| I am still confused till now, The budget sometimes cost higher than a simple A-AA game development. While game industry doing perfectly fine as long it sales Anime didnt because you watch it instead buying it unless you want a legal copy of digital or DvD/BD. Maybe you can also compare it to Movie industry , but movie industry will almost never flaw due people will have to watch it on screen across the world unless they wait for BD or just wanted to pirate it. Come to think of it i already asked the same questions with multiple people, none of them know how anime industry works, How they gain profit with that cost, How do they maintainance for both publisher(producers) and studio, What does the licensor do in anime industry, What does it benefit for the source material other than boosting sales, Who provide the studio money for the development etc. For game industry i know it works but for anime? I dont know anything at all, i just assume mostly but none of it make any sense. What does publisher(producer) do? Maybe they're the one who provide the budget? Just for putting their name i guess when its airing? Who provide the money for hiring Voice Actor/Actress? According to wiki normally each VA bound to specific studio/agent or whatever called. Do source material bank or rather profit also provide the studio budget for making anime? or it might be some occasional reasons if the author need a boost, but this isnt the exact case isnt it? because i am quite sure the author would spent alot of money for advertisment just it to be animated. On other perspective it doesnt make any sense about the quite "If the source material and BD/DVD sells alot there might be sequel". In my mind thats kind weird, Why? Studio/Producer provide the money for development might be right due > BD/DVD will give them profit and popular shows will gain more attraction. but why some niche tittle that barely people touch during Seasonal anime get more sequel and adaptation than popular one? Dont you think its weird that if the idea of studio and producer would only adapt good stuff for the same of profit but some even try the risky choice by adapting anime that likely had a fans or people who attracted to it? The topic about "Anime Industry is Dying" doesnt exactly right, it might likely about "Anime Industry current;y confused of their own state". Alot of studio that adapt any anime which is great but i dont really care instead Competition that cost million usd (2 million if it wasnt exaggerated) and get pretty much nothing in return for the working studio and developer dying to get their asses feeded by popularity seems just wrong. because the system itself are to blame (i guess?). and then again i am just concerned about the studio (animating 2D isnt easy as it looks and theres no reused asset than a background,ost,and,3D model) and they still need to work within 1 week for each episode, the licensors and producer might not be affected at all due they have multiple industry attached than just anime industry. Voice actor will likely paid ahead face to face (or do they wait the tittle to gain profit) and they are likely to gain the most profit than any working person in industry. Dont bash me too hard, Game industry have their own problem to deal too, its just no one really complain as long they can reuse asset, hire same va, use same engine, develop new tittle repeat and gain profit. People will buy either way especially its localised on multiple platform. Well that doesnt apply to anime industry though. |
| In the end it is just a gamble. They choose whatever anime might boost their sales and unfortunately most of them is shit nowadays. They dont care about the source material anymore. Just sales and not quality. That's why I lost my faith in them. |
"When you made this thread, I cried and screamed" -Swagernator 2017 |
nymi said: In the end it is just a gamble. They choose whatever anime might boost their sales and unfortunately most of them is shit nowadays. They dont care about the source material anymore. Just sales and not quality. That's why I lost my faith in them. They gamble whatever they adapt whether its gonna gain profit or not they dont care? I think its the reason why its exactly dying. Not sure how does it works but putting more efforts into a complete adaptation or sequel might better to gain attraction and fans including respect for people who waiting than gambling for nonsense as long the adaptation have quite popularity. Though the problem of sequel are all the same, The number of people who watch it will decrease compared the previous one. The same applied to game industry well except you can reuse the asset if its a sequel with a brand new story/features including adding more model into it. The number of studio are to blame to begin with especially when they trying so hard to pick and adapt even its went wrong. Recently 2 of my currently reading manga (renai boukun and boku kanojo no bitch) have the same description about what exactly you said. Doesnt care about source material proper advertising on some occasion it might worsened it by throwing crap adaptation that doesnt follow the source material. Same apply to tokyo ghoul i guess, its frickin studio perriot lmao. |
