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Dec 15, 2018 8:05 PM

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So this might be the wrong place to ask but... Can anyone tell me what a Hunter actually is? Like, I just got done with the show and I honestly don't know if they're supposed to be heroes, or criminals, or whatever.
Why are they highly regarded by society?
Why can people like Hisoka or Illumi become Hunters?
Do they answer to a government, or just do whatever? Are the immune to laws? Do laws even exist in this world?
 
Jan 9, 2019 1:58 AM
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So having re watched the chimera ant arc, I've paid alot more attention then you do the first time, ethics, morals, story and battles in some places telling are fairly good of not excellent in some places. However, the pacing is bad if not horrible, I found my self skipping episodes the first time because nothing of note happened. Characters would spend so much time explaining things that didn't mean anything (chimera ant soldiers getting screen time that don't participate during the palace battle are pure filler in my eyes) only to skip onto something else as trivial. But my biggest gripe has to be the power scaling, the ants go from zero to hero in about 4~10 episodes. Not to mention some unceremonious endings where known characters just die for shock appeal. Ant soldiers are easily able to defeat fully fledged hunters and captains, let alone the royal guard beat every one else because of the discovery of nen. Which is another problem, they obtain nen very easily. They observed and caught a nen user (Pokkle) where he is lobotomised, yet somehow tells the chimera ants (despite the lobotomy) the specifics of nen even though he is not a master nor fully adept in nen. And somehow they discover the rest. They then display powers above and beyond that of any nen user. Many prominent characters Gon, Killua, Kuripika, Kite in the arc were taught by someone that greatly accelerated their progress if not giving them distinct abilities. So you will have to forgive me if I see that as absolute bullshit that they can grow to be such a huge threat so quickly. It felt very rushed, and if the arc has some 60~ episodes to flesh everything out they could have had the time and patience to have the power creep not so outrageous.

It however did tie up in a nice little bow at the end which is very well done. I thoroughly enjoyed Gon paying a heavy price for his 'deus ex machina' growth, where even after the next arc and into the manga he does not regain his nen powers. It made it feel much more realistic rather then many a shounen series I've watched where there is little to no down side when a character gains incredible power so quickly. Overall I enjoyed the arc if not for the beginning making me almost put it down. I'd give it a 6/10.
Modified by Leomark, Jan 9, 2019 4:10 AM
 
Jan 10, 2019 2:10 AM

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Yeah, whether the arc is good or not, the way it was depicted in the anime was horrible and I really hated it.


I used to hate York New city ark too, probably because of the pacing.

The arcs I love are

Hunter Exam
Heaven's Arena
Greed Island


Everything else for me was garbage. I also think the 1999 anime is better and the 2011 version sucks. I watched both and the arcs that I like the most in the 2011 are too rushed and don't have the great impact that they had in the 1999 version. Arcs like York New City suck just as much in the 2011 version as in the 1999 version - it's completely useless and pointless arc that I don't understand how is it connected to the main plot except that small bald woman that looks like fucking goblin talking about what changed her to what she is now. The same was with the Chimera arc, I don't understand what its point is and how does it impact the whole series.

To me it felt like York New and Chimera are random stories that are stitched together with the rest just because it will add a different tone to the story but are completely useless and pointless.

And 2011 sucks. 1999 is the hands down superior version.
 
Jan 10, 2019 2:16 AM
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Not me, but surely there are some people who do not like it. The minority though.
The arc is my favorite of all time.
 
Jan 11, 2019 9:38 AM
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That's one of the best arcs, if not, the best arc in HxH.
 
Jan 12, 2019 2:44 PM
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JizzyHitler said:
its got a fuck ton of problems and the worst writing in the series but it also has some of the highest highs in the series. Its a double edged sword for me where it kind of both makes the series and also hinders it.

GreenSoap said:
I watched it while it was airing, and yeah it was slow-paced as hell, but it wrapped up nicely toward the end imo. It has grown on me a bit since then too.

In terms of story, the Chimera Ant arc a huge setup for the current manga arc, in which Kurapika is a central character ^^
hes not just a central character, hes become the main character. I always felt the story was written like kurapika was the secondary protagonist which is why he was the protagonist of yorknew, but becuase of the constant hiatuses and too much focus on only gon and killua for like 10 years kind of defeated that concept until this newest arc changed the protagonists again. Its weird thinking that gon and killua might be shelved for years like how pika and leerio were
I don't know how you can say that it has the worst writing in the series ,I would love to hear this, now granted I can empathize with people you say that they don't like it but there is difference between not liking something and thinking something is bad.
 
