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Dolphins have ‘human-like’ societies...but are held back by a lack of opposable thumbs, say scientists

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Oct 18, 2017 4:10 PM
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Whales and dolphins live in human-like societies and share similar brain evolution to primates and man, scientist have concluded.

A new study which looked at 90 species found a link between brain size and social and cultural traits in marine mammals.

It is the first time that scientists have considered whether ‘social brain hypothesis’ applies to whales and dolphins, as well as humans. The theory suggests that intelligence developed as a means of coping with large and complex social groups.

Just like humans, whales and dolphins live in tightly-knit social groups, cooperate with other species, talk to each other and even have regional dialects.

They also engage in cooperative hunting, and pass on their skills to younger members. Some even have signature whistles, which are believed to represent names, so they can call to individuals.

The study showed it was possible to predict the brain size of intelligent marine mammals based on the complexity of their social and cultural structures.

The researchers conclude that, just like humans, whale and dolphin cognition may have arisen to cope with the challenges of social living.

Dr Susanne Shultz, an evolutionary biologist in the University of Manchester’s School of Earth and Environmental Sciences, said: “As humans, our ability to socially interact and cultivate relationships has allowed us to colonise almost every ecosystem and environment on the planet.

“We know whales and dolphins also have exceptionally large and anatomically sophisticated brains and, therefore, have created a similar marine based culture.

“That means the apparent co-evolution of brains, social structure, and behavioural richness of marine mammals provides a unique and striking parallel to the large brains and hyper-sociality of humans and other primates on land.

“Unfortunately they won’t even mimic our great metropolisis and technologies because they didn’t evolve opposable thumbs.”

The study demonstrates that these societal and cultural characteristics are linked with brain size and brain expansion – also known as encephalisation.

Encephalisation, underpins humans’ sophisticated social cognition, including language, joint attention, shared goals, teaching, consensus decision-making, and empathy.

Dr Kieran Fox, a neuroscientist at Stanford University, added: “Cetaceans have many complex social behaviours that are similar to humans and other primates.

“They, however, have different brain structures from us, leading some researchers to argue that whales and dolphins could not achieve higher cognitive and social skills.

“I think our research shows that this is clearly not the case. Instead, a new question emerges: How can very diverse patterns of brain structure in very different species nonetheless give rise to highly similar cognitive and social behaviours?”

Researchers say the findings could help scientists also understand more about how humans have been so successful.

Dr Michael Muthukrishna, Assistant Professor of Economic Psychology at LSE, added: “This research isn’t just about looking at the intelligence of whales and dolphins, it also has important anthropological ramifications as well.

“In order to move toward a more general theory of human behaviour, we need to understand what makes humans so different from other animals.

“And to do this, we need a control group. Compared to primates, cetaceans are a more “alien” control group.”

The research was published in the journal Nature Ecology & Evolution.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/10/16/dolphins-have-human-like-societiesbut-held-back-lack-opposable/

I had already known this for quite a while. It's just nice that they have more to back it up now.

Do you think hunting dolphins should be outlawed? They eat dolphin in Japan.

Areu prepared for our future dolphin overlords?

Will any of you take a dolphin as your waifu/husbando? 🐬
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Oct 18, 2017 4:14 PM
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cool and some scientists say that dolphins are more smarter than humans too
maybe we humans just got a lot of head start in forming cultures and using tools like science
Oct 18, 2017 4:17 PM
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so dolphins are adorable and smart, a winning combination
Oct 18, 2017 4:26 PM
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So dolphins haven't had any technological advances because they don't have thumbs?

I'm no scientist but that seems like a stretch.
Oct 18, 2017 4:28 PM
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spuukiebuugi said:
so dolphins are adorable and smart, a winning combination

Then you would love this adorable and smart sxe boi


mal's raccoon

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Oct 18, 2017 5:07 PM
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spuukiebuugi said:
so dolphins are adorable and smart, a winning combination


Dolphins also try to rape people and in rare cases kill them.


Oct 18, 2017 5:08 PM
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Hoppy said:
spuukiebuugi said:
so dolphins are adorable and smart, a winning combination


Dolphins also try to rape people and in rare cases kill them.


Humans do this too, so both species are guilty.

One thing dolphins certainly got above us - we aren't adorable.

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Oct 18, 2017 5:36 PM
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SpamuraiSensei said:
So dolphins haven't had any technological advances because they don't have thumbs?

I'm no scientist but that seems like a stretch.


Having fingers is pretty important for tool making. I'm not sure thumbs are necessary but they help improve the use of other fingers.

Hoppy said:

Dolphins also try to rape people and in rare cases kill them.

They sometimes save drowning people too though.
Oct 18, 2017 5:39 PM
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SpamuraiSensei said:
So dolphins haven't had any technological advances because they don't have thumbs?

I'm no scientist but that seems like a stretch.


that makes sense though so ye it could be the reason why they are not doing science and technology like humanity
Oct 18, 2017 6:07 PM

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SpamuraiSensei said:
So dolphins haven't had any technological advances because they don't have thumbs?

