| As in, when people call a specific anime "pretentious", such as Evangelion or Code Geass since those are the anime I hear being called "pretentious" the most. It's not just them; there's a lot of anime I've seen that were called that. Is the word useless? What do you think? |
JoseiQueenOct 15, 2017 2:35 AM
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| Hmm when I think of the word pretentious, I think of something that on the surface seems to be really deep and meaningful, but when you really think about it it's just kind of 'meh'. But I haven't watched those anime, so to be honest I have no idea what people mean when they say those anime are pretentious. |
| pretentious - "trying to appear or sound more important or clever than you are, especially in matters of art and literature". I can see this being used to describe anime that act darker, deeper and better then they actually are, but I personally think people use the word more without knowing what it means. |
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JoseiQueen said: As in, when people call a specific anime "pretentious", such as Evangelion or Code Geass since those are the anime I hear being called "pretentious" the most. It's not just them; there's a lot of anime I've seen that were called that. Is the word useless? What do you think? On Evangelion: If they were talking about the false religious symbolism that was only there to make it look cool, than maybe they would have a point. But in general, they usually just don't like the narrative. Or the characters. Pretentious is using language to make you seem smarter than you are. But the thing with Evangelion is under the paint of false religious symbolism... it actually is deep if you look at it at the psychological perspective. Narrative wise, Death Note has an elitist plot with a pretentious main character. It isn't as deep as it seems and you know whatever, Light is a villain anyway. But there are people who think it is more than it is. I donno. There are only two anime it is compared to, Code Geass and Monster. And yeah they just aren't my cuppa. I think this is where the 2Deep4U meme is trying to hit at. And for me, the anime that I felt the "TooDeep4U" feelings on was Angel's Egg. Honestly... couldn't stay awake. For an anime I actually think is pretentious, The Wind Named Amnesia. |
Energetic-NovaOct 15, 2017 2:26 AM
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
| Its term popular among those who thinks that Lelouch, Hachiman, that siscon from NGNL are ultra smart intellectual masterminds, but they are not. Just edgy. |
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| When it's pretending to be more than it really is. Kinda like how Code Geass pretends to be a smart mindgame but it's plain dumb Rotton-Girl already said it, but Evangelion gets labbed as pretentious because of the abuse of relegious symbolism (even if it's just aesthetic). |
| Any show that tries to be something(usually deep but can be applied to anything) but can't really achieve that. Eg: future diary, code geass in a certain expect. Nge with religious symbolism or bakuman with the love plot. |
| It tend not to use the word because it's I think it's become so overused that it's lost all meaning. Even if I do think a show is "pretentious", I'll try and word it some other way |
| The right word is edgy. I cant see them being pretentious. |
"When you made this thread, I cried and screamed" -Swagernator 2017 |
Aslt said: How can Code Geass be pretentious while it's fucking dumb? xD Because it pretends it's not actually dumb (hur durr look at how smart Lelouch because he won a chess match off-screen). OT: criticizing a story as pretentious is only acceptable if you can actually explain how it's not that well written, just saying it's tryhard deep doesn't mean anything. Swagernator said: Its term popular among those who thinks that Lelouch, Hachiman, that siscon from NGNL are ultra smart intellectual masterminds, but they are not. Just edgy. Like this post here for example. |
| It's a stupid buzzword. Anyone who uses it as their primary argument shouldn't be taken seriously. |
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| Go get a thesaurus folks. Most series even labeled with that are just high concept shows, if you didn't get a satisfying conclusion then probably, I'll speak that Death Note leads down a pretensions hole. But NGE has the layers and the emotion to back it up, I think it's just the centered praise it gets about it being "too deep" that gets these accusations thrown into the pile. |
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| You could always search the meaning for pretentious. I don't know about NGE because it does have that quality, but when an anime is trying something it isn't, then the show is pretentious. |
 πππ«π«π π±π¬π²π π₯ πΆπ¬π², πππ«π±π¦π«' πΆπ¬π² π΄π¦π±π₯ ππ©π© πͺπΆ πͺπ¦π€π₯π± ______________________ |
| If you ever "criticise" anything with only 1 word/phrase, with no further elaboration, it's never going to be valid. |
| I'm not a lolicon, you're just projecting your tendency to lewd 2D characters. If your favourite character is Tsutsukakushi Tsukiko, you are my soul mate. Been a long time since I've been here, I'll continue expressing myself freely and believe everyone should too. My MAL Interview |
SuperRed said: Like this post here for example. Come on, give up on it man, you can't win. |
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Swagernator said: SuperRed said: Like this post here for example. Come on, give up on it man, you can't win. I don't need to win against someone who shitposts by default. |
