one basket. There is more to a character then just its sex appeal, so don't take things at face value.



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Dec 28, 2017 2:31 PM

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Manaban said:
Ardania22 said:
Oh, I know story structure issues aren't inherent to ecchi, but neither is fanservice itself. The problem is that anime has a really bad tendency to prioritize fanservice over good storytelling. It's just one possible storytelling flaw among many, but it's this particular flaw I see pop up over and over again in anime.

like what

ttgl, bnha, haruhi and sao didn't, with the amount of screentime distributed to fanservice in those series it'd be basically impossible to argue otherwise and those are the only shows you've brought up in this discussion so far
Um... what do you mean, those shows didn't? There are clear instances in each of those shows where the camera focuses on t&a gratuitously, at the expense of everything else.
TTGL: Everything about Yoko
BNHA: Everything about Mineta
Haruhi: Whenever Haruhi sexually assaults the future girl (I'm terrible with names)
SAO: Random ass shots even when the scene isn't about said ass shots, tentacle groping, attempted rape, etc, etc...
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:31 PM

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SeidouTZ said:
A character can be smart, strong, cool or any other feature you may find appealing and at the same time be displayed in a sexy manner. One does not condition the other.
You are free to find it unappealing sure, but dont go on to put all your apples in one basket. There is more to a character then just its sex appeal, so don't take things at face value.

don't worry, you can say this as much as you want and people will still operate in the surface level extremity of ruined4ever once a character has a panty shot

have tried, have been trying for months now, the only thing i look forward to when i wake up in the morning is that the sweet release of death is a day closer

Ardania22 said:
Manaban said:

like what

ttgl, bnha, haruhi and sao didn't, with the amount of screentime distributed to fanservice in those series it'd be basically impossible to argue otherwise and those are the only shows you've brought up in this discussion so far
Um... what do you mean, those shows didn't? There are clear instances in each of those shows where the camera focuses on t&a gratuitously, at the expense of everything else.
TTGL: Everything about Yoko
BNHA: Everything about Mineta
Haruhi: Whenever Haruhi sexually assaults the future girl (I'm terrible with names)
SAO: Random ass shots even when the scene isn't about said ass shots, tentacle groping, attempted rape, etc, etc...

i'm talking about viewing this on a holistic level taking the entire product into question rather than a few isolated scenes, hence why i was talking about the amount of screentime allotted to these elements as opposed to just "not having these scenes" as you are trying to argue for

how did they impact the narrative on a broader scale is what i am asking you
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:33 PM

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Manaban said:
Ardania22 said:
I never said I was completely put off Steins;Gate by that one scene. I LOVE Steins;Gate. But that one scene was unnecessary, ugly, and left a bad taste in my mouth for a few minutes afterward. It didn't NEED that scene, and it pisses me off that it exists. When I talk about how pervasive I feel this problem is, that's a perfect example of why. Steins;Gate is a really good anime that thrives on the strength of its characters, theme, etc, and it STILL thought it needed an unfunny groping scene.

ok

but you were saying that in spite of that scene it was still the #4 ranked anime on this site currently

Ardania22 said:
Like, Steins;Gate has a scene where the main character violently gropes one of his female colleagues, with her crying and begging him to stop, and it's played off as a joke. And that's the friggin 4th highest rated anime on this site.


so all i did was bring up the potential that people weren't as bothered by that scene as you were because your sense of what you find problematic isn't a set value that applies to every single person

Two things.
1: I wasn't saying it was highly ranked in spite of that scene, I was using it as an example of how pervasive this stuff is. IE, it's not just ecchi stuff, this highly respected, super popular series has some of it too, and it's super distracting because it doesn't fit with anything else in the show.
2: I mean, if the anime community at large isn't bothered by sexual assault being passed off as a joke... that's not a good look for the anime community, you know?
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:37 PM

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Ardania22 said:
Exten37 said:
If a girl isn't going to watch anime because of fanservice then too bad for them. It appeals to most guys and guys are the majority by far. I don't know why you have such an issue with it, are you gay or something?
Not gay, no, and it's kinda weird that you think I must be gay to have a problem with fanservice.
Look, the reason guys are the majority is likely BECAUSE so much anime has fanservice. I know a lot of my female friends stay away from anime because of this. And that sucks, because anime has the potential to tell some of the most interesting, original stories out there, but this bad habit turns off a lot of people who might otherwise really get into it.
It's part of the reason sure, far from being the only reason. Girls simply aren't as interested in anime as guys are. Same thing with videogames. Honestly just get over it, it's a non-issue and it isn't going anywhere.
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:38 PM

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Manaban said:
SeidouTZ said:
A character can be smart, strong, cool or any other feature you may find appealing and at the same time be displayed in a sexy manner. One does not condition the other.
You are free to find it unappealing sure, but dont go on to put all your apples in one basket. There is more to a character then just its sex appeal, so don't take things at face value.

don't worry, you can say this as much as you want and people will still operate in the surface level extremity of ruined4ever once a character has a panty shot

have tried, have been trying for months now, the only thing i look forward to when i wake up in the morning is that the sweet release of death is a day closer

Ardania22 said:
Um... what do you mean, those shows didn't? There are clear instances in each of those shows where the camera focuses on t&a gratuitously, at the expense of everything else.
TTGL: Everything about Yoko
BNHA: Everything about Mineta
Haruhi: Whenever Haruhi sexually assaults the future girl (I'm terrible with names)
SAO: Random ass shots even when the scene isn't about said ass shots, tentacle groping, attempted rape, etc, etc...

i'm talking about viewing this on a holistic level taking the entire product into question rather than a few isolated scenes, hence why i was talking about the amount of screentime allotted to these elements as opposed to just "not having these scenes" as you are trying to argue for

how did they impact the narrative on a broader scale is what i am asking you
Okay, on a whole, the effect of unnecessary fanservice on the show as a whole varies from show to show. Personally, I can overlook it for BNHA, not so much for Haruhi, but that's a different conversation.