Jan 12, 2019 2:53 PM
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Leomark said:
So having re watched the chimera ant arc, I've paid alot more attention then you do the first time, ethics, morals, story and battles in some places telling are fairly good of not excellent in some places. However, the pacing is bad if not horrible, I found my self skipping episodes the first time because nothing of note happened. Characters would spend so much time explaining things that didn't mean anything (chimera ant soldiers getting screen time that don't participate during the palace battle are pure filler in my eyes) only to skip onto something else as trivial. But my biggest gripe has to be the power scaling, the ants go from zero to hero in about 4~10 episodes. Not to mention some unceremonious endings where known characters just die for shock appeal. Ant soldiers are easily able to defeat fully fledged hunters and captains, let alone the royal guard beat every one else because of the discovery of nen. Which is another problem, they obtain nen very easily. They observed and caught a nen user (Pokkle) where he is lobotomised, yet somehow tells the chimera ants (despite the lobotomy) the specifics of nen even though he is not a master nor fully adept in nen. And somehow they discover the rest. They then display powers above and beyond that of any nen user. Many prominent characters Gon, Killua, Kuripika, Kite in the arc were taught by someone that greatly accelerated their progress if not giving them distinct abilities. So you will have to forgive me if I see that as absolute bullshit that they can grow to be such a huge threat so quickly. It felt very rushed, and if the arc has some 60~ episodes to flesh everything out they could have had the time and patience to have the power creep not so outrageous.

It however did tie up in a nice little bow at the end which is very well done. I thoroughly enjoyed Gon paying a heavy price for his 'deus ex machina' growth, where even after the next arc and into the manga he does not regain his nen powers. It made it feel much more realistic rather then many a shounen series I've watched where there is little to no down side when a character gains incredible power so quickly. Overall I enjoyed the arc if not for the beginning making me almost put it down. I'd give it a 6/10.
I thought the power creep was understandable , I mean it was established from an early point in the show that there are people that have a higher affinity for nen than others and considering the context behind the ant's origin ofcourse they would be born with such powers.
 
Jan 12, 2019 3:01 PM
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LalatinaDarkness said:
Yorknew arc is still the best hxh arc. CA arc only got good in the second half. I remembered the fans who like the arc so much took it way too seriously and that if you disliked it you have shit taste.
yeah they do for me it's the opposite the first half had me on the edge of my seat, the second half was boring.
 
Jan 12, 2019 3:03 PM
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Ishiryoku said:
I didnt enjoy the CA arc either.

The atmosphere was depressing. I was disappointed at how Gon's character developed. From an objective standpoint, great writing. i just rather wouldnt have seen that. Made me kinda extremely hate him.

I didnt care about most of the characters in the arc.

Fights were dragged out af. In general, the pacing became 100x slower than in the arcs before. And the fast pacing had been one of my major + for HxH.

Not enough screentime for Killua. All my other favs (Illumi and Hisoka) were missing too.

I am glad I got through with it. Now, whenever I rewatch HxH, I skip most of the CA episodes. The whole arc was great writing for sure and very smart. Credits to the source material. Just didnt like the anime arc for the reasons I stated.
yeah this arc definitely isn't my favorite but I consider it to be the best written out of all the arcs and possibly in shounen.
 
Jan 12, 2019 3:42 PM
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YuuChanneru said:
Honestly... The Chimera Ant arc ruined the series for me, if not Greed Island. Anything after Yorkshin felt very random and somehow the depth of the story disappeared. Also the end with Ging is one of the worst endings of the series you can have. It was Gon's ambition to meet Ging (which is already a very weak point to drive the story because we know so little about Ging) but turns out he is one of the biggest assholes who enjoys riding on random monsters/birds more than ever talking to his son.

I still feel bad that I invested all that time into the series and it had so little to show for it. I could not buy into Gon's character which is probably why I did not enjoy the series. Also mentioning that I also watched the old series and loved how dark it was compared to the new one.