SuperRed said: I don't need to win against someone who shitposts by default. Right, it's lost fight to begin with. |
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Aslt said: How can Code Geass be pretentious while it's fucking dumb? xD Because people think the MC is a "genius"... same with Light in Death Note. Honestly, I don't think it means it is a bad series. Just has characters that are a turn off for some. |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
Hagorama said: Any show that tries to be something(usually deep but can be applied to anything) but can't really achieve that. Eg: future diary, code geass in a certain expect. What does Future Diary pretends to be that it doesn't deliver? Slaughter by the main heroine is all present. People trying to outwit each other with predictions are also all present. What more did you expect? |
| Well, I think it's important to prove how something is pretentious. Otherwise it's just as stupid as having "the anime is bad" as argument. I would love to discuss and hear your opinion on how Code Geass is pretentious and Lelouch is not smart, but unfortunately I watch it 3 years ago and can't remember much. The only thing I remember is that I loved it back then, and I usually trust my past self. In my opinion, NGE is the pretentious one. It tries to be smart with its characters and mindfucks, but it's not. The ending is just a shitshow that makes absolutely no sense, and people think it's grand because of that. The characters aren't as developed as people make them to be, everyone is kinda shallow. Shinji is kinda interesting, but his psychology isn't as interesting as everyone says. |
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| When a show goes WAY overboard with symbolism I feel it's being very pretentious. I think Revolutionary Girl Utena is the most f*cking pretentious thing I've ever seen with its "LOOK AT ME I'M SO DEEP HERE'S A BUNCH OF RANDOM WEIRD-ASS IMAGERY TO SHOW U HOW DEEP I AM." Lol gtfo, Utena. The ending is just a shitshow that makes absolutely no sense, and people think it's grand because of that. If you mean the last two eps in the TV series, rumor has it they ran out of cash. XD |
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flannan said: What does Future Diary pretends to be that it doesn't deliver? Slaughter by the main heroine is all present. People trying to outwit each other with predictions are also all present. What more did you expect? It tried to be deep but ended up being edgy. The ridiculous random attempt of some character development of the male MC. The " people trying to outwit" thing is done really badly. Trying to give some dimensions to character(the small boy, the girl who was raped, the dog girl) but failed miserably. I would have had no problem with mirai nikki if it hadn't tried to dabble in some "seinin" stuff, if it had just focused on killing and a being a slaughterfest it would have been a lot better. But still that's just my opinion, you could have find it to be really good and that's fine. I found that it bit more than it can chew. |
Hagorama said: flannan said: What does Future Diary pretends to be that it doesn't deliver? Slaughter by the main heroine is all present. People trying to outwit each other with predictions are also all present. What more did you expect? It tried to be deep but ended up being edgy. The ridiculous random attempt of some character development of the male MC. The " people trying to outwit" thing is done really badly. Trying to give some dimensions to character(the small boy, the girl who was raped, the dog girl) but failed miserably. I would have had no problem with mirai nikki if it hadn't tried to dabble in some "seinin" stuff, if it had just focused on killing and a being a slaughterfest it would have been a lot better. But still that's just my opinion, you could have find it to be really good and that's fine. I found that it bit more than it can chew. I did not assume at any point that it is going to be deep. I guess that's the truth behind the "pretentious" label - it all depends on what ridiculous expectations do you pile upon a show. I suggest we don't derail this thread with discussing the actual qualities of Mirai Nikki (but I consider it was done well enough). P.S. it's "seinen", not "seinin". And "seinen" isn't really a description of a show - most CGDCT shows are seinen, just like the grimdark gory dystopias. |
JoseiQueen said: As in, when people call a specific anime "pretentious", such as Evangelion or Code Geass since those are the anime I hear being called "pretentious" the most. It's not just them; there's a lot of anime I've seen that were called that. Is the word useless? What do you think? I always felt code geass is like that kid that get to the answer in a math test without using the formula. it might pretend a bit much, but at the end it ends being amazing beside the excess of ecchi and a couple of conveniences |
| :v |
| The definition is "a way to say you don't like something while appearing to be an arrogant asshole". |
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
| It's always simple when a user do that. One thing to do is ignore it and move on, more bite it more. I always choose the former since the latter will just cause headache to me. I think there's still users that will accept any form of criticism as long as it is within the scope of rationality. Ohh well its validity still depends on how the user sees it anyway. |