I think my overall point is this: none of those shows NEED it, and they'd all be better off without it. BNHA would lose none of its heartwarming spirit by cutting Mineta. TTGL would be better served developing Yoko's character than spending all that time focused on her boobs. Haruhi groping the future girl does nothing to endear me to her character. SAO has many flaws, but at least without all the tentacle grope, etc, it wouldn't feel actively skeevy on top of everything else.
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:40 PM

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Ardania22 said:
AnimeAdamOP said:


There's hardly any fan-service in BnHA, so honestly, idk. There are plenty of good anime that have very little fanservice, probably 400 days worth at the minimum, and you're only at 6.4 days. I'm saying this as a guy that hates ecchi and fan service myself.
Problem is, it isn't isolated to ecchi stuff. It gets into shows that I otherwise really like as well. Like, Steins;Gate has a scene where the main character violently gropes one of his female colleagues, with her crying and begging him to stop, and it's played off as a joke. And that's the friggin 4th highest rated anime on this site. I really wish I could just avoid it and stick to the stuff I like, but I'd have to give up a lot of shows I otherwise enjoy.


IIRC, you're talking about the scene where they change the guy from male to female, and he gropes her boobs because he couldn't believe it worked, right? How else could Okabe possibly play it off when no one around him knows what's going on. If you watch a show and a woman is raped and it shows her boobs are you going to complain? Out of all the examples you could have tried to use, Steins;Gate isn't one of them. Normally I'm on your side in this, as I dropped Occultic;Nine just because of a character's boobs and boob-physics, but honestly idk what to say. It's like people who dropped Shinsekai Yori because 2 guys kissed and it literally never happens again, so it's not like it's a main-stay of a show.
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:45 PM

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Exten37 said:
Ardania22 said:
Not gay, no, and it's kinda weird that you think I must be gay to have a problem with fanservice.
Look, the reason guys are the majority is likely BECAUSE so much anime has fanservice. I know a lot of my female friends stay away from anime because of this. And that sucks, because anime has the potential to tell some of the most interesting, original stories out there, but this bad habit turns off a lot of people who might otherwise really get into it.
It's part of the reason sure, far from being the only reason. Girls simply aren't as interested in anime as guys are. Same thing with videogames. Honestly just get over it, it's a non-issue and it isn't going anywhere.
Actual scientific studies would disagree with you on multiple counts.
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:48 PM

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Ardania22 said:
1: I wasn't saying it was highly ranked in spite of that scene, I was using it as an example of how pervasive this stuff is. IE, it's not just ecchi stuff, this highly respected, super popular series has some of it too, and it's super distracting because it doesn't fit with anything else in the show.

if you feel that way sure, i don't really care if you like it or not and i never have with anybody, at least not for a while now, i'm not a zealous crusader trying to convince people to like fanservice believe it or not

if it got in the way for something, then all power to you, i geniunely do not care in the slightest

but you have to argue this from a perspective of "why does everything have to tie into the main narrative to begin with," because the issue you have been stating in this regard is that it is out of place with the show and is unnecessary, all you did when dekn pressed you on that was say "storytelling structural issues blah blah blah" without really expounding on exactly what constituted it as a storytelling issue in any way. before we can talk about that, we have to establish why it is a structural issue to not have everything tie into the main narrative to begin with.

Ardania22 said:
Oh, I know story structure issues aren't inherent to ecchi, but neither is fanservice itself. The problem is that anime has a really bad tendency to prioritize fanservice over good storytelling. It's just one possible storytelling flaw among many, but it's this particular flaw I see pop up over and over again in anime.


can shows not take breather episodes or tell a joke now and again? are the concepts of elements like subplots predominant in narratives dating at least back to the ancient greek epics of old that foreign to you?

it isn't exclusive to fanservice, there was a subplot in steins;gate involving the fat guy and the future girl with the fat guy actually being the girl's dad

could've still had the main narrative entirely without that element involved and all

"not tying into the main narrative" is not an inherent issue and has never been accepted as one past those who are unfamiliar with storytelling mechanisms to begin with, so your assertion that having elements not explicitly tied to the main narrative is pretty laughable tbh, which is the primary implicit thing you're saying whenever you're treating it as an issue with story strucuring issues in the vein you're talking about here



Ardania22 said:

2: I mean, if the anime community at large isn't bothered by sexual assault being passed off as a joke... that's not a good look for the anime community, you know?