Still, I understand and respect that especially the Chimera Ant arc was enjoyable for others. I just don't want to hear of it ever again. The endless narration made my ears bleed, the bad characterisation....I will just stop here and say I really dislike it.
I can understand the hate ,but it is factually wrong to say that the chimera ant has bad characterization.
 
Jan 14, 2019 2:57 PM
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Black_Sheep97 said:
YuuChanneru said:


Still, I understand and respect that especially the Chimera Ant arc was enjoyable for others. I just don't want to hear of it ever again. The endless narration made my ears bleed, the bad characterisation....I will just stop here and say I really dislike it.
I can understand the hate ,but it is factually wrong to say that the chimera ant has bad characterization.



Dude, it's kind of really sad to see you reply to forum posts from 300 years ago, one by one, regardless of who is right here or how you feel about the anime or how good or bad sth is.
 
Jan 14, 2019 3:12 PM
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YuuChanneru said:
Black_Sheep97 said:
I can understand the hate ,but it is factually wrong to say that the chimera ant has bad characterization.



Dude, it's kind of really sad to see you reply to forum posts from 300 years ago, one by one, regardless of who is right here or how you feel about the anime or how good or bad sth is.
haha a bit mean but I kinda true ,I just like to have discussions or be apart of them, I just finished re watching the the whole anime and re assessed my opinion of it, so I thought I would share if it's worth anything.
 
Jan 14, 2019 7:19 PM
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EDIT: did you stop watching it fr? You know, people can be different and have the freedom to stop, but seriously?
You gave to FMAB a 5 and you gave a 10 to SAO? πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ€·πŸ»‍♂️
Modified by Cycli, Jan 14, 2019 7:27 PM
 
Jan 14, 2019 7:47 PM

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It was needlessly long and the best character (Hisoka) wasn't in it. Didn't really care about the ant king and his antics, why should I care about him again? oh yeah "character development", well next time give me someone more interest and I might actually give a shit. Overall, it was a mediocre arc. the York New arc was infinitely better and is the best arc in the series, followed by the exam arc.
 
Jan 15, 2019 10:57 AM

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Cycli said:

EDIT: did you stop watching it fr? You know, people can be different and have the freedom to stop, but seriously?
You gave to FMAB a 5 and you gave a 10 to SAO? πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ€·πŸ»‍♂️

But didn't you know? SAO is a masterpiece and everyone who dislikes it is just a troll and hater. And Hunter x Hunter sucks because it doesn't feature enough of his babe Kurapika (he's totally not gay though)!
 
Jan 15, 2019 1:05 PM
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Lol πŸ˜‚, tbh I don’t know if SAO has any manga, but I don’t hate sword art online because of harem, bad character development, horrible antagonists. I don’t like how they setup the story itself, it seems to be rushed and everything goes really fast. SAO Alicization has better setup than the others, I love the idea of alicisation, but stills does not get me so excited to watch it (I’m currently watching it). I don’t hate SAO, I just think they could have done a better job while using this amazing plot. I don’t think this kid watches HxH because Kurapika is not showing up, he stills does not understand how well the narration is distributed on almost every episode on HxH in order to have a better understanding of what is going on. I can accept SAO is a decent anime with beautiful animation, ost, seiyuus and fights. But A1-Pictures did it again, like with Nanatsu no Taizai S2.
 
Jan 19, 2019 1:41 AM

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Episodes 86-99 was a pain to get through. But other than that the arc was great.
 
Jan 19, 2019 3:47 AM

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Kurapika is my fav too :'(

The beginning of the arc was slow, the middle was fantastic, and then it began to fall apart after that. Post-arc episodes were horrendous. I was willing to give HxH possibly a 10/10 sometime during the middle of the Chimera Ant arc, but it dropped steadily after a certain point and everything became bs.

          but you can become stronger
γ§γ‚‚γ€γ‚ˆγγͺγ‚Œγ‚‹γ‚ˆ             
 
Jan 24, 2019 8:01 AM

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i'm a fan of this series since grade school, i don't understand anything and just think killua looking cool ripping human's heart and killed them. and i think you should rewatch it several times to really understand this arc. if you think it is still bullshit i think you should just watch other happy-passionate anime like pokemon or captain tsubasa

 
Jan 25, 2019 4:50 AM
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There are two reasons why I usually go and read in a forum after I have finished watching a show.
1) I'm fascinated and want to know more
2) I'm disappointed and want to understand why

For HxH (2011) it was the ladder.
The CA arc ruined the overall enjoyment of the show for me. Suddenly all the tears and years of training and experience are meaningless as long as your mama just had some third class hunter for breakfast. Rebirth by consuming others and other fancy powers are conveniently introduced without any plausible explanation. That plus the terrible slow pacing (which was a big plus for the rest of the show) and the overuse of narration made me being glad that I have finished the show.