| Pretentious to me is just as it's defined. It's not that the show or person think it's smarter that it really is, it's that it's trying to impress you with how smart or important it thinks it is. It's ultimately about being a fucking show-off. The problem I have with using the term with most things others slap it on is that a lot of those thing just feel like genuine, if ambitious, artistic expressions by the creator. Evangelion, for instance, seemed like something that came from a deep, personal place. I never got the sense that it was talking down to me or that it was trying to be smarter than it really was. Hideaki Anno was going through some shit, and that was how he expressed it. Also, Evangelion, whether you like it or not, is important. Just because you don't like it or think it's dumb doesn't change it's cultural influence. Typically, I use the term towards people rather than movies or shows. For instance, I would describe most of the elitist anime fans pretentious. Otherwise, it's a very vague term and doesn't explain what exactly is wrong about this piece of work. There are pieces of media I do find pretentious, for example, Something like Batman v. Superman I would definitely call pretentious because the film, as well as the creators, insist that it's intelligent and deep, but in reality it's an idiotic superhero film. A lot of David Cage's / Quantic Dreams' games, especially Beyond: Two Souls, I also find pretentious for similar reasons. |
| pretending to be something on a superficial level but actually doing a poor job at being that something in any substantial or meaningful way. That's what it means to me and yes it is a valid criticism. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Swagernator said: Its term popular among those who thinks that Lelouch, Hachiman, that siscon from NGNL are ultra smart intellectual masterminds, but they are not. Just edgy. *Reads post Me: Why does he think like that ?? *Sees asuka and Rin in the favorites Me: Everything seems clear now |
  "elles sont bien noires les pensées des nuits blanches"  |
| Also this term died a long time ago , no one uses such a term these days .. it's very rare though but from smh. |
"elles sont bien noires les pensées des nuits blanches" |
| Came here to say this basically, couldn't agree more. Swagernator said: Its term popular among those who thinks that Lelouch, Hachiman, that siscon from NGNL are ultra smart intellectual masterminds, but they are not. Just edgy. |
"Most anime makers are basically autistic" - Hideaki Anno |
| For something that's supposedly overused by critics, I barely ever see it around. Anyway, I think it can be a valid criticism as long as the idea that a work is pretentious is explored and explained with legitimate examples. Just saying something is pretentious on its own has no weight in my eyes. |
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| What Pretentious Ought to Mean: "This work is not as deep as it is pretending to be." What Pretentious Usually Means: "This work is deeper than the shows I like, and I'm using that as an insult against the series because I'm too lazy to find any actual faults in it." I don't think calling a show pretentious is an automatically invalid criticism, but the word is misused and overused. I don't consider it valid unless the person using it explains how, in depth, the work is pretentious. |
| "Bang." -Spike Spiegal "Everything... is connected." -Lain Iwakura "Life is too short to watch bad anime. Long Live the 1st Episode Drop." -InkSpider "Anime fans make me embarrassed to be an anime fan." -InkSpider |
| pretentious is vague and subjective, basicly "doesn't as deep as it make out to be"... it's only valid if you explain it... |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| When people use the word "pretentious" in the anime community, they generally mean that a show presents itself as being deeper or more intellectual than it actually is. Sometimes this criticism is legitimate, but usually it's just an excuse that people use to hide the fact that they didn't understand a show, especially in the case of shows like Evangelion or Lain. |
| as a criticism i think its mostly BS. even if the intelligence and culture it displays are fake or exaggerated, it can still be a great work of art with special meaning for and of itself. |
Close this World .txEn eht nepO you are happy 24/7, that is a lie, that is bullshit and i refuse to have somebody tell me bullshit i wanna have an honest  |
 To me, whether an anime is being "pretentious" or not all depends on the person that is viewing it. Some fall for it, some see through it, and some simply don't find it intriguing enough to care about it. How one sees the pretentiousness may be seen differently by another person, which leads to different opinions of the anime which is why I don't really see it as a valid criticism unless they give their explanation about it. |
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| its one of the buzzwords that haters of anime use, constructive criticism is more welcome than just pointing out or nitpicking every damn flaw of a show |
| In anime, it's basically a "fate of the world/human race importance" plot device. I think it's fine; anime would be pretty boring without such things. It's no more a valid criticism than anything else that qualifies as fiction. |
MortalMelancholyOct 16, 2017 2:15 AM
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
| From Dictionary(dot)com: Pretentious (adjective) 1. characterized by assumption of dignity or importance, especially when exaggerated or undeserved: a pretentious, self-important waiter. 2. making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious. - - - - Yes. This term can be used as a reasonable critique of a show. However, it's very easily conflated with someone's own (often accidental) admission of not understanding the concepts and themes being presented. |
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