I'm no scientist but that seems like a stretch.


we can make tools because we can hold it with our thumbs... what important is not thumb it self, but ability to make and use tools...
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on."
Oct 18, 2017 8:49 PM

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SpamuraiSensei said:
So dolphins haven't had any technological advances because they don't have thumbs?

I'm no scientist but that seems like a stretch.
Depending on how you look at it, they actually have had technological advances. Several years ago, scientists noted that one population was grabbing and using sponges to protect their beaks while they dug around for fish hiding in coral and rocks. Evidence suggested this to be a fairly recent development, meaning that an enterprising individual there had developed the dolphin equivalent of gloves. They've also been seen using empty shells as traps.

While these are still far removed from actually building things, it does count as advancement because they're finding new ways to utilize what they have access to, which is actually a major part of technological development.
Oct 19, 2017 12:38 PM

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ErwinJA said:
SpamuraiSensei said:
So dolphins haven't had any technological advances because they don't have thumbs?

I'm no scientist but that seems like a stretch.
Depending on how you look at it, they actually have had technological advances. Several years ago, scientists noted that one population was grabbing and using sponges to protect their beaks while they dug around for fish hiding in coral and rocks. Evidence suggested this to be a fairly recent development, meaning that an enterprising individual there had developed the dolphin equivalent of gloves. They've also been seen using empty shells as traps.

While these are still far removed from actually building things, it does count as advancement because they're finding new ways to utilize what they have access to, which is actually a major part of technological development.


A ton of animals use tools though.
Oct 19, 2017 1:04 PM

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isekai said:
cool and some scientists say that dolphins are more smarter than humans too
maybe we humans just got a lot of head start in forming cultures and using tools like science


"more smarter" Was that supposed to be ironic?





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Oct 19, 2017 1:05 PM

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Zelev said:
isekai said:
cool and some scientists say that dolphins are more smarter than humans too
maybe we humans just got a lot of head start in forming cultures and using tools like science


"more smarter" Was that supposed to be ironic?


no i just heard some scientists claim that
Oct 19, 2017 1:08 PM

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isekai said:
Zelev said:


"more smarter" Was that supposed to be ironic?


no i just heard some scientists claim that


I mean the grammatical structure of your words, not the actual claim.





Three things cannot be long hidden..
...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th.


Oct 19, 2017 1:10 PM

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Zelev said:
isekai said:


no i just heard some scientists claim that


I mean the grammatical structure of your words, not the actual claim.


ah sorry with my poor english skills i do not find that odd or ironic lol
Oct 19, 2017 1:52 PM

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isekai said:
Zelev said:


I mean the grammatical structure of your words, not the actual claim.


ah sorry with my poor english skills i do not find that odd or ironic lol


Oh okay. I thought you did it on purpose. Nevermind then.





Three things cannot be long hidden..
...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th.


Oct 19, 2017 2:25 PM

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Drunk_Samurai said:
ErwinJA said:
Depending on how you look at it, they actually have had technological advances. Several years ago, scientists noted that one population was grabbing and using sponges to protect their beaks while they dug around for fish hiding in coral and rocks. Evidence suggested this to be a fairly recent development, meaning that an enterprising individual there had developed the dolphin equivalent of gloves. They've also been seen using empty shells as traps.

While these are still far removed from actually building things, it does count as advancement because they're finding new ways to utilize what they have access to, which is actually a major part of technological development.


A ton of animals use tools though.


They are limited by dexterity of what they use to build. Do you think you could build things as easily with flippers or paws or a beak and shorter arms and without fingers? Also it's a need based thing. They won't make clothes if they aren't cold for example. They have no need for a wheel. They can't light fires under water.
Oct 19, 2017 7:04 PM

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-Melancholy- said:
Hoppy said:


Dolphins also try to rape people and in rare cases kill them.


Humans do this too, so both species are guilty.


Yes, but humans have developed laws, law enforcement, and criminal justice systems to address these, albeit to varying degrees of effectiveness. Dolphins, not so much.
Oct 19, 2017 7:43 PM

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TheNeedle said:
-Melancholy- said:


Humans do this too, so both species are guilty.


Yes, but humans have developed laws, law enforcement, and criminal justice systems to address these, albeit to varying degrees of effectiveness. Dolphins, not so much.

Dolphins don't get to watch humans usually so they don't know their mating rituals. Maybe we should start showing sex tapes to dolphins.
Oct 19, 2017 7:54 PM

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Knew it this whole time.

AyarhoOct 19, 2017 7:58 PM
Oct 20, 2017 9:25 AM

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Whales and dolphins live in human-like societies and share similar brain evolution to primates and man, scientist have concluded.


I was right that we didn't evolve from apes. Seems like it.

I welcome all those who will enjoy CGDCT, and I'm sure those Dolphins will too.
Oct 20, 2017 10:49 AM

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Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
Oct 20, 2017 12:26 PM

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Lol. This is the kind of silly fantasizing that results from the anthropomorphism of animals.
Giving dolphins opposable thumbs would not get them any closer to human accomplishments. Almost sounds like the researcher is surprised that creatures that can perform more elaborate tasks would generally have larger brain. That is not to say that brain size determines intelligence though.
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