I want to be proven wrong on this (Please Read Everything Before Commenting)

smileyboyrocks said:
Gengoroh Tagame's "My Brother's Husband" is worth reading if you're looking for something that elaborates on Japan's attitude (broadly-speaking, of course) towards LGBTQ+ people. Fantastic manga that one, and the mindset that it depicts is probably part of the reason why LGBTQ+ representation isn't quite 'there' in Japanese media. I've heard that Kabi Nagata's "My Lesbian Experience With Loneliness" is similarly solid (not read it yet myself), and Takako Shimura's "Wandering Son" is worth checking out for its exploration of transgender identity.

Beyond that, I can think of only a few decent LGBTQ+ supporting characters from series that aren't primarily yaoi/yuri/bara/etc, but no MCs off the top of my head. You're not wrong that there's a pretty drastic imbalance, I'm afraid. "Mirai Nikki" has Akise Aru, "Gatchaman Crowds" has Rui Ninomiya, Mina from season 2 of "Darker Than Black" is gay and "Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon's" Malga and Margot weren't bad.

KurvosVicky said:

My Brother's Husband contradicts what I ask for in tons of ways.

isekai said:
watch Gurren Lagann its about manliness but there is gay side character there that you may like

Kidemonas said:
Isn't the gay character in Gurren Lagann a typically poor example?

Kidemonas said:
I was writing a long reply, trying to figure out why it is as you describe, but ultimately I felt that my analysis wasn't actually helpful, and at worst it could come off as apologetic.
Certainly, we could find explanations by looking at this psychosocially etc. but I think most people already know that homosexuality is not viewed neutrally in Japanese culture. The question is whether we can find examples of homosexual characters depicted in a reasonable fashion.
I don't know of any proper examples myself. The closest would be Yuri Kuma Arashi which is deeply allegorical and deals with how lesbianism is (poorly) dealt with in anime (and so we get to see those very problems). Quite meta and not what you're looking for (neither shounen nor action), but at least it shows that not literally everyone in the industry has those bizarre and exaggerated ideas about what it means to be homosexual and I hope that things are going in the right direction, although it will probably take some time.

A lot of ridiculous comments in this thread...

KurvosVicky said:
Heterosexual dudes get cool sexy attractive male characters in action-oriented all the times to look up to and want to be like - I get no one to look up to or wanting to be like or be attracted to.

smileyboyrocks said:
I've heard that Kabi Nagata's "My Lesbian Experience With Loneliness" is similarly solid (not read it yet myself)

smileyboyrocks said:


Noted. Merely trying to offer some stuff that might provide insights into why there's an imbalance in representation. 2nd paragraph does offer some stuff that's closer to what you were asking for, I think.

Rei366 said:

The limitation of range offered to those other sexuality characters is a problem. But anyone can look up to/admire anybody no matter of their respective sexes and sexuality.
People's chromosoms or other genetic datas shouldn't be a reason to choose them as models.


@Clebardman "Faggot"? o_o

pgmhecateii said:
I think I gave up after the "I am gay myself" part.

Just kidding. BL should only be allowed in shounen ai or yaoi. Put yaoi and real life together and you get disaster. Not good for ya. Though shounen ai can be interesting sometimes.

KurvosVicky said:

Oh, sorry. I was bombarded with so much shit I struggled with properly paying attention to everything you said.

Mirai Nikki is a decent example I suppose? Except, it's not so much a shounen or action anime? And, from what I can tell, it's made in a really depressing an dark way with him being shown to be gay, right?

And I've heard there is NO sign of Rui being a gay dude in Gatchaman Crowds. But maybe that's not the case?

And Mina from Darker Than Black is a female, therefor not a "gay male character".

And same with Malga and Margot in Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon.

KurvosVicky said:

Oh, sorry. I was bombarded with so much shit I struggled with properly paying attention to everything you said.

Mirai Nikki is a decent example I suppose? Except, it's not so much a shounen or action anime? And, from what I can tell, it's made in a really depressing an dark way with him being shown to be gay, right?

And I've heard there is NO sign of Rui being a gay dude in Gatchaman Crowds. But maybe that's not the case?

And Mina from Darker Than Black is a female, therefor not a "gay male character".

And same with Malga and Margot in Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon.

YayaChibi said:

Plus, characters being gay is a really shitty driving point. Yeh, they can be gay, but being openly gay or bi is fucking dumb for a character, since no IRL person is gonna touch another dudes dick in public, or walk into a room and announce they are gay like 75% of the openly gay characters we get in the media lmao lol

smileyboyrocks said:

Fair enough. I kinda took the initiative (without prompting, I'll confess) to expand to LGBTQ+ in general. Akise remains one of the best examples I can name; it is an action series (a fairly over-the-top dark shounen), and his framing is fairly empowering and emphasises him as an intelligent, composed and altogether pretty badass character.

Guess I could also point you towards "Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans'" Yamagi (who is pretty minor and doesn't do much) and "Cardcaptor Sakura's" Touya and Yukito (though this is a shoujo series, not quite what you were asking for).