Thanks thou for some more positive aspects of the CA arc, which I have overseen
 
Feb 16, 2019 3:28 PM
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CondemneDio said:
Chimera Ant arc is the best part of the anime.
If you marathon it, it's doesn't feel as slow-paced.

I marathoned it and it still felt ridiculously slow-paced. There were some great parts, but there were also a lot of ridiculously boring and slow episodes I just had to sit through in hopes that it would pick up again. I'm talking about any episode focused on the following characters: Hina, Welfin, Ikalgo, Palm Siberia, and especially Shaiapouf's crying scenes, which felt like the most obnoxiously drawn-out filler I've ever experienced in any anime. It's kind of a shame because of how many good things the arc had going for it: The flashback scenes (think about the ones about Gyro and nuclear weaponry), Neferpitou, the effective buildup to the birth of the royal guards and Meruem, Colt, and the feeling of anticipation right before the invasion.

I agree with OP that the Yorknew City arc was the best arc in the anime. If I ever rewatch the series, I will be skipping many episodes.
 
Feb 16, 2019 6:56 PM
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Chimera arc is the main reason why this anime is a masterpiece. Seriously can‘t understand how anyone can NOT like this arc πŸ˜…
 
Mar 24, 2019 12:20 AM

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Killua39 said:
Chimera arc is the main reason why this anime is a masterpiece. Seriously can‘t understand how anyone can NOT like this arc πŸ˜…


The arc is the main reason why the series was ruined. It had nothing to do with any of the goals of any of the main characters and just popped-up in the middle out of nowhere interrupting the whole storyline the audience had invested its time in during the first 75 episodes.
 
Apr 1, 2019 9:52 PM

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It's overrated IMO.
It became like Dragonball Z with a antagonist (Frieza + Cell = Meruem)
Yorknew is still the best for me.
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Apr 2, 2019 12:36 AM

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Arkab said:
Killua39 said:
Chimera arc is the main reason why this anime is a masterpiece. Seriously can‘t understand how anyone can NOT like this arc πŸ˜…


The arc is the main reason why the series was ruined. It had nothing to do with any of the goals of any of the main characters and just popped-up in the middle out of nowhere interrupting the whole storyline the audience had invested its time in during the first 75 episodes.

Which is precisely the reason why it's so great. The goals of the main characters are such a bore, the show is better any time it detours. It feels more interesting than watching Gon, well, advance straight to the, narratively speaking, rather flat objective he decided to set as a life purpose.

Now, the arc could certainly be better in a number of ways. It could have toned down the narration (though I find the infodumps of the election arc even more annoying), it could have removed clear filler episodes in between and make certain aspects less overemphasized. But it went places other arcs just barely hinted at if anything. And there were a lot of memorable characters and moments in between. Even for the MCs. Gon losing his mind was by far the most fascinating development this series ever set for him, like before this he was a meh character with some promising yet never handled dark side, and Killua witnessing this process is certainly not behind.
Modified by jal90, Apr 2, 2019 12:41 AM
 
Apr 3, 2019 7:24 PM

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I'm at this arc in the show right now, i think it is pretty bad but I think the whole show is bad, but I think the worst thing is the character designs for the "ANTS", its like they had a deviantart contest that was locked to participants 12 or under to design a character and picked like 100 winners, it's so hard to take anything that's going on seriously at all with these ridiculous characters all over the place during this part of the show
 
Apr 5, 2019 12:13 AM

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There's so many meta things to be said about that arc, but even just the parallels alone between Gon-Meurem and Killua-Neferpitou are friggin gorgeous. Masterful character development. If you went into the series for just straight up battle shounen then the series is probably not for you.
 