| have you watch Shirobako? and this might help you Here’s How Money Is Actually Made In Anime http://goboiano.com/heres-money-actually-made-anime/ |
isekai said: have you watch Shirobako? and this might help you Here’s How Money Is Actually Made In Anime http://goboiano.com/heres-money-actually-made-anime/ Complex system but seems more like an advertising industry than standing its ownsel due that last quote. "we have to remember that the main goal of Japanese anime is to sell us manga and light novels." Yep alright i lost faith already, although i knew about the adverstisement basically reading the stuff already gave me a bright idea that Anime industry itself is a mistake. Call me stupid but i guess Mizaki was correct about the anime problem. I guess its also the reason why Original tend to be more appreciated than the adaptation version. because it doesnt serve it purpose as an advertising and despite gambling itself for the sake of profit. Also that clarify what does those producers do , they're the one who provide the budget. They wanted their source materials to sell then they make anime for it, same apply to other licensed stuff during animation. They gain profit for sold material boost from anime. The studio however... i guess they had no choice but to deal with the given money from producers .. |
| @Xaelath maybe this can help somewhat too Anime Production – Detailed Guide to How Anime is Made and the Talent Behind it! https://washiblog.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/anime-production-detailed-guide-to-how-anime-is-made-and-the-talent-behind-it/ and ye anime is mostly just advertisement for the source material |
isekai said: @Xaelath maybe this can help somewhat too Anime Production – Detailed Guide to How Anime is Made and the Talent Behind it! https://washiblog.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/anime-production-detailed-guide-to-how-anime-is-made-and-the-talent-behind-it/ and ye anime is mostly just advertisement for the source material Wow thanks but only related to studio managament i guess. but it does help me to think that animating isnt easy as it looks though it might be as complex as gaming industry or how to develop a game. 3000 drawings to 10000 drawings is kinda insane for 1 week lol. While game normally develop within years anime require 1 week for each episode and about 200k USD each episode. I hope in future theres a software and hardware that could help the studio to work faster and ease the studio workload. That way the cost of developing would be lessened and hopefully more complete or original adaptation. |
Xaelath said: I hope in future theres a software and hardware that could help the studio to work faster and ease the studio workload. That way the cost of developing would be lessened and hopefully more complete or original adaptation. the technology is here but fans hated it because its just 3D computer animation lol anime have a small budget thats why its 3D animation is cheaply made most of the time |
isekai said: Xaelath said: I hope in future theres a software and hardware that could help the studio to work faster and ease the studio workload. That way the cost of developing would be lessened and hopefully more complete or original adaptation. the technology is here but fans hated it because its just 3D computer animation lol anime have a small budget thats why its 3D animation is cheaply made most of the time Well that's true. But the 3D version doesn't seems blend well with the traditional version which is why people disliked it. The 3D mainly used for complex model or background character/stuff. Something like rezero dragon when it runs which is laughable or robot stuff from some series. I guess that also the reason why people rate Heavy Object harshly. That doesn't really explain for some niche tittle they adapt. Even though they know it's going to be flaw and they know it does boost abit for source material. And again thank you, i guess i finally found the reason why source material that have finished won't be adapted unless they're remaking it for anniversary or other reasons. Simply put the producer doesn't gain much more for adaptating the tittle other than Selling the license, merchandise and dvd/bd. |
| @Xaelath i checked your list and you have not seen this anime https://myanimelist.net/anime/25835/Shirobako i highly recommend you watch it too because its about anime making and you can learn more about the anime industry and anime studios working process |
isekai said: @Xaelath i checked your list and you have not seen this anime https://myanimelist.net/anime/25835/Shirobako i highly recommend you watch it too because its about anime making and you can learn more about the anime industry and anime studios working process It's on my watch list, Haven't got time to properly watch the anime. I keep picking the niche tittle i mentioned or past anime or playing games. But yeah i guess that would expand my perspective on anime industry. |