let me put myself into context to you

i own a heart shaped snowglobe with a picture of my waifu inside, i own a daki, i own those figures you can take the clothes off of, i own nudie cards of anime characters you can see when you walk into my bedroom

i absolutely do not care about what is and isn't a good look for the anime community so you are going to have to take a different route in convincing me of something, given that i am not at all interested in winning the award of "most popular fandom of the year" or anything of that nature
Modified by Manaban, Dec 28, 2017 3:03 PM
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:49 PM

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Manaban said:
SeidouTZ said:
A character can be smart, strong, cool or any other feature you may find appealing and at the same time be displayed in a sexy manner. One does not condition the other.
You are free to find it unappealing sure, but dont go on to put all your apples in one basket. There is more to a character then just its sex appeal, so don't take things at face value.

don't worry, you can say this as much as you want and people will still operate in the surface level extremity of ruined4ever once a character has a panty shot

have tried, have been trying for months now, the only thing i look forward to when i wake up in the morning is that the sweet release of death is a day closer

Given the amount of threads constantly being made about this subject i incline to agree, but whatever. No point trying to argue with someone if their view points are that black and white.



✧A Believing Heart Is Your Magic✧
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:53 PM

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Ardania22 said:
_Ako_ said:
Ohh will you look at that, another "fuck ecchi/famservice/isekai/Moe/CGDCG anime that ruins the lives of all people and the community itself and even the industry! I must preach why it is bad so they have to wake up"

Anyway, now I'm wonder why are you watch seires with "sexualizes features", do you not know how to filter your own shit?
Ako, I can filter my shit easily. But the problem is that it's EVERYWHERE. If I filtered out all shows that had exessive, unnecessary fanservice, I would limit myself to about 5% of anime and about 1% of popular, well-received anime. Even shows I really like, like My Hero Academia, struggle with this. The "Just don't watch it" argument doesn't work when it's this prevalent.


There's always video games, critically acclaimed novels, social media or whatever. Also, there's a lot of series around 70s so why don't you watch those? Or series around 80s- 90s
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:57 PM

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Ardania22 said:
BNHA would lose none of its heartwarming spirit by cutting Mineta

i rather liked the part when mineta fought the sleepytime dominatrix lady

his goals might seem childish and silly to some, but yet he's still entirely unwavering in pursuing said goals to the most of his ability and will chase it down to go as far to even put matters at hand aside to focus on the larger goal

found that more in the spirit of the show than a lot of other fights, no matter how goofy it may seem, stick to and try to accomplish your goals

Ardania22 said:
TTGL would be better served developing Yoko's character than spending all that time focused on her boobs

yoko's character had a significant amount of development and was a mainstay of the series, evolving and changing more than most of the cast, starting out as a sniper for their little surface tribe before going into being one of the main leads to working as a teacher before going back to work with team whatever

ttgl is a show that celebrates and revels in its own absurdity so i absolutely do not see why sexualization should be forbidden from the mix of everything else it's so thoroughly embracing

Ardania22 said:
Haruhi groping the future girl does nothing to endear me to her character

i don't have anything to say because i find haruhi to be a completely irredeemable character so convincing you of her positive qualities still existing in spite of that is beyond my understanding

Ardania22 said:
SAO has many flaws, but at least without all the tentacle grope, etc, it wouldn't feel actively skeevy on top of everything else.

people wouldn't consider a show where one guy has a bunch of girls chasing after him intimately to be skeevy?

this is like one of the huge gripes with the harem genre in concept and premise, i don't think that would change much, if not at all, especially since harem setups and ecchi tend to go hand in hand so often a lot of people unfamiliar with the breadth of either genre tend to believe they go hand in hand at an alarming rate as is
Modified by Manaban, Dec 28, 2017 3:04 PM
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:58 PM

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_Ako_ said:
Ardania22 said:
Ako, I can filter my shit easily. But the problem is that it's EVERYWHERE. If I filtered out all shows that had exessive, unnecessary fanservice, I would limit myself to about 5% of anime and about 1% of popular, well-received anime. Even shows I really like, like My Hero Academia, struggle with this. The "Just don't watch it" argument doesn't work when it's this prevalent.


There's always video games, critically acclaimed novels, social media or whatever. Also, there's a lot of series around 70s so why don't you watch those? Or series around 80s- 90s
Because I LIKE modern anime. That's the whole point. Aside from this one frustrating bad habit, I really like watching it. And I wish I could watch it without getting pulled out of the story every time there's an accidental pervert scene and such.
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:59 PM

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Ardania22 said:
Exten37 said:
It's part of the reason sure, far from being the only reason. Girls simply aren't as interested in anime as guys are. Same thing with videogames. Honestly just get over it, it's a non-issue and it isn't going anywhere.
Actual scientific studies would disagree with you on multiple counts.
scientific studies? what are you even talking about? and what's your issue with mineta?
 
Dec 28, 2017 2:59 PM

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Ardania22 said:
_Ako_ said:


There's always video games, critically acclaimed novels, social media or whatever. Also, there's a lot of series around 70s so why don't you watch those? Or series around 80s- 90s
Because I LIKE modern anime. That's the whole point. Aside from this one frustrating bad habit, I really like watching it. And I wish I could watch it without getting pulled out of the story every time there's an accidental pervert scene and such.



> I like modern anime

You can never be ironic as much as that.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:01 PM

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_Ako_ said:
Ardania22 said:
Because I LIKE modern anime. That's the whole point. Aside from this one frustrating bad habit, I really like watching it. And I wish I could watch it without getting pulled out of the story every time there's an accidental pervert scene and such.