Apr 5, 2019 9:42 AM

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Literally just finished the arc. So, no, I do not think the entirety of the arc is stupid. Basically every part with Meruem and Komugi is fantastic, and the interactions between Gon and Neferpitou are fantastic, both of those to the point of me kinda really liking the arc. However, besides that, I'd struggle to say the rest of it was more than just good, and given how long the arc drags on for, especially compared to the other arcs, it's hard for me to say I love this arc given how frustratingly long and dragged out it is. It's an arc that has phenomenal highs, but I find they're too far between for me to say it's anywhere near my favorite arc in the series.
You have shit taste, and then I have taste so shit it makes your taste look good
 
Apr 6, 2019 5:53 PM
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I loved the beginning of this arc. The slow evolution of the ants while Kite and his group investigate, was an awesome beginning. The arc just got better from there. It introduced so many good characters, fleshed them out, and made me care about them. It was like an entirely new show. Then toward the end, your guys from the previous show clash with your guys from this new show and it was incredible.
 
Apr 23, 2019 8:59 PM

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it's not.
there are a couple of stretches where it drags a little, but as a whole the arc is genuinely a 10/10 at storytelling. people who bitch about the narrator are the same kind of people that would've bitched about not being able to keep up with it if it didn't have one. you just got pleb-filtered is all.


Oh maybe, maybe it's the clothes we wear
The tasteless bracelets and the dye in our hair
Or maybe, maybe it's our nowhere towns or our nothing places
But we're trash, you and me
We're the litter on the breeze
We're the lovers on the streets
Just trash, me and you
It's in everything we do
It's in everything we do



 
Apr 30, 2019 1:26 PM
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This for sure is an unpopular opinion. For many, the Chimera arc is actually what carried the show or at least what made HxH such a masterpiece.
 
May 1, 2019 9:34 AM
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Thats honestly the point, the characters narrating their every move actually fits with the themes of the chimera ant arc funny enough
 
May 10, 2019 8:41 AM
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Takamura-sama said:
The show's peak was during the Kurapika revenge arc (aka yorknew arc) That arc was easily one of my favorite arcs ever.

The start was really good, but I currently am at the chimera ant arc and I feel like this arc is really stupid and so dragged out.

I just need my babe (I am not gay) Kurapika back <3

Who else thinks that this arc is too dragged out?



I felt the same way as you did, thinking how much i miss Kurapika(I also ain't gay)

I was always asking when will this arc end, but i'm glad I finished it.

It wasn't bad, it was worth watching.
 
May 18, 2019 7:12 PM
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No, I adore this arc. I just finished HxH and I love Chimera Ant SO much it's actually baffling to me that so many people here hate it. There are some slow parts (I really only hated the annoying Cheetah dumbass and the Lion was boring) but everything paid off in the end. It constantly introduced new characters that I didn't care at all about or even hated... but then those characters actually *did* something. Almost every minor character ended up going through some huge development, or playing some crucial role in the narrative, even if it was small. Nothing was wasted. Power dynamics shifted constantly and unpredictably, and believably. It was beautiful.

The story was sometimes slow, but it was always, always moving forward and kept my interest the entire time. Did people in this thread just stop paying attention every time someone new was introduced? I don't understand.

People complain that it's like filler? Each of the characters and each of their stories are great on their own. *That's why it's good.* They aren't filler. They don't NEED to relate to the "main plot" or "main characters" directly. The flesh out the world and make it feel real BECAUSE they don't all revolve their lives around a 12 year old boy.

And what even is the main plot? Do you really think "Gon looks for his dad, Killua tags along, and Hisoka masturbates behind them" is a better plot than everything the Chimera Ant arc has to offer? (And I say this as someone who thinks Hisoka possibly is the best character in the show. This arc is so strong that I don't even miss him.)

Well, character development and realistic motivations are one of my favorite things, so naturally I think it's a masterpiece.

(It really does help if you marathon. And skip the 1-5 minute recaps at the beginning of each episode! It's not hard.)
 
May 28, 2019 9:35 PM

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naotas_forehead said:

And what even is the main plot? Do you really think "Gon looks for his dad, Killua tags along, and Hisoka masturbates behind them" is a better plot than everything the Chimera Ant arc has to offer?


It's not a matter what you consider better plot or worse plot, the fact is that the premise of the show was about a boy wanting to find his dad. That was the goal of the show. That's was the reason of all the actions the main character of the show had been doing so far.