| How they gain profit with that cost, have you seen this chart? https://i.imgur.com/4iVouoW.png How do they maintainance for both publisher(producers) and studio, what do you even mean by maintainance? if it's about how profits are split that's a secret behind closed doors What does the licensor do in anime industry, i think licensor is the one who licenses the anime for a certain country What does it benefit for the source material other than boosting sales, sales are the most important.. what can be more meaningful for the source material than sales boost? Who provide the studio money for the development the production committee! i suggest to read this article http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-05 and the someanithing faq http://www.someanithing.com/sales-faqguide |
romagiaOct 19, 2017 4:39 AM
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isekai said: Xaelath said: I hope in future theres a software and hardware that could help the studio to work faster and ease the studio workload. That way the cost of developing would be lessened and hopefully more complete or original adaptation. the technology is here but fans hated it because its just 3D computer animation lol anime have a small budget thats why its 3D animation is cheaply made most of the time And that is the problem, 3d CG might cut the cost but good CG needs more polish. In other words, 3d makes it easier to animate but you also have to animate more (you cannot let a 3d model sit completely still like you can in 2d) |
Bourmegar said: isekai said: the technology is here but fans hated it because its just 3D computer animation lol anime have a small budget thats why its 3D animation is cheaply made most of the time And that is the problem, 3d CG might cut the cost but good CG needs more polish. In other words, 3d makes it easier to animate but you also have to animate more (you cannot let a 3d model sit completely still like you can in 2d) Which mean an updated software and hardware would be needed to animate CG properly. or. There might be a magical 2D software/hardware that could ease the production. Might sounds illogical though. but theres no other way to boost the traditional drawing other than using it manually. Maybe use 3D model then use it to redraw 2D animation? Sounds hassle though and might kill the model drawer if they were asked to fully model whole background. The character might be easier to model (each of them) and could be used as an asset for the sequel but they still need to animate movement and redraw it to 2D which even more hassle than using the traditional method from @isekai explained above |
| What does publisher(producer) do? Maybe they're the one who provide the budget? Just for putting their name i guess when its airing? i dont think publisher is the right word.. but if you mean the production comittee, then yes.. i think they are the one who provide budget; i also read that most anime studios are not part of production comitees this is just assumption, but i think many anime producers pay a fixed ammount to the studio, so the producer takes most of the profit (or loss) Who provide the money for hiring Voice Actor/Actress? According to wiki normally each VA bound to specific studio/agent or whatever called. i think the money guy in the production comitee.. maybe listening to the director idk i'm not really up to snuff with vas Do source material bank or rather profit also provide the studio budget for making anime? or it might be some occasional reasons if the author need a boost, but this isnt the exact case isnt it? because i am quite sure the author would spent alot of money for advertisment just it to be animated. i dont know how much of this is the author's will.. probably not very much, and most authors wouldnt have that much money to spend on their own (except jaden smith xD) intuitively, i think the publisher of the source material is always in the production comitee, making the choice of which work gets anime which they think would bring most profit On other perspective it doesnt make any sense about the quite "If the source material and BD/DVD sells alot there might be sequel". In my mind thats kind weird, Why? Studio/Producer provide the money for development might be right due > BD/DVD will give them profit and popular shows will gain more attraction but why some niche tittle that barely people touch during Seasonal anime get more sequel and adaptation than popular one? bd/dvd isn't the full story; tv ratings are also important a good indicator is the hour they air.. if it's not late night anime than it's probably popular (= good tv ratings) to some extent in japan it's late night anime which most dont aim for tv ratings but dvd sales for the last statement you need to provide examples, but odds are they're actually popular in japan (like kyoukai no rinne) or were meant from the beggining to be 2 "seasons' long usually with 1 season break between AKA split cour Dont you think its weird that if the idea of studio and producer would only adapt good stuff for the same of profit but some even try the risky choice by adapting anime that likely had a fans or people who attracted to it? u wot m8 i dont get what you ask here |