> I like modern anime

You can never be ironic as much as that.
I... don't follow your argument here.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:06 PM

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Exten37 said:
Ardania22 said:
Actual scientific studies would disagree with you on multiple counts.
scientific studies? what are you even talking about? and what's your issue with mineta?
Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. That said, studies have shown that:
1) Girls ARE interested in gaming, and they're getting more interested now that more games have female/diverse leads. The same would almost certainly be true of anime if it went that route.
But more importantly:
2)Media doesn't exist in a vacuum, and prevailing trends in media CAN actually influence beliefs and values, if not actual behavior. So morally questionable trends in media can, in fact, have a negative influence over people who watch that media. Calling it a non-issue is, thus, incorrect.

EDIT: I dislike Mineta because he gets away with so much shit and never learns from it. Sure, he's "punished" in the sense that he gets beat up a lot, but he keeps doing this uncomfortable shit that would be grounds for being arrested in real life, and we're supposed to just accept it as a character quirk.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:06 PM

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Exten37 said:
Ardania22 said:
Actual scientific studies would disagree with you on multiple counts.
scientific studies? what are you even talking about? and what's your issue with mineta?


Well, if we go to polling data and who attends con, Anime is actually more 50/50 than Video Games that is for sure. And when it comes to cosplayers, there are more women than men. And it gets further if you go "who brings 3 or more cosplays to a single con" because we all know only ladies pretty much will change their costume 6 times. XD

Women seem to enjoy the concept of fandom more than men. Which is why you find them more often on websites like Tumblr, Fanfiction.net, and Deviantart. You also find more women in any space which is more about manga than anime. And you find more women in any website more dedicated to their interests like aarinfantasy.Women are more likely than men to attend 5 or more cons in a year. Women are also more likely to be in an anime club.

As far as manga readers go, more women then men.

I don't think this is offensive to say but, women tend to be really into one fandom more than others. Their obsession is over very specific series.

I think men are catered to more simply because they are easier to please without alienating any women who MIGHT be watching. When you consider most women on this website have in their favorites: Neon Genesis Evangelion, Free, Black Butler, Yuri on Ice, Kids on the Slope, and the Yuri I see most often highly scored on a woman's list is Oniisama e or Revolutionary Girl Utena.... yeah we are a hard to please bunch. We like gay and the kind of gay shows men don't like as much or will deny the existence of the gay to enjoy.

I mean, do you think anime is ready for another bisexual male protagonist in a shonen setting?


But I will say this, I went to Portland Retro Gaming expo. I often felt like the only woman there if it wasn't for staff. But there were a few others. All, like myself, were cosplaying at some point that weekend. Portland Retro has very few cosplayers. Will also point that as a consideration. And women prefer smaller cons to bigger cons. I have noticed, before going to a larger con, women are asking about harassment policies. Ones which do not have good enough rules, there are more men than women.

So, yeah, more men than women are on THIS website. But if you go to any space where women are a little more safe to express how they really feel numbers will be either equal or more female dominant.
Modified by Energetic-Nova, Dec 28, 2017 3:17 PM
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:07 PM

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Ardania22 said:
Exten37 said:
scientific studies? what are you even talking about? and what's your issue with mineta?
Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. That said, studies have shown that:
1) Girls ARE interested in gaming, and they're getting more interested now that more games have female/diverse leads. The same would almost certainly be true of anime if it went that route.
But more importantly:
2)Media doesn't exist in a vacuum, and prevailing trends in media CAN actually influence beliefs and values, if not actual behavior. So morally questionable trends in media can, in fact, have a negative influence over people who watch that media. Calling it a non-issue is, thus, incorrect.

all you have to do is link the statistics of the study in question

this has been a recurring theme with you throughout this thread, saying something is true and then not backing it up in any way ._.

Ardania22 said:
EDIT: I dislike Mineta because he gets away with so much shit and never learns from it. Sure, he's "punished" in the sense that he gets beat up a lot, but he keeps doing this uncomfortable shit that would be grounds for being arrested in real life, and we're supposed to just accept it as a character quirk.


we're talking about your claim that he added nothing to the show's spirit and nothing would be lost, i discussed a part i think would've been lost without him in the show, you respond by editing in something into a different post that has nothing to do with the topic of "what he added to the show" and is just expressing your distaste for him on a subjective level

come on man
Modified by Manaban, Dec 28, 2017 3:12 PM
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:09 PM

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Manaban said:
Ardania22 said:
Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. That said, studies have shown that:
1) Girls ARE interested in gaming, and they're getting more interested now that more games have female/diverse leads. The same would almost certainly be true of anime if it went that route.
But more importantly:
2)Media doesn't exist in a vacuum, and prevailing trends in media CAN actually influence beliefs and values, if not actual behavior. So morally questionable trends in media can, in fact, have a negative influence over people who watch that media. Calling it a non-issue is, thus, incorrect.

all you have to do is link the statistics of the study in question

this has been a recurring theme with you throughout this thread, saying something is true and then not backing it up in any way ._.
I'm not gonna do your research for you.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:13 PM

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Ardania22 said:
Manaban said:

all you have to do is link the statistics of the study in question

this has been a recurring theme with you throughout this thread, saying something is true and then not backing it up in any way ._.
I'm not gonna do your research for you.

you are claiming that there is a study proving your claims true

i ask you for a link or something to this study you've brought up multiple times by now

you say that you're not going to do my research for me just because i'm asking you to provide evidence to substantiate your claims

this is not how discourse works
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:18 PM

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Ardania22 said:
_Ako_ said:



> I like modern anime

You can never be ironic as much as that.
I... don't follow your argument here.