You want to find dad? First pass the hunter exam. Check
You want to travel through the world in order to do so? You need money, go to the Heaven's Arena. Check
Want to know the next clue? Go to York City, where you'll need a game that's gonna be part of an auction. Check
You want to be a step closer to him? Win the game. Check
So what do we do now? We go kick some ants' ass that threaten the world, something that had nothing to do with anything we had been doing so far. Pff.

There was a plot. There was a clear direction. The chimera ant arc, as great as it is, didn't have anything to do with it. It had no relation to the motivations of the main characters, which are the ones that drive the show and upon which you invest your interest and attention. It was a deviation from the main plot.
 
May 31, 2019 7:12 PM
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Arkab said:

It's not a matter what you consider better plot or worse plot, the fact is that the premise of the show was about a boy wanting to find his dad. That was the goal of the show. That's was the reason of all the actions the main character of the show had been doing so far.

You want to find dad? First pass the hunter exam. Check
You want to travel through the world in order to do so? You need money, go to the Heaven's Arena. Check
Want to know the next clue? Go to York City, where you'll need a game that's gonna be part of an auction. Check
You want to be a step closer to him? Win the game. Check
So what do we do now? We go kick some ants' ass that threaten the world, something that had nothing to do with anything we had been doing so far. Pff.

There was a plot. There was a clear direction. The chimera ant arc, as great as it is, didn't have anything to do with it. It had no relation to the motivations of the main characters, which are the ones that drive the show and upon which you invest your interest and attention. It was a deviation from the main plot.


And after Gon wins the game he is taken to Kite, who is an adversary of Ging and was a great father figure to Gon. And he now needs Gon and Killua's help, meeting Kite and teaming up with him to fight the Ants is relevant to the story because Kite has deep ties with Ging.
 
May 31, 2019 8:38 PM

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Zibsidian said:

And after Gon wins the game he is taken to Kite, who is an adversary of Ging and was a great father figure to Gon. And he now needs Gon and Killua's help, meeting Kite and teaming up with him to fight the Ants is relevant to the story because Kite has deep ties with Ging.


Kite never needed their help. He never asked nor begged them for it. Neither did the Hunter association. Nobody here requested the kids to join the killing-ants mission. It was the other way around: it was Gon the one who asked Kite if he could follow him in his investigation, it was his idea since the beginning.
 
May 31, 2019 9:00 PM
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Arkab said:

Kite never needed their help. He never asked nor begged them for it. Neither did the Hunter association. Nobody here requested the kids to join the killing-ants mission. It was the other way around: it was Gon the one who asked Kite if he could follow him in his investigation, it was his idea since the beginning.


Ok, you're right about that but my point still stands. Gon want's to help Kite due to the fact that he was a) a close adversary of Ging and b) a better father figure to Gon then Ging ever was.

Also, where else can they go? What way do they have of finding Ging? Gon said he doesn't want to be told where Ging is and would rather figure out his location himself. So what would you do if you were in Gon's shoes? Would you stay with this man who you've met before and have a personal connection to? Or would you rather wander the world looking for a man you know you have a pretty damn low chance of finding due to the fact that he's highly skilled at hiding his presence.
Modified by Zibsidian, May 31, 2019 9:09 PM
 
Jun 2, 2019 4:03 AM
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yeah Chimera Ant Arc could’ve been a lot less slow but still a good arc but Yorknew City arc is my favorite and it has my favorite moment when it was Kurapika vs Uvogin
 
Jun 10, 2019 1:10 PM
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I have to say I was extremely disappointed with the Chimera Ant arc because of the pacing which I felt was slowed for this arc unnecessarily. I really felt it was being dragged out for no reason. Also, the idea that in one generation of evolution this species went from largely unknown to the strongest species on the planet from eating low level "special" humans (low level hunters) is a little unbelievable to me. The emotional breakdowns of the different characters seemed a little forced as well (and extremely annoying to me). Overall I felt I was robbed of more arcs to enjoy by "last time on Dragonball Z" pacing as I call it.
 
Jan 14, 6:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1
I wonder if you changed your mind about 2 years later, it is dominating at 44% of all arcs in Hunter Hunter and had an amazing ending. Though it might start off slow after you see The Queen Ant die it starts to pick up pace and then truly turns into a masterpiece! Not to mention but you see Gon and Killua get much stronger off of training. Who else can agree?
 
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