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romagia said: Dont you think its weird that if the idea of studio and producer would only adapt good stuff for the sake of profit, but some even try the risky choice by adapting anime that likely had a fans or people who attracted to it? u wot m8 i dont get what you ask here Means The studio want to gain more profit by advertising source material including making money from the anime. but instead picking up good tittle or a sequel for anime that have alot of fans they tend to adapt weird tittles. "Knowing the risk of adaptation(not profitable and no fans including bad tv rating if they ever read the source material ratings) and also a gamble" Something like Musaigen no Phantom world, the art is frickin beautiful and so does the other aspect. The story? not so much. Why its quite popular? The design and art. thats just it but based on a "standard' and enjoyment some people disliked hence it got like 7 on mal score, i dont really care about the mal score though i must agree the story is kinda dull and boring including the character (which is subjective but they're generic) which is also why most of review looking through at the story,character and enjoyment. but we're kinda blaming on the wrong studio that have alot of money. Maybe theres other studio i could give as an example... |
| @Xaelath Phantom World and KyoAni in general is an unusual case, since the light novel is published by KyoAni themselves, so less legal hassle for production and most profits go directly to them. I think this is the main reason they picked it and not Haruhi sequel. So despite being worst selling KyoAni series since Munto, it's not far from the average of all anime and since they didnt need to share money with the publisher and such, i think they broke even or maybe even some profit {and as a rule of thumb, anime sequels almost always sell less than the original, and also way smaller source material sale increase, this is why you dont see more of them} |
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romagia said: @Xaelath Phantom World and KyoAni in general is an unusual case, since the light novel is published by KyoAni themselves, so less legal hassle for production and most profits go directly to them. I think this is the main reason they picked it and not Haruhi sequel. So despite being worst selling KyoAni series since Munto, it's not far from the average of all anime and since they didnt need to share money with the publisher and such, i think they broke even or maybe even some profit {and as a rule of thumb, anime sequels almost always sell less than the original, and also way smaller source material sale increase, this is why you dont see more of them} I see for the last one i thought it also applies to game industry but despite the risk they were facing it still sells. sometimes specific tittle hyped and came out as a success. Dont you think it also apply to anime? Something like Monogatari series perhaps? Thats the only LN i could think that have a proper(a complete one) despite facing the issue of source material already finished and weird margin of sequel popularity(release date for series and ovas). Also theres some quote i'll pick from page here. Kadokawa known to be picky for anime adaptation, their main purpose of it as usual are a source material boost. I'll pick Index 3 Tittle here which wouldnt happen if Miki didnt step out from Dengeki bunko which is under Kadokawa to Straight Edge company. So thats what i had in mind about seasonal anime and sequels. |
| Only bothered reading the first three posts, but I will say this. OP need to recal that the majority of anime made today is made with the intention of being a massive advertisement for the source material. Anime itself will never be profitable until it starts focusing on its' own profits and not boosting the sales of LN and Manga adaptions. |
"I'd take rampant lesbianism over nuclear armageddon or a supervolcano any day." ~nikiforova |
| @Xaelath Intuitively, games have a better history of sequels outselling the previous title (thinking in particular of Persona). Reasons for that are harder to pinpoint but i think game sequels generate more hype than a new IP (especially compared to anime) Bakemonogatari is literally the best selling TV anime of the 2000s (see: http://www.someanithing.com/?page_id=452 ), so even if Owari sold just a third of Bake, it's still easily in top 10% of all time. Also, by the time Second Season aired, i'm pretty sure the source material was not finished then. Just for the record, Toradora, Sakurada Reset and arguably Durarara are also some of the very few other titles that are complete LN adaptations. |
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InsaneLeader13 said: Only bothered reading the first three posts, but I will say this. OP need to recal that the majority of anime made today is made with the intention of being a massive advertisement for the source material. Anime itself will never be profitable until it starts focusing on its' own profits and not boosting the sales of LN and Manga adaptions. Thats basically saying Anime industry isnt profitable (mostfully) Anime industry is an advertisment as entertainment. I wouldnt deny that though i already said it right after 3 post you didnt read. |