The argument is that older anime didn't do the things you don't like as much. XD
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:21 PM

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Ardania22 said:
_Ako_ said:



> I like modern anime

You can never be ironic as much as that.
I... don't follow your argument here.


Answer: https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1694820&show=150#msg53511447


Just because most users exaggerate modern anime as a black hole full of loli-bait series, fanservice and isekai series...

Ohh well, I can pretty sure feel how you strongly love modern anime. I haven't caught up to Hajimete no Gal because my laptop isn't working, ao when I do, I'll fully enjoy it!


@Energetic-Nova

I duno but I honestly thought OP was being sarcastic when he mentioned about the "I love modern anime"
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:23 PM

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Ardania22 said:
Exten37 said:
scientific studies? what are you even talking about? and what's your issue with mineta?
Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. That said, studies have shown that:
1) Girls ARE interested in gaming, and they're getting more interested now that more games have female/diverse leads. The same would almost certainly be true of anime if it went that route.
But more importantly:
2)Media doesn't exist in a vacuum, and prevailing trends in media CAN actually influence beliefs and values, if not actual behavior. So morally questionable trends in media can, in fact, have a negative influence over people who watch that media. Calling it a non-issue is, thus, incorrect.

EDIT: I dislike Mineta because he gets away with so much shit and never learns from it. Sure, he's "punished" in the sense that he gets beat up a lot, but he keeps doing this uncomfortable shit that would be grounds for being arrested in real life, and we're supposed to just accept it as a character quirk.
You think fanservice is an issue, you think it makes a show worse, but that is just your opinion. Don't take your opinions as fact. Also you sound like a sjw honestly, which might explain your tendency of caring about stupid shit.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:24 PM
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What do we have he-



I dunno if there is any point anymore, I pretty much think I saw this arguments and this answers a lot more times than I wish I had, it's like being stuck in a loop, it's like the endless eight of anime discussion. Just fucking kill me, wake me up, save me, and all that.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:27 PM

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Exten37 said:
Ardania22 said:
Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. That said, studies have shown that:
1) Girls ARE interested in gaming, and they're getting more interested now that more games have female/diverse leads. The same would almost certainly be true of anime if it went that route.
But more importantly:
2)Media doesn't exist in a vacuum, and prevailing trends in media CAN actually influence beliefs and values, if not actual behavior. So morally questionable trends in media can, in fact, have a negative influence over people who watch that media. Calling it a non-issue is, thus, incorrect.

EDIT: I dislike Mineta because he gets away with so much shit and never learns from it. Sure, he's "punished" in the sense that he gets beat up a lot, but he keeps doing this uncomfortable shit that would be grounds for being arrested in real life, and we're supposed to just accept it as a character quirk.
You think fanservice is an issue, you think it makes a show worse, but that is just your opinion. Don't take your opinions as fact. Also you sound like a sjw honestly, which might explain your tendency of caring about stupid shit.


I have seen a lot of guys on this website not be a fan of excessive fanservice either. They tend to just stick to older shows... More because the fanservice was more casual and had better female characters.

Some people like to talk and get to know each other before sex. Other people can jump right in the sack with no regrets.
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:27 PM

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Darek said:
I dunno if there is any point anymore, I pretty much think I saw this arguments and this answers a lot more times than I wish I had, it's like being stuck in a loop, it's like the endless eight of anime discussion. Just fucking kill me, wake me up, save me, and all that.

it's awful, yeah

arguing in ecchi threads has always been just making the same arguments to different people, no matter how many times you reiterate something and no matter how many times people fail to counter it, people will express the exact same thing the next day

insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, so i feel like i qualify to be locked in an asylum at this point

 
Dec 28, 2017 3:29 PM

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Darek said:
What do we have he-



I dunno if there is any point anymore, I pretty much think I saw this arguments and this answers a lot more times than I wish I had, it's like being stuck in a loop, it's like the endless eight of anime discussion. Just fucking kill me, wake me up, save me, and all that.


Yeah, I have been just feeling that people haven't bothered even once to look at anime before 2006...

There is so much anime but yeah lets just focus on only the anime that play late at night for lonely Otaku.
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:29 PM

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YayaChibi said:
Ardania22 said:

I... don't follow your argument here.