Apologies if my comments haven't been quite what you were looking for. My short attention span can impair my comprehension sometimes, and I might have unintentionally omitted certain parts of your initial comment from my reading of it.

KurvosVicky said:

This is not what I was asking for. I'm questioning patterns.

Tomislavr7 said:


I was not disagreeing with you, there are many cases of making fun of or glorifying stuff like this in the media and the former are indeed quite present in shounen action anime (where they usually aren't really even focusing on such themes). With my previous post, I was telling you that you can't have everything you wish for in life, since you said near the end how it's not fair and how you can't relate or whatever.

Cheers.

YayaChibi said:

I stopped giving an actual fuck when you opened the post with fucking romaji lmao
Exactly. Yet I see in mediums, the more gay characters we get, the more their only driving point is their sexuality lmao lol

KurvosVicky said:

Well, congratulations then in responding with pointless shit.

Tomislavr7 said:


I answered the main topic by saying the opposite of what you wanted to hear and then expanded on it by answering to your expansion of it in the initial post of yours. That's not "pointless shit".

Cheers.

KurvosVicky said:

I never said "Why can't anyone create this?". Idiot.

YayaChibi said:

Romaji is really cringey, as it is like writing russian in english characters lmao. Like literally learn fucking Japanese.
Just get the katakana you need, and type マタク - it's not that fucking hard lmao
Romaji should be used in some cases but not all. Like when typing Japanese, Hiragana, Usernames, genres, just not by trickling it in fucking english sentences lmao
Don't even use Japanese in enlgish sentences either lol

It doesn't have to be that way, but sadly it is lmao lol

Aquamirror said:
At least you aren't surrounded by rotorphobes who refuse to accept your gender. Do you know how hard is to find anime with good attack helicopters to self-insert? Your gay privilege is nothing compared to my suffering.

Tomislavr7 said:


I answered the main topic (the pattern does exist in the said form in the said type of anime, and it doesn't matter much), so my posts were on topic.

The rest is an answer to "I get no one to look up to or wanting to be like or be attracted to. And I don't think it's fair I can't even find ONE exception to this rule." This is your divergence and is simply followed up by mine. Otherwise, you shouldn't have included it in your initial post.

Cheers.

Decibelle said:


Edgy. If you're gonna go for it, at least get much wilder. This vanilla copypasta is so boring.

Decibelle said:
It's really unfortunate that there isn't a lot of choices in anime when it comes to stuff made for LGBT people instead of pandering to yaoi/yuri fans, so much so that I even struggle to think of more than a handful. Yuri on Ice, Wandering Son, and Tokyo Godfathers are the only ones I can think of that are like that. Maybe some day it'll be a bit more common, OP.

KurvosVicky said:

None of those three are shounen or action animes. But yeah, one can hope I suppose...

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure still seems to be as close as I can get for now.

Decibelle said:


Yeah the fact that I can't even name any shounen or action animes that fit is what bothers me. JoJo's is close enough! Plus it's good, so that's the important part.

KurvosVicky said:

If you can interpret it that way, then I can interpret your response as: "Do your own faggot shit, we normal people don't want faggot shit in our stuff. Deal with it."

romagia said:
nope, you can't be proven wrong on this

give up and watch the good yaoi like no.6 and Togainu no Chi

Ikaros_42oh said:
well if you want a reason its because japan is rather regressive in that nature
very taboo desu

there was that gay dude in TTGL tho lol

romagia said:
@KurvosVicky i donget your obession with shounen tag =/
and no 6 is tagged action and has kiss >_>

Long_Ng said:
First, i would like to say that there's nothing wrong with being gay, bi, or anything
But regardless, it's the minority so there won't be as much gay, bi MC in shonen.

Second, this is only a problem because it's the minority, so it's really hard to find one, i don't know one myself, but i'm sure there's at least 1 out there. Japan as a country is very open mind toward gender topic, gay marriage was legal all the way back in 1880, compare to the US in 2015 (many old anime already deal with gay problem)

Third, you're talking toward 1 specific genre, which is the Shounen genre, with the target audience being boys. I'm certain that there are characters in shounen that're proper gay, but expecting the MC to be gay is a bit, weird. It's like expecting gundam in a shoujo seri, it's not impossible, but you know.
Plus, outside of Shounen, there're plenty manga/anime with gay/bi MC

Ps: again, there's nothing wrong with being gay/bi, it's just a very neat market, but anime is vast, you will find 1 someday

KurvosVicky said:

You didn't read my post properly. Never said I want the whole anime to be gay, or that it lacks gay inclusion. I even acknowledged that shounen animes have gay inclusion, just questioning the way it's included. I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Jason_Funderberk said:
That gay dude in TTGL makes it hard to watch due to how invasively stereotypical he is. It's probably far worse for people who are actually gay.

Long_Ng said:
First, i would like to say that there's nothing wrong with being gay, bi, or anything
But regardless, it's the minority so there won't be as much gay, bi MC in shonen.