romagia said: @Xaelath Intuitively, games have a better history of sequels outselling the previous title (thinking in particular of Persona). Reasons for that are harder to pinpoint but i think game sequels generate more hype than a new IP (especially compared to anime) Bakemonogatari is literally the best selling TV anime of the 2000s (see: http://www.someanithing.com/?page_id=452 ), so even if Owari sold just a third of Bake, it's still easily in top 10% of all time. Also, by the time Second Season aired, i'm pretty sure the source material was not finished then. Just for the record, Toradora, Sakurada Reset and arguably Durarara are also some of the very few other titles that are complete LN adaptations. I didnt know Durara was a complete adaptations, I should really starting to watch it (thanks). Something like Shinsekai yori is also a complete adaptations. Also Katanagatari,Hitsugi no Chaika and few more. Well yeah i guess its the chances are very low, its good stuff for not keeping my hope high for manga/ln adaptation though luckly you can still read manga or ask ln for spoiler. about the Monogatari i guess the studio that manage it also good on manipulating the budget. You know what i mean about most of tittle that worked by Shaft , "Simple yet Flashy and beautiful art". It is far from KyoAni or ufotable ofc but still they did good adapting it even for one of the most complex anime ever made. |
romagia said: @Xaelath Now that you mention it, Chaika was really forgettable.. Also, Shinsekai Yori is technically not a light novel.. there are a bit more complete anime based on non-light novels like Shiki and NHK Well i guess the success doesnt really depends on the complete adaptation, It'll still rely on the production quality which will cost more than the standard animation. |
| Another series on this topic, including some of how the overseas distribution scene factors in: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-05 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-07 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-09 |
on 
| Big guy gives you some tiny amount of money to your random small studio with 10 people and signs a contract with you to produce a show. Makes your studio work their assess off non-stop for a year, but don't worry it's the dead remains of a failed multimedia project so we do this just because. Still no budget, anime barely looks good but big guy still pushes you to work more. It's ok dude. Finally, you've done it! After an year, you look outside your window, you get your tiny paycheck and hopefully wait for the next project... ... But wait, what you've done is actually really fucking good. Everyone starts praising your work and you blow off the concurrent projects out of the charts, big guy is really happy you got him so much money for little to no investment. You enjoy your well done work, and thank the big guy and everyone involved. Fans are happy too and you become famous, bringing attention and help reviving various unrelated industries in Japan. Fans spread the world and big guy is even happier, and you are happy too as your pure talent and hours of sweaty work really fucking beat everyone's asses and became a role model for so many people. Your work has become a phenomenon across the globe. You decide to make a gift to your fans. You already earned small cash and big guy is happy with their profit, but anyway you still feel the fans deserve more for what you've given to them. You take your own little money big guy gave you from your own pocket and make a bonus short material calling your team together again, purely made for your fans as a big thank you. You give it to them with all your heart for free, so that everyone can enjoy. It really impacts your audience and they appreciate your sincere approach at your own work, it really makes your show even more popular and fans are even more personally closer to you now. They really like it, but you didn't tell big guy about it. Now big guy is mad. But dude, the show is even more popular now, see people don't stop talking about it. > WTF we had a contract, you decided to work on your own and circumvented our rules. Big guy is really disappointed in you: we got our money and we got even more money but we didn't tell you to do that. Fuck the fans, get them thirsty and we can get their money even easier with shitty little sales and events. Money is everything that matters in this business. ... > YOU ARE FIRED thanks for the sales btw xd you saved our dead project and returned our investments ... WTF i helped you, i made this whole thing by myself that brought you millions of cash and you kick me out? > Welcome to Japan motherfucker. ??? Profit. |
AquamirrorOct 19, 2017 11:10 AM
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| "We're going to create a series that features fappable kawaii waifus doing fun things" "It'll fucking sale!" "Preach Heavens for giving us waifus!" "NO... The body pillows will save it!" |
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