The argument here is that if you can't enjoy modern anime because of the fanservice, then how can you determine that you like it lol.
Soriki said:
Why the fuck do people respond to shit posts like this
1+ To depression Every time I look at which posts got popular I'm god damn disappointed on you people, why the fuck do you make shit like this popular? I don't care at this point since it's already popular as shit, but whoever even responds at the start... Please don't, these are garbage posts and threads, and they spawn fucking cancer in the form of replies

I think the cancer replies are what make it. You start a shit discussion, you get shitty replies lol. It's a painful chain lol.
Mods should instantly lock shit posts like these after OP has gotten ONE good response... Max, a few responses, but not fucking 100+ like every time I see one
You block meme posts in general discussion/spam but you let this shit through mods? Fuck the rules of this garbage site

The mods really can't lock anything I guess until they have OBVIOUS proof that it's a shitpost/bait. Cause their are sensitive kids on here who actually DO start threads like this, get angry at the users just fucking with them, which then leads to some bans along with the thread being locked so you can't blame a kid who's parent can't keep their life in check enough for them to realize how butthurt they get online lol, but as you said, fuck the rules here lol.
Yes, I know they can't, they follow their gay "rules" and then do it, if it's according to the rules then you can commit the holocaust wow wee

I can't count the amount of times I've been banned for the most meaningless shit lmao
And their ban system is the most retarded shit I've ever seen
You know how usually in other places you'd get a warning or a few and THEN you'd get banned and notified that you were given a chance and you didn't abide by the rules after the 3 warnings or whatever? MAL Is fucking weird at this, MAL literally just goes like "Hey you did x bullshit this is a warning bla bla bla"
And then you get banned... Wtf? The warnings are pretty much useless, they don't even tell you that you're going to get banned or when
And then after you are banned, you have to ask in an IIRC chat and pray to bajeezus that there's at least one mod/admin there that will respond to you
Last time nobody responded to me and I messaged so many god damn mods lmao, usually one responds and guides you to another person who knows/the person who banned you
I even asked one time what's the deal with the retarded useless "warnings", and I don't remember if it was an admin/mod or not but.. Literally told me they're basically a "courtesy thing" before they ban you, it's fucking gay
It's so retarded how it literally blocks your entire IP from using the ENTIRE site, instead of just muting you in the forums/not letting you use them for X amount of time, you literally just get blocked from using the WHOLE site, so you'd better have a VPN, cause if you wanna use the site at all while banned without a VPN you're fucked
Modified by Soriki, Dec 28, 2017 3:36 PM
Haaaaii! Soriki Desu! <3!
(ノ≧∀≦)ノ(〜^∇^)〜┌|゚з゚|┘└|゚ε゚|┐

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My preferred song that screams "I WANT TO KILL MYSELF :)!"
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:31 PM

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Exten37 said:
Ardania22 said:
Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration. That said, studies have shown that:
1) Girls ARE interested in gaming, and they're getting more interested now that more games have female/diverse leads. The same would almost certainly be true of anime if it went that route.
But more importantly:
2)Media doesn't exist in a vacuum, and prevailing trends in media CAN actually influence beliefs and values, if not actual behavior. So morally questionable trends in media can, in fact, have a negative influence over people who watch that media. Calling it a non-issue is, thus, incorrect.

EDIT: I dislike Mineta because he gets away with so much shit and never learns from it. Sure, he's "punished" in the sense that he gets beat up a lot, but he keeps doing this uncomfortable shit that would be grounds for being arrested in real life, and we're supposed to just accept it as a character quirk.
You think fanservice is an issue, you think it makes a show worse, but that is just your opinion. Don't take your opinions as fact. Also you sound like a sjw honestly, which might explain your tendency of caring about stupid shit.
Oh joy, we're using the term "SJW" like it actually has any meaning and isn't just a tool invented by bullies to excuse their bullying.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:33 PM

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Ardania22 said:
Exten37 said:
You think fanservice is an issue, you think it makes a show worse, but that is just your opinion. Don't take your opinions as fact. Also you sound like a sjw honestly, which might explain your tendency of caring about stupid shit.
Oh joy, we're using the term "SJW" like it actually has any meaning and isn't just a tool invented by bullies to excuse their bullying.


To be fair... I have felt attacked by the "keep it clean" police myself. Been straight up accused of not being a woman in some circles.
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:34 PM

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YayaChibi said:
Ardania22 said:

I... don't follow your argument here.

The argument here is that if you can't enjoy modern anime because of the fanservice, then how can you determine that you like it lol.
Well, there's this concept called "nuance" that I'm quite fond of. I can enjoy modern anime for the things it does right (beautiful animation, inventive stories, unusual ideas and explorations of said ideas, etc) while still being put off by the things it does wrong (fanservice)
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:36 PM

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Ardania22 said:
YayaChibi said:

The argument here is that if you can't enjoy modern anime because of the fanservice, then how can you determine that you like it lol.
Well, there's this concept called "nuance" that I'm quite fond of. I can enjoy modern anime for the things it does right (beautiful animation, inventive stories, unusual ideas and explorations of said ideas, etc) while still being put off by the things it does wrong (fanservice)

i have expressed my disagreement with practically all of your arguments in this thread so far about how fanservice is wrong, and you did not really give a response to any of them

if you're going to keep claiming that can you at least try to defend your stance
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:36 PM

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Energetic-Nova said:
Ardania22 said:
Oh joy, we're using the term "SJW" like it actually has any meaning and isn't just a tool invented by bullies to excuse their bullying.