Second, this is only a problem because it's the minority, so it's really hard to find one, i don't know one myself, but i'm sure there's at least 1 out there. Japan as a country is very open mind toward gender topic, gay marriage was legal all the way back in 1880, compare to the US in 2015 (many old anime already deal with gay problem)

Third, you're talking toward 1 specific genre, which is the Shounen genre, with the target audience being boys. I'm certain that there are characters in shounen that're proper gay, but expecting the MC to be gay is a bit, weird. It's like expecting gundam in a shoujo seri, it's not impossible, but you know.
Plus, outside of Shounen, there're plenty manga/anime with gay/bi MC

Ps: again, there's nothing wrong with being gay/bi, it's just a very neat market, but anime is vast, you will find 1 someday

isekai said:
goes to show that anime is going mainstream since discussion like this that are borderline SJW topic are being created now

CreativeNam3 said:


Lol that's my bad its just worded weirdly, but not much would change. It’s all about where the money goes. People can accept a gay action character because it looks cool when they fight and whatnot. Most people don't want gay harems or etc because it’s not cool AND because its gay. If they are gay, then the community wants them to be cool. I’ll say what many won’t say because of being PC. Very few if any gay anime outside Action will pull in sufficient profit because most people don't want gay characters in anime outside their accepted Yaoi and Yuri genres, and of course sometimes Action. People don't like the idea of homosexuality spreading to other genres because they only want flamboyant and cool characters to be gay, and that's mostly limited to the action genre. And if people won’t buy, they won’t make. That’s how the world of Capitalism is. That is why being gay is limited to those certain genres, and it will stay that way until people feel more comfortable with it.

isekai said:
goes to show that anime is going mainstream since discussion like this that are borderline SJW topic are being created now

Jason_Funderberk said:
Dio from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is bisexual, and not in a cruel joke sort of way, and he isn't creepy about it. He sorta leans female, and it isn't revealed he is bisexual until he gets some character development through Part 6 flashbacks. Also, Shinji from Neon Genesis Evangelion is bisexual as well but it doesn't mention it much really, and his living potential love interests in the movie are all female.

KurvosVicky said:

Yeah, I'm actually going to start watching JoJo's. :) And heck, characters like the Pillar Men can easily be interpreted as gay or bi too. The anime doesn't focus on romance and such stuff, so it's all fair game.

But yeah, no, personally not interested in Neon Genesis Evangelion. Still though, I appreciate the suggestions. ^_^

KurvosVicky said:
So, we all know how almost every single shounen and action anime out there has attractive male characters with some level of femininity or androgyny to them, right? Well, ever noticed how none of those types of characters are EVER allowed to be openly gay or bi?

No, if they're openly gay or bi, I've noticed some very strict patterns in shounen and action animes. They must always have very naturally masculine physical traits (especially in their facial structure), they must always act flamboyant and stereotypically gay, and they always take their shot at flirting with or sexually harring straight male characters in creepy fashion; and they are either overly muscular, and/or wears stereotypically gay clothes or crossdresses poorly.

Only exceptions to these rules I know are very very few, and then in that case it's that they are super-duper feminine and brings up a wish for them to be a woman... meaning they are transgender women, and not gay men. So, that doesn't even count.

And once again, I'm talking about SHOUNEN and ACTION animes specifically, since those are the types of animes I'm into. I am gay myself, and I'm generally tired of feeling like us gays and bis are only allowed to be like I described in any action-oriented animes. Heterosexual dudes get cool sexy attractive male characters in action-oriented all the times to look up to and want to be like - I get no one to look up to or wanting to be like or be attracted to. And I don't think it's fair I can't even find ONE exception to this rule.

But like I said in the title, I would really really love to be proven wrong on this.

KurvosVicky said:
And No.6 doesn't even include a gay kiss, so I don't care.

isekai said:
watch Gurren Lagann its about manliness but there is gay side character there that you may like

YayaChibi said:
You do understand by Japanese culture, gays are not in their favor right? Why do you think anime otakus and fujoshi's are looked down upon in Japanese culture? lmao

I don't think anyone wants to see a really faggot character as a protag lmao lol

Plus, characters being gay is a really shitty driving point. Yeh, they can be gay, but being openly gay or bi is fucking dumb for a character, since no IRL person is gonna touch another dudes dick in public, or walk into a room and announce they are gay like 75% of the openly gay characters we get in the media lmao lol Give them a personality, not a fucking sexuality lmao lol
that's why I love Soren, Niles, and Leon/leo in Fire Emblem lmao

lmao this exactly lol Except the JK part lol

Yeh, faggot is a gay
And also a bundle of sticks lol

KurvosVicky said:

................ what in the name of hell are you blabbering about?! I never said I want gay harems, or "uncool gay characters". Fuck, that's the god damn OPPOSITE of what I say. My problem is that gay male characters are NOT allowed to be cool or attractive.

I am baffled by how you can miss my point to such an insanely astronomical degree. I literally questioned why gay male characters can't be allowed to look attractive and not overly masculine in their features like most of the characters tend to be like.

Did you not even read what I said? What, did you just decide to take a wild guess or something?!