To be fair... I have felt attacked by the "keep it clean" police myself. Been straight up accused of not being a woman in some circles.
Eesh, sorry to hear that. But I find that such people are a vast minority, while people tend to use "SJW" as an attack against anyone who is even slightly critical of any kind of representation, no matter how justified it may be.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:37 PM

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Manaban said:
Ardania22 said:
Well, there's this concept called "nuance" that I'm quite fond of. I can enjoy modern anime for the things it does right (beautiful animation, inventive stories, unusual ideas and explorations of said ideas, etc) while still being put off by the things it does wrong (fanservice)

i have expressed my disagreement with practically all of your arguments in this thread so far about how fanservice is wrong, and you did not really give a response to any of them

if you're going to keep claiming that can you at least try to defend your stance
What arguments haven't I responded to? I feel like I've answered the vast majority of your posts.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:38 PM

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If Death wasn't permanent, I'd kill myself right now after seeing the posts that are currently over 100+ replies on MAL rn...
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1+ To Depression for every bad post I see

My preferred song that screams "I WANT TO KILL MYSELF :)!"
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:39 PM

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YayaChibi said:
Soriki said:
Yes, I know they can't, they follow their gay "rules" and then do it, if it's according to the rules then you can commit the holocaust wow wee
I can't count the amount of times I've been banned for the most meaningless shit lmao

lmao I've been in plenty of shitty 'arguments' here and even had some kid report me for 'profanity' and I've never been banned, but shit everyone else seems to be getting banned for random shit.
It's a website with a message board for anime fans though, so I don't think there is any other better place for a fucked up system with fucked up people lmao lol.
Ardania22 said:
Oh joy, we're using the term "SJW" like it actually has any meaning and isn't just a tool invented by bullies to excuse their bullying.

Grow the fuck up kid. I understand if you may not like the term, cause I don't either, but seriously dude, look for something better to back up your discussion if you have concerns.
"Bullies" EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEND MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I need therapy.


I seriously need some professional help from a psychologist who's not a normie, I really need it.
Haaaaii! Soriki Desu! <3!
(ノ≧∀≦)ノ(〜^∇^)〜┌|゚з゚|┘└|゚ε゚|┐

1+ To Depression for every bad post I see

My preferred song that screams "I WANT TO KILL MYSELF :)!"
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:39 PM

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Ardania22 said:
YayaChibi said:

The argument here is that if you can't enjoy modern anime because of the fanservice, then how can you determine that you like it lol.
Well, there's this concept called "nuance" that I'm quite fond of. I can enjoy modern anime for the things it does right (beautiful animation, inventive stories, unusual ideas and explorations of said ideas, etc) while still being put off by the things it does wrong (fanservice)


If you want something more nuanced, then watch older anime. I don't know why people are so allergic to it. Stuff like Galaxy Express 999 can't get enough complements.

Or watch stuff from:
https://myanimelist.net/anime/genre/43/Josei
Josei genre. These are made for women.

I also suggest the drama and psychological genres as well. Space is also a great genre. Kids tends not to have anything you are talking about either.

Shonen series written by women are honestly some of your best bets. :) Fullmetal Alchemist was written by a woman so was Inuyasha.
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:40 PM

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Ardania22 said:
What arguments haven't I responded to? I feel like I've answered the vast majority of your posts.


here and here

didn't substantiate any of the claims you made either, you just said they were true and told people to go find evidence supporting your own claims themselves
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:41 PM

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Ardania22 said:
Exten37 said:
You think fanservice is an issue, you think it makes a show worse, but that is just your opinion. Don't take your opinions as fact. Also you sound like a sjw honestly, which might explain your tendency of caring about stupid shit.
Oh joy, we're using the term "SJW" like it actually has any meaning and isn't just a tool invented by bullies to excuse their bullying.
just how old are you exactly? just wondering
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:42 PM

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YayaChibi said:
Soriki said:
Yes, I know they can't, they follow their gay "rules" and then do it, if it's according to the rules then you can commit the holocaust wow wee
I can't count the amount of times I've been banned for the most meaningless shit lmao

lmao I've been in plenty of shitty 'arguments' here and even had some kid report me for 'profanity' and I've never been banned, but shit everyone else seems to be getting banned for random shit.
It's a website with a message board for anime fans though, so I don't think there is any other better place for a fucked up system with fucked up people lmao lol.
Ardania22 said:
Oh joy, we're using the term "SJW" like it actually has any meaning and isn't just a tool invented by bullies to excuse their bullying.

Grow the fuck up kid. I understand if you may not like the term, cause I don't either, but seriously dude, look for something better to back up your discussion if you have concerns.
Grow up"? I didn't start calling you names because I didn't agree with your arguments.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:43 PM

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Exten37 said:
Ardania22 said:
Oh joy, we're using the term "SJW" like it actually has any meaning and isn't just a tool invented by bullies to excuse their bullying.
just how old are you exactly? just wondering
Exten37 said:
Ardania22 said:
Oh joy, we're using the term "SJW" like it actually has any meaning and isn't just a tool invented by bullies to excuse their bullying.
just how old are you exactly? just wondering
19. Still a relatively new anime fan, for what it's worth.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:44 PM

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Soriki said:
Why the fuck do people respond to shit posts like this
1+ To depression Every time I look at which posts got popular I'm god damn disappointed on you people, why the fuck do you make shit like this popular? I don't care at this point since it's already popular as shit, but whoever even responds at the start... Please don't, these are garbage posts and threads, and they spawn fucking cancer in the form of replies

Mods should instantly lock shit posts like these after OP has gotten ONE good response... Max, a few responses, but not fucking 100+ like every time I see one
You block meme posts in general discussion/spam but you let this shit through mods? Fuck the rules of this garbage site

It's sad how I've literally developed a new sense that instantly detects trash tier posts by just looking at the titles.... I can already feel the cancer just by looking at it
I must have become a god damn MAL Newtype, ready to pilot the cancer machine


Heh, I tried to abandon this thread, but people kept posting, probably because there's a few unfinished arguments, I mean, I wish I could delete it but I'm not sure if I can?
I'd be lying if I said that I didn't know I'd get this many posts, this was just to vent. And not to mention I think some people are getting to into this...So this'll probably be my last post then (hopefully) I'll poof for good haha.

And honestly, you're the perfect example of unnecessary language and aggressive attitude I mentioned in my first post. If you're so angry at the forums on here why not leave or take a break? Continue and you're just giving yourself an avoidable headache. Just because someone posts something that you don't approve of doesn't allow you to just insult them and/or be a jerk. Was I being rude in my post? No. (I sure hope not though, so in case I offended anyone I'm sorry!) Was I typing in a calm manner? Yes (or mostly haha) So I don't see why you have to react the opposite way. It's completely immature, but I guess I shouldn't expect to see maturity in most people on the internet.

I completely understand your frustration though, seeing the same thread or related etc many times can get annoying, but I do think that you should probably stay away from the forums until you feel better since it's the cause of your anger! +Too much stress isn't good for you, esp getting this mad over a thread! (ono; ) If you don't want to take my advice then so be it! I'm a stranger after all lol!
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:44 PM

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Ardania22 said:
Exten37 said:
just how old are you exactly? just wondering
Exten37 said:
just how old are you exactly? just wondering
19. Still a relatively new anime fan, for what it's worth.
yeah I see that. Which is why you shouldn't be debating this topic.

And maybe talk to me? I donno... you aren't responding to me. Why are you only responding to those who make you mad?
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:45 PM

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Millireena said:
Heh, I tried to abandon this thread, but people kept posting, probably because there's a few unfinished arguments, I mean, I wish I could delete it but I'm not sure if I can?

nah, i think it's like a 10 minute grace period or something, but it's definitely way too late now

maybe if you really want to delete it you can ask a mod but i am not sure if they will do so

Energetic-Nova said:
And maybe talk to me? I donno... you aren't responding to me. Why are you only responding to those who make you mad?

I mean he isn't responding to me much either yet I'm pretty sure I am not in his good graces
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:49 PM

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Manaban said:
Millireena said:
Heh, I tried to abandon this thread, but people kept posting, probably because there's a few unfinished arguments, I mean, I wish I could delete it but I'm not sure if I can?

nah, i think it's like a 10 minute grace period or something, but it's definitely way too late now

maybe if you really want to delete it you can ask a mod but i am not sure if they will do so

Energetic-Nova said:
And maybe talk to me? I donno... you aren't responding to me. Why are you only responding to those who make you mad?

I mean he isn't responding to me much either yet I'm pretty sure I am not in his good graces


Kinda just blindly attacking ne?

I personally can tell you though that anime fandom is fairly even. However, it will depend on where you are as to what your experience will be.

I don't know why other women try to say they are equally into video games when they really aren't.... I mean, it is getting more even with every year. Nintendo games are the ones though that are 50/50 for the most part. So basically the biggest selling franchises of all time, have larger than average female players. (average is 15-30%, Nintendo reaches consistent 40-60% female playerbase)

Sometimes I wonder if Nintendo hate is actually based in some sort of sexism. (like your car being feminine somehow)
The anime community in a nutshell.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:51 PM

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Energetic-Nova said:
Manaban said:

nah, i think it's like a 10 minute grace period or something, but it's definitely way too late now

maybe if you really want to delete it you can ask a mod but i am not sure if they will do so


I mean he isn't responding to me much either yet I'm pretty sure I am not in his good graces


Kinda just blindly attacking ne?

I personally can tell you though that anime fandom is fairly even. However, it will depend on where you are as to what your experience will be.

I don't know why other women try to say they are equally into video games when they really aren't.... I mean, it is getting more even with every year. Nintendo games are the ones though that are 50/50 for the most part. So basically the biggest selling franchises of all time, have larger than average female players. (average is 15-30%, Nintendo reaches consistent 40-60% female playerbase)

Sometimes I wonder if Nintendo hate is actually based in some sort of sexism. (like your car being feminine somehow)

all i did was say that he wasn't responding to me much either

why are you telling me about nintendo hate ._.
 
Dec 28, 2017 3:51 PM
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@Manaban Seeing it over and over again is one thing, the thing that pisses me off is how stupid and unreasobable most of it is. When it comes to the overdone loli threads I can at least understand the concerns of those people, I think they are full of shit but I get their point of view. When it comes to ecchi/fanservice threads tho? I just don't get it. I hear more guys conplaining about it than girls which is funny actually, which does make me think like it is some sort of issue with being over-protective. Either this or simly being conditioned to hate anything that is sexual, of course with the exception of fucking around with anybody, cuz there is nothing probkematic with being pregnant at the age of 16. Anine titties tho? BURN IN HELL

If the OP thinks she is the one that needs to vent then she hadn't seen shit.
 
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